Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 11 Dec 2008 06:42

This UN ban should not be exaggerated but it should also not be underestimated. Think about it - TSP pulled strings THREE times to get the Dragon veto the ban, so it must not be without reason.

Firstly, TSP will have to ban JuD and ensure that Hafiz-e-suar-ka-bacha is not seen in public. Secondly, it will have to shut down all major known "educational institutions" and other terror recruiting factories for good. TSP citizens overseas donating for "earthquake relief" and "education" will face jail time if the money is known to go to JuD. Hafiz-e-pig cannot get visas officially to his favorite Islamic destinations. The Dawood Ibrahim analogy is wrong because unlike Dawood, Hafiz-e-pig is a public figure in TSP.

Now, we all know that some other terrorist leader will take his place and the ISI will find hawala and other sources for funding these groups. Also the terror against India will not stop because as long as the TSPA exists the hate will exist and they will find a way to kill Indians.

Where this will help us is that now TSPA will have to dismantle many parts of the LeT infrastructure because they will make choices on who to retain and who to make bali-ka-bakra. This will mean that we are likely to see many low and mid-level pigLeTs join the other disaffected jihadis to target their former mentors. Given the sheer scale of the LeT/JuD infrastructure, we are now talking about a schism that is much bigger than when the ISI was forced to give up some if its Deobandi assets.

The TSP terror machine will find new ways to survive, but the state of TSP will take a few more circles around the drain. This is no comfort to those of us wanting a quick blow to avenge Mumbai but for now this is what we have.

amit · Post by **amit** » 11 Dec 2008 07:03

More details on the ban here:

UN bans Jamaat-ud-Dawa; declares it a terror outfit

Now let's see if Pakistan also bans the organisation.

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 11 Dec 2008 07:05

FWIW. From the Wall St. Journal.

In Bid to Ease Tensions, U.S. Looks to History
By JAY SOLOMON

WASHINGTON -- U.S. diplomats working to defuse tensions between India and Pakistan are borrowing from a playbook the Bush administration used during a similar South Asia crisis seven years ago.

The strategy then and now, according to current and former U.S. officials, seeks to provide New Delhi and Islamabad the cover to pull their nuclear-armed countries back from a conflict, largely by extracting concessions that each side can sell to its public.

U.S. officials say they are pleased by the actions Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari has taken in recent days against Lashkar-e-Taiba, the militant organization that India and the U.S. believe orchestrated last month's assault on Mumbai that killed 171 people. Pakistani security forces have raided Lashkar camps and arrested some top commanders.

Still, American and European diplomats are concerned these actions might not be enough to assuage public outrage in India. Some U.S. officials say only Islamabad's extradition to India of key suspects -- which Mr. Zardari's government rejects -- may be enough to damp Indian calls for retaliation.

"Pakistan can show its good faith by extraditing a couple of these people," said a U.S. official working on the issue, although such a move would almost certainly bring a backlash against Mr. Zardari at home.

In return, India could agree to work with Pakistan in investigating the attacks -- allowing Islamabad to show Pakistanis they haven't surrendered control of the process. New Delhi has so far resisted Pakistan's invitation to form a joint investigative body.

U.S. diplomats who worked for almost a year in 2001-02 to avert war following terrorist strikes on India say the current U.S. diplomatic drive could play out over months.

U.S. officials refer to that standoff as the "twin peaks" crisis. It began in December 2001, after an attack on New Delhi's Parliament that killed 15 people prompted India to mobilize tens of thousands of troops on its northern border with Pakistan. Tensions spiked again in May, 2002 after Pakistani militants attacked an army base in India-controlled Kashmir, killing 30 people.

Then-Secretary of State Colin Powell and his deputy, Richard Armitage, embarked on shuttle diplomacy, assisted by British officials. American officials say they believed India's government, then led by Prime Minster Atal Bihari Vajpayee, didn't want to invade Pakistan. India's economy was riding a historic boom and New Delhi was taking a bigger role on the global stage.

"The Indian government was very fearful about undergoing a military action that could get out of hand," says Ashley Tellis of Washington's Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, who served as senior political officer in the U.S. Embassy in New Delhi at the time. "Vajpayee played a smart game of threatening to use force but getting the U.S. to put pressure on Pakistan through Armitage."

Washington also exploited both India's and Pakistan's uncertainty about how a conventional military exchange could escalate to the nuclear level. "We essentially had to say: 'Let us give you a lesson on escalation control from the Cold War,'" says Larry Wilkerson, who served as Mr. Powell's chief of staff during President George W. Bush's first term.

As a result of the crisis, Mr. Wilkerson says, both India and Pakistan developed better command and control over their nuclear arsenals.

Mr. Armitage eventually helped end the crisis by securing assurances in June 2002 from Pakistan's then-president and army chief, The Pervez Musharraf, that he would dismantle training camps for militants fighting in Kashmir.U.S. shared with New Delhi satellite photos of the camps being closed, according to former U.S. officials.

"The Indians needed a way to climb down from a tree, and we had to find a way to help them do it," says Kara Bue, a senior aide to Mr. Armitage at the time.

U.S. diplomats say today's rulers in India and Pakistan appear committed to a peaceful resolution. But they're also weaker politically than in the earlier crisis.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 11 Dec 2008 07:05

Looks like the Terroristanis were able to persuade China to block Hameed Gul and his ISI terrorist buddies from being banned, though.

amit · Post by **amit** » 11 Dec 2008 07:09

This will mean that we are likely to see many low and mid-level pigLeTs join the other disaffected jihadis to target their former mentors.

