Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 10 Dec 2008 14:28

^yes, but these units were from mumbai and not flown from j&k,

that's some logic ! I'm sure the units/personnel are not anchored to one location as you seem to think.
SF units would be rotated and would probably retain most of the fatigues etc. may be the personnel were just back from K or were preparing to go there ! who knows ?
all I do know is that the gun has been IDed as the SVDS, one knowledgeable person has claimed that MARCOS is the only force using it.
the fact that the SVDS is a highly compact SF oriented product lends credence to this theory.
the IA SF units which do use snipers do not specialise in urban HR operations(they have completely different roles) and none were reported to be present in mumbai.

also, regular IA units use the the fixed stock dragunov and the IMI galatz in the sniper role.

all in all, I'm convinced that the sniper is from MARCOS.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 10 Dec 2008 14:54

hey i didnt claim units are not rotated. i only said he is not from the marcos unit.

also check the link posted by Dmurphy, which mentions the person in the pic as belonging to indian army.
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/India-fin ... d0d1bf917/
An Indian army sniper climbs up the scaffolding near The Taj Mahal Hotel in Mumbai on November 27. Army commandos have laid siege to the Taj Mahal and the Oberoi Trident hotel where gunmen held foreign guests hostage as part of coordinated attacks across India's financial capital that have left up to 100 dead.(AFP/Indranil Mukherjee)

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 10 Dec 2008 15:02

avinash, it is certainly not advisable to go on the caption produced by a press photographer who is very unlikely to be an expert or even knowledgeable about the military.
I doubt if he can tell a 1A1 from a dragunov !
if you do I'll also ask you to believe that the 130mm russian field gun is also known as bofors, the hawk is a fighter-bomber or that a fixed wing prop transport is known as a helicopter (and on and on) !

I have given the argument on why I consider it unlikely that the sniper in question was from IA, if it's not good enough for you then I must say sorry because I can't help you.
regards.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 10 Dec 2008 16:27

^i agree some of the articles on defence matters are ddm grade but here there are more reasons to believe that photgrapher is right. ok, until there are any new development that reveals the true identity of the person in the pic let's keep our opinion on the pic to ourselves. let's not waste a whole thread discussing just 1 pic.

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 13 Dec 2008 12:20

Is the yellow circle houses the jet fuel starter and the green circle it's exhaust?

Cheers....

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 13 Dec 2008 20:02

I am a new member here...i joined today only..i have many unanswered questions....i'll start with camo patterns of the IA

Can you please tell me the reason why there are 2 different camo patterns being worn? For eg. 1st row, the two soldiers on extreme right.

Vikram_S · Post by **Vikram_S** » 14 Dec 2008 07:35

Avinash R wrote:^i agree some of the articles on defence matters are ddm grade but here there are more reasons to believe that photgrapher is right. ok, until there are any new development that reveals the true identity of the person in the pic let's keep our opinion on the pic to ourselves. let's not waste a whole thread discussing just 1 pic.

based on pmund statement/picture of another guy in same kit, in other thread that guy is a marcos

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 14 Dec 2008 07:39

^i agree some of the articles on defence matters are ddm grade but here there are more reasons to believe that photgrapher is right. ok, until there are any new development that reveals the true identity of the person in the pic let's keep our opinion on the pic to ourselves. let's not waste a whole thread discussing just 1 pic.

seems I had missed this.
what are those reasons ?
unfortunately you haven't forwarded any in the series of posts on this topic.

/sorry for the late reply.

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 18 Dec 2008 19:24

@ SSridhar
Thanks a lot. But can you also answer my question about the camo patterns please?
Also, can you please tell me how to post pics the way you did? (in my post, that is)

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 20 Dec 2008 10:50

After the 26/11 incident, I believe that the govt will be forced to address the greviences of the Armed Forces, w.r.t their pay parity and seniority w.r.t their civilain counterparts. It is time that the Govt heed to these legititmate demands.

While agreeing to address the demands of the Armed Forces, I think the govt should also use this issue to push forward with some of its own issues with the respective Armed Force. They might want to argue saying, "we will accept your demands if,....."

Army : - Conduct compartivie trials between the T-70, T-90 and Arjun MBT and if the Arjun performs better than the other 2, then make the Army induct more of the Ajuns into the Army.

Air Force : - Induct more than the 40 MK1 LCA Tejas they have agreed to induct. As the next iteration of the LCA design becomes available for induction, depending on the design, the MK1 could either be upgraded or taken out of service and its common systems used in the MK2.

Navy : - errr..Not quite sure what the Navy is being unreasonable about. All newspapers report about the Navy indicate that the Navy is quite objective and level-headed about its acquisitions.

