Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

[cben]

The Mumbaimirror has taken a lot of precautions to print these pictures. They are anonymized and hazed out. I fully support the publication of these pictures. Only the pictures can show the true nature of Islamic terrorism. Only the pictures will give the people, a feel of the true nature of the enemy, the monsters we are facing.

[putnanja]

Does the GoI learn nothing from history? Are the mumbai blasts so back in the past that it didn't learn anything from US "collaboration" at that time?

Dismay in Delhi over America’s Pak blinkers

Dismay in Delhi over America’s Pak blinkers
Pranab Dhal Samanta

New Delhi: It was meant to be a swift and airtight investigative effort after India opened all doors of cooperation with US investigators. As it turns out, a convinced US did ask Pakistan for access to Lashkar-e-Toiba operations chief Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi and communications in-charge Zarar Shah but has heard nothing positive on the request, leaving India frustrated and disappointed.

A concerned Bush Administration has rushed in to assure India that it is still serious about the effort. With Pakistan desperately waiting for the US to schedule a donor’s conference involving the Friends of Pakistan in January, Washington has signalled to New Delhi that it does retain leverage. India, however, remains sceptical given the nature of the US reliance on Pakistan in the war against Terror and the extent to which Washington will hold out on Islamabad’s desperation.

New Delhi does have its reasons for the frustration. FBI investigators concluded their efforts in India and recovered a wealth of information from the communication equipment recovered from the 10 terrorists, all of which lead to Pakistan. In this context, Zarar Shah is one person US investigators singled out quite early and wanted to confront and interrogate.

In fact, it’s learnt that this was one name US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice brought up first when she visited India and Pakistan in the first week of this month. She is said to have made this clear to authorities in Islamabad too. Once the UN formally proscribed Jamaat-ud-Dawa in the subsequent days, Pakistan did say it detained Lakhvi and Shah.

This is when the request was formally re-emphasized but Islamabad has shown no signs of cooperation thereafter and, instead, had diverted the issue by resorting to an orchestrated war propaganda. According to what US had told India, Lakhvi and Shah were just the beginning and the FBI wanted to move step-by-step with a thorough investigative effort that exposed the entire link which conceived, planned, controlled and executed the strike that killed over 180 people, including six US citizens.

While not doubting Washington’s sincerity in trying to locate the perpetrators, India feels there is a “fundamental disconnect” in expecting cooperation from the Pakistani government, particularly security elements, whose own role is clouded by several questions. However, officials concede that the deteriorating economic situation of Pakistan does allow US to apply the squeeze to quite an extent.

On November 17, at the meeting of the newly created Friends of Pakistan that includes US, UK, China, Germany, France, Saudi Arabia, UAE among others, Pakistan asked for $60 billion to give an impetus to its entire economy including developmental projects in FATA and NWFP. While IMF did release $7.6 billion in November to Pakistan, the amount is not enough and Islamabad needs a massive bailout effort.

This explains India’s diplomatic efforts with Saudi Arabia and the upcoming visit of UAE Foreign Minister. A GCC meeting is also slated in January first week where the Mumbai attacks is likely to come up in the context of Pakistan.

Critical to the bailout are investments in the energy sector for which Washington has scheduled some expert meetings. Sources said Islamabad is expecting the Bush Administration to announce a large donor’s conference soon to approve some cash flow before its demits office. But there has been no announcement yet, which many say has Islamabad very nervous.

Despite all this, the broad consensus in India is that US will not be able to succeed if it continues to see Pakistan as an ally in the war and hence, a country which is entitled to these bailout packages. The strategic community here is veering to the view that India has to deliver a clear message to US that in the long run, the better option would be to work in partnership with Russia using supply routes from there than to depend on Pakistan.

This thinking, which is also gaining acceptability in official circles here, is that Pakistan Army’s duplicity must be exposed and in that sense, the route from the Caucasus and Russia would ensure greater success. This paradigm shift, sources said, is worth considering for the US while it weighs options on how far it can push Pakistan to deliver on the Mumbai attacks.

[Rishi]

http://www.zeenews.com/zee-exclusive/20 ... 7news.html


India should explore military option if diplomacy fails: Brajesh Mishra

India and Pakistan are again at loggerheads after the terror strike in Mumbai on November 26, 2008. Media on both sides of the border are predicting the chances of a war between the two neighbors. The political leaders at their level are trying to avoid a military conflict that could possibly trigger a nuclear threat.

Amidst all this tension and war mongering, Zeenews.com’s Swati Chaturvedi in ‘Kahiye Janaab’ talks to former National Security Advisor in Atal Bihari Vajpayee’s government, Brajesh Mishra about his views on the standoff.

Here are the excerpts:

Swati: Pakistan press is calling India a “friendly enemy”. In the current scenario is it right for Pakistan to create war hysteria?

Brajesh: Democracy in Pakistan is mere eyewash. Pakistan Army, read General Kayani, is calling the shots in the country. Even before the Mumbai attack, Pakistan Prime Minister had said that the ISI will work under Interior Ministry, but the order was revoked the very next day. This clearly shows that army is mightier than the political leadership. The kind of statements that Pakistan politicians were making immediately after Mumbai attacks and the statements they making today clearly shows the shift in their stand.

Swati: What should Indian government do in the current scenario?

Brajesh: The current stance of Pakistan clearly shows that they are lying as per their habit. It is difficult for India to terminate all relations with Pakistan, as it is a neighboring country. Now, if we want to take military action against them then the time has come to attack Pakistan. But if we want to tackle the issue diplomatically, then it is very difficult to persuade Pakistan to take action against the terrorists.

Swati: Do you think America is fully supporting India over this sensitive issue?

Brajesh: America is only providing lip service rather than taking any concrete steps over this issue. America is capable of pressurizing Pakistan, but it is not doing that. The Indo-US nuclear deal was not only meant for nuke cooperation, but it was also a strategic deal. In spite of that, America is shying away from taking stern measures against Pakistan. It is a well known fact that Pakistan’s economic condition is such that it cannot survive without the help of US and Europe. This way US is capable of talking to Pakistan in firm terms, but it is not doing so because of its own strategic interests.

Swati: Pakistan is probably the only nuclear power in the world that has a nuclear doctrine that says “nuclear blackmail”. How can we tackle this?

Brajesh: Immediately after the Parliament attack in 2002, when army was deployed along Pakistan border, the Pakistan foreign secretary said that in case of a war, they can use any weapon clearly indicating towards their nuclear capability. I replied that if you are capable of destroying one of our cities say Delhi or Mumbai, then in the repercussion Pakistan can be erased from the world map. After that, they never talked about using nuclear weapon. Even now, they are not talking about a nuke war, but there are all sorts of possibilities in a war. It depends on the political leadership and how much control they have over the situation. That determines the course of a war.

