Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

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Manu
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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Manu » 05 Dec 2008 01:10

Under the current ruling dispensation, it does not seem that the 200 dead in Mumbai will get any justice. I am trying to ensure that atleast the 11 that are still alive do not join them.

It sems the wide-spread sympathy generated by Karkare's death has swayed the judge, finally.
Link

It was a mini victory for the anti-terrorism squad (ATS) as it had failed to get the court's permission to question the accused the first time it produced them before a special MCOCA judge. On Wednesday, special public prosecutor Rohini Salian argued that ATS sleuths had found traces of RDX and ammonium nitrate at the house of another accused Sudhakar Chaturvedi. The ATS suspects that the bombs used in Malegaon may have been assembled at his house.


In response to the allegations, Purohit's lawyer Shrikant Shivade argued that the military command was aware that Purohit had met Chaturvedi. "He is privy to military secrets and cannot disclose them to ATS for fear that they could be leaked to the wrong people,'' Shivade said. He added that Purohit's interrogation would be "detrimental to national security'' and the ATS should ask the southern command of the army for intelligence reports he had submitted as an operative. This would help the ATS officials understand why he had been in touch with the other accused in the case.


The court sent the other accused, including Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur, to judicial custody till December 16.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Manu » 05 Dec 2008 01:12

Link
Mumbai (PTI): The explosives used in Malegaon blast might have been assembled and manufactured at the house of Sudhakar Chaturvedi, one of the arrested accused in the case, Mumbai Anti-Terrorism Squad told a court here on Wednesday.

The ATS has recovered cotton swabs from Chaturvedi's house which after tests were found to have traces of RDX and ammonium nitrate," special public prosecutor Rohini Salian told a MCOCA court.

Another arrested accused Rakesh Dhawde had trained men on weapon training and assembling explosives, the prosecution said while seeking the custody of four accused in the case.

The court, however, granted custody of only Lt Col Srikant Prasad Purohit and Dhawde till December 6.

The ATS had sought the custody of four out of the 11 arrested accused- Ajay Rahirkar, a member of right wing gorup Abhinav Bharat, Dhawde, a firearms expert, Purohit and Chaturvedi.

Rahirkar, Chaturvedi and others including prime accused Sadhvi Pragya SIngh Thakur were remanded to judicial custody till December 16.

The ATS had sought police custody of the four on the grounds that according to the video and audio recordings recovered from co-accused Dayanand Pandey's laptop, Rahirkar had purchased arms from Dhawde at the instance of Purohit.

Salian told the court that wanted accused Ramji Kalsangra had on August 9 and 10 had gone to Pune and visited Purohit's residence.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby ramana » 05 Dec 2008 01:28

Rohini Salian


Is this real name for public prosecutor that too female? Or is it her petname from her brother in law?

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby enqyoob » 05 Dec 2008 03:25

If someone collected all the cotton swaps and "Q-tips" from my garbage, they would find MORE THAN TRACES of ear-wax and the heavy oxidants that they use to clean ear canals. Same compounds used in rocket motors, just a bit diluted that's all. I guess that would tell them that I am developing liquid-propelled missiles? This ATS "evidence" is simply wild.

Why would anyone need to use cotton swabs when making RDX bombs, I wonder. Is the stuff a liquid?

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby sum » 06 Dec 2008 11:38

Link
Plea for probe into ‘Hindutva terror’ rejected

Legal Correspondent

New Delhi: The Supreme Court on Friday rejected at the admission stage itself a writ petition filed by Jamiat Ulama-i-Hind (JUH) Delhi unit president Maulana Arshad Madani for a probe by an independent agency into all acts of “Hindutva terror” from 2001.

A Bench consisting of Chief Justice K.G. Balakrishnan and Justice P. Sathasivam dismissed as withdrawn the petition, saying the prayer could not be granted.

The petition expressed concern over the involvement of Hinduva fundamentalists in the recent bomb blast at Malegaon in Maharashtra and said the investigating agencies were conducting the probe with a closed mind. The petition sought a direction to the Central Bureau of Investigation to expedite the probe into the 2001 Malegaon riots and pleaded that it be monitored by the court.

The petitioner said the state investigating agencies did nothing even after clear evidence emerged of the involvement of Hindutva fundamentalists.

The Chief Justice told Mr. Madani’s counsel: “It is for the state to do what it wants. They [police] are conducting an enquiry and it is being done by a special team. Have you got evidence against any of them [Hindutva groups]? How can you say that investigation is not being conducted properly?

Last point is crucial for all "human rights scum" who keep harping on innocence of all terrorists..

Notice how this verdict didn't get any airtime or print space anywhere.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Manu » 07 Dec 2008 15:04

There were talks of Black Arm Bands...Maybe Burney did not get the Memo....
Link

Hezbollah blames Sunni group for Mumbai attacks
7 Dec 2008, 0326 hrs IST, Himanshi Dhawan, TNN

New Delhi: Lebanon-based Hezbollah has blamed the Mumbai terror attack on the Sunni fundamentalist group Takfiris. In a statement which can raise eyebrows because of Hezbollah's unrelenting hostility to Israel, the Hezbollah said that the group which carried out the Mumbai strikes was of Takfiri ideological lineage.

Takfiris are ultra-fundamentalist Sunnis who view the non-Muslim world as a battleground and all non-Muslims as infidels. The statement issued by Sayyid Nawwaf al-Musawi, the international relations head of Hezbollah, is significant because it comes at a time when huge sections in Pakistan continue to deny any link of the notorious Sunni fundamentalist Lashkar to Mumbai attack, and have even blamed the crime on a wider conspiracy involving Hindus, Americans and Israelis.

Hezbollah represents Shias who have been at the receiving end of the brutality of Sunni fundamentalists groups including — al-Qaida, Lashkar-e-Taiba, Jaish-e-Mohammed and Sipahe Sahaba and Afghanistan-based Taliban.

Takfiris condone acts of violence as legitimate methods of achieving religious or political goals and do not accept any deviation from Islam in the strictest sense. According to them, Shias have deviated from the teachings of Islam, thus justifying the use of violence against them.

While Islam forbids suicide, Takfiris believe that those who deliberately kill themselves while attempting to kill enemies of Islam are (shahid) who go straight to heaven. As such, all sin is absolved when a person is martyred, allowing carte blanche for the indiscriminate killing of even non-combatants.

The Hezbollah statement comes when a section of even the Urdu press in India seems to be coming around to suspect that the carnage was a conspiracy by Sangh Parivar to thwart the Malegaon probe into the "Hindutva terror" by eliminating Hemant Karkare of Maharashtra ATS. Karkare was leading the probe into the alleged involvement of Hindutva radicals in the Malegaon blast of September 29.

Group editor of Urdu daily 'Roznama Rashtriya Sahara', Aziz Burney, in his edit piece recently said that Hemant Karkare, encounter specialist Vijay Salaskar and additional commissioner of police Ashok Kamte were killed under suspicious circumstances. Speaking to TOI, Burney claimed that the attacks were part of a larger conspiracy hatched in connivance with the Congress government, Leader of Opposition L K Advani, Mossad and Chotta Rajan to disable the Malegaon investigations. He also names Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi and BJP president Rajnath Singh as involved in the conspiracy.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Manu » 07 Dec 2008 15:09

Link
No evidence linking us to Malegaon blast: Purohit, Rahirkar

Mumbai, Dec 6 (PTI) Terming the invocation of MCOCA against them as "inappropriate", Lt Col Prasad Purohit and Abhinav Bharat treasurer Ajay Rahirkar, both accused in the September 29 Malegaon blast case, today moved the special MCOCA court seeking bail.

