Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 08 Dec 2008 01:52

vsudhir wrote:Only hope is that the said weakness be restricted only to this governing dispensation and that the next set of polls produce a more hardline ruling coalition that will be less willing to take jhapads and might actually proactively stoke some fires in TSP to achieve desired aims. Sadly, the decision making paralysis likely might be systemic to a large extent and there maybe no getting around that.

JMTPs onlee.

you are talking about an illusive government. If you are referring to NDA then what happened when air india plane was hijacked in 1999 and parliament was attacked? UPA and NDA are "sher" at home, lamb when it comes to action.

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 08 Dec 2008 01:57

Amber G. wrote:There was a news blip, now alos in TOI, sorry if already posted.
Pakistan cracks down on LeT camp
SLAMABAD: Pakistani security forces took over a camp used by Lashkar-e-Taiba militants in Pakistani Kashmir on Sunday, a witness and an official from a charity linked to Lashkar said.

"This happened this afternoon, security forces took over the camp," said an official with Jamaat-ud-Dawa charity.

Cross post:
OK,
Lets face it.
Pakistan, that poor nation has been reduced to being a prostitute, inspite of all the bravardo its leaders make a show of. The powers that be KNOW that ultimately all the hot gas that they expel for the masses to inhale, the truth is unconfortable.

I think Pakistan has agreed to GUBO once again, this time to arch enemy India, the only thing is they are spending this intervening period (And they've picked this "face saving thing" from the Chinese) in negotiating a Face saving formula for all sides to be satisfied with their performance.

I think they would eventually agree to a taquiya, and say, OK we'll knock off these and these guys so that takes care of the problem for now, AND it sends a message to the rest of the Jihad Factory, to not overstep.

Hamid Gul gets his CIA visits inland within pakistan, same as Abdul Qadeer Khan did - Under House arrest. Monsieur Hafiz Sayeed gets to be a religious seminary for real, retired from the day to day running of the LET. The smaller fish simply vanish - Poof - as happens once so often in Pakistan when crisis arrives.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 08 Dec 2008 02:11

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... ct/395345/

Pakistan distanced itself from a report that said it had agreed to a 48-hour deadline set by India and the US to act against LeT, saying Islamabad do not have to respond to each and every ‘provocative statement or comment’ in media.

so what next?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 08 Dec 2008 03:03

munna wrote:
lakshmic wrote: The whole Mumbai thing might be the army protecting its turf by showing how week kneed the civvies are.
Exactly Lakshmic, the civvies know that if they side with TSPA they are toast and if they side with YYY (Yindoo, yahudi yamrika alliance) they are burnt toasts. There only hope of survival is to somehow get a massive H&D loss or jhapad delivered on the TSPA face. The TSPA is desperate to avoid that and will do all sort of things to get civvies damaged. In short a perfect power struggle that is waiting to be exploited!

TSPA can at ANY time declare jihad on the "civvies". And, get China to back them on all international forums.

SA will want some amount of spunk in TSP for its own use. So, they too would be totally against TSPA vanishing.

On the flip side, the "civvies" are of no use to anyone on this earth, even themselves. What power they will have even IF they "win" is debatable.

Obama + Biden will soon realise that pumping money to make TSP a democracy cannot happen.

Redraw and isolate the PakJabi.

I do not see a link between this and the Sihk example you gave.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 08 Dec 2008 03:33

The whole Mumbai thing might be the army protecting its turf by showing how week kneed the civvies are.

My read is that it is a combination of things: all the above posts included. In fact I would like to add one more to that list: they think that the US is weakening (heard that on a Paki TV show too) and will leave within a year.

However, here are my two leading triggers:

* The frustration/s felt within the Islamic ISI + TSPA that the Faith is facing a slowing down in spreading.

* This is MY GUESS, but I think there is some pressure from the likes of SA in particular. This I do not think is a direct fatwa type, but TSPA sees indicators in the behaviour of SA (and actually China too - China lectured Paulson just last week)

The driving force is the spread of their Faith.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 08 Dec 2008 03:34

abhijitm wrote:

you are talking about an illusive government. If you move are referring to NDA then what happened when air india plane was hijacked in 1999 and parliament was attacked? UPA and NDA are "sher" at home, lamb when it comes to action.

I know it is easy to equate hijacking to Mumbai bombing but you have to move away from that.

There is a constituency for protecting the people.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 08 Dec 2008 03:40

munna wrote:
Exactly Lakshmic, the civvies know that if they side with TSPA they are toast and if they side with YYY (Yindoo, yahudi yamrika alliance) they are burnt toasts. There only hope of survival is to somehow get a massive H&D loss or jhapad delivered on the TSPA face. The TSPA is desperate to avoid that and will do all sort of things to get civvies damaged. In short a perfect power struggle that is waiting to be exploited!

What about protecting the people in the country. Is it only about politics here on the deaths of people. Protection and security should be a non negotiable issue in politics.

munna · Post by **munna** » 08 Dec 2008 03:49

NRao wrote: SA will want some amount of spunk in TSP for its own use. So, they too would be totally against TSPA vanishing.
On the flip side, the "civvies" are of no use to anyone on this earth, even themselves. What power they will have even IF they "win" is debatable.
Obama + Biden will soon realise that pumping money to make TSP a democracy cannot happen.
Redraw and isolate the PakJabi.
I do not see a link between this and the Sihk example you gave.

NRaoji the civvies in Pakistan are very much like the courtiers in Lahore Kingdom that is useless, gutless, greedy bunch of ineffective people. TSPA for them the is big goonda and they are the smaller goonda and the only way they can get to enjoy some real power is if the bigger goonda gets a walloping and stands diminished. They too are not interested in a democracy and only want to sell the waste land to which they belong to. If TSPA stands diminished and THEY get the nominal power I think a partition of Pakistan will be achieved with not even a single shot fired as everyone of those rootless wonders will want to be a EL Presidente of some hoogabooga-tan or humho-tan. To divide Pakistan we need to demoralize (read some decisive armed action) the army and kill the beast.

PS: The Sikh army was defeated by the British but not finished off and they went on to serve their interests in 1857. So we need to first demoralize and divide Pakistan while bringing the erstwhile units of TSPA under Indian influence.

munna · Post by **munna** » 08 Dec 2008 03:53

Acharya wrote:
munna wrote:
Exactly Lakshmic, the civvies know that if they side with TSPA they are toast and if they side with YYY (Yindoo, yahudi yamrika alliance) they are burnt toasts. There only hope of survival is to somehow get a massive H&D loss or jhapad delivered on the TSPA face. The TSPA is desperate to avoid that and will do all sort of things to get civvies damaged. In short a perfect power struggle that is waiting to be exploited!

What about protecting the people in the country. Is it only about politics here on the deaths of people. Protection and security should be a non negotiable issue in politics.

Protection of the people in this country is non negotiable and that is why in my opinion the destruction of Pakistan should be non negotiable instrument of Indian strategic/foreign policy. In this case as long as Pakistan is alive Punjabs, J&Ks, Assams and Mumbais will keep happening. Offence is the best form of defence in our case.

Give peace a chance destroy Pakistan.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 08 Dec 2008 04:33

munna wrote:
Acharya wrote:
What about protecting the people in the country. Is it only about politics here on the deaths of people. Protection and security should be a non negotiable issue in politics.
Protection of the people in this country is non negotiable and that is why in my opinion the destruction of Pakistan should be non negotiable instrument of Indian strategic/foreign policy. In this case as long as Pakistan is alive Punjabs, J&Ks, Assams and Mumbais will keep happening. Offence is the best form of defence in our case.

Give peace a chance destroy Pakistan.

OK, What is need to talk about civvies to side with TSPA or other side. Their is only side that is the Indian national side.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 08 Dec 2008 04:40

Crackdown on office of Lashkar's front organisation

Pakistan security forces cracked down on an office of Jamat-ud-dawah (JuD), the front organisation of the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), near Muzaffarabad in Pakistan occupied Kashmir on Sunday, a television channel has reported.

munna · Post by **munna** » 08 Dec 2008 04:42

Acharyaji merely discussing the tools and modalities of division e Pakistan and that is India's goal. No love lost for civvies or any paki.

