Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 06 Jan 2009 09:24

Ajmal had to say ‘Jai Hind’ in jail {we got our revenge, isn't time to close this thread for good?}

In keeping with jail rules, the sole terrorist captured alive during the 26/11 attacks, Mohammad Ajmal Amir, said ‘Jai Hind’ to officials at the Arthur Road Jail when he was lodged there for two days recently.

But getting Ajmal to utter the two words was not easy for the jailers. According to the jail manual, a prisoner is supposed to salute the jail staff and greet them by saying ‘Jai Hind’.

But when Ajmal was taken to the jail for the identification parade, he flatly refused to say ‘Jai Hind’, perhaps because of the indoctrination he underwent during training by the Lashkar-e-Taiba.

The jail staff, however, were in no mood to relent. Senior jail officers, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said that as soon as he was brought into the jail, the staff read out the dos and don’ts to him from the jail manual.

When Ajmal refused to comply, the jail staff had to “coax” him for nearly half an hour. He finally gave in and muttered ‘Jai Hind’ each time a jail officer approached him or passed by his cell.

“While saying ‘Jai Hind’, Ajmal never made eye contact,” a senior jail officer said. The staff then insisted he stand upright and salute them.

“Each time Ajmal said ‘Jai Hind’, we felt we had taken revenge for the innocent people he and the others had killed,” said a constable who was guarding his cell.

At least 37 witnesses, including police officers, identified Ajmal during the identification parade held at the jail on December 27 and 28.

Ajmal is in the custody of the Mumbai crime branch which is probing the terror attacks. After his police custody ends on Tuesday, the crime branch is likely to seek his custody in the CST firing case.

sum · Post by **sum** » 06 Jan 2009 09:32

I'm somehow certain that some covert ops will be reactivated ...It cant be a coincidence that so many ex-spooks are talking about covert actions and none of the current spooks will advice this to the GoI.
I think the GoI will listen to what they prescribe this time around.

Also, i think pak messed up big time by refusing to even acknowledge the attackers being Pak right at the start. They could have got away as they usually do by saying that Pakis being involved doesnt mean anything etc. Im certain that MMS and co would have used this as a excuse to tone down. However, by doing some brazen faced lying, even the most peacenik of babus/netas would have been riled and im sure that the GoI(even the "sleepless" MMS

) didn't take this mocking attitude of Pak lying down. The unusually aggressive tone of INC leaders in all talk shows on TV should be testimony for that.

I hope something is afoot.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 06 Jan 2009 09:44

As of now each terrorist is killing on average 10 innocent civilians + 3 police/NSG
There are hundreds of terrorists waiting to cross over (not to fight on our side) to kill. (Is this called cross over circuit as in stereo type amplifiers,

).

SO lot of innocents to die (hard)

I have an idea why not ask OFB to manufacture en mass Bullet proff vests and sell them at ration shops for subsidized rates.

Less innocent people will be killed, economy will improve, OFB will be in full production/employment,
Neta's can get quota sell in black to (people who want pavar grab will sell to terrorists too, but that will be rip off mal that wont protect them

), The ration shop wallahs will sell in black and rich too.
( We can even have colorful slogans on the bullet proof vests, Like desh ki Neta MMS zinda bad, Youth Congress Leader Rahul zinda bad next to them Raj sekhar reddy holding his hand High like blessing us to go to Father up stairs

)

we would have peacefooly defeated the terrorists. Make sure we collect the brass shells for recycle and make Brass ware in Azamgarh UP and export to Uncle..
As of now each terrorist is killing on average 10 innocent civilians + 3 police/NSG
There are hundreds of terrorists waiting to cross over (not to fight on our side) to kill.

Any takers we can buy stocks in companies that supply the Carbon Carbon fibre or even Khadhi Bhandar migh spin some carbon carbon no?

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 06 Jan 2009 10:24

Right now they are showing on TV news that pakistan is prepared for cyber attack on India, one such site defaced was E Rly, I read about that on Yahoo news , the computer used was from Toronto. Canada has a lot of Paki immigrants. Sooner or later they will create problem for Cnada just in the way Paki immigrants have become headache for UK govt. No wonder even for HSMP category Uk has made ot difficult to get visa.

How many of you have seen the best movie of 2008, Wednesday

, it has some brilliant message, should we use this script..?

