Indian Response to Terrorism

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 10 Dec 2008 17:41

Check out this regional analysis and the dimensions of regional geo-politics/"Great Game" chessboard that has major bearing upon India;s response,US actions and the Paki/Taliban gameplan,in detail in the other thread.

Here's Bhadrakumar again and a roadmap to containing the Taliban/Pashtuns.
http://www.hindu.com/2008/12/10/stories ... 581000.htm

Pakistani military and the Afghan problem
M.K. Bhadrakumar

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Dec 2008 18:07

ndtv.com

China thrice blocked moves in UNSC to ban Jamaat
Press Trust of India
Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:06 PM (New York)

Three attempts to proscribe Jamaat-ud-Dawah, the frontal organisation of the Pakistan-based terror outfit Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT), in the United Nations Security Council were blocked by China in the past, and now all eyes would be on what Beijing does on the fresh move to ban the outfit.

The sanctions committee of the Council had circulated a note to its members that the United States, backed by Britain and France, had twice tried to add JuD chief Hafiz Mohammed Saeed to the list of individuals and organisations connected to terrorism in May 2007, but the move was blocked by China, according to a note circulated in the UNSC on Wednesday.

A similar attempt directed against the organisation in April 2006 was also blocked by China, the note said.

Now India has put in a formal request for declaring JuD as a terrorist outfit for its involvement in the Mumbai terror attacks. New Delhi has also asked for freezing of assets of the organisation.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 10 Dec 2008 18:30

GD,

I posted about the Dragon's malfeasance on LeT several times here. Why is this a surprise.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 10 Dec 2008 19:49

I am not sure what India is trying to achieve through the demand for ban on JuD at the UN. By focusing on something which seems so apparently doable and if Pakistan does take some window-dressing steps in response, we might very well be giving up the opportunity for more punitive steps.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 10 Dec 2008 19:55

Arjun wrote:I am not sure what India is trying to achieve through the demand for ban on JuD at the UN. By focusing on something which seems so apparently doable and if Pakistan does take some window-dressing steps in response, we might very well be giving up the opportunity for more punitive steps.

precursor to declaring Pakistan a terrorist state - which will not be eligible for any IMF, World Bank largesse nor any FDI, etc., etc. - time to eat more grass

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 10 Dec 2008 19:59

Banning JuD internationally, while nowhere close to sufficient, is a necessary step IMHO. Doing so will force TSP to close all JuD offices and the fronts of charity which are used to collect funds. If we add to this a declaration from UN of specific individuals like Hafiz Saeed, Makki, Lakhvi etc. as terrorists, the TSP govt will be forced to freeze their financial accounts and drastically curtail their public appearances.

Now, TSP being the terrorist state it is, will find ways to work around all this. These guys will get accounts in fake names etc. but the cost of doing business will be higher. Anyone in UAE, for instance, will not be able to donate to JuD after a UN ban.

It's a small step, but will add huge costs for TSP's terror sponsoring efforts.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Dec 2008 20:18

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/US_w ... 819808.cms "Also, Americans were killed, which gave the United States a special responsibility," Rice said.

There are victims from nations which is ready to destroy pakistan to hell, as well. to name a few, Israel.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 10 Dec 2008 20:38

Rangudu wrote:Banning JuD internationally, while nowhere close to sufficient, is a necessary step IMHO.

Fine. But it is equally necessary to accompany that step by demonstrating once for all that we will preempt pakis from recycling JuD to read something else tomorrow like they did when JeM was "banned". We need to actually take out a few of "The 20" and maybe a couple of ISI types. That demonstration is not just for pakis but for the whole world. We have global sympathy right now like we never had and I can bet my testimonials that pakis will not be able to retaliate but if they do, I would consider that another priceless gift.

This is the best opportunity since 1971 to slice pakis' legs off and I hope we don't p!ss it away. At the very least, we should force a resettlement of Indians in Kashmir valley to pre 1989 levels and drop Article 370. Do whatever it takes to make this happen in 6 months, while we still have global sympathy, and deal with the locals accordingly. This is not only justifiable by any "secular" court in the world but it puts a knife an inch away from the paki jugular--a major H&D issue which will hasten paki disintegration. We will not get another chance like this for decades.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Dec 2008 21:03

An attack on TSP terrorist infrastructure and command structure will not cross any redlines for the TSP's exisitnece in not at stake. TSP by sponsoring the terrorist attack has allowed this loop hole to develop.

Also watch the PRC. It has been an all points facilitator of the TSP from nukes to terrorism. So if the TSP while collapsing nukes India PRC is a fair target. They wont be the last man standing.

