MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

JTull
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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby JTull » 04 Dec 2008 17:20

i see. thx
Last edited by JTull on 04 Dec 2008 19:47, edited 1 time in total.

pmund
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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby pmund » 04 Dec 2008 18:49

I'd appreciate it if you didnt jump to conclusions that i "left" the military

HariC
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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby HariC » 04 Dec 2008 23:23

Lot of details on the death of the Major
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/lack- ... fe/393856/

Lack of communication device may have cost Major his life
RAGHVENDRA RAO
NEW DELHI,

THE death of Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan, team commander of the 51 SAG of the National Security Guard (NSG) involved in hunting down terrorists at the Taj, has brought into focus the availability and tactical use of communication equipment by the Black Cats.
As the NSG begins to deconstruct the 60-hour operations at three locations in Mumbai, a key finding that is emerging relates to the fact that Major Unnikrishnan probably ended up compromising hispositionbyaudiblycommunicatingwithhismenwhowerenotcarrying any communication devices.

The Major himself was wired up with a VOX (voice operated switch) system that kept him in constant touch with the leaders of other teams involved in the operation. A VOX system picks up even a whisper from a user, and enables him to speak and listen without having to use his hands.

However, as per standard NSG operating procedures, no member ofhisthree-man“hitteam”hadany kind of radio communication device on his person.

Just before he was hit, Major Unnikrishnan had managed to push one of his injured commandos — a havaldar — to safety by arranging for his evacuation in the middle of a fierce gunbattle. Then, as he tried to chase the terrorists, a grenade was lobbed at his team.

“Following the grenade explosion, the Major got separated from his team but instead of coming down, he followed the terrorists to another floor upstairs. There, he found himself caught in a cloud of smoke, and wanted to tell his team not to come up,” a senior NSG official told The Indian Express.

Since his men had no communications devices, the Major had no way other than to call out loud.

The assumption now being made is that by doing so, he revealed his position and let the terrorists know he was probably alone in their midst. NSGofficialssaidthat not providing VOX sets to team membershasbeenatacticaldecision. “Ahitteamusuallyhasfivemembers who are not supposed to engage in anyverbalcommunicationwitheach other.Sincetheyhavetobetogether at all times, the only way they communicate is through gestures. So, onlytheteamleaderisprovidedwith VOX so that he can communicate with other team leaders and operationcommanders,”saidanofficial.

Officials added that it had been observed during training that equipping all team members with communication devices led to confusion and distractions.

Another key issue being actively discussed now relates to procuring state of the art communications equipment to replace the “cumbersome” radio sets that commandos currently use. “We use a wireless set which is clipped on to the belt and is connected to the earphone and the microphone with a wire assembly. The VOX equipment is also attached to this wire,” an official explained.

“Nowadays, there are wireless technologies available where all one requires is a small ear-plug and a microphone. We have such sets but having more of them will surely help,” said a commando who was involved in the Mumbai operations said.
Last edited by HariC on 05 Dec 2008 01:03, edited 1 time in total.

cbelwal

Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby cbelwal » 05 Dec 2008 01:29

Marcos didn't wait for written request: Navy

http://broadband.indiatimes.com/toishow ... 793463.cms

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby Raja Bose » 05 Dec 2008 02:04

pmund,

Thanks! Now I know that I read it before....the article was very nicely written.

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby Raja Bose » 05 Dec 2008 05:38

Who is this Havaldar Chandar I keep hearing as the 3rd NSG KIA during Mumbai ops? Quite a few news sources quote it but I think it seems to be a DDM rumour which started last Friday (or probably they got the name wrong....Chandar instead of Bisht) but some doofuses at wikipedia seem to be hell bent on proving there was a 3rd NSG KIA despite the fact that the NSG director-general confirmed that only 2 NSG were KIA (Unni and Gajender Singh Bisht). Anybody have any info re. this?