Swati: Do you think war is a possibility?

Brajesh: India is trying to resolve the matter diplomatically for the last one month even though our Foreign Minister has himself admitted that they are not succeeding in isolating Pakistan over this issue. To succeed diplomatically, it is necessary for India to show its military might. This does not necessarily means attacking Pakistan, but showing the world community that India is capable of doing that.

Swati: We always talk about attacking militant training centers across the border. In your opinion, should India go for surgical strikes?

Brajesh: Since India has resorted to diplomatic methods to solve this issue, it should give some more time to Pakistan to act and take action against the disturbing elements and so called “non state actors”. This will give India an option to show the world community that military strike was the last option left in the scenario, in case India finally decides to go for surgical strikes.

Swati: If you were the NSA, what would you have suggested your Prime Minister in the current situation?

Brajesh: As I told you, I would have suggested that if initially we have not taken any military action against them and approached the issue diplomatically then we should give some more time to Pakistan to act, so that if in the future we resort to military means then the world community should know that it was the only option left with India.

Swati: How do you see the change in US administration and its approach towards India amidst talks of a special envoy in Kashmir?

Brajesh: If Obama appoints an envoy in Kashmir then that would see the end of Indo- US relationship that has developed significantly in the past 10 years. Obama needs to understand the ground reality of the region that any interference in Kashmir issue, that is primarily between India and Pakistan, will drastically hit the Indo-US relations.

[James B]

Foot in the Mouth fellowships (rolling trophy) for their statements in the aftermath of the terror attacks in Mumbai: V.S. Achuthanandan, Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi, R.R. Patil.

http://outlookindia.com/photoessays.asp ... &storyid=1

[Div]

Image from the IE story by Shishir Gupta:

Basically
Congress government knew about it, Maharashtra government knew about it, Shiv Raj Patil knew about it, Prime Minister knew about it. In any other nation all the above responsible people will be tried for treason, charged with aiding and abetting murder. Their punishment under IPC is Death by Hanging till dead. But again we are nation called India. Nothing changes here. This is a land of Gandhi......<fill in the blanks>

I would recommed folks watch the set of vidoes in this post - http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 81#p587881

[chetak]

Chickens coming home to roost.
These very same chickens have laid many eggs in India.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/pers ... ciety.html

Indulgence of Islam is harming society
Channel 4's decision to invite President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to deliver its "alternative" Christmas message may have been offensive to many people, but no one can say the station is neglecting its obligation to cater for minorities. Muslim fundamentalists were thrilled by the broadcast.

By Damian Thompson
Last Updated: 7:04PM GMT 26 Dec 2008

Islam is the fastest-growing religion in Britain: the number of Muslims has grown from 1.6 million to two million since 2000. Moreover, every major public institution has changed its policies to accommodate the demands of Islamic "community leaders". The Government, the Opposition, the police, schools, the Church of England, the BBC and now Channel 4 are all helping Muslims construct a parallel Islamic state.

Early next year, the think tank Civitas will publish a survey of 100 British Muslim schools. Entitled When Worlds Collide, it will argue that some of them are pushing pupils into ghettos. Young women, in particular, are forbidden to pursue career opportunities. "Every year, an incalculable number of Muslim young women are lost to the wider world," says the report. One school website links to al-Qaeda; another directs pupils to a scholar who advocates the murder of Jews.

Until recently, these radical mullahs were blamed for turning disaffected youths into bombers. But, in August, a leaked MI5 report revealed that Islamist terrorists tend not to be obvious religious extremists. The Muslim community usually knows nothing about them.

For years, the Government has offered Muslim leaders self-governance in return for information about "dangerous" elements. But if terrorists cannot be accurately identified, this is a waste of time. Unelected community leaders extend control over Muslims, yet society is no safer.

Self-censorship is crucial to this growing separatism. The BBC's director-general, Mark Thompson, says that Muslims should be treated more sensitively than Christians.

In America, Random House cancelled publication of Sherry Jones's novel The Jewel of Medina, about Mohammed's six-year-old bride Ayisha. But Martin Ryna of Gibson Square in London did agree to publish. Three men were subsequently charged with conspiring to damage his home. Islamic groups have threatened Borders bookshops with violence if they sell the novel.

Although most Muslims do not condone such attacks, many support the proposal that Islam should enjoy privileged status. After the 7/7 terrorist murders, the Home Office commissioned reports from Muslim working parties. Their recommendations included "Muslim teacher accreditation" to ensure special treatment for Muslim children; Muslim oversight of policing methods; and a new verbal etiquette in which Islamist terrorism should be referred to as "criminal" rather than religiously inspired. There were also hints that British Muslims should be allowed an unofficial veto over foreign policy.

In the event, the Government backed away from the more extreme demands. Others have been quietly met. A National Association of Muslim Police was set up in 2007 and is regularly consulted by senior officers.

Government ministers rarely put the words "Islam" and "terrorism" in the same sentence. Conservative front benchers follow the same practice, except when addressing the Conservative Friends of Israel. "I have been told off by three members of the shadow cabinet for using the phrase 'Islamist terrorism' when I have appeared with them," says Douglas Murray, director of the Centre for Social Cohesion.

The major development, however, has been the encroachment of Sharia law into public life. Last February, the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, declared that British Sharia was "inevitable." In fact, instruments for expanding it already exist. A network of Muslim Arbitration Tribunals (MATs) has been set up with Home Office support. In theory, these bodies are just a form of "alternative dispute resolution". They are "unable to deal with criminal offences", says the MAT website. Yet it also confirms that they can "assist" the police with domestic violence, sometimes "with a view to reconsidering criminal charges".

MATs also deal with wills, where Sharia discriminates against females. The Government is also anxious to attract Muslim investment by regulating British Islamic banking; the only way to do that is to grant legal recognition to Sharia.

According to Murray, "what we are seeing is the state deferring to a seventh-century Arabian tradesman as a source for secular law". He was speaking on Christmas Eve. The next day, Ahmadinejad spoke to the nation. Yesterday it was reported that Baroness Butler-Sloss, one of Britain's most senior legal figures, wants Sharia divorces to be enshrined in law. For the first time in decades, religion is moulding public life in this country; but that religion is not Christianity.

[James B]

Pak says evidence gathered by US, UK won't stand in court

[James B]

Now Digvijay's 26/11 theory: Terrorists made demands

The terrorists who attacked Mumbai last month wanted some jailed militants to be released in exchange of the hostages but the Manmohan Singh government rejected their demand, senior Congress leader Digvijay Singh said on Sunday.

[arama]

They are so open about supporting the Paki Army... What proof does anyone need.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 008_pg7_26

[Vivek_A]

In the image posted above, it talks about attacks on sea rock or land's end. AFAIK, sea rock has been closed since the bombing of 93. Has that changed?