Purohit and Rahirkar in their bail applications claimed that the investigating agency, Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS), had no evidence linking them to the blast and that they have nothing to do with the case.

Special MCOCA Judge Y D Shinde directed the prosecution to file its reply on the application by December 16.

Meanwhile, Purohit and another accused Rakesh Dhawade, whose police custody ended today, were remanded to judicial custody till December 16 along with eight other accused, including Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur.

The ATS in its remand application sought judicial custody of Purohit and Dhawade stating that they would seek police custody of the two if required later.

The court also granted Purohit permission to undergo an MRI scan at a private hospital as it found the state-run J J Hospital's refusal to do the same claiming it might dislocate his knee permanently, as pointless.

Earlier, the court had directed J J Hospital to conduct an MRI scan on Purohit's knee which had been injured when he was in the army. PTI

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Manu » 07 Dec 2008 15:15

Looks like Sahil Online (another Newspaper of the Faithful) published from:
SahilOnline
First Floor, Jamaat Complex, Next to KSRTC Bus Stand, Bhatkal (Uttara Kannada), Karnataka, India.
Tel: +91 8385 320768
Cell: + 91 988 6363 666
Fax: +91 8385 223252

....did not get the black arm bands memo either...

Not posting in full:
Link
Terror attack planned by RSS and allies?
This terror attack in our analysis has been planned & orchestrated by the Sangh Pariwar and its allies within the security apparatus to counter the investigation of the ATS led by Hemant Karkare, so as to nullify and divert attention from the true face of BJP-RSS Parivar's involvement in fermenting terror attacks in the country.

The cousin sister of Hemant Karkare as well the mother of Salaskar have appeared on TV and have expressed strong doubts about the deaths of their loved ones and have strongly hinted at other possibilities. It was also reported that when the death of Karkare was announced, the RSS members rejoiced and celebrated.

We thus demand a judicial inquiry to look into the deaths of the three courageous ATS officers whose deaths are a blow to the morale of the entire police force. The feeling that Karkare and his comrades were the prime victims of this plot is now widespread amongst the people and is matter of serious popular discussion and a number of TV channels are discussing this possibility.

Let it be made clear that neither the Deccan nor the "Indian Mujahedeen" exist. The Indian Mujahedeen is a creation & the front organization of the Indian security apparatus.

In our estimation, the MOSSAD and the CIA have aided and abetted the BJP-RSS in the planning and execution of this terror attack.
The terrorists were also given targets which included nationals of the US , UK and Israel as an added incentive. In one such announcement the terrorist spokesperson announced that they were here in Mumbai as part of their battle against the Jewish people and the faith of Judaism. Thus the Nariman House building in Colaba, that unknown to most is inhabited by Israeli-Jewish families was also attacked and hostages taken. This incident will only serve to cement ties between the Zionist elites of Israel and the Brahmanical elites of India.

The fact of the matter is that there exists a strong ideological bonding between Zionism & Brahmanism. Both are committed to racial, religious & caste superiority. Both also have a history of collaboration with Imperialism and the exploitation of their people.


These are Indian Citizens, BTW......

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Chandragupta » 07 Dec 2008 15:33

Why blame these illiterate mullahs?

Hi, btw, my first post. :D

Back to the point. We created these radicals, this is what happens when you feed a snake, it will turn against you & spit venom on the same hand that fed it. While I hope that the majority of the Indian muslims are not in agreement with these clowns, but surely, these clowns do have an influence of certain sections of the IM. Indian government has always believed in letting muslims live in their shell, wherein they could become more & more islamic, since that allowed the GoI to pat themselves on the back infront of the ME & Pakistan, that see how free our Muslims are to practice their faith. This has backfired tremendously.

People like these should be shot in the middle of the street. Not just Muslims, but anyone who sptis venom against the country & makes divisive statements as such. These mullahs who issue fatwas against anything & everything, should be dealt with an iron fist. If we don't rescue the IMs from gallows of radical Islam, then it'd be too late.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby brihaspati » 07 Dec 2008 17:58

when a section of even the Urdu press in India seems to be coming around to suspect that the carnage was a conspiracy by Sangh Parivar to thwart the Malegaon probe into the "Hindutva terror" by eliminating Hemant Karkare of Maharashtra ATS. Karkare was leading the probe into the alleged involvement of Hindutva radicals in the Malegaon blast of September 29.

What about arranging it so, that these officers who might later on blurt out about the "political pressure" on them to find "Hindutva" guilty as a sop to Islam and 2009 votes - to be eliminated once the political propaganda objective of "smearing Hindutva" was achieved?

Hezbollah reaction is a prompting from Iran. Iran's economic interests and long term strategic interests is best served at the moment by keeping India on its side. It is also about putting up at least one fron within Islam, at least one sect which should not be seen as a general part of Islamic agenda and hence if the remainder are targeted Islam still has a chance to survive. The psychological disruption of major non-Muslim populations of the world and the upcoming generations coming up completely unsympathetic and therefore not preventing annihilation by determined non-Muslims is now almost inevitable.From now on Islam will have to be on the defensive. And the Mumbai blasts will turn out in the future to be the real turning point in the history of Islam - when its decline starts, as the huge Indian non-Muslim population finally comes out of the shadow of regime dependent historiography and propaganda.

Hezbollah also fears increased Israeli cooperation with India, and future cooling of India to the Palestine and Lebanon cause.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby sum » 07 Dec 2008 18:05

In our estimation, the MOSSAD and the CIA have aided and abetted the BJP-RSS in the planning and execution of this terror attack.
The terrorists were also given targets which included nationals of the US , UK and Israel as an added incentive. In one such announcement the terrorist spokesperson announced that they were here in Mumbai as part of their battle against the Jewish people and the faith of Judaism. Thus the Nariman House building in Colaba, that unknown to most is inhabited by Israeli-Jewish families was also attacked and hostages taken. This incident will only serve to cement ties between the Zionist elites of Israel and the Brahmanical elites of India.

And we laugh on the Paki media for their retardness? :roll: :roll:

How is it that none of these anti-national scum are ever brought to light by our "patriotic" media outlets like NDTV, CNN-IBN etc?

If any hindu org had written such stuff about the muslims, i cant imagine the hungama which would have brken out in these channels!!! IMO, Bhatkal seems to be a very scary place and needs a real cleanup of the pseudo-Pakis residing there. The below report is a scary reminder which has been supressed by our seculars to maintain "harmony":

Link

Government taking steps to strengthen coastal security

K.V. Subramanya

CHICKBALLAPUR: In view of the investigations revealing that the terrorists who carried out the recent attacks in Mumbai had taken the sea route to reach that city, the Karnataka Government is taking steps to strengthen the coastal security in the State.

The report of a judicial commission submitted to the then State Government almost a decade ago pointed to a sea route used by terrorists to smuggle explosives from Pakistan to Karnataka. No action was taken on the report. The Justice Kedambadi Jagannath Shetty Commission, which inquired into the communal violence that took place in the coastal town of Bhatkal in Uttara Kannada district in 1993, mentions in its report of a confidential intelligence note on the Bhatkal shores being used for smuggling explosives from Pakistan.

