Indus Water Treaty

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 30 Jan 2009 13:41

SSridhar wrote:The 2005 earthquake, the abduction and killing of Chinese engineers and the overall security situation don't help the matter either for Pakistan.

The rearing the Army of Islam is really paying strategic dividends to Pakistan now!

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 30 Jan 2009 22:43

Withdraw from Indus treaty
by M.S. Menon

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20090130/edit.htm#7

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 31 Jan 2009 00:52

SSridhar wrote:To the best of my knowledge, there is no financial closure for the Neelum-Jhelum project on the Pakistani side. The project is over USD 2 Billion and in the financial situation that obtains now, Pakistan will not be able to close it for quite sometime to come.

One thing to note is that the TSP has been collecting a surcharge of 10 paise per unit on power for at least the last year. This money has no doubt disappeared into the chronic deficits the government is running. In any case it does not matter if there IS financial closure.

A 47km tunnel through multiple geologic fault zones is not the easiest one to build. Note the problems we are having building the tunnels for the Kashmir Railway which are now under realignment.

This tunnel will not be completed in our lifetimes. TSP has no experience of building on this scale, esp. a tunnel and despite the Chinese presence most of the building will actually have to be done by the natives.

Hell, even India would seriously struggle.

TSP's aim (as usual) is to save H&D.

Note that if TSP agreed to co-operate and build the tunnel to drop the water south into the Kashmir valley (like India is doing), they could actually cut the tunnel to about 8km or so and share the power generated. This is a far more realistic project. No mention of that by anyone.

As far as withdrawing from the Indus Treaty, there is no need for it. We have still not even begun to use the Western rivers to the maximum extent allowed under the treaty. By my last calculation another 11 large Dams are planned on the Chenab and its tributaries by India. Diverting the Jhelum or the Chenab will actually cause more damage to the existing projects and schemes we have on these rivers.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 03 Feb 2009 02:51

Here are some projects announced on the Chenab and its tributaries.

Planning/Construction

- Karthoi 900MW
- Kiru 600MW
- Pakaldul 1000MW
- Karwa 520MW
- Ratal 560MW
- Shamnot 370MW
- Bursar 1000MW
- Baglihar II 400MW

Completed

- Salal 400MW
- Baglihar 400MW
- Karthoi Stage 1 - 240 MW

More projects are planned and on the way.
At least a dozen more in Himachal alone.

The Chenab is thought to have a potential of 15,000 MW in Himachal and J&K.

So far projects have only been announced for about a third of this amount.

Also additional flood control storage type projects are allowed.

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 09 Feb 2009 08:24

India constructing three dams on Indus river in held Kashmir

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 10 Feb 2009 02:24

shynee wrote:India constructing three dams on Indus river in held Kashmir

The construction of these dams in Ladakh region to produce 219 megawatt of electricity has already started in clear violation of the Indus Water Treaty and ignoring the fragile environment of Ladakh region to meet the demand of the Indian Army deployed at Siachen glacier.

Is this true or just typical twisted paki logic and misinformation again?

vics · Post by **vics** » 12 Feb 2009 21:46

[quote="Vivek_A"]Pakistan to raise river pollution issue with Delhi

By Iftikhar Gilani

[
Shah had also been quoted as saying that the water level in the rivers is low, particularly during the winters when only filth flows to Pakistan.

[/b] He is not the only one raising the alarm over pollution in Himalayan rivers. The J&K Pollution Control Board too confirms the increasing deterioration of water quality in Jhelum, the lifeline for the Kashmir Valley.

Kya kare minister sahib...

Can't help it as filth knows in which direction to flow

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 14 Feb 2009 23:28

Considerable heart burn is leading to downright lies on the dams under construction in India.

Saturday, February 14, 2009
By By Khalid Mustafa

ISLAMABAD: The three dams being built by India on River Indus could play havoc in Northern Areas of Pakistan if the said reservoirs collapse for any reason intentionally or unintentionally releasing huge quantum of water causing flash floods that could devastate large swathes of land in Pakistan.

The Skardu city is to be the first victim and its airport that is only 17 to 18 meter high from Indus bed, would be submerged. The 282 Kilometer section of Karakoram Highway (KKH) from Besham to Jaglot having total length 806 Kilometer from Hasanabdal to Khunjarab would be washed away along with all bridges.

The said dams have exposed the Diamer-Bhasha Dam to danger, a senior official disclosed this to The News quoting the information contained in the Annexure A of the letter faxed to Prime Minister, and Federal Minister of Water and Power and environment by Arshad H Abbasi, Visiting Research fellow SDPI Islamabad.