[Div]

Making Sense of the Mumbai Attacks
http://fora.tv/2008/12/08/Making_Sense_ ... ai_Attacks

Georgetown University
Washington, DC
Dec 8th, 2008

In the wake of one of the most devastating terror attacks in years, how are we to understand the causes and respond?

A panel of top scholars (Bruce Hoffman, Shareen Joshi and Tristan Mabry) discuss in this Georgetown University event.

[VikramS]

Now Digvijay's 26/11 theory: Terrorists made demands

The terrorists who attacked Mumbai last month wanted some jailed militants to be released in exchange of the hostages but the Manmohan Singh government rejected their demand, senior Congress leader Digvijay Singh said on Sunday.

The senior Congress traitor is most probably referring to the phone call aired on the TV. The guy calling was so clueless when asked what his demands were, that he had to ask some one else. He then talked about freeing some mujahideen. And the traitor is using that to claim that NDA was soft on terror.

[negi]

Time to close this thread, Kangress has done very well in Delhi and J&K so the fear that public might vote them out of power has been dispelled. Hence we see Mumble singh and GOI returning to Business as Usual mode. Mumbai too has recuperated from the attacks .

-Life goes on sigh...

[Chinmayanand]

The real litmus test will be the state elections in Maharashtra.Let us see ,how the marathis react?If NCP and Congress win in Maharashtra, then BRF should not waste bandwidth and space on terrorism.By the way, when are the elections in Maharashtra?I think, i forgot something...din the rajasthanis give their verdict by voting Con-grace back in power...omg...so did the delhites...let's wait for maharashtra elections, after that India's love for mercy killing will be judged...

[Tilak]

X-posted:

Mumbai Terror Outfit's Teachings Exposed
Ahmar Mustikhan

A leading member of the Pakistan civil society has exposed the war-mongering ideology of the Jamaat ud Daawa, or JuD, the umbrella organization of the Lashkar-i-Toiba or Army of Pure—the terror outfit responsible for the Mumbai mayhem in November that left 200 people dead and over 300 injured.

Dr. Rubina Saigol of Action Aid Pakistan has expressed her disgust at the teachings of the jihadist outfit that had tried to show a softer face to the world immediately after the Mumbai attacks by inviting journalists to its headquarters in Muridke, Punjab.

The United Nations Security Council on December 11 imposed sanctions on the Pakistan-based terror outfit and declared four of its top leaders Dawaa chief Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, suspected Mumbai terror mastermind Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, Haji Muhammad Ashraf and Zaki-ur-Bahaziq as global terrorists.

Saigol posted her views on a progressive Pakistani public yahoogroups emailing list called SPN, with nearly 5,000 members. She was responding to the views of another liberal Pakistani editor, Omar R. Quraishi, editorial page editor of largest circulation English newspaper The News International.

In his article, Quraishi wrote: "Regrettably, this tendency to act superior than the rest of the world, ignore one's own warts and what not and to blame the rest of the world for all that ills the Islamic world is something that is found in many ordinary Pakistanis as well. Whether they have been influenced by organisations such as the JuD or whether the organisations have been influenced by the society that they have grown up in is not the issue but rather that the value system and worldview of the JuD and the LeT is in fact something that a lot of Pakistanis share -- particularly the view that a Hindu/Zionist/ American conspiracy of sorts has been put in motion to annihilate the Muslim world."

India still has plans to bomb the Muridke headquarters of the terror outfit and many people in the renegade province of Baluchistan believe New Delhi would be fully justified in doing so.

Even Indian Muslims were calling for tit-for-tat against Pakistan's rogue spy service Inter Services Intelligence and elements within the country's omnipotent army--the fourth largest in the world and armed with nuclear weapons. "The attacks were India's 911. The terror infrastructure has to be brought down. If the Congress Party will not act, it will lose the elections," the scion of a leading Muslim family from Mumbai said on a request of anonymity.

Saigol concurring with Quraishi's view on Jamaat ud Daawa gave some glaring examples from textbooks "that they distribute to their students and which are not available openly in the market." She added the books are published by Jamaat ud Daawa press and are given to students free of charge.

"The Mullahs [Islamic cleric] say that the books are meant to 'inspire' and to inculcate a truly Islamic spirit among students and to enable them to view Islam as a complete way of life, rather than as a set of rituals," Saigol said. "Through these textbooks children are given inspirational ideas and introduced to the objectives of Islam as seen by the Mullah. They are thus introduced the glorious Muslim past to inspire them to violence to re-create the past."

She said Jamaat ud Daawa argues that Muslims alone have right to rule the world and are allowed to kill infidels that stand in the way of Islam and this is being taught in textbooks used by the Jamaat ud Daawa.

Saigol said Daawa glorifies violence and hate and teaches the new version of alphabets in which children learn Bandook for Bai, Talwar for Tai, Tank for Ttai, jehaz for jeem and khanjar for khai, rocket for rai and tayyara for To-ay. [In English, all this will translate into G for gun, S for sword, T for tank, J for jet, K for knife, R for rocket and A for airplane.]

"In the Urdu textbook, children are told that infidels are cowards by nature and when a holy warrior attacks them, they scream with terror and fear," she said. "Mujahideen are glorified as being on a mission from Allah and they are superheroes that kill Hindus and make infidels cower in fear," she said, referring from the pages of the textbook.

She deplored games are organized around violence and killing and the children play with guns and learn to shoot at balloons, adding they play guerilla games of ambushing infidels, and in one story, a ten year old boy kills hundreds of Russians in Afghanistan .

She said poems and stories are taught about young boys that wage jihad and children read fictitious letters from jihadis killed in battle. “If I am killed in battle, celebrate”, reads one letter to a mother and sister in the seventh grade textbook, and then admonishes, “Make sure you conceal your body and never wear perfume.” Obscurantists among Muslims call this decadent and sexist practice hijab.

"India is presented as an enemy and Saudi Arabia as a best friend. Kashmir appears as Pakistani territory forcibly snatched by Hindus and Pakistan as a country created only for Muslims."

Saigol said children are instructed to mercilessly beat up non-Muslims and are told in the second grade textbook that every student should become a holy warrior and that they should be willing to lay down their lives for the great nuclear power that is Pakistan.

Quraishi notes: "Another (JuD) post is devoted to Mother's Day, or rather to equating it more or less with paganism. In fact, another post is on how Muslims should beware of doing actions that make them equal to kaafirs [infidels] -- such as celebrating their holy days and festivals. Also, it is clearly mentioned that non-Muslims are kaafirs and should not be even befriended."

Even after passage of one month, Pakistan is still in self-denial about the identity of the Mumbai terrorists. Though Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari initially admitted his country's non-state actors were involved in the Mumbai attacks, under the rogue army's instructions he has made a U-turn since then and said recently there were no solid proofs the lone surviving terrorist Ajmal Amir Kasab is a Pakistani national.

