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Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

sum
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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby sum » 18 Feb 2009 19:43

Is it just me or are we slowly heading towards a joint probe which the Pakis have been blabbering about since day 1 and which India has been stoutly refusing?

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby sum » 18 Feb 2009 19:57

Time for some self back patting. After all, we have punished Pak so much that they will never think of attacking India again!! :roll: :roll:
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/war-with-pakistan-not-a-solution-pranab/425180/

War with Pakistan not a solution: Pranab


New Delhi: Government on Wednesday projected Islamabad's acknowledgment of its soil being used in the Mumbai Terror strikes as a major triumph and spoke of the futility of a war with Pakistan saying it would not solve the problem of terrorism.{ Guess we are done here. Time to restart and get back to "business as usual"}

External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee was replying to the debate on the Motion of Thanks on the President's address during which he sought to suggest that the Government has achieved much in the backdrop of the ‘failure’ of the BJP-led NDA regime after the Parliament attack.

"We did not mobilise a single soldier, we did not press the panic button, we did not lay mines on the border, but we said we expected Pakistan to fulfill its commitment," Mukherjee said in Lok Sabha.

His reference was apparently to the troop mobilization and military exercises as part of the 'Operation Parakram' during the NDA rule after the 2001 attack on Parliament.

"We were advised why can't we retaliate like some other countries are doing. Why don't you attack Pakistan," he said, asserting that the government believed that war with Pakistan would not solve the problem of terrorism.

"Diplomacy has paid. It has not failed. We said that the non-state actors (terrorists) were not coming from the heaven and they (Pakistan) have admitted (it)," he said.{clap, clap}

The motion was approved by the House after rejecting the Opposition amendments.

Absolute impotence at its best. Rejoice and celebrate at the crumbs thrown by Pak

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Dilbu » 18 Feb 2009 20:07

Admins please lock this thread. People are going to get banned unnecessarily if they respond to such statements from our GOI. :x

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Rishi » 18 Feb 2009 20:13

Dilbu wrote:Admins please lock this thread. People are going to get banned unnecessarily if they respond to such statements from our GOI. :x


:P

Nahi.. this dhaaga needs to be here

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby LokeshP » 18 Feb 2009 23:16

just when Advani was praising him, Pranabda decides to spoil the party. :rotfl:

on a more serious note, i think Pak will try its best to start some kind of joint probe or some such tripe before the elections, so the new govt, whichever party/coallition it is, will hopefully be pressured/forced/goaded into continuing with the same impotency in these matters. that's what Pak foreign ministry will be trying to do, so they can make sure India doesn't rear its ugly dark head

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Chandragupta » 18 Feb 2009 23:39

And then some of us blame Congress for treating Pranabda badly..

Such mentality from UPA is expected, this is what they stand for. Topi pahan ke topi pahnate hain. Exactly what they did during the Independence struggle & what they have been doing since the last 62 years, and it's never going to change.

Pakistan throws a few crumbs their side & the UPA goes orgasmic with excitement and unfurls the victory flag. I remember a story I read in primary school, of a foolish soldier who was in the middle of the war, safely sitting in his trench when he suddenly started hearing cries of help & peace from the enemy soldiers, determined to be the hero of the day who ends the war, he stood up & spotted a white flag. Overjoyed with the sight, the soldier, dismissing the pleas of his fellow men, marched into the open battlefield with his puffed chest & chin held high only to get shot in the head & die. Pakistan is playing the same game & by the looks of it, UPA is that foolish soldier who has left his trench far behind, but the only unfortunate difference in the story & reality is that whos would be the head that takes the bullet?

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby anupmisra » 19 Feb 2009 02:12

Pukistani admits Karachi and NWFP are not in Pukistan

Maulana Masood Azhar, Dawood Ibrahim not in Pakistan: Malik
Updated at: 2130 PST, Wednesday, February 18, 2009

LAHORE: Interior Advisor Rehman Malik Wednesday said Maulana Masood Azhar and Dawood Ibrahim are not in Pakistan and that no request has been received from India for their arrest. Aren't these two statements exclusive?