Taking a look at the specs of the LCA and comparing it with that of the JF-17 Thunder, it is plainly visible that the LCA is a technologically superior aircraft. The only thing going for the JF-17 thunder is that due to lower requirements of the PAF, it is now ready for induction into the PAF

Considering that the JF-17 is being sought after by the Air Forces of around 8 other countries, an operational LCA would give these buyers yet another option, diminishing the chances of the JF-17 Thunder's export. Not only would the inducted LCA mantain the military edge of the IAF, it would also serve to hurt the Pakistani economy further.

The induction of the Arjun too would serve similar ends. Developing countries seeking to replace their tanks could also take the Arjun MBT into consideration. A comparion between the specs of the Al-Khalid and Arjun MBT, the Arjun prevails

I think that the Armed Forces are being unreasonable in their refusal to induct these systems in their current form, especially since these are technologically superior to what the Pakistanis are inducting.

Also, why aren't we offering to sell weapons to countries in Africa that are waging civil war in their countries. Sierra Leone, DRC, Sudan, Zimbabwe come to my mind. The Chinese seem to be doind all this. not only are they earning a handsome booty out of this, they are also in a postion to influence decisions in these countries in their favour.

These countries dont need high end systems. Their requirements IMO can easily be fullfilled by our OFB. An assuared supply of weapons to the sudanese govt would create a far more favorable conditions for our companies like ONGC over there

And ya... we should get back our troops from the tamasha called UNPKF. they are a complete waste of manpower that earns neither the goodwill of the people in power nor does it help resolve issues.

ChandraS · Post by **ChandraS** » 21 Dec 2008 08:32

atreya wrote:@ SSridhar
Thanks a lot. But can you also answer my question about the camo patterns please?
Also, can you please tell me how to post pics the way you did? (in my post, that is)

Atreya:

The camo pattern on the fatigues on the right of the pic is the older pattern. The ones of the left are the newer DPM (Disruptive Pattern Material) adopted by the IA. It is developed by the DRDO and there is a phased adoption of these patterns. You can check out the Military Pictures thread in this forum, where you will see the newer pattern used in the exercises with other forces.

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 21 Dec 2008 20:49

Thanks a lot, Chandra sir!
But, I also remember reading in some forums about some new Digital Camo being adopted...I am sure this is'nt Digital Camo....What is its status?
Secondly, you were saying the new pattern is being adopted in a phased manner...but is'nt it being stretched a bit too long? Because i remember seeing this pattern atleast an year ago. Are all new soldiers wearing the new pattern?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 22 Dec 2008 17:10

atreya wrote: Also, can you please tell me how to post pics the way you did? (in my post, that is)

Atreya, just edit or quote the corrected post and you will find how it has been done.

Read the FAQ as well as this .

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 22 Dec 2008 22:51

In Vivek's scenario, shouldn't the Chinese soldiers have AK-56 or they carry AK-47 too?

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 23 Dec 2008 13:43

jamwal wrote:In Vivek's scenario, shouldn't the Chinese soldiers have AK-56 or they carry AK-47 too?

Type-56 has been replaced in PLA with Type-81 in the 80s and now they are gradually shifting towards 5.8X42 caliber Type-95 (bullpup) and Type-3 (conventional). So if the scenerio is based somewhere in near future than Type 81 makes more sense.

Cheers....

Vikram_S · Post by **Vikram_S** » 24 Dec 2008 07:26

atreya wrote:Thanks a lot, Chandra sir!
But, I also remember reading in some forums about some new Digital Camo being adopted...I am sure this is'nt Digital Camo....What is its status?
Secondly, you were saying the new pattern is being adopted in a phased manner...but is'nt it being stretched a bit too long? Because i remember seeing this pattern atleast an year ago. Are all new soldiers wearing the new pattern?

million man army---> new cammo will take time to induct.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 24 Dec 2008 22:38

neerajbhandari

Thanks

Vikram_S wrote:
atreya wrote:Thanks a lot, Chandra sir!
But, I also remember reading in some forums about some new Digital Camo being adopted...I am sure this is'nt Digital Camo....What is its status?
Secondly, you were saying the new pattern is being adopted in a phased manner...but is'nt it being stretched a bit too long? Because i remember seeing this pattern atleast an year ago. Are all new soldiers wearing the new pattern?
million man army---> new cammo will take time to induct.

I've seen quite a few soldiers in J&K who were dressed in different camo. The patterns on their uniform were vertical, not horizontal like in the picture posted above.

Anybody has any idea what force wears a black dress, carries INSAS rifles and wears a red turban? There were quite a few personnel deployed at some places in Jammu today on polling day.

ChandraS · Post by **ChandraS** » 25 Dec 2008 05:06

Vikram_S wrote:
atreya wrote:Thanks a lot, Chandra sir!
But, I also remember reading in some forums about some new Digital Camo being adopted...I am sure this is'nt Digital Camo....What is its status?
Secondly, you were saying the new pattern is being adopted in a phased manner...but is'nt it being stretched a bit too long? Because i remember seeing this pattern atleast an year ago. Are all new soldiers wearing the new pattern?
million man army---> new cammo will take time to induct.