This is a definite outcome of such a strategy. It is in PRC interests that TSP doesn't use a nuke for they will also fly if not toast.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 10 Dec 2008 21:07

Whats in a name , today its JuD, tommorow it would be something else. And btw placing that guy under house arrest is the biggest joke by porkis

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 10 Dec 2008 21:10

Gurulog,
Of what use would this ban be? Because, a name-ke-waste ban on JuD would be useless unless bakis arrest and jail the people involved. IIRC, the JUD arose after burying an old organisation.

So what is the guarantee that while the current jud is banned and "disbanded", another organisation named xyz wouldn't come up with the same actors featuring in it?

Apologies if my question doesn't make sense.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Dec 2008 21:18

tsriram wrote:Gurulog,
Of what use would this ban be? Because, a name-ke-waste ban on JuD would be useless unless bakis arrest and jail the people involved. IIRC, the JUD arose after burying an old organisation.

So what is the guarantee that while the current jud is banned and "disbanded", another organisation named xyz wouldn't come up with the same actors featuring in it?

Apologies if my question doesn't make sense.

What this shows is TSP agrees there are terrorist orgs operating from its territory despite the intl asusrance of its government in 2002. If the pressure is intense to hand them over now that they are under arrest and banned they will even kill them or stage a heart attack than hand over the pigs. And this will set off its own dynamic inside TSP for better or worse.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 10 Dec 2008 21:23

China will block the motion again, no doubt. Makes me wonder, if Nehru saab had accepted the invitation to India as a permanent UNSC member, instead of very generously donating it to our Chini bhai, things would be so much changes now..Bhai koi time machine bana lo, shri daanveer Nehru ko jaake samjhana hai mujhe!

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 10 Dec 2008 21:26

TSPA/ISI believe in the credo of the criminal i.e. "better you than me." If we can use international pressure to force TSPA to shaheedize or even publicly try and imprison pigLeTs, then it will create cleavages in the TSPA-jihadi network and even within TSPA and ISI.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 10 Dec 2008 21:43

NRao wrote:Paks rider to quiz top terrorists

good. something to look forward to ! may be they will ask derek o'brien to be the quizmaster.

seriously, why do the news outlets even bother reporting this ?

RayC wrote:...........
Gul in colloquial Bengali means a 'far fetched story' or lies if you wish.

Therefore, Hamid has an appropriate surname!

a very important point !

suddenly much of gulbaj's utterances make sense !

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 10 Dec 2008 21:50

Rangudu wrote:Banning JuD internationally, while nowhere close to sufficient, is a necessary step IMHO. Doing so will force TSP to close all JuD offices and the fronts of charity which are used to collect funds. If we add to this a declaration from UN of specific individuals like Hafiz Saeed, Makki, Lakhvi etc. as terrorists, the TSP govt will be forced to freeze their financial accounts and drastically curtail their public appearances.

Now, TSP being the terrorist state it is, will find ways to work around all this. These guys will get accounts in fake names etc. but the cost of doing business will be higher. Anyone in UAE, for instance, will not be able to donate to JuD after a UN ban.

It's a small step, but will add huge costs for TSP's terror sponsoring efforts.

We are not talking about a publically traded company here.

JuD will be closed and its assets sold to JuD-II. It will take another 9/11 11/26 for the JuD-II to be declared a terrorist organization.

The cleansing has to start from the top of the TSP establishment and go way down.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Dec 2008 21:56

X-posted.. from China thread...

nikhil_t wrote:Surprising and shocking :
China vetoed 3 times against banning JuD - Lashkar Front

Its all geopolitical play to keep India down and occupied. China had nothing to lose if this organisation Jamaat-ud-Dawah got banned. No reason for India to be so apologetic about the Tibetan protests now. It has been seen that their weakest link in international affairs is Tibet and Taiwan, more reason for us to get more proactive and strong (like Sarkozy, Nancy Peloski among others).

Also read the "nuke express" article in the proliferation thread. Its all PRC strategy to engulf the world in atomic warfare and remain last man standing. Something that Mao said should be recalled. He said in any exchange scenario there will be 300m Chinese left in the world. That is their belief and source of confidence. That has to be taken away.

The shock is because folks have one -dimensional veiw of PRC and its TSP relationship. To the contrary PRC-TSP relationship is an all points one and not just confined to the nuke field.

This is why I say that PRC should and will be targetted if any TSP nuke lands in India. I said this many times.

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 10 Dec 2008 22:06

Lalmohan wrote:precursor to declaring Pakistan a terrorist state - which will not be eligible for any IMF, World Bank largesse nor any FDI, etc., etc. - time to eat more grass

This is India's version of Economic sanctions against Pakistan. Just like the US sanctions against Iraq after Gulf War I crippled Iraq's military fighting capability to near zero, the aims here are similar.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 10 Dec 2008 22:13

This is why I say that PRC should and will be targetted if any TSP nuke lands in India. I said this many times.

there are also the reports of pak missile bases in KSA.
only an Indian samson option might work against PRC, KSA and other TSP stake-holders.

that said, I believe conventional nuclear deterrence remains valid in the china-India scenario.
economically PRC has moved far away from mao's era and the current stakes are high enough for PRC not to want a direct nuclear confrontation.

a nuke exchange restricted to Indian and TSP would of course be entirely to china's advantage.

pran · Post by **pran** » 10 Dec 2008 22:33

Gurus, if possible can answer some questions
1. Is India running out of options that it needs to goto UN to complain against Pakistan ?
2. Why suddenly the Chinese dimension to problem need to be highlighted ?

