J & K news and discussion

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 11 Jan 2009 05:09

Rahul M wrote:
Interesting. Can you elaborate on the RAW's support to Geelani. Why would Raw be interested in that?
I'm not in a position to comment if R&AW is actually controlling geelani, but his going overboard with the "we are muslims and pakistanis" theme certainly discredited the separatist movement a great deal and the APHC too in the process.

My understanding has always been that the Geelani fraction supported a Sharia state or even the super muslim state khalifat. Hence his desire to merge with Pakistan (a feeling I think is shared by many Kashmiri Muslims). The JKLF fraction lean more towards secularism and want an independent state. I have never quite understood why thease people are allowed to live. I am shure they would have been dead if it was not in the interest of India. But never quite understood the logic. One that is can think of is a kind of a divide and rule strategy. By creating a split in the sepratist movement, the kashmiri public will sooner or later get fed up of.

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 11 Jan 2009 07:26

I too am surprised by the assertion that Geelani has been funded by RAW. That too when it comes from someone who has had a distinguished record of Army service including in Kashmir. I was hoping that Shri Ray C sir would at least provide us with a basis for his assertion. More so as he is a Moderator. I waited for a decent period of time before making this post.

More so, when other postors have been challenged or even banned for far less serious assertions. The RAW is a responsible state controlled entity of GOI. To make such an assertion in a public forum by such a personage is not in the best interest of India, BR or BRF.

I request Shri RayC sir to edit out this remark. Doing so will not in any way detract from the essence of his otherwise excellent post.

I know by this post, I am taking on the might of the powers that be here once again. But please understand that this is with the best interest of BR in mind.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 11 Jan 2009 15:53

Geelani in many ways is our useful idiot.

Doesn't in any way take away from the fact that he is also an idiot, period.

Everytime Geelani's opened his mouth and screamed jihad, khilafat, sharia, papistan paindabad etc..... the WKKs and their allies in dhimmedia could only squirm.

Geelani's statements have made many aam indians cautious about the HR/PR grievance industry that has of late been pushing for India to show magnanimity and give up kashmir to burnish its secular/democratic/neighborly credentials....

The fact that Geelani owes his life (literally and metaphorically) to India - indian security guards, indian hospitals - in no way makes him a GoI man. And that's the best part....heh, heh.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 11 Jan 2009 16:07

Raja Ram ji, unfortunately I couldn't make out why exactly you are feeling so strongly about RayC's comments and why it belongs to a category of comments that "To make such an assertion in a public forum by such a personage is not in the best interest of India, BR or BRF".

I would be grateful for an explanation.

I know by this post, I am taking on the might of the powers that be here once again. But please understand that this is with the best interest of BR in mind.

Please, this game of crying victim-hood is getting to be more than a bit tiring. It certainly does not befit a respected BRFite of long standing.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 11 Jan 2009 16:52

If four were known to be dead how come there are no bodies? Something doesnt add up.

Given RayC's description of the area and its historical activity levels, the above says one word:

TUNNEL

May not be all the way across the LOC, but maybe 0.5Km to get out of the "tightening cordon". This would explain why they drew fire until the cordon was close by, then walked out, dragging their dead comrades.

Also explains why they did that - finding the corpses of these may not have been good, because there may have been links established using fingerprints, DNA etc to the Mumbai gang.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 11 Jan 2009 18:22

That "We are Pakistan and Pakistan belongs to us" from Geelani was worth every rupee spent on protecting his carcass over the last few decades. That one sentence demolished years of lies and propaganda and took the wind out of the sails of a very dangerous media campaign.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 11 Jan 2009 21:16

vsudhir wrote:Geelani in many ways is our useful idiot.