After the then Uttara Kannada Deputy Commissioner deposed before the Commission that he and the district Superintendent of Police had received a note from the State Intelligence in 1993 stating that an RDX consignment was being smuggled into Bhatkal, Mr. Shetty, a former High Court judge, had asked him to produce the said letter before the commission.

The confidential note from the State Intelligence mentioned that a consignment of RDX was being smuggled from Khorkan in Pakistan to Bhatkal in a fishing vessel, Al-Shaheen.

But, till now the security agencies are not aware of what happened to the RDX consignment.
No action

Although the commission in its over 1,000-page report provided details of how Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) through its secret agents was carrying out disruptive activities in Bhatkal and had suggested certain security measures in the wake of it, successive Governments have not taken any action.

The commission, in its report, submitted to the Government in 1997, had recommended to the Government to constitute a special intelligence wing to tackle communal violence; declare Bhatkal as “trouble-prone communally hyper-sensitive area” and set up an autonomous community relations council accountable only to the legislature, to ensure communal harmony.

Ironically, the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) that had created a ruckus in the Legislative Assembly on several occasions in the past urging the then Governments to make public the details of the report and implement its recommendations, has now remained silent :roll: even though its own Government has been in the office for the past six months.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby kvraghav » 08 Dec 2008 16:07

It is we who have to blamed.The other day i found people from minority community protesting.The palcards...apart from condemning attacks had were praising only hemanth karkare.A great soldier nevertheless but..there were also many othes...Unni krishnan was from the same state rather...This is the level of division we have got ourself into..

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby sum » 08 Dec 2008 21:22

kvraghav wrote:It is we who have to blamed.The other day i found people from minority community protesting.The palcards...apart from condemning attacks had were praising only hemanth karkare.A great soldier nevertheless but..there were also many othes...Unni krishnan was from the same state rather...This is the level of division we have got ourself into..

Kindly give credit where its due...to the Kangress.

The common man is not so great to have achieved all that the Kangress(abely aided by the "secular" media) achieved in the last 5-6 months.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Avinash R » 12 Dec 2008 12:47

AK Antony in Rajya Sabha
Thursday, December 11, 2008
http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=45516

The ongoing investigation by the Anti Terrorist Squad (ATS) of Mumbai Police into the Malegaon blast case has so far not established the involvement of any other serving army officer in this case.

This information was given by Defence Minister Shri AK Antony in a written reply to Shri RC Singh in Rajya Sabha today.

No alleged infiltration of Hindutva elements into the army has been established by the investigation so far, he added.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Rahul M » 14 Dec 2008 23:25

was this posted earlier ?

http://indiamahesh.wordpress.com/2008/1 ... /#more-123
Double Standards
Posted in Articles by indiamahesh on December 3rd, 2008

When Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur was arrested for her alleged involvement in the Malegaon blasts case, my inbox was bombarded with tons of email which promised ‘evidence’ in this regard. The people who mailed me were of course, the ones who sympathized with the ‘Mujahids’ a. k. a. ‘freedom fighters’ – better known as ‘Jehadis’.

Without trashing those mails outright, I managed to patiently go through them in detail. Interestingly, apart from the abuses against the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), Rastriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), Hindu Jagaran Manch (HJM), and others, they contained hardly anything else. The contents were certainly not able to prove the Sadhvi ‘guilty’.

The Sadhvi’s case is still in a court of law and until then it should be understood that she is only an accused and/or suspect and NOT a ‘culprit’ as some are trying to portray her as. In staunch contrast against the Sadhvi episode is the terror attack on Mumbai’s Taj Mahal Hotel. I wish to consider in this regard the column by M J Akbar, entitled ‘Mumbai Attacks’.

“A good section of Mumbai’s underworld today consists of Muslims who entered it because they were denied a place in the ‘white economy’,” you will find him saying in the column. Further on he adds, “Terrorists may have a religion but death has none. In the first list of dead issued by JJ Hospital, the name next to Karkare was that of Mastan Qureshi. There were six Hindus, four Muslims, and two foreigners, presumably Christians on that list.” He also states “India is a tough nation. No one should have illusions about that. It has fought Muslim terrorists in Kashmir, Sikh terrorists in Punjab, Christian terrorists in Nagaland, and Hindu terrorists in Assam…”

Reading this, I wonder what is one to make of it? It is evident to me now that all the terror-sympathizing intellectuals in this country are not at all sad about the evil deeds committed by people of their faith. They don’t want to apologize—come what may. Instead, they are keen on justifying their acts of violence! Any person who dares to disagree with this statement will find himself in a soup as was evident in the double standards displayed by the terror-sympathizers in the mainline media over the Sadhvi issue.

When the Sadhvi was arrested, they portrayed the whole episode in such a way as to tell the Hindus ‘look… look… your people too are no different’. They wanted the Hindus to put their heads down as they hurled their abuses and justified the acts of violence by the Mujahids.

Perhaps distinguished intellectuals like my friend MJ Akbar fail to understand the fact that when Sikh terrorists were rampant, the majority of Sikhs never sympathized with them. Similarly, Hindus and Christians in other parts of the country have no sympathy for the terrorists in Assam and Nagaland, respectively. MJ is completely wrong when he was recently found stating in a summit that ‘No other Muslim from India, other than Kashmir, sympathizes with the Kashmiri separatists.’ If only he goes into more detail will he realize that there are enough and more of Madrassas with Muslims sympathizing with Kashmiris. Even Mangalore, the place from where I am currently writing this column, in the southern most part of the country and miles away from Kashmir, is not spared!

The crux of the matter is that Muslims are in sympathy with the terrorists—if not all, a majority of them. If I am wrong, why don’t we find enough Muslims to take a definite and hard stance against those Jihadists? The Darul-Uloom of Deoband, the ‘great’ Islamic seminary which recently promised of a ‘fatwa’ on terrorism, which was greatly publicized by some sections of the media, is yet to materialize. No one dares to question those in the seminary as to why haven’t they till date issued a fatwa on any of the terrorists? It’s a different that Darul-Uloom is by itself a fanatic-manufacturing centre which also happened to inspire the Taliban regime in Afghanistan.

The Muslims are today looked at with a great amount of disbelief. It’s certainly not a healthy sign. But who is to be blamed for this? Hindus, Christians, Buddhists? Who, in particular, would they like to blame? They have but themselves to blame for the very fact that they have leased their brains out to their fanatic clergy and intellectuals who have always thrived on their troubles.

Intellectuals like MJ, who by blaming people of other faiths and governance can seldom gain anything but more skepticism for Muslims. They have a greater responsibility on their shoulders with all the charisma and respect they possess. They make themselves liable to scrutiny when they seek ‘compassion’ for terrorists and ‘criticism’ for people like the Sadhvi.

Terror is certainly not the way out. Be it for Hindus or for Muslims, or any other faith. We need to equivocally disown it, in all forms. There can be no peace if we hand a gun to a deprived child. We cannot call ourselves wise if we give two different sentences to people of two different faiths.

Muslims are not in the clutches of an ‘inferiority complex’ as MJ was quoted saying at the Jamat-e-Islami meeting in Hyderabad. They have in them a ‘superiority complex’, for they believe they are ‘Allah’s chosen ones’, again – if not all, then most. This has to stop. They have to come to terms with modernity, as people of other faiths have done. And distinguished people like MJ have a moral responsibility to play a pivotal role in this regard. But sadly, it seems they want to continuously thrive on the pathetic situation of their own people. By sympathizing with secessionists, separatists, and terrorists, they are helping themselves lose their case.


the author is a co-contributor to MJ Akbar's blog along with seema mustafa. :eek:

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby shiv » 18 Dec 2008 08:15

Folks - I wrote the following message 3 weeks before the Mumbai attacks in the FIRST post of this thread

Now we have 160 plus people dead - children not even having time to come to terms with deaths of their parents and we have this infuriating crap (posted at bottom) being spoken by Abdul Rehman Antulay, the Congress party's minister for minorities. And we put up with this sh!t in the name of secularism?

