PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 21 Feb 2009 07:59

vsudhir wrote:Chinese Firms Turn to Pawn Shops as Loans Dry Up

Whats CNBC upto?

Obviously, there's some mistake here.

Didn't Xinhua recently report the PBoC's numbers on the surge in lending from Chinese banks to the business sector thanks to the stimulus? How can the CCP be wrong? And again the notorious western devils reported that most of that lending was crony-istic and was being channelled to fuel to the recent stock mkt surge....

Two things have driven the optimism about China, and they appear overblown. The first is the rise in lending. Michael Pettis reported that a lot of that was sham transactions created so that banks would meet government target. The second reason was that stock prices have rallied. Well, one analyst estimates a big chunk of the lending went into.....the stock market!
Link

they are cunning profiteers,aren't they?

the world always are full of such profiteers,from the dishonest bankers in wall street to those chinese bisinessman in Congo.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 21 Feb 2009 12:27

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 21 Feb 2009 12:39

Acharya wrote:

the people in the picture should be the graduates who are looking for jobs.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 21 Feb 2009 16:52

No they are heretics breaking the synchronised Great China kodak moment

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 21 Feb 2009 17:16

Carefool vamanuddin, he is here to educate us abduls on the understanding of the cheeni brothers and the alleged genocidal cult, who are culturally soup-e-rear to us. Be nice to him and who know you may get a happy ending.

Do you want to lose any of your organs in the patliotic le-education camps run by the admins ?

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 21 Feb 2009 17:31

point taken

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 21 Feb 2009 21:11

well,here are pictures transfered by a pretty Beijing girls in India.
The girl's ID is "Bjcutie". Bjcutie has been India for long time . He often introduces his india trip to Chinese on websites. He is very famous for it in Chinese website.

1,here is the house rented by the girls called "Bjcutie". She said the rent of the house is about 7000 Rupees(1000RMB)/month.

what do the indian people here think of the rent? the house should be In New Dehli.
[

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 21 Feb 2009 22:58

Liu,

I have a question for you....my understanding is that in China all land is owned by the govt, so what do you need to do if you need to build your own house, not an aptmt but an independent house. Will govt lease the land to you for construction? How easy is it to get this done and how is the corruption factor in this?

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 22 Feb 2009 00:28

Yogi_G wrote:Liu,

I have a question for you....my understanding is that in China all land is owned by the govt, so what do you need to do if you need to build your own house, not an aptmt but an independent house. Will govt lease the land to you for construction? How easy is it to get this done and how is the corruption factor in this?

it depends on where you live.
1. not all land in CHina is owned by "the state". rural land is legally owned collectively by " the village". However, all rural land owned by "the village" in fact is rented free of any charge by villagers under the name of "long-term lease"

2. if you are rural chinese, you can apply it to town-level governments .
Nearly all rural Chinese have their own land ,under the name of "long-term lease" from "the village". If they want to build an indpendent house on their own land, they can send a apply to town-level government and such apply usually will be approved .
but if rural chinese has no rented land,then it is almost impossble for them to apply another piece of land to build houses.
Today, the Chinese peasants who lose their land are still quite limited,because all chinese soceity realize that peasant's land is the ultimate basestone the china's stablity.

3.If you are urban chinese, then unluckly it is impossible for you to build a independent house by yourself .
According to chinese law ,today chinese government are forbidden to sell land to urban chinese and all urban Chinese have to buy houses from real-estimate developing enterpises.

All land in Chinese urban area is owned by "the state", but Chinese government can sell "the right to use land" to
real-estimate developing enterprises. then the eneterpises which obtain "the right to use land" can develop build the houses according to the government masterplan.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 22 Feb 2009 00:37

Liu wrote:well,here are pictures transfered by a pretty Beijing girls in India.
The girl's ID is "Bjcutie". Bjcutie has been India for long time . He often introduces his india trip to Chinese on websites. He is very famous for it in Chinese website.

1,here is the house rented by the girls called "Bjcutie". She said the rent of the house is about 7000 Rupees(1000RMB)/month.

what do the indian people here think of the rent? the house should be In New Dehli.

Can you give us a link to this BJCutie blog.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 22 Feb 2009 00:47

Acharya wrote:
Liu wrote:well,here are pictures transfered by a pretty Beijing girls in India.
The girl's ID is "Bjcutie". Bjcutie has been India for long time . He often introduces his india trip to Chinese on websites. He is very famous for it in Chinese website.

1,here is the house rented by the girls called "Bjcutie". She said the rent of the house is about 7000 Rupees(1000RMB)/month.

what do the indian people here think of the rent? the house should be In New Dehli.
Can you give us a link to this BJCutie blog.