To add to Vikram_S, the newer DPM is made by DRDO with input from NIFT and IISc (maybe). The material is newer variety (Some thing about cellulose) that will better meet the requirements of the military. The manufacturers of this fabric have been kept to a select few only. Also, the uniforms can only be procured from designated places. This is primarily to prevent the assorted varieties of 'freedom fighters' laying their hands on it and dressing up as military. This is the main reason for the phased adoption extending this long. All for good only.

Of course, all the above is from my memory of reading news reports/press releases a while back on this issue. More knowledgeable folks will be able to give you the correct picture.

Lastly, don't sir me please. There are many other maharathis here who will have to sirred before getting to me.

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 25 Dec 2008 10:52

Pakistani Ranger's Brigadier Qaiser Khan Tareen (L) shakes hands with India's Border Security Force's Deputy Inspector General Mohammad Aquil

An interesting pic I have scooped out. Now that is a completely new type of camo! It seems the BSF is adopting the digital pattern, while the IA is adopting the aforementioned camo pattern. Is there any reason why the two forces are adopting COMPLETELY different patterns? Would'nt it be better if both adopt the same camo?

Another interesting image. Desert Camo! I have never seen it before

Akshut · Post by **Akshut** » 25 Dec 2008 15:21

Hello all the Rakshaks here..... I am a newbie here and this is my first post.
My question is that why is nobody stopping that pakistani ranger in the middle of the pic, from stepping inside the border of INDIA. Can he be shot or atleast arrested for this violation??

Akshut · Post by **Akshut** » 25 Dec 2008 18:04

Do anyone know what are these black watches worn by both the solders. The pic is from recent Sino-Indian exercise.

Rishi · Post by **Rishi** » 25 Dec 2008 18:15

Thats not a watch. Look closely.. its is a wristband with the Indian Emblem (Sarnath Lion relief) on it

. Do we use this instead of Dog Tags?

What regiment is this? The above pic has some interesting badges. Balidan and something else (Para wings) on the guy behind the sardar.

Akshut · Post by **Akshut** » 25 Dec 2008 18:37

Oh yes!!! Thanks Rishi... I just watched Quantum of Solace, and it might be 007 effect that i took it as a watch.

The pic is from latest Sino-India military exercise, i think it's some Maratha regiment but not sure though.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 25 Dec 2008 23:45

Deleted.Incomplete Post

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 25 Dec 2008 23:46

The wrist band is a mark worn by senior NCOs taked as Company Havaldar Majors (CHM). IIRC, it is an appointment. The Sikh soldier is from Sikh Light Infantry.
Indian Army does ues Dog Tags

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 26 Dec 2008 06:31

A few questions:

1) Why is the "Forum feed temporarily offline" now permanent?
2) While posting, we can either post a URL like ordinary text or embedd it between [ url /] tags. In either case, the rendering of the link is the same! So whats the difference?
3) Earlier links in BR used to open in a new window, which was desirable since we could continue with the BR page. So why does the link now open in the same window ?? This is very annoying.

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 26 Dec 2008 13:01

AdityaM wrote:A few questions:

1) Why is the "Forum feed temporarily offline" now permanent?
2) While posting, we can either post a URL like ordinary text or embedd it between [ url /] tags. In either case, the rendering of the link is the same! So whats the difference?
3) Earlier links in BR used to open in a new window, which was desirable since we could continue with the BR page. So why does the link now open in the same window ?? This is very annoying.

Should it not be in the Suggestions thread

BTW I support BR's decision of not making pages open in New windows....very irritating it was
If you desire it to behave that way then just Right click the link and

Opera - E
Firefox - T
IE - W
Safari - select Open link in New Tab

The ealier mtheod only cluttered the browser taskbar

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 26 Dec 2008 15:24

rohitvats wrote:The wrist band is a mark worn by senior NCOs taked as Company Havaldar Majors (CHM). IIRC, it is an appointment.

The Havildar appointments of Company Havildar Major (CHM), Regimental Quarter Master Havildar (RQMH) and Regimental Havildar Major (RHM) wear their rank insignia on the wrist (on a wrist band which looks like a watch

). These ranks are appointments, and when a Havildar gets this appointment he receives a small extra pay - the appointment pay. Holders of such ranks can be brought back to the rank of Havildar very easily (as these ranks are only appointments).

Ramesh · Post by **Ramesh** » 27 Dec 2008 16:35

Questions for rayc sir,
1. I am a serving soldier. Will posting on BRF get me on the wrong side of DSR?
2. Can I express my opinion on political and military affairs in the country and internationally?