“India is constructing large dams on River Indus, which include Nimoo Bazgo with height 57-metre, Dumkhar of 42 meters height and “Chutak” dam 59 meters height to basically generate hydropower. Three dams can store water up to 120,000,000 cubic meters. India’s dam-failure record has been worst, as nine of its dams have so far collapsed,” he said.

The scribe when contacted Sardar Aseff Ahmed Ali Deputy Chairman Planning Commission for comments over the development he said: “The concerns in your startling information earlier published in The News is well taken and this will be provided to the concerned department to take up this issue with authorities concerned in Pakistan as to whether the projects are being made by India on River Indus are in line with Indus Waters Treaty or not and the impact of the said dams on Pakistan’s areas if the dams collapsed.”

To a question he said that Kalabagh Dam has been deferred not shelved forever. The fast pace construction of Neelum-Jhelum Hydropower project has also been kicked off to establishing committed water uses on Rive Jhelum.

So we are working but as far as the erection of dams on Indus by India is concerned, Planning Commission is not mandated to look upon this very issue. However, he being Deputy Chairman of Planning Commission would take up this issue with concerned authorities in Pakistan.

This scribe failed despite two days of efforts to make contact with Shahid Rafi, Secretary Water and Power seeking comments over the issue.

When contacted Syed Jamaat Ali Shah, Pakistan Commissioner of Indus Waters said that his department is aware of the development and said that India can make the projects on run of the river(Ouch that hurts). When asked as to whether he ever visited the site where India has kicked of physical construction, he said not yet. “We would like to go there when the tension between India and Pakistan following the Bombay attacks ease,” he said.

When asked that these projects have been substantially constructed and why Pakistani experts team has not so far visited the site, Shah argued that under the Treaty India is obliged to give information about the projects and we have received the information. He said whenever the tension will ease Pakistan’s experts would visit the site of the said dams.

When asked that India have worst ever track record of dams’ failure, he said: “We do not need to be worried as India is now introducing the modern technology in building the dams.”

However, the letter faxed to the government says that even in the modern history of dams, India has the worst record in dams’ failure. As many as nine dams of India have so far collapsed and the failure the latest was Jaswant Sagar Dam of 43.38 meters height that collapsed in July 2007 (Think what the SDRE constructed dam collapse can do

)

Pakistan being on low riparian side is exposed to massive annihilation if the said three dams collapse.The Nimoo Bazgo Hydro Power (HE) Project is situated at village Alchi, 70 kilometers from Leh and construction work is at full swing.

Dumkhar HE Project is proposed to generate 130 MW by construction of 42-meter high dam. The project site is located at about 128 Km from Leh on Leh-Khalsi Batalik road. And Hydroelectric Project “Chutak” is under construction on River Suru, (a major tributary of Indus River in Indian held Kashmir) to harness 44 MW initially in Kargil district by construction of 59-metre-high concrete Dam. Failure of Banqiao dam in China in August 1975 caused a 10 km wide and up to 23 ft high wave rushing downwards to the plains at nearly 50 km per hour killing 26,000 people from flooding and another 145,000 from subsequent epidemics and famine.

BajKhedawal · Post by **BajKhedawal** » 15 Feb 2009 00:23

Vipul wrote:120,000,000 cubic meters. India’s dam-failure record has been worst, as nine of its dams have so far collapsed,” he said.

“We would like to go there when the tension between India and Pakistan following the Bombay attacks ease,” he said. {Yeah, like that's gonna ever happen}

Pakistan being on low riparian side is exposed to massive annihilation if the said three dams collapse.......

from subsequent epidemics and famine.

Vipul if any of the aforementioned dams fail as feared by Khalidmia and they will since

“India have worst ever track record of dams’ failure”

coincidentally they may fail at the height of the said tension periods. I am sure GOI will be more than willing to donate millions of cans of water in aid to Pukestan, of course we will remove the “Made in India” label just as we did in POK earthquake aid so as not to hurt the sensitivity of the Pakis.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 15 Feb 2009 00:53

Bakistanians being low RAPE arian age
Gau Jal Kola shall be distributed free to our Baki birathers .

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 15 Feb 2009 11:11

Zardari claims PRC credit of USD 449 M for its Neelum-Jhelum Project

A meeting presided over by President Asif Ali Zardari was informed on Saturday that China has agreed to provide $449 million as supplier’s credit for the Neelum Jhelum hydroelectric project and an agreement to this affect will be inked by May this year.