Pakistan's leading English newspaper DAWN--owned by a cousin of Hussain Haroon, Pakistan's permanent representative to the United Nations-- recently carried an interview of Kasab's father from the Punjab town of Faridkot, confirming his son's identity. Baring one, all the 10 Mumbai terrorists were from Punjab, stronghold of the Pakistan army.

[vdutta]

I went to Taj hotel and Gateway of India today.
My connecting flight in mumbai got delayed so i decided to brave local trains and go see the place myself.
It was full of energy, huge crowd, LOTS of Foreigners , lots of people of every faith but no fear in the air whatsoever.
It didnt feel like few hundred people died in that city in that place a month ago. It was mumbai as usual. Didnt look like this attack deterred people from doing their things and especially tourists from coming to india. Tourists especially females were walking alone with no sense of fear. I went to the small streets and still found tourists there.
i was glad i visited that place.
cheers

[Rishi]

The man who rode vehicle of death with Mumbai terrorists

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?news ... 3&pageid=0

MUMBAI: There were seven policemen in the vehicle including Hemant Karkare, Ashok Kamte and Vijay Salaskar when it was caught in an ambush outside Cama Hospital on the fateful night of Nov 26. Only Naik Arun Jadhav survived to tell the full story a month later.

With five bullet injuries and pretending to be dead, Salaskar's aide Jadhav sent the crucial wireless message about the movements of the terrorists that enabled the capture of Muhammad Ajmal Amir.

"As Kamte sahib and Salaskar sir, joined by Karkare sahib near Cama hospital, decided to enter the building to help out Sadanand Date sahib (additional commissioner of police) and his staff battling terrorists inside the hospital, Salaskar sir told me to stay back but I insisted on going with him," Jadhav said.

"I had never left him alone during any mission (Salaskar was in-charge of Mumbai Police's anti-extortion cell and Jadhav his assistant) in the last 12 years."

The three officers and Jadhav had reached the spot separately about 45 minutes after the terrorists fired indiscriminately at the Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST). The officers were thinking of the best way to enter Cama hospital to join Sadanand Date. (Cama hospital is a five-minute walk from CST.)

Just then, an injured constable came out of the hospital premises and told them that Date and all six personnel accompanying him were grievously hurt and that the terrorists were lurking somewhere on the fifth floor of the hospital.

Right then, a terrorist hurled a hand grenade from the fifth floor and Kamte instantly responded with a burst of fire from his AK-47.

This perhaps prompted the terrorists (Ajmal and Ismail) to flee from the hospital building, Jadhav surmises.

"As we (the three officers, a driver, two wireless operators and Jadhav) were moving towards the hospital's front gate, we got a wireless message that two terrorists were hiding behind bushes near a red coloured car on the way we were taking," Jadhav recalled.

"Kamte sahib told Salaskar sir, who had taken the steering a while earlier, to proceed slowly. An exchange of fire started within moments as all of us in the Toyota and the ambushing terrorists got a sense of each others' presence almost simultaneously."

Even as one of the terrorists (Ajmal) received bullet injuries on both his hands, the other one, hiding some distance away (Ismail) opened fire on the police vehicle, injuring all its occupants. It was near Rang Mahal, a short distance from Cama hospital.

"I was alive and fully in my senses though three bullets had pierced my right elbow and two had scratched my left shoulder," Jadhav said, adding that he thought all others too might be alive.

"But they were all dead," he recalled, with a lump in his throat.

Jadhav lay still feigning death amid the corpses of the driver and two wireless operators even as the terrorists dragged out the bodies of Kamte and Salaskar from the front seats and of Karkare from the one behind and threw them on the road.

"They wanted to drag us out too but could not open the third door of the Qualis as it had got locked from inside. Thinking that all four of us were dead, they drove the vehicle with our 'bodies' stacked behind them and stopped near Vidhan Bhavan as a punctured tyre loosened out, baring the disc," Jadhav said.

He was able to bear the acute pain of the five bullet injuries and lie motionless without a whimper for about 15 minutes that the terrorists zigzagged through south Mumbai.

"I have participated in at least 50 encounters with Salaskar sir and got injured twice; so I am used to it," he said.

But during those 15 minutes, Jadhav had another close call - the cell-phone of one of the dead policemen rang and the terrorist sitting next to the driver's seat opened fire behind him without looking back.

"I quickly ducked behind the seat and saved myself."

What proved to be vitally important was the wireless message the profusely bleeding Jadhav sent out about the direction in which the terrorists fled in a hijacked Skoda car after abandoning the Qualis.

It was because of this message that another police team could track down the terrorists in Girgaum, killing Ismail and catching Ajmal alive.

While Jadhav is happy to be alive, his regret is he could not save his boss Salaskar and the two other officers.

"I could not lift my gun because of injuries on the right hand; and I had given away my pistol to a police officer a while earlier," Jadhav said, adding that he could have killed both the terrorists if he had the pistol in his right hand.

But he thinks in retrospect that it was good as Ajmal is alive for interrogation.

With 20 years of police service behind him including 12 years of fighting underworld goons and after a close encounter with deadly terrorists, Jadhav wants to dedicate his second innings to his mentor Vijay Salaskar's memory.

"He was a lion-hearted man - demon for the goons and angel for his colleagues; he would always call me 'bhau' (brother) and say if I am encounter specialist, you are encounter master," Jadhav said as he broke down.

"I will live to carry forward the torch he has handed down to me."

[Tilak]

Now Digvijay's 26/11 theory: Terrorists made demands

The senior Congress traitor is most probably referring to the phone call aired on the TV. The guy calling was so clueless when asked what his demands were, that he had to ask some one else. He then talked about freeing some mujahideen. And the traitor is using that to claim that NDA was soft on terror.

Italian National Congress(Sonia)'s court poet is losing his marbles after Rajamata and Yuvaraja's charishma failed to muster votes in MP. Diggy Raja at a INC(S)'s "sadbhavana rally" in jehadi infested Azamgarh(UP) is reported to have said "Foundation of Terrorism was laid by L.K Advani, when he started his rath yatra". (wonder what happened to punjab, kashmir jihad.. et.al):roll:

No demands from terrorists during hostage crisis: Pranab

New Delhi (PTI): External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee on Tuesday rejected reports of any negotiations over release of prisoners with the terrorists during the Mumbai attack.

There were no demands from the terrorists and, therefore, there was no question of any negotiations, he told PTI in response to a question about Congress General Secretary Digvijay Singh's statement that the government had rejected the terrorists demand for release of prisoners during the hostage crisis.

"So far as the government is concerned absolutely there was no no such thing. In fact, they were shooting and killing and we were engaged in eliminating them," he said.

