I am inclined to agree with the likes of KarnaArjuna. Politics is not about right and wrong at all, it's about doing what's MOST profitable. Keeping this in mind, why would politicians in Pakistan deal with terrorism (even if they're provided mountains of evidence), when it keeps them alive? Or, why would Indians 'respond' to terrorism at all (which is what this thread is all about), when terrorism has many advantages for the political class?
Hence, people who expect politicians to act in terms of ethical considerations are only kidding themselves. If a politician can 'use' terrorists to destroy his rivals, why would he even think about ending terrorism? It pays, so he wouldn't. Problem is, we're looking at the issue of terrorism (and a response to it) from the perspective of common people, who believe in right vs wrong, legal vs illegal, and all the rest of that duality. Politicians have a totally perspective, in that they fight terrorism if it's profitable, if not, they wouldn't waste time or money.
So the real problem is not only the political class, but the very nature of politics which renders action based on ethics totally useless.
narayanan wrote:
So the Pakis are sticking both feet deeper and deeper into their mouths with each such "tacticallly brilliant" comeback to Indian evidence. When both feet are inextricably buried in their mouths, their musharrafs will present nice targets for leisurely soccer practice.
I want to believe what you said, but then I look at the current scenario, I look at MunMun Sardar, I look at Rajmata, Antulay, Malegaon and it does paint a very bleak picture.
The audience for the "evidence" is obviously the other nations, and it is all just a tamasha. Do you think anyone in Mumble-Mumble's cabinet thinks the Pakis are going to do anything with the "evidence"? The LeT goons have been bragging about what they did in Mumbai, so why else do the Pakis need any evidence?
It's all a tamasha, and my take is that it is to buy time to make the preparations. Whether they will then go ahead is where your skepticism about Mumble-Mumble cannot be faulted. I don't much believe that MMS will do anything VISIBLE either.
But Siachen is not VISIBLE, hence I think that is where it's happening.
narayanan wrote:The audience for the "evidence" is obviously the other nations, and it is all just a tamasha. Do you think anyone in Mumble-Mumble's cabinet thinks the Pakis are going to do anything with the "evidence"? The LeT goons have been bragging about what they did in Mumbai, so why else do the Pakis need any evidence?
It's all a tamasha, and my take is that it is to buy time to make the preparations. Whether they will then go ahead is where your skepticism about Mumble-Mumble cannot be faulted. I don't much believe that MMS will do anything VISIBLE either.
But Siachen is not VISIBLE, hence I think that is where it's happening.
Siachen is peanuts.
Baluchistan. Balwaristan. Jiyo Sindh. Pakhtoonistan is more the answer!
N^3 you mentioned change within pakistan. We've all heard about PMs going out and Presidents becoming PMs
I was wondering if the ISI Chief and Army chief are included too.
paki musharrafs may be again kayanied. 100% possibility. he has a prevez middle to musharrafs' front. may be we can coin kayani to be the back of musharraf! this time, the pakis will not only get their musharrafs chopped, they would have their kayanies given hot rod treatment.
I have been following the recent escalations closely between India and China's proxy here and I wonder the extent of the chinese involvement in funding the so called Jihadis. Has China taken a leaf out of the US history to support the mujahideen's and to covertly fund them to drain India's resources? If yes, what should be the diplomatic step against China? I think we all agree (even pakistan agrees that in a conventional war they would lose the battle in a fortnight) which might then raise an alarm bell amongst it's anti-establishment elements in the quasi-government to launch nuke warheads on India. I think we all know that our NMD capabilities are very rudimentary (in fact even the US NMD is rudimentary, but thats a different discussion)
Let's say that the US is going to stay in afghanistan for a long time. In case India decides to go to war after a long ineffective diplomatic offensive fails, how willing and supportive will the US be in this war, considering that the nukes threaten them too? (i know that pakistans missiles are ranged only enough for a radius around India) but if launched by jihadi elements from the far corners of middle east can threaten europe which will bring in Nato) And let's say if the US enters the war theatre in South Asia, how long will it be before China attacks taiwan? The question of how long China will take to capture taiwan depends on how much airlifting the US can do and how Japan and Korea choose their strategies) and will China enter into two theatres of war at once, committing the same mistake as Germans in WW2? or will China be smart and try to hold the taiwan strait first?
India has clearly gained the upperhand in getting the US detach themselves from pakistan diplomatically, and it is evident by the defence relations of pakistan and china. However, one difference I see in the sino-paki defence ties vis-a-vis us-paki defence deals, was that the US pampered pakistan for being an ally (which would mean significant funds for pakistan to divert them towards "defence")and is only lately recognizing that pakistan has been double dealing them (inspite of India telling them that for over 3 decades). China however, even though is helping pak with their defence requirements has already rebuffed them for monetary support and is using them only as a pawn in their anti-India efforts. Pakistan obviously fails to realize this and without the US support, is slowly derailing towards being an economically failed state. Clearly, for India, that is again an alarm. This would mean the jihadi elements would be reinforced with the impoverished population which if takes over the state has the greatest chances of a nuke shootoff on India. Indian and US intelligence agencies must be prepared to disarm nuclear pakistan as this is not a distant possibiility but an ever more increasing reality.
Last edited by Amit Singh on 06 Jan 2009 22:31, edited 1 time in total.
AMS,
Did you read the forum guidelines at the time of registering?
You have to have a human sounding name at the forum. I suggest you think of one pronto, because the Admins is going to do so in ten ... nine ...eight...
nope, sorry didnt read the guidelines. AMS is my initial, it is a human name, I assure you. Thanks for the welcome!
Username changed to Amit Singh.
Rahul.
Last edited by Rahul M on 07 Jan 2009 00:07, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:username changed.
Baluchistan. Balwaristan. Jiyo Sindh. Pakhtoonistan is more the answer!
I was starting to say that isn't it odd that here we have terrorist strikes and the response appears to be target practice in Siachen (unless, of course, that is an opening to clear Skardu). It somehow reminds me of Major Surinder Singh's faux-gallantry, and may be that is what is being planned on a grand scale here. If we can indulge in this tamasha now, why not take it to its logical tamashesque conclusion.
There is a dearth of confidence, at least on this citizen's part, and pardon me for the rising sarcasm. I am less worried about the respectability of the govt. than I am of my country. I am furious. Even my mother is furious for fux sake and we cannot let this pass.
Comedy in public is ok, so long as the clocks are clean and there is order. So just find out who is responsible and make them disappear, one at a time if necessary, and don't stop even if it takes all of the future to get it done. If bridges and convoys need to start disappearing ok, if farmhouses need to fry, fine. If HQs need to start falling apart, OK, and if brahmos need to go to terror camps, just dandy. Do what needs done, don't worry about escalation, the country and normal folks will be behind this, 100%
S
Last edited by samuel on 06 Jan 2009 22:36, edited 1 time in total.
narayanan wrote:
It's all a tamasha, and my take is that it is to buy time to make the preparations. Whether they will then go ahead is where your skepticism about Mumble-Mumble cannot be faulted. I don't much believe that MMS will do anything VISIBLE either.
But Siachen is not VISIBLE, hence I think that is where it's happening.
Isn't your enthusiasm mis-placed. The media which reported on every move of NSG during the bombay massacre has not reported on a single troop movement....No convoys up the mountains, no boats down the stream.
Even the Israelis are now busy with their own headaches, so what preparation are we awaiting?
Oh, you meant the Roti, kapda, makan & vote type?
Mumble-Mumble is India's Marshal Kutuzov - appears to be asleep, but is simply waiting, waiting, lulling the Pakis into complacency and exhibiting their gandooness.
Admire your faith in MMS and pray that it(your vision) comes true...