This could be an important point, especially in view of this recent report, posted on the previous page:

New Delhi: Jamaat-ud-Dawa’h, considered to be front organisation for the banned Lashkar-e-Toiba, on Wednesday warned India and Pakistan of dire consequences if banned by the Government of Pakistan under international pressure.

The warning came after Pakistan assured the UN Security Council that it would ban the organisation and take action against its leaders if the UNSC declared it a terrorist outfit.

A Jamaat-ud-Dawa’h spokesperson told The Indian Express from Lahore that Pakistan must resist the pressure being mounted by the international community at India’s behest.

There is likely to be sense of being abandoned at the hour of their "greatest" triumph in recent years among the LeT piglets.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 11 Dec 2008 07:24

Very broadly, the only way all this work out is IF India cleans up her act - no more this chalta hai attitude, and then turns around and makes TSP pay any time a terrorist comes across the LoC or via the C.

The prior will mean some scrutinizing of locals.

Also, to complete the picture the UN has enforce the work they just started. The UN will need to take the lead to enforce this "ban". With each transgression the ISI has to be made to pay.

This is no longer a Indo-Pak issue. It is and has to be made to be a UN issue. India then needs to fade from the enforcement.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 11 Dec 2008 07:26

ramana wrote:I recall seeng Javed Jaffery of Boogie Woogie give his version on Zeenews that it all started with Ayodhya. I thought why imply/involve Indian Muslims were involved when the terrorsts are clearly from TSP. So JJ was scoring a self goal and worse shows he is a Paki sympathiser more than an aggrieved Indian Mulsim when on Boogie Woogie he cultivates a natioanlist image.

What nationalist image the fellow has? All Javed Jaffri projects via Boogie Woogie is that of a chap with disturbing pedophilia tastes. How else can he justify anchoring a program that makes tiny little kids do sensuous dance duets with suggestive lyrics and motions? That program is a blot on Indian networks and should have strong regulatory controls over age appropriateness.

ss_roy · Post by **ss_roy** » 11 Dec 2008 07:51

I am sorry if this article is a repost. But this article has some peculiar unspoken implications.

Mumbai Terror Group Trained American Jihadists (http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/12/let-usa.html)

By Noah Shachtman December 10, 2008

A growing chorus of intelligence officials in the U.S. and in south Asia have pinned the Mumbai attacks on the Kashmir-based militants Lashkar-e-Taiba. But there's been hardly any mention of the extremist group's deep ties to American-based jihadists.

Since 2003, at least five U.S. citizens have been convicted in federal court of conspiring to provide material support to Lashkar-e-Taiba. At least nine more men, considered to be in the same larger circle, have been convicted of firearms violations and other felonies. (A partial list is here.) Several other cases are still making their way through the legal process.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 11 Dec 2008 08:06

http://publication.samachar.com/topstor ... d=14815927

‘LeT’s Indian point man helped smuggle attackers’

Wednesday, 10 December , 2008, 23:41

New Delhi: The Pakistani-based militant group blamed for the Mumbai attacks kept an Indian militant as a "point man" to shepherd gunmen across India's porous borders to stage attacks, police said on Wednesday.

Sabauddin Ahmed, accused of managing militant safe houses in Nepal, was being brought to Mumbai for questioning in last month's attacks that left 171 dead. Ahmed was arrested in February following a deadly raid on an Indian police station.

Ahmed's position in Nepal extends the reach of Lashkar-e-Toiba, the group investigators blame for the Mumbai siege, and could represent another blow to Indian officials who say Pakistan-based militants were entirely responsible.

"He was their main point man in Katmandu, a very trusted man by Lashkar," said Amitabh Yash, director of the police's Special Task Force in Uttar Pradesh, which arrested him.

Karachi payment for calls made by Mumbai terrorists

Police said it was too early to determine whether Ahmed was involved in the Mumbai siege, but he was arrested along with another Indian militant who was found with a map highlighting Mumbai targets. Police say the operative, Faheem Ansari, had been preparing for the attacks since 2007.

Ahmed told interrogators he had contacts with several officials from Pakistan's spy service, the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence, Yash said. "He named a lot of ISI officers," Yash said.

Islamabad's civilian government has denied its state agencies were involved in the Mumbai attacks, but said it was possible that the militants were Pakistanis. It has pledged to cooperate with India.

Rakesh Maria, Mumbai's chief police investigator, said on Wednesday that further evidence of links between the Pakistan-based Islamic charity Jemaat-ud-Dawa and Lashkar has emerged. He said the head of the charity Hafiz Mohammed Saeed gave a motivational speech to the 10 gunmen who attacked Mumbai at the end of their training.

UNSC calls for global solidarity against terror

India's junior foreign minister demanded on Tuesday that the UN Security Council declare Jemaat-ud-Dawa a terrorist group, saying it was a front for Lashkar, which was banned in 2002. Pakistan's Foreign Ministry spokesman, Mohammed Sadiq, declined comment.

Jamaat-ud-Dawa — which sprang up after Pakistan banned Lashkar in 2002 following US pressure — runs a chain of schools and medical clinics throughout the country and has helped survivors of two deadly earthquakes in recent years. It denies any links to Lashkar.

The 10 gunmen were trained principally by three senior Lashkar leaders, including the mastermind of the siege, Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, said Maria.