It seems the logic GOI/TOI is spinning is we know Paki is bad, and Chinese is the biggest and baddest in town so we are hamstrung.

Mango public please wait for the next terrorist episode and the same drama for non action.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 Dec 2008 23:07

Rangudu wrote:TSPA/ISI believe in the credo of the criminal i.e. "better you than me." If we can use international pressure to force TSPA to shaheedize or even publicly try and imprison pigLeTs, then it will create cleavages in the TSPA-jihadi network and even within TSPA and ISI.

R,

I think the Mumbai attack is due two factors:
1) This is a guess, but a plausible one: because of Obama's comment on Kashmir and its predictable consequences. It is for this alone one can expect the established powers to at the very least support such activities - to force the issues on Kashmir (and hope that things will go their way - it seems to have backfired and Obama would not go down that path anyways, even without the Mumbai attacks)
2) The more probable reason, IMHO, is that the U.S. pressure to act on the A'stan border was getting to be effective. IF this is true then the PA was about to shoot at its own foot: ISI + terrorist groups - the very tool used to keep check on the region. It is to prevent this "cleavages in ....." that you talk of that they needed a predictable path to undo.

I think while all this was going on there was some hangama in Kabul that we missed due to the brightness of the Mumbai attack.

IMHO even a democratically elected government in Pakistan cannot create this "cleavage". Not possible, not even in Bush's dream.

I am predicting that by 2020 there will be a genuine attempt to Islamise India.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 10 Dec 2008 23:16

NRao wrote:
Rangudu wrote:I am predicting that by 2020 there will be a genuine attempt to Islamise India.

The same thought occured to me last week as i mentioned EJs and Jihadis are competeing ,fighting and the prize is India and Indians as ususal are not even aware of the game becuase of PS propoganda and bumbling Foolish Liberals of Politics(FLOP)

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 Dec 2008 23:19

Zardari Shelves Tolerance Amid Pakistan’s Aid Needs (keep some salt handy)

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 Dec 2008 23:22

'We are ready any time,' warn Taliban

How the Taliban Hopes to Choke the US Afghanistan Mission

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Dec 2008 23:38

Rahul M wrote:
This is why I say that PRC should and will be targetted if any TSP nuke lands in India. I said this many times.
there are also the reports of pak missile bases in KSA.
only an Indian samson option might work against PRC, KSA and other TSP stake-holders.

that said, I believe conventional nuclear deterrence remains valid in the china-India scenario.
economically PRC has moved far away from mao's era and the current stakes are high enough for PRC not to want a direct nuclear confrontation.

a nuke exchange restricted to Indian and TSP would of course be entirely to china's advantage.

I know its abhorrent but its more like Ashwathama's option and not Samson option. Lets stick to Indic examples as we make our own discourse.

NRao, its the US -TSP dynamic that alwasy results in India getting the blowback. It has happened even earlier. When the TSP was confident of the US support they would formally attack India (1965 & 1971). When there is loss of support they attack India to make the US rush in to internationalize the matters (Kargil). The US is using the Mumbai terrorists attack to get concessions. After 9/11 it was the Indian offer to provide bases ot US expediotnary forces that made the TSP offer their own bases per Msuhy in his interview to REdiff on Sept 26, 2001. He said "India ne hamara khel khatam kiya!" Should still be in the archives of that site. Unfortunately Colin Powell felt preserving the TSP for later use was more important than defanging the terror infrastructure in TSP. And it was Colin Powell that was TSP's best friend in the Kunduz, Tora Bora and other Dunkirks. Wonder what his Jamaican ancestry was?
Anyway back to topic, Indian force mobilization is the stick that US is using to get the TSP to act. If there is no mobilization in any form there wouldnt be the concessions we see.

I also think the Zardari nonchalance about control of nukes to Rice also upset them as it invokes Kissinger's assurance on non-use of nukes after WWII.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 Dec 2008 23:40

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/washi ... ?ref=world

Bush Warns Pakistan as He Defends Military Strategy

By CHARLIE SAVAGE
Published: December 9, 2008

WEST POINT, N.Y. — President Bush on Tuesday defended his doctrine of military intervention to shut down potential national security threats before they mature, and he issued a pointed message to Pakistan that “we will do what is necessary to protect American troops and the American people.”