The country’s security system is “inadequate” to deal with numerous and needs to be improved significantly, said Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Tuesday.
“Our defence mechanisms to deal with numerous threats are inadequate,” the Prime Minister said while admitting that there had been a security lapse in the November 26-29 terror attack in Mumbai.
Now can someone please remind all of us who was in-charge of these mechanisms for the past few years. And while at it, can someone also let us know how long will it take to be adequate. And also does the timer clock reset everytime piglets attack?
Agree with N3. The dossier tamasha is so pointless and Keystone Cop-ish that it doesn't make any sense, even in Delhi, unless it is a smokescreen to buy time and prepare the ground. There is no flashing of swords and twirling of mucchads like in Parakram and the NDA/Lok Sabha is strangely quiet. This should make the pakis uneasy but it looks like they don't get it, which is according to plan and expectation. Too many planets are aligned for us right now & it is the most auspicious moment we can ever expect to see. For starters, my quess is that "Brahmos" might become a terrifying word for the pakis going forward and it doesn't require a single jawan to move a muscle for now. It scares the sh!t out of even the Tomahawk-e-Predator Ka Baap Ameerkhans and there will never be a better time to introduce it to the world.
Also, MMS's non-communicativeness reminds me of his deliberations during the nuke deal. The man is no Churchill but he is a Sardar who has Bole So Nihal! Sat Sri Akaal! in his blood. I'll be happy to give him the benefit of the doubt.
In spite of the track record of our political class, any other scenario is an impossible non-starter given what has happened and continues to happen.
I was moved from St. Paul school in Hyderabad to Mahbub college when my father was transferred from CWE Bidar ( those days were busy days after the 1962 punch we received from Mao). This was in 1964/1965.
First day in new school Mahbub college ( the main street rumble tumble goonda giri school compared to Catholic St. Paul)
I was seated to next to a bully and his cohorts, during the Lunch break I was trying to sip water from the tap and the cohort pushed me from behind and I hit my head to the tap. I turned around and picked up a fist fight with the Cohort, I landed good three punches and the main bully seeing that his cohort might be losing, holds my both hands from behind shouting, pinning me 'Are kaiko lad the ho (aka ( why are you guys fighting), while the cohort now free takes a series of punches on my face. I end up with black eye and blue in face and red with anger not knowing what to do.
Now watch this Youtube video in the picture the same thing is enacted but the camera shot excludes a person holding back the guy receiving the punches.
Uncle is the bully who holds our (indian) hands ( and also the balls of our netas,leadership, even RAW & Military,having had access to their drug running, human trafficking, smuglling and kick backs, oh by the way Indians are the largest account holders in Swiss banks with I am told second largest amounts stashed away)
When the brahmos fly, so will the "ghauris" and prithvis, following which agnis and askashs might get in the act too.
The point is, there is almost no null-space left for unescalating punishing action to exist in, with the exception of covert action to prolong the escalation whilst providing at least a fixed-deposit rate of return. If we listen to those in power, they are saying that we've lost that "intelligence" too.
This tamasha is all we have left to start with. Because it takes years to cultivate the means to activate covert action for moments like this, that is out thanks to Gujral. Because the escalation to full war is undesirable (read PM Singh's responses, unless he's keeping us in the dark, too), lobbing Brahmos will not happen, unless everyone is convinced the ceasefire will come in a few days thence. So, with America's blessing, we might be allowed to shots and Pak one shot, and its elections!
We know, however, that will do no good, for it is a sure way to motivate another jihadi action downstream, say a year before the next elections. The cycle continues, but if you were a dirty politician, wouldn't you be looking for a respectable out like this?
The only thing respectable thing left then is to go "out of the box". Send troops to Afghanistan or shoot quietly in Siachen. That such a proposal was even under consideration is, although overdue, heartwarming.
I think this government doesn't know what to do. I am convinced they want to do something, like the rest of us, but they don't know what to do. I will bet people here a $ that if we cannot come up with a successful strategy on BRF to counter and avenge what has happened or grip on Pak unambiguously. If we can't see that "game" to its conclusion with a winning strategy, neither will anyone in GoI. The americans momentarily gave us the out, but they are managing us now, so let's wait for what our partners suggest. We did give the evidence to Pak, like they requested. Boucher wins a nishan-e-bakbak for that.
S
Last edited by samuel on 06 Jan 2009 23:18, edited 1 time in total.
nice to read ur reply.educative.u mean to say that patience is the key?if im not wrong.but how long?
Hello Bhai log
There are 3 months more before the General Elections, perhaps we can expect a befitting reply to the enemy before that?
Till then I say, "Jai Hind" to the jailors of Arthur Road jail....
My 2 pence here... keep Kasab as a smelly wet sock in face of the rest of the world who does not believe us.
Our window of opportunity is very short, use it or lose it!
JAI HIND!!!
how can they do that? their RSS feeds from firangie deshie is all jammed up! and their simple rope can be cut off in 3 months flat. One of the reasons, pakis fear of opposition in India coming to powers and doing another Pok3 or make them do so first, while ours do a NFT.
the disconnection is more in aam junta who rather questions on crisis rather manages the musharrafs where it ought to be. our voting system is wrong.
What I've never understood is why this angst over Gujral pulling RAW out of covert ops in Pakistan.
Did the Northern Alliance not sweep to victory post 911? Were India and Russia not fully engaged with them during this period? Was Ahmed Shah Masood not brought to an Indian Military Hospital?
Did not a "patrotic" BJP government follow after Gujral's tenure was over. IIRC the BJP ruled well for nearly two terms - ample time don't you think for any errors comitted by a former PM to be undone and repaired.
No, RAW's inputs were clearly present here about lashkar's maritime training - down to their strike team having left Karachi to commit the act. The Navy was asked to intercept a target ship which was placed well within Pakistani waters according to the coordinates given to them. So precise was the information to India !
So if someone says there has still been intelligence failure, or that our assets within pakistan have been lost, pleas explain to me how. I am not drawing conclusions from here on.
My understanding is that Gujral betrayed assets in TSPA and parts of TSP where it is hard to penetrate today. The jihadis are from a certain set of areas and we need assets there. Assets in Afghanistan only go so far. Assets in TSP's heartland are of a different order of magnitude.
If we can push the border up to Skardu, as I had requested when this thing started, then we will have repaid for Kargil. We can pay the remaining debt all the way to Mumbai opportunistically, by sewing PoK and creating a NW corridor to CAR, and reclaiming Kashmir. We will be done with Pak then. Perhaps the remainder will need a frontier corps coming south east from Afghanistan and it makes good sense to plan for that now, as they might be.
In the meanwhile, LeT types on our list need to start disappearing with 10-th page tiny obituaries being hotly discussed on BRF.
India should have given these "dossier"s to NYTimes/WashPost/ToI/etc. What use is it to give it to Bush/Gordon/etc, these guys perhaps know more than the GoI.
A test question to any Indian citizens here : Try getting a copy of the "dossier" from the GOI - I mean the one they are so desperately trying to give away free to the phoreeners.
narayanan wrote:My always reliable sources tell me that Pak Army is pulling out of Skardu in a big haste, and that they saw even F-16s being pulled down the highway towards Gilgit. Also some large trucks hauling very heavy equipment, and some heavily guarded shipments. Balwaristan people going door to door canvassing for support in the coming events.
See, in the 1990s, Skardu air base was where the nuke-bomb-armed F-16s were kept. IAF trained all the time to fly through the canyons to hit Skardu hard because everything depended on taking out these F-16s. But in 1999, they just did not try to fly, and by now apparently they are kaput, since the nukes were taken away in 2002, up the Karakoram Hwy. No engines.