James B · Post by **James B** » 08 Dec 2008 04:45

Hamid Gul's interview by Fareed Zakaria on CNN

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/po ... ideosearch

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 08 Dec 2008 05:18

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/08/world ... ai.html?hp

Some more details...

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 08 Dec 2008 05:25

Kasab's village and family found by Brit newspaper
Porki lies and complicity nailed.

UK paper claims Mumbai attacker is Pakistani

Monday, December 08, 2008
By Aamir Ghauri

LONDON: Nuclear-armed India and Pakistan might go on disagreeing on who really attacked Mumbai last month but a British newspaper claims to have found the home, parent’s record, neighbours and even a grandfather of the lone-surviving gunman caught by the Indian police. The Observer, a leading British Sunday broadsheet, has claimed to have found “conclusive proof” that Ajmal Amir Kasab, arrested by the Indian police during November’s terrorist attacks on Mumbai, came from a village in Okara district of Pakistani Punjab.

The paper wrote that Ajmal Amir Kasab reportedly told the Indian security officials that he came from a place called Faridkot in the Punjab province, his father was named as Mohammed Amir, married to a woman named Noor. “During the past week, Pakistani sources have cast doubt on the authenticity of the leaked information, which has had a predictably explosive impact on relations between the two countries,” the paper said and added:

“The Observer has obtained electoral lists of Faridkot, showing 478 registered voters, including Mohammed Amir, married to Noor Elahi. Amir’s and Noor’s national identity card numbers have also been obtained. At the address identified in the list, a man identifying himself as Sultan said he was the father-in-law of Mohammed Amir.” In a detailed but explosive report, the newspaper claims its correspondent has been up and down the Punjab province and toured different Faridkots before coming upon one near Depalpur in Okara district. He claims to have been told by the locals of their horror the moment the news of Mumbai attacks flashed on TV screens and the boy being identified by some of them. “We’ve all known from the first day (of the news of the terrorist attack) that it was him, Ajmal Amir Kasab. His mother started crying when she saw his picture on television,” the locals reportedly told the newspaper which also claims that Ajmal’s parents had been mysteriously spirited away earlier in the week. “The authorities may now attempt to deny that Ajmal’s parents live in Faridkot, but, according to some locals, they have been there for some 20 years. But by the end of our visit, a crucial piece of evidence had been gained. The Observer has managed to obtain an electoral roll for Faridkot, which falls under union council number 5, Tehsil (area) Depalpur, Okara district. The list of 478 registered voters shows ‘Mohammed Amir’, married to Noor Elahi, living in Faridkot. Amir’s national identity card number is given as 3530121767339, and Noor’s 3530157035058.”

The paper, quoting an unnamed villager, claims to have been told that villages in the area were “active recruiting ground” for the banned militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba and its other affiliates like Markaz Dawatul Irshad (MDI) and Jamaatul-Dawah. “According to the villager and other locals, Ajmal has not lived in Faridkot for about four years but would return to see his family once a year and frequently talked of freeing Kashmir from Indian rule,” the report revealed. The villager, who turned whistleblower, told the paper that a Lashkar-e-Taiba office in Depalpur had been hurriedly closed in the past few days and confirmed that Ajmal had last visited the village a couple of months ago during the last Eid. The paper also claimed that since their last visit to Faridkot, local mayor Ghulam Mustafa Wattoo announced via a mosque loudspeaker that no one was to speak to any outsiders. “By yesterday, Pakistani intelligence officials had descended in force on Faridkot. Locals, speaking by telephone, said a Pakistani TV crew and an American journalist had been roughed up and run out of the town. It appeared that the backlash had begun.”

In another report, the Sunday Times, claimed to have seen an Indian intelligence report claiming that the 10 terrorist commandos, who shot dead more than 160 people in Mumbai last month, were among 500 trained to elite standards by Pakistan Army and Navy instructors. The “leaked” report claimed to have the names of gunmen’s ISI trainers and handlers and to have intercepted internet phone calls between them.

The paper claimed that Admiral Michael Mullen, the chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, told his Pakistani counterpart that America had proof that the attacks were launched from Pakistani soil by the Lashkar-e-Taiba. The news report said sources close to the Indian intelligence claimed that another attack (on India) before next year’s general elections would make war inevitable.

According to the paper, the Indian intelligence report claims: “The training of these 500 men was in three phases. The first was basic physical fitness and firearms training. The second was marine navigation and swimming. The third phase involved sabotaging underwater installations such as oil rigs, ships and submarines. They were trained to a level of US Seals or Pakistani marine commandos. They were elite. Ten of these men were the ones who attacked Mumbai.”

But talking to The Sunday Telegraph, Brigadier Tariq Jilani, a spokesman for the Pakistani Army, demanded supporting evidence. “The government of Pakistan and the people of Pakistan have been asking (the Indians) if they have any proof. If somebody is so sure that they know the people have been trained by men in uniform, I think by now they should have been able to provide some proof.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Dec 2008 05:36

venkat_r wrote:US would never risk its boots in Pakistan, Even India is in no position to do that. Either we bomb from up above or outsource the fight to some group in Pakistan.

]
This perception was one of the reasons for my attempt to start the unsuccessful "What is Pakistan" thread.

The people of Sindh and Pakjab have always allowed themselves to be conquered by someone or other through history. Baluchistan is a vast empty land. That leaves only NWFP/FATA where boots on the ground are a problem.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 08 Dec 2008 05:41

shiv wrote:
venkat_r wrote:US would never risk its boots in Pakistan, Even India is in no position to do that. Either we bomb from up above or outsource the fight to some group in Pakistan.
]
This perception was one of the reasons for my attempt to start the unsuccessful "What is Pakistan" thread.

The people of Sindh and Pakjab have always allowed themselves to be conquered by someone or other through history. Baluchistan is a vast empty land. That leaves only NWFP/FATA where boots on the ground are a problem.

In NWFP/FATA there will soon not even be Pakjabi Boots on the Ground. Why would India want to do hunting there?

kobe · Post by **kobe** » 08 Dec 2008 06:45

SaiK wrote:durgesh, there is no such thing exists nor plausible. one definitely hurt them by dumping dead pigs, pork and ham industry wastes. you don't need military or Indian govt to do this. You can pick or hire a few people to do this ......

all you need is a dozen chinese tourists to be camping on the river front, they will be dumping port and pork by-products like there is no tomorrow...

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 08 Dec 2008 07:06

In NWFP/FATA there will soon not even be Pakjabi Boots on the Ground. Why would India want to do hunting there?

International boots.

To stabilize A'stan and then get the energy products out of CA? I mean India should never place boots to hurt PakJabis.

BTW, SA Oil Minister stated that they want to be leaders in Solar energy and I Think I heard him say (was washing dishes) that they want to be the leaders n exporting electricity!!!!! Need to verify the last statement on 60 minutes.

venkat_r · Post by **venkat_r** » 08 Dec 2008 07:09

shiv wrote:This perception was one of the reasons for my attempt to start the unsuccessful "What is Pakistan" thread.

The people of Sindh and Pakjab have always allowed themselves to be conquered by someone or other through history. Baluchistan is a vast empty land. That leaves only NWFP/FATA where boots on the ground are a problem.

People of Sindh and Pakjab have allowe themselves to be conquered by someone before is a good start, but a too generalised statement. What factors allowed them to be conqured? Did they give up without a fight, were they itching to be taken over (I know this is silly, but..). Is it possible that there was condierable local help in many cases, unless there was some ruthless killing by the occupant, to subjugate them into submission. Also, interpretaions for conquering might also differ, - One(right wing nut in pakistan) might argue that civilian people cutting military to size and beating them into submission is nothing but conquering Pakistan for US/India/Israel.

But the point of interest here, is to follow what was followed somewhat successfuly in Kargil's case? Just let the lesser of the evils do the job for now.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 08 Dec 2008 07:31

A peaceful protest in Pakistan
With solidarity with Nariman house perhaps?
(Please feel free to use it, if one needs to be eductated about Paki janta)

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 08 Dec 2008 08:08

Naxal Ram is an expert in International Relations...

