Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 05 Dec 2008 23:23

I thought, that it was Islam, that was criticizing all other religions, by calling their followers kafirs. Maybe UN should then ban Islam itself.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 05 Dec 2008 23:24

harbans wrote:WTF is happening here???

Saudi King Abdullah has been urging the United Nations to pass a universal law prescribing imprisonment for criticizing Islam. Some skeptics, including myself (notwithstanding that I twice enjoyed the King's generous hospitality in Riyadh), have suggested he start instead by establishing religious liberty in his own country, where all religious observance other than Wahabi Islam is banned. Two events occurring last week -- the hideous carnage in Mumbai, accompanied by shameful proceedings at the U.N. -- convinced me it is urgent for His Majesty to radically alter his plans.

Since the U.N. actions were less publicized, let me begin there. A key U.N. committee passed by 85-50 the King's "Islamophobia" resolution, criminalizing any "defamation of religion," especially Islam. The General Assembly is expected to soon approve this measure. Governments will be directed to amend their criminal codes accordingly; the resolution will be incorporated into amorphous "customary international law," which liberal Supreme Court justices are relying on, notwithstanding that much of this "law" springs from anti-democratic sources. While "defamation of religion" conveys a sonorous label, Islamic countries consider "Islamophobic" any expression linking Islam to such subjects as 9/11, terror attacks, honor killings, suicide bombings, beheadings, executions by stoning, persecution of homosexuals, fatwas against authors, death threats to cartoonists, etc. The Organization of the Islamic Conference has decreed that even "hostile glances" are Islamophobic.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/12/ ... after.html

Do people realize what the guardians of Islam are thrusting upon us infidels? We are doomed with liberalism. We are finished.

They have hijaked the UN on terrorism and definition of terrorism.
Now they want to use UN as a tool of Islam. And other powers are allowing it.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 05 Dec 2008 23:28

The UN needs to be set on fire and destroyed from the ground up (metaphorically speaking) and replaced with a more legitimate international institution. UN needs to go the way of the "League of Nations" as soon as possible. The dimwitted cretins in India who clamour to give UN a greater role globally need to get a lobotomy...might even increase their thinking capabilities (since their brain clearly is getting in the way of common-sense thinking).

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 05 Dec 2008 23:36

RajeshA wrote:I thought, that it was Islam, that was criticizing all other religions, by calling their followers kafirs. Maybe UN should then ban Islam itself.

That's the reason, we shouldn't get stuck in this swamp by taking our case there.
We need to make it completely irrelevant and then help create a new institution where we get invited to sit at high table..

On other hand, no one is going to invite us with current ball-less wonders at helm

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 05 Dec 2008 23:41

This news makes my blood boil. So it's fair of Islam to call Jews..Pigs, monkeys and stuff. It's fair of Islam to call us infidel, Kafir and be killed if we don't submit. It is fair for us to be terrorized for being infidel. It is fair for Islam to slaughter people in Kafir lands repeatedly and Dar Ul Islam not be attacked in response.

Folks brush up on your Bhagavad Gitas, Granths, Mahaviras and start proselytizing like crazy. This is the battle. And it is religious. It is being fought in so many ways, many are confused. But the battle is nothing but religious.

Round one of the War: Islam 1: Dharma: 0.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 05 Dec 2008 23:46

ramana wrote:Dont demean them as Sarkari IMs. They are Indian Muslim leaders. They are trying to get the control back from the Wahabized IMs.

I dont think you will hear this stuff from Friday sermons. India is not like that.

@Ramana: These IM leaders ask their followers to blindly support the party that promises them the most favors post elections and thus morph their individual votes into a collective voting block. They avoid putting up their own candidates in the general elections but back one of the secular parties in the fray. Coz if they win then they will need to perform or get booted out in the next round. In return for their support, these leaders are assured their political space within the IM population and/or given cushy jobs in acedemia or accorded chairmanships etc in one of the various NGO & Sarkari orgs. These people have become leaders by virtue of their birth and not their past actions i.e. their forefathers were from well to do class of muslims and most of them did not rise through the ranks. One of the reasons most IM and muslim populations worldwide feel the disgust towards existing power structures is because of the glass ceiling they face when they try to rise up within their population. In their case not only do they face the pressures of pushing out the existing leadership but are also denied space by other secular leaders as no secular leader wants to deal with an unknown entity when you have a known servile entity. If you have an existing IM leadership that is servile to the interests of secular power brokers then why would it be wrong to call them sarkari IMs AFAIK the secular power brokers are the ones in power at the moment.