Manas · Post by **Manas** » 06 Jan 2009 11:10

Folks,

As frustrating and disappointing as it is, to see the lack of a cohesive GOI response beyond the demarches and dossiers, Please mull the following potential scenarios. Probably explains GOI's inane approach.

1) India has no covert capability in TSP to pay back in the same coin.

2) TSP's Army is a formidable adversary and a messy escalation/ground war may end up with India suffering reverses and more than a bloody nose i.e. loss of some prime territory in punjab and rajashtan, real estate that is currently part of India.

3) GOI has reasons to believe that TSP's missile arsenal is huge and may end up targetting all large cities as far south as Bengaluru and Chennai.

4) GOI has reasons to believe that TSP's nuke threat is real.

5) Uncle as usual is signing $2B for 8 planes deals with GOI, while gifting $15B+ packages and 6 plane deals to TSP. The only explanation (as incredible as it may seem) is that TSP's diplomats play street smart, hard ball games, whereas GOI's MEA mandarins are what they seem (doofus characters).

6) GOI has reasons to believe that the TSP war effort will be directly bank rolled by Saudi Arabia and China whereas GOI has to spend hard $$s ear marked for economic development (or whatever little has happened under the UPA regime).

As the honorable home minister Mr. Chidambaram declared recently, GOI is confident that the people of India can face any number of Mumbai type attacks without letting their spirits being defeated. GOI is counting on people of India to give a befitting reply by facing more such attacks bravely. The citizens of India as always will not let the government down.

As I said in another thread, please pray that the next attack when it comes gets snuffed out by an extraordinary act of bravery by a taxiwallah, panwallah, chai wallah or a police constable. If that line of defence fails, please pray that the attacks are targeted at 5 star coffee shops where the well heeled rich, famous and the intelligensia cool their heels. If that line of defence fails, please pray that your near and dear ones (ordinary citizens) do not get caught in the mayhem.

All the sophisticated analysis on BRF attributing chankian brains to the various moves by GOI against Uncle, TSP, China, Saudi Arabia is just wishful thinking.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 06 Jan 2009 11:32

Hands folded Manmohan asks Emperor to help in cross border terror.
While NSA MKN looks clue less. He is true to his feelings though.

Quote of great leader who tugs to the coats of every one in the world, oops also Sari of Sonia G.

"On his arrival in St Petersburg on Sunday, the prime minister said he would impress upon the G8 leaders that the international community must adopt an approach of 'zero tolerance' for terrorism anywhere.

"The international community must isolate and condemn terrorism wherever they attack, whatever their cause and whichever country or group provides them sustenance and support," he said. "
Mind you this was way back 2006 its 2009 and still the s(h) ame song.

Tera nam Joker!
***
look at the body language of Shree PM MMS, cuddled like a baby in womb rather than chest front or a breast.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 06 Jan 2009 11:37

There is nothing to achieve by warring with TSP , manas.

When our own Internal security and Intelligence sharing network is rotten , not to forget that despite being 7 times the Size of TSP we don't hold a decisive military edge or credible missile defense system . TSP is full of trash and has nothing to loose in a conflict.

Add up all practicle scenarios and we have more reason to look inside than bomb TSP

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 06 Jan 2009 11:44

Absolutely! Roger that.

Whatever little they have, they are usable, they intent to use, and we cant do anything. WIth TSP India better use it or lose it. I dont know our mahan leader bums explode?

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 06 Jan 2009 11:58

PM M M Singh directly blames Paki agency(which) for funding terrorism

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Pak_ ... 940967.cms

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 06 Jan 2009 12:12

Pak has already declared war on India,through the repeated acts of terror perpetrated against us.Now it plans to take the wwra into cyberspace too from this report.While MMS whines about adopting a "holistic approach" to combating terroism,Pak simply goes ahead regardless of the mouthings of the senile and impotent leaders of our state.

http://news.in.msn.com/national/article ... id=1775303

Pak hackers planning to attack Indian cyber networks
New Delhi: After the Mumbai terror strikes, anti-India elements in Pakistan are now planning an attack on Indian computer networks, intelligence agencies have warned.

Already Pakistani hackers are trying out a dry run against Indian networks through popular websites registered there after the Mumbai terror strikes, Home Ministry sources told PTI here today.

"Every time the relations between the two countries dampen, Pakistanis start attacking Indian computer networks and this has increased after the Mumbai terror attacks," a Home Ministry source said.

