Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 Dec 2008 01:49

Unless and until India becomes a top flight nation every yahoo is going to give a yahoo piece of advice. And, since the advice is not serious they will confuse local police for special forces, etc. It is up to India to remove any hyphens on such matters.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 10 Dec 2008 01:58

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/world ... l?ref=asia

Indian Police Disclose More Suicide Attackers

By JEREMY KAHN and ROBERT F. WORTH
Published: December 9, 2008

MUMBAI, India — The Mumbai police said Tuesday that the 10 men who carried out the terrorist attacks here belonged to a group of 30 recruits of the Lashkar-e-Taiba Pakistani militant organization who had been selected for suicide missions, and that the whereabouts of the other 20 were unknown.
Five of the eight militants killed in the attacks in Mumbai. From left; Bada Abdul Rahman, Abdul Rahman Chota, Ismail Kahn, Nasir, and Babr Imran.

It was the first time that the Indian police had disclosed the larger number of suicide recruits, and while they said there was no reason to believe that the other 20 were in India, they expressed concern about such a possibility.

"Another 20 were ready to die," said Deven Bharti, a Mumbai Police deputy commissioner, in an interview. “This is the very disturbing part of it.”

The Indian police have consistently maintained that only 10 gunmen participated in the Nov. 26-29 attacks in Mumbai that left 171 people dead and raised tensions between the nuclear-armed neighbors India and Pakistan to the the highest in years.

Mr. Bharti said the information about the other recruits came from the sole surviving attacker, Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, who was arrested during the attacks and has been in police custody ever since.

The deputy commissioner also said that based on the questioning of Mr. Kasab, the 30 recruits were provided with highly specialized training, including learning marine combat skills.

Once Mr. Kasab and his nine fellow attackers were selected by Lashkar leaders, they were kept sequestered in a house for three months, the deputy commissioner said. Here they were further divided into two-man teams, each team assigned a different target within Mumbai to attack, information that they were forbidden from sharing with one another. They never saw the other 20 trainees again, the deputy commissioner said, according to the information provided by Mr. Kasab.

The Indian police also on Tuesday provided further names and photographs of the Mumbai attackers, and supplied new details of the weaponry and communications and navigation equipment that they used during their assault.

The authorities had already identified two of the Mumbai gunmen, including Mr. Kasab, the lone survivor from the attacks, from the village of Faridkot, and Ismail Khan, from Deira Ismail Khan.

Each of the men had aliases, and they knew each other only by those aliases during their training, the police said. Only in the final few days before the attack, while they traveled by boat from the port of Karachi in Pakistan across the Arabian Sea to Mumbai, did they learn each others’ true names, said Rakesh Maria, Mumbai’s joint police commissioner.

At a news conference in Mumbai, Mr. Maria said the attackers carried a dozen grenades, a 9 mm handgun with two 18 round clips and an AK-47, along with seven to nine 30 round magazines, in addition to more than 100 rounds of loose ammunition. Mr. Maria had said previously that each terrorist also carried an 8 kilogram bomb. Three of these bombs were recovered and diffused, while the others exploded at various locations around the city, according to the police.

As the Indian police gave more information about the attackers, the Pakistani government publicly confirmed for the first time on Tuesday that its forces had seized two militant leaders, including the operational commander of Lashkar-e-Taiba.

The confirmation of the arrest of the Lashkar leader, Zaki ur-Rehman Lakhvi, was made by Pakistani Defense Minister Ahmad Mukhtar in an interview on Indian television. It was the furthest the authorities in Pakistan have yet gone in publicly acknowledging the possible complicity of Lashkar-e-Taiba in the Mumbai attacks.

Mr. Mukhtar identified the second militant leader arrested as Masood Azhar, head of Jaish-e-Muhammad, another banned militant group based in Pakistan.

Mr. Azhar, who was freed in 1999 in exchange for hostages on a hijacked Indian Airlines plane in Kandahar, Afghanistan, was on a list presented to Pakistan by the Indian government days after the attacks in Mumbai. The list contained the names of 20 suspects wanted in connection with other terrorist attacks and pending criminal cases.

Mr. Lakhvi “has been picked up,” Mr. Mukhtar said, according to the television channel, CNN-IBN. “About Masood Azhar, I don’t think we had decided yesterday to pick him up but our president is determined that we remove all irritants and as a small irritant he has been picked up.” He said that President Asif Ali Zardari of Pakistan was “determined that we must cooperate with India.”

Mr. Zardari himself, in an op-ed article published in the Tuesday edition of The New York Times, said Pakistan feels India’s pain and that Pakistan “is committed to the pursuit, arrest, trial and punishment of anyone involved in these heinous attacks.” But Mr. Zardari also cautioned India against what he called “hasty judgments and inflammatory statements.”

After mounting pressure from the United States and India, Pakistani authorities on Sunday raided a camp run by Lashkar-e-Taiba, the militant group, in Muzaffarabad, the capital of Pakistani-administered Kashmir, Pakistani and American officials said.

That operation appeared to be Pakistan’s first concrete response to the demands from India and the United States to take action against the militants suspected in the attacks.

Since then, the authorities have carried out raids on at least five more offices of Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Associated Press reported Tuesday, citing an unidentified senior Pakistani security official. The official said that 20 more people had been arrested.