With regards to their fight with the Wahabized IMs, it is nothing more than a power struggle for their own survival. Till a decade ago, only they had the backing of the secular power brokers. Now you got an outside entity (KSA) providing the financial muscle to their opposing group who are trying to create an alternate power structure within the IM population. So it is in their interest to fight this growing strength.

Indian IM under Sufi influence did not need fiery rhetoric for survival but the Wahabi influence has had an effect on the nature of the friday sermons. SIMI is quite popular among young IMs for a reason and there must be someone who told them that they need to fight their SDRE cousins to restore the old glory days. Do you not think that the friday sermons must have played a role in this?

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 05 Dec 2008 23:51

This is exactly depicting the symptoms of sheep..getting ready for the slaughter. Islam is way too evil for people to even comprehensively grasp. Or has liberalism arrived too soon.

December 05, 2008
Has the New York Times got it right about New Yorkers?
Mladen Andrijasevic
A New York Times report on the last day of the Mumbai siege read: "It is not known if the Jewish center was strategically chosen, or if it was an accidental hostage scene."

Is the New York Times trying to insult the intelligence of its readers, assuming they have no knowledge on how to roughly calculate the probability of this being an accidental event, that is, coming by chance upon 50 Jews in a city of 8 million? Or is it that New York Times is correctly assuming that of course the readers know that this was deliberate murder, but who cares for the 6 Jews massacred in a far away country? Who cares if we bend the truth, are they all going to stop reading us, The New York Times, because of this? Of course not.

Has The New York Times got it right? Has the feeling of being in the center of the universe on a late Saturday evening in the West Village or Upper West Side near ZABAR'S, cleaning up the various unwanted sections of the just arrived Sunday edition, has this feeling of being alive made all New Yorkers insensitive and inhuman? How is it possible that millions of New Yorkers read this obvious lie and did not react? Is it ignorance, is it habit, is it stupidity or is it just cowardice? How spineless can you be?

Thirty years ago I used to read PRAVDA in order to understand the depths of lies a communist paper was capable of. The Economist and the BBC World Service served as my link to sanity. Today The Economist, the BBC and the New York Times have become the new PRAVDA. Afraid of the truth, and cognizant that most of their leaders are as afraid to face the truth as they are. The Internet has become the new Samizdat. Just like Soviet dissidents in the seventies, people keep sending each other emails with articles which will never appear in the New York Times. Articles by Ibn Warraq, Bat Ye'or , Robert Spencer, Wafa Sultan. A parallel world.

The New York Times is right. Most of the people don't want to know. Most of the people would not put their foot down and out of principle stop reading the Times. They could not do without the lox and cream cheese and the magazine section on Sunday morning.

There is little doubt that the biological weapons attack or the nuclear device predicted in the next five years in the US will come as a shock. Will the Times wonder if the target was accidental?

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/200 ... ot_it.html

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 05 Dec 2008 23:55

Security, intelligence failed, says Chidambaram

On the other hand, the Netas, playing votebank politics, ignoring national security and falling over each other to pay obeisance to rajmata succeeded, says Chidambaram

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 05 Dec 2008 23:57

Probably wrong thread, but as the subject came up here in connection with the Mumbai Attacks....

Actually this 'No Criticism of Religions' UN Resolution can in fact become a forum of discussion on Islam itself, if there were any, who were so courageous to ask questions.

I think, before this resolution is carried any further, a team of constitutional lawyers from world's democracies, where freedom of thought is still protected and practiced, should ask the representatives of these religions certain questions. To Islamic scholars some questions that must be posed are:

1. Is Islam a religion/faith, a social system, a political system, or a military doctrine?

2. Is Islam critical of other religions, and whether that could make the Muslims criminals?

etc. etc.

Maybe Islamic Faith should be compartmentalized, and the other 3 aspects should be kept out of the provisions of protections from criticism of the Faith, and that too, only if Islam desists from being critical of other faiths and thinking. In which case some mythology, prayer practices and a few symbols would be excluded from criticism and everything else would be put into intellectual shredders as per the explicit assent by the keeper of the two holy mosques.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 05 Dec 2008 23:58

harbans wrote:This news makes my blood boil. So it's fair of Islam to call Jews..Pigs, monkeys and stuff. It's fair of Islam to call us infidel, Kafir and be killed if we don't submit. It is fair for us to be terrorized for being infidel. It is fair for Islam to slaughter people in Kafir lands repeatedly and Dar Ul Islam not be attacked in response.