WAPDA Chairman Shakeel Durrani said the Neelum-Jhelum Hydroelectric project would inject 969MW power into the national grid. He said a letter of intent had been issued to a Chinese company to build the over-$2 billion 1,100MW Kohala power project on build, operate and transfer (BOT) basis. He said a detailed feasibility and engineering drawing for the Kohala power project would be ready by August.

Following the briefings, the president emphasised the need for stepping up efforts to utilise Chinese experience regarding power generation; agriculture; and water usage.

Ambassador of China to Pakistan Luo Zhaohui also attended the meeting by special invitation.

BajKhedawal · Post by **BajKhedawal** » 15 Feb 2009 11:45

Prem wrote:Bakistanians being low RAPE arian age
Gau Jal Kola shall be distributed free to our Baki birathers .

Oh yes I am sure RSS would oblige, so as to cleanse the long lost in the mela birathers. But I think the pakistanis being TFTA need a heavier strength cola Gau jal won’t do, ages ago in a thread now hallaled there was this mystic remedy if my memory serves me right it was enquob-ud-din cola? And the delivery system was via upstream Indus River. Very convenient only.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 19 Feb 2009 10:42

India is at war

. . . Jinnah called Kashmir the main life-sustaining artery of Pakistan . . . . This surreptitious undeclared war by India is employing artificial water scarcity as the weapon for annihilation of Pakistan's Federation. . . . . ICID (International Commission for Irrigation and Drainage) is a dangerous weapon. While it conceals the increased inflow due to global warning/glacier retreat it influences the World Bank and other multi-laterals to deny Pakistan vital financing for its large dams by declaring the northern areas of Pakistan as part of the "disputed" region of Jammu and Kashmir. Classic Chankian tactics. . . . Swastika the Hindu symbol of "the war-god" was also used by the Nazi Third Reich as it pursued its genocidal agenda during the Second World War. The rice of the RSS and fanatical Hindu organisations has accelerated in the last decades. 'India Is At War'. . . . All major issues of Pakistan today are a direct result of India's ongoing campaign to destabilise Pakistan's economy through the diversion of its surface waters. . . . The Indian factor; its interference in our Indus Basin flows (directly and indirectly) has already inflicted since 1974 a loss of over US$1 trillion plus on Pakistan's nascent economy. . . . The real face of the nation that claims to be the planet's biggest democracy "and adherents of Ahinsa" is the unacceptable face of a fanatical mass murderer who operates by stealth.

Allah-o-Akbar . . . To war with India

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 19 Feb 2009 16:14

India has launched in 2006 the world's largest single irrigation project estimated to cost over US$212 billion. This river linking project is clearly predicating the theft of Pakistan's waters flowing through Jammu and Kashmir.

From the above mentioned link..

Have we started the river linking project in actuality?

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 19 Feb 2009 16:18

Chiron wrote:
India has launched in 2006 the world's largest single irrigation project estimated to cost over US$212 billion. This river linking project is clearly predicating the theft of Pakistan's waters flowing through Jammu and Kashmir.
From the above mentioned link..

Have we started the river linking project in actuality?

Nope as ususual paki paranoia

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 19 Feb 2009 17:16

ravi_ku wrote:Nope as ususual paki paranoia

hehe, I so wish they were right... We should start that project. It may be expensive, but it will pay great great dividends for long long time.. I guess Indians won't have to eat grass to ensure that this project becomes a reality..

and since it will be in stages, we won't have to pump in $212 billion in one go.. It can go on for 12 years in stages where cost-recovery gradually begins in stages.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 19 Feb 2009 21:19

^Chiron, And what exactly are we going to achieve with those alleged irrigation projects?

Free apples for "export" to PoK?

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 20 Feb 2009 00:47

Avinash R wrote:^Chiron, And what exactly are we going to achieve with those alleged irrigation projects?

Free apples for "export" to PoK?

Who cares about Pakis? Imagine the growth in agriculture if all rivers in India are linked with each other... 70% of Indian economy will receive a booster dose. More money, more power, more options to exercise the power.. plus, comparatively happy people..

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 20 Feb 2009 22:44

The Centre on Friday gave into demands by environmentalists and said that it was suspending work on a dam on the upper reaches of the Bhagirithi river.

In fact, it was a man's hunger strike that forced the Centre to stop work on a dam.