Pakistani hackers have created websites such as the ****,(which has the word song in it) which are infested with software to hack data from the targeted computers, it said.

"The website ****( which has the word song in it) has over 12 lakh Indian users who are downloading stuff from these websites daily," said a cyber expert in the Ministry.

With these websites being highly popular, it will take only a few minutes for the hackers to take command of over 12 lakh computers in few minutes and the number of such computers can multiply in every minute, sources said.

"Instead of the existing less harmful virus, new ones such as Botnet and Zoombie can be easily released into the Indian computers, which later on replicate and make the entire server vulnerable," the expert said.

"Now a days new virus and worms are detected while downloading songs from these websites, which could be just a dry run to manage a bigger attack," he said.

PS:Corrected,but hint as to name given as to warn innocents!

negi · Post by **negi** » 06 Jan 2009 12:17

^^And why don't these intelligent people block these websites (look at the lizard it must have blocked half the world's news sites leave alone such urls). Oh yeah after the attack these very people might yap on the media as to how they had known in advance but government did not do nothing.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 06 Jan 2009 12:18

And our philip ji gives the address in his post to click and connect from BR?

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 06 Jan 2009 12:31

world ke 40% IT workers Indian hai, kaha hai wo kis kone me soye hai, are bhai aap bhi kuch kariye na?

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 06 Jan 2009 12:34

The PM said the November 26 Mumbai attacks were clearly carried out by the Pakistan-based outfit Lashkar-e-Taiba. He added the Mumbai attack must have had support from some official agencies in Pakistan. “
Given the sophistication and military precision of Mumbai attacks, some Pakistani official agencies must have supported them,” said the PM.

Again he is not unequivocal, just not having enough balls to say TSP is behind this.

I give up

bahooo bahooo Sonia G ko laao Desh ko bacha oooooo bhooo

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 06 Jan 2009 13:46

The world must be laughing their ass off. For a economic, military giant, India has proved to be nothing more than a sissy. Our PM can do nothing more than blame Pakistan over & over again, without even having enough guts to talk about their direct involvement. For the 54897676549th time, he repeats the same lines over & over again, just like Rajmata who can't get tired saying "Haaamaari naaarmi kho khoi haaamaari khammzzauri naa saamjhe".

Pakistan is slapping us in the face again & again. They're daring us to do whatever we can, it's an open challenge but the GoI is too blinded to see that. Now that Pakistan has thrown the all mighty Dossier into the dustbin, hell they have even started making up their own Dossier about Indian terrorism!! Expect Shivshankar Menon to go to US, begging & squealing on behalf of Sardar Ji & Rajmata to bail India out & save our asses from the all powerful, all conquering Porkistan.

This government is shameless, ballless, gutless & headless. They have brought such shame to the country that it'll take decades to wash it off. Not only have they successfully demonstrated India's lack of politcal will & reluctance to use military might, they have also lost an upper hand on Porkistan who will now strive harder to achive equal-equal status, since it has shown it can thwart any Indian offensive, military & diplomatic and has more or less rendered all Indian influence on the global stage useless.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 06 Jan 2009 14:07

I think Unkil is 'urging restraint' once again..., firm action jeopardises Unkil's interests in the region. also why Unkil is busy behind the scenes to broker a deal. Regime change in Pakistan is underway, both civil and within the military

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 06 Jan 2009 14:41

So much for Paki cooperation and MMS's confidence in Ucle Sam and the Porki leaders! The LET launches its website.

Banned Pak terror outfit Lashkar-e-Islam launches its website
4 Jan, 2009, 1404 hrs IST, ANI

Banned Pak terror outfit Lashkar-e-Islam launches its website
4 Jan, 2009, 1404 hrs IST, ANI

PESHAWAR: The banned terrorist outfit, Lashkar-e-Islam (LeI) has launched its website to highlight the activities of the organization. (LeI) is led b
y Mangal Bagh in Khyber Agency, which was declared illegal in June 2007.

The website shows a black flag inscribed with 'Tehrik Lashkar-e-Islam' on the top right corner and outfit's logo on the top left.

With two cross swords on the homepage, the website was launched in the English language about two months ago, The News reports.

Written in poor quality English, the flash animation belt of the site shows the news highlights, generally, tales of LeI volunteers helping families to find out their kidnapped relatives, and acting against the criminal gangs.