Exactly. Pompous idiots like Hamid Zaid, Hamid Gul, Shrilleen, and Geelani are India's unpaid strategic weapons in war of words. Every time these goats start bleating, porkistan's (and it RAPE class') credibility (of what is still left) is further eroded. India should encourage these two-bit arm chair experts by ignoring them. Or better still, GOI should send them honorary checks (in Canadian $) for their services.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 11 Jan 2009 21:34

Don't forget Gohar Ayub Khan

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 11 Jan 2009 22:48

narayanan wrote:Don't forget Gohar Ayub Khan

The problem with him is that he has no credibility even in pukistan. That would be wasted money. The others are highly regarded in that land of manure.

Ananth · Post by **Ananth** » 12 Jan 2009 01:28

Raja Ram wrote:I too am surprised by the assertion that Geelani has been funded by RAW. That too when it comes from someone who has had a distinguished record of Army service including in Kashmir. I was hoping that Shri Ray C sir would at least provide us with a basis for his assertion. More so as he is a Moderator. I waited for a decent period of time before making this post.

RR:

Its question like yours that motivated me to save this url: Citizen Geelani

aditya · Post by **aditya** » 12 Jan 2009 05:09

Syed Ali Shah Geelani, perhaps the most visible figure of the Islamist Far Right in Jammu and Kashmir

"Islamist Far Right" is another nonsensical term like the jihadi term "Hindu Zionist". The Hundi can't just say "Islamist" since that is offensive to the "secular Islamists". Hence the extra "Far Right" qualifier for "communal Islamists".

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 12 Jan 2009 09:35

Rahul M,

Sir, It is pretty straight forward and self evident. What is difficult to understand?

Sir, the assertion by RayC sir is a serious one. He has asserted that RAW, the nation's premier external intelligence agency has funded and supported a known and self declared Pakistani agent, Syed Geelani. There has been no reference or basis to support the assertion. It is a serious and defamatory charge against a responsible and professional state agency the RAW.

RayC sir is a highly respected Army man with a distinguished record of service to the country and is also a moderator here in this forum. Hence his action can be seen as an official endorsement of the charge by BR. I dont think it is appropriate.

Tommorrow, for argument's sake, if I post something outrageous stating that - "Shri Manmohan Singh is a paid/unpaid agent of the CIA and is acting against the interests of India" without any reference or even reasons mentioned for such an assertion - then it is a serious charge and a defamatory one against the Prime Minister of India. If I post something like this, my post should be edited out and I should be banned. That would be the right thing. Nothing less would do, isn't it?

This request is also in accordance with the standards and requirements of BR. It is only right that the standards that are sought to be maintained by the moderators here are also adhered to by them as well.

Hence my submission to RayC and the moderator community as a well wisher. It is upto you all to do the right thing.

I dont have any sense of victim hood. I have only posted based on some experiences. I will take your advise on this and let it be and not post any such requests alluding to such experiences.

Ananth,
I went through that article. It still does not in any way support the assertion made about Geelani being a paid agent of RAW.

disha · Post by **disha** » 12 Jan 2009 09:43

Raja Ram wrote:Rahul M,
Ananth,
I went through that article. It still does not in any way support the assertion made about Geelani being a paid agent of RAW.

Maybe he is not a *paid* agent, but a *special* agent for RAW. Maybe an agent with a requirement to be probed specially!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jan 2009 09:45

Geelani could be double or even triple agent.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 12 Jan 2009 09:57