He said this while talking to media after the meeting of the Federal Cabinet in Lahore.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Pranay » 19 Feb 2009 17:38

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7898549.stm

In his interview with the BBC, Mr Chidambaram said the main terrorist threat to India came from abroad, but admitted that there were many cells of Islamic militants operating in the country.
Most of them were funded, trained and supported from abroad, in particular from Pakistan, he said.
Mr Chidambaram became home affairs minister in the wake of the Mumbai attacks.
He said he had set himself two tasks before the general election, due before May.
He said he wanted to make sure India was better prepared to deal with a terrorist attack and to respond to any future attack swiftly, decisively and in a deterrent manner.
Mr Chidambaram said there was an overall plan to challenge the very idea of India as an open secular and plural society.
"I can't connect all the dots, but it's quite clear that there is a plan to destabilise the country," he said.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby RajeshA » 19 Feb 2009 17:45

Pranay wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7898549.stm

Mr Chidambaram said there was an overall plan to challenge the very idea of India as an open secular and plural society.
"I can't connect all the dots, but it's quite clear that there is a plan to destabilise the country," he said.
:roll:

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby svinayak » 19 Feb 2009 20:54

sum wrote:Time for some self back patting. After all, we have punished Pak so much that they will never think of attacking India again!! :roll: :roll:
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/war-with-pakistan-not-a-solution-pranab/425180/

War with Pakistan not a solution: Pranab


External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee was replying to the debate on the Motion of Thanks on the President's address during which he sought to suggest that the Government has achieved much in the backdrop of the ‘failure’ of the BJP-led NDA regime after the Parliament attack.

"We did not mobilise a single soldier, we did not press the panic button, we did not lay mines on the border, but we said we expected Pakistan to fulfill its commitment,
" Mukherjee said in Lok Sabha.

Pakistan took the step now because they were forced to accept in 2002/2004 in an agreement that they would not allow terrorists within their borders. Now this govt can claim anything without mobilizing the army.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby ramana » 19 Feb 2009 22:05

Pranay wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7898549.stm

Mr Chidambaram said there was an overall plan to challenge the very idea of India as an open secular and plural society.
"I can't connect all the dots, but it's quite clear that there is a plan to destabilise the country," he said.


PC is wrong. Its the idea of India that is being challenged and not what he formulated. For his formulation clubs nationalists with the terrorists. I think thats the fundamental disconnect for he wont fight the real threat as he shadow boxes.

Raju

Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Raju » 19 Feb 2009 22:13

he can connect the dots, but feels squeamish in admitting to it publically. There were news reports a few days ago on who exactly was planning to destabilize India.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Bhaskar » 19 Feb 2009 23:58

I am sorry if this is off topic but there is a saying that "Laato ke bhoot, baaton se nahi mante". GOI clearly fails to understand this statement.
India did not win a diplomatic war, Pakistan won a psychological war. They will now bomb us even more as we took no action against them. The terrorists will see that their actions had no consequences, so they will keep doing this again and again...

By looking at the government right now, i doubt our government will do anything even if we are nuked, except running to the US and whining infront of Obama.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby ramana » 20 Feb 2009 01:18

Raju wrote:he can connect the dots, but feels squeamish in admitting to it publically. There were news reports a few days ago on who exactly was planning to destabilize India.

Must have missed it. Who exactly was it that they alluded to?

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby John Snow » 20 Feb 2009 03:38

While our fori gin Mantri Shitty Bitty is throwing the towel our NSA MK Narayanan is in ANATHA SAYANA(M) Padmanahan posture and meditating on the next avataram to save SG in Maatru Bhoomi! :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby vsudhir » 20 Feb 2009 04:23

ramana wrote:
Raju wrote:he can connect the dots, but feels squeamish in admitting to it publically. There were news reports a few days ago on who exactly was planning to destabilize India.

Must have missed it. Who exactly was it that they alluded to?


IMHO, its about the Michael Vickers saga and the neocon plans for subcontinent.


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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Amber G. » 20 Feb 2009 08:49

Sorry, if posted already:
Lashkar-e-Taiba ringleaders had ambitions well beyond causing mayhem in India, the Guardian has learned...

Mumbai attackers had hit list of 320 world targets
The plotters behind the Mumbai attack, which left more than 170 people dead, had placed India's financial capital on a list of 320 worldwide locations as potential targets for commando-style terror strikes, the Guardian has learned.

It suggests that Lashkar-e-Taiba, the outlawed terror group that planned much of the attack from Pakistan, had ambitions well beyond causing mayhem in India.

Western intelligence agencies have accessed the computer and email account of Lashkar's communications chief, Zarar Shah, and found a list of possible targets, only 20 of which were in India.
....

The US has been trying behind the scenes to co-ordinate intelligence exchanges between the two nuclear-armed rivals. The CIA has worked hard to be seen to help New Delhi – including by recovering phone numbers deleted by the terrorists on their satellite phones.
...
There has been some speculation that raids in Spain which netted 12 men – an Indian and 11 Pakistanis – were a result of the investigations into Lashkar's role in the Mumbai attacks.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby John Snow » 20 Feb 2009 09:59

Sorry to put it bluntly (also read Shiv Garus thread) It is axiomatic to conclude that US interests and interests of India do not coincide when it comes to tackling terror against India. India is expendable to preserve the US interests for US deeply cares for its citizens unlike India. If any one thinks its otherwise its at their own peril nad hard way to learning.