It was unclear from the defense minister’s remarks whether Mr. Lakhvi was detained in the first raid on Sunday. Lashkar-e-Taiba was founded 20 years ago with the help of Pakistan’s intelligence agencies as a proxy force to challenge Indian control of part of Muslim-dominated Kashmir.

American intelligence and counterterrorism officials told The New York Times that Pakistan’s spy agency, Inter-Services Intelligence, continued nurturing the group, even after 9/11, when the Pakistani government pledged to sever its ties with militant groups.

While investigators and intelligence officials say there is no hard evidence linking Pakistan’s spy agency to the Mumbai attacks, they have pointed to Lashkar as the likely culprit.

Jeremy Kahn and Robert F. Worth reported from Mumbai, India. Reporting was contributed by Jane Perlez in Islamabad, Pakistan; Graham Bowley in New York; Eric Schmitt in Washington; Yusuf Jameel in Srinagar, Kashmir; and Salman Masood in Islamabad, Pakistan.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 10 Dec 2008 02:06

Pranay wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/09/opini ... .html?_r=1

Zardari on Terrorism in today's New York Times - Op-Ed.
Op-Ed Contributor
The Terrorists Want to Destroy Pakistan, Too
Asif Ali Zardari is the president of Pakistan.

On one hand:

they are publishing comments freely, including one from yours truely, which was harsh to say the least.
pakis can't be happy that their president is reduced to writing op-eds in toilet paper quality news outlets.

.

and on the other

wonder what it will take for these guys to stop giving any random pakistani or pakistan lover visibility and face time?
at least in the short term, its going to continue to be more aid, more aid

What is up with the "we are ready for a war" bit? Indians seem to have no intent of doing anything. They have burnt NATO trucks, they have tried burning Bombay, nothing seems to start this war they are looking for.

PS: someone wrote a reasonable comment. Why hasn't Z/10% caught BB's killers yet? Almighty and powerful that he is.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Dec 2008 02:12

Has the Indian police made Kasab name the aliases of the other 20 terrorists and help prepare sketches of their faces?

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 10 Dec 2008 02:34

TOIlet paper USA (NYT) has had to mortgage its NYC HQ to obtain woking capital, so precarious its position has been.... Some enterprising Indian baniya would do well to do a Murdoch on it and buy the damn thing off.... it still has propagandu value, apparently, and plenty of historical baggage too.

Its no secret that all manner of porki lovers have long been finding space and voice in prominent US mainstream media outlets. Not that it'll do much good anyway.

MKB in atimes claims GoI has executed a subtle but strong move by agreeing to internationalize Afgn in tandem with the SCO (PRC, Russia and iran) and thereby deny the US-TSP-KSA combine of sole play over the area.

Meanwhile, more than one news outlet has hinted that India may strike camps in TSP if the LeT arrest story turns dissatisfactory (as it no doubt will). Maybe quereshi's hyperventilating brvado ('we are ready if war is imposed on us') has something to do with such an assessment, perhaps?

Also, already, porki and western media spin has it that the NATO vehicle bombings in peshawar are the handiwork of bad, bad 'militants' onlee, no TSPA hand anywhere.

Arya Sumantra · Post by **Arya Sumantra** » 10 Dec 2008 02:48

vsudhir wrote:more than one news outlet has hinted that India may strike camps in TSP if the LeT arrest story turns dissatisfactory (as it no doubt will).

By now all the training brave mards(of hiding behind civilians fame) would have relocated to safety or sent on vacation. We will be satisfying ourselves with images of destroyed abandoned real estate and craters that brahmos creates in an empty ground called shooting range.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 10 Dec 2008 02:58

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/09/world ... l?ref=asia

Technology used by the terrorists...

Mumbai Terrorists Relied on New Technology for Attacks

By JEREMY KAHN
Published: December 8, 2008
MUMBAI, India — The terrorists who struck this city last month stunned authorities not only with their use of sophisticated weaponry but also with their comfort with modern technology.

Skip to next paragraph
Enlarge This Image

David Guttenfelder/Associated Press
A soldier in Mumbai during the siege of the Taj Mahal hotel last month. The attackers studied satellite images of the city online.
The terrorists navigated across the Arabian Sea to Mumbai from Karachi, Pakistan, with the help of a global positioning system handset. While under way, they communicated using a satellite phone with those in Pakistan believed to have coordinated the attacks. They recognized their targets and knew the most direct routes to reach them in part because they had studied satellite photos from Google Earth.

And, perhaps most significantly, throughout the three-day siege at two luxury hotels and a Jewish center, the Pakistani-based handlers communicated with the attackers using Internet phones that complicate efforts to trace and intercept calls.

Those handlers, who were apparently watching the attacks unfold live on television, were able to inform the attackers of the movement of security forces from news accounts and provide the gunmen with instructions and encouragement, authorities said.

Hasan Gafoor, Mumbai’s police commissioner, said Monday that as once complicated technologies — including global positioning systems and satellite phones — have become simpler to operate, terrorists, like everyone else, have become adept at using them. “Well, whether terrorists or common criminals, they do try to be a step ahead in terms of technology,” he said.

Indian security forces surrounding the buildings were able to monitor the terrorists’ outgoing calls by intercepting their cellphone signals. But Indian police officials said those directing the attacks, who are believed to be from Lashkar-e-Taiba, a militant group based in Pakistan, were using a Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) phone service, which has complicated efforts to determine their whereabouts and identities.