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby Aditya G » 05 Dec 2008 08:41

X-posting

cbelwal wrote:Marcos didn't wait for written request: Navy

http://broadband.indiatimes.com/toishow ... 793463.cms

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby JTull » 05 Dec 2008 14:54

खून के आंसू रो रहा है एनएसजी का एक अफसर

नई दिल्ली : मुंबई में हुए आतंकवादियों के हमले में घायल हुए एनएसजी के एक अफसर कैप्टन ए. के. सिंह को इस बात का अफसोस है कि वह गोली खाकर मर क्यों नहीं गए।

एनएसजी का यह जांबाज अधिकारी 27 नवम्बर को ओबेरॉय होटेल में आतंकवादियों से लोहा लेने के लिए घुसा था। उन्हें भनक लगी थी कि 18 वीं मंजिल पर एक कमरे में आतंकवादी हैं। एनएसजी के कमांडोज़ ने दरवाजे को विस्फोट से उड़ा दिया। लेकिन जैसे ही कैप्टन ए. के. सिंह कमरे के भीतर घुसकर कार्रवाई करने वाले थे आतंकवादियों ने ग्रेनेड फेंक दिया।

कैप्टन सिंह उस धमाके की चपेट में आ गए और पूरे शरीर पर छर्रे लगने के कारण वह बेहोश हो गए। उन्हें बॉम्बे अस्पताल लाया गया जहां उनके शरीर में धंसे सभी छर्रे निकाल दिए गए लेकिन एक छर्रा नहीं निकल पाया जो बायीं आंख में चला गया था। मुंबई हमले से निपटने के लिए लगाए गए एनएसजी के कमांडो में से एक अधिकारी मेजर संदीप उन्नीकृष्णन शहीद हो गए जबकि घायल कैप्टन सिंह की अब कोई सुध लेने वाला नहीं है।

एनएसजी की टीम दिल्ली लौट गयी और कैप्टन सिंह अस्पताल में हैं। उनकी आंख से अब भी खून बह रहा है। उनकी आंख को इस कदर नुकसान पहुंचा है कि अब कोई दानदाता भी पुतली दे दे तब भी ठीक नहीं हो सकती। कैप्टन सिंह के एक मित्र ने बताया कि यह अधिकारी बेहतर इलाज चाहता है और वह सेना में वापस जाकर सेवाएं देना की इच्छा रखता है।

लेकिन उन्हें तसल्ली देने के लिए एनएसजी का भी कोई अधिकारी मौजूद नहीं है। उनके माता-पिता को सूझ नहीं रहा है कि वे करें तो क्या करें। सेना की जिस बटालियन से यह अधिकारी एनएसजी में आया था उसके कमांडिंग आफिसर ने अभी तक उनसे मुलाकात तक करना जरूरी नहीं समझा। एक अधिकारी के अनुसार जब इस मामले को सेना के शीर्ष अधिकारी की जानकारी में लाया गया तो उन्होंने कुछ मदद करने के बजाए यह हिदायतें जारी कर दीं कि वह मीडिया को इंटरव्यू न दें और कोई बयान भी जारी नहीं करें।

सेना के एक अधिकारी ने बताया कि मजबूत कद काठी के कैप्टन ए. के. सिंह ने एनएसजी में जाने की इच्छा जाहिर की थी और उन्हें इसी साल वहां भेजा गया था।

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby pmund » 05 Dec 2008 19:47

Thanks Raja!! Least i could do for Unni

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby K Mehta » 05 Dec 2008 20:09

pmund,
nice written article, its a gem by toi standards.
I dont know if I am even worth to condole his death, please convey my condolences to his friends and family.

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby Raja Bose » 07 Dec 2008 03:44

A very interesting first hand experience article from NSG commandos with some of their humour thrown in (Outlook). Also silences fan boys complaining of lack of TI/NVG etc. Also notice the 'unofficial' involvement of an off-duty 21 para (SF) officer!

Link courtesy of Sanjay and Pranay (X-posted from Special Forces Thread).

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20081215&fname=BNSG+%28F%29&sid=1&pn=2

Bullets For Broadway

It was the longest rescue operation in the nearly 25 years of existence of the National Security Guard, or NSG. Battling rather skewed odds, the commandos engaged eight highly trained terrorists entrenched in tactically superior positions. In a 51-hour battle to take back three key landmarks of Mumbai, they killed all eight and lost two of their own. This is their story.