Hurriyat finance chief flees India
Earlytimes.in
1/11/2009 11:45:58 PM

Early Times Report
Srinagar, Jan 11: Nasir Safi Mir, alleged to be the 'financial brain' behind Hurriyat Conference has managed to flee the country after getting a forged passport from a southern state even as Delhi Police claimed that they were still looking for him.
According to sources in the central security agencies, Mir against whom a non-bailable warrant was issued, had allegedly bribed some officials of a southern state and made his passport after which he took a route to Nepal and then to Europe.
From Europe he was reported to have flown to Libya before finally reaching Dubai, the sources said.
Mir, was earlier arrested by Delhi Police in February 2006 while ferrying Rs 55 lakh from a Delhi-based jeweller along with some explosives, but had jumped parole which he had got after several requests made by his family to the court citing medical problems.
The 38-year-old Dubai-based businessman, who owns carpet showroom and money exchange firms in Gulf, had been regularly reporting to the nearest police station till earlier October 2008, but after that he did not turn up neither at the police station nor on the hearing date of the court.
Mir, who was considered as a prize catch by the Delhi Police following a well-executed operation by central security agencies, was all of a sudden missing prompting the court to issue a non-bailable warrant against him.
Delhi Police had shown its inability to trace Mir, whom they had claimed was very much hiding within the country.
According to the recent technical intercepts, Mir allegedly spoke to the separatist leadership after reaching Dubai.
While trying to trace back his steps, senior officials in the security agencies found that he had been helped by some sleuths of country's external intelligence agency, a Delhi-based Kashmiri businessman and a Srinagar-based hotelier in fleeing the country.

AFAIK, a fairly large portion of Kashmiri population is hardline Islamist. It's not entirely impossible that Gilani is acting without RAW's influence..though we still have hope.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 12 Jan 2009 11:04

Sir, the assertion by RayC sir is a serious one. He has asserted that RAW, the nation's premier external intelligence agency has funded and supported a known and self declared Pakistani agent, Syed Geelani. There has been no reference or basis to support the assertion. It is a serious and defamatory charge against a responsible and professional state agency the RAW.

Raja Ram ji, you are confusing two common sense issues

a)RayC has said "including the old goat Geelani, who I believe is funded by the ISI and the RAW" which is called a belief/opinion, not an assertion.
There are important differences between the two.

b)Intelligence work is hardly as black and white as you seem to believe , it isn't for nothing it is known as the world of smokes and mirrors. Using double agents inside enemy establishment is established intel practice all over the world although you may think providing money to any self-purported anti-national amounts to treason.

A google search on roman malinovsky might be enlightening.

There has been no reference or basis to support the assertion.

I went through that article. It still does not in any way support the assertion made about Geelani being a paid agent of RAW.

what did you expect ?
an admission by R&AW chief that geelani was their "secret" double agent ??

It is a serious and defamatory charge against a responsible and professional state agency the RAW.

Do you understand that far from being a charge, if true, this should be seen as an act of the very highest competence by R&AW and would confirm their status as a "responsible and professional state agency" ?

please think it over.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jan 2009 11:13

If the Isloos bump off Geelani(note spelling) then they will blame RAW!

sum · Post by **sum** » 12 Jan 2009 11:32

I went through that article. It still does not in any way support the assertion made about Geelani being a paid agent of RAW.

Actually I found the article very interesting and it seemed to show that either the GoI has a very,very soft spot for Geelani(read paid agent since there is no way our penny pinching babus will allow such luxuries for a man who abuses them day and night) or it is overtly doing all this to sow doubts in the minds of the other hurri-rats. Either way, RAW is in the thick of action reg Geelani,

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 12 Jan 2009 12:06

Rahul M,

I already know that RayC sir posted that as what he believes. You can classify it as belief, opinion or assertion. But the fact remains that it has not been based on anything referencable. Far less damaging beliefs/opinions/assertions have been challenged and edited out here on this forum. I have been here long enough and so have you sir.

Sir, may I also submit that I am not a greenhorn and do know about the practices and policies of the intelligence world. Suffice it to say sir, that I know the need for and practice of infiltration, double agents. I am also aware that this is age old and common to all intelligence agencies including RAW. I also submit to you sir, that it is not right to presume the level of my knowledge or experience in this regard.

If I make my post on Manmohan Singh being a CIA agent as my belief or opinion without even explaining why I have come to the conclusion or provide some reference (however untrustworty it may be as a source) then it should not find place in this forum.

Both from the perspective of standards set and expected of postors by the moderators here as well as and more importantly from the perspective of this forum being a responsible one dedicated to India. It is unbecoming of this forum and of RayC sir. That little sentence can be edited out by himself. It will cost nothing. The said belief statement by RayC sir does in no way add to his otherwise excellent post. It is my appeal to him and other moderators.