This sort of stuff makes me really angry. I have spent many decades of my life being more secular and accommodating that anyone can imagine. But nothing is enough. My people are always at fault and the words used by Pakistan and being forced down my throat as though I bear responsibility for heinous crimes.

Antulay and his supporters need to be weeded out of the system - but more than that - this egregious thought process needs to go.



shiv wrote:
Every time there is a terrorist attack in India and we have many of those, those of us who belong to the majority community (that is a euphemism for Hindu) are told that the attack is the fault of Hindus because they are such bigoted dogs. naturally there has to be a blowback for Gujarat, Babri Masjid, raping Kashmiris, burning Muslims. You name it - it is the fault of the Hindus. And if a terrorist is shot -"Muslims are victims!" "Fake encounter death!"

< snip >

This is no way to run a goddam country..


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 852273.cms


Antulay raises doubts over Karkare's killing

17 Dec 2008, 1916 hrs IST, PTI


NEW DELHI: Union minority affairs minister A R Antulay set off a major controversy on Wednesday when he raised doubts over the killing of
Maharashtra ATS chief Hemant Karkare by Pakistani terrorists, suggesting a link with the Malegaon blasts that were investigated by him. ( Watch )

Opposition parties were quick to attack the minister for his "misdemeanour" and demanded immediate clarification from the prime minister but the Congress party distanced itself saying they were his "personal remarks".

BJP and Shiv Sena members raked up the issue in Lok Sabha and demanded home minister P Chidambaram, who had moved two anti-terror bills, to clarify the situation.

Maintaining that "there is more than what meets the eyes", Antulay said Karkare was investigating some cases in which "there are non-Muslims also", an apparent reference to the Malegaon blasts case in which sadhvi Pragya Thakur and a Lt-Colonel Shrikant Prasad Purohit were among the 11 persons to be arrested.

"Unfortunately his end came. It may be a separate inquiry how his (Karkare's) end came," he told reporters outside Parliament.

Antulay said "Karkare found that there are non-Muslims involved in the acts of terrorism during his investigations in some cases. Any person going to the roots of terror has always been the target, he said.

"Superficially speaking they (terrorists) had no reason to kill Karkare. Whether he (Karkare) was victim of terrorism or terrorism plus something. I do not know," he added.

When he came under attack in Lok Sabha on the issue, Antulay sought to wriggle out saying he had not talked about who killed Karkare but about "who sent him in the direction" of Cama hospital, outside which he was killed.

"Who had sent them to Cama hospital (a lane opposite which he and two other officers were killed by Pakistani terrorists on Nov 26). What were they told that made them leave for the same spot in the same vehicle.

"I repeat what I had said. I had not said who had killed them but only questioned who had sent them there (Cama Hospital) in that direction," he said in Lok Sabha where BJP and Shiv Sena members attacked him for his remarks.

Anant Geete of Shiv Sena accused him of "misleading" the house and sought Chidambaram's clarification.

Earlier in the day, describing Hemant Karkare as a very bold officer having great acumen and vision, Antulay asked "How come instead of going to Hotel Taj or Oberai or even the Nariman House, he went to such a place where there was nothing compared to what happened in the three places?"

"Why all the three (Hemant Karakre, Vijay Salaskar and Ashok Kamte) went together. It is beyond my comprehension," the minister said.

The minister's remarks came under immediate attack from BJP which asked the prime minister to clarify whether his remarks are an "individual misdemeanour or the collective wisdom of the Cabinet".

"The remarks are obnoxious and deserves a clarification from the prime minister," BJP spokesman Rajiv Pratap Rudy told reporters.

Reacting to Antulay's remarks, Congress spokesman Abhishek Manu Singhvi they should be treated his "personal views" and Congress party does not agree with them and does not support such a formulation.

To a question, he said there was no question of embarrassment to the party.

Samajwadi Party MP Amar Singh, who himself was in the centre of a controversy when he had raised doubts over the killing of a Delhi police official in an encounter recently, said a senior leader like Antulay should before issuing any statement uphold the cherished tradition of collective wisdom of the cabinet.

Not completely disapproving the remarks, Union minister Ram Vilas Paswan said Antulay must be having "more information" since he hails from Maharashtra.

The issue came up when the house was discussing two bills brought in by the government to tackle terror against the backdrop of Mumbai terror attacks.

Geete said the prime minister and several senior union ministers have gone on record to say that Karkare was killed by terrorists.

Not satisfied with Antulay's reply, Geete charged the union minister with "misleading" the house, which he "did not "expect".

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby sum » 18 Dec 2008 20:03

This sort of stuff makes me really angry. I have spent many decades of my life being more secular and accommodating that anyone can imagine. But nothing is enough. My people are always at fault and the words used by Pakistan and being forced down my throat as though I bear responsibility for heinous crimes.

Antulay and his supporters need to be weeded out of the system - but more than that - this egregious thought process needs to go.

More sad than that is every Muslim name in the comments section of any place where the A.R.Antulay article has been put up supports the senile #@$%^. Its really sad when nearly 15% of the population is putting religion above country. :(

With such a huge mass of fifth-columnists( assuming that even 1-2%(and thats being conservative) of the IMs are sympathetic to all this jihad) , we are in for a hell of a time in the future.

Such blatant anti-nationalism by a huge section of a "community" raises the hackles of the ordinary man and if he tries saying anything about it, he is heckled at by his own govt by being termed "communal" and "Hindu-terrorist"!!!!
A true pressure cooker situation is developing, the result of which is too terrible to imagine... :cry:

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby vsudhir » 19 Dec 2008 07:23

Aha. A posse of interest8ng headlines from IE today.

Antulay offers to resign but not retract

IOW, he sticks to his ridiculuous story that will feed the frenzied delusions and toxic accusations of every manner of pimtellectual, pseudo-liberal, closet jihadi and paki-BD in the world based on the statements of a union minister in Dilli. That is precisely what Antulay intends by not retracting his BS and allowing it to become part of ‘record’.

Meanwhile, Muscova is jumping into the fray as well
Dawood network financed Mumbai terror: Moscow

Wow. And make no mistake, obvious as it sounds to us nationalists, this is something that needs to be repeated at every occasion coz GoI is hell-bent on burying further investigations into the *local support network* of the 26/11 turds. There’s no doubt local elements involved can and will expose local (and perhaps national) netas if caught.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Muppalla » 19 Dec 2008 07:33

The whole Antulay thing is a ploy by the INC to bring Malegaon back to limelight so that its Muslim votebank is kept in best humor. I bet Antulay did not do on his own as he is not a leader or not even in a position to win even a village panchayat election. In the aftermath of Mumbai terror, Malegaon is getting forgotten and it is very important to not to forget.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby shaardula » 19 Dec 2008 08:19

deleted.
Last edited by archan on 20 Dec 2008 19:05, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: deleted as per user's own request.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby shaardula » 19 Dec 2008 08:53

given what shiv and sum have written and given statements such as:

I, like many who are interested in social justice, believes that Teesta & Arundhati Roy (in their on different ways) contributed a lot to the cause of fighting injustice, and brought a lot of self-confidence and trust among the justice denied people in India, especially minorities and backward.


we need to really carefully dissect this grief that is being manufactured.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby enqyoob » 20 Dec 2008 06:49

If I might ask the indulgence of the rantors here and request that they read and collate some facts:

Cross-posted from media-psyops thread:
More truth coming out....