I have not found her blog.

but the follwing link is full of her trip diaries with lots of pictures photoed in India.
http://tieba.baidu.com/f?ct=318767104&t ... C8&frs=jpq
But those trip diaries are all in chinese..

but one thing can be confirmed...the girl is really very pretty ....
here is some of her photos...but her heads can never been seen.
http://badguy2000.photo.hexun.com/59985 ... 404_d.html
http://badguy2000.photo.hexun.com/59985 ... 404_d.html

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 22 Feb 2009 01:05

Thanks.
Blog looks like a recon mission.

Is this the girl you are talking about

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 22 Feb 2009 01:15

http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kz=365398711
记得前段时间在这里和朋友争论过印度的物价，当时我的观点印度物价比中国低。

现在，我已经在印度生活相当一段时间了，观点变化了，应该这么说，作为旅游的目的地到印度来的消费不高，比欧洲美洲，日本韩国旅游要便宜得多，但是生活在印度，这里的物价比中国要高！！！

印度的各个阶层平均工资收入明显低于中国，但生活物价高于中国，所以印度生活水平低。

在印度，可乐，雪比，1。25升一瓶的竟然50卢比，9块7毛人民币。

普通的大米4块人民币一市斤。

最明显的是水果，印度热带4季节水果资源丰富是在中国就听说的，自然认为这里瓜果满地老少咸宜，，，，但是很让我失望，印度水果只有那么几类，比中国的选择要少，而且很贵！！。

苹果，10块人民币一市斤。
葡萄，5块头人民币一市斤。
草莓用小盒子买，10块人民币大概10来个小草莓。
这些都不是游客价格，印度人购买时一样价格。
到处都是的香蕉，1块5到2块人民币（我家门口的水果摊也很多时候也这个价格）
木瓜比较便宜，在生产的季节2块头人民币一市斤。
现在到了芒果的季节，目前是3-5元1近，根本品种不同有差异。

Here is one of Bjcutie's trip diaries.
According to this diary, Bjcutie says that price of daily commodities in India in fact is more expensive than it in CHina.
the girl raise some example:
[attention:1 RMB=5+ Rupee when the diaries was written]
" a bottle of "Spirit"s cost 50 Rupess(9.7 RMB) in India,while its costs only 3.5 RMB in CHina.

"ordinary rice" costs 40 rupees( 8 RMB) while it costs only 10-15 rupees(2-3 RMB) in CHina.

the fruit in India is especially much more expensive than CHina.
Apple costs 10RMB(50+ rupees)/KG while the best apple just costs 3.5RBM/KG today----I bought some apples just now.

well, Indian friends, is what the girl says truth?

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 22 Feb 2009 01:20

Acharya wrote:Thanks.
Blog looks like a recon mission.

Is this the girl you are talking about

no, here is the trip diary full of pictures, where the girl is dressed on "Saris"
well, the girl likes "Saris" very much
http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kz=228040393

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 22 Feb 2009 01:43

Nayak wrote:Carefool vamanuddin, he is here to educate us abduls on the understanding of the cheeni brothers and the alleged genocidal cult, who are culturally soup-e-rear to us. Be nice to him and who know you may get a happy ending.

Rahour Birakuvat, Maurra Nayakuddin Sahib! Shame on you. Happy ending is something I get at the end of a massage in an oriental MP! And I will not go anywhere the mouth of BJcutie has been! Biratherlog, let us not make BR an adults only forum.
Maulvi Gautamuddin

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 22 Feb 2009 02:38

http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kz=124649920
.
There is a problem with this narrative. Without proper information this cannot be explained

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 22 Feb 2009 03:06

Can we please stop the meaningless discussions, about "cuties", pictures etc.

Have a question for LIU. As you know, I have been to China many times and have a "feel" of the country. I have experianced downtown Shanghai, as well as the village life 50 Km outside the city. I think the life outside the "Show case" areas are simmilar to India. But China has made admirable progress in building world class infrastructure.

My qusetions are 2

1 Firstly, I know for a fact that the Chinease government has employed thousands of "cyber warriers" who spread propoganda in the web. I am not accusing you, but ask you to point out 5 things that are bad that the Chinease government has done.

2 In the early parts of this decade, Chinease government was not at all focussed about India. but the Nuclear deal was definately blown up big. It was presented as a sinister strategy of the US, counter Chinas rise. Subsequently a lot of negative news about India followed. It got to such low level as reporting from Mumbai hospitals about food poisening.
My qestion is: In your view, how is India precieved? What do Chinease bloggers say about India and what is the general mood towards the India/Pakistan issues.

