J & K news and discussion

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 19 Jan 2009 09:43

These are the same people who'd eat grass just to see kafir India destroyed. They can always spare a few 100 crore for proxy war with India, everything else be damned.

LeT ready to shun gun for K-solution
1/18/2009 11:28:18 PM

http://earlytimes.in/

Early Times Report
Srinagar, Jan 18: The Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) terrorist group, blamed for the November 26 Mumbai attacks, has said it was ready to shun arms if the Kashmir issue was resolved peacefully.
In a statement issued to the media here late Saturday, Abdullah Gaznavi, the spokesman of the outfit said: “If the world listens to our cries, and plays its role in resolving the Kashmir issue, there is no point continuing the fight."
In an apparent reference to the al Qaeda terror network, the LeT spokesman said the group had no association or relationship with guerrilla groups operating globally.
“Our struggle is only confined to Kashmir and we have no relationship or association with armed groups operating at international level," Gaznavi said.
“We have no global agenda. We just want freedom of Kashmir and if it comes peacefully we will welcome it. We don’t see armed struggle as the only way to achieve our goal," he said.
The statement assumes significance as it came a day after the British Foreign Secretary, David Miliband stressed the importance of resolving the Kashmir issue.
The LeT statement also said the British government had a role to play in the resolution of the dispute and needed to move beyond words and take concrete steps for it.
The Let spokesman reiterated that his outfit had no role in the Mumbai terror attacks.

Strange things are happening.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 19 Jan 2009 09:47

jamwal wrote:T

I think the whole statement was given to the press just for this one point,

In an apparent reference to the al Qaeda terror network, the LeT spokesman said the group had no association or relationship with guerrilla groups operating globally.
“Our struggle is only confined to Kashmir and we have no relationship or association with armed groups operating at international level

orders from TSP LeT HQ to make statements of having nothing to do with AQ to give legitimacy to Kashmir "struggle"

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 19 Jan 2009 13:31

LeT's statements of distancing itself from JuD & Al Qaeda are mere hogwash. Their claim that they are merely Kashmir-centric is ridiculous, to say the least. They want to exploit the nonsense put forth by the US and the UK that Kashmir is the cause for the Mumbai violence. The LeT is trying to latch on to this idiotic explanation to divert attention and put on a show of injured innocence.

Three weeks before LeT was officially banned in TSP on Jan. 15, 2002, it morphed into Jama’at-ud-Dawa (JuD), its Amir Hafeez Saeed announced his stepping down and announced the shifting of its offices to Jammu and Kashmir (!) with the general council having been reconstituted with many Kashmiris. We can be reasonably certain that LeT was tipped off of impending action, a la Tomahawk attack tip-off to bin Laden in circa 1998, and advised suitably to modify itself.

Let's see how Kashmir-centric is this LeT.

On Mar. 29, 2002, Abu Zubaidah/Abu Zubaydah (Zayn al-Abidin Mohammed Husayn), a Palestenian, and a top Al-Qaeda operative, was arrested in Faisalabad from the house of an LeT leader. Abu Zubaidah had operational control of many Al Qaeda terrorist strikes including USS Cole. His interrogation revealed deep connection with the PAF and the ISI as well as Saudi Royalty. The PAF contact, as well as all the three Saudi Royalties, died mysteriously in quick succession. Only the ISI contacts and of course the LeT leader survived perhaps.

On Nov. 9, 2003, three LeT men, including a Pakistani Khwaja Mahmood Hasan, were sentenced in Alexandria, Virginia for trying to wage jihad against India, Philippines and Chechenya. Khwaja Mahmood Hasan was sentenced to 11 years and 3 months.

LeT trained the Indonesia-based Jemmah Islamiyah (JI) as well as the Philippine-based Abu Sayyaf in camps in Pakistan and Kashmir.

A LeT terrorist, Faheem Khalid Lodhi, was arrested in Sydney with plans to attack installations. Faheem Lodhi, an architect by profession, was also an official in an LeT terror training camp near Lahore. He was found guilty on June 19, 2006 of of planning to bomb Sydney defense sites and the city’s electricity grid.