Use U.N. Security Council Resolution 1373 to bring pressure on Pakistan, says N. Ram

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 08 Dec 2008 08:16

Aren't Pakis going to do equal equal by demanding Col. Purohit for the Samjhoota express bombing ?

Gerard wrote:Naxal Ram is an expert in International Relations...

Use U.N. Security Council Resolution 1373 to bring pressure on Pakistan, says N. Ram

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 08 Dec 2008 08:19

Chicago Tribune's Kim Barker confirms Observer, Guadian and McClatchy Newspapers' reporter story - The story is further confirmed by NawasSharif .

Here is the link:
Mumbai attacker linked to Pakistani village

Mumbai attacker linked to Pakistani village
The Tribune's Kim Barker, following the roots of the Mumbai suspect, is the 1st Westerner to visit the remote village of Faridkot

By Kim Barker

Tribune correspondent

7:53 PM CST, December 7, 2008

FARIDKOT, Pakistan—The trail to the hometown of the lone surviving gunman in the Mumbai terrorist attacks leads to this dusty village in Punjab.

Despite government denials that the captured terrorist was from Pakistan, Pakistani journalists said Azam Qasab, also known as Ajmal Amir Kamal and Azam Amir Kasav, grew up here. And a former prime minister said Indian officials told their Pakistani counterparts that Qasab said he was from a village named Faridkot in this part of Punjab.

In Faridkot on Saturday, however, no one acknowledged knowing Qasab. And the reception for a Tribune correspondent and several Pakistani journalists was openly hostile from the men who greeted them at the village entrance.

The villagers said they did not remember the alleged gunman's father, Mohammed Amir Qasab, nor the Qasab family shop that sold deep-fried snacks called pakoras. It is as if the Qasab family—their last name means "butcher" in Urdu—never existed.

"Nothing has happened in this village," said Sikander Ali Wattoo, a college professor sitting outside the mayor's office. "It's only a misunderstanding. No terrorist lives in this village."

Faridkot, and how Pakistan handles the story of Qasab, may lie at the heart of the dangerous tensions between nuclear-armed rivals India and Pakistan in the wake of last month's Mumbai terrorist attacks, which left 171 people dead.

India has blamed a Pakistan-based terrorist group, Lashkar-e-Taiba, or "army of the pure," for masterminding the attacks and said Qasab has admitted under interrogation that he was trained at Lashkar camps in Pakistan.

The Pakistanis say they will cooperate but have seen no proof of a Pakistan link. But evidence that Qasab is from Pakistan would guarantee at least some Pakistani role in the killings and could force the government to take action, as demanded by India and the United States.

The country's most powerful intelligence agency, Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI, helped build up groups such as Lashkar 20 years ago to fight in disputed Kashmir, experts say. Many militants recruited for these groups were from rural Punjab, from villages such as Faridkot.

Some Indian authorities have suggested that the ISI could have had a role in the Mumbai attacks—a charge Pakistan vociferously denies.

There are at least five Faridkots in Punjab, but only one in the Okara district here.

Former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, whose party runs Punjab province and whose brother is the provincial chief minister, said Pakistan government officials told him what the Indians say Qasab told them under questioning. He said Qasab, about 21, said that he was a resident of Faridkot in the Okara district, about two hours south of Lahore.

"This boy says, 'I belong to Okara, and I left my home some years ago,' " Sharif said in an interview. He said Qasab allegedly would come home for a few days every six months or a year.

"He cut off his links with his parents," Sharif said. "The relationship between him and his parents was not good. Then he disappeared."

The British newspaper Observer visited this village and reported Sunday that it obtained voter rolls showing the names of the parents Qasab reportedly told Indian authorities. Village authorities told the Tribune that the couple did not exist.

Rubnawaz Joya, a local journalist who is president of the press club of Dipalpur, less than 2 miles from Faridkot, said Faridkot villagers told him that Qasab last came home during an Islamic holiday about two months ago. Joya said the villagers said Qasab bragged that he could fight 10 men at the same time and showed off his fighting moves.

No one said that Saturday, when the village of Faridkot seemed as though it was under some kind of shadowy siege.

A group of village leaders met journalists at the main road leading into Faridkot, where about 10,000 people live in small brick houses along brick and dirt paths. They said the Tribune correspondent was the first foreigner to visit, ever.

Ghulam Mustafa, the mayor, said the village was not the right Faridkot. Rashid Ahmed Wattoo, a farmer, said many young people from Faridkot had left to go work in Lahore.

A crowd formed, some holding large canes, and other journalists from the region showed up. "Don't film here," a man said. When two journalists working for an international news agency kept filming, the crowd started punching and kicking them. Their mobile telephones and digital-video cassettes, called DVs, were taken.

Near the Tribune's car, a few men talked about smashing its windows, stealing the reporter's purse and setting the car on fire. "Just burn their car," one man said.

"I know everything," one boy told the journalists. "Just keep quiet," a man told the boy. "Are you mad?" another man asked.

Finally, the villagers allowed the journalists to walk around—but only along one street, and only with an escort that quickly grew to 20 men.

A reporter for a Pakistani television station said he filmed the house where some villagers said Qasab had lived, and then hid the videocassette in his sock. The footage showed a man inside the house named Mohammad Ghafoor Ahmed denying knowing the Qasabs and said he was the real owner of the house.

"Off the record, everyone said Qasab was from Faridkot," the TV reporter said. "But on the record, they refused."

When told about what happened in Faridkot, Bilal Siddique Kamyana, a police commander in charge of Okara district, replied: "I can't say anything."

A bit later, when the news service journalists came to the police headquarters and complained about their stolen phones and video, Kamyana placed a call.

"Sir," he said, "your men have snatched the journalists' DVs and telephones. You can erase the images, but please give them back to the journalists."

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 08 Dec 2008 08:28

Hellooooo...... anybody in nai Delli with balls to play? Or they dropped the ball as usual?
Its D + 12 days

Not a pip squeek from Raksha Mantri ? You too Antony?

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 08 Dec 2008 08:48

Rice: 'No doubt' Mumbai attacks planned in Pakistan

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/07/ ... index.html

Ab kya kar lenge hum?

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 08 Dec 2008 09:39

Meanwhile mush the ex-dictator says:
World should sympathise with Pak, not blame it:

Islamabad, Dec 6 (PTI) With Pakistan facing immense pressure to act against the perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks, former President Pervez Musharraf has asked the world to "sympathise" with the country which is a "victim of circumstances" instead of blaming it for terrorism anywhere else.
"We have been a victim of terrorism, we have been a victim of circumstances over the last three decades for which a certain atmosphere has been created," said the former military ruler during whose tenure Pakistan became a key ally in the US-led war on terror.

Musharraf said Pakistan had contributed a lot to the war against terror and the world should appreciate its contribution rather than blaming it all the time.

"The world should see our problems and what we have faced. We have contributed so much towards anti-terrorism war and the world should really appreciate that and sympathise with us, instead of blaming us," he said.

International pressure is mounting on Islamabad to take "effective" action after the Mumbai terror attacks, believed to have been carried out by Pakistan-based elements.

The former President, who had to concede power to democratic parties after elections in the country early this year, said it was "unfortunate" that fingers are pointed at Pakistan "very often" and advocated that Islamabad take a strong stand against this.

"Pakistan is unfortunately blamed very often and we should take a strong stand on this. Pakistan is not responsible for terrorism anywhere in the world," he told ARY Television.

His comments came against the backdrop of US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice telling the leadership here that there is "irrefutable evidence" of involvement of elements in Pakistan in the Mumbai attacks and it had no option but to act urgently "otherwise, the US will act.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 08 Dec 2008 09:48

New York Times Uvacha: Unkil is ratcheting up pressure on the Pakis, but still cant kick the addiction to lahori-logic.

Pakistan’s Spies Aided Group Tied to Mumbai Siege

Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Pakistan-based militant group suspected of conducting the Mumbai attacks, has quietly gained strength in recent years with the help of Pakistan’s main spy service, assistance that has allowed the group to train and raise money while other militants have been under siege, American intelligence and counterterrorism officials say.