Raghav K · Post by **Raghav K** » 22 Feb 2009 03:14

Liu wrote:
http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kz=365398711
记得前段时间在这里和朋友争论过印度的物价，当时我的观点印度物价比中国低。

现在，我已经在印度生活相当一段时间了，观点变化了，应该这么说，作为旅游的目的地到印度来的消费不高，比欧洲美洲，日本韩国旅游要便宜得多，但是生活在印度，这里的物价比中国要高！！！

印度的各个阶层平均工资收入明显低于中国，但生活物价高于中国，所以印度生活水平低。

在印度，可乐，雪比，1。25升一瓶的竟然50卢比，9块7毛人民币。

普通的大米4块人民币一市斤。

最明显的是水果，印度热带4季节水果资源丰富是在中国就听说的，自然认为这里瓜果满地老少咸宜，，，，但是很让我失望，印度水果只有那么几类，比中国的选择要少，而且很贵！！。

苹果，10块人民币一市斤。
葡萄，5块头人民币一市斤。
草莓用小盒子买，10块人民币大概10来个小草莓。
这些都不是游客价格，印度人购买时一样价格。
到处都是的香蕉，1块5到2块人民币（我家门口的水果摊也很多时候也这个价格）
木瓜比较便宜，在生产的季节2块头人民币一市斤。
现在到了芒果的季节，目前是3-5元1近，根本品种不同有差异。
Here is one of Bjcutie's trip diaries.
According to this diary, Bjcutie says that price of daily commodities in India in fact is more expensive than it in CHina.
the girl raise some example:
[attention:1 RMB=5+ Rupee when the diaries was written]
" a bottle of "Spirit"s cost 50 Rupess(9.7 RMB) in India,while its costs only 3.5 RMB in CHina.

"ordinary rice" costs 40 rupees( 8 RMB) while it costs only 10-15 rupees(2-3 RMB) in CHina.

the fruit in India is especially much more expensive than CHina.
Apple costs 10RMB(50+ rupees)/KG while the best apple just costs 3.5RBM/KG today----I bought some apples just now.

well, Indian friends, is what the girl says truth?

They also mention that the Indian standard of living is poor compared to China

(courtesy chini mon ami).They also talk about tobacco and liquor being expensive and a bottle beer is the cheapest @ 10 Dollar of Renminbi. Everything is not hunky dory and our pal Liu is not telling us everything.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 22 Feb 2009 03:17

Rishirishi wrote:

2 In the early parts of this decade, Chinease government was not at all focussed about India. but the Nuclear deal was definately blown up big. It was presented as a sinister strategy of the US, counter Chinas rise. Subsequently a lot of negative news about India followed. It got to such low level as reporting from Mumbai hospitals about food poisening.
My qestion is: In your view, how is India precieved? What do Chinease bloggers say about India and what is the general mood towards the India/Pakistan issues.

My friend visited China few years ago as part of the work MNC
He found in the newpapers a small snippet of India every day which details any differences and bad news about India.
Did you notice it in Chinese newspapers.

Raghav K · Post by **Raghav K** » 22 Feb 2009 03:17

Liu wrote:
Acharya wrote:Thanks.
Blog looks like a recon mission.

Is this the girl you are talking about

no, here is the trip diary full of pictures, where the girl is dressed on "Saris"
well, the girl likes "Saris" very much
http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kz=228040393

In this mrs "cutie" calls self a "salwar madman". S/he do not talk about the pictures being taken in India. S/he mentions that the "salwars" were brought from India.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 22 Feb 2009 03:18

Here is one of Bjcutie's trip diaries.
According to this diary, Bjcutie says that price of daily commodities in India in fact is more expensive than it in CHina.
the girl raise some example:
[attention:1 RMB=5+ Rupee when the diaries was written]
" a bottle of "Spirit"s cost 50 Rupess(9.7 RMB) in India,while its costs only 3.5 RMB in CHina.

"ordinary rice" costs 40 rupees( 8 RMB) while it costs only 10-15 rupees(2-3 RMB) in CHina.

the fruit in India is especially much more expensive than CHina.
Apple costs 10RMB(50+ rupees)/KG while the best apple just costs 3.5RBM/KG today----I bought some apples just now.

well, Indian friends, is what the girl says truth?

There are great price differences in India. New Delhi would bu much expensier then smaller towns.

Alcohol and tobacco is expensive as the government has imposed high taxes on it.
Rice, lentils, cooking oil, weat, butter, milk etc are probably close to chinease prices. I do not know about meat.

Vegitables are available in much more quantity, as it is consumed in the vegitarian diet. But prices in places like Delhi are higher, while smaller town has cheaper vegitables. Vegitables are expensiver, because Indias road infrastructure is not as good as Chinas and I think the fuel is expensiver.

Housing in Delhi is very expensive. A flat that costs 1000rmb in Delhi can cost 500rmb per month in smaller towns. The construction quality and materials used is better and chaper in China. China is way ahead in low price manufacturing.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 22 Feb 2009 03:33

Kind Request

Can the admins please put an end to this BJcutie issue

But those trip diaries are all in chinese..
but one thing can be confirmed...the girl is really very pretty ....
here is some of her photos...but her heads can never been seen.

Our man Liu here cant decide if BJcutie is a he/ she or some kind of a mutant creature with "heads"
It is pretty much evident that BJcutie's fan is here only to innundate this forum with meaningless BJcutie images. Some of the questions he asks are school boyish, he is here only to make uloos out of us. If this is the quality of people Chicom employs to spread propagandoo then their taller than mountain freindship with our western neighbour is showing its effects already.