Abu Farraj Al-Libbi (aka Dr. Ibrahim or Dr. Taufiq), reportedly no. 3 in Al-Qaeda was captured in Pakistan on 2, May, 2005 from an LeT site. He has a USD 1 million bounty on his head.

A British citizen of Pakistani descent, Mohammed Ajmal Khan, a “person of authority” in Lashkar-e-Tayyaba (LeT) and described as a “quartermaster” for that terrorist organization was sentenced to 14 years in a British court on Mar. 17, 2006.

On Aug. 4, 2005, a US citizen, Mahmud Ahmed Brent, arrested on terror charges pleaded guilty to training in an LeT terror camp in Pakistan

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 19 Jan 2009 13:55

How come instead of Kashmiris, only Punjabis are in LeT. Does the world knows this when LeT makes an appeal to the world.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 19 Jan 2009 16:05

As long as GoI doesn't buy into this LeT==kashmiri onlee hogwash, nothing will have changed on the ground. unkil-aunty have always been pushing for separating J&K from India, no secret onlee.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 19 Jan 2009 17:50

Yes, the Jihadi war against India after the K-solution would be fought under a new name.

sum · Post by **sum** » 19 Jan 2009 22:17

Srinagar, Jan 18: The Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) terrorist group, blamed for the November 26 Mumbai attacks, has said it was ready to shun arms if the Kashmir issue was resolved peacefully.
In a statement issued to the media here late Saturday, Abdullah Gaznavi, the spokesman of the outfit said: “If the world listens to our cries, and plays its role in resolving the Kashmir issue, there is no point continuing the fight."

This statement seems to have made its way straight out of the printing press of the ISI directorate in Rawalpindi. Classic case of playing to the gallery,esp the incoming Obama.

Basically, Pak saying to Amrika through its proxy mouthpeices: Give us Kashmir onlee, we will not bother touching you in A'than/elsewhere.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 20 Jan 2009 00:22

What has India gained I ask as a result of the recent elections I ask? The elected representative Omar Abdullah bows to TSPA/ISI edicts. What a disgrace:

But reacting to the statement, Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah said if it was the Lashkar’s honest intent, it could be an opening. “We are always for a dialogue,” he told newsmen in Jammu on Monday evening. People’s Democratic Party chief Mehbooba Mufti, too, welcomed it.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Jan 2009 00:23

X-posted with highlights....

Aditya G wrote:http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2008/07/ ... n-its.html

Book review: Crossed Swords: Pakistan, Its Army and the Wars Within

By Ajai Shukla

Crossed Swords: Pakistan, its Army and the Wars Within
By Shuja Nawaz
Oxford University Press, 2008
655 pages
Cost: Rs 695/-

...

Nawaz’s book also draws relevance from dozens of personal interviews with Pakistani decision makers over the years, shining important new light on events that are still current. That Nawaz Sharif is lying when he says Kargil came as a surprise to him becomes evident from the author’s interviews with Sharif’s foreign minister and close confidant, Sartaj Aziz, and with then ISI Director General, Ziauddin --- whom Sharif trusted enough to hand-pick as Musharraf’s successor. Sartaj Aziz admits to attending an army briefing on 12th March 1999 --- two months before the intrusions there discovered --- in which the army told him that groups of “mujahideen” had been sent into Indian territory. It is unlikely that Aziz would not have informed his PM.

And on 17th May, General Ziauddin --- Nawaz Sharif’s chosen man --- describes a detailed briefing at ISI headquarters in which Sharif was shown on a map the locations of all 108 Pakistani bunkers on the Indian side. Ziauddin recounts that, to his surprise, Sharif even asked questions and finally instructed the army that, “there should be no withdrawal, no surrender, because that would greatly embarrass us.”