Veteran environmentalist G D Agarwal had two demands: Clean up the Ganga and stop building massive dams which could leave at least 60 kilometers of the river virtually dry.

After almost 37 days of being on a hunger strike, a letter from the Centre informed Dr Agarwal that it was asking NTPC to immediately stop work.

Gandhigiri very much alive in the land of the Mahatama as Agarwal finally broke his fast.

"I thank the PM for his involvement and for issuing the orders," he said.

Last year, the Uttrakhand government had shelved two big dam projects. But state-run National thermal power corporation had continued building the dam at Lohari Nag Pala in Uttrakhand conservationists say the focus should be on smaller dams which do not dramatically alter the course of the river.

"I hope it does not end here and we can make the Ganga, our national river cleaner and free flowing," Agarwal says.

Professor Agarwal may have forced the government's hand for now, but it could be a temporary victory. The Centre is yet to take a final call.

http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/st ... 0090084230

BajKhedawal · Post by **BajKhedawal** » 21 Feb 2009 00:53

Chiron wrote:Who cares about Pakis? Imagine the growth in agriculture if all rivers in India are linked with each other... 70% of Indian economy will receive a booster dose. More money, more power, more options to exercise the power.. plus, comparatively happy people..

I don’t know this but am assuming that apart from irrigation an enhanced water transport network would be a welcome economical by-product of the River linking scheme, no?

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 21 Feb 2009 00:56

BajKhedawal wrote:
Chiron wrote:Who cares about Pakis? Imagine the growth in agriculture if all rivers in India are linked with each other... 70% of Indian economy will receive a booster dose. More money, more power, more options to exercise the power.. plus, comparatively happy people..
I don’t know this but am assuming that apart from irrigation an enhanced water transport network would be a welcome economical by-product of the River linking scheme, no?

Small boats, yes... I don't think most of the canals will big enough to accommodate boats more than 25 seats.. even that is worth it.. totally... But transport will decrease the potability of water..

BajKhedawal · Post by **BajKhedawal** » 21 Feb 2009 06:07

I agree, there would be pollution and contamination but on the pro side there will be a slew of local river side economies flourishing. Just like road side economies such as vegetable/fruit farm outlets by owners, dhaba’s, tea stalls, hotels, mechanic, and inter village commerce. Further as you indicated if the canal size restricts traffic that would be a blessing in disguise too.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 21 Feb 2009 06:29

The suggestions mentioned can also be a boost for tourism. You go on a house boat from North India all the way to South India.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 22 Feb 2009 16:19

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holn ... 221571.htm

Pakistan wants to send its experts to the site of dams being built by India on the Indus river in the Ladakh region to assess whether the projects are in compliance with the provisions of a water-sharing treaty. The armed forces were reportedly alarmed that the projects could "play havoc with the Northern Areas" if the dams "collapsed for any reason or malfunction", 'The News' daily reported.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 25 Feb 2009 03:29

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... ter-wars/1

Maha Mad Jahil
India is constructing large dams on River Indus, which include Nimoo Bazgo with a height of 57-metre, Dumkhar of 42 metres height and Chutak Dam of 59 metres height to basically generate hydropower. The huge quantum of water to be stored in the three dams could play havoc in the northern areas of Pakistan if the reservoirs either collapse for any reason or New Delhi intentionally or unintentionally releases the huge quantity of water. It was decided that the matter should be taken up at government level with India, and if the dispute remains unresolved by both the governments, then a neutral expert should be moved. Pakistan had suffered a loss exceeding five billion rupees in paddy crop production only in the wake of water shortage after India stopped Chenab water to fill its Baglihar Dam during the month of

But those who think that India could make Pakistan a desert through river diversion plans do not understand that there may not be a war on Kashmir but there could be a water war between two nuclear states, which could be disastrous for both the countries. The Indus River Basin has been an area of conflict between India and Pakistan for about four decades. Spanning 1,800 miles, the river and its tributaries together make up one of the largest irrigation canals in the world. Dams and canals built in order to provide

Its importance can be realised from the fact that settled agricultural systems were developed along the Nile, Tigris, Euphrates and Indus valleys, which led to permanent settlements; then to cities, city-states and nation states. The easy acquisition of food led to the division of labour, cultivation of arts, sciences, trade and trade routes, dispersion of knowledge, writing, banking and accounting; and also to insecurity, greed, crime and warfare. Historical evidence suggests ( This is Kuffar in praise of jahiliya Man came to know about fire with the advent of Islam in Arabia )
Usual Paki Small Man Envy