Folks brush up on your Bhagavad Gitas, Granths, Mahaviras and start proselytizing like crazy. This is the battle. And it is religious. It is being fought in so many ways, many are confused. But the battle is nothing but religious.

Round one of the War: Islam 1: Dharma: 0.

Innocent

: To me the number 786 is nothing more than a 3 digit number like any other. Hypothetically speaking if one went in public wearing a T-shirt that had a message like "786 Sux" printed on it. Now one would not only worry about getting blown up by a RoP believer but also need to worry about being arrested and tried in the Internation Court of Justice for committing an International crime against RoP. Liberal ACLU where art thou? MMS ki beti is an ACLU lawyer in NYC and UN is also located in NYC yet no awaz? why this unnyay?

archan · Post by **archan** » 06 Dec 2008 00:01

PM in his statement today said that "the territory of a neighboring country was used to launch attack on India". Why "a neighboring country"? why can't the PM say that Pakistani territory was used? does any international norm prohibit him from doing this or is it the plain old ... ?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Dec 2008 00:04

So now we know why the Paksi scream "boori nazar' aka "hostile glances"! And that is banned by OIC!
All of them have to be locked up for looking at Asiwarya Rai on pirated DVDs.
----------
Bijushet, The SIMI are all modern educated folks who most likely never attended a mosque. They get their orders/inispiration from Omar Khalidi type of Westernized razakars. There is world of difference between Indian muslims and all these dregs. the oil prioce rise after 1973 has helped KSA fund the Wahabi brand of Islam which is being made into a killigion. It hasnt helped matters that the KSA became the cusodian of the holy sites of Islam for that has cutoof all other branches of Islam from retaining their legitimacy. So money and location have hlped the KSA to spread theri version. before the oil price rise the Saudis used to carry Indian mulims on planquins while on haj and they used to scatter gold mohurs to the Arabic beggars.The Arabic muslim world did not ever see such a sight of non-military rich Muslims as Indian Muslims.

Maybe the oil price crash will reduce the free change for KSA to spend abroad. I think the Dubai real estate crisis is good time for India to squeeze them to get the Indian criminals who hide there.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 06 Dec 2008 00:07

archan wrote:PM in his statement today said that "the territory of a neighboring country was used to launch attack on India". Why "a neighboring country"? why can't the PM say that Pakistani territory was used? does any international norm prohibit him from doing this or is it the plain old ... ?

Because he is missing balls and is already yellow some where down.

Where is the **** with anger on his face?

archan · Post by **archan** » 06 Dec 2008 00:09

JS, I request you to stop making remarks about AmberG.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 06 Dec 2008 00:10

archan wrote:PM in his statement today said that "the territory of a neighboring country was used to launch attack on India". Why "a neighboring country"? why can't the PM say that Pakistani territory was used? does any international norm prohibit him from doing this or is it the plain old ... ?

Maybe its Bangladesh he's referring to?

In any case, its no secret that TSP, BD and Nepali territory is being used to cause India harm.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 06 Dec 2008 00:11

Enough of baiting posters. If you have a problem with something another poster said, please use the report post function.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 06 Dec 2008 00:13

Oil price has fallen but only after being high long enough, that an awareness has come about in the non-eco populace (the majority) that they should not drive gas-guzzlers and cut down on their heating costs.

That has allowed the Green Awareness to blossom, and hopefully we are on our way to having our cars running on bio-diesel or hybrid engines. I hope the Green Revolution goes through, especially with Obama in the White House, so that the world's dependence on the House of Saud is finished for once and for all.

Anyway Oil will be finished soon (though not soon enough, not before the psycho-clones have multiplied big).

Liberation is at hand, because without Oil and Heroin, the Islamic countries have nothing to offer.

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 06 Dec 2008 00:13

Dont you know, he means to say. It was Bhutan were this attack was plan.

I guess UN resolution saudi king wants to pass is already working. We cant name pakistan, because thats insulting islam & crime punishable by executions,stoning or firing squad...