00:30

November 27.
NSG complex, Manesar, Gurgaon, near Delhi

It was half past midnight when Lt Colonel R.K. Sharma received a call asking him to report to the office pronto. Sharma, a Gurkha Rifles officer on deputation to the NSG's 51st Special Action Group (SAG), knew what the call meant. Mumbai was under attack and this was a call to arms and in the next 30 minutes—the time allotted to the SAG to fully mobilise—he would be on the move. Like Sharma, scores of other officers were also receiving similar calls across the sprawling NSG complex in Manesar.

A few minutes before Sharma received the call, Union home secretary Madhukar Gupta had called the NSG DG J.K. Dutt, asking him to mobilise his troops. Gupta, in turn, was responding to an SOS from the Maharashtra chief secretary. Which, in turn, was prompted by a meticulously executed attack. After coming in by sea and disembarking at two points along the Mumbai coast, the terrorists had broken up into five teams and headed out to their pre-planned targets. At 9.21 pm, two of them opened fire at the crowded Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST) and 20 minutes later another team sprayed bullets at guests chilling out at the Leopold Cafe, killing 10.

The 51 SAG, specialists in building intervention operations, is a mixed lot of fighting men drawn from diverse arms of the Indian army. In command was Special Forces officer Colonel Sunil Sheoran, twice decorated for gallantry.

02:30

November 27.
Palam Technical Area, New Delhi

By 2.45 am, 200 officers and men of the SAG gathered at the Palam technical area adjoining the Delhi airport where an IL-76 from raw's aviation research centre was warming up on the tarmac. Landing at 5.15 am in Mumbai, the commandos quickly got into the vehicles waiting on the tarmac—trucks, BEST buses, jeeps—just about anything the Mumbai police had managed to lay their hands on that morning.

06:20

November 27.
The Taj Hotel and The Oberoi-Trident, Mumbai

When the commandos arrived at the two locations, the terrorists were already being engaged by the navy's elite Special Forces, the Marine Commandos (MARCOS) which had been called in from INS Abhimanyu, their base just off the coast of Mumbai. Forty-five members of MARCOS divided into two teams were rushed in after an SOS from a desperate Maharashtra government to Vice-Admiral J.S. Bedi of the Western Naval Command seeking help to evacuate the trapped guests at the Taj and Oberoi. From 2 am, till the SAG arrived and took over, the navy commandos held ground and tried to isolate the terrorists.

The SAG quickly swung into action. Major Bharat Singh, a squadron commander, was asked to take in one team (25 men) into the Oberoi-Trident. A similar team led by Lt Col Sharma also went in. Both were under the tactical command of Col B.S. Rathee, deputy force commander of the SAG contingent. "The hotel staff gave us maps of the building and we had footage from a 21 Para (SF) officer on leave. We moved in from the fire exits and climbed up to the 21st floor," says an officer involved in the Oberoi operation.

Not sure about where the terrorists were holed up, the commandos took the 'top-to-bottom' approach for a dominating view and a better field of fire—critical in a close quarters battle.

Armed with their German Heckler & Koch MP-5 submachine guns, the men began a room-by-room search of the Oberoi-Trident. Recalls a commando, part of the first team that went into the building, with wry humour: "We thought if the hostages were locked in, that was good. If the terrorists had locked themselves in, that was a bad call."

09:30

November 27.
Taj Hotel

Meanwhile, near the Gateway the NSG commandos took over operations in the new wing of the Taj from the MARCOS. Called the Taj Tower, the naval commandos had already evacuated 300 guests.
"We sent in two teams, one under Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan and another under Major Kanwal. The SAG teams began to push the terrorists back through a connecting corridor to the Taj Palace while guests were moved out from all possible exits," an officer who took part


"We became so good at hand signals that we are now planning a dumb charades team of our own."

in the operation told Outlook. By 10 am, a fresh plane-load of commandos had taken off from Palam as reinforcements for Mumbai.

14:00

November 27.
Oberoi-Trident

Back at the Trident, the commandos combing the rooms made "first contact" with the terrorists on the 18th floor. "There was a barrage of automatic gunfire...we quickly fanned out and returned fire," says a commando. As the battle raged, the terrorists backed into Room 1856 and kept up a steady fire to keep the SAG men at bay. Col B.S. Rathee slipped into the adjoining room under intense fire to set up a tactical command centre. At times the commandos would fire up their HHTIS (Hand Held Thermal Imagers) to locate the terrorists. It worked at times, and at times it didn't.