India should, however, understand that if it resorts to foul play and tries to strangulate Pakistan by diverting water resources, or tries to fan parochialism in Pakistan's provinces, or tries to move into Sindh to separate it from the rest of the country, Pakistan has the capacity to adequately respond to the threats, and will not sit quiet on any of its 'initiatives'. India should understand that Pakistan is neither Nepal nor any of the other countries of South Asia but an atomic power. And if war is imposed on Pakistan, there would be no concept of the victor or the vanquished.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Mar 2009 14:14

India stored water in Baglihar causing water shortage in TSP Cuckooland

India had stored 200,000 acre-feet of water for the initial filling of the Baglihar Hydroelectric Plant during August and September 2008 – about 130th of the average inflow of the River Chenab {and yet it cause severe shortage ?} – and the move affected agricultural crops especially rice, the National Assembly was told on Saturday.

In a written response to a question by Sabeen Rizvi, Water and Power Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf said the Pakistan commissioner for Indus waters took up the matter seriously as India had violated the Indus Water Treaty. He said that India began filling the Baglihar Dam without informing Pakistan and inflow in Chenab was reduced to less than the minimum requirement of 55,000 cusecs.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Mar 2009 12:44

Security Concerns delay India's Kishenganga Project

Work on the recently approved 330-megawatt Kishangaga power project on the Neelam River in Indian-held Kashmir may get delayed because looming security threats have forced the Indian government to toughen the guidelines for the participation of foreign companies in hydropower projects close to borders.

The decision was made in a high-level meeting chaired by National Security Adviser MK Narayanan in the Prime Minister’s Office last month.

Soon after the cabinet’s approval, the executing agency New Delhi-owned National Hydroelectric Power Corporation (NHPC) had awarded contracts jointly to India’s leading construction infrastructure company Hindustan Construction Company (HCC) and British firm Halcrow Group.

The Cabinet Committee on Economic Affairs (CCEA) had earlier approved a cost of Rs 36.42 billion, revised from Rs 22.39 billion. Officials said the security guidelines were being made tough because most of the hydroelectric projects are in sensitive areas like Kashmir, Sikkim and the North-East and often involve firms from China, Korea, Russia and Europe working as contractors or subcontractors.

Narayanan has even asked the Ministry of Power to include a ‘preamble’ to existing guidelines on hydroelectric projects involving foreign firms.

“The NSA has laid down three basic precepts in the preamble for each hydropower project. The aim is to weed out chances of such projects becoming a potential national threat,” an official said.

“Any hydropower project, whether in the private or public sector, which is within a 50 km distance from the Indian side of the border, with foreign participation of any form, will need prior security clearance,” says the suggested preamble.

The document says prior clearance is also necessary in the case of similar hydroelectric projects being set up in certain sensitive locations even if these are away from the border.

Specific guidelines will be drawn up later, in consultation with the Home Ministry, to define the sensitive zones.

“Other security aspects of hydropower projects such as ensuring safety and security of structures such as dams, tunnels etc also need to be kept in view,” said the document that insists on pre-contract discussions on issues linked to security.

The NHPC had hired Halcrow to execute the planning, design and management services for the Kishangaga project. The Indian HCC was awarded contracts for engineering, procurement and construction of all items including civil and associated infrastructure works; supply, installation, testing and commissioning of all electromechanical plants and machinery and hydromechanical components.

After the November 26 Mumbai attacks, the central government in India had asked all state governments to step up security for all large dams following intelligence reports that at least six dams in Punjab and Himachal Pradesh were under terror threat.

Sources said that the external intelligence agency, the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), had informed the Home Ministry of an alleged terrorist plan hatched allegedly by the Jaish-e-Muhammad and the Lashkar-e-Tayyaba to launch a coordinated operation to take control of dams.

These dams include the Gobind Sagar reservoir on the Sutlej, Pandoh on the Beas and Chamera on the Ravi, the sources said. The Maharana Pratap Sagar project in Kangra and the Nathpa hydroelectric project are also under threat, they said.

Immediately after the input, a meeting chaired by the power secretary sought security from the Central Industrial Security Forces.

The intelligence inputs had referred to a plot to take charge of equipment in the control rooms of the dams, sources said. Once the controls are in hostile hands, the floodgates could be opened to wreak havoc, the agencies have warned.