Officials have said Lakhvi was arrested on Sunday in a raid on a militant camp close to the Indian border. Another senior leader, Zarar Shah, was also in Pakistani custody, officials said.

In Russia, meanwhile, the head of that country's federal anti-narcotics agency said a notorious Indian gangster, Dawood Ibrahim, helped in the attack. Ibrahim "provided his logistics network for the preparation and implementation of the attacks," the government daily Rossiiskaya Gazeta quoted Viktor Ivanov as saying.

Khafa familiarised us with Mumbai’s layout: Kasab

India has said Ibrahim fled to Pakistan after staging the Mumbai bombings in 1993.

As is often the case when Russian law enforcement officials talk about terrorism, Ivanov gave no details and provided no actual evidence.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 11 Dec 2008 08:11

http://publication.samachar.com/topstor ... d=14815907

Has to keep his voters lined up I guess. Well, ............... as long as he knows how to bend over.............

Pakistan foreign minister talks of war

Wednesday, 10 December , 2008, 20:02

United Nations/Islamabad: The Mumbai terror strikes and the Pakistan-based Jamat-ud-Dawa were in focus at the UN Security Council with India demanding the group be branded a terrorist outfit and Pakistan stating that it would do so only after completing investigations, even as a Pakistani minister warned of a war in the sub-continent.

"We do not want to impose war, but we are fully prepared in case war is imposed on us," Pakistani Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi told reporters in Multan.

"We are not oblivious to our responsibilities to defend our homeland and it is a clear message. We want love and friendship, we want peace and stability in this region, but our peace mission should not be understood as the weakness of Pakistan," Qureshi added.

India claims the Jamat-ud-Dawa is a front organisation for the outlawed Lashkar-e-Taiba, which the UN branded a terrorist organisation in 2002 and which New Delhi blames for the November 26 Mumbai attacks that claimed at least 179 lives.

India not satisfied with Pak action: Minister

On Tuesday, India urged the UN Security Council to declare the Jamat-ud-Dawa a terrorist group.

"The Jamat-ud-Dawa and other such organisations need to be proscribed internationally and effective sanctions imposed against them," Indian Minister of State for External Affairs E. Ahamed told the 15-member council.

Bowing to India's demand and pressure from the international community, Pakistani Ambassador to the UN Abdullah Hussain Haroon told the Security Council that his country would ban the Jamat-ud-Dawa.

"The government of Pakistan has already initiated investigations on its own pertaining to the allegations of involvement of persons and entities in the Mumbai attacks," Haroon said.

"After the designation by the Indian government of the Jamat-ud-Dawa under 1267, the (Pakistani) Government upon receiving this instruction shall proscribe the JuD and take consequential action as required, including the freezing of assets," he added.

However, Pakistan on Wednesday took a defensive stand with National Security Advisor (NSA) Mahmud Ali Durrani stating that action would be taken against the Jamat-ud-Dawa if it was found guilty of terrorist activity after investigations were over and not because India said so.

Images: The men who attacked Mumbai

"If they (Jamat-ud-Dawa) are involved in terrorist activity, we will surely take action against them but only after investigations are over and not if India says so," Durrani told an Indian news channel.

The Mumbai terror attacks dominated the proceedings of the special meeting of the UN Security Council on Tuesday, wherein member nations not only condemned the heinous attack, but also underlined the need to bring those responsible for it to justice.

Briefing the members of the Security Council about the terrorist attacks, Ahamed said a group of 10 LeT terrorists reached Mumbai on the evening of November 26.

"Nine terrorists were killed in the action taken by our security forces while one of them was apprehended. His interrogation has revealed that they were trained in Pakistan and were launched from a ship from Karachi. They travelled into Indian waters, took control of an Indian boat, killing the crew. Thereafter, they came to Mumbai to cause mayhem and murder," Ahamed said.

Attacks originated from Pak soil, reiterates US

Without mentioning Pakistan, Ahamed said a deadly combination emerges when actions of terrorist groups are used to serve the political interests of states.

"A terror machine is created. India has had experience of such machines that need to be eliminated. The nexus between state - or elements within the state - and terror outfits must be broken and groups or individuals that indoctrinate, organise, plan and finance terror have to be uprooted along with other measures," he said.

The UN Security Council underlined the need to strengthen existing mechanisms and cooperation for a joint fight against terrorism.

This is essential to find, deny safe haven and bring to justice any person who supported, facilitated or participated in the financing, planning, preparation or commission of terrorist acts, the council said in a presidential statement read by Croatian President Stjepan Mesic.

‘Lakhwi to be tried only if India gives evidence’

"The attack in Mumbai at the end of last month was an attack on us all," said British Ambassador to the UN John Sawers. "We must all focus on helping the government of India in whatever ways we can to investigate these attacks and bring those responsible to justice."

The US reiterated that countries should deny safe haven to terrorists. So did Russian Ambassasor Vitaly I Churkin, who said it was "important to expose and neutralise terrorist networks, to block financial flows and to eliminate safe havens".

In his speech, the Pakistani envoy tried to link terrorism in the region to the Kashmir dispute.

"The best outcome of the (Mumbai) tragedy would be the resolution of the issue of Kashmir," Haroon said.

However, Indian diplomat Vikram Doraiswami rebutted his remarks, stating that Pakistan should concentrate on taking action against terrorists rather than harping on the Kashmir issue.