American officials say there is no hard evidence to link the spy service, the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI, to the Mumbai attacks. But the ISI has shared intelligence with Lashkar and provided protection for it, the officials said, and investigators are focusing on one Lashkar leader they believe is a main liaison with the spy service and a mastermind of the attacks.

Although Pakistan’s government officially banned Lashkar in 2002, American officials said that the group had maintained close ties since then to the Pakistani intelligence service. American spy agencies have documented regular meetings between the ISI and Lashkar operatives, in which the two organizations have shared intelligence about Indian operations in Kashmir.

“It goes beyond information sharing to include some funding and training,” said an American official who follows the group closely. “And these are not rogue ISI elements. What’s going on is done in a fairly disciplined way.”

Still, officials in Washington said they had yet to unearth any direct link between the Pakistan spy agency and the Mumbai attacks.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 08 Dec 2008 10:27

http://www.state. gov/secretary/ rm/2008/12/ 112622.htm

Remarks With Indian Minister of External Affairs Pranab Mukherjee
Secretary Condoleezza Rice
Hyderabad House
New Delhi, India
December 3, 2008
MINISTER MUKHERJEE: Good evening, friends in the media, Her Excellency Dr. Condoleezza Rice, who is Secretary of State. This evening, I have just concluded discussions with Her Excellency Dr. Condoleezza Rice, who is Secretary of State. She has especially come to express the solidarity of the United States of America with India in the wake of the heinous attacks by terrorists who struck in several locations in Mumbai last week. We deeply appreciate this visit, Madame Secretary, and I welcome you.
I informed Dr. Rice that there is no doubt that the terrorist attack in Mumbai was perpetrated by individuals who came from Pakistan and whose controllers are in Pakistan. This is an assessment that is widely shared by the international community. I briefed Dr. Rice on the discussions we have had with the Government of Pakistan following the Mumbai terrorist attack and our expectations of cooperation from them to ensure that the terrorists and organizations who participated these attacks are arrested and brought to justice. We expect all friendly governments in the international community to ensure that this happens.
I have also conveyed to Secretary Rice the feeling of anger and deep outrage in India for (inaudible) terrorist attacks in Mumbai which were preceded by similar terrorist attacks in other major cities of India earlier this year in Jaipur, Bandu, Ahmedabad, Delhi, and now in Mumbai. Almost 350 innocent lives have been lost in these attacks and more than 733 people injured (inaudible – these six incidents. Government of India (inaudible) needs to act defensively to protect India’s territory and integrity, and the right of our citizens to a peaceful life with all the means at our disposal. We look forward to the international community’s cooperation in our longstanding struggle against terrorism.
I would now like to invite Secretary Rice to make (inaudible). Thank you.
SECRETARY RICE: Thank you very much, and thank you, Minister. I had not expected to return to India as Secretary of State following my visit here just a couple of months ago, but I come because the President of the United States, the American people want India to know that the United States stands in solidarity with the people of India. I come with condolences for those who have lost their lives, those who have been maimed, for their families, for the people of Mumbai, for the ordeal through which they’ve just been, and for the people of India.
I think that Americans, perhaps as well as any understand what -- the feelings that run so deep at a time like this, having experienced the attacks of September 11th. We certainly understand too that there is a strong demand for bringing the perpetrators of such a crime to justice, and a deep desire to prevent any further attacks from taking place.
And Minister, I came also to pledge the cooperation of the United States in both those tasks. We are going to work very closely with you in any way that we can to try and get to the bottom of what happened, and then to help you to act on that, but also recognizing that in matters of terrorism, it is not just a matter of the punishment of the crime that has taken place. It is also a matter of preventing these terrorists who continue to plot and plan from perpetrating further crimes and further attacks.
I know too how difficult it is to take information and to make it into knowledge and then to be able to act on it. And I have said that the United States also has a good deal of experience in the counterterrorism fight and how one has to organize differently for that counterterrorism fight. I know, Minister, and have spoken with the Home Minister, that you are looking at reforms here in India as well. And I applaud, for instance, the Prime Minister’s emphasis on terrorist financing and other ways to track these killers.
I also want to note that the United States believes strongly that having lost our own citizens in this attack, this is a matter of concern not just because of our relationship with India, but because American lives were also lost. So it’s a matter of deep concern. And in that regard, we have made very clear that we expect all responsible nations to participate and cooperate in bringing these perpetrators to justice, and that Pakistan has a special responsibility to do so, and to do so transparently, fully, urgently. And that is a message that we have delivered. I have noted that President Zardari has pledged the cooperation of the Pakistani Government. It is a new civilian government. And we fully expect that those pledges of cooperation are going to be carried out and carried out fully.
And so, Minister, I know that this is a very difficult time for the people of India, for the people of Mumbai. But I hope that it is a time also when you can feel the sense of solidarity and support that is there in the international community from your friends. I was just in Great Britain. I know that the British are helping too. And I hope that you know more than anything that you are not alone in this fight. There are many of us who experience – who’ve experienced this terror, and we stand united in our determination to defeat. Thank you.
MODERATOR: Thank you, Madame Secretary. Two questions will be taken from each side. Kindly introduce yourself and your organization and indicate to whom the question is addressed to. First from the Indian side, (inaudible).
QUESTION: Good evening, (inaudible), CNN (inaudible). I have a question to each of the ministers.
To Minister Mukherjee first. Sir, your government has made it very clear, as – in fact, one Pakistan – of the clause in the bilateral relationship, if Pakistan does not deliver on your demands. Now today, we’ve heard President Zardari actually rule out the (inaudible) of 20 or 21 most wanted Indians and Pakistanis. How do you respond to that? Do you actually take action after this matter?
And to Ms. Rice, do you see the statement from the President as evidence of cooperation? And there are two parts to this question. My second question would be you say there have been steps to offer solidarity to the Indian Government. Would your government be willing to support any (inaudible) military strikes into Pakistan (inaudible)?
MR. MUKHERJEE: So far, Government of India is concerned, more action will be taken by the government -- will depend on the response which we have from the Pakistan authorities. We have given (inaudible) and expecting the response. After obtaining the response (inaudible), the government will consider it necessary to protect its territorial integrity, sovereignty and security of the -- of its civilians, government (inaudible). Thank you.
SECRETARY RICE: The response of the Pakistani Government should be one of cooperation and that – and that is what we expect, and we have been sending that message. In all responses, whether they are responses of governments around the world or the response of the Indian Government, the goal should be to make certain that the investigation gets to the bottom of what happened, that the perpetrators are brought to justice, and that there is enough information and a depth of understanding so that an effort can be made to prevent further attacks.
The hard thing about terrorism is that it’s not (inaudible) law enforcement-- it’s not a matter of waiting until a crime is committed and then you punish the perpetrators. The long pole in the tent, the effort, has to be to prevent. And that is what we are going to help India, and others are going to help India, and we believe Pakistan has an essential role to play in this to make certain that these terrorists cannot continue to operate and operate in this fashion.
Any response needs to be judged by its effectiveness in prevention, and also by not creating other unintended consequences or difficulties, that we are going to work very closely over this time. And as I said, we’re focused with India on both bringing the perpetrators to justice and on preventing further attacks. And I just want to underscore again, Americans were killed in this attack as well, so it’s especially concerning the United States.
MODERATOR: I solicit your cooperation. Kindly restrict yourself to one question.
MR. MCCORMACK: Next question, Anne Gearan with Associated Press.
QUESTION: Anne Gearan, AP, a question to each of you. Madame Secretary, can you be more specific when you say that this attack was different and you’re asking for a different kind of response from India and Pakistan, what specifically about it tells you that it’s distinct from previous terror attacks? And do you see the hand of al-Qaida anywhere in it?
And to Mr. Minister, I understand that just today a – some explosives were found in a train station in Mumbai that apparently had been there for a week. What confidence can the Indian people have that you’ve found all that there is to find and that they are safe?
SECRETARY RICE: Anne, I did not mean to suggest that there haven’t been other attacks. There have been. My point was concerning the sophistication of this attack, the way in which it was carried out, the targets that were obviously simultaneously attacked. And that, in itself, I think is somewhat different than attacks that have been seen in the past. But the response has to be the same, which is that the perpetrators have to be caught, they have to be brought to justice and they – and there has to be a maximal effort on preventing further attacks.
As to al-Qaida, let me be very clear. I – we are not saying that al-Qaida is the perpetrator here, and I want that to be very much understood. There are elements of this, the sophistication of it, which remind us that these extremists – and there are no good terrorists, they’re all extremists and they all have to be dealt with – that they are perhaps learning from each other. They move in the same circles. But clearly, the sophistication of the attack was really what I was addressing.
QUESTION: The closest (inaudible)?
MINISTER MUKHERJEE: In fact, we had a full (inaudible) city, and rapidly, there is a (inaudible). But essentially, the (inaudible) measure of the series of attacks which India received just this year – I mentioned in my statement that (inaudible) when the attacks have taken place, and I believe that that is right. (Inaudible) of the attacks are (inaudible) important to reach centers like (inaudible) national capital Delhi, and national capital Mumbai. Capital – if not capital, but very important place from (inaudible) science, technology, (inaudible). Therefore, (inaudible) is trying to (inaudible) at the development of scientific and economic ability of the country. And we have just lost forever our (inaudible). Thank you.
MODERATOR: Munish.
QUESTION: Munish , (inaudible) news service. Especially addressed to Madame Secretary of State, what (inaudible). Pakistan – Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari has made non-state actors for various activities with the region. And we (inaudible) of these elements that usually are patronized by sections of the Pakistani establishment and could be responsible for the (inaudible). Now in certain situation, what – how should India and the United States cooperate (inaudible) with Pakistan? And also, they decide presence of governments, so that government’s view linking Pakistan-based elements (inaudible)? Thank you.
SECRETARY RICE: Well, I’m not going to speculate on what might be found when investigations are complete. I do know that the Pakistani Government, under President Zardari, has pledged its complete cooperation, and that it needs to be transparent in that cooperation. The fact is that non-state actors sometimes operate within the confines of a state, on the territory of a state. And when that is the case, then there has to be very direct and tough action against them.
And so that is really the issue here. I think we need to let the facts lead where they may. The investigation is still underway. It can be done with as much forensic help as is needed from international parties. I know that Britain has expressed a desire to help. We have expressed a desire to help. But what we really need to do is to let the leads go where they may without premature speculation of how this might have actually taken place. But non-state actors – that’s still a matter of responsibility if, in fact, it somehow relates to your territory.
MR. MCCORMACK: The final question to Sylvie Lanteaume from AFP.
QUESTION: Sylvie Lanteaume, Agence France Press. Madame Secretary, how are you going to improve the intelligence sharing between India and Pakistan? Do you have any special step in mind or regional mechanism?
And Mr. Minister, what would you think about such a mechanism with the U.S. as a partner?
SECRETARY RICE: Well, I think the key here, Sylvie, is to worry less about what mechanisms there may be and more about just getting the job done. I think that there is a lot of information that various parties have concerning what happened on this attack. The – as the forensics go forward to look at what happened in the actual attack on the scene and as people are interviewed, more information will become available. And I don’t think we need to worry so much about a specific mechanism. I do think we need to make certain that there is proper coordination, and this can be done through regular channels of the various parties. So I do think the United States and others have a lot to add.
Let me just make a point. Everybody needs help. The United States has needed help in intelligence sharing, in cooperation. This isn’t a matter that any country handles on its own. The very nature of this terrorist threat is that it crosses borders. The very nature of this terrorist threat is that it locates different elements in different parts of the world. And so when we talk about cooperation, we are talking about something that is inherent in the nature of dealing with a terrorist threat that is global, not confined to a particular area. And so there isn’t really anything new in that sense. India and the United States have been cooperating. We have been cooperating with Great Britain when there have been threats that – against Britain or against the United States or against neighbors of the world. It sometimes requires cooperation with India.
So we have developed contacts for doing this, but we’re going to do it in a more intensive and urgent manner, because again, I want to emphasize that, yes, it is extremely important to bring these people to justice, but it is really important that we remember that when you’re dealing with terrorists, your goal is to also have prevention very much in mind.
MINISTER MUKHERJEE: We have a mechanism in which we share intelligence with USA and also with other countries. The importance of sharing this mechanism is more now if terrorism is to be stopped collectively by the international community. It is not confined to one country. Terrorism has no limit, either political or otherwise. They are the biggest menace to the world peace and tranquility in the post-Cold War era. They are (inaudible) by the entire international community. And for that, intelligence sharing is an important (inaudible). Thank you.
MODERATOR: Thank you. This brings the evening to a close. Thank you for coming.
2008/T30-6