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/sc-af ... im/399007/
Quote:
SC affidavit wrong, didn’t know what we signed: riot victim
Posted: Dec 16, 2008 at 0205 hrs IST

AYESHA KHAN & VIKRAM RAUTELA
AHMEDABAD: In her new home in a narrow bylane of Ahmedabad, Madina Pathan (25) has no idea she has kicked up a storm with her deposition before the Supreme Court-appointed Special Investigation Team (SIT) probing the 2002 Gujarat riot cases.

While an affidavit in the Supreme Court stated that Madina, then a young bride, was raped and stabbed by rioters at her late husband’s house in Naroda Gam, she has told the SIT she was stabbed but never raped. She said she had no idea what was written in that affidavit since it was in English which she could neither read, write or understand.

“In those days, some people used to come and question me. There used to be a Nanu Miyan, I would go to him with the other victims,” Madina told The Indian Express. Nanu Miyan Malek, a Naroda Gam survivor on whose affidavit the Supreme Court appointed the SIT to probe some of the riot cases, says Madina is not lying. “Madina was stabbed in the stomach but no one raped her. She stayed with us in a relief camp for nearly six months,” Malek said.

Malek said the affidavit was “fabricated” and had “incorrect” information. He alleged it was drafted in English without his knowledge by Rais Khan, coordinator of the Citizens for Justice and Peace (CJP), who made him sign on the affidavit. “I had mentioned this in my statement to the SIT too,” he said.

But Rais Khan claims it was CJP secretary Teesta Setalvad who sent him affidavits for signatures. “Teesta Setalvad used to send me these affidavits through e-mail. I used to take printouts and get them signed after calling the persons concerned to Shahpur. All these affidavits were drafted by Setalvad along with some legal experts,” Khan said. When contacted, Setalvad declined comment.
According to Malek’s eight-page affidavit, Madina, then the newly married daughter-in-law of his neighbour, was attacked and raped by a Hindu rioter. The affidavit was appended to a petition which the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) and CJP had jointly moved before the Supreme Court in 2003, seeking a CBI inquiry into the riot cases on the grounds that the Gujarat police was trying to scuttle investigations into these cases.

Madina’s husband, mother-in-law and two brothers-in-law were killed in the attack. She later married one Rafik who now works in Saudi Arabia. She has a three-year-old daughter.

Madina deposed before the SIT on May 20 this year, stating she was never raped. “Jab Gandhinagar ke bade saab ne poochha tab mujhe pata pada ki pehle court mein aisa likha hai. Mera to kabhi balatkar nahin hua tha (I realised that this was written in the court paper only after the official in Gandhinagar (SIT) asked me. I was never raped).”

She says she received Rs five lakh in compensation which she deposited in a bank. In her statement to the SIT, she said she never identified any of the attackers, neither had she said so in any statement anywhere.


Now here is my take on the above:

See, this is exactly what happened in the notorious "Best Bakery" trial. The 19-year old "Prime Witness" Zaheera Shaikh complained repeatedly that Teesta Setalwad had stuck affidavits in English under her nose when she was obviously in a traumatized condition. It was on the basis of these fraudulent "affidavits" that the police arrested several innocents who just happened to be Hindu neighbors of the Best Bakery, who TRIED TO HELP the victims in a senseless riot.

So when the case came up and Ms. Shaikh was asked to testify, she of course told the court that the "accused" were the people who had saved her life.

Result: the "authorities" kept hounding Ms. Shaikh. The poor girl then complained that Setalwad and her gang had "kidnapped" her to try and bully her into going with their fraud.

In the end, the Supreme Court to their eternal shame, believed Setalwad because her uncle or whoever used to be a big-time lawyer before the SC, and put the poor Zaheera in jail for a year for perjury.

Now we see confirmation that Teesta Setalwad has been in the habit of getting false affidavits signed by illiterate crime victims, all to foment further hatred and more riots. Why is this person so above the law in India? How come there arent' smart enough lawyers to end that exalted status and get her prosecuted?

This is also the person who has been selling t-shirts imprinted with the "aman.gif" Pakistani map of "South Asia", which is a non-bailable offence under Indian law. How come?

Aren't there any smart lawyers / investigative reporters in Mumbai/ Maharashtra who can take this and run with it?

See reports (dominated by dorks since the "nationalist patriots" don't exert themselves to do anything other than ranting)

Perjury earns Best Bakery's key witness Zaheera Sheikh jail term

Zaheera Shaikh pleads not guilty to perjury

Zaheera tendered affidavit under Teesta's custody'

Zahira Sheikh accuses Teesta Setalvad, NHRC

Zaheera seeks probe into Teesta Setalvad's bank accounts

The strange case of Zahira & Teesta

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby enqyoob » 20 Dec 2008 07:09

Good- I c that I am not alone


Why is so vociferous Teesta Setalvad so silent?
Silence is not gold; it conveys everything
By Amba Vasishth

This is what the Indian Express reported on December 17, 2008.

SC affidavit wrong, didn’t know what we signed: riot victim

AYESHA KHAN & VIKRAM RAUTELA

AHMEDABAD,
December 16, 2008
Nanu Miyan disowns own affidavit, says it was CJP’s doing, Setalvad says no comment

I N HER new home in a narrow bylane of Ahmedabad, Madina Pathan (25) has no idea she has kicked up a storm with her deposition before the Supreme Court-appointed Special Investigation Team (SIT) probing the 2002 Gujarat riot cases.

While an affidavit in the Supreme Court stated that Madina, then a young bride, was raped and stabbed by rioters at her late husband’s house in Naroda Gam, she has told the SIT she was stabbed but never raped. She said she had no idea what was written in that affidavit since it was in English which she could neither read, write or understand.

“In those days, some people used to come and question me. There used to be a Nanu Miyan, I would go to him with the other victims,” Madina told The Indian Express. Nanu Miyan Malek, a Naroda Gam survivor on whose affidavit the Supreme Court appointed the SIT to probe some of the riot cases, says Madina is not lying. “Madina was stabbed in the stomach but no one raped her. She stayed with us in a relief camp for nearly six months,” Malek said.

Malek said the affidavit was “fabricated” and had “incorrect” information. He alleged it was drafted in English without his knowledge by Rais Khan, coordinator of the Citizens for Justice and Peace (CJP), who made him sign on the affidavit. “I had mentioned this in my statement to the SIT too,” he said.
But Rais Khan claims it was CJP secretary Teesta Setalvad who sent him affidavits for signatures. “Teesta Setalvad used to send me these affidavits through e-mail. I used to take printouts and get them signed after calling the persons concerned to Shahpur. All these affidavits were drafted by Setalvad along with some legal experts,” Khan said. When contacted, Setalvad declined comment. According to Malek’s eight-page affidavit, Madina, then the newly married daughter-in-law of his neighbour, was attacked and raped by a Hindu rioter. The affidavit was appended to a petition which the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) and CJP had jointly moved before the Supreme Court in 2003, seeking a CBI inquiry into the riot cases on the grounds that the Gujarat police was trying to scuttle investigations into these cases.
Madina’s husband, mother-in-law and two brothers-in-law were killed in the attack. She later married one Rafik who now works in Saudi Arabia.