Based on recent GOI response or lac thereof to mumbai massacare Vickers already has penetrated Indian security establishment for all we know.

Raju

Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Raju » 21 Feb 2009 22:28

2. Assistant Secretary of Defense for Special Operations, Low-Intensity Conflict and Interdependent Capabilities. This obscure job is as much a mouthful as it is critical. As the Pentagon’s principal outpost for irregular warfare, the directorate formerly known by the awkward acronym SO/LIC (it’s now “SO/LIC & IC” on the Pentagon org-chart) has emerged as a hotbed of unconventional thinking — much as the Office of Net Assessment was for a previous generation of tech-crazy defense wonks.

Earlier this year, one of its recent acting chiefs, Joseph Collins, published a scathing study of the Iraq war, calling it a “major debacle.” Collins was at SO/LIC & IC for the invasion, making him a rare veteran of the Rumsfeld Pentagon to publicly describe the war so harshly.

Perhaps unsurprisingly, then, the new generation of theorist-practitioners who specialize in counterinsurgency have gravitated to the office. Prominent counterinsurgents like Janine Davidson and Celeste Ward recently worked there, and the idea for an interagency network of irregular-warfare specialists grew out of their efforts. At a recent counterinsurgency conference, attendees from across the military services wanted to know whether a high-profile counterinsurgent like retired Army officer John Nagl would become its new assistant secretary or deputy assistant secretary in charge, auguring another advance by the counterinsurgents along the corridors of power.

If, as expected, scholars from the Center for a New American Security think tank make their way into Obama’s Pentagon, SO/LIC & IC would be their natural home.


http://washingtonindependent.com/20124/ ... s-to-watch

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby sum » 23 Feb 2009 20:11

Actual tapes of terror handlers and pigs conversations being played in "headlines today" channel with Shiv Aroor in the panel discussing it....

Absolutely chilling stuff, esp the way the handlers micromanage the show from so far away and liberally use military terminology.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby SSridhar » 23 Feb 2009 21:21

It is indeed chilling. My heart goes out to the Israeli mother who is heard on the tapes. The handler is a top notch guy in terror. He is able to think about various angles and instantly react to requests and developing situations. He speaks very good English and as Gen. Shankar Roy Chowdhry said, he was a TSPA officer. That could not have been Lakhvi or Zarar Shah. However, I am unable to think that the terrorists who came to Mumbai were 'cheap quality' just because they were asking their handler directions/permissions for every little thing. The Pakistanis submit themselves to power completely and that was the characteristic these terrorists were demonstrating.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Tamang » 23 Feb 2009 21:48

So they were indeed getting latest movements from the live feed (on news channels). :evil:

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby sum » 23 Feb 2009 21:55

More tapes to be played at 11 PM IST.

Do try to catch em,folks....

Transcripts played out so far(which i saw):

* Handlers instructing pigs in Taj to set fire to the building
* Handlers giving pep talk to the turds holed up in Nariman house
* Handlers giving amzingly prescise military methods to battle thefast approaching NSG
* Handler asking Taj pig to target cars,people outside the building using grenades.
* Turd in Nariman house negotiating with a Israeli diplomat based in the US via a (Indian??) translator.

Btw, was the Israeli embassy contacting the terrorists ever mentioned earlier:?: :?: The terrorists seemed to have opened this line of communciation with the Israelis to get Kasab freed , going by the tapes (India seems to have strictly followed the no-negotiation policy).

Also very evident from the tapes is the amazing help the media provided to the handlers to get a feel of the situation and guide the animals inside according to the situation developing outside which was being relayed live by the DDM. :x
Last edited by sum on 23 Feb 2009 22:20, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby sum » 23 Feb 2009 21:57

The 11 PM tapes will show the Handler instructing the terrorists on how to kill the hostages, according to the host( and many more apparently since they have managed to get hold of 7 hours worth of intercepts :eek: :eek: ).

PS: This Headlines Today channel seems to have some pretty amazing stories(esp related to Pak) all the time!!!!! Have to keep a eye on this channel in the future.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Lalmohan » 23 Feb 2009 22:38

is this 'leak' to the media deliberate? the emphasis on organisation a means to persuade reluctant paks to start moving their butts?

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby John Snow » 23 Feb 2009 22:54

This brings out the fact that TSP could use unskilled untrained human predators from so far away right under the nose of NSA in HQ of FOC in C Western command jurisdiction.

No wonder we are not ready for war or pay back in sending few good men to pay in the same coin.
Jai Mera Bharat Mahan.
Oh by the way thank yo Anantha sayanam MK Narayanan.
Last edited by John Snow on 23 Feb 2009 23:07, edited 1 time in total.