So rendering Skardu totally kaput is very high on Indian strategic targets list. Once that is gone, Gilgit becomes untenable as well, and the lifeline to Dragonstan is cut.
So now Pakistan, instead of looking like a dog on its hind feet begging, now looks like a headless dog.
As for things coming down the river from Skardu, apparently there are a lot of Paki corpses coming down or lying by the side of the river.
Hope enviorenmental concerns are taken care of . Pukes discharging hot air can met the surrounding glaciers. Dont blame Indians if flood and drought happen repeatedly in Pakjab because of kuffar glacier warming .
The MEA statement on this "dossier" appears to be put together by a chaprasi hung up on the word material:-
The Foreign Secretary has handed over this morning to the Pakistan High Commissioner in New Delhi material linking the Mumbai attack of 26 – 29 November, 2008 to elements in Pakistan. Our High Commissioner in Islamabad is doing the same with the Pakistan Foreign Office. This material includes:
• Material from the interrogation .....
This material is linked to elements in Pakistan. It is our expectation ....
what is more credible than kasab claiming to be a paki!.. ask his parents to visit him and see him in the jail.
lets bomb the musharrafs and kayanis outta pakis, and say they can't claim it came from India.. they need to show some credible evidence.
prepare for the second strikes as well.
btw, can someone post his mug shot? or youtube
--
now pakis going UN {Islamabad threatens UN action} on kasab!! what in the world are they thinking!! can't ND understand, the world is seeking action per whats up in gaza..
gaza may not have reasons.. but we have.. billion reasons to attack pakistan.
Hey gaza has its reasons.
There is no other way the Israelis will react to open aggression. Their circumstances in the middle east are different to ours. The size of the two nations is different. If they don't practice zero tolerance, they will have zero nation left to protect after a while.
On MEA website, has this been posted already? The Foreign Secretary has given some hard hitting answers, debunked the joint terror mechanism and said there is no distinction between state and non state actors. Bravo!
Briefing by Foreign Secretary on Mumbai Terror Attack 05/01/2009
(1800 hours on 5 January 2009)
Foreign Secretary: Thank you for coming.
As you know, earlier today we handed over to the Pakistani High Commissioner here in New Delhi , and in Islamabad to the Pakistani Foreign Secretary, material that has emerged from the investigation into the terrorist attacks in Mumbai. This material includes material from the interrogation of Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, the Pakistani national who is in our police custody; details of the terrorists’ communication links with elements in Pakistan during the Mumbai attack; details of the recovered weapons and equipment and of other articles that we have recovered from the boat, from the sites where the attack took place; and details of data that we have recovered from the GPS instrument and the satellite telephones that we have recovered. This material, as you know, is linked to elements in Pakistan .
We have told the Pakistani authorities that it is our expectation that as Pakistan is obliged to, under the various bilateral commitments which she has undertaken and the international commitments that she has, that Pakistan will investigate this material, follow the evidence wherever it may lead, and share the results with us and extend to us legal assistance so that we can bring the perpetrators to Indian justice. We have also said that we would hope that Pakistan would implement her various commitments not to permit terrorism in any manner from any territory under its control against India .
We have also today begun the process of briefing friendly governments. The External Affairs Minister has written a letter to his counterparts around the world along with a detailed brief on the events in Mumbai. We started the process of briefing friendly governments today in Delhi by briefing the representatives of countries who had lost their nationals in the Mumbai attacks, this afternoon at 3:30 in MEA. We will continue this process with other friendly governments tomorrow.
We have also the Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Mr. He Yafei in Delhi at this moment for discussions on bilateral relations, on the preparations for the meeting of G20 leaders in London in April on the financial crisis. And naturally he briefed us on his discussions in Pakistan where he was the end of last month. And we also briefed him on the material that is with us that has emerged from our investigation.
I must make it clear that this is still an ongoing investigation and it is not as though this investigation is over. But we feel that we are at the point where it is clear that the crime might have been committed in India but the conspiracy behind the crime was in Pakistan , and hence our request to Pakistan to fulfill her commitments to us. It is also our feeling that terrorism of this sort is a threat to the entire international community. And this is why we are briefing our friends because it is really time that the world acted to eliminate this threat.
I will be very happy to answer any Questions which you might have.
Question (Ms Sara Sidner, CNN): How long has this evidence been in the hands of Indian authorities? And is this the first time that Pakistan is getting hard evidence from India ?
Foreign Secretary: As far as the Mumbai attack is concerned, this is evidence that we have developed since the attack began on the 26th of November. Bits and pieces of it have been developed over time. At that time itself we had mentioned to Pakistan that all the indications that we had were that the attack had come from Pakistan. The External Affairs Minister had spoken to his counterpart on the 28th (November), we had then made a demarche on the 1st (December). We had high level contacts as well. The Pakistani side had informed us that they were undertaking their own investigation, and that they would see what they found on their side. We have now shared with them some of the results of what we have discovered as a result of, as I said, an ongoing investigation. And we would hope that they would now follow these leads in Pakistan and see where they lead, and help us to bring the perpetrators to justice.
Question (Ms Sara Sidner, CNN): Is this the first time they have had evidence?
Foreign Secretary: We have given evidence in previous cases. For instance, after the attack on our Embassy in Kabul we held a special session of the Joint Anti Terror mechanism where we had given some evidence to Pakistan which suggested that there were elements in Pakistan who were involved in that attack. In several cases in the past we have shared evidence. But we are hoping that the previous pattern is not repeated in this case.
Question (Ms Sara Sidner, CNN): So, this is the first time since 26th November.
Foreign Secretary: I think you have to give somebody else a chance.
Question (Mr Javed Khan, Pakistan Broadcasting Corporation): Mr. Menon, the evidence which you just mentioned, like Thuraya telephone calls and the GPS data, was there right with the Indian authorities in the beginning. Why India did not share it with Pakistan then?
Secondly, why has India not responded to Pakistan ’s offer of a joint investigation into the Mumbai incident?
Foreign Secretary: I think we needed to be sure of what we had collected. We needed to go through the process of investigation. This is normal. I mean the Pakistan side was doing what they could on their side, we had to do what we did on our side. We have now shared what we have found with Pakistan . We would expect that Pakistan would do the same in return, and would share what they have.
You asked why we have not chosen to respond to the idea of a joint investigation. I think the law is quite clear. Jurisdiction rests with the country whose territory the crime is committed on. In this case it is a crime in India with a conspiracy in Pakistan . So, we will investigate in India ; we expect Pakistan to investigate in Pakistan , and to render legal assistance to us, as she is obliged to under the various Conventions that exist. We have existing mechanisms. But so far as the history of attacks shows they have not been successful in preventing such attacks. So, I think it is naturally incumbent on us now to try and make sure that they work. And we hope to do so.
Question (Mr Simon Daniel, Reuters):Do you have solid evidence of the complicity of current or recently former members of the ISI in these attacks? And have you presented such evidence to Pakistan ?
Foreign Secretary: We will follow the evidence wherever it leads. It is hard to believe that something of this scale that took so long in the preparation, and of this nature which amounts really to a commando attack, could occur without anybody anywhere in the establishment knowing that this was happening. And that actually beggars the imagination. Wherever the evidence leads we will follow it. But we are at this stage, as I said, in an ongoing investigation. We are not going to say yes or no, this is where the line ends. We cannot, because we still have to continue with this investigation, and most of it now has to be done in Pakistan .
Question (Mr Sanjay Majumder, BBC News): Mr. Menon, will you accept the results of any investigation conducted by Pakistan , or you are also asking for your own investigation teams? And since you are sharing this information with other governments, are you hoping that organizations such as the FBI will be given access based on the information you have provided and can, therefore, carry out some investigations on your behalf in Pakistan?