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 08 Dec 2008 10:38

http://www.vijayvaa ni.com/FrmPublic DisplayArticle. aspx?id=268

Mumbai terror probe – silence of the conspirators
Radha Rajan
04 Dec 2008

There is a growing feeling among a small section of political commentators and the politically well-informed that there is a sinister silence in certain quarters of the media and Indian intelligentsia about core details of the Mumbai terror attack, even as the government undertakes a major cover-up operation and goes through the motions of conducting a hard-nosed investigation into the terror plot.

Almost as if to cover-up this silence, television channels are giving us an overdose of shrill women - socialites and film personalities, Bollywood's angry young and old men who saw in these TV discussions an opportunity to flaunt the secular credentials of the rich, famous and usually blasé Mumbaikar. These normally indifferent and bored rich Mumbaikars were shaken awake into the real world as jihadi terror, for the first time, made them victims of its malevolent attention.

You did not hear them screech and throw a tantrum abusing politicians on earlier occasions when the ordinary Mumbaikar and ordinary Indian was targeted in local trains, in crowded bazaars, and in temples where you will not see Sharmila Tagore or Shobhaa De, Mahesh Bhatt or Arjun Rampal, Ratna Pathak Shah and Tom Alter, Aamir Khan or Subhashini Khan.

They are all screeching now because jihadis struck their party and pleasure dens; and while they are usually a non-caring and self-absorbed lot, disturbed by nationalism and the passion of ordinary mortals who have not been spoilt by money and fame, this class took the opportunity to make a few shrill noises about the virtues of the politics of minority-ism; they also indulged in nauseating binges of diatribe against politicians in general. The religious minorities among the rich and the famous, and those of mixed marriages, remained conspicuously silent about the culpability of the Congress Party for the terror attack, but had no inhibitions about haranguing the BJP for lesser sins.

This group spoke about their insecurities, about their fears and anger, about politicians letting them down. But not one spoke about how this terror attack was an assault on the dignity of the nation, a violation of the sanctity of national borders, or how this was an attack on India's integrity and her self-identity. Not a word was uttered about concern for the nation, it was I, me, myself and my own all the way. While almost all of them waxed eloquent about safeguarding and protecting Christians and Muslims, no one was invited to speak for the Hindus. Barkha Dutt of course had a Muslim sitting prominently in her programme, and as usual she put her arms solicitously around the poor grieving man's shoulders. Simi Grewal's challenge that she would take people to show them localities in Mumbai, where inhabitants have raised the Pakistani flag all over, was exorcised the next day on the repeat show. The silence of the conspirators had begun.

The key to understanding how and why the terror attacks happened lies in the investigations into the Malegaon blasts and the character of Hemant Karkare, the chief of Maharashtra ATS; and it is on this issue that the silence of the media, the chatteratti, our verbose counter-terrorism experts, the Maharashtra Government and the UPA government in Delhi is most deafening. This resounding silence is a dead give-away that the really guilty have not resigned, have not been axed, and have not even been exposed. And that is why this silence is the silence of conspirators.

Hemant Karkare is dead allegedly while bravely fighting the terrorists, and so we may never know the truth. But we can connect the dots and the picture it makes causes grave disquiet. Some say he died of bullets to the chest, some say to the neck, some say bulletproof vests are useless against AK 47s and Kalashnikovs, while others say Karkare had removed his bulletproof vest and was killed when seated in his car.