"We kept firing, threw in a few grenades but figured out that the terrorists were hiding in the bath tub. They returned fire and injured Major Saurav Shah. Saurav went on the RT (radio transmission) that he was bleeding and losing consciousness. We immediately did an evac (evacuation)". Another bullet whizzed past Major Bharat, taking off a bit of his left ear. (Soon after the operation at the Trident concluded a colleague fished out a get-well card with this cheeky message: "Enjoy life since it's too short. Just two inches short!")

14:40

November 27.
Taj Hotel (Heritage Wing)

Col Sheoran, who had tactical command of the operations at the Taj hotel, was getting worried. While earlier estimates had indicated two terrorists, his men reported four. "Some of the terrorists were using a ladder between the restaurant on the top and a bar below to keep switching between floors. We homed in on their position and began to pin them down. Our prime concern was to keep all the trapped guests in one place so that we could evac them," an officer told Outlook. The commandos had to break down doors finger on the trigger, hoping to meet scared guests but ready for terrorists, just in case. The effort became tougher since the master electronic key to the hotel rooms was not functioning. "The shockwaves from the grenade blasts had rendered them useless so we just cracked the doors down."

Back at the Oberoi-Trident, the terrorists were exchanging abuse with the commandos. Recalls an SAG commando: "One of them started abusing Lt Col Sharma saying they would f*** his mother. We shouted back that we would do the same to him to provoke him into exposing himself." As the operation continued, an old joke was recounted: "All terrorists will eventually meet God. It's our job to fix an appointment for them!"

Incidentally, the commandos had to fall back on a bit of ingenuity to solve the hiccups hampering operations.

Since radio batteries had gone dead, they communicated with each other using sign language and 'playacting'. At other times, some would run down all 21 floors to get the ready-to-eat meals, or replace the depleting batteries for their RT sets. "We became so good at hand signals that we are planning to team up with Col Rathee for a dumb charades team!"

07:45

November 28.
Nariman House

By nightfall on Thursday the SAG teams had figured out that Nariman House would be the trickiest to deal with. With limited entry points available, the squadrons had to take an aerial route to storm the building. On the 28th morning, an IAF helicopter hovered overhead as the commandos slithered down to the roof of the building. Intercepts of the terrorist communication had already revealed that the hostages were all dead. The commandos smashed their way into the building with suppressing fire from the terrace while their snipers gave covering fire. The SAG team killed two terrorists after a fierce gunbattle only to discover the decomposed bodies of the Israeli rabbi couple and their guests.

09:10 to 18:00

November 29.
Taj Hotel (Heritage Wing)

Throughout Friday night, the battle for the Taj continued to rage. The terrorists were firing intermittently while playing a deadly game of hide and seek. Earlier in the operation, the SAG team suffered a major loss when Major Unnikrishnan, chasing a terrorist along with havildar Yadav, came under fire. Yadav was hit and Sandeep immediately pulled him out, cautioned his colleagues to pull back and bounded up the stairs after the terrorists and engaged them in battle. He succumbed to their bullets.

Meanwhile the operation dragged on. Recalls a commando: "The terrorists would continuously run between floors and we kept chasing them." Finally, isolating them on the first floor, the final assault began early on November 29. Lobbing a few grenades, the SAG team rushed the room where the last terrorist was holing up for several hours. As the bullets hit him, he was pushed back against the window and he tumbled out and fell on the road below. Nearly 61 hours after the first shot had been fired by the terrorists, the operation was finally over and the commandos had won back the Taj hotel, inch by inch.

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby Jagan » 07 Dec 2008 04:45

Actually a couple of blog posts - but has some details of NSG ops so please post them elsewhere if needed. The Author is Air Marshal SY Savur (Retd) (As you can make out from the URL)

http://sysavur.blogspot.com/2008/12/ple ... sions.html
Dear Prime Minister,

I admire you hugely for all that you have done for the Indian economy and for many things that you have done for India since becoming the PM. Today, I watch is despair the terrorist attack inspired frenzy of promises and assurances of action. I plead for sanity, clear thought and an action plan that is not only effective but also long-term.