Shuja Nawaz also debunks the traditional Pakistani version of the 1947 invasion of Kashmir, in which a maverick General Akbar Khan privately organised Pathan tribesmen, who swept past an effete Dogra army and were stopped at the doorstep of Srinagar only by Indian perfidy. Nawaz draws on Pakistani army archives to paint a new account of the deep involvement of Pakistan’s military in managing the invasion, even a tacit nod from Jinnah. And, most interestingly, the British generals in Pakistan were far more sympathetic towards the invasion than was earlier known. The British commander-in-chief in Pakistan, General Sir Frank Messervy favoured sending a Pakistani regular battalion into Srinagar in plainclothes, to capture the airfield and keep out Indian reinforcements; in December 1947 Messervy allocated a million bullets and Pakistani officer volunteers to the “tribal” invasion. Lt Gen Sir Douglas Gracey, who eventually succeeded Messervy, went even further in his support to the invasion of Kashmir.
...
PA Major AH Amin's review can also be found in the comments.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 20 Jan 2009 02:58

“Our struggle is only confined to Kashmir and we have no relationship or association with armed groups operating at international level," Gaznavi said.

"As far back as 1999, Lashkar's website carried a logo with three flags -- those of India, the United States and Israel -- pierced by a sword dripping with blood"

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 21 Jan 2009 11:11

Daily Excelsior

Trouble again erupted in oath taking ceremony when State BJP president and MLA City East Ashok Khajuria wanted to take oath on the name of Goddess Vaishno Devi Ji. This was objected to by both NC and PDP MLAs including Rural Development Minister Ali Mohd Sagar, former Deputy Speaker and NC MLA Mohd Akbar Lone, Saifullah Mir and Mubarak Gul. A number of PDP MLAs also stood up on their seats and objected to Khajuria’s oath on the name of Goddess Vaishno Devi.

"This is the question of my faith. Why should you have any objections"? Khajuria asked the protesting NC and PDP members.

"This is unConstitutional", a NC MLA remarked saying the oath can be taken only on the name of God religious bigot.

Khajuria then took oath on the name of ‘Parmatma’ and asked NC MLAs: "is it OK or still you have any problem"?

It may be mentioned here that former Minister and Congress MLA from Reasi, Mr Kishore said not only as a Minister or MLA but he had also taken oath as Municipal Council member on the name of Goddess Vaishno Devi. "There is no difference between Goddess Vaishno Devi and God. The BJP MLA should have taken a stand on the issue", he said and regretted that Khajuria succumbed to the pressure.

Asserting themselves, the 11 member strong BJP group reached the Assembly together wearing ‘kesariya’ colored Dogri ‘pagris’ and took the oath in Dogri. After being offered a document of oath in Hindi, Prof Gupta, who was the first from the BJP to take the oath, rejected the paper offered by Assembly staff. He took his own paper with the oath written in Dogri, which all BJP members had brought with them, and read it in his mother-tongue.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 21 Jan 2009 15:27

CRamS wrote:What has India gained I ask as a result of the recent elections I ask? The elected representative Omar Abdullah bows to TSPA/ISI edicts. What a disgrace:

But reacting to the statement, Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah said if it was the Lashkar’s honest intent, it could be an opening. “We are always for a dialogue,” he told newsmen in Jammu on Monday evening. People’s Democratic Party chief Mehbooba Mufti, too, welcomed it.

Don't go by what Kashmiri Leaders say. They are master of double speak. Watch out for their actions. Anyways if you check even the main stream parties would in few days be welcoming the statement.

cholaraja · Post by **cholaraja** » 22 Jan 2009 02:21

Obama looks to mediate in Kasmir

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7838440.stm

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 22 Jan 2009 02:41

rohan_thak wrote:Obama looks to mediate in Kasmir

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7838440.stm

Its written by Andrew $hithead so i am not sure if its propagandu or reality or his wet dream. However I am sure that something is brewing... and if UPA is in power over the next election... I think Kashmir will be gone before Obama is gone from the whitehose.

Anyway.. its better to think twice before believing anything from Al-BBC-Dhimmi goat f*****ers

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 22 Jan 2009 15:00

Guys, I know we have a tendency to worry, which is fine really. But this is really one issue that we need not worry about. The congresswallas are even less likely than BJP (if that is possible) to compromise on this issue for obvious reasons.