The left table of the site has seven sections for videos, verses of Holy Quran, Hadith, stories, daily addressing, contact and feedback.

The 'contact us' on the page features two landline and three cell-phone numbers, while the feedback option requires visitor's email address to send a message to the LeI group.

The 'daily addressing' section of the web-page consists the audio speeches of LeI's leaders, mostly the routine orders, the LeI code of conduct and support invitation from people.

So far, the video section has been left empty, but LeI sources said that they would soon upload videos of their routine activities.

The 'Hadith' and 'Ayat' section of the LeI website consists of English translation of Hadiths and verses, while the 'stories' section contains LeI's routine work details and leaders' statements with photographs.

Though the quality of the language used on the site is sub-standard but, most readers can understand the messages posted on the site.

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 06 Jan 2009 14:42

I think its safe to say that we have lost the war and the "diplomatic" offensive even before it even started. I call for IB4TL, it will save us some blood pressure and help some of us to live a little longer until we meet our jihadi terminator.

Babus are thinking WWGD: What would Gandhi do? You guessed it right... turn the other cheek

Babudom Zindabaad.... yeeevil yindoos murdabad....

God save India from yeevil yindooos

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 06 Jan 2009 14:43

tripathi wrote:
Karkare family is ready to forgive Kasab
She said her family is willing to forgive Kasab, the main accused of Mumbai terror attacks.
"He is only 21 years old and he should be given an opportunity to change his ideology," said the martyr's wife.

http://news.in.msn.com/national/article ... id=1775270
The rot/softness is within our society.so govt is just as soft as society is.so no point blaming the govt. if we ourselves r soft.

With due respect to her & their grave loss, I do have a certain feeling about these soundbites:

By forgiving kasab & criticising Malegoan, could this be an initiation for her into politcs, congress style?
I will not be surprised if she gets a party ticket in the next elections & wins.
It was already mentioned in BR somewhere that it would be wrong to give an AshokChakra to Karkare.
But can a honoured martyrs widow with the 'right' kind of soundbites loose an election - Ofcourse not!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Jan 2009 14:48

you hit nail on the head brother. priya dutt duly claimed her late father's seat.

sum · Post by **sum** » 06 Jan 2009 15:40

I think its safe to say that we have lost the war and the "diplomatic" offensive even before it even started. I call for IB4TL, it will save us some blood pressure and help some of us to live a little longer until we meet our jihadi terminator.

Completely agree...
The response has been too embarrassing to even type about and there looks to be no further action coming other some more shameful pleading and begging.
So,IB4TL

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Jan 2009 15:51

Sonia should be forced to do the begging instead of sipping tea on the shady verandah and sending her underlings.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Jan 2009 15:51

Philip wrote:P
"The website ****( which has the word song in it) has over 12 lakh Indian users who are downloading stuff from these websites daily," said a cyber expert in the Ministry.

With these websites being highly popular, it will take only a few minutes for the hackers to take command of over 12 lakh computers in few minutes and the number of such computers can multiply in every minute, sources said.

A neighbor has a pretty girlfriend I am madly in love with. Since I can't get her - I am desperately picking up my neighbor's used condoms and using them myself and thinking that I am a great hacker.

Pah! 12 lakh computers. Those 12 lakh computers are all already infested anyway. Anyone with a teenage son or daughter in India will know that there has to be a huge air gap between your own machine and computer belonging to said son or daughter and a mechanism to ensure that the sites you visit don't include any sites visited on that computer.

In fact it is best to put a 10 meter gap between any pen drive owned by a college student and your machine.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 06 Jan 2009 15:53

indradhanush wrote:world ke 40% IT workers Indian hai, kaha hai wo kis kone me soye hai, are bhai aap bhi kuch kariye na?

There is a Rs 2 Crore fine + Jail for hacking in India

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Jan 2009 15:59

tripathi wrote:
Karkare family is ready to forgive Kasab
She said her family is willing to forgive Kasab, the main accused of Mumbai terror attacks.
"He is only 21 years old and he should be given an opportunity to change his ideology," said the martyr's wife.

http://news.in.msn.com/national/article ... id=1775270

The rot/softness is within our society.so govt is just as soft as society is.so no point blaming the govt. if we ourselves r soft.

I have posted my take on this in the link below
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 33#p596433

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 06 Jan 2009 16:04

Kasab to convert?