The government had already ruled out having negotiations with terrorists.

Forget about Akshun... Congress is after Elekshun.. Rest everything is Chai biscuit...

[Rangudu]

Link

Pakistani Islamist admits Mumbai link

Zahid Hussain

More evidence of a link between a Pakistan-based Islamist group and last month’s terrorist attacks in Mumbai has emerged after a leading member of the organisation allegedly admitted his complicity.

Zarar Shah, a top commander of Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), told investigators that he was in contact with the gunmen involved in the attacks, according to senior Pakistani sources.

Mr Shah was arrested this month along with Zakiaur Rehman, another LeT commander, in a raid on a militant camp in Pakistani-controlled Kashmir. Indian and Western security agencies had accused the pair of masterminding the attacks, which claimed the lives of 165 people in India’s commercial capital and stoked tensions between the two nuclear-armed nations.

Mr Shah is said to be the communication chief of LeT, which was outlawed by Pakistan in 2002. But the group continued to operate under the banner of Jamaat-ud-Dawa. Pakistan’s Government ordered the closure of all its offices after the UN Security Council declared it a front for terrorists.

[sum]

Is the INC going to get anything to sow to the voters from Pak?

The GoI tone seems to be getting softer and softer day by day!!!

[Rangudu]

Pakistan under pressure to extradite Lakhvi

By Anwar Iqbal

Wednesday, 31 Dec, 2008 | 12:05 AM PST |

WASHINGTON: Pakistan faces tremendous pressure from the United States to extradite Zaki al-Rahman Lakhvi, the alleged mastermind of the Mumbai terror attacks, to India, US and diplomatic sources told Dawn.

The Americans are believed to have given Pakistan a taped conversation Lakhvi allegedly had with the gunmen involved in the Mumbai attacks.

Diplomatic sources in Washington said that American audio experts had checked the tape and had concluded that it was genuine and that the speaker indeed was Lakhvi.

It is, however, not clear if the Americans recorded the conversation using their own surveillance methods or received the tape from the Indians who have blamed Lakhvi right from the beginning.

On December 4, less than a week after the attacks, Indian officials told reporters in New Delhi they believed Lakhvi and Yusuf Muzammil had masterminded the Mumbai operation.

They identified both as top leaders of the Lashkar-i-Taiba group, which India claimed was behind this and other terrorist attacks on its soil.

On December 8, Pakistani security officials told media that they had arrested Lakhvi and some of his top lieutenants but they also said that all suspects would be tried in Pakistan and will not be handed over to India.

But officials in both New Delhi and Washington said they will not be satisfied unless Islamabad followed up by prosecuting those arrested and taking further action against other militant groups allegedly linked to attacks in Indian.

Later, India urged Pakistan to hand over Lakhvi to Indian authorities along with at least two other suspects.

Until this week, US officials had not given a statement regarding the issue but Lakhvi’s reported conversation with the gunmen appeared to have changed their minds.

Reports in the US media noted that Lakhvi came from the same area as Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, the gunman arrested in Mumbai and identified by Indian authorities as one of the 10 terrorists.

Kasab’s village Faridkot is near Lakha, the ancestral village of the Lakhvis who are a prominent religious family in Punjab.

Officials in Islamabad, however, appeared reluctant to accept the intercepts of Lakhvi’s alleged confession provided to them by American and British intelligence agencies as authentic.

The intercepts allegedly showed Lakhvi having cell-phone conversations with the gunmen holed up inside Mumbai’s Taj hotel during the 60-hour siege.

But officials in Pakistan said that Kasab’s confession and other evidences were inadmissible in court. They said that since the confessions had been obtained under severe pressure by the Indians, this could not be admissible in judicial process. They have insisted that the information provided would not stand scrutiny in any court.

There, however, appears to be a serious difference of opinion between Islamabad and the Pakistan Embassy in Washington over the issue.

While Islamabad was reluctant to accept the evidence as authentic, the embassy insisted that it’s authentic and that the Pakistani authorities now needed to take steps to satisfy the international community.

Link

[John Snow]

SO what?

[Rangudu]

Since you only post that nothing matters and India is doomed anyways, why do you care?

[John Snow]

To cut the sensational tid bits that are in consequential. Show me what follows.
Besides who are you to judge me? Or to read my mind as to what I care. You go your path of publishing....which I for sure dont care

[negi]

Ok for time being lets assume extradition will take time, in the interim why has not GOI called for an official briefing of IDM and DDM correspondents , and lets put an end to this 'alleged', 'possible involvement of Pakistan' , 'blame game' etc. If World community is gonna hesitate or still choose to be in denial then how can you expect the same folks to pressurize GOP ?

Stuff like 'peaceful resolution' etc works only when the defaulter knows that he would be punished if he does not own up and do the needful .

[Gerard]

Burney seeks access to Kasab

[Rangudu]

Jumrao garu,

In one sentence you speak with two tongues - asking someone "who are you to judge me" but then judge me by saying in essence "what you post in sensational and inconsequential"

If you don't like someone's posts, the you have the option of not reading them or putting them on ignore.

Coming in and daily posting and insinuating that nothing anyone does is of use is just a waste of human effort and achieves nothing but discord.

For the rest of us, there are thread titles that we are interested in and we will post there even if you or others believe it is useless.

Sad that things have come to this. Tellingly this shows how an persistently negative world view and an idea that "it's all useless, we are doomed" achieves little.

Added later: If this post sounds harsh, I can assure you that no disrespect is intended. We are on the same side and I still enjoy your pithy comments. Just request that the monotony be moderated, that's all

[amit]

Tellingly this shows how an persistently negative world view and an idea that "it's all useless, we are doomed" achieves little.

Rangudu,

Boss I don't want to get into your discussion with Snowji (I love the monicker!)

However, the above quote is very perceptive IMVHO.

I hope folks realise it's precisely this attitude which results in statements like: "Both Pak and India are victims of terrorism onlee..."

Or Suzzane A Roy's puke in Guardian to the effect that Babari Majid was responsible for the Mumbai massacre etc.

We criticise (and rightly so!) all these pukes yet we allow ourselves to wallow in exactly the same mentality which produces these pieces of sh**t.

Another example: The Orbat news report which you posted about 120,000 Indian soldiers for Afghanistan. I dunno if it's a fact or not but did you notice that during the discussion that ensured folks who have accused "Mumble" Singh of inaction and worse have rushed in to say what a bad idea it is since Indian will be bootlicking the US, soldiers lives will be lost etc.

Yet these same folks haven't articulated what alternative form of action is available apart from action which could result in a full scale war.

Afterall: "It's all useless, we are doomed".


(Please note I'm not necessarily against a full scale war to finally settle the problem once and for all but that should IMO be the last resort strategy when all other potential options have been exhausted).