Commenting on the strain that the Mumbai terror attacks has put on India-Pakistan relations, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said the terrorists were "undoubtedly unnerved by the increasingly good relations between Pakistan and India" and wanted to disrupt bilateral ties.

Mumbai terror attack special

"Clearly, those who want to disrupt good relations between India and Pakistan were at root," Rice said in an interview on CBS News Radio.

She added: "These non-state actors clearly used Pakistani territory, and Pakistan therefore has a responsibility to act."

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 11 Dec 2008 08:20

amit wrote:More details on the ban here:

UN bans Jamaat-ud-Dawa; declares it a terror outfit

Now let's see if Pakistan also bans the organisation.

amit, Pakistan banned LeT, JeM, TNSM, Sipah-e-Sahaba on Jan. 15, 2002. As usual, it played a trick. The ban was *not* applicable in PoK, Northern Areas and FATA. Not that it matters because the ban itself was not enforced with any seriousness anywhere. The leaders were arrested or put under house arrest for sometime and released after some time.

LeT's Hafeez Sayeed continues to enjoy government protection whether it was a military ruler or a civilian ruler. Musharraf asked him to negotiate with the Ghazi of Lal Masjid along with Fazl-ur-Rehman of JUI-F, Chaudhry Shujat of PML-Q and Ejaz-ul-Haq the Religious Affairs Minister. The civilian government gives him a bullet proof Pajero/Landcruiser. He lives happily with his gun-toting security right in the heart of Lahore. The Muridke annual convention continues to attract political leaders who are over come with piety and jihadi fervour as soon as they enter the complex as Nawaz Sharif so amply demonstrated at this year's convention. That means that he has the backing of the most powerful organization, the ISI.

The case of Maulana Masood Azhar is even curioser. His men were involved in the murderous attempt on Gen. Musharraf and yet nothing happened to him. He was under house arrest at his home town Bahawalpur and in 2003 he simply disappeared. Yet, he roams the country with his entourage of AK-47 bearing bodyguards with no attempt to re-capture him.

In TNSM's case, the ban was revoked in May this year to enable Maulana Sufi Muhammad to enter into a peace agreement with the Government. It was a precursor for other peace agreements. All of them failed. Now the clever Maulana is saying that it should be his draft of the Shariah that should be enforced in Malakand.

No Pakistani government can hope to take action against these organizations and still survive. The whole Pakistani society is beyond repair and that is the challenge.

vdutta · Post by **vdutta** » 11 Dec 2008 08:31

The lone captured terrorist will be presented in a court today in mumbai.
may be we can get more information and pics of that pig today.
Hope they make proper security arrangements. he is the most prized head in the terrorist orgs and nation right now.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Dec 2008 09:10

I dont understand one matter about indian police and undertrials:

police release arrested guys name, details, his photo to the press. but when taken to
court they put a bag over their heads. even "group photos" of police and captured
criminals have this bag over head syndrome.

is it just to stimulate the local bag industry or because some H&D is sought
to be preserved ?

niran · Post by **niran** » 11 Dec 2008 09:25

The Law says" Innocent until proven guilty in a Court of law"

then there this law" if The Suspect insists on covering then a cover has to be provided"
the catch it has to asked by the suspects. All these was during when NEWS meant AIR
and TOI in the afternoon.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 11 Dec 2008 10:24

http://specials.rediff.com/news/2008/de ... rorist.htm

...

Soon after the terror strikes, the Maharshtra government announced it would set up a commando force for the state.

There is already a Quick Response Team that is set in place. When this (the attacks) happened it was dispersed. One didn't know where the QRT was. It was not used in a cohesive form. If you go to the Web site of the Mumbai police it will tell you that in terrorist and hostage situations, the QRT has been trained to overwhelm such kinds of acts.

So all these things are already there, if the police chief is not using it, what can be done?

...

A Arun · Post by **A Arun** » 11 Dec 2008 10:25

Major

on Paki TV channels after the JuD ban. One expert - "We need to speak up against this, they can't against Pakistan like this, we can't let India do this to us, tomorrow they'll pass a resolution against our nuclear weapons"

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 11 Dec 2008 11:22

Times Now showing Advani Speaking in Parliament. Emphaticall declaring that "Islam has nothing to do with terrorism" while talking abot LET.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 11 Dec 2008 11:40

Advani's speech in Parliament on right now.

He spoke about distinctly naming Pakistan in the UNSC resolution and called the govt on why they didn't do so.

And about the fact that Pukistan does the song and dance routine every time there is pressure on them. They arrest, place ppl on house arrest, then when the pressure is off, let these turds off with state honours.

And about the pigLeT and their aim of establishing an Islamic caliphate and making India Islamic. "This is their thinking" he said. And added "Spiritual Islam is to be respected. But political Islam of this nature should not be tolerated and countered effectively." {But saar, Islam provides an answer to everything in ones life. How to take some and reject some onlee!}

Overall a decent speech and much better than the mumling, fumbling speeches in recent times which made him really look his age.