Arya Sumantra · Post by **Arya Sumantra** » 22 Feb 2009 04:43

Liu, with all due respect to your genuine curiosities and desire for any honest discussion, can we please stop discussing the prices of vegetables/fruits and an individual's (bjcutie's) perception of india. I am sure the story of bjcutie will start with general things and then get into how her servant is a typical "slumdog" and "miseries of life of people" here etc etc. And then there will be firing of shots from our side as to how there are poor and suffering people in China too.There will always be stereotypes. The first question asked by mother of chinese girlfriend of my indian friend was about caste system and dowry death. His prospective mother-in-law was afraid that her daughter would be killed in dowry death or bride burning if she married him. So that's the perception gap between reality and what chinese think about us. So can we just amicably stop this here itself and get back to discussing economics of PRC.

And finally, improving public perception of Indians and people to people links makes sense only in those countries where people control government. Since you are ruled by a party it is the perception of the party members alone about India and Indian people that matters for political relations. Unless bjcutie is party-member or plans to join party in future her image of India will not affect India-China political relations.

Raghav K · Post by **Raghav K** » 22 Feb 2009 06:03

S/he (Liu) is just trying to divert our attention from discussing the core problems with the Chinese economy in the guise of better understanding by posting all BS posts and s/he has partly succeeded.This thread has become meaningless ever since comrade entered.I hope the Mods will do a better job to maintain the integrity of this forum.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 22 Feb 2009 06:06

Acharya wrote:
Rishirishi wrote:

2 In the early parts of this decade, Chinease government was not at all focussed about India. but the Nuclear deal was definately blown up big. It was presented as a sinister strategy of the US, counter Chinas rise. Subsequently a lot of negative news about India followed. It got to such low level as reporting from Mumbai hospitals about food poisening.
My qestion is: In your view, how is India precieved? What do Chinease bloggers say about India and what is the general mood towards the India/Pakistan issues.

My friend visited China few years ago as part of the work MNC
He found in the newpapers a small snippet of India every day which details any differences and bad news about India.
Did you notice it in Chinese newspapers.

Yes, absolutely. I suspect a orchestred media campaign to defame India. I think it is purely for internal Chinease cunsumption. The Chinease government has created a supertantural picture of itself, where no other nation or governmnet compares to China. In the international media, India has got a lot of attention, and the government was/is fearing to come in the shadow of Indian sucess.

They have hidden the fact that India may will surpass China, before it gets to be a super power. (Thanks to the 1 child policy, their workforce is going to shrink drametically, and they will have a massive problem with a skewed old age problem. The second point to note is that wages have been rising faster in India, and a professional probably can make more money in India then China. This suggest better wealth creation per person). Chinas sucess comes soley from low cost production. They have not managed to create high paying jobs, like India has)

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 22 Feb 2009 06:34

BJcutie's pictures tell a story by themselves about what an educated person from today's China found worth photographing in india to show her fellow countrymen and I did not see anything that was overly negative but in fact quite positive. I found that very interesting and would like to thank Liu for bringing it here. Similar to photos I would like to bring back from China. Wish she would change her handle though.

Raghav K · Post by **Raghav K** » 22 Feb 2009 08:10

Victor wrote:BJcutie's pictures tell a story by themselves about what an educated person from today's China found worth photographing in india to show her fellow countrymen and I did not see anything that was overly negative but in fact quite positive. I found that very interesting and would like to thank Liu for bringing it here. Similar to photos I would like to bring back from China. Wish she would change her handle though.

For heavens sake lets get serious. If you like pictures with sarees,dead bodies over ambassador cars and all the childish pieces please set up a private (red)hotline with comrades and leave this place alone. I only hope we can keep this forum as professional as possible and not be hijacked by a bunch of ....

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 22 Feb 2009 08:49

Victor wrote:BJcutie's pictures tell a story by themselves about what an educated person from today's China found worth photographing in india to show her fellow countrymen and I did not see anything that was overly negative but in fact quite positive. I found that very interesting and would like to thank Liu for bringing it here. Similar to photos I would like to bring back from China. Wish she would change her handle though.

well, I think all of you misunderstant bjcutie.

1.In fact,the girl likes India and Indian cultures much .She holdes a very positive expession on Indian people.
One hand ,She indeed photoed some Indian unpleasant places ,on the other hand She also photoes lots of Indiam beautiful places

2, Bjcutie dislikes the Bureaucracy of indian administrations.and She also points out some shortcomings of Indian people such as “Unpunctuality”

Raghav K · Post by **Raghav K** » 22 Feb 2009 09:13

Liu wrote:
Victor wrote:BJcutie's pictures tell a story by themselves about what an educated person from today's China found worth photographing in india to show her fellow countrymen and I did not see anything that was overly negative but in fact quite positive. I found that very interesting and would like to thank Liu for bringing it here. Similar to photos I would like to bring back from China. Wish she would change her handle though.
well, I think all of you misunderstant bjcutie.