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 18 Mar 2009 13:51

Instead of just storing water why don't we also release them at opportune times to drown the pigs? If there is a terrorist attack on dams then the first step should be to flood pakistan, no matter what.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 Mar 2009 18:12

TSP wants to solve water issues with India bilaterally

Pakistan wants to resolve the water issue with India bilaterally and in accordance with the Indus Water Treaty, Indus Water Commissioner Jamaat Ali Shah said on Friday.

Talking to a private TV channel, Shah recalled that Pakistan had requested the World Bank for appointing neutral experts on Baglihar Dam, adding that Pakistan had accepted the verdict of the experts on the issue.

He said the decision on Wuller Barrage was still pending, while Pakistan also had reservations over the Kishanganga Hydropower Project. He urged India to resolve the water issue with Pakistan without wasting time.

This is a particular Pakistani trait, to sound pompous, demanding and behave like a conquering nation even when they are at the receiving end. After the 1971 defeat when ZAB came to India to negotiate the release of the 93k soldiers and return of lands, the PA gave him a note on what he should demand and how he should conduct the negotiations. One would think, if one reads it, that PA had roundly defeated IA and was negotiating from a position of massive strength.

In the above, the PIC is urging the upper riparian India to resolve the water issues which are Pakistan's creation of a feverish and delirious mind, 'without wasting time'. Pray, what will happen if India wasted time?

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 22 Mar 2009 05:14

Our waters?

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=168463

Sharing our waters
Sunday, March 22, 2009
World Water Day, being marked on 22nd March around the world, focuses this year on transboundary water. The issue is of immense significance to Pakistan, given the dispute over the use of water in its rivers that has continued with India since 1947. The past year saw bitter accusations of dam-construction activities by India blocking off the supply of water to Pakistan. The Jehlum River, whose waters Pakistan has rights to under the 1965 Indus Water Basin Treaty, is among those affected. So too is the picturesque Neelum River that flows through the valley by the same name in Azad Kashmir.

All our major rivers originate in India. This has many potential political, military and humanitarian repercussions. Water is a basic human need; no living creature can survive without it. There is something immoral about using it to extract tactical mileage as has happened far too often in the context of the sub-continent, with New Delhi using the fact that it controls sources of water as a means to pressurize Pakistan. It has also been repeatedly guilty of violating the terms of agreements, forcing international mediators to step in.

This situation must be ended. Water must not be used in this fashion. An understanding on the issue is needed with India – particularly as resource of unpolluted water dwindle alarmingly in Pakistan. International agencies warn the country may within years face a drought-like situation. This must be avoided. But the only way to do so is to build closer ties with India and develop the spirit of cooperation both countries need in order to progress.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 22 Mar 2009 10:08

There is something immoral about using it(Water) to extract tactical mileage

Ah! Killing women and kids, bombing innocent people is Kosher I guess. I wont miss a heartbeat if the whole Pakistan turns into Sahara desert.

sum · Post by **sum** » 22 Mar 2009 15:44

I really think that Pakis are like the boy who cried wolf.

Just be repeatedly howling away when there was nothing to howl about, the have ensured zero credibility for themselves.

When big bad India does actually start acting (and bringing Paki worst fears to life), one one will give a damn to Paki pleas at that time thinking it is one of usual Paki whines...

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 24 Mar 2009 07:23

http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=21115

Kishanganga project: Pakistan serves notice on India

Tuesday, March 24, 2009

By Khalid Mustafa

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan has served notice on India over the controversial 330 MW Kishanganga hydropower project after all efforts to resolve the issue at the level of Permanent Commission of Indus Waters (PCIW) failed, saying it is now left with no option but to move the neutral expert.

“We had served the notice on India some ten days back after exhausting all endeavours mentioned in the Indus Waters Treaty at PCIW level to resolve the issue, but India is hell bent upon negating the treaty by diverting the water flows for hydrogeneration which is destined to reach Pakistan,” a senior official at the ministry of water and power told The News.

India is constructing Kishanganga hydropower project on Ganga tributary near Bandipur in Baramullah district in held Kashmir. The said tributary is called Neelum River when it enters Pakistan and India is diverting water of Neelum River (Ganga River) to Wullar Lake to generate electricity, but Pakistan objects that diversion of water by India is not allowed under the 1960 Indus Waters Treaty. Pakistan is building Neelum-Jhelum Hydropower project on Neelum River in Azad Kahsmir.