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 06 Jan 2009 17:04

This whole "handing over the dossier" business is extremely frustrating and humilating, no doubt. But in the big picture, it is essential that we do this for several reasons. The primary one is that at a minimum, this time we will force TSPA to accept publicly that pigLeTs from TSP did this attack. They will end up releasing the pigLeT chiefs including Hafiz-e-Suar after the world attention dies down, but when the day of recknoning comes and trust me it will, this will come in handy.

Taking a short sanity break here ************

so far what the GOI has done is exactly what the GOI should have done, if the end goal is the destruction of TSP and its terror enterprise. The military may have been given the go-ahead, (it took Colin Powell a good six months to assemble forces for Gulf War 1, hey?) and the international scene is being prepared systematically by demonstrating that India has done far more than any of them would have done if faced by such clear proof of a neighbor indulging in war-by-terror.

I go back to the early Russian quote where they suggested that India do the diplomatic route and get all possible entities on board before doing what needs to be done.

So ... I still hope that this approach does not preclude some serious, permanent jhapads rather than the usual artillery barrage against a few posts, or even a token air raid over a row of terrorist latrines. Meanwhile, the PA is basically forced into a bunker mentality, and the Pakhtoons are using the opportunity (I hope).

Nothing really lost so far. Trouble is that few of us have any faith left that MMS & Co have anything better in their plans. Of course I continue to have Faith

What is missing is the Op Parakram type parakramams with highly visible escalation - but then that was a sure giveaway that it was a

PLEASE HOLD MY ARM! Or I may hit him!

type of bluff. Of course I think that worked, in that Pak got nuke-nooded in short order in June 2002.

This time a clear distinction has to be made between the Pak Army and the Pak "civilian" Kleptocracy, so a blunt invasion threat is counterproductive. However, a war that jhapads the PA but is hardly visible to the civilian world and gives plausible ignorability to the Kleptocracy, is quite another thing.
**************** End Sanity Break.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Jan 2009 17:55

Philip wrote:Kasab to convert?

perhaps appointed as priest in a congress fortress temple

Pakistan doublespeak, says Mumbai proof not credible
Log kya kahengei, if I respond with Guns!~ it doesn't make any economic sense attacking pakistan!!!???

satya · Post by **satya** » 06 Jan 2009 18:12

India's covert option

Vikram Sood
05 January 2009

This time, in Mumbai, the enormity of the ongoing tragedy really hit ‘us’. The debate about the how and why and what to do next has been on for a month now, unlike in the past when bomb blasts and killings were about ‘them’ and handled by the ‘others’. Shaken from the secure comfort of our opulence and tearful of the loss of fancy places to eat, few of us realise that in the year that has gone by, 1,007 civilians and 368 security forces personnel were killed in terrorist-related violence all over the country. There are a few important lessons from this and one can only hope that the extreme anger of November will translate into cold determination for the future.

One has also to be realistic about countering terrorism. Like crime, it will never disappear completely, no matter what laws and agencies we have. It can only be deterred and contained. The Mumbai massacres are undoubtedly a lesson about our vulnerabilities, our huge security gaps, our disjointed reaction, our media hype and our weak response to Pakistan. As a result, we are today seeing the unfortunate spectacle of Pakistan, the obvious suspect in this case and many others that have preceded this, stealing the ground from under us and screaming that Islam and Pakistan are under threat from India. The suspect has changed the rules of the debate and smuggled in Kashmir into the equation.

Mumbai happened even though there was a semblance of some intelligence, but no one connected the dots. We may not be lucky next time, and there will be a next time unless we do several things in the short term and others in the long term. Every terrorist attack is a learning experience for the terrorist and he comes back stronger and deadlier. Unfortunately, the State learns less.

We must also admit that quite a few of the things that happen or do not happen do so because of the way we are. The contempt the citizen has for the law in India is visible on our streets all over the country, and the state shows its indifference when it fails to correct this. It is a sad reflection on our polity that promises bijli, sadak and paani (electricity, roads and water) as an election slogan 60 years after Independence. Obviously, the State has receded when we find that those who have the means no longer depend upon it. They get themselves a generator when the State does not supply electricity, dig tube wells when there is no water, and hire private guards when there is no security.