Long before the Mumbai terror attack, I had expressed the view to two of my friends that the thrust of the investigations into the Malegaon blasts is not to find the accused guilty but to weaken any future BJP government's measures to deal with jihad, jihadis and religious conversion undertaken by Islam and the Church, and to question the government's motives. Whoever masterminded the investigations and was directing the ATS did not want any change in the public discourse on terror or on the issue of the basis of nationhood. The entire investigation had the following fall-out –

1) Bring disrepute to stringent laws like POTA by using a state law like the MCOCA against innocent Hindus, to demonstrate cynically and contemptuously to the RSS and the BJP that we have shown you how a law can be misused.

2) Bring disrepute to narco-analysis by forcing Hindus to discredit the method because Hindus perceived it as being used against Hindus, to arrest them allegedly on the basis of what they 'confessed' under the influence of psychotropic drugs.

3) Bring army intelligence agencies (Lt. Col. Purohit) into disrepute so that any action resulting from army intelligence against jihadis and jihad-sponsoring outfits and nations can be laid at the door of 'Hindu extremists' in the army.

4) The resultant disrepute is that the Indian Army is communalised and anti-Muslim by nature.

5) Label Hindu sadhus and sanyasis as terrorists so that any resistance from Hindu society to jihad and religious conversion may, in future, be labeled as acts of terror by "Sangh Parivar outfits". The national debate on Bangladeshi Muslims, the pan-national loyalty of all Muslims to the Ummah, and religious conversion, would thus conveniently acquire 'Hindu terror' dimensions.

6) Undermine people's faith in all institutions and organizations wielding great moral authority and influence, and this includes our police and armed forces.

To put it bluntly, the nature and direction of the Malegaon blasts investigation, which had become a witch-hunt for 'Hindu terrorists', was intended to weaken, defame and ultimately neutralise all centers of Hindu resistance to jihad and the evangelical church. The media has been reporting that Hemant Karkare died a very unhappy man. He is alleged to have expressed his deep unhappiness about 'political interference' into the Malegaon blasts investigations to two media persons of two English TV news channels. Karkare is also reported to have asked the then Maharashtra Home Minister R.R. Patil, on the very day he died, to be transferred out of the ATS. Such was his unhappiness.

We have it from one of the media persons who spoke to Karkare the day before he died that Karkare told him that over 90% of the ATS had been diverted into the Malegaon blasts probe. This witch-hunt for Hindu terrorists has all the hallmark of having been conceived in the mind of a strategist for the Congress party or it’s President, and who was probably himself/herself being manipulated by string-pullers located elsewhere. The questions and suspicions that come to our mind –

? The Times of India, dated 27 November 2008, page 11, reported that Hemant Karkare met the National Security Adviser (NSA) M.K. Narayanan in Delhi.

? When the Prime Minister refused to accept the NSA's resignation in the wake of the Mumbai terror attack, a functionary in the PMO declared that the NSA is "not expected to micro-manage national security".

? If that be so, why was the NSA taking such intense interest in the Malegaon blasts probe?

? Why did the NSA summon the ATS chief Karkare to Delhi unless it was to seek an explanation as to why the ATS failed to get custody of Sadhvi Pragya and Lt. Col. Purohit in the MCOCA court?

? Why was M.K. Narayanan so anxious to know why the accused Hindus will not continue to remain in ATS custody?

? If Karkare had seven years of experience in R&AW, almost all of them overseas appointments, why was he removed from R&AW and appointed chief of ATS?

? Who chose Karkare for the job and why was he chosen when he had little or no field experience in tackling terror in Mumbai?

? If Karkare was unhappy about political interference in the Malegaon blasts probe, why did he not resign instead of submitting to lead the ATS on a wild-goose-chase?

? If Karkare was heading the ATS, why did he not equip the ATS with battle-gear appropriate for fighting jihadis possessing sophisticated and contemporary arms, explosives and technology? After all, the city of Mumbai has always been the chosen target of jihadis, besides Hindu temples.

? Why was Shivraj Patil made Home Minister and why was he not removed until the very end when the UPA is on its way out of Delhi

? Who chose M.K. Narayanan as National Security Adviser when he had worked for the Ford Foundation funded American think-tank, Center for Security Analysis, just prior to his appointment?

We get the sinking feeling that the FBI and the Scotland Yard are here to "take charge" of the investigations only to make sure that their readings of all evidence will not point to Pakistan. The US and the UK need Pakistan for more reasons than one and it is my conjecture that their conclusions are going to be different from those of Indian investigating agencies. And M.K. Narayanan has been retained as NSA probably because this government wants to make sure that the FBI and Scotland Yard are unhindered in their dubious mission.

The UPA government too does not want war with Pakistan, jihad, jihadis or the evangelical church. The silence about why India permitted the non-reciprocal measure of foreign investigating agencies to come to India to "assist in the investigations" is also mystifying. While the media is going after Vilasrao Deshmukh, Achutanandan, Ram Gopal Verma and Shivraj Patil, it has kept its hands off the NSA. Who is pulling the media strings?

It remains to be seen if the BJP will deal differently with jihad and whether the BJP will probe the investigations into the Mumbai terror investigations with regard to the role of the ATS under Hemant Karkare and the NSA in allowing it to happen. It also remains to be seen if the BJP will be as relentless in its mission as those that set off the ATS on the hunt for Hindu terrorists.

Shivraj Patil was the least guilty among them all. The guiltiest will be the person who chose these people for these posts. This nation's critical voices about the freedom movement and the INC have been intimidated and threatened to silence; we will not allow the government to silence voices which are questioning the motives of those who instigated and masterminded the Malegaon blasts probe which this writer believes was the single most important reason why the UPA government, the NSA and the Maharashtra ATS looked away from jihad, jihadis and jihadi outfits at home and across the border.

Pakistan is guilty, and guilty are the jihadis, but guiltier are those who abused their power to misuse state instruments for vested interests, endangering in the process the nation's borders and the security of its citizens.

The author is Editor. http://www.vigilonline.com

kobe · Post by **kobe** » 08 Dec 2008 11:03

NRao wrote:
....The driving force is the spread of their Faith.....

if the reason was so innocent and pure, there would be no problem. the many driving forces for pakistani terrorism around the world are

- loss of identity (most pakis identify themselves as "indians" to the unsuspecting goras)
- feeling of isolation
- acute knowledge of futility in the very founding of pakistan
- laughing stock of the world (paki army repeatedly surrendering)
- revengeful culture
- tribal mentality
- fkucked up religious beliefs
- feeling of repeatedly getting raped and dumped own uncle-sam
- economic failure, agricultural failure, industrial failure
- even worse politicians than india (how bad can that be)
- dictators even worse than politicians
- ISI recruiiting crooks to religious fervor
- talk of eating grass in order to get the bomb turning into reality and finding out that grass does not taste good at all
- arch rival india progressing (slowly but) steadily
- arch rival india truly open secular stable democracy
- arch rival india improving relations with usa /china /israel /middle-east (just about everyone)
- surrender prone paki military suddenly discovering that its easier to kill unarmed innocent civilians than to fight real soldiers
- nuclear blackmail brings short term safety net

these are the reasons pakistani government and military are spreading terror around the world

SK Mody · Post by **SK Mody** » 08 Dec 2008 11:44

I got the following url in my mail:
STRATFOR-strategic_motivations_mumbai_attack
Please comment.

GopalVaidya · Post by **GopalVaidya** » 08 Dec 2008 12:59

Amber G. wrote:Chicago Tribune's Kim Barker confirms Observer, Guadian and McClatchy Newspapers' reporter story - The story is further confirmed by NawasSharif .

Here is the link:
Mumbai attacker linked to Pakistani village

This information is now publicly available for 2 days. Yet, not one of the Pakistani TV or papers have done any investigation. Their papers continue to churn out articles where they just keep ignoring the mass of evidence that has now built up. Their president himself had declared that the captured terrorist was not from Pakistan. It's nation completely lacking in decency or integrity.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 08 Dec 2008 13:19

Foil conspiracy of foreign forces: YSR

Special Correspondent

HYDERABAD: Andhra Pradesh Chief Minister Y. S. Rajasekhara Reddy urged all the political parties in the State to unite and foil the conspiracy of the foreign forces to disturb the peace in the country.