Both sides discussed the thorny issue on July 29, 2008 in New Delhi under PCIW in the last-ditch effort to resolve the dispute at the commission level, but the talks ended in failure. Soon after the meeting, Syed Jamaat Ali Shah, leader of the Pakistan’s delegation, told the Indian media in New Dehli that Islamabad would decide the next course of action after further consultations.

“Now after the passage of seven months, the Pakistan Commission of Indus Water has served notice on India, informing New Delhi that Islamabad is to move a neutral expert to seek justice.” The official said Pakistan’s Commissioner of Indus Water Syed Jamaat Ali Shah has sent the notice to his Indian counterpart.

Pakistan says the diversion of water flow will not only adversely reduce the electricity generation capacity of the 969 MW Neelum-Jhelum Hydropower project by 15 to 16 percent, but will also inflict huge damage on the environment of the Neelum Valley. And if the Neelum-Jhelum project loses 16 percent capacity to generate electricity because of non-availability of water then its financial viability would be compromised.

When contacted, Abdul Basit, spokesman for Foreign Office said that he has come to know that Pakistan’s Commission of Indus Water has written a letter to its Indian counterpart, but he did not know the exact contents of the letter. “However, I will be able to know the facts after the March 23 holiday is over,” he said.

Syed Jamaat Ali Shah did not disclose any details when this scribe approached him. However, he did not deny the fact that he himself served the notice on his Indian counterpart. Pakistan had earlier sought the services of a neutral expert appointed by the World Bank for the resolution of Baglihar dispute.

But the verdict went against Pakistan and now the Pakistani authorities are pondering to move the International Court of Justice against the verdict of the neutral expert. The world water day (March 22) is of immense significance to Pakistan, keeping in view its water disputes with India.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 24 Mar 2009 09:21

Vivek_A wrote:. . . .But the verdict went against Pakistan and now the Pakistani authorities are pondering to move the International Court of Justice against the verdict of the neutral expert. . . .

Ahh. . . the first time I am seeing a Pakistani accepting the truth that the verdict went against Pakistan. Actually, what the verdict implied was that the Pakistanis were inveterate liars, created a crisis where there was none, nursed implacable enmity with India, did not understand hydrology, civil engineering, math and allied subjects, did not understand the treaty that their country has signed and the obligations that went with it, couldn't be a responsible country among the comity of nations, were prone to be querulous, and wasted their energy in unnecessary and doomed pursuits at the cost of the welfare of its own people.

Somehow, this overwhelming and totally misplaced self-righteousness that conditions their outlook makes them seek the offices of the ICJ and repeated failures do not stop them from this approach. They do not realize that the verdict of the neutral expert is binding as per IWT. It was Pakistan that asked the World Bank to appoint a neutral expert in spite of some progress made in talks between the Indus Commissioners of the two nations.

The following is what Annexure F, Part 2, Clause 11 of IWT states:

11. The decision of the Neutral Expert on all matters within his competence shall be final and binding, in respect of the particular matter on which the decision is made, upon the Parties and upon any Court of Arbitration established under the provisions of Article IX (5).

Besides, as soon as the neutral expert gave his verdict, it was announced as a victory for Pakistan in their National Assembly. Their Minister for Water Resources said that the Neutral Expert has accepted three out of the six objections raised by Pakistan and India would have to modify its design etc. etc. More circumspect Pakistanis like Najam Sethi editorialized that it was a victory for both India and Pakistan. All of a sudden, that victory has turned into a defeat ?

In the Atlantique shooting down case, India successfully argued that it was not bound by the ICJ and in any case ICJ could not intervene in cases among Commonwealth countries or when bilateral treaties existed. So, good luck to TSP with the ICJ.

Having chosen a confrontational approach, TSP is in an ever increasing spiral down the tube.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 25 Mar 2009 01:32

Much concern over water in puki papers for sometime now

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/Daw ... s-resource

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=168784

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Mar 2009 09:14

India main beneficiary of IWT

The lack of operational capacity did not let Pakistan take full advantage of the Indus Water Treaty, brokered by the World Bank, commented speakers at a seminar on ‘Water Disputes & Pakistan-India Relations’ organised here Thursday by the Institute of Policy Studies (IPS).

“India fully utilised all its resources in terms of money and technicalities, and built dams and barrages, thus becoming the main beneficiary of the Indus Water Treaty,” they said and stressed the government that if India reclaims its right over the Western rivers, then Pakistan should also make its claim over the Eastern rivers.