[Vikram_S]

^^

mms is called mumble mumble singh because of the way he speak and acts - absolutely nothing inspirational and only broken record

it is also justified mark of contempt for so called leader who has done next to nothing to secure india from terrorism and instead gave pakistan a clean chit of health on fellow victim of terrorism, peace process is irreversible

if he had track record of at least trying if not executing it would be easy to give him 15th chance (not even 1st, 2nd...) instead he does not even appear to think on strong lines against terror given previous record. he has let his personal bias and liberalism and desire for power to be PM overrule his duty to protect public.

he is clearly not PVN rao or indira gandhi. they were leaders. this man is puppet.

Yet these same folks haven't articulated what alternative form of action is available apart from action which could result in a full scale war.

if you dont read any discussion and then come in what makes you think nothing has been said?

braman and many other have constantly maintained line that covert action like JIT-X should be restarted in pakistan.

instead MMS has also done nothing. at least ABV had option of parakram mobilization & fire assault in 2002 to avoid taking this decision. but MMS does not have liberty of that option so what is stopping him from doing this for past few years?

instead HM Patil went and gave clean chit to BDs. MMS called Pak fellow victim of terror and played up peace process, and the jokes kept coming. now even antulay cannot be touched. so talk of being strong on terror is just talk!!

dont talk, deliver!!

and we indians in india keep dying like dogs.

even this going to afghanistan business is just another kite flying exercise for now i feel. because if antulay cannot be stopped what guarantee is mms can sell this idea in congress and UPA.

even i fully agree with rangudu that afghanistan is our business and sbajwa is also right about learning from past.

but i have doubt this GOI can pull this event off. with pay commission mess and malegaon they have also demoralised army. i will support this as taxpayer only if this is long term plan and armed forces needs are carefully thought of and full support from all section in UPA is assured for long term (not like treatment of police in batla house). otherwise enough people have died already for sake of fake national pride and electioneering and sending army without proper plan is disaster.

india has already shamed armed services many times --> ipkf people were treated shamelessly and this should not repeat for afghanistan with IM/laloo/amar singh types using armed services to score point for local votes

[amit]

if you dont read any discussion and then come in what makes you think nothing has been said?

It's difficult to discuss something with a poster who says this.

You see Vikram, unlike some worthies here I don't suffer from verbal diarrhea and so I don't rush to hit the Submit button at a drop of a hat. And so just because my post count aggregation is not astoundingly high does not necessarily mean I don't read what others are posting.

Please try to read the context of what I wrote along with R-man's post to understand what I was telling him, if you feel the need to jump in with a post.

And I'm sorry if I just happen to use your patented "Mumble" Singh and not "Snake-oil" Singh or "Constable" Singh. Please rest assured it was an oversight on my part and not really because I happen to like your moniker for the Prime Minister of India over the other equally entertaining ones that have been posted.

Afterall how does it matter? "It's all useless, we are doomed".

And we are doomed because the only really strong Indians who can make a difference happen to be just Internet warriors, super dexterous in devising adjectives at a drop of a hat, and do no occupy the kurshi in Delhi.

Oh by the way since you brought up the issue of Bangladesh I'm sure you saw my post (after all I assume you read each and every post) that I posted sometime ago about the "heroic" response that we had in 2001-2002 or thereabouts when 15 BSF soldiers were lured into Bangladesh on pretext of talks and tortured and butchered and then their bodies were carried tied to a poll much like a dead cow carcass.

Sri Patil, I'm sure, gave a clean chit to Bangladesh, following illustrious predecessors because he's convinced "it's all useless, we are doomed."

MMS called Pak fellow victim of terror and played up peace process, and the jokes kept coming. now even antulay cannot be touched. so talk of being strong on terror is just talk!!

If you had cared to read my post you'd have noticed I at one point called this statement by MMS a "puke" and at another point described it and other similar statements as "sh**t". Perhaps even that does not satisfy your high standards of running down the Prime Minister of India as if that alone can ensure that the Pakis hand over all terrorists to India out of shame and out of fear that the same adjectives would be used against them like WMD.

[Vikram_S]

It's difficult to discuss something with a poster who says this.

You see Vikram, unlike some worthies here I don't suffer from verbal diarrhea and so I don't rush to hit the Submit button at a drop of a hat.

LOL, who are the worthies? so are you now so scared of worthies you cant take name and say worthies and verbal diarrhea.

hiding behind somebody shoulder (rangudus) and taking shots is easy.

stand on your own and make your own points.

what you are doing is being very smart and avoiding admin comments by taking shots at other members while you think since you did not use names openly nobody will recognise it

And so just because my post count aggregation is not astoundingly high does not necessarily mean I don't read what others are posting.

you obviously did not...otherwise where would that comment about alternate ideas come?
people have given hundreds of ideas in different threads..some are total BS. some are logical. some are radical. but to say what you have done is wrong.

Please try to read the context of of what I wrote along with R-man's post to understand.

And I'm sorry if I just happen to use your patented "Mumble" Singh and not "Snake-oil" Singh or "Constable" Singh. Please rest assured it was an oversight on my part and not really because I happen to like your moniker for the Prime Minister of India over the other equally entertaining ones that have been posted.

LOL again at your childish sarcasm. do you think snake oil singh or constable singh makes any difference?

did i use those words? NO

then what is the relevance of making those accusation?

if i or anyone call him mother teresa or mumble mumble does it make any difference?

i am just dog on the street barking at high and mighty person with SPG protection! what difference does it make to you also? only thing dog has left is to bark on the street corner, that is the status of us citizens!!

i dont care if he is attila hun and loots 10,000 crores as long as he is strong on security. indira gandhi was nobody angel but she did what was required at hard times.

is that also too much to ask from PM of the country?

Afterall how does it matter? "It's all useless, we are doomed".

And we are doomed because the only really strong Indians who can make a difference happen to be just Internet warriors, super dexterous in devising adjectives at a drop of a hat, and do no occupy the kurshi in Delhi.

who is internet warrior? somebody on the ground with a vote and pissed off at the reality or people sitting behind some computer screen in "little red dot" wherever who cares that is?

coming to kursi in delhi, what is your arguement, superman wearing red chaddis sits in delhi so that delhi cannot be questioned? LOL, delhis competence is now discussed at every corner in india, sorry to disappoint you. it would be more funny but delhi incompetence (whole system) has become national problem.