Foreign Secretary: You are asking me for several blank cheques, all at the same time. I cannot say whether I will accept something that I have not even seen, that has not even been offered, that I have not heard of! This is purely hypothetical. Every part of your Question is hypothetical. So, please do not ask me to say, “Yes, I will accept; I will not accept”, what somebody may at some stage in the future offer or give me.
Question (Mr Sanjay Majumder, BBC News): But you said you asked for legal assistance. Can you amplify what kind of legal assistance? Would that mean access to your investigation teams?
Foreign Secretary: I think there is an accepted international legal obligation to render legal assistance. Under the SAARC convention it is quite clear what kind of legal assistance that is. It extends up to and it includes extradition.
Question (Mr Mathew Rosenberg, Associated Press): Pakistan has arrested several senior Lashkar leaders and cracked down on the charities that are linked to Lashkar. What other concrete steps does Pakistan need to take to satisfy India ? And you mentioned bringing the perpetrators to Indian justice. Does that mean that India wants Pakistan to hand them over to be tried here in India ?
Foreign Secretary: As of now I have your word that some people have been arrested. Nobody has told us this officially yet from Pakistan . Secondly, we have seen a similar thing when Lashkar was declared a terrorist organization after the attack on the Indian Parliament in December 2001. And within three months they were back in business. Jamaat-ud-Dawa, which was declared a terrorist organization early in December, is still functioning as far as we can see. It is updating its website. Several of its organizations are still working. So, frankly, what we have seen so far does not impress us. Our goals are quite clear. What we want, as I said over and over again, is to bring the perpetrators to Indian justice, and to guarantee that there are no terrorist attacks from Pakistan on India . I think that is our goal.
Question (Mr Mathew Rosenberg, Associated Press): Does Indian justice mean being tried in India ?
Foreign Secretary: Where else is there Indian justice?
Question (Ms Caren, ABC News): I just want a follow up. You said on 11/28 and the 1st of December that there was contact. Is that regarding evidence where you were able to say we have this evidence, and now this is the official evidence you are giving? So, there has been communication back and forth regarding what you found and what you burnt?
Foreign Secretary: Let us be careful in the words we use. We have given them material that has come out from our investigation.
Question (Ms Caren, ABC News): Along the way.
Foreign Secretary: Evidence is what a court accepts under the law. There is an Evidence Act and so on. So that is not a word I will use right now. What I would use right now is we have given them the material that has come out of the investigation that leads to Pakistan . All of the material we have given them is linked to Pakistan , elements in Pakistan . We expect them to investigate, look into it, share the results with us. And we will take it from there.
Question (Ms Parrull Malhotra, CNN-IBN): Do you see any value in Indian investigators Questioning Pakistani suspects in Pakistan ? Secondly, your thoughts on the FBI not getting access to suspects and places?
Foreign Secretary: Same Question, same answer. Hypothetical. As of now, all we have seen is denial or confusing, contradictory statements. So, whether or not Indians go there, who else gives us what information, frankly, all that is hypothetical.
Question (Mr Rajiv Sharma, Free Press Journal): Though there is no extradition treaty between India and Pakistan, would you say that it is really not so much mundane because Pakistan is signatory to so many international conventions including some UN Resolutions which demand that any terrorist crime committed on the soil of a country, that obligates that country to extradite the suspects behind?
Secondly, does the evidence you have shared with Pakistan include the DNA samples of Kasab?
Foreign Secretary: Our understanding of the law is quite clear that under several international instruments, with or without a bilateral extradition treaty, in terrorist offences of this nature Pakistan is obliged to extradite the criminals. Otherwise, if we were told - as we have heard some people say - that Pakistan will never extradite anybody, then in effect we are saying that a Pakistani national who commits a crime in India and manages to get back to Pakistan has immunity. That is what it would amount to. Our understanding, for instance, is that under the SAARC Convention against Terrorism there is an obligation to extradite. In fact, that convention was written the way it is in order to avoid the fact of a bilateral demand, and it actually makes some multilateral obligation of it. And that is why that Convention was written the way it was. There are other international instruments as well, and we can mention a long list of them. But that is our understanding of the legal situation.
Question (Mr Rajiv Sharma, Free Press Journal): Have DNA samples of Kasab been given?
Foreign Secretary: No, we have not. But it is available; we have made it known to them that it is available.
Question (Mr Manish Chand, INS): Sir, you just spoke about several mechanisms not working in the past. Now what about this Anti Terror Mechanism? In the light of what has happened, denials and the rest coming from Pakistan after Mumbai attacks, are we planning to continue with this Anti Terror Mechanism or is there a move to scrap it?
Also, when you talk about some people in the Pakistani establishment being in the know about the Mumbai attacks who are you referring to? Are we talking about the ISI here?
Foreign Secretary: As far as mechanisms are concerned, frankly, we are no longer interested in words, in mechanisms. We want actual action against the perpetrators. I think if we are to believe in sincerity and to see a way forward. I think what we expect now is action. We have gone through this process, for a long period, of showing evidence, of going through the various mechanisms. So, as far as we can see, the answer is not whether we scrap a mechanism, or add a new mechanism, or tinker with all this. This is form rather than substance. The substance of it is we would like action on the material that we have shared with Pakistan so that we can bring the perpetrators to justice. That is it.
Question (Mr Amit Barua, The Hindustan Times): Mr. Menon, since the 26/11 attacks, how would you assess the response of key players in the international community? There has been a lot of public support, but do you think that enough is being done by them to actually tell Pakistan that they need to be serious this time? We had a similar situation after the attack on our Embassy in Kabul when there was a lot of support and a lot of statements were made, some meetings took place. But do you believe that the international community is doing a sufficient amount to press Pakistan on this occasion?
Foreign Secretary: I think we have seen an unprecedented level of international support and the international response has been very heartening from our point of view. The international community responded immediately by declaring Jamaat-ud-Dawa a terrorist organization. The kind of support and detailed assistance that we have received from several friendly countries is actually very heartening. Whether this is sufficient to induce Pakistan to do what she should, I do not know. That frankly is between them and Pakistan . That is not for me to say. I think we have made it clear what we expect. But the primary responsibility here - because the links lead back into Pakistan , they do not lead into other countries – is for Pakistan to act. We will continue to work with our friends in the international community to see that that happens to the extent it can.
Question (Mr Siddharth Varadarajan, The Hindu): Mr. Menon, does the material that you have handed over to Pakistan include the names of handlers or people at the other end of the telephone line who either are in or have recently been part of the ISI?
Secondly, are you not interested in access to people arrested either now or in the future? For example, you are saying it is a hypothetical Question but, there is an announcement by the Pakistani Government that bank accounts have been frozen. Would you like to see for example details of some of these accounts, what have the recent transactions been? Have you made a request of this kind to the Pakistani authorities?
Foreign Secretary: It is quite clear that what we would like from the Pakistani authorities is all the information related to this crime. So, it is not a Question of our making a specific request for one bit of information or another. We want to know how this conspiracy was formed; how it was carried out; how the training, the planning, the organization and the actual handling which went on right through the crime was done. That is what we would like to know. We would like to know it all. So, it is not just one part or the other. And that general request is available. That is why the general request for legal assistance. I think that is quite clear because it includes everything, including the results of investigation, but also goes beyond that all the way up to extradition, as I said. From what we have given them, frankly I cannot answer where those leads end or how far they go.
Question (Mr Siddharth Varadarajan, The Hindu): Have you named the people?
Foreign Secretary: We have named those people whom we identified on the basis of the interrogation or on other bases that we knew of.