VoIP services, in which conversations are carried over the Internet as opposed to conventional phone lines or cellphone towers, are increasingly popular with people looking to save money on long distance and international calls. Many such services, like Skype and Vonage, allow a user to call another VoIP-enabled device anywhere in the world free of charge, or to call a standard telephone or cellphone at a deeply discounted rate.

But the same services are also increasingly popular with criminals and terrorists, a trend that worries some law enforcement and intelligence agencies. “It’s a concern,” said one Indian security official, who spoke anonymously because the investigation was continuing. “It’s not something we have seen before.”

In mid-October, a draft United States Army intelligence report highlighted the growing interest of Islamic militants in using VoIP, noting recent news reports of Taliban insurgents using Skype to communicate. The unclassified report, which examined discussions of emerging technologies on jihadi Web sites, was obtained by the Federation of American Scientists, a Washington-based nonprofit group that monitors the impact of science on national security.

VoIP calls pose an array of difficulties for intelligence and law enforcement services, according to communications experts. “It means the phone-tapping techniques that work for old traditional interception don’t work,” said Matt Blaze, a professor and computer security expert at the University of Pennsylvania.

An agency using conventional tracing techniques to track a call from a land line or cellphone to a VoIP subscriber would be able to get only as far as the switching station that converts the voice call into Internet data, communications experts said. The switch, usually owned and operated by the company providing the VoIP service, could be located thousands of miles from the subscriber.

The subscriber’s phone number would also likely reveal no information about his location. For instance, someone in New York could dial a local phone number but actually be connected via the Internet to a person in Thailand.

In Mumbai, authorities have declined to disclose the names of the VoIP companies whose services the Lashkar-e-Taiba handlers used, but reports in Indian news media have said the calls have been traced to companies in New Jersey and Austria. Yet investigators have said they are convinced that the handlers who directed the attacks were actually sitting somewhere in Pakistan during the calls.

One senior Lashkar-e-Taiba leader who American officials believe may have played a key role in planning the Mumbai attacks is Zarrar Shah. Mr. Shah, known to be a specialist in communications technology, may have been aware of the difficulties in tracing VoIP.

To determine the location of a VoIP caller, an investigating agency has to access a database kept by the service provider. The database logs the unique numerical identifier, known as an Internet Protocol (I.P.) address, of whatever device the subscriber was using to connect to the Internet. This could be a computer equipped with a microphone, a special VoIP phone, or even a cellphone with software that routes calls over the Internet using wireless connections as opposed to cellular signals.

It would then take additional electronic sleuthing to determine where the device was located. The customer’s identity could be obtained from the service provider as well, but might prove fraudulent, experts said.

Getting the I.P. address and then determining its location can take days longer than a standard phone trace, particularly if service providers involved are in a foreign country.

“Ultimately, we can trace them,” said Mr. Gafoor, referring to VoIP calls. “It takes a little longer, but we will trace them.”

Washington is assisting the Indian authorities in obtaining this information, according to another Indian police official who also spoke anonymously because of the continuing investigation.

Further complicating this task is the fact that I.P. addresses change frequently and are less tied to a specific location than phone numbers.

Computer experts said that while these challenges were formidable, none were insurmountable. And they cautioned that security services and police forces might be disingenuous when they complain about terrorists’ use of new technologies, including VoIP.

The experts said that VoIP calls left a far richer data trail for investigators to mine than someone calling from an old-fashioned pay phone. Mr. Blaze, the computer security expert at the University of Pennsylvania, also noted that 15 years ago the Mumbai attackers would probably not have had the capacity to make calls to their handlers during the course of their attacks, depriving investigators of vital clues to their identities. “As one door closes — traditional wire line tapping — all these other doors have opened,” Mr. Blaze said.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 10 Dec 2008 03:11

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 10 Dec 2008 03:17

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 10 Dec 2008 03:35

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fo ... ruti&sid=1

Follow-up needed...

I would say, among the first things that Mr. Chidambaram needs to do centrally and the new CM needs to do in Maharashtra is to de-couple the Politician - Police nexus.

The police departments need to be autonomous and accountable only to the Constitution of India.

Only then can something like what happened in Chicago happen in India - the arrest of the Illinois Governer by the FBI.

kobe · Post by **kobe** » 10 Dec 2008 03:48

HariC wrote:
SandeepA wrote:Piglets..

Posted for comparision from earlier thread (tahnks jagan ji)

yes lookie like babbar imran (last row - center piglet)

HariC, you are the winner.
to claim your prize:
email me at places223 at yahoo dot com

ramana-saar you get consolation prize for trying:
5 free sapporo beer bottles.

(also time to annouce a bay area BR meet)

RajaJi · Post by **RajaJi** » 10 Dec 2008 04:51

Hi, guys, this is my first post, just joined BR, It's been a few days since I had been browsing the forums here, I came across these forums after the Mumbai attacks had occurred and been visiting this site for up to date info almost daily and it feels really good to read opinions of true patriotic fellow Indians like myself.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 10 Dec 2008 05:15

disha wrote:
VikramS wrote:To others who worry about accidental deaths: We are not talking about a society where everyone carries a gun. Even in the US where gun ownership is 90 guns for 100 people, it is rare to hear about an accidental killing in a situation where a gun is being used in self-defense.
Apparently you are out of touch with the ground realities in India. Go talk to a police officer in US of A and how much he/she sweats out trying to control crowd of more than 50 people! He is afraid that even 5 guns among them makes the crowd lethal to both police and the crowd and the innocents nearby. Have you seen the amount of control exercised in "gun transporting"? Guns not allowed in several hundereds of places... and yes a small town may have lots of guns, particularly when the small town farmers have to control some hundered of acres of farm land ...