“If we continue to fight among ourselves, our prestige will be lowered,” Dr. Reddy remarked while interacting with a group of elected representatives here on Sunday, a day ahead of the five-day winter session of the State Legislative Assembly. “We are at a very crucial juncture where the foreign forces have challenged our peace. In the interest of the development of the country and the State, I request all parties to come on a common platform to fight these forces,” he added.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 08 Dec 2008 13:52

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/08m ... ds-key.htm

Suspected Lashkar-e-Tayiba terrorist Fahim Ansari is the key to cracking the Mumbai terror attack case, investigators believe.

Ansari who was arrested in connection with the Fidayeen attack on the Central Reserve Police Force camp at Rampur on January 1, has given out a lot of details regarding the Mumbai terror plot.

Uttar Pradesh [Images] police, who have been questioning him once again since the November 26-29 attack, say the man was aware of the attack and had played a major role in plotting it.

The police say he will be the key to ascertaining whether there was Indian participation.

During the latest round of interrogation, the UP police have found that Ansari had touched base with Tausif Rehman and Mukthar Ahmed Sheikh and had asked them to get SIM cards. The brief was for the two men to buy the SIM cards and pass it on to the men who finally carried out the Mumbai terror attack.

The two were asked to get 20 SIM cards, which they finally did by producing fake documents.

Further, Ansari said during his interrogation that he helped operatives of the Lashkar gather video footage of the targets in Mumbai and also helped in gathering route information for the terrorists.

This gives an indication that Ansari had slipped into India in 2007 and had reconnoitered Mumbai before he went back to UP and carried out the Rampur attack.

Intelligence Bureau sources told rediff.com that the Rampur attack could have been a precursor to the Mumbai attack. The Lashkar had planned on carrying out the Mumbai attack in September itself and the Rampur attack was meant to act as a distraction for the bigger attack.

However, there was a change in plan following the arrest of Ansari and others. With Ansari spilling out the details of the attack, the Lashkar-e-Tayiba was forced to postpone the Mumbai attack.

All the 24 men who had trained for the Mumbai attack were asked to stay back in Pakistan and leave at a later date.

Ansari was arrested in February. During the first round of interrogation, he had revealed specifically that the Lashkar had planned on targeting Mumbai.

However, none of the investigating agencies had taken him seriously and chose to ignore the open warning that he had sounded. The map which showed details of the Mumbai attack was also buried under the charge sheet with none taking it seriously.

The IB says it had sounded off a warning based on the intelligence received by them and also on the statements made by Ansari. However the warnings were ignored stating that the intelligence was not actionable.

The Mumbai police, who have sought Ansari's custody, are however non-committal on why they ignored the inputs based on Ansari's statements.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 08 Dec 2008 14:21

Gen Hamid Gul appeared on CNN's GPS, today. It was chilling to listen to him.

Fareed Zakari introduced him as the

"former head of Pakistan's elusive intellignece service, the man who is said to have created the Taliban, Hamid Gul . . .
his name is one of the 4 names US has given to United Nations of ISI officers they would like to place on an international terrorist list."

Gen Gul's position on Afghanistan -- "... my position is that Americans have aggresses in Afghanistan. And who ever is resisting, the resistance there is justifiable."

THEN, he raged on:

"ZAKARIA: What is your hunch as to who did - who perpetrated the 9/11 attacks?

GUL: Well, I have been on record, and I said it is the Zionists or (ph) the neocons. They have done it. It was an inside job.

And they wanted to go on the world conquerors. They were looking upon it as an opportunity window, when the Muslim world was lying prostrate. Russia was nowhere in sight. China was still not an economic giant that is has turned out to be.

And they thought that this was a good time to go and fill (ph) those strategic areas, which are still lying without any American presence. And, of course, to control the energy tap of the world.

Presently, it is the Middle East, and in future it is going to be Central Asia. So, there are many, many XX. And, of course ...

ZAKARIA: But you think ...

GUL: ... XX.

ZAKARIA: But you think who would be ...

GUL: That's what I also think, yes.

ZAKARIA: Who is at the heart of - who do you think was at the heart of plotting 9/11?

GUL: At the - it's very difficult, really. I wouldn't point my finger at it.

But I think it was planned in America. And at least one knows that it was done in Germany, as far as the reports go.

But I think the heart of planning was inside America, because the job was done there. But not a single person so far has been captured, caught, interrogated inside America, even though this entire episode took place there.

ZAKARIA: But you've said that the people behind it were the Zionists, neocon conspiracy. Do you mean by that American Jews? Do you mean Israel?

GUL: No Israel. I will not - because Jews are also divided into - not all Jews are bad. Of course, there are a lot of things common between Jews and Muslims.

In fact, they are the closest to us religion-wise, because some of their scriptures are respected by us. Their prophets are our prophets. They have the injunctions in Torah are very much similar to injunctions in the Holy Quran. So, there are things which are very common.

But there are those people who are very ambitious, who have a certain agenda of their own. And I think they have turned the world upside-down, because of those ambitions or their fears.

So, fear and ambitions are two things which have come together as far as Zionists are concerned. And they are trying to drive the policies of America. And unfortunately, the American people are suffering because of that."

It was chilling, scary, and . . .

THIS WAS THE FORMER LEADER OF THE PAKISTAN ISI, WHO SET THE AGENDA, AND TRAINED THE REST OF THE ISI.

http://moinansari.files.wordpress.com/2 ... nroads.jpg

narayana · Post by **narayana** » 08 Dec 2008 14:27

its reported in some parts of media that Former ISI cheif Hamid Gul will be arrested and handed over to india.
its impossible he is a very important person and handled lots of covert operations,he may have many things to tell which will end in TSP officially declared terrorist state, most probably he and other LET guys will be arrested and put in House arrest.and if pressure mounts a lot then TSP may hand over few KLF leaders.but they wont hand over or crackdown on LET etc.

Mumbai attacks: Ex-ISI chief Gul terms Post report 'nonsense'

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 08 Dec 2008 14:45

"A very big deal",as this Dawn columnist says,no point in Pak trying to deny or evade responsibility for the terror attacks and its involvement,as nobody will buy it.As for Hamid Gul being arrested,this is a hilarious scenario,even if ever attempted,will be another AQ Khan tamasha.

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/mazdak.htm

A very big deal

By Irfan Husain

OFTEN, a gambler who is down to his last pile of chips will bet them all on a worthless hand in a bluff to recover his losses.

Pakistan looked a bit like this desperate poker player when the government announced that it would pull its troops out of the tribal area, where they are engaging Taliban insurgents, in case India moved elements of its army close to the border.

Our soldiers are fighting a dangerous enemy because of an existential threat Pakistan faces in this area, and not because we are doing anybody any favours. But by raising the spectre of an open, undefended border, Pakistan is effectively posing an indirect threat to American and Nato forces in Afghanistan. This implied threat, the government hopes, will cause Washington to bring pressure to bear on New Delhi to stop any escalation of the situation. But the United States has little leverage in India, and currently there is a lot of sympathy for the loss of innocent lives India has suffered during the recent terror attacks in Mumbai.

Years ago, a western diplomat wrote that Pakistan was the only country in the world that negotiates with a gun to its own head. Our argument, long familiar to aid donors, goes something like this: If you don’t give us what we need, the government will collapse and this might result in anarchy, and a takeover by Islamic militants. Left unstated here is the global risk these elements would pose as they would have access to Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal.

We have been getting away with this argument for a long time, mainly because a failed, fragmented Pakistan is everybody’s worst nightmare. There are still Pakistanis around, in and out of uniform, who seriously believe that India secretly would like to see the break-up of their country. They need to wake up to reality. Many Indians have written to me, saying that they are glad India was partitioned in 1947, so it now has fewer Muslims to deal with. More to the point, the last thing India wants is to share a common border with Afghanistan. The turmoil there is unlikely to end anytime soon, and our army would be of far more use on that border, dealing with the militant threat.