She has a three-year-old daughter.
Madina deposed before the SIT on May 20 this year, stating she was never raped. “Jab Gandhinagar ke bade saab ne poochha tab mujhe pata pada ki pehle court mein aisa likha hai. Mera to kabhi balatkar nahin hua tha (I realised that this was written in the court paper only after the official in Gandhinagar (SIT) asked me. I was never raped).” She says she received Rs five lakh in compensation which she deposited in a bank. In her statement to the SIT, she said she never identified any of the attackers, neither had she said so in any statement anywhere.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The veteran protector of human rights and champion of the oppressed and the aggrieved, Teesta Setalvad, has chosen to be silent: "No comment". Why no comment? Why is the veteran jurist trying to mark time to tell the truth? Truth has not to be invented; it has not to be prompted; it is spontaneous, there and then. One doesn't need time to tell the truth. The truth is in the mind and heart. Why seek time to bare one's heart?



What does it all mean? Her silence is not gold. It is as black as the kettle. The silence conveys a vociferous message, as vociferous as she is in her writings and statements.



Is it not the time that there is an independent and impartial inquiry into the working of the so-called human rights organisations which are receiving funds from foreign countries to help and aid the criminals, anti-socials and anti-national elements in the guise of protecting their human rights?



Do the common, innocent citizens who are killed by these anti-social, anti-national and terrorist elements have no human rights? What have these 'human rights' organisations done to promote and protect the human rights of these innocent victims? They have helped the criminals but they have never helped the innocent victims. If they have, I challenge them to make it public.



Let the nation ponder and decide. **


To which someone commented:
These self appointed (deleted)ssholes like Teesta are worst than terrorists. At least terrorists come from other countries unlike wretches like Teesta who shame the country that gave them this life. She and her husband Javed are known India baiters.

Don't forget that In November 2004, she was accused of pressuring Zaheera Sheikh, the key witness in the Best Bakery case, to make communal statements, leading to the unprecedented transferral of the case outside Gujarat.

Also recall that Teesta and Javed's publication, Communalism Combat, requested and received funds from the Congress Party, the Communist Party of India (Marxist) and the Communist Party of India and ten individuals to run advertisements in national dailies attacking the Bharatiya Janata Party, before the 1999 Lok Sabha elections. The total budget for this campaign was 1.5 crore rupees.



Like I have been saying, the whole Malegaon circus looks more and more like the "Sabrang / FOIL report".

it would be so :rotfl: :rotfl: if it weren't resulting in the torture of soldiers and ascetics.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby BajKhedawal » 20 Dec 2008 10:57

@ Narayan ^^^^^^ Pioneer reporting more on the same:

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?p=588589#p588589


Kudos to H Jhaveri for using his citizenship rights

The information has been gleaned through a string of petitions under the Right to Information Act by one H Jhaveri from various agencies, including banks.

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Hindus don’t have monopoly on the nation: RSS

Postby joshvajohn » 24 Dec 2008 22:16

Though this might not be connected to this thread... I think RSS with such people is in the right direction if they really mean it. This guy is worth of even leading this country as a political leader! Indian secularism needs a different definition I suppose...


Hindus don’t have monopoly on the nation: RSS
Agencies Posted: Dec 24, 2008 at 1531 hrs IST
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/hindu ... ss/402456/
Related Stories: 'US pilot refuses to fly with Sikhs onboard'Diwali on campus in the capitalAyodhya temple construction in '06: VHPSri Ram Sena activists attack SP office in DelhiSister Alphonsa is now India's first woman saint
Shillong: Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) on Wednesday called for unity among the different communities of the nation.

"The diversity of communities of the nation calls upon its people to realise the unity. Efforts should be made to root out the conflicts existing among the communities," RSS general secretary Mohanji Bhagwat said.

Stating that the word ‘Hindu’ is being 'misunderstood' and 'misinterpreted', Bhagwat said, “Hindu community is not the only community that has monopoly on the nation's culture.”

He said the people of the nation should recognise the glorious culture and tradition of the country.

RSS, he said, has been backing every effort intended to protect one's identity.

He called upon the people to respect every individual and every society.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby vsudhir » 25 Dec 2008 19:46

24Dec'08 editorial in Assam's Sentinel newspaper

The Antulay Disease

That AR Antulay’s is a disease cannot be gainsaid. The Union Minority Affairs Minister is keeping his defiance of good advice and has rejected Opposition charges that his insolent statement on the Mumbai ATS chief Hemant Karkare’s killing has weakened India’s position on the Mumbai terror attack in relation to Pakistan. ‘‘I knew I was right when I made the statement. I gave the statement because it was right. Antulay never gave a wrong statement,’’ he told reporters on Monday. It reflects on at least two symptoms of the disease we are harping on: 1) arrogance, because without being arrogant the likes of Antulay cannot afford to survive in politics when they know they are wrong but the very nature of politics, which is ‘secular’, empowers them to colour it all as truth, and 2) an ostensibly high moral ground that provides the Antulay kind of political species with scope to divert public attention from the issues of the day to the expediently chosen, politically motivated discourses. And there is a defence mechanism too when they know that the people have already seen through their calculated politics. That is why Antulay now says it is the media that has twisted his statement and it ‘‘gave Pakistan a chance’’.

Since the disease is chronic and a direct threat to the integrity of the nation, but is actually welcomed by the ilk of Antulay who would prefer a state of sickness (which they glorify as ‘secularism’) to sanity because that is how a communal constituency can be consolidated in abnormal times, one wonders whether there is a deliberate ploy to weaken the fundamentals of the idea called India or whether such politicians have already sold themselves to hostile foreign powers! Sounds scandalous? It should not. For, by linking Karkare’s killing to ‘‘someone’’ who wanted him killed, has not Antulay worded Pakistan’s voice? Has not he contributed to what the ISI would contend? And does he rather not sound like an India-baiting Pakistani leader? So what is Antony [sic]doing in the Union Cabinet of India?


Wow. hard hitting words for a mainstream newspaper. The 'Antony' in the last line was a typo, should've been Antulay onlee.

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Re: Hindus don’t have monopoly on the nation: RSS

Postby shiv » 25 Dec 2008 20:23

joshvajohn wrote:Though this might not be connected to this thread... I think RSS with such people is in the right direction if they really mean it. This guy is worth of even leading this country as a political leader! Indian secularism needs a different definition I suppose...


Hindus don’t have monopoly on the nation: RSS


You know Joshvajohn, there is a completely different way of looking at this exact statement and it is perfectly accommodating and secular.

The name "Hindu" was given to the people of India. all people - not just Shiva or Vishnu worshippers. the god that people worshipped had nothing to do with the name Hindu.

For that reason India belongs to all Indians, without any reference to the god they worship. And all these Indians were called "Hindu" without reference to any single god. No matter what god the Indian may have worshipped he was labelled "Hindu".

it is only when people started saying "we are different' we worship Jehovah/Allah and do not wish to be clubbed as Hindu" that problems start occurring. In generally Indian Christians have less of a problem with this than Muslims. I know Christians who openly say they are "Hindu". This was also the basis of my describing many Indian Muslims as 'Muslim Hindus". Hindu is NOT a "God-based"classification although many Hindus seem to think so in a case of severe fractal recursivitis. Technically all Indians are Hindu if you take the historic sense of the term. When you start rejecting the historic sense of the term, you draw a line between one set of Indians who were seen before a particular historic event and another after the event. The idea of Pakistan was exactly this distinction. They got Pakistan, but they lost India.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby joshvajohn » 25 Dec 2008 22:47

thank you shiv for your note. it was good!