I plead with you; do not be tempted to take knee-jerk, short term decisions without considering their long term implications just because you want to be seen as a man of action. In the nearly 5 years you headed the Govt, you took time to even think that there is need for counter-terror mechanisms, so a few days more will not be of substantial loss unless you have the General Elections 2009 in your sights.

I plead with you not to disperse the Special Action Group (SAG), the counter-terror arm of the NSG to the four metros. Have you heard about the Special Air Service (SAS), counter-terror fighting unit of the UK being dispersed even though it fights all over the world?

If you heed some opinion and disperse the SAG please consider the following: -

Centralised training ensures that standards are the highest and the same for every man in the SAG. Dispersal would mean that training standards and maintenance of equipment would be diluted because different people train differently in different circumstances. And there will be temptation to provide one unit more/better equipment because some one will tell you that the perception of terrorist threat there is more than elsewhere.

If at all you want to place the SAG in a place where it can reach any corner of India then please consider Nagpur. It is equidistant in terms of flying duration from the 4 metros as well as the large cities of Ahmedabad, Bangalore and Hyderabad.

Nagpur’s Sonegaon airport is not the busiest of airports and the IAF base there has an IL-76 squadron which can make available its aircraft. It is better to utilise the large open spaces for setting up a training facility than making an air cargo hub that nobody will use.

While on this topic of aircraft, please ensure that more than six IL-76 are serviceable at any time by providing them the spares that they badly need. You know that one of the reasons that the SAG was delayed was because the IL-76 became unserviceable and the SAG had to be flown in by An-32 (not because the IL-76 is slower than the B-737 or the Airbus). Come to think of it, why wasn’t an Air India Airbus used?

Please make the MoS-cum-National Security Adviser (NSA) just a MoS. Let the MoS handle the political requirements, which Prabhu Chawla said was herding MPs to support the Govt in July 2008.

The NSA should head the National Security Agency (not the National Security Council which is top heavy and hence unable to take quick decisions or react to any crisis). The NSA should be a serving officer selected from amongst the (in alphabetical order so that I don’t step on some corns) Deputy Chief of Defence Staff (Intelligence), Director of the IB and the Secretary, R & AW. The post should be held on a rotational basis for a fixed tenure of 3 years.

Please make the Director IB, Deputy Chief of Defence Staff (Intelligence) and Secretary R & AW answerable to the NSA for collection, collation, analysis and dissemination of intelligence.

Please make every State’s ADGP (Intelligence) responsible to the NSA for ensuring action and feedback on the intelligence inputs supplied to the States.

Please place an embargo on any intelligence or police authority talking to the Press or leaking information when an operation is in progress; better still till prosecution of the apprehended terrorist or completion of investigation in case of deceased terrorists is over. It will help by not providing the terrorist set up or leaders so that the SAG can complete its job.

Please tell the media that by giving breathless descriptions and broadcasting TV pictures they are actually helping the terrorists and their outfits know where the counter-terror SAG persons are and what they are doing. I shudder to think whether the terrorists were watching TV channels (and surfing them too) to know what was going on to help them play “hide and shoot” with the SAG.

The leadership of the LeT, JeM even the ISI must have been glad that, (in alphabetical order), Aaj Tak, CNN-IBN, Headlines Today, NDTV, Times Now et al were giving them a free ringside seat.

Sir, in your extensive travels and study you would have found that the British media showed restraint in broadcasting pictures of the bombing in the Underground, the Police and the Intelligence agencies did not resort to the blame game nor passed the buck. Why does our IB, R &AW always tell us that they told the State Police and the police did nothing? After all the same IB and R &AW is staffed by IPS officers!

Sir, why should the DG NSG have to tell the media what they already know? Have you ever heard of, let alone seen a photo, of the commander of the SAS? Why shouldn’t our SAG/NSG also do their job and disappear? Is it because DG NSG wants exposure so that he is rewarded in the next Republic Day honours list? Even that could be done but quietly.