Mr. Bush delivered the remarks during a speech at the United States Military Academy at West Point, where he first enunciated the “Bush doctrine” of preventive attack in 2002.

As he prepares to relinquish power, that assertive doctrine seems likely to recede, although President-elect Barack Obama has also warned that he will take whatever steps are necessary to hunt down terrorists or to prevent such dangers as the emergence of a nuclear-armed Iran. And the dangers Mr. Bush spoke of, particularly in Afghanistan and Pakistan, will continue to confront Mr. Obama and his national security team, which includes Mr. Bush’s current defense secretary and top military commanders.

In the speech on Tuesday, Mr. Bush pointed to “the terrible attack in Mumbai” last month as a demonstration that terrorists still posed serious challenges, and he said that his successors should continue his military and diplomatic strategies to defeat them.

“In the years ahead, our nation must continue developing the capabilities to take the fight to our enemies across the world,” Mr. Bush said. “We must stay on the offensive.”

Mr. Bush singled out Pakistan for both praise and criticism. He said that the Pakistani government and people were working to defeat terrorism “because they have been victims of terror themselves.”

But he also pointed to the ungoverned tribal areas along Pakistan’s border with Afghanistan, where fighters of the Taliban and Al Qaeda have found a home, as a “pronounced” problem, saying that while the United States supported Pakistan’s efforts to assert control over those regions, it would also take action if necessary.

Mr. Bush’s comments came in the context of several recent flare-ups involving American military and intelligence action in Pakistan, and just after a brazen attack by militants there against the supply lines for allied forces in Afghanistan.

In recent months, a number of American missile attacks in the tribal areas, including some that were said to have killed civilians, as well as at least one foray by American commandos, have inflamed tensions with Pakistan. While Washington has sought to ease these differences, Mr. Bush’s comments seemed to defend just that type of action.

During the presidential campaign, Mr. Obama asserted repeatedly that he would be willing to launch an attack in Pakistan if the United States had information about terrorists’ whereabouts and Pakistan refused to act, a stance that was scorned by his rival, Senator John McCain.

Most of the president’s remarks covered familiar territory, starting with how the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, prompted an overhaul of national security policies at home and abroad, including the creation of the Department of Homeland Security, increased surveillance of communications and financial transfers, and his resolve to go “on the offensive against the terrorists overseas so we never had to face them here at home.”

Mr. Bush also spoke of his administration’s efforts to transform the military, including increasing the use of remote-controlled aircraft, overhauling military counterinsurgency training, moving troops away from cold war garrisons and closer to potential hot spots, building a missile-defense system and giving Special Operations forces the lead role in the global fight against terrorists.

Still, Mr. Bush acknowledged that not everything had gone according to plan on his watch. In particular, he said that “the battle in Iraq has been longer and more difficult than expected,” but he also said that today “the fight in Iraq nears a successful end.” He credited his decision to send a so-called surge of troops to Iraq, instead of withdrawing, for progress there.

Mr. Bush also said that the results of his strategy of promoting democracy and civil societies to counter the ideology of extremist Islam — rather than taking what he called the easy option of installing “friendly strongmen” in places like Iraq — were “unfolding slowly and unevenly.”

Still, he said, there were encouraging signs, including elections in Iraq.

Finally, while Mr. Bush mentioned the killing or capture of hundreds of Qaeda members around the world, including Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the accused mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, he also noted that Al Qaeda’s top leaders, Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahri, whom Mr. Bush did not identify by name, have evaded capture.

“Al Qaeda’s top two leaders remain at large,” he said. “Yet they are facing pressure so intense that the only way they can stay alive is to stay underground. The day will come” — he broke off to repeat himself with greater emphasis — “the day will come when they receive the justice they deserve.”

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 11 Dec 2008 02:12

Indian response to Terrorism is possible only when India becomes very powerful. At this time India has to work with Israel, US and even with others to become more powerful not militarily but in combat attacks. Such as transport and arms for rescuing the kidnapped people without much deaths of victims, attacking those targets of terror centres and training places, and then making entries into those places where people need to be captured and so on.

So now if such arms and means available then target those places where those terrorists are kept and even sending armed personals to capture and bring them for trials in India without permission of Pakistan. Some of these things can be done as joint effort of US and other international countries who are affected by terror and are on the offense on the terror.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 11 Dec 2008 04:46

joshvajohn, just to get perspective could you please provide details of expertise (not technology or capability) of handling such terror (real events) as witnessed recently by mumbai? i.e., mad jihadist just running over and killing merciless, (kindly remember this is not at ransom, negotiating terrorists, but who have come with a mission to kill thats' all).. and within their mission they have held hostages to prevent themselves to being killed, or preserving themselves for maximum time they can get to do the damage.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 11 Dec 2008 08:24

Ban this and that. Pakis are willing too. BUT, here is THE reason:

Pakistan invokes the ‘K’ word

New Delhi: Pakistan on Tuesday responded to India’s call for the United Nations to act against the Jamat-ud-Dawah and other organisations linked to the Mumbai terrorist attacks by saying it would ban the outfit if asked by the U.N. to do so. But it also added the diplomatic equivalent of a non-sequitur by invoking the ‘K’ word and calling for terrorism’s “root causes” to be addressed.