1.In fact,the girl likes India and Indian cultures much .He holdes a very positive expession on Indian people.
One hand ,She indeed photoed some Indian unpleasant places ,on the other hand She also photoes lots of Indiam beautiful places

2, Bjcutie dislikes the Bureaucracy of indian administrations.and She also points out some shortcomings of Indian people such as “Unpunctuality”

Unpunctuality (mostly sarkari naukri) is better than not brushing teeth and being stinky.

Almost half a billion people in China never brush their teeth, according to the country's health chiefs.

The Chinese Preventive Medicine Society believes that less than half of the country's 900m rural population brush regularly while just 10% of the 400m living in cities clean properly.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1943420.stm

Arya Sumantra · Post by **Arya Sumantra** » 22 Feb 2009 09:26

Liu wrote:
Victor wrote:BJcutie's pictures tell a story by themselves about what an educated person from today's China found worth photographing in india to show her fellow countrymen and I did not see anything that was overly negative but in fact quite positive. I found that very interesting and would like to thank Liu for bringing it here. Similar to photos I would like to bring back from China. Wish she would change her handle though.
well, I think all of you misunderstant bjcutie.

1.In fact,the girl likes India and Indian cultures much .He holdes a very positive expession on Indian people.
One hand ,She indeed photoed some Indian unpleasant places ,on the other hand She also photoes lots of Indiam beautiful places

2, Bjcutie dislikes the Bureaucracy of indian administrations.and She also points out some shortcomings of Indian people such as “Unpunctuality”

Ok I accept she is Indophile. Now back to Economics. That's what this thread is about.

The Impact of China's Economic Slowdown on U.S. Supply Chains

In fact, the economic downturn may offer a brief reprieve for U.S. toy companies in China. In response to the historic drop in exports, the People’s Bank of China has allowed the Yuan to fall against the dollar. And in November, labor officials announced they would allow factory owners to delay making minimum wage adjustments. The government has also increased VAT rebates on raw materials purchased for manufactured products headed for export. Outside factors have eased cost pressures as well. Falling oil prices coupled with extra space on container ships has, at least for the moment, stalled the climb of transportation costs. On the demand side, U.S. consumers who may have been scared away from the Made in China label after 2007’s recalls are likely to relax their worries about safety and make decisions based on price. A move down the value chain means buying goods made in China.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 22 Feb 2009 09:30

can you tell me the name of the bank?

The Indian bank now is very famous in China ,because Bjcutie saves her money there

By badguy2010 at 2009-02-21

Raghav K · Post by **Raghav K** » 22 Feb 2009 11:16

Liu wrote:can you tell me the name of the bank?

The Indian bank now is very famous in China ,because Bjcutie saves her money there

Have the Mods disappeared?

Raghav K · Post by **Raghav K** » 22 Feb 2009 11:35

Synchronised-depression.

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2009/02 ... epression/

Raghav K · Post by **Raghav K** » 22 Feb 2009 11:42

Albert Edwards LOL China.

Well, to be accurate, he laughs out loud at them:
That this outturn was bang in line with the median estimate of economists surveyed by Bloomberg makes it all the more unbelievable in my mind. All other economic data worldwide have been surprising massively on the downside and China should be no exception. A few hours earlier, for example, South Korea reported Q4 GDP had declined a hefty 5.6% QoQ, massively worse than a Reuter’s consensus which looked for a contraction of 2.7%! I naively thought that this QoQ decline was already annualized, but it was not. On a US style of reporting, the South Korean economy contracted at a 20% annualised rate in Q4. Asia is in depression. Whatever the heavily manipulated Chinese GDP is telling us, that economy must now be contracting. The Yuan needs to be devalued.

So the key thing that’s fishy according to Edwards is just how bang on line the numbers were. As for Tim Geithner’s bizarre declaration on Thursday that China was manipulating its currency (presumably a call for China to allow the yuan to appreciate?) Alberts actually believes the reverse is needed. The yuan must be devalued.

And he’s got a point. As he highlights, inter-regional trade within Asia is what appears to be suffering the most (blowing all notions of “decoupling” firmly out the window). This is clearly reflected by the sharp fall in Japanese exports, which fell no less than 35 per cent year-on-year in the last quatrer according to the latest figures. As Alberts stresses (his emphasis):
…we cannot highlight strongly enough how truly mindboggling Japan’s collapse in exports to China are. Last July they were expanding at a 16% yoy pace. Now they are contracting at a 35% yoy rate! This is a phenomenon throughout the region. Hence despite the notoriously manipulated Chinese GDP data showing a shocking slowdown in GDP growth to 6.8% yoy, I would eat my hat if the Chinese economy was doing anything other than contracting right now.