Please feel free to accept the appeal or reject it, mocking me with icons like

or

aside, all I seek is an application of your own standards. There is no need for endless debates on this regard. If you choose to reject my view and appeal so be it. I have done my duty by bringing this to your notice.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 12 Jan 2009 13:39

Geelani lives in India, not abroad. As such, he is under the thumb of Indian security agencies. The fact that he still breathes (and lives a life of a certain level of comfort) means that the Indian state perceives that his pathetic life serves some useful purpose. He could be tried under any number of laws.. Sedition, spreading communal hatred are public knowledge. I am sure that he is directly linked to at least some murders and terror strikes.

To serve this purpose, its not impossible that certain funds are funneled his way once in a while. These would be tactics.. not strategy. What is so surprising about this?

Some purposes may be, to keep open lines of communication with Hizb factions, or some plain old bribes to get something that he can deliver.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 12 Jan 2009 22:38

If I make my post on Manmohan Singh being a CIA agent as my belief or opinion without even explaining why I have come to the conclusion or provide some reference (however untrustworty it may be as a source) then it should not find place in this forum.

the very fact that you are comparing RayC's comments about geelani and the hypothetical situation where MMS is a CIA agent makes it clear that you haven't thought this over and are still confused about what RayC's comments mean.

Those two situations bear no comparison whatsoever, indeed even the apples and oranges analogy fails to convey the differences in nature of the two. A bucket and a moon-rocket might be a more appropriate one !

Anyway, a number of posters other than me have tried to convey the 'idea' to you and if you still cling on to a preposterous notion that it is somehow "not in the interests of India/BR etc etc" I'm afraid I've nothing more to add on this.
My last words on this topic.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 13 Jan 2009 00:04

ramana wrote:Geelani could be double or even triple agent.

I am, to put it mildly, confused. There is more to this, then meets the eye.

One thing is for sure, India has managed to hold on the Kashmir, while TSP has got a potentially death blow from the extreemsim. Let us just hope that some soft hearted twat dont "spare" Pakistan, if given the oppertunity to dismantle it.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 13 Jan 2009 00:11

Raja Ram wrote:Rahul M,

Sir, It is pretty straight forward and self evident. What is difficult to understand?

Sir, the assertion by RayC sir is a serious one. He has asserted that RAW, the nation's premier external intelligence agency has funded and supported a known and self declared Pakistani agent, Syed Geelani. There has been no reference or basis to support the assertion. It is a serious and defamatory charge against a responsible and professional state agency the RAW.

RayC sir is a highly respected Army man with a distinguished record of service to the country and is also a moderator here in this forum. Hence his action can be seen as an official endorsement of the charge by BR. I dont think it is appropriate.

Tommorrow, for argument's sake, if I post something outrageous stating that - "Shri Manmohan Singh is a paid/unpaid agent of the CIA and is acting against the interests of India" without any reference or even reasons mentioned for such an assertion - then it is a serious charge and a defamatory one against the Prime Minister of India. If I post something like this, my post should be edited out and I should be banned. That would be the right thing. Nothing less would do, isn't it?

This request is also in accordance with the standards and requirements of BR. It is only right that the standards that are sought to be maintained by the moderators here are also adhered to by them as well.

Hence my submission to RayC and the moderator community as a well wisher. It is upto you all to do the right thing.

I dont have any sense of victim hood. I have only posted based on some experiences. I will take your advise on this and let it be and not post any such requests alluding to such experiences.

Ananth,
I went through that article. It still does not in any way support the assertion made about Geelani being a paid agent of RAW.

Such things (supporting extremists on opposition side) are done routinely by all clandestine agencies. Bhindranwale was a creation of Indira Gandhi; Hamas was a creation of Israel; it is highly plausible that Geelani is supported by RAW. It could be for political leverage, or manipulation. It could be just to maintain communication. Do you know that Shivaji maintained open communication channels with Aurangazeb?