Question (Mr Siddharth Varadarajan, The Hindu): Have you named the ISI or Lashkar?
Foreign Secretary: Frankly, the relationship that Lashkar-e-Toiba has enjoyed with the ISI in the past is a matter of history. It is a very fine line to draw between who is ISI, who is not ISI, and so on. So, I do not want to get into saying so and so is, so and so is not, so and so did, so and so worked for them, so and so did not work form them, so and so was supported, I do not want to get into that at all. As I said, we will follow the investigation wherever it leads. And whoever is responsible for this, I think, has to pay.
Question (Mr Chris Morris, BBC News): Just a follow up on that previous Question there. The fact you say that it is hard to believe that there were no elements in the state involved suggests to me that you have strong suspicions but no concrete proof. Is that correct?
Foreign Secretary: I am not getting into the quality of the proof. I am not getting into a judgment on which bits of the proof are strong, weak. I am not getting into that at all. We have our own procedures for making evidence under the law in India available. So, that we will have to continue to follow. And that frankly is not a judgment that we in the External Affairs Ministry take. That is something that is a part of the internal legal process in India . So, I am not going to go into saying this is clinching, this is not clinching, something else leads somewhere. As I said, it is an ongoing investigation; it will go on; we will follow it where it leads. But I am not going to go into that.
Question (Mr Chris Morris, BBC News): But do you think the distinction between, rather an ugly phrase, non-state actors and state actors is an important one?
Foreign Secretary: We do not think there is such a thing as non-state actors. Even the so-called non-state actors function within a state, are citizens of a state. And certainly we find that distinction almost impossible to believe.
Question (Inaudible): Again, just to clarify what you are asking for. In the material that you have presented today, are you asking for Pakistan to extradite individual suspects? If so, how many, and are they current or retired members of the ISI? And, if not, what exactly are you asking Pakistan to do?
Foreign Secretary: Ditto. Same answer. It is hypothetical. I have told you what we asked. I told you we asked for legal assistance; we asked for assistance in bringing the perpetrators to Indian justice; we have also asked for credible action to guarantee that no terrorist attacks from Pakistan take place against India . The rest, all your other Questions, are contained within that.
Question (Inaudible): But are you asking for extradition of the individual suspects?
Foreign Secretary: I told you I am not going to get into that. We will see where we go with this, with the answers that we get. So far we have not got any answers at all.
Question: Pakistan has also proposed to send a high-level delegation to Pakistan to discuss all these issues. India has rejected that?
Foreign Secretary: We are not quite sure what purpose that serves. First I think we need to see credible proof of sincerity. This is not an issue of words, of discussions, of a delegation, of another mechanism. As I said before, these are form, but they beg the substance of real action.
Question (Ms Sheela Bhatt, Rediff.Com): Sir, there was a general perception after the Mumbai attack almost for a month that Pakistan is in a denial mode. Do you think that kind of an attitude generally is still persisting?
Secondly, you have already briefed us about how from all over the world support is coming to India about this issue. Particularly I would like to know what kind of a role Iran and China are ready to play to pursue Pakistan to understand India ’s expectations on this issue. Lastly, I would like to …
Foreign Secretary: How many Questions? Hang on.
Question (Ms Sheela Bhatt, Rediff.Com): Sri Lanka issue is important. I just wanted to request you to please address that. Thank you.
Foreign Secretary: You have asked two Questions. One is about international reactions. I do not want to go into how individual countries have reacted. Today when we discussed this, I think we have, with the Chinese Vice Foreign Minister for instance, we also discussed our cooperation, our counter terrorism cooperation; and both of us stressed how important it was. We have been, as I said, heartened by the response that we have got across the board from all the countries. The Iranian Vice Foreign Minister was here a week and a half ago where again we discussed this issue. What we heard from him was a clear condemnation of what happened in Mumbai or of the terrorism that was involved. I think the world is quite clear on where it stands on this kind of terrorist attack. And I think the world was horrified by the scale and the nature of this attack because it really was of a level of barbarity which I think was pretty well unprecedented. But I do not want to go into what each country will do. We would hope that certainly this kind of opinion in the world will also translate into encouragement to Pakistan to do the right thing. And that would be our expectation. That is really why we are briefing our friends around the world.
To respond to the other Question of yours, I think I have made it clear to you, and we have made it clear to Pakistan also what we expect and what we would hope would happen in the future. There might have been denial in the past. We have been told by Pakistan that they are ready to cooperate with us. But the proof of the pudding is in the eating. We would like to see some real cooperation.
Question (Mr Ranjeet Kumar, Navbharat Times): There were nine other terrorists who came from Pakistan who were killed. Do you have information about them? Have you shared information about them with Pakistan and other countries?
Foreign Secretary: We have shared information.
Question (Mr Ranjeet Kumar, Navbharat Times): Can you share it with us?
Foreign Secretary: As I told you, the release of information in India into the public domain is something that follows the normal legal process. That is not something we do.
Question (Mr Srinjoy Chowdhury, Times Now): You have given this information to the Pakistani Government. Now you cannot wait forever for a reply. What kind of timeframe are you looking at? What is your expectation? When do you expect a reaction?
Secondly, you said that you expect an investigation on the other side. Has there been an investigation? Have you been told anything about it? If there is an investigation, what is the result? It has been five weeks.
Foreign Secretary: We were told by the Pakistan Government in December that they were carrying out their own investigation. As for a timeframe, we would like to have the results as quickly as possible. We would like to see real action as soon as possible.
Question (Mr Yuri Solonin, Parlamentskaya Gazeta , Russia ): Is the Indian Government or the Indian Ministry of External Affairs going to strengthen cooperation in the frame of Joint Anti Terrorism Groups with the major players of international affairs? If so, in what way are you going maybe to strengthen the sharing of intelligence information, or maybe to provide some joint exercises against terrorism and so on?
Foreign Secretary: As of now we do cooperate with several countries in counter terrorism measures in various ways. Some of them you have mentioned yourself. One of the ways in which we have strengthened this actually since Mumbai is in a much quicker, much more detailed exchange of information, which has been going on. We will talk to our partners and see what they are comfortable with, what we are comfortable with, and we will certainly look forward working with the international community because we think this is a threat to the entire international community. It is not just a threat to India . The way this has been done, the manner in which it has been prepared, and the ideology that goes behind it, I think suggests that this is a threat to the entire international community. So, certainly we will strengthen the ways in which we work with our friends and partners.
Question (Mr. Manish Chand, INS): Sir, what is the Indian stand now about Prabhakaran? Have you heard anything latest?
Foreign Secretary:Our position is quite clear that there are several aspects to the Sri Lankan problem, and that no one of them is sufficient to solve the problem. There is no military solution to this problem, for instance, no matter how the military situation might fluctuate. One side might be up, down, today, tomorrow, whatever. But that is neither here nor there. There is a political aspect which needs work because until there is a political understanding within the framework of a united Sri Lanka , within which all the communities in Sri Lanka are comfortable, you cannot speak of a political solution of the situation in Sri Lanka . There is a third aspect, which is a direct result of the military conflict and the absence of a political solution, which is the humanitarian problem for which, as you know, we have been working in the last several months as the fighting is intensified, to try and get relief to supplies and to try and get help to the civilian population who is caught up in this conflict. That we will continue to do. And we will continue to work with all those who are willing to do so, to try and help those poor civilians who are trapped in this zone of conflict. Quite frankly, the military situation might change, might vary. But there is more to the situation in Sri Lanka than just the military situation. I think that is very important.
On Prabhakaran our views are well known. I think we have consistently sought his extradition to face charges here, to face trial here actually. And that continues. That is a request we have renewed repeatedly.