Sir, I cannot but appreciate your firmness in telling India that you will not cut the price of petrol, diesel etc because the oil companies had suffered losses. How about the same firmness in handling the IB, R &AW etc?

Finally, Sir, the Federal Investigative Agency – laudable but will go the way the CBI unless you give it the autonomy of the Election Commission, Comptroller & Auditor General even the Chief Vigilance Commissioner.

Thank you, Prime Minister for your patience.
Jai Hind
Posted by Armchair Analysis at 3:02 PM


http://sysavur.blogspot.com/2008/12/media-and-me.html

has some references to media crediting CPMFs for the ops

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby Vikram_S » 07 Dec 2008 05:03

Sir, why should the DG NSG have to tell the media what they already know? Have you ever heard of, let alone seen a photo, of the commander of the SAS? Why shouldn’t our SAG/NSG also do their job and disappear? Is it because DG NSG wants exposure so that he is rewarded in the next Republic Day honours list? Even that could be done but quietly.


mr savur is being pompous, and disrespectful of the dg NSG. perhaps he should read about how the dg nsg conducted himself with hostages families before behaving in such a manner.

if the dg nsg had not spoken firmly to the media, the IPS in charge would have continued speaking for the nsg and saying ops are finished, while they were not. it was lack of a centralised briefing system which made the dg nsg speak up and give correct update to people and actually reflected well on the professionalism of indian armed services.

if people cannot directly contribute to the op, least they can do is bide their peace instead of showing non graceful behaviour to brother officers and implying motive. if government had done its job well then there would be no need of individual updates and there were media ppl who would have spun stories about NSG and indian armed forces.

instead of appreciating quick thinking by dg nsg to cool down speculation and calm tempers, mr savur is casting aspersion. that is a shame.

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby Aditya G » 07 Dec 2008 08:55

Graphic from India Today gives Force numbers but seems off the mark for MARCOS and NSG:

Image

Image

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby sum » 07 Dec 2008 09:24

While on this topic of aircraft, please ensure that more than six IL-76 are serviceable at any time by providing them the spares that they badly need. You know that one of the reasons that the SAG was delayed was because the IL-76 became unserviceable and the SAG had to be flown in by An-32 (not because the IL-76 is slower than the B-737 or the Airbus). Come to think of it, why wasn’t an Air India Airbus used?

Didnt the post above the Air Marshal's mention that the SAG flew in via Il-76 while the Air Marshal mentions An-32?
Who is correct? :-?

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby Raja Bose » 07 Dec 2008 11:08

Based on spotter accounts at Mumbai, they flew in by IL 76.

India Today graphic is incorrect....NSG did use HHTI/NVG/Level3BPJ.

Added Later: On 2nd thoughts some editor in India Today got brochuritis and pulled stuff out of his behind....for God's sakes free fall parachute.....Shotgun firing helicopter WTH??? :eek:

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby Anshul » 07 Dec 2008 18:24


kaangeya
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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby kaangeya » 07 Dec 2008 20:10

The defence-strategy guy is wrong. The MP5 is pretty good at rapid fire with mild recoil and as reliable as it gets. Of course some forces are now switching over to the MP7 because it may combine the functions of a CQ rapid fire and automatic, and carries >40 rounds IIRC with high penetrative power. Doesn't the MP5 follow the long tradition of CQ weapons like the Sten and Tommy and of course the legendary PPSh-41?

AM Savur puhleeeeze consult BR before you hit submit/post.

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby somak » 07 Dec 2008 21:31

What is the shotgun firing helicopter? a scaled down predator drone?
and where a gatling gun can be used in a CQ battle?
I feel the need of a sharpnel proof footgear. not necessarily a mine proof one

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby Raja Bose » 08 Dec 2008 08:59

Footage of ordinary Mumbai Cops bravery inside the Taj fighting with 0.303s vs AK-47s holding the terrorists off till MARCOS arrive:

http://broadband.indiatimes.com/toishowvideo/3806151.cms

Listen to the actual conversation between the policemen: (paraphrasing) "We will not let them (terrorists) come down, though we die. That we will do." Need I say more about these men....