kobe · Post by **kobe** » 11 Dec 2008 11:42

lessons we learned from the latest paki-state sponsored terrorist attack

1) pakistan is the villain of the world (we all knew that)
2) pakistan = LeT = Al Quida = JeM = ISI (we all knew that)
3) pakistan will not sit quiet until its partitioned into 3 more pieces (we did not know that)
4) pakistan's surrender prone army has learned the fine art of nuclear blackmail (we did not know to what extent)
5) peace will pakistan will only come when pakistan ceases to exist (we did not know that)
6) indian politicians are our shame (we did not know to what extent)
7) indian commandos can shoot the bad guys through two eyes (we knew it but now have proof)
8.) there are many indian desh-drohi gaddars (e.g. ram jethmalani) (we did not know who)
9) sonia gandhi does not give a hoot about our country (we did not know that)
10) india / israel / usa will be having curry in PoK soon (we did not know that)
11) 29/11 will not be forgotten so easily as the pundits predicted (thanks to us)
12) 29/11 will cost pakistan dearly (wait and see)
13) pakistan economy can not sustain another war -time is ripe (we know that our politicians will wet their pants/dhotis/lungis before deciding)

FINALLY
14) SONU NIGAM SHOULD BE THE NEXT PRIME MINISTER OF INDIA !!! (we did not know that)

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Dec 2008 12:07

9) sonia gandhi does not give a hoot about our country (we did not know that)

really??

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 11 Dec 2008 12:22

Thats news to you? How long have you been in india?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 11 Dec 2008 12:53

Mumbai attacks raise concerns about terrorism

WASHINGTON (AP): The commando-style siege blamed on Lashkar-e-Taiba in Mumbai last month is raising new concerns in the U.S. intelligence community, both about the tactics used and the unsettling possibility the operation was conducted independent of Al-Qaida.

That could mean there is a new global terrorist organization to combat, requiring the resources and attention now focused on combatting Osama bin Laden's organization.

``People are looking closely at whether (Lashkar) is trying deliberately to raise its profile vis-a-vis other terrorist organizations and/or its geographic footprint,'' a U.S. counterterrorism official said, speaking anonymously because he was not authorized to discuss this intelligence on the record.

Lashkar-e-Taiba is a militant Islamic group - based in Kashmir and banned in Pakistan - that has been blamed by India and also U.S. National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell as the likely perpetrator of the Mumbai attack.

While the assessments aren't finished, U.S. counterterrorism officials assume the Mumbai attack heralds a change in Lashkar-e-Taiba's agenda, expanding its targets from Kashmir and India to include American, Israeli and Western interests.

It is still unclear whether al-Qaida played a role in planning, supplying, or timing the attack, according to U.S. intelligence officials. The groups are loosely allied. Lashkar signed on to bin Laden's Islamic Front for Jihad against America and Israel in 1998.

Since the 2001 U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, Lashkar fighters have been detected among militants in combat against American forces.

Senior intelligence officials discount the theory that the Mumbai attack was meant to shift Pakistan's attention back to Kashmir and away from its military campaign against al-Qaida and Taliban targets in the tribal areas. The Mumbai attack was planned for more than a year, they say, but Pakistan's offensive began just months ago.

If Al-Qaida did not play a direct role, it is possible Lashkar was trying to impress Al-Qaida, auditioning to become an official franchise of the organization. That would raise Lashkar's global profile; the benefit to al-Qaida would be the spread of its jihadist brand.

A third possibility is Lashkar acted on the same extremist philosophy that guides Al-Qaida, but carried out its attack independently. That would mean Western intelligence agencies now have to be concerned with two groups capable of spectacular international terrorist attacks, said Bilal Saab, a research analyst at the Brookings Institution.

Anit Mukherjee, a former Indian army officer and counterinsurgency expert, said Al-Qaida's involvement would force the United States to broaden operations in Pakistan to target Lashkar and Jaysh-e-Muhammed, which is another Kashmiri extremist group that Mukherjee said conducted an attack with Lashkar on the Indian parliament in December 2001. ``American officials didn't want to take on (those) terrorist organizations,'' Mukherjee said.

Traditionally limited to Kashmir, Lashkar's operations in the last seven years have included spectacular attacks in India - including the 2006 Mumbai train attack that killed around 200, according to Indian and U.S. intelligence officials. It popped onto American screens after the Afghan invasion because of its close relationship with the Taliban. It was put on the U.S. terrorist organization list in December 2001. Pakistan formally banned it in 2002.

However, it maintains some 2,200 offices across Pakistan for recruitment, fundraising, and social services, according to a U.S. intelligence report . It is estimated to have up to several thousand members, almost exclusively Pakistanis from outside Kashmir.

``It's not as if they're an unknown new kid on the block. But Mumbai certainly ratchets up (Lashkar's) profile,'' the U.S. counterterrorism official said.

If Al-Qaida is not directly implicated, the United States could continue to view Lashkar as a regional threat to be dealt with by India and Pakistan, Mukherjee said.

``If officials make that distinction, it is shortsighted,'' he said. ``Lashkar and Al-Qaida share the same ideology.''

A U.S. intelligence official said the focus on determining Al-Qaida's role, if any, distracts from the central problem: armed groups with extremist ideologies who have safe havens from which to launch attacks. The intelligence official spoke anonymously because he is not authorized to speak publicly.

No matter who planned it, Saab, the Brookings analyst, believes the commando tactics used by the 10 gunmen in Mumbai were meant to make an international splash.

Suicide bombings could have killed as many people, but Saab believes the attackers were aiming for a lengthy operation that would draw the eyes of the world. U.S. counterterrorism officials agree.

``The classical objectives of terrorism is to make everyone watch,'' Saab said.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 11 Dec 2008 13:58

Urdu media condemns Mumbai attacks, see a conspiracy

Hyderabad, (IANS) : The Urdu media here has strongly condemned the terror attacks in Mumbai and called for bringing the culprits to book to prevent such attacks in future.