Oh by the way since you brought up the issue of Bangladesh I'm sure you saw my post (after all I assume you read each and every post) that I posted sometime ago about the "heroic" response that we had in 2001-2002 or thereabouts when 15 BSF soldiers were lured into Bangladesh on pretext of talks and tortured and butchered and then their bodies were carried tied to a poll much like a dead cow carcass.

so who cares about your desire for "heroic response"?

did you do something for the soldiers? otherwise allow me, as indian taxpayer to care two hoots about your "i shall win arguement by this" description, here you are talking of total war and sending troops to afghanistan where they will be butchered far worse and then what will GOI do?

at least in bangladesh india was outplayed by bangladesh because so called pro-India GOB was in power and could not be "destabilised" by attacking military. but even then india did several ops against militants.

here what is india going to do?

are you going to leave comfortable computer in red dot land and save indian troops in afghanistan?

Sri Patil, I'm sure, gave a clean chit to Bangladesh, following illustrious predecessors because he's convinced "it's all useless, we are doomed."

mix up analogy do not work.

dont blame patils foolishness on others.

ask what did he not do when he was in power. he did not have to make pro BD statements even if his hand were tied.

what did patil do after mumbai bomb attacks and ahmedabad attack and bangalore attack? i have been seeing patil everytime, on TV, on paper, and on night of attack. again total incompetence and lack of awareness.

keeping defending him as much as you want but at least have some logic and think of what consequences will be of sending troop into danger when internal party itself is so fragmented.

all this "we are doomed" business and your sarcasm makes person of my age laugh at the childishness of word play on a forum. as if that bloody makes difference!

there are other options including covert option to make TSP pay which should be used.

if you have convincing idea of why covert war against TSP should not be used, give the reason, plus or minus.

also i find it better than to send indian troops to afghanistan.

also as the dog in the street to be made target by passing jihadis my life expectancy is the same as in both scenario but at least i do not have guilt of sending people like unni and gajendar singh to death and then watching comedy over "not even dog will go to the house". or comedy from antulay about "who actually killed those soldiers".

i have seen reaction to IPKF from patriot politician in india. i have no desire to see same reaction to APKF. (A for...) while so called IM leaders become TV expert on Indian Army

your basic post was there are no other idea apart from afghan or nobody has come up with idea
---> same crowd calling MMS mumble have no idea.

above is an idea about covert ops. tell everyone here why it will not work and why afghan is the only option.

[RayC]

Easy does it chaps.

Get back to the subject!

The chopping block is being made ready or so I believe!

Ray (in the Moderator avatar)

[amit]

Vikram,

Boss all I can say to your super long post (please note I'm not calling it verbal diarrhea just yet) with this response:

You know why?

Because you have dissected each and every line/argument that I wrote in my post excepting for one paragraph. This one:

If you had cared to read my post you'd have noticed I at one point called this statement by MMS a "puke" and at another point described it and other similar statements as "sh**t". Perhaps even that does not satisfy your high standards of running down the Prime Minister of India as if that alone can ensure that the Pakis hand over all terrorists to India out of shame and out of fear that the same adjectives would be used against them like WMD.

Now I wonder why?

However, I leave you to give an answer if you so desire.

And since I have no need to run to a place where people do when the feel an urge to release some "toxic" substances from their bodies, I'll leave the last word/post on this subject to you.

Cheers!

Amit,
I have asked you and Vikram to lay off.
- Ray

[amit]

Ray Sir,

That was my last post in any case on the subject. I really have no clue what happened! But thanks for intervening. I think I hit the submit button (for my last post) at the same time you sent your post - I'm experiencing a slow connection from my end. If you so wish you can delete my last post I can't seem to do it from my end.

Thanks

[Vikram_S]

deleted

[Vikram_S]

@ RayC

sir, point taken -- but let us children have the final discussion.

some confusion is here, just addressing. so my last reply is below.

please delete the below if you find it is incorrect.

i just wished to set the record straight about my reply.

Deleted. Not material to the subject under discussion,
Ray

[amit]

Deleted.
action taken and hence not required.

[Vikram_S]

Deleted.

Enough is enough.

To all.

Keep a civil tongue in your head.

RayC

[pgbhat]

whisky-tango-foxtrot ......................Now what is TSP upto?


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123068308893944123.html

Pakistan's Probe Finds Local Links To Attacks On Mumbai
By ZAHID HUSSAIN, MATTHEW ROSENBERG and PETER WONACOTT

ISLAMABAD -- Pakistan's own investigation of terror attacks in Mumbai has begun to show substantive links between the 10 gunmen and an Islamic militant group that its powerful spy agency spent years supporting, say people with knowledge of the probe.

At least one top leader of militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba, or "Army of the Pure," captured in a raid earlier this month in Pakistani-controlled Kashmir, has confessed the group's involvement in the attack as India and the U.S. have alleged, according to a senior Pakistani security official.

The disclosure could add new international pressure on Pakistan to accept that the attacks, which left 171 dead in India, originated within its borders and to prosecute or extradite the suspects. That raises difficult and potentially destabilizing issues for the country's new civilian government, its military and the spy agency, Inter-Services Intelligence -- which is conducting interrogations of militants it once cultivated as partners.

Pakistani security officials say a top Lashkar commander, Zarar Shah, has admitted a role in the Mumbai attack during interrogation, according to the security official, who declined to be identified discussing the investigation. "He is singing," the security official said of Mr. Shah. The admission, the official said, is backed up by U.S. intercepts of a phone call between Mr. Shah and one of the attackers at the Taj Mahal Palace & Tower, the site of a 60-hour confrontation with Indian security forces.

A second person familiar with the investigation said Mr. Shah told Pakistani interrogators that he was one of the key planners of the operation, and that he spoke with the attackers during the rampage to give them advice and keep them focused.

The person said Mr. Shah had implicated other Lashkar members, and had broadly confirmed the story told by the sole captured gunman to Indian investigators -- that the 10 assailants trained in Pakistan's part of Kashmir and then went by boat from Karachi to Mumbai. Mr. Shah said the attackers also spent at least a few weeks in Karachi, a crowded Arabian Sea port, training in urban combat to hone skills they would use in their assault.

Mr. Shah was picked up along with fellow Lashkar commander Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi during the military camp raids in Kashmir.

The Mumbai attacks have stoked tensions in India and Pakistan, producing allegations and counterallegations that have both countries headed toward conflict. Pakistan recently redeployed some troops from the fight against Islamic militants toward the Indian border, and India warned its citizens not to travel to Pakistan. India and Pakistan, both nuclear-armed, have fought three wars since their independence in 1947.

The probe also is stress-testing an uncomfortable shift under way at Pakistan's spy agency -- and the government -- since the election of civilian leadership replacing the military-led regime earlier this year. Military and intelligence officials acknowledge they have long seen India as their primary enemy and Islamist extremists such as Lashkar as allies. But now the ISI is in the midst of being revamped, and its ranks purged of those seen as too soft on Islamic militants.

That revamp and the Mumbai attacks are in turn putting pressure on the civilian leadership, which risks a backlash among the population -- and among elements of ISI and the military -- if it is too accommodating to India. "The ISI can make or break any regime in Pakistan," said retired Gen. Mirza Aslam Beg, a former army chief. "Don't fight the ISI."