One can make these statements informally in a trusted forum; revealing details about the basis of such information can compromise security.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 13 Jan 2009 00:17

Geelani's attitude has single handedly destroyed the Hoorirats and his comment about Pseudo intellectuals living in India are more telling of him being double or triple agent. There is certainly something fishy about this rat. Waise kisi ko koi dilchaspsi hai in gup shup with naya mukh mantri .

rahulranjan · Post by **rahulranjan** » 14 Jan 2009 13:50

Two militants, two policemen killed in encounter

Jammu (PTI): Two militants, believed to be those who escaped from the army offensive at Poonch recently, were killed in an encounter at Rajouri belt by Jammu and Kashmir Police who lost two of its men in the gun-battle which is on.

On information that five militants were hiding in Tringa Gala area of Dharamshal belt in Rajouri, a police team launched a cordon and search operation, Noushera Superintendent of Police R K Bhat told PTI.

The police teams interecpted the groups that triggered a gun battle for a few hours, the sources said, adding two militants believed to be of Pakistan-based Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) were killed while search was on for the others.

A constable and Special Police Officer (SPO) were also killed in the encounter, they said, adding Army had also now been pressed into service for combing the area.

It seems we have got hold of at least of 2 of them who managed to fled in mendhar.

sum · Post by **sum** » 14 Jan 2009 22:23

The casualty ratio of pigs to forces killed seems to be back to the olden days of the 90s? We seems to have made it heavily skewed in favour of our forces since late 90s but recently, this ratio seems to be becoming nearly 2:1 or 3:1(two or three pigs per jawan killed) compared to 7 or 8:1 earlier?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 15 Jan 2009 00:33

sum wrote:The casualty ratio of pigs to forces killed seems to be back to the olden days of the 90s? We seems to have made it heavily skewed in favour of our forces since late 90s but recently, this ratio seems to be becoming nearly 2:1 or 3:1(two or three pigs per jawan killed) compared to 7 or 8:1 earlier?

That could be due to a change in the porki strategy of pushing in fewer pigs into India with a specific target to hold and fight in mind (and not just hit and run). Kind of like what happened in Bombay. The kill ratio is bound to be skewed in that scenario.

Although the Geneva convention does not permit it, I think that in such cases where the terrorists have holed up, the security forces should be allowed to gas (one that incapacitates you but not kills you) to smoke these pigs out. The problem is that you cant control that weapon.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 15 Jan 2009 01:27

A 60 minute long documentary (in 6 10 minute long parts) on 2 months long protests over Amarnath Shrine Board land issue in Jammu. Contains good footage of many important events. Commentary is kind of annoying but tolerable. I got it from a friend, don't know who actually produced it. I'd be grateful if somebody has any information for proper credits.
Some of the parts have poor video quality. If you find them too bad, kindly let me know. I'll upload better quality video.

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=3C1BTa0-AAY

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=82-eyrNMCbY

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=STF4inEdcVw

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=UOZkzL0PWjw

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=-BmwIhpiEgs

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=RQnEVEzmb90

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 15 Jan 2009 18:03

800 terrorists active in J&K: Army

Cross-border infiltration in Jammu and Kashmir [Images] has been on a decline since 2004, but about 600 to 800 terrorists are active in the state, army's Northern Command chief said on Thursday.

"About 600 to 800 terrorists are active in Jammu and Kashmir as per the assessment of various security agencies," General Officer Commanding in chief (GOC-in-C), Northern Command, Lt-Gen P C Bhardwaj told media persons soon after conclusion of northern command investiture ceremony in Akhnoor, Jammu, on Thursday.

"You have recently heard director general of police (J&K) there about a bandwidth of assessments by several agencies. The sum of all of them has come up to such a figure," he said.

He maintained terrorists and their leadership are under severe pressure due to the elimination of their top cadre.Due to this cumulative effect, 335 terrorists have been killed in joint operations during last year, he said.Referring to cross-border infiltration, Gen Bhardwaj said, "Infiltration is on decline since 2004 due to multi-tier deployment of security we have taken along LoC."