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby andy B » 08 Dec 2008 09:27

Raja Bose wrote:Footage of ordinary Mumbai Cops bravery inside the Taj fighting with 0.303s vs AK-47s holding the terrorists off till MARCOS arrive:

http://broadband.indiatimes.com/toishowvideo/3806151.cms

Listen to the actual conversation between the policemen: (paraphrasing) "We will not let them (terrorists) come down, though we die. That we will do." Need I say more about these men....


God bless these brave souls, it would take men with lionhearts to put up against the odds that they faced. Raja any info on what happened to these superb cops?

IMHO there wouldnt be a more contradictory country than Bharat. In one corner we have these extremely brave soldiers while in the other corner we have corrup bas%$^d politicians that will sell the country for their own sake. :cry:

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby Singha » 08 Dec 2008 09:32

what would be the advantages if any of moving from the mp3/mp5 family (9mm) to the 5.56mm HK416 that delta force and few others have selected?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_HK416

is this a suitable weapon for HRT/urban CQB ?

and how about a squad automatic weapon with a high rate of suppressing fire. can the INSAS be modified to use a 200rd box mag
and bipods with some form of magnifying/night scope?

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby sohamn » 08 Dec 2008 09:57

Singha wrote:what would be the advantages if any of moving from the mp3/mp5 family (9mm) to the 5.56mm HK416 that delta force and few others have selected?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_HK416

is this a suitable weapon for HRT/urban CQB ?

and how about a squad automatic weapon with a high rate of suppressing fire. can the INSAS be modified to use a 200rd box mag
and bipods with some form of magnifying/night scope?


Have you seen corner shot. I think these weapons will be of great use against the terrorist especially in close combat situations like taj and nariman house.
Image
Image
Image


For more details please see the site http://www.cornershot.com/. It can be used as a grenade launcher as well.

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby Raja Bose » 08 Dec 2008 10:16

Anand Barve wrote:God bless these brave souls, it would take men with lionhearts to put up against the odds that they faced. Raja any info on what happened to these superb cops?


Didnt hear of any cop casualties in the Taj....so I think they survived to fight another day, forgotten, under equipped and underpaid while our fat babus get themselves raise after raise and take all the kudos for 'tough action'.

CORRECTION: 1 SRPF Constable died in this encounter. Details here: http://ibnlive.in.com/videos/80015/cctv-footage-terror-strike-at-taj--pics-terror-tale.html
Last edited by Raja Bose on 09 Dec 2008 07:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby Singha » 08 Dec 2008 10:30

cornershot looks like a automatic pistol encased in the
frame of a rifle. I dont think its rate of fire or muzzle velocity would
be of desired level in incarnation shown. plus you need to aim using
the lcd monitor, not a ideal situation for snap shooting.

once you have fired around the corner and need to move in,
how to do quickly straighten the system?

interesting idea but the utility looks limited to me.

but the lcd monitor fixed to a normal
rifle could be useful to peek around the corner by just poking some
the barrel around. it could be fitted flush along the side of the
optical scope facing 90' to axis of barrel. the camera should be right
below the top of the barrel.

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby neerajb » 08 Dec 2008 10:34

Cornershot is not a weapon but a weapon adapter. Ultimately you'll have to stick some pistol or APR in front of it. IMVHO, apart from survailance, I find little use of such weapon in actual combat.

Added later : Singhaji it has a snapping switch/lever which straightens the weapon immediately. What I really wonder is how the shooter is going to manage the recoil when the weapon is used at an angle. No doubt that the weapon uses low caliber firearms.

Cheers....

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby George J » 08 Dec 2008 10:43

Children,
There is a very specific reason why it says "NEWS and PICS ONLY NO DISCUSSION. It was meant to collect and archive ACTUAL MSM news and pics related to NSG and MARCOS attacks*. Not to discuss/hypothesis/guesstimate/prestidigitate what neanderthal DDM think is necessary for NSG et. al. Either you kids don't understand English (which is somewhat obvious from how much the mods had to clean this thread up) or you kids really don't give a hoot (which kinda speaks volumes for the new and improved BRF kulture). You will defecate on a thread coz you just feel like it and like to see your OWN posts in your otherwise irrelevant lives. Oh well.....