Obama will be suitably advised not to venture in. We are more than capable of handling all such probes, trial balloons, covert signals, white papers, special envoys (of which I'm prepared to bet there will not be one for India)... If he does appoint a special envoy on "the Kashmir dispute", I do not envy his encounter with our relevant babus

on the subject matter.

Our problem is that we have an inherent inability to say "No. Fu(k off"... Too polite. I mean I can even imagine what some aunty with competent authority in MEA will say, summarised as follows: He's a guest, naa, we should not be rude. Plus Obama is new to the presidency, and so slim and handsome only (eee), he's a young man. Let him not feel that we are that kind of people (i.e. the type who is rude for whatever reason)"... I know its a caricature, but net result may well be that.

So, we will entertain any idea, and we have as many ways of not saying "Yes" as we have gods. In the process, as many of us on BRF are fond of saying, much chai/biskoot will be consumed

And who knows, we may even eventually classify the special envoy as a friend...

While, next door, our converted brethren go apeshite...

Chill.

sum · Post by **sum** » 22 Jan 2009 18:40

The congresswallas are even less likely than BJP (if that is possible) to compromise on this issue for obvious reasons.

Whatever the flaws of the kangress, they just clam up when it comes to the K word. maybe its a guilt conscience for what their leader, Chacha Nehru did and so, they refuse to maintain anything other than status quo.

IMO, J&K will be safe under a kangress govt.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 22 Jan 2009 19:12

I mean seriously no matter which political party comes to power, the musharraf will be clenched tighter than a baniya in recession, when it comes to Kashmir. I believe the 90s were the worst when BJ Bubba Clintoon would regularly leak to the media about how Kashmir was a flashpoint, and we got through uscathed.

We also have the capability of doing sufficient khujlee to unkil in Ashcanistan if we are really pushed in a corner.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 22 Jan 2009 19:16

BJ Bubba Clintoon would regularly leak to the media about how Kashmir was a flashpoint

Which is what worries me. Now the Real ex-President Clinton wields the Big Mouth as SoS, and the zipper-challenged Slick Willie runs the Clinton Foundation fundraising from the Sheikhs and Pakis. And both have a higher admiration rating in India than Yuvraj and Pumpkin combined.

But it's good to be reassured that J&K is safe under UPA. At least we can go there as refugees since the rest of India sure ain't safe. But wait! Article 370 won't let us go there unless we have Pakistani passports, right?

(Rahul, Hello! Clarifikashun added: "Pumpkin" is NOT a current Indian National Leader!!!

Aiyyooooo!!!) (May be FUTURE leader.. pls check Ophishial Nomenclature..)

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 22 Jan 2009 20:18

>>the musharraf will be clenched tighter than a baniya in recession

That's some truly heroic shit there Nayak my man.....

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Jan 2009 21:06

LeT ready to shun gun for K-solution

You let me sleep with your wife without making a fuss and I will stop issuing you with death threats.

Simple. I am peaceful onlee. i am looking for a peaceful solution.

sum · Post by **sum** » 22 Jan 2009 22:16

shiv wrote:
LeT ready to shun gun for K-solution
You let me sleep with your wife without making a fuss and I will stop issuing you with death threats.
Simple. I am peaceful onlee. i am looking for a peaceful solution.

Just love these pearls of "vulgar"(but amazingly to the point) gyaan....

sum · Post by **sum** » 24 Jan 2009 21:16

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 025789.cms

Sikh youth arrested for helping Lashkar militants
24 Jan 2009, 1418 hrs IST, PTI

SRINAGAR: Jammu and Kashmir Police have arrested a Sikh youth in North Kashmir for allegedly allowing Pakistan-based Lashker-e-Taiba (LeT) operatives to use his house as make-shift ammunition dump in exchange of liquor. ( Watch )

Popinder Singh, who was working as X-ray technician with state health service, was picked up from his house in Choudhal in frontier district of Handwara after he was named by an arrested militant, official sources said.