Tata Group Chairman Ratan Tata’s comment — “We will protect ourselves and we will try to deter such activities again and we will seek external expertise for the same’’ — has a significance that may have escaped many. What he is saying in effect is that India will have to move up from the present system of merely gated communities with unarmed guards to a system where the corporate sector must learn to anticipate and protect itself against lethal attacks. In a sense it means that the State will not or cannot protect or provide security to all its national assets. Possibly this means entering into the sphere of corporate warriors where each big corporate house has its own security apparatus more in the style of Blackwater, Dyncorp or Vinnel of the US. It was Dyncorp personnel who provided security to Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai in the initial days. Considerable security work has been outsourced in Iraq and Saudi Arabia to private warriors. Maybe that is the need of the hour because the first thing that we need to do in the short term is to protect ourselves and to make our vulnerable national assets invulnerable.

This would leave the State free to handle those responsible for spreading terror. This means taking on Pakistan differently from the way we have in recent years. Talking peace with Pakistan may be necessary, but we should not delude ourselves into assuming that Pakistan’s attitude will change. With a 7,500-km sea frontier and porous land borders, we will always be vulnerable to terrorist attacks launched by an implacable foe. They cannot be guarded by good intentions and fond hopes. Pakistan has been fighting a proxy war especially after 1971 at places and times of its choosing. It is a total war against India and we must treat it so. Other than adopting defensive postures, we have done precious little to teach the perpetrator a lesson.

Getting ready for Pakistan and its terrorists extends beyond modernising the armed forces with the latest aircraft, tanks or submarines. It means above all ensuring a highly professional and sharp intelligence capability. It means equipping our specialised forces with the most lethal and suitable equipment, and keeping them agile, trained and mobile for all times. It means empowering the local state units adequately in every sense of the word to be the first respondents in a crisis. It means developing a covert option.

This probably sounds sinister, but a country’s national interests are protected by hard-nosed realism and not by soft options. A State is respected by others only if it is able to protect its interests and project its power. If India is seen to be soft and weak by our neighbours, we will lose respect even here. The covert option is something many States have and they use it, too. The Americans are quite free and easy in announcing that they have set aside funds to destabilise an unfriendly regime. The same rules do not apply to us but the principles of trade craft are usable.

Covert action can be of various kinds. One is the paramilitary option, which is what the Pakistanis have been using against us. It is meant to hurt, destabilise or retaliate. The second is the psychological war option, which is a very potent and unseen force. It is an all weather option and constitutes essentially changing perceptions of friends and foes alike. The media is a favourite instrument, provided it is not left to the bureaucrats because then we will end up with some clumsy and implausible propaganda effort. More than the electronic and print media, it is now the internet and YouTube that can be the next-generation weapons of psychological war. Terrorists use these liberally and so should those required to counter terrorism.

The third weapon in the covert option is the use of cyber techniques. This is an ability to intercept cyber networks and communications, cripple systems and carry out counter attacks on the enemy’s systems. In a country that boasts its brain power, it should not be difficult to find such expertise.

Despite the latest drama on our borders, future wars are unlikely to engage massive armies locked in prolonged battle for real estate. Attacks could be of the Mumbai kind or come by stealth, master-minded by some computer whiz kid and the targets are our ways of life. Unless the State learns to be flexible and agile, and unless there is full international cooperation, it will always be an uphill struggle with the peak never really visible. The covert option is more than just blowing bridges and killing innocents. At all times, it should form part of a State’s armoury. It takes years to build this capability and just a few weeks to destroy this.

The author is a former secretary of Research & Analysis Wing (R&AW)

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 06 Jan 2009 18:15

Actually, Kasab is in for a fantastic future. Soon, the secular channels will run sympathetic stories on how the poor kid was brainwashed & used by Jehadis & how his parents are being trated. Then, like Karkare's wife, other secular personalities will hold a candle light vigil for his release & request our secular UPA government for his release. Our Rajmata & Sardar Ji will then, upholding the Gandhian traditions, pardon him, delivering a tough response to terrorists by giving out the ever famous teaching of our saints - 'Forgiveness is Divine'. After a few years, Kasab, now an Indian citizen, will be running for elections from the same district of Mumbai where he once butchered Indians, on a ticket from secular UPA, promising to make amends for his actions. And this heart wrenching story will end, with a group song & dance, by Sardar Ji, Rajmata, Zardari, Kiyani, Masood Azhar, Musharraf, all with candles & roses in their hands, singing for peace and prosperity..Beautiful, beautiful..