Question (Mr Manish Chand, INS): Mr. Menon, the Chinese Government and the state-controlled media there have been silent on the complicity of Pakistan based elements in the Mumbai attacks. This time around in your conversation with the Chinese Vice Foreign Minister, did you see a change in the attitude? What are the Chinese telling us?
Foreign Secretary: I think we have shared some material with the Chinese authorities as well. EAM has written to his Chinese counterpart as well. I do not think there is any denial of the fact that there is terrorism and that it is coming out of Pakistan . I do not see that. What I do see is an understanding that this is a problem which affects, from their point of view, their relationships with two countries. Today the Vice Foreign Minister described India as a strategic partner. And he described Pakistan is a very close and important friend of China . So, I heard from him a natural concern that how this would affect both.
He also made it quite clear that on the terrorism issue China stands very firmly with us; looks forward to cooperating with us against terrorism; and that we will make sure that our joint institutions - we have a Joint Working Group for instance on counter terrorism with China - work effectively.
Address by Prime Minister at CM's Conference
06/01/2009
“We last met to discuss internal security issues in December 2007, a little over a year ago. The twelve months that have passed since then have been a difficult period for us. The security situation has, if anything, become even more complex. Many predictions made a year ago have unfortunately turned out to be true. In some cases the scale and magnitude of terrorist attacks appear to have been stepped up exponentially. In the prevailing circumstances we cannot afford to take a partial or segmented view. A holistic approach to our security concerns is definitely called for.
During the past year, we faced a severe challenge from terrorist groups operating from outside our country. Many of them act in association with hostile Intelligence Agencies in these countries. The attempt has been to exploit our vulnerabilities, and at times they do succeed as is evident from the terrorist attack in Mumbai. Our problems are compounded by the fact that we have a highly unpredictable and uncertain security environment in our immediate neighbourhood. The Governments in some of our neighbouring countries are very fragile in nature. The more fragile a Government, the more it tends to act in an irresponsible fashion. Pakistan ’s responses to our various demarches on terrorist attacks is an obvious example.
We face multi-dimensional challenges of different kinds, but the most serious threats are those posed by Terrorism, Left Wing Extremism and insurgency in the North East. Left Wing Extremism is primarily indigenous and home-grown. Terrorism, on the other hand, is largely sponsored from outside our country, mainly Pakistan , which has utilized terrorism as an instrument of State policy. Insurgency in the North-East exploits disparities in income and wealth but it is also sustained by the sanctuaries provided to the leaders of insurgency movements in the neighbouring countries. There are, hence, fundamental differences in the way we need to view the internal security challenge and deal with the three threats that I had mentioned.
In the previous meeting it had been mentioned that terrorists were enlarging the canvas of threats. Increasingly, their concentration was on attacking economic, infrastructure, and iconic targets, apart from political, military and security ones. Mention had also been made of the fact that the sea route was now being exploited and explored as an alternative to land routes. It had, therefore, been suggested that there should be greater vigilance along our coast line and better monitoring of maritime activity in our territorial waters. The terrorists who carried out the attack on Mumbai on November 26, 2008 used the sea route, and managed to evade our coastal surveillance.
Calculating and responding to security challenges of this nature is in itself a complex exercise at the best of times. It becomes even more challenging in the circumstances I have just now mentioned. Our security calculus is a matrix of many imponderable factors, but there are two fundamental and underlying aspects, i.e., protecting the territorial integrity of the country and ensuring our internal security.
A strong sense of nationhood is important to withstand both these types of threats. Our nation is clearly united in our determination to defeat both external as well as internal security challenges. Our determination and sense of nationhood derives from our inheritance of a great historical experience of a multi-ethnic, multi-religious, multi-caste and multi-lingual society. To-day, even as Pakistan engages in whipping up war hysteria, our nation remains steadfastly united and, if anything, the process of national consolidation is becoming stronger.
Dealing with internal security problems does not alter this dynamic. The situation may appear challenging and it is challenging but it is by no means beyond control. Concerns may exist that our defence mechanisms to thwart the numerous threats are inadequate. There may be criticism that the range of the instruments that we possess to deal with internal security threats, are not sufficiently sophisticated. Clearly, there is need to review the effectiveness of our set up for the collection of technical signalling and human intelligence. The training and equipment provided to our security forces also requires a careful review. I will admit that a great deal more can, and needs to, be done. Both the Centre and the State Governments must attend to this national task with speed, efficiency and utmost commitment.
Our external policies have been dictated by a desire to have a supportive neighbourhood. Unfortunately, we cannot choose our neighbours, and some countries like Pakistan have in the past encouraged and given sanctuary to terrorists and other forces who are antagonistic to India . We have tried to minimize the impact of such hostility by erecting certain defences. We have fenced our border along the Line of Control in Jammu and Kashmir , from where the vast majority of the infiltrations into India tended to take place. We are currently fencing our border with Bangladesh , from where also a number of infiltrations have been reported.
Consequent upon this, those in charge of the terrorist infrastructure in Pakistan have resorted to other stratagems to infiltrate terrorists into India . Infiltration is occurring via Nepal and from Bangladesh , though it has not totally ceased via the Line of Control in J&K. We are aware that the sea route is another option that is now being exercised. A few interceptions have taken place, though we failed to intercept the 10 Pakistani terrorists who came by sea from Karachi on November 26.
The terrorist attack in Mumbai in November last year was clearly carried out by a Pakistan-based outfit, the Lashkar-e-Taiba. On the basis of the investigations carried out, including the Agencies of some foreign countries whose nationals were killed in the attack, there is enough evidence to show that, given the sophistication and military precision of the attack it must have had the support of some official agencies in Pakistan .
We are aware of the existence of different concentric circles of terrorism which impact on our security. The Mumbai terrorist attack fell into the category of one carried out exclusively by a foreign based outfit. There are other concentric circles of terrorism that often involve a combination of external forces backed by internal elements. There are still others which are essentially indigenous in character.
Recent patterns of terrorist incidents also suggest that increasingly the attacks have a pan-Indian and trans-national aspect. The terrorists are able to fashion new techniques and employ new skills. There is growing emphasis on ‘mass casualty attacks’. Terrorist communications have become state-of-the-art. Use of the Internet and Voice Over Internet Protocol connectivity, gives the terrorists greater anonymity and makes detection difficult for the authorities.
Attacks today are again less random than previously. In the case of Mumbai, a definite link can be discerned between our economic and security interests. Targetting of foreigners, specially from the West, was obviously intended to convey an impression that India was unsafe as a destination for the West and Western investments. We need to effectively counter this impression. We need to ensure that another major terrorist attack does not take place on our soil. We must implement the policy of ‘Zero Tolerance of Terrorism’ with total commitment.
Few countries have suffered so frequently or faced so much violence at the hands of terrorists as our country. During the past year, there have been terrorist attacks in Delhi , Hyderabad , Bangalore , Jaipur, Ahmedabad, Surat , Assam , Mumbai and some places in U.P. and these show higher levels of sophistication with each attack.
What makes terrorism particularly threatening at this moment is the impression of vulnerability combined with the display of greater sophistication in techniques and methodologies of terrorist outfits. The challenges before us are to demonstrate that we have both the capability as well as the sophisticated instrumentalities to anticipate and overcome the shifts and changes in terrorist methods. We cannot, therefore, afford to conceptualize narrowly. We must not react merely to immediate events.
This is the underlying message contained in the Home Minister’s letter inviting you to this Meeting. It is important at this juncture to demonstrate our combined will, and that we are effectively galvanizing the internal security system to deal with future terrorist attacks. Technology is empowering non-state actors across the globe and it is necessary for us to come up with a comprehensive strategy that combines the best of technological and human capabilities within the country to defeat terrorism in all its manifestations.