During investigation into a grenade throwing incident at Handwara, police had arrested a person identified as Aslam who led to another Lashker operative and the trail led to Singh, they said.The sources said Police recovered two hand-grenades and a pistol from his residence which had been kept by Lashker operatives who offered him some money and some bottles of liquor.

Senior police officials claimed that Singh was an alcoholic and used to allow his premises as a make-shift ammunition dump for Lashker outfit.

From what news reports said, this guy might be a prize catch for the agencies.
Might be a Khalistan remnant?

Btw,has the SoG been reactivated again( this op was supposedly conducted by the SoG)? IMO, it was disbanded during the "80% Paki" Mufti Sayeed's regime.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 25 Jan 2009 21:11

Culture clash: Kashmiri militant takes on Bollywood

Activist threatens legal action over film in which she is played by sex symbol

* Maseeh Rahman in Delhi
* The Guardian, Saturday 24 January 2009

Think of it as the fundamentalist meets the femme fatale. In court. Daggers drawn.

In one corner, Asiya Andrabi, the leader of Dukhtaran-e-Millat, the Kashmiri women's morality brigade, a woman so committed to Kashmiri separatism that her sons are already pledged as martyrs to the cause. In the other, the Bollywood star Bipasha Basu, a woman whose first name means "fetterless, unbound", and whose sultry films have lived up to that billing.

In a move that has critics intrigued and Kashmiri separatists appalled, the actor is to play Andrabi in the film Lamhaa, which seeks to dissect the Kashmiri Muslim movement in India.

Andrabi is unimpressed. "I will not tolerate any Bollywood actor playing my role," she told the Guardian. She sent a legal notice to the hotel in Srinagar, the capital of Indian-administered Kashmir, where the film crew were staying last week, indicating her intention to take action. The film unit had left the city but Andrabi is not easily deterred.

"If I find the film objectionable, I'll take legal action to shut it down," she said.

The stand-off is the latest and most improbable confrontation in the long struggle between Muslims in Kashmir's idyllic Srinagar valley and the Indian government.

The two women could not be more different. Andrabi, 45, set up Dukhtaran-e-Millat (Daughters of the Nation) in 1981 after graduating in biology and biochemistry. In public, she only appears fully veiled and covered.

She has spent years in jail, and her most recent incarceration was during Kashmir's state assembly elections last month. Her husband has also been imprisoned for his part in the Kashmiri separatist movement and they have named one of their two sons Muhammad bin Qasim, after the Indian subcontinent's first Muslim invader.

When not campaigning on the streets of Srinagar, Andrabi teaches Arabic and Islam to girls, and believes the world is divided into two "nations", Muslim and non-Muslim.

Basu has been one of Bollywood's most coveted sex symbols since her debut film in 2001, and has an altogether more liberal approach to dress and deportment.

Ben Kingsley is said to have hailed her as "India's Sophia Loren". She was "flattered" when Richard Gere described her on Indian television as "sexy and hot", has featured in steamy scenes on screen and was photographed kissing footballer Cristiano Ronaldo at a party in Lisbon. Her boyfriend is John Abraham, another Bollywood sex symbol.

Both women have had their brushes with controversy. Andrabi first made news when her burka-clad followers went round Srinagar tarring film posters showing women less covered than themselves.

She has conducted other aggressive campaigns against women and even schoolgirls appearing unveiled on the streets, against cyber cafes and restaurants frequented by young couples, against liquor shops and prostitution and even against dowries.

Basu's headline-grabbing escapades belong to a different genre. A well-known Mumbai plastic surgeon once alleged the Bollywood star had not paid him for breast implants (she denied having implants). Public uproar led her to blame the Ronaldo kiss on an "out of context" photograph and after failing to show up in time for an India Day parade in New Jersey, Basu alleged she was "harassed mentally and physically" by two men escorting her to the event.

But like Loren, Basu also aspires to recognition as a serious actor.

This is what got her into Lamhaa, directed by Rahul Dholakia, whose debut feature, Parzania, was a highly acclaimed film set amid horrific anti-Muslim violence in Gujarat.