All of your talk is pipe dreams drawn out of experience from a BB Gun.

Your response is not particularly coherent so I will take a guess.

I presume you are talking about crowd control and the presence of guns. If guns in the crowd is an issue, it is not likely due to legally owned guns. Illegally owned guns will continue to exist. Many cities do not allow concealed hand guns which is perfectly acceptable. But hotel security and employees, a private area should be able to arm themselves (read Oberoi's statements).

In India, a terrorist is guaranteed that no one will challenge him/her with a gun. However if gun ownership grows to 10-20/100, the terrorist wouldn't have that fearless swagger in their stride. They would know that their meeting with God could be arranged by any body in sight since they might be carrying a weapon. This would slow them down significantly since they would need to cover each other's backside instead of their brazen walk.
Provider that the arranger of the terrorist has not himself/herself has been arranged by another deranged arranger.

Guns, even guns in the hands of civilians, serve their purpose best while they remain holstered. If there is a need to unholster them, then clearly there was a significant failure somewhere else; they after all are the last line of defense.
And pray how are you going to arrange that they remain unholstered?

Can't figure out what you are saying. Point is that the terrorists would not have been so free in their actions if they were concerned about guns owned by the people they were killing. It was a turkey-shoot in Mumbai; it could at least been a gun-fight if a few people who were being cut down had guns. Even the knolwedge of potential presence of guns would require different strategies.

Raja Bose:
I beg to differ from your view that SDRE Indians can not fire guns in a crisis situation. People are able to able to do feats of immense strength at time of stress.

Even if my shot is not 100% accurate, it is highly unlikely to hit a passer-by who is in the line of fire on the bad-guy. Most passer-bys do not like to hang around terrorists on a killing spree and will unlikely to be in the arc of fire (assuming my SDRE hands tremble at the sight of the TFTA terrorist, and convert the line of fire into an arc).

Regardless the issue is not the accuracy of my shot but the deterrent factor which the presence of an armed civilian population brings to the planning of any terrorist operation. It forces the terrorist to sanitize their path (like Indian commando's had to). My belief is that the fear of guns itself would have reduced the effectiveness of the terrrorists by a significant factor.

One analogy I can provide is the ground Battle of Longowala. The Pakistani Armor Thrust stopped its forward progress because they were not sure how big Maj. Chandpuri's force was. They could have easily outflanked it and moved on but could not because of uncertainty in the size of the defending force (created by the defenders never firing from the same position). That holding effort stalled the thrust allowing the IAF to blast them out the next morning. Similarly the terrorists would have to behave differently if they do not know what kind of resistance they are against.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 10 Dec 2008 05:42

They were almost caught...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Terr ... 815507.cms

Terror boat was almost nabbed off Mumbai
10 Dec 2008, 0042 hrs IST, Diwakar, TNN

NEW DELHI: Alertness by an Indian patrol vessel on the night of November 26 could have prevented the Mumbai carnage. Lashkar terrorist Ajmal Amir
Kasab has told interrogators that just before the 10 jihadis abandoned the trawler 'Kuber' to take inflatable boats to dock at Mumbai, an Indian vessel — either from the Navy or the Coast Guard and seemingly on a routine patrol — passed by Kuber with a sailor scanning it through binoculars.

The scrutiny was close enough to cause the terrorists to take positions and alert their Lashkar bosses. The Lashkar commanders ordered the gang to stay still and avoid a confrontation with the patrol.

Soon, the vessel, perhaps taken in by the Indian ownership of Kuber, moved on. But in their haste to move out, the panicky jihadis forgot to destroy their satphone and GPS device.

This was an instruction that had been sternly drilled into the group by the Lashkar trainers in the camps where they were trained, in the safehouse at Azizabad near Karachi where they had been put up before being sent and, one last time, on board Al Hussaini, the Lashkar ship which they sailed on before capturing Kuber.

The satellite phone, with five logged calls to Lashkar brass, is a trove of information that can blast apart Pakistan's denial that the terrorists were launched from its territory and by a group which is an extension of its espionage agency, the ISI. India's agencies have been familiar with one of these logged numbers which has regularly popped up in the course of investigation into terrorist attacks. It belongs to Abu Al Qama, a known Lashkar mastermind of jihadi violence.

What should worry Lashkar and its mentors in Pakistan establishment is the GPS device in the Thuraya satellite phone — something that can pinpoint the location of the user. Such details are stored in the 'switch' or service provider's hub in Sharjah, and can drill holes in Lashkar's denials of its involvement. Put shortly, the satphone memory can map the location and movement of the instruments and their jihadi users.

The Sharjah-based Thuraya has been the jihadis' favourite because the satphone is not licenced to be sold here and, therefore, the calls, made or received, cannot be intercepted. For the details of other four logged numbers, cops have approached the Federal Bureau of Investigation who have enough leverage with the UAE authorities to get the details from the service provider. The GPS device that they used on the trawler has already established that they had set out from Kazghar creek to be picked up by the jihadi ship, Al Hussaini.