To a question about terrorists being staged along the borderline for infiltration into J&K, he said, "We are concerned. We keep up vigil against infiltration which happens especially in winter months. Security in south of Pir Panchal has been beefed up as infiltration may take place there."

He further said every month throughout the year and for so many years they (terrorists) remain prepared to find any opportunity to infiltrate.

When asked about the build up of troops along the border on the Pakistan side, he said army has increased vigilance along Line of Control [Images].

"We have kept an operational preparedness to a degree that we require at present. Northern Command is a deployed command and along LoC we are always on vigil," Bhardwaj said.

On the number of Pakistani troops there, he said, "My chief of staff has given a very explicit reply and summed up the whole situation on the border on eve of Army Day. As far as our side is concerned, the forward troops are doing their routine defence activity. That is what we have observed."

Asked if there was any change in the terrorist infrastructure across or along LoC after 26/11, he said, "There is no change at all. We have no reports of any closure of terrorist camp. We have always seen change of terrorist places and infiltration patterns over the period of time."

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 15 Jan 2009 22:56

Subject: Appeal to Join on 19 Jan on HOLOCAUST DAY

Dear All,

It was 19 years back on 19th January 1990 a common message was send to all the Kashmiri Pandits across valley to leave their homes and hearths. To leave and forget that Kashmir ever belonged to them.

All the places having public address systems in valley were reverbrating with one voice ...... Leave Kashmir.

It is this day which was a turning point in the history of Kashmir as it was held hostage to pan Islamic fundamentalism. This day has become a HOLOCAUST Day for our community.Since then the forces of Jihadi fundamentalism and those who want to balkanise India are getting strength. Therefore it is our duty to remind our Nation once again about the impact of islamic fundamentalism.

Hence, on coming 19 January 2009 Kashmiri Samiti Delhi and Panun Kashmir are jointly holding a protest march at Jantar Mantar and also to submit the memorundum to Home Minister of India.

I request all the members of community to come together and let us make impact in the powers of corridor.

Time - 3.00 pm

Venue - Jantar Mantar

Contact - Sh. Vijay Tikoo - 9871095533
Sh. Kamal Wangnoo - 9810343522.

Warm Regards,

Sunil Raina

On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:25 PM, PanunKashmir Delhi <[email protected]> wrote:

Namaskar

Panun Kashmir NCR Delhi and Kashmiri samiti Delhi are jointly holding a protest march on 19 th January 2009 from Jantar Mantar

Cannaught Place to the Parliament House to mark the Holocaust day . Protest march will start at 3 PM and a memorandum
to the Hon'ble Prime minister of India by chairman Panun Kashmir Dr. Ajay Chranjoo and President Kashmiri Samiti Delhi Dr. L.N.Dhar.

An appeal from Kashmiri Samiti Delhi is attached herewith for your information. Please be there to make it a sucess.

ONE COMMUNITY --ONE VOICE --ONE DEMAND
HOMELAND FOR KASHMIRI PANDITS

Jai Panun Kashmir--Jai Bharat

sum · Post by **sum** » 16 Jan 2009 09:28

Very,very important development. The Hizb co-founder "surrenders".
http://www.hindu.com/2009/01/16/stories ... 991400.htm

Hizb co-founder’s arrest could set stage for dialogue

Praveen Swami

Mohammad Ahsan Dar laid foundations for jihad in Jammu and Kashmir

NEW DELHI: For students of theatre, Mohammad Ahsan Dar’s story couldn’t have had a less fitting end.

On Wednesday, the man who co-founded the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen — and thus laid the foundations for a still-unfolding war that has claimed over 42,000 lives — emerged unarmed from a safe house in the town of Sumbal, having made no effort to resist arrest.

But many believe Dar’s arrest marks the beginning of another —and just as potentially fateful — story. Inside both the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen and the State’s major political parties, Dar’s arrest is being characterised as a disguised surrender — a gambit designed to open the way for a dialogue between elements of the jihadist leadership in Pakistan, and the new government in Srinagar.