The Home Minister has already outlined a number of steps that have been taken in recent weeks to erect additional mechanisms to counter future terrorist attacks. The main message is that we need to break down barriers to information-sharing between the various agencies.
What I would add is that we need better intelligence and perhaps, more importantly, sophistcated assessment and analysis of the intelligence that is available. Complaints are often heard that the intelligence provided by the Agencies is not actionable. All intelligence produced is actionable, though it may not always be specific. It depends on the capability and ingenuity of those who assess the information to further develop and convert the fragmentary pieces of intelligence into a complete whole and for those who have to act on it to possibly pursue each and every lead.
Getting information early in time is vitally important and we need to encourage the setting up of an elaborate information system at the village, block and district level to report on any and all untoward events and incidents. Mobile telephones today provide opportunities for easy communication. Even our fishermen out at sea can use mobile telephones to report any untoward incident in our territorial waters. We must understand that no counter-terrorist action can hope to succeed unless it is based on the cooperation of the community and hence the importance of an expanded community policing system in our country. I would request the Chief Ministers to personally attend to this vital task.
The information available from diverse sources, thereafter needs to be properly channelized to reach a common point such as the recently revitalized Multi-Agency Centre in Delhi for collation and analysis. It will, hence, be necessary to establish Centers locally, at the State and lower levels across the country, to collate all the available information which might have a bearing on a potential terrorist situation. Other countries which have a federal structure similar to ours, like the United States , do have such centers spread across the country to coordinate local level responses to terrorism.
A large empirical data base will not yield results without using techniques such as structured analytic methodologies to convert the mass of information into actionable intelligence. Applications such as Threat Assessment Modeling and Artificial Neural Networks will have to be added to the existing analytic techniques. Three Dimensional Modeling of Critical Infrastructure is a new aspect that needs to be introduced. In several situations, we could even think of a Virtual Operations Centre.
I recently had occasion to mention in Parliament that the time had come for us to establish a permanent Crisis Management Group to handle the fall-out of major terrorist attacks anywhere in our country. This is now being established. We have also begun the process of strengthening maritime security against asymmetric threats from the sea. We have coordinated measures to plug loopholes in regard to our air space. The process of augmenting and strengthening our counter-terrorist forces has also begun.
What we hope to achieve is closer scrutiny and attention as well as a more rapid response to new and emerging threats. Our aim is to achieve the concept of total security.
Additionally, I would here also like to refer to the danger from Left Wing Extremism. Naxalite groups do pose a challenge, though of a different nature. Left Wing Extremism has been in vogue for four decades now, but the danger is that over time the nature of the movement has substantially altered. From an ideologically driven movement it has been transformed into one in which the military ethos has become predominant. The CPI-Maoist is perhaps the only militant organization in the country which has its own Guerrilla Army, though, as yet, this is of modest proportions. It is perhaps the only militant body to-day which has a rigid organizational structure. They also have some rudimentary capabilities to manufacture arms. They show increasing sophistication in the way they carry out attacks. They also do not seem to have any dearth of new recruits to the movement.
Quite a few States in the country are affected by Left Wing Extremism, notably Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand, Orissa, Bihar and Andhra Pradesh. As the movement spreads, and becomes more energized and active, we must ponder deeply on how best to effectively deal with it. This is so, as the movement still retains a modicum of ideological appeal. It is still able to garner support from among members of Civil Society and Civil Liberties organizations. It still attracts sections of the youth. Choosing the right methods and adopting a proper strategy are therefore important so that the action we take does not give a greater fillip to the growth of the movement.
Finally, I would like to say that Terrorism should not be conceptualized solely in military terms. While taking all the measures necessary to prevent terrorist attacks, we must simultaneously ensure that the concept of terrorism is delegitimized through better investigation and superior intelligence. We must convince the world community that States that use terrorism as an instrument of foreign policy, must be isolated and compelled to abandon such tactics. We must engage vigorously in debates to press the point that ‘soft’ support for terrorism cannot any longer be endorsed. We must demonstrate that an alert pluralistic and secular society such as ours is the best defence against terrorist onslaughts. Terrorism, Naxalism and Insurgency in the North-East, Hon’ble Chief Ministers, constitute major challenges for our national security establishment. We need to mobilize all our wisdom, knowledge and experience to meet these challenges head on. I am confident that our nation has the resilience and will power to emerge victorious in this fight. I wish you all success in your deliberations.”
New Delhi
January 6, 2009
PM’s closing remarks at the Chief Minister's Conference on Internal Security
January 6, 2009, New Delhi
“Chidambaraji has admirably summed up the gist of the conclusion of this very important Conference and it remains for me to thank all the dignitaries, particularly the Hon’ble Chief Ministers, for their patience and for their valuable suggestions. These deliberations have been very fruitful indeed. I have no doubt that our country can now rest assured of our united intent to fight the scourge of terrorism in a resolute manner. I am particularly grateful to all of you, the premier political decision-makers of our country, for your well-informed inputs and for your valuable suggestions. These will be carefully looked into. I would request the Home Minister to pay special attention to the points raised by the Hon’ble Chief Ministers. Shri P. Chidambaram has been working hard after taking over his onerous responsibilities as Union Home Minister. I should like to record my deep appreciation for his dedication and for his commitment.
We have taken note of all the concerns expressed at this conference particularly regarding the role of the States in maintaining law and order in a vast country like India. Both the Home Minister and I would like to make it quite clear that all the anti-terror initiatives will be undertaken with the closest possible interaction with the state government and their apparatus. We do recognize that it is not possible to effectively fight terror without the whole-hearted cooperation of the police machinery at all levels. Perhaps my colleague Shri Chidambaram could think of setting up a Group of Officers to advise the Government about the various centre-state specific issues. If required, we will be prepared to carry out necessary amendments or frame appropriate rules to address the concerns identified. In the DGP’s Conference in November last year, I had suggested that a Standing Group of State DGPs should be constituted to facilitate consultations with the Centre. This should also be activated.
We have taken note of the concerns expressed at this Conference regarding the recent amendments to the Code of Criminal Procedure. We will carefully examine the matter for harmonizing these amendments with the provisions and intents of the National Investigating Agency Act and the Unlawful Activities (Amendment) Act. In case the harmonization of other important provisions of law regarding prevention of atrocities on minorities & weaker sections and the maintenance of law and order are required, this should also be done quickly. We would be ready with our response before the next session of Parliament.
We are aware of the need to properly integrate our intelligence system. I must compliment the Home Minister for his initiative on the Multi-Agency Centre. I would urge him to hold detailed meetings with all the Chief Ministers and as he has mentioned with senior officers, to further clarify the role of the Multi-Agency Centre. This will help early grounding.
On our part, we will spare no effort to deal with terrorist and insurgent groups operating from neighbouring countries. We are determined to put an end to terrorism sponsored from across the border with all the means at our command.
Chidambaramji has already responded to most of the vital issues all of you have raised. No doubt, over the coming weeks, he will also take suitable measures to address these concerns. I would urge you to take all required measures at your end so that we can deal with terrorism in a purposeful manner.
I understand that there is unanimity of thought and action on developing a nation-wide more integrated approach to countering terrorism.
All CMs are agreed that the changes made recently in laws relating to terrorism are necessary. Though of course, some CMs have proposed changes to make the law more effective to deal with terrorist acts. This will be considered.
There is similar consensus regarding the establishment of a National Investigation Agency. CMs have approved of such an agency to deal with terrorist actions, though some CMs have urged that this should be essentially limited to terrorism and not extended to other types of offences. This is precisely our intention and modalities regarding the functioning of the NIA would take this fact into account.