Indian cops are also depending on the FBI to trace the origin of calls made to mobile phones carried by the attackers through the Net, using Voice over Internet Protocol. This is going to be a tough task as the software to mask a user's location is freely available. Such calls pass through several proxy sites and the pathways are not easy to trace.

FBI, however, has proven expertise in the field and Indian cops are banking on it. "It is a test case for the US's promise to help us get to the bottom of mass murder conspiracy," said a senior intelligence source, obviously wary of the extent to which Washington would go in a probe that can affect its ties with Pakistan, its ally in the "war against terror".

RajaJi · Post by **RajaJi** » 10 Dec 2008 05:54

I think the first step of the GoI should be to provide modern firearms to it's police officers, I'm sure that had the constables had proper fire power with adequate training, the terrorists wouldn't of gotten as far as they did. Not only modern firearms but also state of the art bullet proof vests etc., Second, thing is that such huge landmarks like the Taj and Oberoi should have some serious, well armed security staff. I'm sure if there were a team of even 10 security men at the Taj, armed with automatic weapons, the terrorists wouldn't of been able to create such mayhem for so long.

Also, the GoI needs to grow some b**ls, I feel really ashamed at the fact it has been 12 days since this attack, it has clearly been established that porkistani elements were behind this operation, backed and trained by isi and for sure tsp, because i don't think this operation would have gone ahead without the ashirwad of authorities in control in porkistan and still you have the Indian PM referring to porkistan as "neighboring country". I mean our own PM doesn't have the guts to say that porkistan was behind these attacks, let alone take any urgently needed military action against them.

Also, does anyone know which actor is Sonu Nigam referring to, who mentioned that these attacks are happening due to the demolition of the babri masjid? Here's the youtube link to the video, he says this around 1.53.

samuel.chandra · Post by **samuel.chandra** » 10 Dec 2008 06:24

This time, i think it looks different. I think the MMS is actually pissed (remember he is not a politician). I think even the going to UN is exhausting all options (if you read carefully, its talking about ultimatum). The quick response by the pakis (the 2 day deadline was real then?) also shows they are scared of something (and its not the US). I think there will be POK bombardment and then a longer term covert operation. BJP really didnt get the time to use mumbai in this election but Congress is not that stupid to think that this wont come up in the national elections.

Kanson wrote:What can India do in covert ops ? There is lot of debate going on. I feel it already gained mass and going to roll irrespective of any outcome. Seriously, if what i heard could come true, mindboggling, a new era has began, where the sign reads, DON'T MESS WITH INDIANS.

US Navy seals is just a paltry.

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 10 Dec 2008 06:52

Anu Nigam is talking about Javed Jafri...I do remember javed jafri talking about dec 6, & other such past attacks..

jash_p · Post by **jash_p** » 10 Dec 2008 07:01

I think it was Shabana Azmi.

Also, does anyone know which actor is Sonu Nigam referring to, who mentioned that these attacks are happening due to the demolition of the babri masjid? Here's the youtube link to the video, he says this around 1.53.

RajaJi · Post by **RajaJi** » 10 Dec 2008 07:39

In another video Sonu Nigam is mentioning that the person is a choreographer, dancer, and actor. I think that description better fits javed jafri. no?

Also, I saw a few different videos of shahrukh, amir, and salman khan, in which they condemn the mumbai attacks and say that not all sullas are like this, terrorists have no religion etc., however, they go onto stress that we shouldn't blame pukistan, because they are also victims of terror, it's comments like these that make me believe that even moderate sullas have a soft spot for porkis and jihadist. A true Indian would not make such comments, regardless of their religion and would definitely feel angered towards pukistan from all the irrefutable evidence that has surfaced. I feel disgusted by these bloody actors, jis thali mein khate hain usi mein chhed karte hain sale, send them all to puskistan.

Here's amirkhan, note he doesn't forget to add that pukistan is also a victim of terror.

And here's sallu repeating the same bs. He also makes it a point to say that "do the pukis ever blame Indians" for their terrorist attacks? What a b**tard.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 10 Dec 2008 07:59

amdavadi wrote:Anu Nigam is talking about Javed Jafri...I do remember javed jafri talking about dec 6, & other such past attacks..

Yes, it was Javed Jafri. I heard him too. Sonu Nigam did well to mention it.

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 10 Dec 2008 08:06

typo on my previous post...i meant to say sonu nigam..

vdutta · Post by **vdutta** » 10 Dec 2008 08:57

Victor wrote:Re: flying pork butt, after watching the video I am reasonably convinced he was shot in the head/face before being thrown out the window and the only one so decorated is the one Ramana pointed out.