The delicate politics of the Mumbai investigation have given the spy agency renewed sway just when the government was trying to limit its influence. A Western diplomat said the question now is what Pakistan will do with the evidence it is developing.

The big fear in the West and India is a repeat of what happened after a 2001 attack on India's parliament, which led to the ban on Lashkar. Top militant leaders were arrested only to be released months later. Lashkar and other groups continued to operate openly, even though formal ISI connections were scaled back or closed, the diplomat said.

"They've got the guys. They have the confessions. What do they do now?" the diplomat said. "We need to see that this is more than a show. We want to see the entire infrastructure of terror dismantled. There needs to be real prosecutions this time."

A spokesman for new president Asif Ali Zardari, Farhatullah Babar, said Tuesday that he wasn't aware of the Pakistani investigation yet producing any links between Lashkar militants and the Mumbai attacks. "The Interior Ministry has already stated that the government of Pakistan has not been furnished with any evidence," he said.

The Pakistani security official cautioned that the investigation is still in early stages and a more full picture could emerge once India decides to share more information. Pakistani authorities didn't have evidence that Lashkar was involved in the attacks before the militants' arrest in Kashmir, the security official said; they were captured based only on initial guidance from U.S and British authorities.

Vishnu Prakash, a spokesman for India's Foreign Ministry, said in a telephone interview that all India's evidence will be shared with Pakistan soon, when the investigation is complete. But Mr. Prakash expressed doubt Pakistan would act, based on what he said was its investigative track record: "Whenever actionable intelligence is given, our friends make sure it is neutralized, and then it cannot be acted upon," he said.

In the nearly four months since Mr. Zardari was elected, civilian and military leaders have been working to remake the role the ISI plays in the country's affairs, and take aim at an intelligence apparatus that diplomats and analysts suspect still hasn't fully severed links to extremist groups such as Lashkar.

New agency chief Lt. General Ahmed Shuja Pasha and army chief Gen. Ashfaq Kayani have flushed out top and mid-level hard-liners associated with the agency's murky past dealings with terrorist organizations. Two deputies under Gen. Pasha's predecessor were removed and dozens of other lower-level officials sacked. The agency's political cell, which monitored the country's own politicians and parties and helped make it a political kingmaker, has been closed, its operatives dispersed through the agency.

In a televised remarks Tuesday, Pakistan's foreign minister, Shah Mahmood Qureshi, said Pakistan offered to send a high-level delegation to New Delhi to help investigate the Mumbai attacks.

"Traditionally there has been a sort of disconnect between the political leadership and the leadership of the security establishment," said Mr. Babar, the spokesman for Mr. Zardari. Under the new regime, he said, "There is harmony."

There also have been increasing tensions. Mr. Zardari -- who replaced his wife, former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, as their party's candidate to lead the country after her assassination last year -- has faced frequent reminders that the military's step back from political control has its limits, and could be reversed.

Mr. Zardari initially offered to send Gen. Pasha himself to aid India's investigation into the Mumbai attacks, then had to rescind it when the military objected. He surprised the military this month by announcing Pakistan would never hit India with a first-strike nuclear attack.

Two months before his election, Mr. Zardari as party chief mounted an attempt to wrest the control of the ISI from the military and place it under a close political adviser. Word spread through a wedding attended by Pakistan's top army brass. "I was certainly not consulted," a grim-faced Gen. Kayani told another guest. Top army officials started working the phones. The next day, July 27, the government announced that its original notice had been "misinterpreted." It later withdrew the notice entirely.

ISI's headquarters, surrounded by manicured lawns and fountains, sits behind unmarked walls and armed checkpoints in the heart of Islamabad. Founded in 1948, the ISI moved into politics during Pakistan's military governments of the 1960s. It formally established its political cell under a civilian prime minister -- Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, father of Mr. Zardari's murdered wife. But over the years the spy chiefs -- the agency leadership is all active military officers -- often proved more loyal to the military than the government.

During the Soviet Union's occupation of neighboring Afghanistan in the 1980s, Pakistan's spies became partners with the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, which cultivated the same insurgent groups at the time. In the 1990s, the ISI helped fashion Lashkar into one of the most potent Islamic militant forces battling Indian troops in Kashmir.

The Indian government blamed the ISI for helping plot the 1993 Mumbai bombings, which killed hundreds of people. The agency and Pakistan government still deny ISI involvement. The ISI purged scores of extremist officers from its ranks. But Pakistan continued to support anti-India militants in Kashmir and the ISI maintained extensive links to the Taliban, according to Western and Indian security officials. Current and former ISI officials acknowledge the ISI maintained extensive links to the Taliban.

After the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks in the U.S., Pakistan's military-led government signed on as an ally in the global battle against Islamic terrorism, and the ISI helped coalition forces rout the Taliban. According to a former ISI officer, hundreds of ISI operatives involved with the Afghan cell were removed from ISI.

In recent years, Lashkar and other groups have turned to waging global violence against largely civilian targets, putting Pakistan under rising pressure from its allies and complicating peace negotiations with India. The groups also are striking targets within Pakistan. They have become, said the ISI official, "a monster we've created that we can't put back in the box."

Pakistan banned Lashkar under pressure from the U.S. and India in 2002 but did little to curtail its activities until earlier this month, when it enforced a new United Nations resolution banning its charitable front, Jamaat-ud-Dawa, and arrested senior leaders of both organizations.

The current revamp of the ISI began in September when President Zardari and Gen. Kayani replaced the agency's chief, Lt. General Nadeem Taj, who was seen as not aggressive enough toward militants. The new chief, Gen. Pasha, has overseen major offensives against al Qaeda-supported militants in Pakistan's tribal regions.

[Vikram_S]

@pgbhat

rangudu has posted a report in another thread which says there is pressure by US on Pak to hand over lakhvi to india.

this appears to be set up so that pak can say own agency has found evidence so xyz will be tried in pakistan.

note in above article:

Mr. Shah was picked up along with fellow Lashkar commander Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi during the military camp raids in Kashmir.

this is not first time.

in 1980's/1990's dont remember exactly which years, ties between Rajiv and Zia were warmed up, so Zia in pretending "good diplomacy" tried some Sikh (?) hijackers in pakistan who were otherwise in Pak as guests

it was all big joke from POV of security establishment

point is none of these guys will come to india (list of 20), each guy will be gold mine for RAW,CIA and that is not in Pak interest

it is actually sad that ISI guy Hamid Gul was not target by UNSC as India/US wanted --> this man is responsible for deaths of many thousand indians in Punjab and J&K (father of ISI insurgency in Punjab)

somehow indian media never touches on this (short memory)