There is also agreement that no State is today insulated from terrorism and every State must therefore remain fully prepared to deal with a terrorist attack and coordinate its response in this respect.
A point was raised about the nexus between crime and terrorism. This is a vital aspect as there is close nexus between terrorist outfits, criminals and crime syndicates. Better tracking of crime and criminals will have a salutary impact on checking terrorist acts and both the Centre and the State Governments have to be alive to this reality.
Chief Ministers of coastal states have expressed concern about their vulnerability from terrorists using the sea route. We have taken note of this and a group is already working on creating an effective Coastal Command. This will work in close coordination with the coastal police to provide effective coastal security.
Many Chief Ministers have raised the issue of National Identity Cards for all citizens. This matter will be taken up urgently. Additionally, I agree that we should immediately take steps for providing GPS systems, vessel monitoring systems, transponders for all ships and boats, including fishing craft.
Every Chief Minister has stressed the need for improvement in intelligence gathering, streamlining of the mechanism for intelligence sharing, better analysis of the information gathering and conversion of this into actionable intelligence. I would add also that the State police and authorities need to follow up every lead that is provided, instead of taking the line that no actionable intelligence is being provided. Close cooperation with the Multi-Agency Centre and a two-way exchange of information and the development of appropriate speedy response mechanism I believe, would, go a long way in improving the situation on this vital front. With these words, I once again thank each one of Hon’ble CMs, Hon’ble Ministers and the officials for participation in this very important Conference.”
in 1945, Marshalls Koniev and Zhukov opened up across the Oder river with some 11,000 artillery pieces, firing away as fast as they could reload, as they started the process of ending the Nazi regime.
In 2009, Babu SSM and PM MMS have opened up with hajaar words.
From above post by kshrin, The Prime Minister said:
PM’s closing remarks at the Chief Minister's Conference on Internal Security
January 6, 2009, New Delhi
“Chidambaraji has admirably summed up the gist of the conclusion of this very important Conference and it remains for me to thank all the dignitaries, particularly the Hon’ble Chief Ministers, for their patience and for their valuable suggestions. These deliberations have been very fruitful indeed. I have no doubt that our country can now rest assured of our united intent to fight the scourge of terrorism in a resolute manner. I am particularly grateful to all of you, the premier political decision-makers of our country, for your well-informed inputs and for your valuable suggestions. These will be carefully looked into. I would request the Home Minister to pay special attention to the points raised by the Hon’ble Chief Ministers. Shri P. Chidambaram has been working hard after taking over his onerous responsibilities as Union Home Minister. I should like to record my deep appreciation for his dedication and for his commitment.
We have taken note of all the concerns expressed at this conference particularly regarding the role of the States in maintaining law and order in a vast country like India. Both the Home Minister and I would like to make it quite clear that all the anti-terror initiatives will be undertaken with the closest possible interaction with the state government and their apparatus. We do recognize that it is not possible to effectively fight terror without the whole-hearted cooperation of the police machinery at all levels. Perhaps my colleague Shri Chidambaram could think of setting up a Group of Officers to advise the Government about the various centre-state specific issues. If required, we will be prepared to carry out necessary amendments or frame appropriate rules to address the concerns identified. In the DGP’s Conference in November last year, I had suggested that a Standing Group of State DGPs should be constituted to facilitate consultations with the Centre. This should also be activated.
We have taken note of the concerns expressed at this Conference regarding the recent amendments to the Code of Criminal Procedure. We will carefully examine the matter for harmonizing these amendments with the provisions and intents of the National Investigating Agency Act and the Unlawful Activities (Amendment) Act. In case the harmonization of other important provisions of law regarding prevention of atrocities on minorities & weaker sections and the maintenance of law and order are required, this should also be done quickly. We would be ready with our response before the next session of Parliament.
We are aware of the need to properly integrate our intelligence system. I must compliment the Home Minister for his initiative on the Multi-Agency Centre. I would urge him to hold detailed meetings with all the Chief Ministers and as he has mentioned with senior officers, to further clarify the role of the Multi-Agency Centre. This will help early grounding.
On our part, we will spare no effort to deal with terrorist and insurgent groups operating from neighbouring countries. We are determined to put an end to terrorism sponsored from across the border with all the means at our command.
Chidambaramji has already responded to most of the vital issues all of you have raised. No doubt, over the coming weeks, he will also take suitable measures to address these concerns. I would urge you to take all required measures at your end so that we can deal with terrorism in a purposeful manner.
I understand that there is unanimity of thought and action on developing a nation-wide more integrated approach to countering terrorism.
All CMs are agreed that the changes made recently in laws relating to terrorism are necessary. Though of course, some CMs have proposed changes to make the law more effective to deal with terrorist acts. This will be considered.
There is similar consensus regarding the establishment of a National Investigation Agency. CMs have approved of such an agency to deal with terrorist actions, though some CMs have urged that this should be essentially limited to terrorism and not extended to other types of offences. This is precisely our intention and modalities regarding the functioning of the NIA would take this fact into account.
There is also agreement that no State is today insulated from terrorism and every State must therefore remain fully prepared to deal with a terrorist attack and coordinate its response in this respect.
A point was raised about the nexus between crime and terrorism. This is a vital aspect as there is close nexus between terrorist outfits, criminals and crime syndicates. Better tracking of crime and criminals will have a salutary impact on checking terrorist acts and both the Centre and the State Governments have to be alive to this reality.
Chief Ministers of coastal states have expressed concern about their vulnerability from terrorists using the sea route. We have taken note of this and a group is already working on creating an effective Coastal Command. This will work in close coordination with the coastal police to provide effective coastal security.
Many Chief Ministers have raised the issue of National Identity Cards for all citizens. This matter will be taken up urgently. Additionally, I agree that we should immediately take steps for providing GPS systems, vessel monitoring systems, transponders for all ships and boats, including fishing craft.
Every Chief Minister has stressed the need for improvement in intelligence gathering, streamlining of the mechanism for intelligence sharing, better analysis of the information gathering and conversion of this into actionable intelligence. I would add also that the State police and authorities need to follow up every lead that is provided, instead of taking the line that no actionable intelligence is being provided. Close cooperation with the Multi-Agency Centre and a two-way exchange of information and the development of appropriate speedy response mechanism I believe, would, go a long way in improving the situation on this vital front. With these words, I once again thank each one of Hon’ble CMs, Hon’ble Ministers and the officials for participation in this very important Conference.”
lets see how he implements the policy. The first order is to set the internal disorder straight. So the NIA is a purely and anti-terrorist agency.
If he diligently implements all these I will thank him and forgive his mumbleness.
samuel wrote:Did anyone read the dossier, yet?
Comments?
I read the dossier. The evidence looks quite clinching implicating the Paki piglets. Main evidence is GPS records of the boat travel from Karachi to Mumbai, telephone excerpts between the LeT pigs and the Paki pigs, items recovered from the boat which were all 'Made in Pakistan' products, Peshawar made guns, Paki made grenades and the Western Union transaction of Paki passport holding person with Callphonex VOIP company.
i doubt pak establishment even cared to open the dossier lifafa.they just threw it out in dustbin.coz they knew wats coming and they were already with their next step.as is becomes clear from their response with in 24hrs of receiving it.indian leaders/babu gladly walking the path laid for them by pakistan to get ambushed at last in diplomacy war.mind it we r not proving here to the world that pak establishment is not to be trusted but pak is questioning the creditability of india in the world.with all these changing statements coming from goi from top to bottom(pm to chaprasi level) everybody issuing conflicting statements.one day pm say pak govt.,isi r not involved then today he says pakistan state is involved its isi is involved.did MMS has any intelligence left?