That was the grand finish. I cant tell you how proud and satisfied i was after watching 3 different channels for 3 days waiting on the pigs to roast.
Me and some of my american friends were watching it live at a coffee shop, and as soon as the pig was shot and thrown out of the window we all went for drinks. everyone cheered like it was a touchdown.
I felt the hatred of the commando who threw him out of the window after shooting the pig. I would have done the same and spat on him too..

archan · Post by **archan** » 10 Dec 2008 08:58

India raises Mumbai terror attack at UN
Wonder whats gonna come out of it. If they show tantrums, maybe something might.

kobe · Post by **kobe** » 10 Dec 2008 08:59

i don't know why we are giving so much importance to "celebrities"

- somebody is an actor does not mean he has a brain in his musharraf

- its not just muslim actors (salman khan, amir khan, shabana azmi, shahrukh khan) there are also hindu actors and "celebrities" who talk nonsense (so lets not single out all muslim actors for hate)

(actually amir khan in above video did say something about attacking the terrorist training camps)

- also due credit should go to well known and not-so well known muslims who hate paki-satan for being a thorn on india's side (and speak out publicly about it)

also, please please remember:

if the congressi are wimps, does not mean BJP will be any different (again memories of jaswant singh giving first class VIP ride to terrorist all the way to kandhar giving me chest pain)

sum · Post by **sum** » 10 Dec 2008 09:00

Is Ram Jethmalani a Grade-1 WKK?

He was on Times now debate yesterday and was absolutely shocking(to say the least). He was going hammer and tongs at the Indian govt(s) and was being more Paki than the slimy Paki who was guest on the show!!!!

Even Arnab and the other panelists got stunned by the India bashing/Paki praising of the "seasoned lawyer".....

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Dec 2008 09:08

vdutta wrote:
Victor wrote:Re: flying pork butt, after watching the video I am reasonably convinced he was shot in the head/face before being thrown out the window and the only one so decorated is the one Ramana pointed out.
That was the grand finish. I cant tell you how proud and satisfied i was after watching 3 different channels for 3 days waiting on the pigs to roast.
Me and some of my american friends were watching it live at a coffee shop, and as soon as the pig was shot and thrown out of the window we all went for drinks. everyone cheered like it was a touchdown.
I felt the hatred of the commando who threw him out of the window after shooting the pig. I would have done the same and spat on him too..

The video is here
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=omiyIu-gk1c
(set to a tune called "Popcorn" - I would have used "Beer and Popcorn" but know of no such tune)

The photo of the dead bacon shows that it has been ripped to shreds - but the face is intact.

Watching the video repeatedly - this is my view of what happened.

The pig sticks his gun out the window and fires a burst. No smoke from that burst (as is to be expected).

Soon after he withdraws - there is a sudden puff of smoke. That might have been a grenade chucked by one of our NSG men that shredded the pig to strips of bacon. But the joker was looking out the and hence his face survived.

He was then unceremoniously dumped in a manner symbolic of what must be done to Pakistan.

RajaJi · Post by **RajaJi** » 10 Dec 2008 09:10

Well, I was browsing for some videos on youtube, to see how the pukistani media has responded to the Mumbai attacks, and it's really appalling to see that as where the Indian media and government are pussyfooting about aggressively blaming pukistan, these pukistanis are being very provocative and downright insensitive about whom carried out the mumbai attacks. They are basically blaming it on elements within India. Basically, this pigs are saying that it was an inside job. And they are saying that it would be their good fortune if India starts a war with them. They are letting out a war cry, openly challenging India to attack them. Why is India being so timid? This is the time to strike them, and hit them hard. Just watching these videos got my blood boiling. Aren't Indian media and intelligence agencies watching this? Here's are some videos that I think should be watched to see how desperate these piggies are for war with India. We should give them what they want.

samuel.chandra · Post by **samuel.chandra** » 10 Dec 2008 09:20

Wow! Finally a clear headed and straight talking artist. He truly has balls to come out so openly.

RajaJi wrote:

Also, does anyone know which actor is Sonu Nigam referring to, who mentioned that these attacks are happening due to the demolition of the babri masjid? Here's the youtube link to the video, he says this around 1.53.

samuel.chandra · Post by **samuel.chandra** » 10 Dec 2008 09:25

I think they know its coming.

RajaJi wrote:Well, I was browsing for some videos on youtube, to see how the pukistani media has responded to the Mumbai attacks, and it's really appalling to see that as where the Indian media and government are pussyfooting about aggressively blaming pukistan, these pukistanis are being very provocative and downright insensitive about whom carried out the mumbai attacks. They are basically blaming it on elements within India. Basically, this pigs are saying that it was an inside job. And they are saying that it would be their good fortune if India starts a war with them. They are letting out a war cry, openly challenging India to attack them. Why is India being so timid? This is the time to strike them, and hit them hard. Just watching these videos got my blood boiling. Aren't Indian media and intelligence agencies watching this? Here's are some videos that I think should be watched to see how desperate these piggies are for war with India. We should give them what they want.

RajaJi · Post by **RajaJi** » 10 Dec 2008 09:44

samuel.chandra wrote:I think they know its coming.