Raju

Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Raju » 23 Feb 2009 23:03

From the tapes it is clear that it was a mercenary operation and not a purely jehadi operation with vast previous preparation. The masterminds have covered their tracks by using Pakistani handlers.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby John Snow » 24 Feb 2009 00:20

The Govt OF TSP, its TSP Army, Taliban, Alqaeda and ISI are all one and the same.
Applying Principle of uncertinity
If you look for Taliban you lose othe identities
If you look for ISI you lose other identities
If you look for Alqaeda you lose Taliban and other identities
etc etc

as N guru ages ago put it

"destroy TSP give peace a chance" there is no via media....

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby ramana » 24 Feb 2009 00:22

John Snow wrote:The Govt OF TSP, its TSP Army, Taliban, Alqaeda and ISI are all one and the same.
Applying Principle of uncertinity
If you look for Taliban you lose othe identities
If you look for ISI you lose other identities
If you look for Alqaeda you lose Taliban and other identities
etc etc

as N guru ages ago put it

"destroy TSP give peace a chance" there is no via media....



That is our mission to highlight this fact.

We should work on an alternative to help them reconcile with this fact.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Rangudu » 24 Feb 2009 00:27


NRao
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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby NRao » 24 Feb 2009 00:36

The Govt OF TSP, its TSP Army, Taliban, Alqaeda and ISI are all one and the same.


You better add US Central Command and Holbrooke before you become out dated in think tank circles.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby John Snow » 24 Feb 2009 00:40

I believe in toyota quality method of incrimental upgrades, if I add unkil and others to the list the task becomes daunting and we get into helpless ness mode, as it is we are in slumber even after Mumbai. We can start our pin priks then make the life of aunties miserable along with our dear Pakis life
Last edited by John Snow on 24 Feb 2009 01:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Amber G. » 24 Feb 2009 00:55

Turd in Nariman house negotiating with a Israeli diplomat based in the US via a (Indian??) translator.

Sum - may be already known here, but there was a (long) story in NY times about how Rabbi Levi Shemtov (of NY Chabad house) in NY talked ...and found/contacted a Hindi/marathi/urdu speaking person to call back on the phone... he gave a long version of what happened in those conversazione ...

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Muppalla » 24 Feb 2009 01:12

Headlines Today is noting but Aajtak. Now the Hindi version is coming in Aajtak while HT shifted to Slumdog. After two hours it will be resumed again on HT. A total of seven hour tape is being shown.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby ramana » 24 Feb 2009 01:20

AajTak is on DishNetwork the last couple of weeks. And its amazing the amount of TSP knowldege being released. Its like they took the gloves off.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby NRao » 24 Feb 2009 01:34

Its like they took the gloves off.


Seems to have accelerated after the Holbrook trip and his very weak response.

Also, they all are about to convene in DC too.

Raju

Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Raju » 24 Feb 2009 01:44

India needs to only speak through media, there is no need for any official 'statements' on this issue anymore.

My main concern is since the masterminds were busy working both sides before and after the op. After the op they claimed to be busy helping the victim country after making sure that it would not jump attack the perpetrator nation. So they got a true feel of the pain level, threshold of tolerance etc.

this can be then be finetuned to launch the next attack that crosses these levels and makes response to their satisfaction. There is going to be another massive attack after a cooling off period until the mastermind is convinced of a response against it.

who would have arranged for training a few juveniles in a highly risky operation .. most-likely a middle-man. The true-blue lashkar/ISI jehadi combo would have access to far better resources than this esp since they have been in the terror business for so long.

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Rampy » 24 Feb 2009 02:07

An Article by M D Nalapat

found it very interesting
http://www.jinsa.org/node/925
Should the Mumbai attacks of November 26, 2008 be replicated in America, the resulting loss of confidence in public security may be severe enough to affect consumer behavior. Although George W. Bush has been panned for asking Americans to spend after 9-11, it is a reality that the ability of the United States to come out of its current difficulties will hinge on the American consumer acting both free and brave, something possible only in a secure environment. Success against terror will need an understanding of the evolving chemistries in South Asia, especially that of Pakistan, Bangladesh and India

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Re: Indian Non-response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Postby Chinmayanand » 24 Feb 2009 02:11

It's so timid of GoI showing the public what they know instead of showing the action they should have taken. :(( :(( :((
These mofos ,instead of ,releasing 7 hr tapes on Headlines Today should have atleast done a seven hour bombing on bakistan.
Can anyone find how much GoI was part of this conspiracy?Americans played it smart , from tipping off India months in advance to burrying this entire issue dead.I don't expect anything from these politicians and the bureaucrats but even the armed forces have let this country down. :P


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