With warm regards,
Ashu

P.S: Any other member from services background who can help, please guide.

ticky · Post by **ticky** » 27 Dec 2008 18:58

AdityaM wrote:A few questions:

1) Why is the "Forum feed temporarily offline" now permanent?
2) While posting, we can either post a URL like ordinary text or embedd it between [ url /] tags. In either case, the rendering of the link is the same! So whats the difference?
3) Earlier links in BR used to open in a new window, which was desirable since we could continue with the BR page. So why does the link now open in the same window ?? This is very annoying.

To add to what Hiten has stated, if your browser supports tabs then Ctrl + left click opens the link in a new tab, at least in firefox & IE 7 anyway

ticky · Post by **ticky** » 27 Dec 2008 19:06

The BR Army site does not have any detailed information about the corp of engineers and signals. can anyone point me in the right direction for some good open source info on them? I have already tried googling, turns out that either i am very bad at it or not much info out there.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 28 Dec 2008 02:03

ticky wrote:
AdityaM wrote:A few questions:
3) Earlier links in BR used to open in a new window, which was desirable since we could continue with the BR page. So why does the link now open in the same window ?? This is very annoying.
To add to what Hiten has stated, if your browser supports tabs then Ctrl + left click opens the link in a new tab, at least in firefox & IE 7 anyway

That is precisely my point!
Since user has to manually trigger a new Tab by pressing the Ctrl button, then why not remove this extra burden & automatically open the link in new window (programmatically (javascript) opening in new tab is not possible)
I am sure that 99.9% of the people open a new window/Tab for links.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 28 Dec 2008 12:29

Ashu wrote:Questions for rayc sir,
1. I am a serving soldier. Will posting on BRF get me on the wrong side of DSR?
2. Can I express my opinion on political and military affairs in the country and internationally?

With warm regards,
Ashu

P.S: Any other member from services background who can help, please guide.

You want me to be Pranab Mukherjee?

Technically, you can't. But as an Indian citizen, you can.

I would recommended that you post facts that is acceptable and does not raise a controversy, more so with political overtones.

You could give your opinion from the current affairs point of view, but in a moderate way without any political overtones.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 28 Dec 2008 12:38

Can you please tell me the reason why there are 2 different camo patterns being worn? For eg. 1st row, the two soldiers on extreme right.

The official issue dress fades and one cannot wait for the life cycle period to get the replacement and so people buy the cloth from commercial sources.

Hence, there is the difference.

ticky · Post by **ticky** » 28 Dec 2008 21:19

That is precisely my point!
Since user has to manually trigger a new Tab by pressing the Ctrl button, then why not remove this extra burden & automatically open the link in new window (programmatically (javascript) opening in new tab is not possible)
I am sure that 99.9% of the people open a new window/Tab for links.

Come on now mate, no great harm done in hitting the Ctrl key a few times or are you trying to give a new meaning to the term "Couch Potato"

Vikramaditya · Post by **Vikramaditya** » 31 Dec 2008 07:13

ticky wrote:
That is precisely my point!
Since user has to manually trigger a new Tab by pressing the Ctrl button, then why not remove this extra burden & automatically open the link in new window (programmatically (javascript) opening in new tab is not possible)
I am sure that 99.9% of the people open a new window/Tab for links.
Come on now mate, no great harm done in hitting the Ctrl key a few times or are you trying to give a new meaning to the term "Couch Potato"

this is not about laziness ..... every single website worth its salt on www follows some un-written rules . Links opening in a new window is one such rule. People have become used to that and its difficult to remember that BRF has a different rule just before clicking a link.

ticky · Post by **ticky** » 31 Dec 2008 12:38

this is not about laziness ..... every single website worth its salt on www follows some un-written rules .

True, but it is not as if those rules are set in stone like the Ten Commandments, it can evolve/change over time.

Links opening in a new window is one such rule.

I think this issue has been discussed before, it had something to do with the new forum S/W. Also, while I do prefer links opening in new window, I have observed in numerous websites the same being not implemented. I guess BR has joined that club.

People have become used to that and its difficult to remember that BRF has a different rule just before clicking a link

That, my friend, is inertia and human nature at work.

Just my 2c

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 31 Dec 2008 18:08

at ^^^
I am not a moderator; just a trainee, in fact....but IMO, this discussion should take place in the "Site Suggestions and feedback" forum. That would be the best place for such queries.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 04 Jan 2009 05:49

A question for all. If you have seen the various IAF bases, most have a single runway as opposed to two that most other countries seem to have. Some bases close to the border have this too. Any particular reason for this?

CalvinH · Post by **CalvinH** » 04 Jan 2009 09:56

Can someone explain the headgear in the image. Saw the latest pics of Israel army getting ready for action. All of them are having this headgear. Is it just a camouflage net over a regular issue helmet.