Five Urdu dailies published from Hyderabad were unequivocal in condemning the Nov 26 terror attacks and termed it as India's 9/11, an attack on India's sovereignty and a barbaric act against humanity.

The Urdu media opposed war against Pakistan as a solution to the problem of terrorism but felt that Islamabad was not doing enough to stop terror acts emanating from its soil.

In the immediate aftermath of the attack, the newspapers saw it as a conspiracy to divert attention from 'saffron terror' as the police officer leading the investigations into Malegaon blast was among the victims.

Some of them still see it as a larger international conspiracy involving the Sangh Parivar and even Israeli intelligence agency Mossad to shield the culprits of the Malegaon blasts and defame Muslims.

They also carried reports that the terrorist who shot dead Hemant Karkare was speaking Marathi and called for a thorough probe to expose the real motivation behind the attacks.

The newspapers called for restraint on behalf of both India and Pakistan and advised them not to fall into the trap of the US. They also asked New Delhi to accept a joint probe proposed by Pakistan.

India's refusal to join the joint probe will weaken its stand on terrorism in the international forums and will give credence to Pakistani propaganda that it has nothing to do with terror acts in India. This stand can help yield electoral gains in near future but will not prove effective in dealing with terrorism, said an editorial in Urdu daily Etemaad.

War is not a solution and in fact it will help the terrorists who want to see a confrontation between the two countries. Pakistan is also facing a problem of terrorism. There is a need to strengthen the hands of people like President Asif Ali Zardari to foil the designs of ISI (Inter-Services Intelligence), eminent journalist Zafar Agha wrote in Siasat, a leading daily.

It would be a tragedy if our rulers fall into the trap of Al Qaeda. Both the countries have to fight unitedly against the terror. But the leaders and authorities appear non-serious to deal with the threat, wrote Hasan Kamal in another daily Rashtriya Sahara, while referring to the security lapses and lack of unity among political parties.

Etemaad in its Dec 2 editorial criticised Pakistani media for questioning India's claim that the terrorists had come from Pakistan.

The Pakistani media should also know what is happening in their own country. The lone terrorist captured alive is in India's custody. He is from Faridkot of Punjab in Pakistan. The reports based on his statements before police can't be dismissed as 'India's theory'. The media of both the countries should try to allay the apprehensions and misgivings between the two countries, it said.

India can't be expected to hand over the only live evidence to Pakistan. It is for Pakistani leaders to prove that their hands are clean, the editorial added.

Siasat, in its Dec 3 editorial, advised India not to look at the situation from the US angle.

Tension increased in the region after Rice's visit. Care should be taken to ensure that we don't add to the bitterness in relations with neighbours. Both of us are victims of terror. We should be careful not to allow a third party to take advantage of the situation, it said.

Munsif found fault with the move to include Israel into investigations of Mumbai attacks.

This is dangerous, especially when a class of thought in India feels that the attacks are the handiwork of Mossad, which used Pakistanis to execute their plans. This move to make Israel part of investigations will not please our Arab friends, it said.

Munsif also questioned the circumstances in which Karkare and two others senior police officers were killed.

A day before the attacks, Karkare received a death threat over phone. The government has neither announced a probe into his killing nor has given an assurance that the work he was doing would continue. Sangh Parivar terrorism should not be sidetracked for the probe into Mumbai attacks, it said.

The probe into Malegaon blasts will now be put into the cold storage. The probe was restoring minorities' faith into the system. The investigation into Mumbai attacks should not push the Malegaon probe to the backseat, wrote Siasat.

Unity is the key to giving fitting reply to the terrorists. No party should be allowed to exploit the issue to wedge a divide in the society. There should be no discrimination even among victims of terror. Two-year-old Moshe (whose parents were killed in Nariman House) and five-year-old Shanaz (whose parents were gunned down in CST) were both our children. There is no difference between them, wrote Kamal.

vdutta · Post by **vdutta** » 11 Dec 2008 14:56

Singha wrote:I dont understand one matter about indian police and undertrials:

police release arrested guys name, details, his photo to the press. but when taken to
court they put a bag over their heads. even "group photos" of police and captured
criminals have this bag over head syndrome.

is it just to stimulate the local bag industry or because some H&D is sought
to be preserved ?

The primary reason of hiding their faces is to stop them from giving any signal to their accomplice if there are any in the crowd. also it prohibits them to see the faces of the arresting parties so that they cannot take any revenge later on.
apart from that usually they hide their faces before they publish the pics to conceal the identity of arrestee and sometimes it is just the bait, the real person is escorted from back door and a bag head pretends to be arrestee for security reasons.

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 11 Dec 2008 15:03

Cross post from indian response to terror thread.

Pak hub of terror but war no solution: Pranab

New Delhi: Attacking Pakistan is not the solution to terror menace, said External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee while addressing the Lok Sabha on Thursday.

"I am making it quite clear that it (war) is not a solution," Pranab Mukherjee said and added that India is building up an international campaign against terror and will try to put adequate pressure on Pakistan to act.

Speaking during the debate on the Mumbai terror attack, Mukherjee said that Pakistan must act against terror groups based on its soil and stop them from launching attacks against India.

"Controllers of Mumbai attacks were in Pakistan. Islamabad should act against them. Pakistan must be forced to act against terrorists. There is irrefutable proof (that) the epicentre of this (Mumbai terror attack) attack and not only this one but many more are in our neighbouring country," said Mukherjee.