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2009/01 ... -in-china/

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 22 Feb 2009 11:53

Chinese budget deficit is going to surpass 950 billim RMB(140 billion USD).such enormous budget deficit will be Unprecedented.

.......中国今年的财政预算赤字规模料在去年底中央经济工作会议暂定的5,000亿元基础上大幅追加至9,500亿元。这一预算若获得中央决策........
http://cn.chinareviewnews.com/doc/1008/ ... 0222085636

Raghav K · Post by **Raghav K** » 22 Feb 2009 12:01

The other Moore's law.

In December 2008, 300 people in China risked arrest to sign and distribute a document called Charter 08. It demanded the abolition of Communist Party rule, free elections, a new constitution, separation of powers, an independent judiciary and freedom of expression, assembly and religion. Charter 08 was not a specifically middle-class manifesto. Its most notable—and, to the Communist government, alarming—feature was the wide range of those who had signed it: farmers, former party officials, dissidents from the Tiananmen Square era, a Tibetan blogger.
AFP Divided by headscarves, and much else

But the signatories did include representatives of China’s new middle class, especially lawyers active in the so-called “rights movement” who take up cases involving property law and environmental protection. The document calls for the protection of private property, a quintessentially middle-class concern everywhere. Although the official media stifled news of the charter, discussion of it quickly spread on the internet, the favourite medium of China’s new middle class. Within a week 5,000 people had added their signatures.

The appearance of Charter 08 came against what might be called the run of play in politics in China and elsewhere in the developing world. The middle class used to be seen as the single most important force in democratisation. Even Malthus had argued that “if we could find out a mode of government by which the numbers in the extreme regions [ie, rich and poor] would be lessened and the numbers in the middle regions increased, it would be undoubtedly our duty to adopt it.” In 1966 Barrington Moore, an American historian, pithily summarised decades of scholarly opinion in his formula, “no bourgeoisie, no democracy”.

But that view has been changing. Moore’s academic successors increasingly see the middle class as marginal to establishing a democracy. Some of them think that the poor are more influential, others that the main actors are particular individuals, not social groups. In much of the post-communist and developing worlds, the giddy hopes for liberal democracy that grew up after the Berlin Wall came down have given way to a period of disappointment and democratic stagnation. Despite the huge growth in the middle class, the number of elected democracies worldwide, as tracked by Freedom House, an American advocacy group, has been flat since the mid-1990s.

China’s 800m-strong new middle class has conspicuously failed to rise up against its rulers. Russia’s smaller, weaker middle class seems to have colluded in the reversal of hard-won but fragile freedoms: hence the popularity (across all classes) of Mr Putin. In both countries, middle-class fear of instability seems to have trumped democratic impulses. Their middle classes have also provided some particularly ugly manifestations of aggressive nationalism: for example, during the controversy over the Olympic torch for last year’s Beijing Games, and in Russia’s war on Georgia.

http://www.economist.com/specialreports ... d=13063306

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 22 Feb 2009 12:02

Raghav K wrote:Albert Edwards LOL China.

Well, to be accurate, he laughs out loud at them:
That this outturn was bang in line with the median estimate of economists surveyed by Bloomberg makes it all the more unbelievable in my mind. All other economic data worldwide have been surprising massively on the downside and China should be no exception. A few hours earlier, for example, South Korea reported Q4 GDP had declined a hefty 5.6% QoQ, massively worse than a Reuter’s consensus which looked for a contraction of 2.7%! I naively thought that this QoQ decline was already annualized, but it was not. On a US style of reporting, the South Korean economy contracted at a 20% annualised rate in Q4. Asia is in depression. Whatever the heavily manipulated Chinese GDP is telling us, that economy must now be contracting. The Yuan needs to be devalued.

So the key thing that’s fishy according to Edwards is just how bang on line the numbers were. As for Tim Geithner’s bizarre declaration on Thursday that China was manipulating its currency (presumably a call for China to allow the yuan to appreciate?) Alberts actually believes the reverse is needed. The yuan must be devalued.

And he’s got a point. As he highlights, inter-regional trade within Asia is what appears to be suffering the most (blowing all notions of “decoupling” firmly out the window). This is clearly reflected by the sharp fall in Japanese exports, which fell no less than 35 per cent year-on-year in the last quatrer according to the latest figures. As Alberts stresses (his emphasis):
…we cannot highlight strongly enough how truly mindboggling Japan’s collapse in exports to China are. Last July they were expanding at a 16% yoy pace. Now they are contracting at a 35% yoy rate! This is a phenomenon throughout the region. Hence despite the notoriously manipulated Chinese GDP data showing a shocking slowdown in GDP growth to 6.8% yoy, I would eat my hat if the Chinese economy was doing anything other than contracting right now.
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2009/01 ... -in-china/

everybody has his reason to hold his own opinion.