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby archan » 26 Dec 2008 09:48

Terror Against India
The Indian media will not use the term terrorism for any religious group other than the Hindus. Terrorism perpetrated in the name of Islam will be called ‘jehadi terrorism’ or simply ‘terrorism’. It is said that terrorism has no religion, but this is not the case if terrorism can be linked to Hinduism, a religion unlike most others, built upon non-violence.

So true.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Chandragupta » 26 Dec 2008 13:55

Rajmata & MunMun Singh have finally succeeded in giving Pakistan something to blame us on. How those Pigs would be laughing at us, for giving them a valuable point to raise when India comes & cries foul on terrorism. Now, the moment India mentions any Pakistani backed terrorist attack in India, the Pigs will sit back & talk at lengths about Indian Army's alleged role in Samjhauta & Malegaon blasts. Can't believe the UPA made India shoot itself in the foot. The waitress & her entire 'charan-chumban' team needs to be hanged till death for this, or better, pour kerosene & burn them alive.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby vsudhir » 26 Dec 2008 17:43

From another board:

Off topic, but important: ANother mask of NGOs who unleashed Guj 2002 is now exposed.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/famil ... b/402965/0

Family tells SIT: ‘riot victim’ already dead, of TB


No wonder the psec industry went about inflating the numbers of IM casualities in the riots while giving the impression that there were no yindoo victims at all onlee. I havce seen numbers ranging from 2k to 5k flashed around whereas the number the govt released in parliamnet was 750 odd of which a third were yindoo.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby vsudhir » 30 Dec 2008 19:26

Slightly OT but relevant.

Seems like that other great model of fake tolerance and secularism is breaking down. Read in full, pls.

From the left, a call to end the current Dutch notion of tolerance

Radical but radical onlee. The land of Theo Van Gogh waking up to smell the coffee or what? And why now?

Sample some excerpts:

If judged on the standard scale of caution in dealing with cultural clashes and Muslims' obligations to their new homes in Europe, the language of the Dutch position paper and Lilianne Ploumen, Labor's chairperson, was exceptional.

The paper said: "The mistake we can never repeat is stifling criticism of cultures and religions for reasons of tolerance."

Government and politicians had too long failed to acknowledge the feelings of "loss and estrangement" felt by Dutch society facing parallel communities that disregard its language, laws and customs.

Newcomers, according to Ploumen, must avoid "self-designated victimization."


Instead of reflexively offering tolerance with the expectation that things would work out in the long run, she said, the government strategy should be "bringing our values into confrontation with people who think otherwise."

There was more: punishment for trouble-making young people has to become so effective such that when they emerge from jail they are not automatically big shots, Ploumen said.

For Ploumen, talking to the local media, "The street is mine, too. I don't want to walk away if they're standing in my path.

"Without a strategy to deal with these issues, all discussion about creating opportunities and acceptance of diversity will be blocked by suspicion and negative experience."

And that comes from the heart of the traditional, democratic European left, where placing the onus of compatibility on immigrants never found such comfort before.


Indeed, Ploumen says, "Integration calls on the greatest effort from the new Dutch. Let go of where you come from; choose the Netherlands unconditionally." Immigrants must "take responsibility for this country" and cherish and protect its Dutch essence.

Not clear enough? Ploumen insists, "The success of the integration process is hindered by the disproportionate number of non-natives involved in criminality and trouble-making, by men who refuse to shake hands with women, by burqas and separate courses for women on citizenship.

"We have to stop the existence of parallel societies within our society."


Wow. Bravo. A signal event. Or not.

But the lessons are clear for us in yindia fighting an uphill battle for equality under law (read UCC and Art370) for all Indians. And the ref to creations of oil droplets leading to parallel society is unmistakeable.

Once the first cracks appear, in this case in the Euroleftist ideological stance, toh dam TooTtey deyr nahi lagti. I expect the depressed econ conditions also to raise the pitch and spread this 'new line' far and wide amongst the establishments in continental europe. The drop in oil prices has affected the petrodollar flows that KSA types previously used to muzzle/postpone this debate.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby jimmyray » 01 Jan 2009 15:47

bhaskarIN wrote:Terror has no religion, when terrorists kill, they don't ask for a person' name then kill. Many muslims died in terrorist attacks as well..
Hindus or Muslims or Chirstians or Sikhs are not the victims, we INDIANS are.


The most common form of terrorism originates from Wahabi Islam. When people say terror has no religion the usual argument is that people of all religions including Muslims die in terror attack. That argument will be valid if you are dealing with normal people. But when you are dealing with fanatics who have been brainwashed to kill innocent people (including decent Muslims) to spread their religion, then that argument is invalid. These fanatics think that if some Muslims die in the process so be it. Foe greater cause of their religion they are willing to sacrifice thousands of their brothers.
Some people blame poverty and illiteracy for terrorism. But IMHO poverty and illiteracy do help in breeding terrorism as they help in breeding criminals. However, poverty and illiteracy are not the only cause of terrorism. We have seen that even scientists, doctors, IT professionals and rich business men are actively involved in terrorist activities. The poor and illiterate are often the foot soldiers in terrorist activities but sometimes even the foot soldiers are educated and fairly well to do. The real problem is in the Wahabi Islamic ideology. There is a clear section of Wahabi Islamists who want to spread their religion through ‘sword’ and establish a caliphate. All the other supposed reasons for terrorism – Kashmir, Spain, Palestine, Chechnya, Babri Masjid, Gujarat riots, Indonesia, Philippines, Thailand etc. are accessories/propaganda which they use for spreading their ideology. Even if you remove all these factors these people would still find some other excuses and try to spread their ideology by force/terror. Just research properly and you can find a large number of people, who live in India and Pakistan who want to bring back Mughal/Muslim rule in Delhi. These pople want to take the world back to medieval times. Don’t just think that giving Kashmir or restoring Babri Masjid or hanging Modi will solve the problem. They already ask for Deccan, Delhi, Meerut, Moradabad, Aligarh, Assam, Bengal, Punjab and so on… where they will stop. Only way to stop them is to first accept that these people exist. Then identify them and fight/eliminate them. Also try to segregate them from mainstream Islam (that would be the most difficult part). When you try to remove cancer from the main body it is sill very painful and there is always a chance that it might have spread.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Bhaskar » 01 Jan 2009 23:10

jimmyray wrote:
bhaskarIN wrote:Terror has no religion, when terrorists kill, they don't ask for a person' name then kill. Many muslims died in terrorist attacks as well..
Hindus or Muslims or Chirstians or Sikhs are not the victims, we INDIANS are.