RajaJi wrote:Well, I was browsing for some videos on youtube, to see how the pukistani media has responded to the Mumbai attacks, and it's really appalling to see that as where the Indian media and government are pussyfooting about aggressively blaming pukistan, these pukistanis are being very provocative and downright insensitive about whom carried out the mumbai attacks. They are basically blaming it on elements within India. Basically, this pigs are saying that it was an inside job. And they are saying that it would be their good fortune if India starts a war with them. They are letting out a war cry, openly challenging India to attack them. Why is India being so timid? This is the time to strike them, and hit them hard. Just watching these videos got my blood boiling. Aren't Indian media and intelligence agencies watching this? Here's are some videos that I think should be watched to see how desperate these piggies are for war with India. We should give them what they want.

pukistan is basically a knife wielding retard, who's escaped from the pagalkhanna, and is holding other sane people of this world hostage, threatening them with the knife (atom bomb), if they don't sing to his tune. This pagal needs to be apprehended, the knife taken out of his hand and beaten to a pulp and then put him back in mental institution, lock him up for life. After that, the world powers should see to it that none of the other pagals ever get their hands on a knife, like iran. There should be some kind of international security watchdog type force that should monitor the world situation that no rogue state, especially if they're an "islamic state" should ever get in their possession a nuclear bomb, or even they are working towards acquiring one, they should be stopped in their tracks in decapitated.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 10 Dec 2008 09:45

RajaJi wrote:They are basically blaming it on elements within India. Basically, this pigs are saying that it was an inside job.

Not surprising at all. Remember Kaluchak, Wandhama, Chottisinghpura ? They were all blamed on the Indian Armed Forces themselves by the Government of Pakistan. SOP for Pakis.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 10 Dec 2008 09:50

VikramS wrote:
disha wrote: Apparently you are out of touch with the ground realities in India. Go talk to a police officer in US of A and how much he/she sweats out trying to control crowd of more than 50 people! He is afraid that even 5 guns among them makes the crowd lethal to both police and the crowd and the innocents nearby. Have you seen the amount of control exercised in "gun transporting"? Guns not allowed in several hundereds of places... and yes a small town may have lots of guns, particularly when the small town farmers have to control some hundered of acres of farm land ...

All of your talk is pipe dreams drawn out of experience from a BB Gun.

Your response is not particularly coherent so I will take a guess.

I presume you are talking about crowd control and the presence of guns. If guns in the crowd is an issue, it is not likely due to legally owned guns. Illegally owned guns will continue to exist. Many cities do not allow concealed hand guns which is perfectly acceptable. But hotel security and employees, a private area should be able to arm themselves (read Oberoi's statements).
Provider that the arranger of the terrorist has not himself/herself has been arranged by another deranged arranger.
And pray how are you going to arrange that they remain unholstered?
Can't figure out what you are saying. Point is that the terrorists would not have been so free in their actions if they were concerned about guns owned by the people they were killing. It was a turkey-shoot in Mumbai; it could at least been a gun-fight if a few people who were being cut down had guns. Even the knolwedge of potential presence of guns would require different strategies.

Raja Bose:
I beg to differ from your view that SDRE Indians can not fire guns in a crisis situation. People are able to able to do feats of immense strength at time of stress.

Even if my shot is not 100% accurate, it is highly unlikely to hit a passer-by who is in the line of fire on the bad-guy. Most passer-bys do not like to hang around terrorists on a killing spree and will unlikely to be in the arc of fire (assuming my SDRE hands tremble at the sight of the TFTA terrorist, and convert the line of fire into an arc).

Regardless the issue is not the accuracy of my shot but the deterrent factor which the presence of an armed civilian population brings to the planning of any terrorist operation. It forces the terrorist to sanitize their path (like Indian commando's had to). My belief is that the fear of guns itself would have reduced the effectiveness of the terrrorists by a significant factor.

One analogy I can provide is the ground Battle of Longowala. The Pakistani Armor Thrust stopped its forward progress because they were not sure how big Maj. Chandpuri's force was. They could have easily outflanked it and moved on but could not because of uncertainty in the size of the defending force (created by the defenders never firing from the same position). That holding effort stalled the thrust allowing the IAF to blast them out the next morning. Similarly the terrorists would have to behave differently if they do not know what kind of resistance they are against.

Even if the population is armed, one wonders if a terrorist will be deterred from his task and more so a committed terrorist with a fanatic mindset. In such a situation where the population is armed, I presume, he will not be able to move around with guns blazing with no concern of his own becoming a 'saheed' before he ensures a satisfactory amount of carnage. He will move from cover to cover and have his comrade giving covering fire during his span of being 'exposed'. Since the population is not trained in military tactics, they possibly would fire at random and flee as you yourself stated that in a firing, the people tend to flee and not hang around and be brave.

Could you amplify what is 'sanitising the path' since I have not understood that?

As far as Longewala is concerned, the terminal aim was to attack Jaisalmer. The issue of outflanking is feasible after 'feeling the flanks'. If I might add they were not in a position since they had not evaluated the ground for use of tanks. The soft sand was bogging their tanks and there were engine failures due to overheating. Further, there was full moonlight and they were totally confused when they hit the barbed wires. And by the time their engineers arrived to discover that they were no minefield, the game was up! Notwithstanding, the bravery and iron will of the Indian troops, hopelessly outnumbered, is something that is to be cherished forever!

Having used firearms as a part of daily life and having seen the strict regulations and drills to ensure that there is no misuse, I feel a free for all with firearms is dangerous. Because of laxity in the use of firearms, wherein one is allowed to have firearms with loose control in the CI environment, there are these cases of suicide and fragging. If a disciplined force can undertake indisciplined behaviour, whatever be the cause, one wonders what will happen if those who are not disciplined are allowed free access to possessing firearms. One wonders also if terrorism could be the rationale to allow free access to firearms for all.

It is the govt's job to protect its population and they cannot abdicate this responsibility.

Just my opinion.