While defending Pakistan recently, our foreign minister was quoted as saying that we were a “responsible state”. And when India presented our government with a list of the names of 20 people accused of terrorism against our neighbour, spokesmen immediately demanded to see the proof against them. This legalistic approach would have carried more weight had the Pakistani state shown this kind of respect for the rule of law in the past. But given the frequency with which ordinary Pakistanis are picked up and ‘disappeared’ by organs of the state without any vestige of due process, the claim to responsibility rings a little hollow.

Indeed, a responsible state would hardly allow the likes of Maulana Masood Azhar of the Jaish-i-Mohammad; Hafiz Saeed of the Lashkar-i-Taiba; and the Indian criminal Dawood Ibrahim to run around loose. Every time the West raises a hue and cry following a particularly vicious terrorist attack, a few militant leaders and their followers are picked up, only to be released once the furore has died down. This sends a clear signal to the security agencies that these terrorists are above the law. So why should they risk their lives arresting them, only to see them being released a few weeks later?

A Google search for terrorist groups in Pakistan reveals an appalling who’s who of killers, together with the incidents they have been involved in. Going over this bloody history made me realise just how deeply rooted this problem is in Pakistan. Ever since Gen Zia encouraged the establishment of sectarian and ethnic terror groups, we have witnessed a mushroom growth of terrorism over the last two decades. And since many of these groups have supported military governments from time to time, they have acquired important links in officialdom, as well as with some politicians.

But above all, these groups have been important pawns in the army’s proxy wars in Afghanistan and Kashmir. Now, having gained prominence as well as financial support, they are not going to disarm and go home just because their existence has become an embarrassment to the Pakistani establishment. It is important to remember that there is now a lot of money flowing into the coffers of these groups. Leaders drive around openly in expensive SUVs, while the rank and file are fairly well paid. These are all people who are not qualified to get the meanest of jobs under normal circumstances.

The existence of these dangerous groups, and the impunity with which they have been operating for two decades, all serve to underline the steady meltdown of the Pakistani state. Instead of treating the cancer of terrorism as a law and order issue, the army has viewed it as a political and military opportunity. Lacking legitimacy and a constituency, both Zia and Musharraf depended on religious groups for support. These parties, in turn, gave militants cover. Thus, the Islamic coalition of the MMA allowed the Taliban to flourish when they governed the Frontier province between 2002 and 2007. We are now struggling with the fallout of their policies.

As we are caught up in this vortex of ideology and violence, we often shoot ourselves in the foot. For instance, when Prime Minister Gilani declared that he would send the head of the ISI to India, this move was widely welcomed. All too soon, however, the reality of the power balance in Pakistan raised its ugly head, and the offer was withdrawn. Clearly, the army did not relish one of its own being placed on the mat in New Delhi. Nevertheless, the instinct was the right one, and had the PM been able to prevail, General Pasha’s mere presence in India could have helped defuse much of the tension.

Many Pakistanis have become so accustomed to terrorist attacks on their soil that they have forgotten that this is not the norm elsewhere. Instead of asking “What’s the big deal?” they should be putting themselves in the place of the victims. If, as seems very likely, the group that attacked Mumbai was trained and armed by the Pakistan-based Lashkar-i-Taiba, it is a very big deal indeed.

Late news:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/de ... acks-india

Pakistan arrests Mumbai mastermind, reports sayZaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, named by sole surviving attacker as ringleader, held in raid on militant camp in Pakistani Kashmir
Haroon Siddique

guardian.co.uk, Monday December 8 2008 08.41 GMT

The suspected planner of last month's Mumbai terror attacks has been arrested in a raid on a militant group in Pakistan, an official close to the extremist organisation said today.

The official from Jamaat-ud-Dawa (JuD), the charity and education arm of the terrorist group Lashkar-e-Taiba, told Reuters that Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi was among four men taken into custody after a raid yesterday on a camp outside Muzaffarabad, the capital of Pakistani Kashmir.

Lakhvi, one of Lashkar's operations chiefs, was named as a ringleader in the Mumbai plot by Ajmal Amir Kasab, the lone surviving gunmen captured after the attacks, according to Indian officials

There has been no official confirmation of the raid but Pakistani intelligence officers told Reuters six men were arrested. No names were given. The Associated Press reported that more than 12 people were arrested.

The operation is the first known action by Islamabad in response to the attacks, which sharply raised tensions between Pakistan and India.

Troops briefly exchanged fire with people at the camp and several injured people were being treated at a military hospital, AP reported.

The attacks in Mumbai, which began on November 26, left 163 people dead. Indian police say 10 gunmen were responsible.

neelkamal · Post by **neelkamal** » 08 Dec 2008 14:54

NGO helping Mumbai victims, just in case you want to pass it along - you can donate in USD, etc also, tax exempt. They also display names along with amount donated in the webpage.

http://www.giveindia.org/t-help-mumbai.aspx

http://www.giveindia.org/Donatefromigiv ... HelpMumbai

The following web link also links to the giveindia link when you click on donate. Just for your information as to where the money is going and who is helping:
http://helpmumbai.pinstorm.com/

Also contrary to what I thought, 50% are from lower class so they badly need help.
http://www.kiritsomaiya.com/mediacentre ... 0nov08.htm

26/11 terrorist attack has claimed 183 dead including 22 foreigners and around 295 injured. Of this, 130 victims were admitted at J.J. Hospital , out of which 23 have been discharged, rest 107 are still at JJ. More than 50% of these belong to the lower class.

cnureddy · Post by **cnureddy** » 08 Dec 2008 15:16

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7770455.stm

Pakistan 'crackdown on militants'

Pakistan is under intense pressure to act against militants
Pakistan's armed forces have moved against a camp used by banned militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba in Pakistani-administered Kashmir.

Witnesses heard several loud explosions and saw a helicopter and dozens of army personnel at the scene.

A BBC correspondent said the camp was sealed off, but Pakistani officials did not confirm its capture. India says the group is linked to the Mumbai attacks.

Pakistan is under pressure from India and the US to act against the group.

Reports said a number of people were arrested.

One of those held was a Lashkar-e-Taiba operational chief wanted in India, an official from the militant-linked charity that runs the camp told Reuters news agency, but this has not been confirmed by Pakistani officials.

Feared group

The camp, at Shawai on the outskirts of Muzaffarabad, is run by the Islamic charity Jamaat-ud-Dawa, widely seen as a front for Lashkar-e-Taiba, which was itself banned in 2002.

Witnesses say the raid began on Sunday afternoon.

"I don't know details as the entire area was sealed off but I heard two loud blasts in the evening after a military helicopter landed there," local resident Nisar Ali told Reuters news agency.

Local residents said the army blew up buildings at the camp, which has an office, religious school and a residential area housing about 150 people.

The BBC's Zulfikar Ali, in Muzaffarabad, said he was unable to reach the camp because of the cordon, but did see about 14 army vehicles leaving the area.

The Associated Press news agency quoted militants as saying the camp had been seized by the military.

Profile: Lashkar-e-Taiba

Islamabad denies any involvement in the Mumbai attacks which left at least 170 people dead, but some of the gunmen are said to have had links to Pakistani militants.

Indian investigators have said that the only gunman captured in Mumbai, Azam Amir Qasab, had been indoctrinated by Lashkar-e-Taiba, and trained at a camp run by the group.

Lashkar-e-Taiba (Soldiers of the Pure) is one of the most feared groups fighting against Indian control in Kashmir.

Although the authorities in Pakistan formally banned it six years ago and curbed its activities, analysts say its camps were never closed.

The New York Times, in a report on Monday quoting unidentified US intelligence officials, said that Pakistan's main spy service had allowed the group to train and raise funds in recent years.

The Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI, had shared intelligence with the group and protected it, the report said, but there was no evidence linking the ISI to the Mumbai attacks.

The raid on the camp followed growing pressure from both India and the US on the Pakistani government to act.

Last week, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice urged Islamabad to mount a "robust" and "effective" response to the attacks in Mumbai.

The assault will defuse tensions in the short-term, reports the BBC's Barbara Plett from Islamabad, but both Washington and Delhi will be looking to see how far the Pakistani action goes.