The most common form of terrorism originates from Wahabi Islam. When people say terror has no religion the usual argument is that people of all religions including Muslims die in terror attack. That argument will be valid if you are dealing with normal people. But when you are dealing with fanatics who have been brainwashed to kill innocent people (including decent Muslims) to spread their religion, then that argument is invalid. These fanatics think that if some Muslims die in the process so be it. Foe greater cause of their religion they are willing to sacrifice thousands of their brothers.
Some people blame poverty and illiteracy for terrorism. But IMHO poverty and illiteracy do help in breeding terrorism as they help in breeding criminals. However, poverty and illiteracy are not the only cause of terrorism. We have seen that even scientists, doctors, IT professionals and rich business men are actively involved in terrorist activities. The poor and illiterate are often the foot soldiers in terrorist activities but sometimes even the foot soldiers are educated and fairly well to do. The real problem is in the Wahabi Islamic ideology. There is a clear section of Wahabi Islamists who want to spread their religion through ‘sword’ and establish a caliphate. All the other supposed reasons for terrorism – Kashmir, Spain, Palestine, Chechnya, Babri Masjid, Gujarat riots, Indonesia, Philippines, Thailand etc. are accessories/propaganda which they use for spreading their ideology. Even if you remove all these factors these people would still find some other excuses and try to spread their ideology by force/terror. Just research properly and you can find a large number of people, who live in India and Pakistan who want to bring back Mughal/Muslim rule in Delhi. These pople want to take the world back to medieval times. Don’t just think that giving Kashmir or restoring Babri Masjid or hanging Modi will solve the problem. They already ask for Deccan, Delhi, Meerut, Moradabad, Aligarh, Assam, Bengal, Punjab and so on… where they will stop. Only way to stop them is to first accept that these people exist. Then identify them and fight/eliminate them. Also try to segregate them from mainstream Islam (that would be the most difficult part). When you try to remove cancer from the main body it is sill very painful and there is always a chance that it might have spread.


You are right to some extent, but, I would want to say where aren't these "Fanatics". Don't we Hindus have them, Modi for example, the ******** turned around when innocent children and women were being burnt just to win a mere election, or Raj Thackeray, a person who is fighting against people of his own religion and the same country, or the bajrang dal... There are many more...
Coming to Christians, isn't bush one? who killed millions of Iraqis in the so called "War on Terror", which wasn't really a war on terror. Or the people of the KKK. Sikhs also have those Babbar Khalsa terrorists.

Though it is fair to say that Muslims share a large chunk of these "Fanatics", though other religions do have a fair well share in this too... And pointing fingers at each other or acting like we are the victims isn't going to work...


Mumbai was bombed not because of "Religion" but because Pakistan did not want India to grow and for Indians to live in peace.
they wanted hatred in the country, Pakistan wanted fear, Pakistan wanted riots throughout the country. And we did not let them succeed! :D

Vikramaditya
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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Vikramaditya » 01 Jan 2009 23:17

bhaskarIN wrote:
You are right to some extent, but, I would want to say where aren't these "Fanatics". Don't we Hindus have them, Modi for example, the ******** turned around when innocent children and women were being burnt just to win a mere election, or Raj Thackeray, a person who is fighting against people of his own religion and the same country, or the bajrang dal... There are many more...
Coming to Christians, isn't bush one? who killed millions of Iraqis in the so called "War on Terror", which wasn't really a war on terror. Or the people of the KKK. Sikhs also have those Babbar Khalsa terrorists.

Though it is fair to say that Muslims share a large chunk of these "Fanatics", though other religions do have a fair well share in this too... And pointing fingers at each other or acting like we are the victims isn't going to work...


Mumbai was bombed not because of "Religion" but because Pakistan did not want India to grow and for Indians to live in peace.
they wanted hatred in the country, Pakistan wanted fear, Pakistan wanted riots throughout the country. And we did not let them succeed! :D


can you back your allegations against Modi with some sort of credible evidence ?

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Eshwar » 01 Jan 2009 23:31

bhaskarIN wrote:You are right to some extent, but, I would want to say where aren't these "Fanatics". Don't we Hindus have them, Modi for example, the ******** turned around when innocent children and women were being burnt just to win a mere election, or Raj Thackeray, a person who is fighting against people of his own religion and the same country, or the bajrang dal... There are many more...
Coming to Christians, isn't bush one? who killed millions of Iraqis in the so called "War on Terror", which wasn't really a war on terror. Or the people of the KKK. Sikhs also have those Babbar Khalsa terrorists.

Though it is fair to say that Muslims share a large chunk of these "Fanatics", though other religions do have a fair well share in this too... And pointing fingers at each other or acting like we are the victims isn't going to work...


Mumbai was bombed not because of "Religion" but because Pakistan did not want India to grow and for Indians to live in peace.
they wanted hatred in the country, Pakistan wanted fear, Pakistan wanted riots throughout the country. And we did not let them succeed! :D


Repeat a lie a thousand times and it becomes truth for the lazy. Do you have proof for what you said about Modi? Or are you just repeating the lies of Teesta and Arundhati?

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Prasad » 01 Jan 2009 23:38

[quote="bhaskarIN
Though it is fair to say that Muslims share a large chunk of these "Fanatics", though other religions do have a fair well share in this too... And pointing fingers at each other or acting like we are the victims isn't going to work...

Mumbai was bombed not because of "Religion" but because Pakistan did not want India to grow and for Indians to live in peace.
they wanted hatred in the country, Pakistan wanted fear, Pakistan wanted riots throughout the country. And we did not let them succeed! :D[/quote]

Lets dig deeper. Why does Porkistan want to do all that? Wasn't porkistan built on the faux-premise that they couldn't live in a hindu-majority india, our current states being ample testimony as to where their brains are located? wasn't religion their prime reason for wanting to split away from india and then attack it later on due to their in-born khujjli?

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Bhaskar » 02 Jan 2009 00:22

Vikramaditya wrote:
bhaskarIN wrote:
You are right to some extent, but, I would want to say where aren't these "Fanatics". Don't we Hindus have them, Modi for example, the ******** turned around when innocent children and women were being burnt just to win a mere election, or Raj Thackeray, a person who is fighting against people of his own religion and the same country, or the bajrang dal... There are many more...
Coming to Christians, isn't bush one? who killed millions of Iraqis in the so called "War on Terror", which wasn't really a war on terror. Or the people of the KKK. Sikhs also have those Babbar Khalsa terrorists.

Though it is fair to say that Muslims share a large chunk of these "Fanatics", though other religions do have a fair well share in this too... And pointing fingers at each other or acting like we are the victims isn't going to work...


Mumbai was bombed not because of "Religion" but because Pakistan did not want India to grow and for Indians to live in peace.
they wanted hatred in the country, Pakistan wanted fear, Pakistan wanted riots throughout the country. And we did not let them succeed! :D


can you back your allegations against Modi with some sort of credible evidence ?



You want evidence? Don't you watch "Television"?
Everyone knows Modi was involved...
Here is a sting operation by Tehelka -
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=mfnTl_Fwvbo
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=_DRS0WyGJVo
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=A9KlevWeYrE
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=BJWApVpLVpQ
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=0z114wnwXtQ

Modi is no different then terrorists, if not worse...

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Bhaskar » 02 Jan 2009 00:28

Lets dig deeper. Why does Porkistan want to do all that? Wasn't porkistan built on the faux-premise that they couldn't live in a hindu-majority india, our current states being ample testimony as to where their brains are located? wasn't religion their prime reason for wanting to split away from india and then attack it later on due to their in-born khujjli?


Everyone knows that Pakistan was built because Jinnah wanted to be the Prime Minister of a country. No matter how crappy it is...

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby JwalaMukhi » 02 Jan 2009 00:51

Excuse me onlee. wasn't Bakistan created to facilitate Z.A.Bhutto to become a pure vegetarian to eat grass, leaves or if not go hungry.


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