asprinzl · Post by **asprinzl** » 06 Jan 2009 19:27

Chandragupta, you missed a few things. A book deal sometime down the road if he survives the hangman's noose. A long the way a "reformed" Kassab might work the lecture circuit preaching how to fight or manage the Islamic terrorism. A couple of invitation from the US....lets say the Rand Corp or Council of Foreign Relations or Heritage Foundation....he will have a foot in the USA. Some idiot will try to sponsor a green card.....oh he cannot go back to either India or anywhere because his life is in danger bull$hit....wallah a Green Card might just happen. Sometime down the line a US citizenship. Think of the book deal, lecture fees and we shall see a poor illeterate sod from the Jihadi swamp of backwater Punjab becoming millionaire intellectual working the halls of freedom in the US etc. Hey who said becoming a Jihadi is not a good career move as long as you survive your mission. Remember the Jihadiot Ramlibinassaleh? Hi was fingured by a fellow Jihadiot who collected some 10 million and now lives a nice life somewhere in England. Preety good move compared to having a cave for home.
Thats what will happen if idiots are in charge of the world. Unfortunately for a long time to come Idiots will continue to be in charge of the world.
Avram

tripathi · Post by **tripathi** » 06 Jan 2009 19:56

shiv wrote:
I have posted my take on this in the link below
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 33#p596433

nice to read ur reply.educative.u mean to say that patience is the key?if im not wrong.but how long?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 06 Jan 2009 19:58

So you see as expected, TSP is chipping away in a war of attrition. Dismissing India's evidence as insufficient while accusing India of war mongering. Pakis are scripting this brilliantly knowing that the real arbiter here is Unkil bahadur and NOT India. I am saying nothing new, but what TSP hopes to achieve is get India to the negotiating table through a series of defiant and charming manuevers with Unkil by his side, and at that point, since both of us are 'victims' onlee, lets talk Kashmir to rid ourselves of this 'disease'.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 06 Jan 2009 20:02

However, a war that jhapads the PA but is hardly visible to the civilian world and gives plausible ignorability to the Kleptocracy, is quite another thing.

If Bajrang Dal and Shiv Sena can pull this off and actually live up to their reputation as the Indian equivalents of LeT/Jaish as many p-sec Indians and entire west claim, they will earn the gratitude of the entire country and will advance the cause of world peace.

tripathi · Post by **tripathi** » 06 Jan 2009 20:07

asprinzl wrote:Chandragupta, you missed a few things. A book deal sometime down the road if he survives the hangman's noose. A long the way a "reformed" Kassab might work the lecture circuit preaching how to fight or manage the Islamic terrorism. A couple of invitation from the US....lets say the Rand Corp or Council of Foreign Relations or Heritage Foundation....he will have a foot in the USA. Some idiot will try to sponsor a green card.....oh he cannot go back to either India or anywhere because his life is in danger bull$hit....wallah a Green Card might just happen. Sometime down the line a US citizenship. Think of the book deal, lecture fees and we shall see a poor illeterate sod from the Jihadi swamp of backwater Punjab becoming millionaire intellectual working the halls of freedom in the US etc. Hey who said becoming a Jihadi is not a good career move as long as you survive your mission. Remember the Jihadiot Ramlibinassaleh? Hi was fingured by a fellow Jihadiot who collected some 10 million and now lives a nice life somewhere in England. Preety good move compared to having a cave for home.
Thats what will happen if idiots are in charge of the world. Unfortunately for a long time to come Idiots will continue to be in charge of the world.
Avram

ultimately oneday when he becomes 60-70 yrs he will get nobel peace prize and bharat ratna and hilal-e-pakistan award.

pradeepe · Post by **pradeepe** » 06 Jan 2009 20:10

I think this is the part by Mr.Vikram Sood that needs to be highlighted.

satya wrote:India's covert option
Vikram Sood
05 January 2009

This probably sounds sinister, but a country’s national interests are protected by hard-nosed realism and not by soft options. A State is respected by others only if it is able to protect its interests and project its power. If India is seen to be soft and weak by our neighbours, we will lose respect even here. The covert option is something many States have and they use it, too. The Americans are quite free and easy in announcing that they have set aside funds to destabilise an unfriendly regime. The same rules do not apply to us but the principles of trade craft are usable.