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 06 Dec 2008 00:14

vsudhir wrote:
archan wrote:PM in his statement today said that "the territory of a neighboring country was used to launch attack on India". Why "a neighboring country"? why can't the PM say that Pakistani territory was used? does any international norm prohibit him from doing this or is it the plain old ... ?
Maybe its Bangladesh he's referring to?

In any case, its no secret that TSP, BD and Nepali territory is being used to cause India harm.

Why that ambiguity, if he paid attention to his duties instead of serving the family needs?

archan · Post by **archan** » 06 Dec 2008 00:14

vsudhir wrote:
archan wrote:PM in his statement today said that "the territory of a neighboring country was used to launch attack on India". Why "a neighboring country"? why can't the PM say that Pakistani territory was used? does any international norm prohibit him from doing this or is it the plain old ... ?
Maybe its Bangladesh he's referring to?

In any case, its no secret that TSP, BD and Nepali territory is being used to cause India harm.

That's the question, why leave ambiguity? who told these leaders to talk in this (IMO ridiculous) way?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 Dec 2008 00:14

Ramana,
In Long term, ME and its wealth has to come under our control. The first step is to remove Paki Killgion Kabila( WKK and PKK.) Indian leadership must have some strategic vision . They should claim this in the name of IMs.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Dec 2008 00:19

Prem wrote:Ramana,
In Long term, ME and its wealth has to come under our control. The first step is to remove Paki Killgion Kabila( WKK and PKK.) Indian leadership must have some strategic vision . They should claim this in the name of IMs.

Totally agree with you. All those lands have to be brought back to Indic control for our own people.

BTW, I got the word killigion from you in the dhaga. Need to popularize it. THis way we can separate the dogma followed in TSP/KSA from that in other lands.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 06 Dec 2008 00:20

In the long run, the Sheikhs have to invest their wealth in emerging markets, when Oil runs out or it is low-priced and they are not earning any more from it.

I believe, that when Oil runs out, the Sheikhs will take their money and be gone. The Kabila will take over the emptied sands and billions of mouths to feed.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 06 Dec 2008 00:22

http://news.google.com/nwshp?hl=en&tab= ... 21&topic=w

Backgrounder
Profile: Lashkar-e-Taiba (Army of the Pure) (a.k.a. Lashkar e-Tayyiba, Lashkar e-Toiba; Lashkar-i-Taiba)

Jayshree Bajoria, Staff Writer
Council on Foreign Relations
Friday, December 5, 2008; 11:44 AM

Introduction

The Indian government has often accused the group Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) of terrorist attacks, including the November 2008 deadly assault in Mumbai that killed nearly two hundred people and injured more than three hundred. LeT is among several banned Pakistani militant groups that experts say received backing from Pakistan's intelligence agency, the ISI, to fight in Indian-administered Kashmir. Analysts say the group continues to operate freely inside Pakistan under a different name and has now become a global terrorist organization.

Origins of a Movement

Lashkar-e-Taiba, meaning "army of the pure" has been active since 1993. It is the military wing of the well-funded Pakistani Islamist organization Markaz-ad-Dawa-wal-Irshad, which was founded in 1989 and recruited volunteers to fight alongside the Taliban. During the 1990s, experts say LeT received instruction and funding from Pakistan's intelligence agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), in exchange for a pledge to target Hindus in Jammu and Kashmir and to train Muslim extremists on Indian soil. Pakistan's government has repeatedly denied allegations of supporting terrorism.
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Until it was banned in Pakistan in 2002, LeT claimed responsibility for numerous attacks, including an attack on the army barracks at Delhi's Red Fort in 2000, killing three people; a January 2001 attack on Srinagar airport that killed five Indians; and an attack in April 2002 against Indian border security forces that left at least four dead. But after being outlawed, it has not admitted to attacks. It denied responsibility for the November 2008 attack in Mumbai, the July 2006 attack on the Mumbai commuter rail, and the 2001 attack on the Indian parliament, despite the Indian government's allegations.