_____________________________________
*A big thank you to each and everyone who actually understood that concept and actually contributed pics and links.

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby Raja Bose » 08 Dec 2008 11:16

Seems like almost all articles, pics and video links related to NSG/MARCOS/Police have already been posted on this thread. Now we are degenerating into mindless DDM news manufacturing. Perhaps time has come to post in full any remaining articles which have only been referenced as links so far (I have already posted in full the articles I had linked to) and archive the thread. If proper copyrights can be obtained by admins or members with press contacts then we can revamp the Special Forces section on B-R which has been stagnant for a while. JMT.

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby svinayak » 08 Dec 2008 13:25

Looking ahead

As a security consultant who has worked overseas for 25 years, I am stunned at the callous, unprofessional and totally disorganised security response to a situation such as the Mumbai terror attack. I can understand politicians trying to divert public attention by blaming Pakistan, which has never been a friend. It is well known that the Pakistan army will do everything possible to destabilise us. But then, we did not establish institutions at great costs to point a finger at others. The initial response from the Mumbai police showed they had no idea what the situation was and how to handle it. Proposals such as having NSG contingents in every city are not the solution. The command and control should always be with the local police. They should have the means to respond adequately and promptly and be able to demand help from all sources.

Samuel Martyn James,
Chennai

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby krishnan » 08 Dec 2008 13:38

--
Last edited by krishnan on 08 Dec 2008 21:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby KiranM » 08 Dec 2008 18:00

Hi Folks,
I know Startfor is not given much of weight on BR. But the following gave some nuggets of info:
http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20081203_new_york_landmarks_plot_mumbai_attack

Regards,
Kiran

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby pmund » 08 Dec 2008 18:17

I had talked to a marine commando on the first day of the attack and he told me that these guys definitely had special forces training. Seems this is the confirmation

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Mumb ... 804856.cms

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby Raja Bose » 09 Dec 2008 03:41

pmund,

yes got similar impressions through my personal acquaintainces in MARCOS. These folks were trained to Special Forces levels in CQB/UAC tactics, ambush etc. MARCOS are considered one of the best trained SF units anywhere in the world so if these guys earned their grudging admiration....you can imagine what they were capable of. It is a testament to NSG's supreme skill and training that they finished these terrorists off without letting them take down entire hotels.

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby Lalmohan » 09 Dec 2008 13:28

an ex-SAS man who was interviewed on Sky TV to give his comments on the hotel stand off said 'the SF officer was spot on the money' about the situation and tactics, meaning the Marco's press conference, everyone who has actually done this before and has studied the scenario has said that the Indian SF's have done a difficult job well

not that we need endorsements or anything but...

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby Raja Bose » 09 Dec 2008 21:57

^^^ Such kinds of statements only imply that: (a) The western SF appreciate the difficulty openly and honestly (usually they wont be that forthcoming and will stick to 3rd world military blah blah in public, privately their views might be appreciation); (b) They are very very very very worried that this can happen to them and are not sure how they would have/can handle it. Expect Mumbai attacks to be used as training scenarios in every well-trained CT/HRT force in the world, as we speak.

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby Dmurphy » 09 Dec 2008 23:38

Deleted on request...

Aye Aye, Rahul
Last edited by Dmurphy on 09 Dec 2008 23:44, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby pmund » 09 Dec 2008 23:41

Combo pic of the ********

Image

One news report said the terrorists wore body armour. How far is it true?? Is this the reason why all of them were shot multiple times in the head (one was shot through both eyes, will try to upload the pic)

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby Rahul M » 09 Dec 2008 23:42

DM, we wanted to collect the archive quality articles in this thread, not the questionable ones. (our neighbours would have contributed as many pages at least in that case)

please clean up.

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby pmund » 09 Dec 2008 23:52

Have more pics of the Bas***** but they are too gory. Should I post them?

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Re: MARCOS & NSG ops in Mumbai Attack (News and Pics ONLY)

Postby pmund » 10 Dec 2008 00:38

MARCO (?) without the usual black dungaree and mask at Taj. Any guesses on why he went in in camos?? This is a pic of the first day of the attack

Image


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