The External Affairs Minister hinted that Pakistan has been willingly giving shelter to criminals and terrorists wanted in India and said that it has failed to handover Dawood Ibrahim despite repeated demands made by India.

He also demanded that Pakistan must hand over all those responsible for such dastardly terror attacks on India. “India has demanded arrest and handing over of 40 terrorists taking shelter in Pakistan. Islamabad should seriously act and not be in a denial mode,” he said.

He pointed out that only India but many other countries have also been affected by terror attacks and said that it is now a global phenomenon and must be tackled globally.

"Terror has assumed a dimension that is not confined to individual country. It is not confined within the territorial boundaries of any state. It is now cross border and has become an international phenomenon," Mukherjee said.

He also rubbished Pakistan's claims that terrorists were non-state actors.

"Question is not of the non-state actors. Are they coming from heaven or they are coming from a different planet? They are located in the territory of a particular country. We are suggesting to Pakistan please act. Mere expression of intention is not adequate," thundered Mukherjee,

He also demanded that Pakistan put in legal or police custody Jaish-e-Mohammad's (JeM) chief Maulana Masood Azhar and also fulfil India's demands of arresting Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) Hafez Sayeed

"I was told by an international interlocutor that Hafiz Saeed was arrested and now after sometime I heard from our mission that he's appearing on TV. Azhar (JeM chief) has been house arrested. What does it mean by house arrest?" he asked.

Responding to Advani's concern that the UN could result in the internationalisation of the Kashmir issue, Mukherjee outlined India's official policy and said India will reject all attempts to link the Kashmir dispute with cross border terrorism.

nsa_tanay · Post by **nsa_tanay** » 11 Dec 2008 15:52

Singha wrote:9) sonia gandhi does not give a hoot about our country (we did not know that)

really??

Do you have any doubt ?

nsa_tanay · Post by **nsa_tanay** » 11 Dec 2008 15:57

http://www.geo.tv/12-11-2008/30483.htm

GEO Pakistan
Updated at: 1023 PST, Thursday, December 11, 2008
UNITED NATIONS: The UN Security Council sanctions committee targeted Wednesday four members of Pakistani banned outfit Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), blamed for the Mumbai attacks, for assets freeze and other sanctions.

Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, Haji Muhammad Ashraf and Mohammad Ahmed Bahaziq, are "subject to the assets freeze, travel ban and arms embargo," set out in Security Council resolution 1822 of 2008, said the al-Qaida and Taliban Sanctions Committee.

Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi was one of two LeT leaders Pakistan Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani said Wednesday were arrested. Lakhvi and Zarar Shah, the other detainee, were allegedly key planners of the Mumbai gunmen attack that killed over172 people.

Both are senior members of LeT. Indian media said Lakhvi put together the team of gunmen that perpetrated the attack, while Shah allegedly arranged SIM cards and satellite phones used in the November 26-29 siege on India's financial capital.

The sanctions committee also listed the numerous aliases of LeT and two entities that provide it with funds -- Al Rasheed Trust and Al-Akhtar Trust International -- and which are also subject to UN sanctions.

The US State Department said it was "pleased that the (UN sanctions) Committee has decided to move forward on these high-priority designations.

"These actions will limit the ability of known terrorists to travel, acquire weapons, plan, carry out, or raise funds for new terrorist attacks.

By their listings, the department said in a statement, the sanctions committee "continues to serve as a tool to help member states deter terrorist activities of al-Qaeda and affiliated groups."

Pakistan launched a major operation over the weekend against militant organizations in the country, raiding a camp in Kashmir run by a charity linked to LeT and arresting 15 people.

It was not clear if Lakhvi and Shah were among those arrested in the raid.

Some of the 15 men are reported to be on a list of people that India last week requested Pakistan extradite in the wake of the Mumbai attacks

Not ban, these people needs to be arrested.

nsa_tanay · Post by **nsa_tanay** » 11 Dec 2008 16:08

Sumeet wrote:Cross post from indian response to terror thread.

Pak hub of terror but war no solution: Pranab

New Delhi: Attacking Pakistan is not the solution to terror menace, said External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee while addressing the Lok Sabha on Thursday.

"I am making it quite clear that it (war) is not a solution," Pranab Mukherjee said and added that India is building up an international campaign against terror and will try to put adequate pressure on Pakistan to act.

Speaking during the debate on the Mumbai terror attack, Mukherjee said that Pakistan must act against terror groups based on its soil and stop them from launching attacks against India.

"Controllers of Mumbai attacks were in Pakistan. Islamabad should act against them. Pakistan must be forced to act against terrorists. There is irrefutable proof (that) the epicentre of this (Mumbai terror attack) attack and not only this one but many more are in our neighbouring country," said Mukherjee.

The External Affairs Minister hinted that Pakistan has been willingly giving shelter to criminals and terrorists wanted in India and said that it has failed to handover Dawood Ibrahim despite repeated demands made by India.

He also demanded that Pakistan must hand over all those responsible for such dastardly terror attacks on India. “India has demanded arrest and handing over of 40 terrorists taking shelter in Pakistan. Islamabad should seriously act and not be in a denial mode,” he said.

He pointed out that only India but many other countries have also been affected by terror attacks and said that it is now a global phenomenon and must be tackled globally.

"Terror has assumed a dimension that is not confined to individual country. It is not confined within the territorial boundaries of any state. It is now cross border and has become an international phenomenon," Mukherjee said.

He also rubbished Pakistan's claims that terrorists were non-state actors.