Husain Haqqani, now Pakistan's ambassador to Washington, wrote about jihadist groups in a 2005 essay while he was a visiting scholar at the Washington-based Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. In the essay, he said: "The most significant jihadi group of Wahhabi persuasion (PDF) [influenced by the doctrine of 18th-century Islamic scholar Muhammad ibn-Abdul Wahhab] is Lashkar-e-Taiba" which is backed by Saudi money and protected by Pakistani intelligence services. According to South Asia Terrorism Portal (SATP), a terrorism database on the region, LeT's professed ideology goes beyond merely challenging India's sovereignty over the state of Jammu and Kashmir. The LeT's agenda, as outlined in a pamphlet titled, "Why are we waging jihad," includes the restoration of Islamic rule over all parts of India, it says. The pamphlet also declares the United States, Israel, and India as existential enemies of Islam, writes Haqqani. The portal adds: LeT "seeks to bring about a union of all Muslim majority regions in countries that surround Pakistan." According to Haqqani, LeT justifies its ideology by the Quranic verse that says, "You are obligated to fight even though it is something you do not like" (2:216).

Leadership and Funding

The group has its headquarters in Muridke near Lahore in Pakistan, say experts, and is headed by Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, a former Islamic-studies professor. In December 2008, New Delhi demanded that Islamabad hand over Saeed as a suspect wanted for terrorism in India, including the November 2008 Mumbai attacks. SATP says LeT's headquarters complex houses a madrassa (seminary), a hospital, a market, a large residential area for the group's scholars and faculty members, a fish farm, and agricultural tracts. The terrorism portal says the group operates 16 Islamic institutions, 135 secondary schools, an ambulance service, mobile clinics, blood banks, and several seminaries across Pakistan. The U.S. State Department says the actual size of the group is unknown but contends it has several thousand members in the Kashmir region. It says most LeT members are Pakistanis from madrassas across Pakistan and Afghanistan. It also notes the group is alleged to augment its strength through collaboration with terrorist groups comprised of non-Pakistanis. The group uses assault rifles, light and heavy machine guns, mortars, explosives, and rocket-propelled grenades. LeT publishes its views and opinion through its website, an Urdu-language monthly journal, Al-Dawa, and an Urdu weekly, Gazwa. It also publishes several other magazines, including Voice of Islam, an English-language monthly.

According to most sources, the group collects donations from the Pakistani expatriate community in the Persian Gulf and Britain as well as from Islamic NGOs, and Pakistani and Kashmiri businessmen. Experts say it also receives funding from the ISI and Saudi Arabia. LeT also coordinates its charitable activities through its front organization Jamaat-ud-Dawah (JUD), which spearheaded humanitarian relief to the victims of the 2005 earthquake in Kashmir.

Banned Organization

India blamed the LeT for the December 2001 attack on the Indian Parliament in New Delhi, and mobilized some 700,000 troops along the Pakistan border, threatening war unless Islamabad ended all cross-border infiltration of Islamic militants. This action triggered a corresponding Pakistani military mobilization. Washington helped defuse tensions, say experts, by formally acknowledging the link between Kashmiri terrorist groups operating in Pakistan and the Pakistani state for the first time. The U.S. addition of LeT to its Foreign Terrorist Organizations List in 2002 forced former Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf to ban the group inside Pakistan.

Experts say the group then went underground, splintered, and began using different names, and stopped claiming responsibility for attacks. In an August 2008 report (PDF), K. Alan Kronstadt, a specialist in South Asian affairs for the Congressional Research Service, writes LeT is now called Jamaat-ud-Dawah (the Society for Preaching). India says that over the last several years, LeT has split into two factions, al-Mansurin and al-Nasirin.

Under U.S. pressure, Musharraf placed Jamaat-ud-Dawah on a watch list in November 2003. However, Haqqani wrote in 2005 that Pakistani authorities have been reluctant to move against LeT or Jamaat-ud-Dawah. He notes that, while LeT scaled down armed attacks against India to help Pakistan honor its commitments to the United States and India, Saeed remained free and continued to expand his organization despite divisions in its leadership.

Experts say during the massive earthquake in the Kashmir region in 2005, Jamaat- ud-Dawah became a major player in relief and reconstruction efforts. Since then, the BBC reports the group has again been allowed to openly collect funds in Pakistan officially for reconstruction work. Many of their offices have reopened and its members have played a prominent role in rebuilding.