Ever since he was spotted by Indian intelligence assets in December, 2003, Dar is known to have made visits to India almost each year, travelling from Lahore to Kathmandu or Dhaka, and onwards by road.

Dar claimed his secret visits were part of an effort to revive the ethnic-Kashmiri character of the jihad in Jammu and Kashmir. For the most part, though, the trips — which appear to have had the quiet assent of Indian authorities — were used to sound out State politicians on the prospect of securing political space for the Muzaffarabad-based leadership of Jammu and Kashmir’s major jihadist groups — generals who had seen their armies disintegrate in the face of India’s increasingly-effective counter-terrorism operations.

Many within India’s intelligence community believe Dar allowed himself to be arrested, hoping that the new National Conference-led alliance government in Jammu and Kashmir will help realise this project.

Dar had been controversially released from jail in early 2000 on the orders of the then Minister of State for Home Mushtaq Ahmad Lone. Critics had charged at the time that Lone engineered the release to win support for the ruling National Conference among Islamists, in an effort to undermine the secessionist All Parties Hurriyat Conference. Interestingly, Dar had been arrested from the home of Mr. Lone’s brother in 1993.

But soon after his release, Dar escaped to Pakistan. On June 30, 2000, journalists received a telephone call from the former jihad commander, who said he intended to revive the Ansar-ul-Islam —one of the jihadist groups which had eventually coalesced into the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen. But if Dar’s intention was, as many suspected, to set up a pro-National Conference jihadist group, it came to nothing. Mr. Lone, for his part, was assassinated by the Lashkar-e-Taiba during the 2002 Assembly election campaign.
A jihadist’s journey

Even if Dar’s arrest has no impact on the contours of the jihad in Jammu and Kashmir, his story is significant in itself.

Back in 1986, a group of Islamists linked to the Jamaat-e-Islami — which had been robbed through electoral rigging of the opportunity to establish a significant presence in the J&K Assembly — set up a jihadist group called the Ansar-ul-Islam.

Dar, who had earlier worked as a schoolteacher in Pattan — thus acquiring the nickname ‘Master’— was appointed its chief. Unlike most other members of the group, Dar had acquired rudimentary military training during a clandestine 1984 visit to Pakistan.

In 1988, when the jihadist in Jammu and Kashmir began to gather momentum, the Ansar-ul-Islam was renamed the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen. Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate and the Jamaat-e-Islami threw their weight behind the group. By 1991, the Hizb succeeded in absorbing several smaller jihadist organisations, like the Tehreek-e-Jihad Islami, the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen-al-Jihad Commandos, and the Allah Tigers.

Dar presided over this process of expansion — an expansion which saw the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen increase its recruitment operations from amongst small peasants and the rural poor, who had traditionally been hostile to the Jamaat.

By 1991, Dar’s success had begun to alarm the ISI, which feared he would seek an independent political deal with India. That year, the senior-most Pakistan-based Hizb-ul-Mujahideen leader, Mohammad Yusuf Shah, alleged that Dar had embezzled Rs. 2 crore from the organisation.

Even as Dar sought to fight off the allegations, he found that the ISI had begun to choke funds and weapons flows to Hizb-ul-Mujahideen units who still acknowledged his authority.

The power-struggle dragged on until May 1992, when Dar was kidnapped near the south Kashmir town of Kokernag and forced to resign his charge.

Later, Dar crossed the Line of Control to seek support for a new organisation he set up, called the Muslim Mujahideen. He received little assistance.

In 1993, Dar was arrested. Most of the Muslim Mujahideen’s cadre now joined the pro-India militia of south Kashmir-based jihadist Ghulam Nabi Azad, and initiated the counter-terrorism campaign which eventually led to the near-annihilation of the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 16 Jan 2009 09:52

Why is almost every terrorist caught/dead in J&K sports some fancy title like Area Commander, District Chief etc.?

sum · Post by **sum** » 16 Jan 2009 12:09

Choosing your title must be one of the perks of the job!!!