The film was suppressed in the state, which is ruled by rightwing Hindus.

"We've a strange equation," the star says of the director.

"He looked at me at the start and asked if I'm a method actor. I liked that. It showed the director had enough respect in me to first find out what kind of an actor I am."

Dholakia, who grew up in Kashmir, said that he wanted to make "an absolutely positive film about Kashmir and its people".

To make doubly sure, before he began shooting he met and talked to important separatist leaders in Srinagar, including Andrabi.

"He told me that he was determined to show the reality, how the Kashmiris had been brutally treated by the security forces," said Andrabi, by telephone from Srinagar.

"I told him, how is it possible, you will not be allowed. He said he can do it."

Even as Dholakia began shooting last year, word spread that some of the film's characters were based on important Muslim separatist leaders, such as Andrabi, Syed Ali Shah Geelani of the Jamaat-e-Islami, and Shahidul Islam, a former insurgent commander.

But only Andrabi has taken serious umbrage, after complaining that Dholakia did not stick to his bargain to show her the film script.

The undelivered notice from Andrabi's lawyer said: "My client is a profound follower of Islam and is pardah nasheen (veiled) ... So she doesn't want her character to be portrayed by any actress in the movie who is incompatible with her virtues."

If she was a true follower of Religion of Peace she should have sent a couple of suicide bombers. So these are the dogs barking on behalf of the nutless Kashmeeris ?

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 26 Jan 2009 01:17

Are Northern Areas part of Kashmir dispute?

Northern Areas of Pakistan were historically part of the state of Jammu and Kashmir. However, they should not be part of the ‘dispute of the Kashmir’ whenever India and Pakistan enter into any dialogue to resolve this issue. The reasons are both legal and historical.

several states within the NA (Gilgit, Baltistan etc) entered into fresh accession documents with Pakistan. These accession documents thus legally transferred the title of these states within the NA to the newly formed state of Pakistan and relinquished their historic ties with the then State of Jammu and Kashmir. Therefore, the territories of Gilgit, Baltistan etc., with effect from the date of the instruments of accession, ended their legal relationship with the then State of Jammu and Kashmir and became part of the territories of Pakistan and accepted legal control by the state of Pakistan.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Jan 2009 12:33

sum wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 025789.cms
Sikh youth arrested for helping Lashkar militants
24 Jan 2009, 1418 hrs IST, PTI

SRINAGAR: Jammu and Kashmir Police have arrested a Sikh youth in North Kashmir for allegedly allowing Pakistan-based Lashker-e-Taiba (LeT) operatives to use his house as make-shift ammunition dump in exchange of liquor. ( Watch )

Popinder Singh, who was working as X-ray technician with state health service, was picked up from his house in Choudhal in frontier district of Handwara after he was named by an arrested militant, official sources said.

During investigation into a grenade throwing incident at Handwara, police had arrested a person identified as Aslam who led to another Lashker operative and the trail led to Singh, they said.The sources said Police recovered two hand-grenades and a pistol from his residence which had been kept by Lashker operatives who offered him some money and some bottles of liquor.

Senior police officials claimed that Singh was an alcoholic and used to allow his premises as a make-shift ammunition dump for Lashker outfit.
From what news reports said, this guy might be a prize catch for the agencies.
Might be a Khalistan remnant?

Btw,has the SoG been reactivated again( this op was supposedly conducted by the SoG)? IMO, it was disbanded during the "80% Paki" Mufti Sayeed's regime.

Poor chap.
With a name like Popinder Singh, its enough to drive anybody to drink

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 27 Jan 2009 18:44

chetak wrote:Poor chap. With a name like Popinder Singh, its enough to drive anybody to drink

Pop goes the weasel?

niran · Post by **niran** » 28 Jan 2009 11:33

India TV is Flashing
LET Abu Hamja has had his hajmat done,
on his way to jahanum.

sum · Post by **sum** » 28 Jan 2009 22:00

But, again we lost a trooper and three injured!!!!