The author is a former secretary of Research & Analysis Wing (R&AW)

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Jan 2009 20:20

tripathi wrote:
shiv wrote:
I have posted my take on this in the link below
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 33#p596433
nice to read ur reply.educative.u mean to say that patience is the key?if im not wrong.but how long?

Actually I'm not saying patience is the key.

I was trying to point out a very Indian tendency to forgive and think on a higher plane. This is completely alien to Islamist thought. For Islamic extremism, you hit and kill no matter what.

Why have both (Islamic demands to attack and kill and the forgiveness and lack of retaliation shown by India/Karkare's wife)survived over the centuries?

Both have survived because both offer survival advantages and both strategies work under certain conditions.

But sometimes the equilibrium gets upset and new equlibriums must be reached,

If you reflect on what is happening in the world today and compare that with what has happened in history, you will find that probably for the first time after the crusades and possibly for the first time since islam was born there i worldwide contempt and hatred for actions made in the name of islam. For the first time in the history of the world a person can keep a name like "Mohammadisapedo" and be heard and seen worldwide. For the first time people are openly saying things that could not be said.

Something has changed in the world and there is a revolution against blind hatred that is being spread by islamic groups. And those Islamic groups are all firmly centered in Pakistan, the only nation formed in order to separate Muslims from non Muslims.

Pakistan is not just a nation. Its strength derives from the way it has used Islam and the way it has used Islam has made the name of Islam to be mixed with dirt. Along with Pakistan's death I expect to see a dilution or demise of the most hateful aspects of Islam that Pakistan stands for. It is foolish to see Pakistan as a nation. It is an idea filled with hate. That idea is now showing itself and Pakistan is trying to say "Islam is a religion of peace and Muslims are victims" But Pakistan is killing this very idea by its actions. And that may be a good thing for the world. The war is actually bigger than Pakistan.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 06 Jan 2009 20:22

Er...

I would say that the Pakistani response is EXACTLY what India wants to prove. What is happening is that now it is being demonstrated to all, what is wrong with silly ideas like

Why don't u present the evidence to the Pakistani Civilian Government? THEY are victims of terror too, and they will help you!

To go back to 1970, this is precisely what Mrs. G did, except that she put herself on the firing line, going to American and Oiropean universities, and speaking directly to people on why the world needed to act to stop Pakistani genocide in East Pak. All the time, the Mukti Bahini was eroding the Pakis' ability to come out at night, or out of their cantonments at all.

None of this will make a difference at the UNSC, because the same nations will vote the same way they always do on indiapakistan issues, but GOI is slowly pressuring world opinion by showing that the entire pakistani establishment needs to go, not just the "rogue elements in the ISI".

So the Pakis are sticking both feet deeper and deeper into their mouths with each such "tacticallly brilliant" comeback to Indian evidence. When both feet are inextricably buried in their mouths, their musharrafs will present nice targets for leisurely soccer practice.

Mumble-Mumble is India's Marshal Kutuzov - appears to be asleep, but is simply waiting, waiting, lulling the Pakis into complacency and exhibiting their gandooness.

samuel · Post by **samuel** » 06 Jan 2009 20:36

Has anyone here heard of preparations going on by the armed forces? Of course, you must not answer yes, if that is true...silence is answer enough.

The Indian way is to prove the other guy wrong, dead wrong, incontrovertibly wrong in every court of justice. Then stand up and demand he ask for forgiveness. If the oponent does not, it is a fight to the death, many times our pehelvan dies.

If the oponent does ask for forgiveness, everyone goes has tea and the story repeats again. It is the accumulation of the 1000 cuts that we are incapable of civilizationally avenging, and that is just as true as all the Dharmic shouting only an Indian is capable of.

If we are going to leave all that behind in a new India, then all this hand bowling around the world to lob one or two grenades is a waste of tax payer money. We already paid them more than enough to covertly clean them out. Just go f*king clean them already and don't come home till the job is done goddamn mofo (aimed at no one in particular, of course!)

S

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Jan 2009 20:38

Agreed on the Tata plan.. perhaps, this could be all privitized by our industrialist.. and covertly funded (we have quite a large black money anyways with netas.. chance for them to make it white) by GoI. That way, its a govt operation covert!~ gives intel inputs to the private covert operations.

Like asking local units to take up armed struggle to counter jihad.. send these hit squads on assassinations, camp destruction, and other anti jihad operations, including destruction of terror madrassas.

2 thumbs up!