Speaking at a special session on terrorism of the Security Council, Pakistan’s U.N. ambassador began by saying he was “deeply troubled” by what had happened in Mumbai. “The best outcome of the tragedy,” he said a few seconds later, “would be the resolution of the issue of Kashmir.”

Exercising its right of reply, the Indian delegation responded by stressing the important issue was that terrorist groups had used Pakistani territory to launch attacks against India. “That country must take real action against those groups, instead of bringing up extraneous issues,” an Indian diplomat told the Council.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 11 Dec 2008 08:25

Let us see who is sitting in the wings that made this deal.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 11 Dec 2008 08:28

Internet Co to reveal who terrorists called in Pak

Indian agencies taped about 60 hours of conversations between terrorists and someone in Pakistan who was guiding them, giving them pep talks and reading Quranic verses to whoever felt weak or scared

By Deeptiman Tiwary
Posted On Thursday, December 11, 2008 at 04:16:05 AM

The Crime Branch of the Mumbai police has traced the company that provided the Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) service used by the 26/11 terrorists to keep in touch with their bosses.

The US-based company, Call Phoenix, has apparently confirmed that the terrorists spoke to someone based in Pakistan.

According to the Crime Branch, investigators have taped nearly 60 hours of the conversation that occured between the terrorists and someone in Pakistan during the terror attacks.

The person has been identified as their handler Zaki-ur-Rehman alias Lakhwi, who is an LeT Commander.

He was in constant touch with the terrorists while they battled commandos at Hotel Taj, Hotel Trident-Oberoi and Nariman House.

Lakhwi was detained by Pakistani officials on Sunday.

The sleuths learnt that Lakhwi was guiding the terrorists about police and commando movements by following the developments on TV.

He was also giving them pep talks and reading Quranic verses to whoever felt weak or scared.
The investigations have also found that money for the VoIP service was paid through a renowned international money transfer company.

Sources said about $300 was transferred to the VoIP company by someone named Zarar Shah. The New Jersey-based company removed its profile from the Internet after finding itself embroiled in a terror conspiracy.

These details could be another crucial piece of evidence linking Pakistan to the November 26 terror attacks.Crime Branch chief Rakesh Maria said the department is in touch with the company for details of the users of the VoIP.

A senior Crime Branch officer said, “All the evidence being gathered is passed on to the state home ministry, which passes it on to the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA). The MEA is trying to build international consensus against Pakistan on the basis of this evidence.”

EVIDENCE POINTING TO PAKISTAN

The Crime Branch already has a long list of evidence linking people in Pakistan to the terror attacks. These include:

• Materials recovered from Kuber, the trawler hijacked by the terrorists to reach Mumbai. The materials were manufactured in Pakistan.

• Arms and ammunition recovered after the terrorists were killed have distinct markings of companies based in Pakistan.

• The names of captured terrorist Ajmal Amir Qasab’s parents have been found in Pakistan’s electoral rolls.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Dec 2008 08:55

Which is the VoIP phone company based in New Jersey?

samuel.chandra · Post by **samuel.chandra** » 11 Dec 2008 09:18

Thats the million dollar question. The statements coming out of US govt are strange. At this time, I think their strategy is:
- Avoid a war between India and Pakistan at all costs (to save their supply route and avoid a nuke war).
- They want to address MMS's fear of BJP using this in the national election by releasing the history of the 2001 military mobilization (by showing that BJP never had any intention of crossing the border). This is probably a veiled threat to release more information if BJP goes ahead with using mumbai for elections. That should scare every Indian...they seem to think, they can influence over our political parties (and if this theory comes out to be true, shame on MMS to have taken massa's help in fighting BJP).
- The UN banning was also probably done with american backing. They have no problems dealing with the politicians in India, the citizens though, they have no control over. All these parties are waiting impatiently for this to die down. Until then, their plan is to muddy the waters by various toothless bannings.
- They want to use the fear of unleashing India to get concessions from Pakistan (remember the Bush administration is very desperate to show some major accomplishments).
- They are scared of the paki irrationational behavior (nook-response and their ability to block aid to afghanistan). The pakis understand this fear. The american approach in this case is truly pathetic and ball-less.

NRao wrote:Either the U.S is shepherding on India's behalf or is using India to achieve her own ends.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 11 Dec 2008 09:33

Since the attack on India's financial capital was with the intention of causing economic damage to India, our response must include an economic weapons as well.