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 31 Jan 2009 01:36

U.S. Removes Kashmir From Envoy's Mandate; India Exults

"No matter what government is in place, India is not going to relinquish control of Jammu and Kashmir," Brajesh Mishra, India's former national security adviser, said in reference to the territory's Indian-administered sector. "That is written in stone and cannot be changed."

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 31 Jan 2009 03:53

Gerard wrote:U.S. Removes Kashmir From Envoy's Mandate; India Exults
"India is not going to relinquish control of Jammu and Kashmir"

Unfortunate choice of words to convey India's well-meant intent.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 31 Jan 2009 14:37

Gerard wrote:U.S. Removes Kashmir From Envoy's Mandate; India Exults

Kashmir was never on Holbrooke's plate in the first place, US

"As we've said before, that Kashmir was not going to be a part of Ambassador Holbrooke's portfolio. We've made that very clear," State Department spokesman Robert Wood said on Friday asserting that such a "story in The Washington Post is not true."

"And I would just say to you that, of course, India has a lot of interests in Afghanistan. Ambassador Holbrooke, other officials will be consulting with India," he said. "But you know, that. It was never being considered."

"I'm saying that - well, that headline specifically is not true," Wood said when asked if he had indeed described the Post story as not true.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 31 Jan 2009 15:54

I think IA's Jammu&Kashmir counter insurgency operations would be the most successful in the whole world for the sheer scale, intensity and success rate of its operations over the long period of time. Is there a comparable situation in any other country?

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 31 Jan 2009 17:31

Dilbu wrote:I think IA's Jammu&Kashmir counter insurgency operations would be the most successful in the whole world for the sheer scale, intensity and success rate of its operations over the long period of time. Is there a comparable situation in any other country?

Yes, in Punjab!

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 31 Jan 2009 17:47

Dilbu wrote:I think IA's Jammu&Kashmir counter insurgency operations would be the most successful in the whole world for the sheer scale, intensity and success rate of its operations over the long period of time.

See
India: State Response to Insurgency in Jammu & Kashmir – The Jammu Case
By THOMAS A. MARKS
http://www.smallwars.quantico.usmc.mil/ ... rticle.pdf
or here
http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/publicati ... ticle1.htm

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 31 Jan 2009 17:53

Gerard saar the link is not working.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 31 Jan 2009 23:46

>>"India has some very clear views as to what it wants to do vis-a-vis dealing with the Kashmir issue, as well as the Pakistanis."

An interesting statement, don't you think, coming as it is from the US Department of State... If the Paks parse this right, forcible and repeated unclenching of musharrafs is guaranteed

satya · Post by **satya** » 02 Feb 2009 18:11

Came back from visit to Jammu more precisely Katra for SMVD darshan .It was almost after a gap 18 yrs since i went to Katra . A few observations & perceptions from interaction with some locals there :

Jammu Railways Stations seems same , not much security presence & overall people were not tense and shops remain open till midnight around Railways station with security handled mostly by JKP & CRP personnels . In journey from Jammu to Katra saw lot of road projects under development with labor mostly from Bihar doing almost all of manual labor . Not many security checks except one all the way till Katra ( approx. 50kms from Jammu ) .Passed through cantonment area in Nagrota and didn't saw any Army or Police or any other patrol parties on the road but in cantonment all checkposts & watchtowers were manned by Armymen in BPJs & Phatkas and new insas 5.56 mm rifles. Again lot of business activity around Cantonment Area with not much tension seen on either locals or army personnels manning watchtowers ( inside cantonment boundaries ) .

In Katra , again security is entirely handled by JKP & CRP personnels but relaxed atmosphere and not too many to be seen around .
On way back passed through the town of Akhnoor via cantonment area and here you do feel the tension as the cab driver was tense till he cleared Akhnoor & on way from Katra to Akhnoor saw atleast 6-7 Army patrols near the Akhnoor town. Almost nil business activity/deserted look &closed shops near cantonment area around 4 pm so it does feel like things are tense around there .
Army personnels outside the cantonment boundaries while traveling either in Gypsies or on Bullet motorcycle were wearing BPJs & Phatkas and armed with Insas 5.56 mm rifles. They were also manning traffic check posts to coordinate the traffic and were very vigilant out there. Again road from Katra to Akhnoor to Jammu is in good shape atleast half of it , very wide and excellent conditions ( thnxx to BRO ! again wherever there was construction activity ,labor was mostly from Bihar ) .