1, Of the major economies, China's export declines least for time being,if "the week-long vacation of Chinese new year" is considered.
The export of USA,Germany, Japan declines more than CHina's.

2. The decline of CHina's export is caused by the reduction of global consumption, instead of the decline of CHinese economy competitive.
So, devaluing RMB is not helpful,but arouse global trade war.

3. foreigner usualy underestimate the domestic comsumption in China.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 22 Feb 2009 12:14

Raghav K wrote:The other Moore's law.

In December 2008, 300 people in China risked arrest to sign and distribute a document called Charter 08. It demanded the abolition of Communist Party rule, free elections, a new constitution, separation of powers, an independent judiciary and freedom of expression, assembly and religion. Charter 08 was not a specifically middle-class manifesto. Its most notable—and, to the Communist government, alarming—feature was the wide range of those who had signed it: farmers, former party officials, dissidents from the Tiananmen Square era, a Tibetan blogger.
AFP Divided by headscarves, and much else

But the signatories did include representatives of China’s new middle class, especially lawyers active in the so-called “rights movement” who take up cases involving property law and environmental protection. The document calls for the protection of private property, a quintessentially middle-class concern everywhere. Although the official media stifled news of the charter, discussion of it quickly spread on the internet, the favourite medium of China’s new middle class. Within a week 5,000 people had added their signatures.

The appearance of Charter 08 came against what might be called the run of play in politics in China and elsewhere in the developing world. The middle class used to be seen as the single most important force in democratisation. Even Malthus had argued that “if we could find out a mode of government by which the numbers in the extreme regions [ie, rich and poor] would be lessened and the numbers in the middle regions increased, it would be undoubtedly our duty to adopt it.” In 1966 Barrington Moore, an American historian, pithily summarised decades of scholarly opinion in his formula, “no bourgeoisie, no democracy”.

But that view has been changing. Moore’s academic successors increasingly see the middle class as marginal to establishing a democracy. Some of them think that the poor are more influential, others that the main actors are particular individuals, not social groups. In much of the post-communist and developing worlds, the giddy hopes for liberal democracy that grew up after the Berlin Wall came down have given way to a period of disappointment and democratic stagnation. Despite the huge growth in the middle class, the number of elected democracies worldwide, as tracked by Freedom House, an American advocacy group, has been flat since the mid-1990s.

China’s 800m-strong new middle class has conspicuously failed to rise up against its rulers. Russia’s smaller, weaker middle class seems to have colluded in the reversal of hard-won but fragile freedoms: hence the popularity (across all classes) of Mr Putin. In both countries, middle-class fear of instability seems to have trumped democratic impulses. Their middle classes have also provided some particularly ugly manifestations of aggressive nationalism: for example, during the controversy over the Olympic torch for last year’s Beijing Games, and in Russia’s war on Georgia.
http://www.economist.com/specialreports ... d=13063306

The "Chart 08" indeed talks much about the problems in CHinese ,but it doesn't provide any feasible cure to solve the problems at all....
Its claim is so hollow that so called Chart 08 now becomes a "democrat's amusing nake show" in the eyes of edcuated CHinese.

here is a link,which is full of dicussion about "chart 08"
If you can read Chinese ,you can know what CHinese think of "chart 08" .

lots of CHinese laughs at the writors of "Chart 08' and describe them as " rare political animals whose evolution has stopped and can not adapt to the new environment"

I have tried to tranlate the first qutoed .

BTW,the quoted websites are managed by overseas Chinese who live in western coutries. CCP can not cencor the website.

"Chart 08: now it is cold wintor for rare ainimals"
"08宪章"：珍稀动物要过冬
......而搞“08宪章”的这些人，属于二十年来不进化的，特别不能适应环境。二十年前喊口号，二十年后还是只会喊口号，民主自由人权环保，好词是一大把，可是除了好词就什么也没有了。全然不顾自己的环境，也就是中国老百姓，已经发生的巨大变化。二十年前，一喊这些好词儿，河里的前辈们就热血沸腾，想也不想就上街去了；现在，大家就会问：“可操作性呢？”“他们这几个是谁啊？”“民主人权了，对我的生活有什么影响？”于是宪章党就跟扬子鳄大熊猫似的，本来遍布全国的，现在成了政治珍稀动物了.......
.....
"The writors of 'Chart 08' are those political animals whose 'evolution' has been frozen for 2 decades and can not adapt to the new environment. Two decades ago, they were very good at 'chanting slogans'. Now 2 decades has passed but what they can do is still just 'chanting slogans'. what they write is indeed full of 'moving phrases'. However, except those ' moving phrases',there is nothing in "Chart 08' .........2 decades ago, on hearing those 'moving phrases', our elder brotherss&sisters could help rushing to demonstrate on street and protest CCP with the impulse of boiling blood.Howver,today what everybody care about is "how about feasiblity?" ," who are the writors?","what can democracy bring to me?"..[//b]......so ,the advocators of 'Chart 08' now become 'the rare animials " like pandas and Yangtsi-Alligators .