Shri.Manmohan Singhji can start using his Brahmastra of economics on Pakistan.

12 steps to shock-and-awe Pakistan's economy
Link

I did not anticipate the huge response my inbox received for the article slamming Pakistan. Many of those who wrote in have sought concrete steps to tackle the Terror Central.

The terror attack on world citizens at Mumbai has created revulsion and outrage all over the world. It is imperative that India seize the opportunity provided to destabilise Pakistan.

A stable Pakistan is not in the interest of world peace, leave alone India. Army controls the country and owns its economy.

A significant portion of its GDP is due to army-controlled entities (See: Military Inc - Inside Pakistan's Military Economy, by Ayesha Siddiqa; OUP; 2007). One can easily say that Pakistan economy and its Army/ISI are synonymous.

* Light a candle for the fallen
* Terror strikes at Mumbai's heart

Unless this elementary fact is internalised, we are not going anywhere. This implies we should stop talking of a stable Pakistan since a stable Pakistan means multiple attacks on many more cities of India by that rogue organisation ISI, which is the core of the Pakistan Army and the heart of Pakistan's economy.

Let us not even assume that Zardari is in control. Poor man -- he did not trust his own investigators to probe his wife's assassination -- he wanted Scotland Yard to do the job. Now he blabbers that if his investigators are satisfied, then he will initiate action against terrorists sitting inside Pakistan.

Periodically, the Pakistan Army likes to present some useful idiots (as Lenin would have called them) as elected representatives and we swoon over such events.

India should take the following steps to destabilise the economy of Pakistan:

1. Identify the major export items of Pakistan (like Basmati rice, carpets, etc) and provide zero export tax or even subsidise them for export from India. Hurt Pakistan on the export front.

2. Identify the major countries providing arms to Pakistan and arm twist them. Tell Brazil and Germany (currently planning to supply massive defense items to Pakistan) that it will impact their ability to invest in India. Tell Germany that retail license to Metro will be off and other existing projects will be in jeopardy.

3. Incidentally, after the arrival of Coke and Pepsi in China, the human rights violations of China are not talked about much by US government organs. Think it is a coincidence? Unless we use our markets to arm-twist arms exporters to Pakistan, we will not achieve our objectives.

4. Tell American companies that for every 5% increase in FDI limit for them, their government needs to reduce equipping Pakistan by $5 billion. That is real politics, not whining. Let us remember that funds are in desperate search of emerging markets and not the other way about. Let us also remember that international economics is politics by another name.

5. Create assets to print/distribute their currency widely inside their country. To some extent, Telgi types can be used to outsource this activity. Or just drop their notes in remote areas.

6. Pressurise IMF to add additional conditionality to the loans given to them or at least do not vote for their loans.

7. Create assets within Pakistan to destabilise Karachi stock market - it is already in a shambles.

8. Cricket and Bollywood are the opium of the Indian middle classes. Both have been adequately manipulated/ controlled by the D-company since the eighties. Chase the D-company money in cricket/ Bollywood and punish by burning D-assets in India instead of trying to have them auctioned by the IT department when nobody comes to bid for it.

9. Provide for capital punishment to those who fund terror and help in that. We have the division in the finance ministry to monitor money laundering, etc. It is important that terror financing is taken seriously and fully integrated into money laundering monitoring systems and this division is provided with much larger budget and human resources. And it should coordinate with RAW.

10. Encourage and allow scientists/ academicians/ elites of Pakistan to opt for Indian passport and widely publicise that fact since it will hurt their self-respect and dignity. There will be a long queue to get Indian passports -- many will jump to get our passport -- since they will not be stopped at international airports. It is rumoured that Adnan Sami wants one. Do not give passports to all -- make it a prized possession. Let it hurt the army- and ISI-controlled country. This one step will destroy their identity and self-confidence.

11. Discourage companies from India from investing in Pakistan, particularly IT companies, till Pakistan stops exporting its own IT (international terrorism).

12. In all these, it is important that we do not bring in the domestic religious issues. The target is the terror central, namely Pakistan, and if there are elements helping them here then they also should be punished -- irrespective of religious labels. If Pakistan is dismantled and the idea of Pakistan is gone, many of our domestic issues will also be sorted out.

Will the Indian elite go for the jugular or just light more candles and scream at the formless/ nameless political class before TV cameras?

It is going to be a long haul and may be in a decade or so, we can find a solution to our existential crisis of being attacked by barbarians from the West. We need to combine strategy and patience and completely throw to the dustbin the 'Gujral Doctrine' by that mumbling prime minister about treating younger brothers with equanimity. The doctrine essentially suggests that if we are slapped on both the cheeks we should feel bad that we do not have a third cheek to show.

He, according to security experts, seems to have dismantled our human intelligent assets inside Pakistan, which has resulted in the gory death of thousands of Indian citizens in the last few years.