The Indian government blamed the LeT for the November 2008 Mumbai attacks. Indian security officials said one of the captured attackers revealed under questioning that he was from Pakistan's Punjab province, belonged to the LeT, and had been trained in militant camps inside Pakistan (Hindu). LeT is also suspected of involvement in the December 2001 attack of New Delhi's Parliament, the 2006 Mumbai train bombings, and the February 2007 blast of a train running between India and Pakistan. A little-known group called Lashkar-e-Qahar in July 2006 said it was associated with LeT and orchestrated the Mumbai bombings. New Delhi has also accused the Student Islamic Movement of India of connections with LeT and the Mumbai blasts as well as terrorist attacks in August 2003.

In its 2008 report on international religious freedom, the U.S. State Department said schools run by the Jamaat-ud-Dawah are "considered to be a front organization of the proscribed Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorist group, serve as recruitment centers for extremists."

Possible links to al-Qaeda

The U.S. State Department says a senior al-Qaeda member Abu Zubaydah was captured at an LeT safe house in Faisalabad in Pakistan in 2002, which suggested that some LeT members were facilitating the movement of al-Qaeda members in Pakistan.

The U.S. State Department's 2007 country report on terrorism says Pakistan-based LeT and other Kashmir-focused groups continued regional attack planning. "In 2007, Kashmir-focused groups continued to support attacks in Afghanistan, and operatives trained by the groups" continued to feature in al-Qaeda's transnational attack planning, it contends.

Ashley Tellis, a senior associate for the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace says LeT has grown into a terrorist organization of global reach (CNN). According to Tellis, LeT today operates in Kashmir, Afghanistan, Chechnya, and has been noticed in Iraq. It has fundraising operations in western Europe, and in Africa, he says.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Dec 2008 00:26

RajeshA wrote:In the long run, the Sheikhs have to invest their wealth in emerging markets, when Oil runs out or it is low-priced and they are not earning any more from it.

I believe, that when Oil runs out, the Sheikhs will take their money and be gone. The Kabila will take over the emptied sands and billions of mouths to feed.

Just like the scions of the Princiley states who becam sheep farmers or investors in the West. However they will still command the loyalties of dumb **** followers in the bad lands.

-----------
Acharya and SSridhar, We should have got our charts on L-e-T uploaded huh?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 Dec 2008 00:29

ramana wrote:
Prem wrote:Ramana,
In Long term, ME and its wealth has to come under our control. The first step is to remove Paki Killgion Kabila( WKK and PKK.) Indian leadership must have some strategic vision . They should claim this in the name of IMs.
Totally agree with you. All those lands have to be brought back to Indic control for our own people.

BTW, I got the word killigion from you in the dhaga. Need to popularize it. THis way we can separate the dogma followed in TSP/KSA from that in other lands.

AOA!! Let the word spread . Muslims all over the world should have choice between Religion and Killigion as propogated by Pakistan/ Saudia.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 06 Dec 2008 00:44

I wonder what Dr. Tim must be thinking now.

He once not long ago proclaimed
"Pakistan is rational Nuclear power"

India needs to be punished more by sanctions as it was the original proliferator!

Paging Dr. Tim to clarify if he thinks now India is irrational nuke power for not having Nuked TSP by now?

***
For the ilks like Rajesh A who seem to hae some contempt for senior BRites here need to read this, if they already done and still (s)pout...

1)

Since about 1993, the Pakistanis have also been funding other groups
which have much closer ties ideologically and in some cases politically and economically to the
ideology of al Qaeda.

2)

The
Taliban had clear links to al Qaeda. They provided sanctuary. They provided training facilities.
Al Qaeda were the cutting edge for the Taliban Army--a term that we should use loosely--in its
efforts to take over and control Afghanistan. The Taliban was formed in Pakistan with
substantial support from Pakistani intelligence via the ISI. They have been closely linked with
Taliban.

3)

Any conflict
between India and Pakistan the Pakistanis want to be short. They want it to be limited, and they
want the international community to come in.

4)

A lot of people who are
experts in a lot of other places in the world suddenly declared themselves South Asia experts,
and they even got paid for it which means it's a great job market.

In this recession all BRFites have to do is wave their posts in the air and they will land jobs.
Johann keeps his job that way

http://ww.watsoninstitute.org/events/GSSSHoyt040903.pdf

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 06 Dec 2008 00:47

ramana wrote: Bijushet, The SIMI are all modern educated folks who most likely never attended a mosque. ...