http://www.ccthere.com/article/1937719

我的08宪章升级版——08地球宪章
........年是通用汽车成立百年（好在命也不长了），印度吞并海德拉巴公国造成20万穆斯林遭屠杀60周年（其实同年成立的火星国造成的人类脑损伤更加巨大），罗曼波兰斯基童奸罪保释跳票30周年，美国未来总统候选人希拉里克林顿发表著名电视讲话旗帜鲜明地指出有关她丈夫和莱温斯基关系的传言纯属“右派大阴谋”十周年（同一时间发生的另一件更伟大事件我们就在此省略了）。........
........此决定人类未來命运的历史关头，有必要反思百年來的腐化历程，重申如下基本理念http://www.ccthere.com/article/1940488

淫荡：淫荡是普世价值的核心之所在。肛交、口交、69、三人交、群交、人兽交、兽兽交、男男交、女女交、移情别交、露阴、裸奔、正太con、萝莉con、做腐男腐女的权利都是淫荡的具体凸显。淫荡不止，乃现代文明的标志。

娱乐﹕娱乐不是媒体和一小撮JY的赐予，而是每个人与生俱来就有的天赋。保障大众有going down的娱乐空间，既是媒体的首要目标和这帮狗男女赚钱合理性的基礎，也是“以淫为本”的人性本能。我中华上国的历次阳痿和操蛋都与产业界自以为是的嘴脸密切相关。观众和读者是娱乐产业的主体，钞票来源于人民，娱乐产业为人民的人民币而存在。http://www.ccthere.com/article/1940488

反装B：每一个个体的人，不论其装B的本事、能量、等级、背景、好坏、资格、嚣张程度、资金基础或无耻境界，其思淫、喜淫、好淫的本能都是一样的。但是装B行为大大压迫了这一本能。必须落实本能面前人人不装B的原则，落实大众能够对装B分子进行社会、经济、文化、政治上能够进行全方位打击的权利。

腐败：腐败就是“大家共腐，长腐不败”，就是袒露人性与抵制装B，就是不同职务、不同级别、不同利益、不同派系、各种性倾向与性癖好、各种有特殊弱点的群体，在平等参与、互相理解、共同享受的基础上，以较为低暴力的方式处理消费娱乐过程中和过程后所产生的一切必要和不必要的费用和损失的一种高尚品质。http://www.ccthere.com/article/1940488

暴力：最基本的涵义是暴力在民和民可暴力。暴力具有如下基本特点：（1）暴力的合法性来自群众，人民喜欢暴力的快感；（2）人民暴力如长江之水浩浩荡荡不可阻拦，谁阻拦谁找死，（3）人命享有彻底的暴力权，各种媒体和各色人物及其主要家庭成员社会关系必须在任何事件任何地点和任何情况下无条件接受暴力的蹂躏。（4）尊重多数人的暴力的倾向，同時帮助少数人克服对暴力的不自然反感。一句话，暴力将使地球成为“共娱、共乐、共腐”的后现代人间天堂。

刺激：刺激是大自然是通过亿万年的进化和极其复杂内分泌器官的设计保障大众能够认识到什么是真的娱乐，防止产业和个人掺假和装B，并不断监督其提高和创新。http://www.ccthere.com/article/1940488
在我们地球上，少数文化沙皇的时代早已一去不复返了，在世界范围內，道德专制也日近黄昏；大众应该成为真正的星球主人。祛除怯于JY、NC和WSN的旁观看客意识，张扬人性为本、参与为责的娱乐大鳄意识，实践腐败，恭行暴力，最求最刺激，才是地球人的根本娱乐出路。
........
http://www.ccthere.com/article/1940488

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 22 Feb 2009 12:38

Liu wrote:can you tell me the name of the bank?

The Indian bank now is very famous in China ,because Bjcutie saves her money there

By badguy2010 at 2009-02-21

Unfortunately, the name of the bank is not written in the writing behind the person. The stuff on the left reads "Naukripesha Loan" (Naukri means "work", not quite sure what the word "pesha" means. "Loan" is literally a transliteration of the English word). The stuff on right reads "Deposit" (again, just a simple transliteration of the English word). Interesting thing in India is that a lot of words may have a literal Hindi equivalent, but most people use the English word anyway, especially in the cities. If they were to use the actual Hindi word for "Loan" or "Deposit", I'm pretty certain most people wouldn't understand what the sign said.

There are language councils to invent new language words for scientific terms, but they aren't in common usage.

As for the price of liquor, it varies from state to state. For instance, in Goa (at least when I lived in India), the local Feni is very cheap. The state that I grew up in had the chief minister ban liquor sales, so at that time, you could only get it illegally and hence the price went up. Once a new minister was elected, the ban was removed and prices came down.

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 22 Feb 2009 16:42

Explosive growth in mining industry in the Peepuls Lepubric