Speaking on the occasion, Nasrullah Mirza of the Department of Defence & Strategic Studies, Quaid-i-Azam University said Pakistan accepted the Treaty in 1960 at the stake of its very own survival and assurances from India that “it will not interfere with other rivers”, but India never honoured its promises.

He underlined some of the implications of the Indus Water Treaty including the de facto compromise on the Kashmir dispute, loss of legally three dams, ecological disaster and wastage of arable lands. He pointed out that there had been no water dispute at the time of partition but it was India who first violated the international norms and traditions and stopped the water flowing from occupied Kashmir to the Pakistani territory.

Dr Arshad Abbasi, former director Planning Commission, said a roadmap was prepared in 2002 to generate hydro power in Pakistan but unfortunately, even after the passage of seven years, we are hardly able to complete even a single project. He said India got water for development and Pakistan secured its share as a replacement for the Eastern rivers, so “we really felt compelled and did not move in the right direction”.

Masud Daher, an expert, said Pakistan is still not able to construct dams and barrages, and 135 million acres of water is flowing down the sea, which is certainly a matter of grave concern at a time when there is a huge shortfall of electricity in the country. He said India improved its technical capacity and possessed the ability to operationalise its plans in different phases.

Akram Zaki in his concluding remarks said whenever water flows from one country to another, different problems emerge at various points in time. He said there are different theories regarding water issues but every country presses for the one, which suits its own interests. “When India stopped the water, our civil servants were inexperienced and they were not able to cope with the ongoing situation. We made mistakes and even agreed to pay for water,” he said.

Akram Zaki said that dictatorships weakened the state institutions because every military dictator tried to prolong its own regime, ignoring some vital national interests. He said there is a need for a composite dialogue to find out an amicable solution to the water dispute, adding that every stakeholder must support the efforts aimed at serving this purpose.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 29 Mar 2009 11:03

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=169495

However, India interlinked Tawi and Ravi rivers with the Ravi-Tawi Lift Irrigation Project, withdrawing up to 857 cusecs of water daily from Tawi. Under the Indus Waters Treaty, Chenab water was allocated to Pakistan and Tawi is a major left bank tributary of the river, which originates from the lapse of the Kali Kundi glacier and the adjoining area southwest of Bhadarwah in Doda district.

The official said Abbasi also asked the government to check the irrigation provision as given in Annexure ìCî of the Indus Waters Treaty. The Ranbir and Partap canal systems were constructed by India before the signing of the Indus Waters Treaty. The agriculture use of water permitted to India from western rivers is 912,477 acres and over and above 642,000 acres of land being irrigated from the western rivers on the effective date ñ April 1, 1960.

Abbasi’s letter, a copy of which has been made available to The News, says with permissible withdrawals from Ranbir and Partap canals, India is entitled to water additional irrigated cropped area (ICA) of 70,000 acres from Indus, 150,000 from Jhelum and only 50,000 from Chenab.

Looks like GOI is quietly putting the squeeze on.

Note that all the withdrawals are completely legal so far yet the heartburn is so indignant.

And at the end we have this...

The official, quoting the letter, said Abbasi stressed enhancing the capacity of Pakistan’s Indus Waters Commission and making it digitised so that it could be run on modern lines.“This will help detect any misadventure of India; satellite altimetry technology is widely used now to measure surface water quantity.” The letter also argued that International bodies such as the World Bank ought to help the Indus Waters Commission build trust and avert any serious conflict between the two countries.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 13 Apr 2009 16:28

Indo-TSP water meet in May

Indus Water Treaty Commissioner Syed Jamaat Ali Shah has said that India has been told of Pakistan’s reservations over the construction of Kishan Ganga Dam on Indus River. Addressing in a seminar titled ‘Pak-India Water Disputes’ here on Sunday, Ali said an Indo-Pak meeting would be held in May in Pakistan on water reservoirs in both countries. He said that India could construct only those dams that were included in the Indus Water Treaty.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 13 Apr 2009 17:20

Porki ought to face the music of our world famous "delaying tactics" in such talks , I don't see us doing anything illegal and it'll be a mega shame if we actually hear a word of what the Porki's have to say.

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 15 Apr 2009 07:00

Paki rats admit they have a water problem in Sindh because their canals aren't lined with concrete...and then go on to blame India for the water shortage.

Pakistan's water supply in danger (7:45)

The World Bank has warned that a lack of clean water poses a serious threat to Pakistan's stability. In the second of her two part series, The World's Laura Lynch reports from the Indus River Delta in southern Pakistan.

http://www.theworld.org/node/25738