Such is our strategic thinking in this complex world since our political class is not adequately briefed and the elite don't think through issues. Better to be simple in our talks and vicious in our actions rather than the other way.

Hopefully, this November attack will create a new vibrant India capable of taking care of its own interests.

AniB · Post by **AniB** » 11 Dec 2008 09:40

This is the classic Tajik hat as in Northern Afghanistan area. Ahmed Shah Masood wearing Afghan Hat

Do LeT and JuD have some historical Tajik connections?

Prof. Hafiz Mohammed Saeed

Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi

Dawa chief Abdul Aziz Alvi in Muzaffarabad. (AFP)

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 11 Dec 2008 09:40

8 things India Inc, govt must do against Pakistan
Link

The three-day-long terror strike on the country's financial capital was devastating in terms of its reach and impact. It has left Corporate India badly shaken and the elites numb.

It is no more about bombs being thrown at bus stations or trains getting blasted. It is no longer about only Nagpada or Govindpuri residents losing limbs and lives. Terror has now climbed up the value chain.

As the new age entrepreneur Kiran Majumdar Shaw told a Bangalore newspaper, "So far, the terrorists targeted common people. Now the society's elite, the business sector, is the target. What happened in Mumbai is a loud wake-up call for all of us to do something to protect ourselves."

Corporate India did not bat an eyelid when Mumbai train blasts took place, or when Sarojini Nagar was burning on a Diwali day, or Hyderabad was weeping two years before.

But today, every corporate captain is angry, and so are the celebrities who people Page 3 of newspapers, due largely because the attacks on the three top hotels were directly aimed at those who frequent these places, for business or pleasure (contrast this with the scant coverage of the carnage at the Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus, for example, where commoners were involved).

All the same, the bleeding-heart liberals would be back to their routine ways after a few days. They will lament that the captured terrorist has not been given his favourite food and not allowed to watch TV or use his cell phone; they will say his human rights are violated. Just wait for the chorus.

Of course, this time it will be between Page 3 and the jholawalas (activists) and that should be an interesting match to watch, but that's another story.

In the last ten years, not a single session of any seminar sponsored by the CII or Ficci or business/general journals has focussed on terrorism. When this writer once broached the importance of talking about it, a senior business captain said it is for the government to deal with.

Many of those seminars gave importance to Musharraf and now Zardari, as if they are going to provide any solution when they are a part of the problem.

Now, at least, terrorism is being realised as a problem facing the country.

Let us summarise what the real situation is and what the corporate sector should do if we are serious in fighting terrorism on our soil.

1. Recognise and treat Pakistan as a terrorist state. The state policy of Pakistan is terrorism and their single-point programme is to destroy India. This needs to be internalised by every business baron including the owners of media.

2. Now, the elite of Pakistan are more angry, since India is growing at 7% and they are given CCC rating and stiff conditions for borrowing from the IMF.

Many an academic from that country, who I have met in global conferences, has openly lamented that nobody talks about Indo-Pak relations anymore, but only Indo-China or Indo-American, etc. They want to be equal but they are in deep abyss.

3. Pakistan is the only territory in the world where an army has a whole country under its control. This is an important issue since studies have found that a large number of corporates in Pakistan are ultimately owned by the Fauji Foundation (FF), Army Welfare Trust (AWT) Bahria Foundation (BF), Shaheen Foundation (SF) all owned by different wings of armed forces (See paper presented by Dr Ayesha Siddiqa-Agha on 'Power, Perks, Prestige And Privileges: Military's Economic Activities In Pakistan' in The International Conference on Soldiers in Business -- Military as an Economic Actor; Jakarta, October 17-19, 2000).

Hence, do not try to think of Pakistan without its army, irrespective of who rules that country temporarily and nominally. At least 70% of the market capitalisation of the Karachi stock exchange is owned by the army and related groups.

4. There are three groups in India, who are obsessed with friendship with Pakistan. One is the oldies born in that part before partition and who are nostalgic about the Lahore havelis, halwas and mujras. The second is the Bollywood and other assorted groups, who look at it as a big market. The Dawood gang has financed enough of these useful idiots. The third is the candle light holding bleeding heart liberals (BHLs) who cannot imagine India doing well without its younger brother taken care of.

All three have been proved wrong hundreds of times, but they are also opinion makers. Shun them, avoid them and ridicule them.

5. We should categorically, unambiguously, unequivocally boycott Pakistan in all aspects for a decade or more. Be it art, music, economy, commerce, or other hand-holding activities. That army-controlled state has to realise that it has done enough damage to global civilisation.

More than 100 acts/attempts of terror recorded in the world since 9/11 have had their roots in Pakistan. More than 40% of the prisoners in Guantanamo are Pakistanis.

6. We should recognise that it is our war and nobody in the world is going to wage it on our behalf. What the Americans are thinking, or what the Britishers are going to do, will not help. A determined country should have a sense of dignity and independence to fight its war.

