Vivek K wrote:Where are the Phalcons? Still no sign?
2009
Vivek K wrote:Where are the Phalcons? Still no sign?
The A-10 hasn't been in production in two decades, and the USAF does not have any plans to sell of what it has right now, nor would airframes with that much time be worth the purchase, training and upgrades.Amrinder wrote:Maybe it has been discussed before: sometime back there was talk of US offering F-16 and F-18's. Have we expressed interest in A-10? It is a tank buster for sure and do you think that it will serve a good role in our scenario?
Thanks..
The current US plan is to extend A10 in service beyond 2028...a new order to upgrade or built 242 new wings was given to Boeing in 2007 (wikipedia)...i do not see why we could not approach them with a request for 50 A-10 or more.Kannan wrote:The A-10 hasn't been in production in two decades, and the USAF does not have any plans to sell of what it has right now, nor would airframes with that much time be worth the purchase, training and upgrades.Amrinder wrote:Maybe it has been discussed before: sometime back there was talk of US offering F-16 and F-18's. Have we expressed interest in A-10? It is a tank buster for sure and do you think that it will serve a good role in our scenario?
Thanks..
I think SU-25 would be better suited for us, the extra armour will also help should we need to use them on the Naxalites any time in the future...On the other hand, we should seriously explore an option of developing a CAS aircraft ourselves, perhaps we can modify HJT SITARA into one...I believe Ajeet and Hawk already had a secondary role for close aerial support...Amrinder wrote:The current US plan is to extend A10 in service beyond 2028...a new order to upgrade or built 242 new wings was given to Boeing in 2007 (wikipedia)...i do not see why we could not approach them with a request for 50 A-10 or more.Kannan wrote: The A-10 hasn't been in production in two decades, and the USAF does not have any plans to sell of what it has right now, nor would airframes with that much time be worth the purchase, training and upgrades.
SU-25 to be used against Naxalites?Yogi_G wrote:I think SU-25 would be better suited for us, the extra armour will also help should we need to use them on the Naxalites any time in the future...On the other hand, we should seriously explore an option of developing a CAS aircraft ourselves, perhaps we can modify HJT SITARA into one...I believe Ajeet and Hawk already had a secondary role for close aerial support...
The statement of SU-25 being used on naxalites may seem odd now but India has to deal with them some day...given their very size and spread "Veerappan catching style Police" may just not be enough....Prasant wrote:SU-25 to be used against Naxalites?Yogi_G wrote:I think SU-25 would be better suited for us, the extra armour will also help should we need to use them on the Naxalites any time in the future...On the other hand, we should seriously explore an option of developing a CAS aircraft ourselves, perhaps we can modify HJT SITARA into one...I believe Ajeet and Hawk already had a secondary role for close aerial support...
Let's leave bombing own territories to TSPA.
Not to mention scaring the living daylights out of the tribals and the villagersRahul M wrote:yogi_g, this is madness. see a doc.
at most, armed choppers can be used against naxals.
Oh come on now! How do you plan to bring down their huge fortresses with pea shooters like Dhruv WSI? How are you gonna counter their SAM batteries? And their T-90 armored regiments? That guy has a point!Rahul M wrote:yogi_g, this is madness. see a doc.
I know the statement sounded real weird, but I am of the firm opinion that given the strength that the naxals seem to be acquiring, MANPADS might already be in their hands. Use of helos might lead to losses, hence my mention of armoured CAS fighters which can still take some small arms fire, pounce in and do the job....Dmurphy wrote:Oh come on now! How do you plan to bring down their huge fortresses with pea shooters like Dhruv WSI? How are you gonna counter their SAM batteries? And their T-90 armored regiments? That guy has a point!Rahul M wrote:yogi_g, this is madness. see a doc.
naxals don't set up camps in the classical sense. it's mostly a jungle clearing with a few straw/leaf houses.Singha wrote:A-10 can cover ground more quickly vs helis, dont have the serviceability issues of helis.
and bring a lot of power to bear if a camp etc need to be taken out. so Su39/A10 is
a strong tool for the job but WSI dhruv with FLIR to spot campfires in dense forests
is also a option.
each state govt in india buys a few civilian helis from all over the place. from now on
they should only buy dhruv and that too the WSI model.