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 19 Jan 2009 00:09

jamwal wrote:Why is almost every terrorist caught/dead in J&K sports some fancy title like Area Commander, District Chief etc.?

Porki Terrorists, Inc, is a flat organization. Similar to the corporate structure in Al Qaeda.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 19 Jan 2009 01:32

Something rings seriously fishy (and significant) with that news report. For background, and for a story that does not change with time, see here.

You can draw ur own conclusions about Ahsan Dar and the H-u-M. Expect to read of another "ceasefire" with the HuM soon.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 19 Jan 2009 01:52

I don't take the Hizb ceasefire BS seriously. It has happened in the past too. TSPA/ISI through their LeT foot soldiers hold the real cards. Any Hizb or whoever dare go at it alone by talking to India will be wiped off in a heart beat. Abdul Masjid Dar, Abdu Ghani Lone are perfect examples. Thats why even Omar Abdullah runs scared like a chicken to say anything but bha bhai talk about TSP.

But couple of questions to the gurus. Why did TSP allow the elections to go off without any hindrance, especially given the high turn out. Not withstanding the sophistry A'Roy and A.G. Noorani types put out, namely, the vote is for better roads and scholls and the like onlee; clearly, the high turn out has dented TSP's (through APHC) boycott call. So questions remains as to why TSP did not sabotage the elections?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 19 Jan 2009 03:42

CRamS wrote:
But couple of questions to the gurus. Why did TSP allow the elections to go off without any hindrance, especially given the high turn out. Not withstanding the sophistry A'Roy and A.G. Noorani types put out, namely, the vote is for better roads and scholls and the like onlee; clearly, the high turn out has dented TSP'spubl (through APHC) boycott call. So questions remains as to why TSP did not sabotage the elections?

Too much focus on Pakistan in the world media was a deterrence on Pak leadership.

They dont want negative publicity but only pro-Pakistan publicity.

After Mumbai attacks we see that they are getting pro-Pakistan publicity. How is that?

I want to understand this fascinating situation where India is the victim but the media reports are pro-Pakistan and neutral to Pakistan.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 19 Jan 2009 03:49

When a terrorist surrenders a dialogue ensue, if the terrorist continue to bomb we send dove cards olr bar soap to wash off their hands?

ANy chanikyan reasoning here? We Indians can rationalize any action no?

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 19 Jan 2009 03:54

Acharya wrote: Too much focus on Pakistan in the world media was a deterrence on Pak leadership.

They dont want negative publicity but only pro-Pakistan publicity.

After Mumbai attacks we see that they are getting pro-Pakistan publicity. How is that?

I want to understand this fascinating situation where India is the victim but the media reports are pro-Pakistan and neutral to Pakistan.

What better way to get the unwashed third world slum doggers of 'south asia' to be at each others throat and get weakend in the process. Any loss of blood in either direction is no skin off the perfidious albinos. Couldn't have created a better situation than in 'south asia' where beer and popcorn can be consumed in watching the tamasha. Millipede can still go on lecture tour about the wretched 'newclear' flash point, when the effect of beer guzzling reaches dizzy heights.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 19 Jan 2009 04:02

CRamS wrote:I don't take the Hizb ceasefire BS seriously. It has happened in the past too. TSPA/ISI through their LeT foot soldiers hold the real cards. Any Hizb or whoever dare go at it alone by talking to India will be wiped off in a heart beat. Abdul Masjid Dar, Abdu Ghani Lone are perfect examples. Thats why even Omar Abdullah runs scared like a chicken to say anything but bha bhai talk about TSP.

But couple of questions to the gurus. Why did TSP allow the elections to go off without any hindrance, especially given the high turn out. Not withstanding the sophistry A'Roy and A.G. Noorani types put out, namely, the vote is for better roads and scholls and the like onlee; clearly, the high turn out has dented TSP's (through APHC) boycott call. So questions remains as to why TSP did not sabotage the elections?

Not a guru, far from it but my 2 paise, TSP in its current state is struggling for resources to keep its own country in shape...