Saral · Post by **Saral** » 10 Dec 2008 09:57

samuel.chandra wrote:Wow! Finally a clear headed and straight talking artist. He truly has balls to come out so openly.

RajaJi wrote:

Also, does anyone know which actor is Sonu Nigam referring to, who mentioned that these attacks are happening due to the demolition of the babri masjid? Here's the youtube link to the video, he says this around 1.53.

that was SRK (shah rukh khan) based on his imitation

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 10 Dec 2008 10:05

RajaJi wrote: They are basically blaming it on elements within India. Basically, this pigs are saying that it was an inside job. And they are saying that it would be their good fortune if India starts a war with them. They are letting out a war cry, openly challenging India to attack them. Here's are some videos that I think should be watched to see how desperate these piggies are for war with India.

Why should India make a move when they are expecting. This is just a trap. They are just hawks and if they dont do these clown acts they will get discredited.

These guys are cowards who can only talk

RajaJi · Post by **RajaJi** » 10 Dec 2008 10:14

RajaJi wrote:
that was SRK (shah rukh khan) based on his imitation

Actually it is javed jaffrey, in this other video he describes the muslim artist in more detail, it points to javed jaffrey, he's a dancer(boogie woogie), choreographer, comedian, etc.,

I like what Sonu is saying, he's speaking from the heart. I like it when he says, that we hindus then should say babar started all this. good point.

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 10 Dec 2008 10:47

Acharya wrote:
RajaJi wrote: They are basically blaming it on elements within India. Basically, this pigs are saying that it was an inside job. And they are saying that it would be their good fortune if India starts a war with them. They are letting out a war cry, openly challenging India to attack them. Here's are some videos that I think should be watched to see how desperate these piggies are for war with India.
Why should India make a move when they are expecting. This is just a trap. They are just hawks and if they dont do these clown acts they will get discredited.

These guys are cowards who can only talk

Acharya ji,

Completely agree I think at this point rather than getting engaged in sabre rattling concentrate on organising the homefront first, we have good intelligence sources just need coherent management to utilise them correctly. They need funds that can be accessed with minimal bureaucracy. At this point if the Pak army moves from the northern and western provinces the Pakiban will get an absolute free reign (yes it seems that its a good thing from our POV, but we dont know what kind of shit will start cooking after they do). I dont care jack about Amrikhan but I think we need to consider the fallouts from this move.
It is important to organise the home front first simple reason is that if we take direct action there not only will be a direct response (definitely not as stron given our technological and numerical superiority) but also an asymetric response as seen in Mumbai. This is what the internal agencies will have to deal with and it would be better to get this sorted out first and asap.

I prefer a yehudi approach with massive counter espionage activities, destabilise the bas$%##s to the extent where they cant do jack. Unless and until they start feeling the heat these attacks will continue. We have so many clever minds, jugad of anything is our forte lets put is to some noble use

Time after time these attacks just prove our Gandhian approach "ek gaal pe jhapad mara in 06 (mumbai) to humne dusra gaal diya, phir saalon ne dusre gaal par mara (again in mumbai), ab kya karoge???" as munna bhai wisely put it bapu ne dusre gaal par mara to kya karneka bataya nahi to ab inki pakad ke g#$d maro.....(Mods sincere apologies please remove this para if found unsuitable)

Nothings going to happen right now directly until the general elections if the BJP gets its sh%$ sorted then they have a chance otherwise yindoos will just bend over and put kangress back to butt f$#k us.

just my 2 cents...

kbasu · Post by **kbasu** » 10 Dec 2008 10:47

Acharya wrote:
RajaJi wrote: They are basically blaming it on elements within India. Basically, this pigs are saying that it was an inside job. And they are saying that it would be their good fortune if India starts a war with them. They are letting out a war cry, openly challenging India to attack them. Here's are some videos that I think should be watched to see how desperate these piggies are for war with India.
Why should India make a move when they are expecting. This is just a trap. They are just hawks and if they dont do these clown acts they will get discredited.

These guys are cowards who can only talk

War will come, but not at their convenience. It will come at our convenience. I was reading an article http://news.cnet.com/Hidden-travels-of- ... icksArea.0 where it is basically clear that Pakistan got its nukes from China. The article goes on to say that China would emerge as the last man standing from nuke war which it fully expects to happen in the sub continent. Now question to gurus in this blog is how well is India prepared for second strike. Can India take out Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Nanjing and all the industrial hubs of China in a second strike?

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 10 Dec 2008 11:10

we should give some nukes to Taiwan and japan may be.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 10 Dec 2008 11:12

During times when all our celebrities are wrapping themselves in the cloak of pseudo-secularism and pathetic displays of fake nationalism, it was a breath of fresh air to see atleast one artist (Sonu Nigam) has the guts to come out and call a spade a spade and bluntly take on the very people he depends on for his livelihood. What he said makes absolute sense and more importantly it seems to come straight from his heart without pandering to any specific audience or agenda.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 10 Dec 2008 11:16

pmund wrote:Combo pic of the ********

One news report said the terrorists wore body armour. How far is it true?? Is this the reason why all of them were shot multiple times in the head (one was shot through both eyes, will try to upload the pic)

NSG usually train to take out hostiles using 'double tap' - 2 shots to the head whenever possible. It seems one of the commandos considered himself a superior artiste coz he applied one shot to each eye!