Ramanasaar no contest about everything else you wrote but I disagree with the quoted portion. Most educated IM folks do make time to attend mosque on friday. Mine is anecdotal evidence so feel free to dismiss it. Liberal IMs usually live it up in their growing years but somewhere along the road many also discover religion. I am sure that is also true of other faiths. But then most folks of kuffr religions make the distinction between what is preached and what is to be practised because they are able to apply their own critical thinking to what is being preached. M&Ms (a moderate & also a believer) on the other hand do not have this luxury as criticial thinking is itself Haraam in RoP and makes one a Kufr if one continues to be critical of what is being preached. Either you buy it whole or walk away thus no middle ground available.

The issue is for most IMs including the educated ones, there is a lot of preaching going on that is via peer to peer shared VCDs (by p2p I mean door to door and not via cyber delivery). Many of these VCDs may not be produced in India but they are widely available among the IM population. This poisonous preachings of distorted half truths is what is causing the educated IMs to switch sides. Liberals in our population do not help when they keep repeating these half truths thus lending it credibility. No Govt. in India wants to tackle this issue headlong as that would mean bringing charges of sedition against a large group of Indians. In a few years EJs too will switch to this mode of delivery once they build a self sustaining momentum. This is an easy way to pass on your message and poison the well without getting wet yourself. "Divide and Rule" in the 21st century.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 06 Dec 2008 00:48

If one posts unhelpful, whiny s**t nonstop, it makes little difference if one is senior BRite or a junior BRite.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 06 Dec 2008 00:55

Was wondering where you were sulking.

what was your helpful shit that you posted sir, with all respect to your highness, are you a chela of Tim or Tom Tom?

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 06 Dec 2008 00:56

Waiting for your next post quoting your own "wisdom" such as it were. Quit your effing whining and say something constructive for a change if you are capable of such things....or not. Not my problem.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 06 Dec 2008 00:56

Then lick it up

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 06 Dec 2008 00:58

RajeshA wrote:I thought, that it was Islam, that was criticizing all other religions, by calling their followers kafirs. Maybe UN should then ban Islam itself.

Don't you know of another religion of peace that calls people of other faith as "Heathen", "Pagan", and lovely name for a goat on way to slaughter "Gentile"?

Kaafir is just an Arabic version of one of the above words. Islam is just following the foot steps of Romanized Christianity.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 06 Dec 2008 01:04

Brookings Institution Discussion on Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 06 Dec 2008 01:07

@JS & Rye saars please stop the Samooh Prakara Shauch Kriya. It does not help anyone here.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 06 Dec 2008 01:19

Outlines of P. Chidambaram's action plan...

http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=642651

Intelligence, Security Failed: Chidambaram

Union Home Minister P Chidambaram visits the CST station
Mumbai, December 5 (PTI)

The Centre has a proposal to set up a national level agency on the lines of Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI in the US to tackle terror, Union Home Minister P Chidambaram said on Friday admitting to failure of intelliegence and security systems that had led to last week's Mumbai terror strikes.

Plans in this regard would be announced in Parliament in a few days, he told a press conference after a visit to various places targetted by the terrorists last week including the CST, Taj and Oberoi Hotels and the JJ Hospital.

Chidambaram, who was shifted to Home from Finance ministry in the wake of the terror attacks, had yesterday met the Leader of the Opposition LK Advani with the proposal on setting up of an FBI like federal agency and is believed to have secured the support of the main opposition party.

"I agree that there has been a failure on the part of the security forces, but this attack will help the Government be more determined in combating terrorism," said the minister in a public admission by any top figure from the government to do so.

"Undoubtely there had been some lapses. I will be less than truthful if I say there were no no lapses. There have been some lapses. They are being looked into," he said adding he would do his utmost to bring improvements in the system.

"I will strain every nerve to overcome the causes of these lapses and try to improve the effectiveness of the security system of the country and in the process we will help the state governments also improve the security system," the minister said.

On the involvement of Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) in the attacks, the Home Minister said, "there is ample evidence to link the attack to organisations or entities which have been responsible for terror attacks in the past.

"At this stage, it would not be correct to name any organisation but you can draw conclusions."

Chidambaram said the government was determined to take investigations into the attacks to logical conclusion and punish the guilty.

"The investigation into the attack has been entrusted to Mumbai Crime Branch and a full and clear picture will emerge in their report that will be submitted before the court," Chidambaram said.

"A lot of work is under progress and evidence has been gathered and various aspects would be checked after which full picture will be drawn," he added.