We should stop interviewing leaders from that country who mouth the same inanities that "you have not produced any proof." The Government of India should perhaps create a museum of proof between India Gate and North Block.

I am amazed that a country of a billion is required even to furnish proof. If one-sixth of humanity says that the terrorist state of Pakistan is the root cause of global terrorism -- it is factual. Let us not fall into the trap of providing proof to the culprits.

7. We should realise that a united Pakistan is a grave threat to the existence of India. Hence, we should do everything possible to break up Pakistan into several units. This is required to be done not only for our interest, but for world peace.

8. We have made a grave blunder by suggesting in the international fora that "Pakistan is also a victim of terror." That is a grave error and it will haunt us for decades. They are perpetrators and our government is in deep illusion if it tries to distinguish between organs of power in that country thinking it is like India.

There is only one organ, namely its army (with ISI as a sub-organ) in that country, which owns and controls at least 70% of the GDP in that country.

If we want the world to treat Pakistan for what it is, then we should start practising it. Always call it the 'terrorist state of Pakistan' and never have any illusion that it is going to be any different.

If corporate India, including electronic/ print media, starts practising this, we should see results in a few years. Are the elites listening?

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 11 Dec 2008 09:42

How true.

There are three groups in India, who are obsessed with friendship with Pakistan. One is the oldies born in that part before partition and who are nostalgic about the Lahore havelis, halwas and mujras. The second is the Bollywood and other assorted groups, who look at it as a big market. The Dawood gang has financed enough of these useful idiots. The third is the candle light holding bleeding heart liberals (BHLs) who cannot imagine India doing well without its younger brother taken care of.

I liked it very much.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 11 Dec 2008 09:47

From the North West originates an attack on India and Hindus. It is perpetrated by Muslims and inspired by their zeal for Islam. They come frome the NW down and kill with abandon.

There is no reason for the Hindus to take it lying down---they are rich, have a big military, have brave individuals, have a huge land mass. But yet they are unable to do anything. They yield and keep quiet, hoping that this will quiten the mad attackers.

This is the same story that has been repeated countless times for the last 1000 years. Attacks are as brutal, Hindu response is as spineless & clueless. Nothing has changed in the last 10 centuries. Nothing has been learned from the last 10 centuries. The story goes on ...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Dec 2008 09:50

AniB, JuD is the new name of L-e-T after Mushy imposed a fake ban in 2002.

x-posted about responses....

vina wrote:I have little faith in the UPA govt's ability to do anything at all for the economy beyond some insignificant tokenisms and soothing noises. That would require hard decision , that are simply not on during these times , so close to the election.

Atleast the chinese seem to have come to their senses wrt the oil prices. There , oil prices are no longer controlled. They have let it float, taking advantage of the falling prices.

The Indian govt should do the same immediately. The oil price trend is downwards. They should immediately scrap the Administered Pricing Mechanism for all oil products and let them float. Only then will we see some rationality return to oil pricing . If you need to subsidize some one, give direct cash transfers. For eg, let Kerosene prices rise, but let the poor/ below poverty population get direct cash transfers in lieu of 5 liters of Kerosene or whatever's subsidized price. The current scene is a disaster. My parents run their generator at home during power outages on highly subsdized kerosene!.. . They obviously dont get kerosene on their ration cards, but the servant maid has no use for the 15 liters or whatever she is entitled to. She gives it once in a couple of months for my parents on her card and it goes into the generator, and lasts for 2 months or so (generator kicks in only during power outages). I bet the same is true with every small shop in India (commercial st for eg), where the generators running on Kerosene are belching noxious smoke during power outages, all running on subsidized kerosene.. Notice that the generators are perfectly capable of running on petrol as well (since they are dual fuel) and produce far less pollutants in the bargain !..Another example of rank idiocy in the policy making in India.. Very similar to naptha being more expensive than diesel until very recently.

We need to crimp demand for petroleum. The runaway demand growth uses up foreign exchange and puts cash in the hands of terrorist financiers in Saudi and Dubai and other places. According to NY Times, the LeT facility at Muridke near Lahore is Saudi financed .. Pakiland is bailed out time and again by Soddy Barbaria with free oil credits when it is about to go down the toilet. Stop the cash and Pakiland goes under the toilet and theys start eating grass and start murdering and robbing each other and stop being a nuisance to others. No way in hell the civilized world should put cash in the hands of the barbarians. Let the Chi Com ding dongs get addicted to oil and sell their junk to the Soddies. The rest of the world should go another way.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 11 Dec 2008 10:16

Let Chinkis know about Sau bada patakhas waiting to turn kung pao lizard into seekh kabab and go on taking care of Pukes halal style. Dig a trench and punish the guilty jihadis Prophet Muhamad (SAW) style.