Talked with driver and a few other locals , all hindus except one KM and following is what i understood from them :

1} Abdullahs are the icon of corruption in J&K and they have no hopes of any type from Omar , him being son of Farooq so no hope , it was unanimous opinion

2} 80% Govt. Jobs in their perception goes to Kashmiri Muslims and in 20% to Jammu Div. there too muslims from Jammu getting a fair share with Hindus & Sikhs getting less than 10% of Jobs.

3} In police jobs , muslims are given priority and even if they are not high school pass out all cuz of terrorism tag

4} Hindus & Sikhs are mostly highly educated and muslims have no interest in studies ,with few having interest in university education .

5} Most terrorists are local with TSPians one being only 1 out of 10 at best , again unanimous opinion/belief/ fact ( if so we have done a good psy ops job in this case )

6} Muslims in Jammu play the role of victim and threat of taking the case to court over false accusations of being muslim = terrorist tag making sure there's polarization btw muslims & rest .

7} After Abdullahs , JK Police is the next biggest icon of corruption and no good for any thing type organization ( unanimous opinion among all i talked with )

8} Army is very highly respected and heard not even a single complaint against them . Another interesting fact since MMS came to power , Army was told to 'go slow' in its operations so even where there is AFSPA in place , Army's operations are less intensive cuz of orders from Dilli .

9} J&K muslims are lazy and always asking for more even when they are earning enough . Taking to militancy for them is earning some quick money till they get selected in police or some other govt. job ( seems like a qualification criteria !) .In front of Govt. authorities they are pro -TSP to get more money & perks & when TSPians tried to control them they turned against them ( the story of Ikhwainis / turncoat terrorists ) I guess this is Kashmir Hand that Brigadier Ray talked about .

10} BSF again is seen in same light as that of JK Police. In nutshell IA is only organization tht commands respect among Jammu residents & fear in hearts of Muslims in J&K , rest are all for sale .( CRP personnels most had potbellies & looked in poor physical condition & none with BPJs ,armed mostly with carbines )

11} Abdullahs are known to be patrons of some of the biggest names in terrorist circles , as per local chaiwallah " woh sab dost hein ek saath peete hein " so to keep J&K pacified Abdullahs need to be in Chair nothing else.

12} As per a KM , either we fire 1000 rounds and get 2 bullets in head or we get str8 way 2 bullets in head and a few lucky ones get govt jobs after firing almost 1000 rounds , there's no 4th way there . Tried to talk more but he changed the topic. Govt. Job is the aim of all KMs , no business mindset at all.

13} Overheard conversations of a few Sales Representatives of FMCGs at Railway Station and they were using 'Azaad Kashmir ' word in normal conversation for PoK ,didn't had energy to argue with them and all were Punjabi Hindus.

sum · Post by **sum** » 02 Feb 2009 19:40

J&K muslims are lazy and always asking for more even when they are earning enough . Taking to militancy for them is earning some quick money till they get selected in police or some other govt. job ( seems like a qualification criteria !) .In front of Govt. authorities they are pro -TSP to get more money & perks & when TSPians tried to control them they turned against them ( the story of Ikhwainis / turncoat terrorists ) I guess this is Kashmir Hand that Brigadier Ray talked about .

This is the "root cause" of all problems. Im certain that its the same case in palestine also.

HariC · Post by **HariC** » 02 Feb 2009 21:55

JKLF's Yaseen Malik's soon-to-be wife

Quite a turnaround from his vow of celibacy

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 02 Feb 2009 21:56

HariC wrote:Quite a turnaround from his vow of celibacy

One in the hand is worth 72 in the bush