The minister said other efforts and steps that the central government would take could not not be disclosed here and they were addressing many of these issues with utmost seriousness.

Maintaining that he had not not taken any decisions since he took over on Monday, he said he took note of the anguish and legitimate complains about the lapses that led to the Mumbai attacks and the government would address them.

"There is speculation and I have read reports linking the terror attacks to Dawood Ibrahim and have taken note of it but cannot comment on it," he said in reply to questions.

This terror attack will trigger a change in the attitude of both the Central and state governments towards terror and combating terrorism, Chidambaram said and added that the government will go into the causes of security lapses.

"The need of the hour is a fundamental change and a change in our attitude towards law. The country also needs a heightened sense of alertness," he said.

"Terrorists chose Mumbai, famously known as the city of dreams to make maximum impact across the world. The attack is not only on the city but is a challenge to the soul of the country," he said.

"The Maharashtra Government has announced compensation packages for the kin of the deceased and injured persons in the terror attack and I have requested the home secretary to impleme nt those packages before December 31," Chidambaram said.

He further said that he has asked the insurance companies to expedite the insurance claims of the kin of deceased and the injured persons promptly.

"I would request Mumbaikars to summon once again the spirit of Mumbai so that it rises as the premium city of the country," the Home Minister said, adding that Mumbaikars have set an example in how to confront challenges on previous terror attacks.

Praising the security forces, he said the country should salute the work of the Maharashtra police, NSG and Marine Commandos.

"Hundreds of lives were saved by the security personnels in which 18 of them laid down their lives and we should not forget the sacrifices made by them," the Home Minister said.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 06 Dec 2008 01:25

bijuseth>> Avashya, but note the prakriya was by rt Hon exaulted highness, which exhausted me to pratikriya.

I was addressing Rajesh how
TSP Army = ISI = Taliban = Alqeda etc
and how nothing has changed since 9-11 to this day as far as TSP is concerned. They (uS think tanks) think appeasement will establish institutions ( Tim article) in TSP like Democracy etc etc.
Besides I never claim something that belongs to others as this mahajan spouts. I have clearly mentioned all the maha rishis who contributed in this fora,. Some how this mahajan butts in... and rest is all there to see.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 06 Dec 2008 01:52

John Snow wrote:bijuseth>> Avashya, but note the prakriya was by rt Hon exaulted highness, which exhausted me to pratikriya.

I was addressing Rajesh how
TSP Army = ISI = Taliban = Alqeda etc
and how nothing has changed since 9-11 to this day as far as TSP is concerned. They (uS think tanks) think appeasement will establish institutions ( Tim article) in TSP like Democracy etc etc.
Besides I never claim something that belongs to others as this mahajan spouts. I have clearly mentioned all the maha rishis who contributed in this fora,. Some how this mahajan butts in... and rest is all there to see.

But my dear bachelorette saar a wise Swahili man once wrote "When two elephants fight, it is the grass that suffers."

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 06 Dec 2008 01:57

Ok thats how grass root problems start.

No more

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 06 Dec 2008 02:01

It’s official, NSG says media got in the way, wants guidelines

It’s official, NSG says media got in the way, wants guidelines
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Raghvendra Rao Posted: Dec 06, 2008 at 0135 hrs IST
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New Delhi: Concerned over the way many aspects of its operations got “jeopardized” due to live images being broadcast by TV during the 60-hour siege, the National Security Guard (NSG) is now pushing for restrictions on media coverage wherever its commandos are engaged in combat. Having already raised the issue during its recent meetings with Home Ministry officials, the NSG top brass is likely to move a written request in this connection, it is learnt.

Sources told The Indian Express that the force is particularly miffed with the way its operations at Nariman House were broadcast live. Questions are being raised over the way Havaldar Gajender Singh fell to a terrorist’s bullet at Nariman House. “TV broadcast our commandos landing from a helicopter on the roof over Nariman House. By the time our men landed and started taking positions, the terrorists were already waiting for them and opened fire,” an NSG official said.

In contrast, NSG officials said, operations at Oberoi “could be conducted more smoothly” since TV channels were kept beyond a one-kilometre radius. “This zone was put under virtual curfew with no access allowed to television crews,” said an NSG commando leading the Oberoi operations. “The operations there took the least time, just under 30 hours, as compared to the other two places,” he said.