"Question is not of the non-state actors. Are they coming from heaven or they are coming from a different planet? They are located in the territory of a particular country. We are suggesting to Pakistan please act. Mere expression of intention is not adequate," thundered Mukherjee,

He also demanded that Pakistan put in legal or police custody Jaish-e-Mohammad's (JeM) chief Maulana Masood Azhar and also fulfil India's demands of arresting Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) Hafez Sayeed

"I was told by an international interlocutor that Hafiz Saeed was arrested and now after sometime I heard from our mission that he's appearing on TV. Azhar (JeM chief) has been house arrested. What does it mean by house arrest?" he asked.

Responding to Advani's concern that the UN could result in the internationalisation of the Kashmir issue, Mukherjee outlined India's official policy and said India will reject all attempts to link the Kashmir dispute with cross border terrorism.

Like to both agree and contradict. Full scale war is not a solution. But limited, surgical and precision strike on individuals and installations is a must. Be it military or a covert strike or sabotage. I also doubt the honesty of the top Indian political leadership and the intelligence agencies controlled by them. We could have assicinated people like Dawood, Masood Azahar and likes , inside Pakisthan itself.

Our bollywood stars , goothka kings , mumbai dons keep regular contact with Dawood and meets him. But our intelligence agencies can't even touch him.

It seems certain political parties wants to keep these issues (like Dawood and others) alive for ever. So that they can sought and scream in political rallies and gain mileage in election campaigns.

UPrabhu · Post by **UPrabhu** » 11 Dec 2008 16:27

War may not be good idea, but why say it? Idiots in GoI does not even know how to pressurize.

adityaS · Post by **adityaS** » 11 Dec 2008 17:18

Sorry if this has been posted before, but we have Burkha Dutt's response to questions raised about Mumbai coverage.

This is junk. Selected quotes:

In the 72 hours that we stood on reporting duty, not once were we asked to move further away. We often delayed live telecasting of images that we thought were sensitive so as to not compromise the ongoing operation. Not once, were we asked by anyone in authority, to switch our cameras off, or withhold images. When we did so, it was entirely our own assessment that perhaps it was safest to do so.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 11 Dec 2008 17:38

Evidence? It's with Pakistan

G Parthsarathy in the Pioneer. Says nothing new but ruthlessly and systematically lays bare Baki modus operandi.

Liked Shourie's RS speech a lot. Lotsa right notes and emphasis. Needs wider dissemination.

LKA also makes some good points in his LS address. The distinction between 'spiritual islam' and 'political islam' is a first by a top desi neta, IIRC. Mst extend badhaais to Sudheendra Kulkarni, LKA's speechwriter.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 11 Dec 2008 18:15

vsudhir wrote:Evidence? It's with Pakistan
.

India has failed too. To chase this topic of Pakistani terrorism constantly. India leaders (???? who?) should have, and should be more proactive in getting rid of this menace.

Imagine, India has been living with this stuff for some 2 decades and GoI can only extract the same dusted speeches and arguments from Pakistan?

This time around the Pakis miscalculated the global impact of the Mumbai attack. It is not because of India that there is such worldwide revulsion. It is not because of India that the topic is on page 1 of everything.

The U.S has its own interest in moving this topic along. Same goes with all the think tanks and experts in terrorism. All of them are making headway.

Except the GoI. The exception is the GoI.

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 11 Dec 2008 18:39

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 823174.cms
CREDIT: TIMES INSIGHT GROUP

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 11 Dec 2008 18:44

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7776756.stm

Outlines of the re-org...

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 11 Dec 2008 19:23

NO JHAPPAD, NO THAPPAD, NOT EVEN PAPAD

Abhi_G · Post by **Abhi_G** » 11 Dec 2008 19:59

Sumeet wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 823174.cms
CREDIT: TIMES INSIGHT GROUP

resizemode=4[/img]

Not a time to squabble but Wow! Delhi is ready to sacrifice J&K to buy peace !!!

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 11 Dec 2008 20:09

I wondered where the turds were. Seems they are making their way out of the woodwork.

CPM links Mumbai attacks to Indo-US nuke deal
"What brought the terrorist outfits to our shores? With the Indo-US nuclear deal you are seen as an ally of the US, a strategic partner. There seems to be a total lack of appreciation of this thought from the government's side

Karkala Joishy · Post by **Karkala Joishy** » 11 Dec 2008 20:23

UPrabhu wrote:War may not be good idea, but why say it? Idiots in GoI does not even know how to pressurize.

I think the problem is the GOI still has a slave mentality when it comes to the US. The US does not care about India or Pak, they just don't want war because it will cause problems for itself. So our GoI slaves, always wanting to earn a pat on the back from their US masters quickly rule out war. Disgusting.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 11 Dec 2008 20:48

Time to place ALL CPI on Al Pakistan and allowed to drift into the ocean. even Pakistanis have come up with better excuses than these yahoos.

RajaJi · Post by **RajaJi** » 11 Dec 2008 20:51

Karkala Joishy wrote:
UPrabhu wrote:War may not be good idea, but why say it? Idiots in GoI does not even know how to pressurize.
I think the problem is the GOI still has a slave mentality when it comes to the US. The US does not care about India or Pak, they just don't want war because it will cause problems for itself. So our GoI slaves, always wanting to earn a pat on the back from their US masters quickly rule out war. Disgusting.

Very true. I agree 100%. But, when will this slave mentality end?