While OV-10's ability to be able to use crude airfields and STOL is well-suited for the role, it still does not offer the armour. Ideally the characteristics of an aircraft best suited in our case would be as below,Rahul M wrote:naxals don't set up camps in the classical sense. it's mostly a jungle clearing with a few straw/leaf houses.Singha wrote:A-10 can cover ground more quickly vs helis, dont have the serviceability issues of helis.
and bring a lot of power to bear if a camp etc need to be taken out. so Su39/A10 is
a strong tool for the job but WSI dhruv with FLIR to spot campfires in dense forests
is also a option.
each state govt in india buys a few civilian helis from all over the place. from now on
they should only buy dhruv and that too the WSI model.
A-10 is grossly overkill and inefficient for that role. things like OV-10 might have been most ideal.
btw, one of your ideas using the an-32 with lots of firepower and on-board sensors might be a good idea !
------------------------------------Rahul M wrote:please, you don't know what you are talking about.
jets are simply too fast for this kind of thing to be effective/accurate. and don't go into PGMs etc, using PGMs against naxals would be the moronic idea of the century.
the armour you speak of is unnecessary, individual small arms like INSAS are no threat to even attack choppers like LCH. naxals don't have AAA or MANPADS.
anti-naxal forces need a/c that can stay in the air for a long time, are simple and rugged enough to be used from dirt strips and are cheap to own and operate.
and no, they don't need rockets.
well, enough people have tried to tell you why your comments/analysis was not practical.I also believe that other's comments/analysis should not be belittled...
yogi_g, till now I believe I've shown considerable patience with your ideas.FYI...and since you are a moderator and feel my comments are "off the beaten track" here, I will make sure I don't post anything further on this thread....
Excuse me while I go back to my "wanting to be spoon-fed" ways....
it is very amusing way DDM Ravi Sharma massages facts. if it was indian kaveri engine it would be "Kaveri total flop IAF rejects as overweight by 200 kg"..if it is russian engine it is "only blip"ravi sharma wrote:The only blip is that AL-55I, at around 950 kg, is heavier by 200 kg than promised. The Russians have formulated a plan that could at best cut 100 kg.
hmm...Afghanistan, Georgia, etc compared to Naxal movement. like Rahul mentioned there is no comparison between the naxals and the Mujahideen in Afghanistan.Yogi_G
India has acquired a powerful Green Pine early warning radar system from Israel and signed a multi-million deal for purchasing an unspecified number of Aerostat long-range radars to bolster air defenses along its borders.
New Delhi has received "large numbers" of the Aerostat radars - comprising sophisticated sensors mounted on blimp-like balloons tethered to the ground by cables - officials say.
Military experts describe the Aerostat as a cheap alternative to airborne warning and control systems (AWACS) like the Phalcon, three of which are being mounted in Israel on IL-78 platforms.
Dhruv's younger brother who will be coming along soon will bring the FLIR equipment as standard.p_saggu wrote:Can FLIR on say an armed dhruv detect heat signatures of people underneath a Jungle say in an anti naxal operation. Can't we equip a few dhruvs with such tech?
Might come in very useful in Anti-naxal ops, in the North east and in J&K.
somnath wrote:To suggest even armed chopper borne ops against NAxals is a stupidity of the highest order. Barring one case (Mizoram), India has never used offensive air ops in CI. To use such power against our own people is plain silly. Again, these insurgencies are best won through intel and good policing, not rambo style operations.
Rahul,a couple of years back a Huge Cache of rockets and home made Launchers were caught by Police of Andhra Pradesh and a Naxal who was a Engineer By Profession and was running a SOHO style Workshop to build these in TN was caught alive,though they were crude,they did use them on a couple of attacks on police stations in orissa,so we cant be complacent.with maoists now being too close to chincoms and there is high probability of profileration of these from porus Nepalese Brorders.so better lets not write off their capabilities now.Rahul M wrote:please, you don't know what you are talking about.
jets are simply too fast for this kind of thing to be effective/accurate. and don't go into PGMs etc, using PGMs against naxals would be the moronic idea of the century.
the armour you speak of is unnecessary, individual small arms like INSAS are no threat to even attack choppers like LCH. naxals don't have AAA or MANPADS.
The Army has a UAV unit in Manipur doing exactly that.Singha wrote:yah yah you softies and lawyers you!
how about atleast a Heron or two to loiter over suspected naxal infested forests for hours and quickly id camps of people in the night. they could well be innocent hunters or villagers but
knowing where to check in a 100km x 100km box with limited boots on ground is quite important.