Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 20 Feb 2009 14:22

Is a full auto version of INSAS in service? I know that when INSAS was designed, full auto was deliberately excluded. But I had heard somewhere that a full auto version has been developed. Has it been inducted in service ( if it has been made that is )?
I know this info would most probably be there in small arms thread but I don't seem to find it.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 20 Feb 2009 14:32

If the on weapon scale is 100 rounds, a full auto system will expend the rounds in no time!

It can fire single shot/ 3 round burst.

I am also intrigued to know as to why an auto version has been made and what is the logic?

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 20 Feb 2009 14:52

RayC wrote:If the on weapon scale is 100 rounds, a full auto system will expend the rounds in no time!

It can fire single shot/ 3 round burst.

I am also intrigued to know as to why an auto version has been made and what is the logic?

But you have still not answered my question. Is full auto version of INSAS in service? And if it is, does it also have 3 round burst mode? I have another question for you ( since you are an expert

) . I know that full auto is undesirable in most situations. But is it not useful in certain situations? For eg: if a terrorist is hiding in dense vegetation, of say NE, will it not be beneficial to fire in full auto in the known general direction of the terrorist? This situation does not seem to be out of ordinary and perhaps occurs regularly. So is it not prudent to have all three modes in INSAS? Perhaps my question is naive but please bear with me.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Feb 2009 14:54

mki is undoubtedly a big beast with a large RCS.

but this doesn't take into consideration

>> RAM coatings are used to reduce RCS on MKIs

>> unless your adversary has a RCS less than yours by a factor of ~ 10, it doesn't translate into significant lower detection ranges(for radars with equivalent performance). (to reduce detection range by 10%, the RCS needs to come down ~35%)

>> remember that the fighters won't fly in clean configuration(no stores)
with ordnance and fuel tanks, RCS of TSPAF jets would increase as a much larger fraction of their clean RCS. mki OTOH, does not need to carry external fuel tanks(which have pretty large radar return) and even with ordnance its RCS would increase with only a small factor of its total clean RCS.

>> the radar on the mki is however leagues ahead of anything fielded by TSPAF. bars is a huge radar with insane performance, it can detect ANY TSPAF fighter much before it detects the mki.

>> because of its superior range, bars can be used as in mini-AWACS tactics. one mki would operate radar (and thereby give its position away) guiding other a/c by datalink(may or may not be mki) which would be in radar off mode.

>> all in all, even assuming that TSPAF fighters operate radars at 100% potential (a very unlikely assumption, given that the MKI and IAF has very potent jammers and enormous on-board power to operate those. and this capability has not been sitting idle at all

)
the mki will ALWAYS detect first and shoot first.

further reading.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bars_radar
http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/comparison- ... u30-1.html
http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/info-su30mki.html#7
(if you are interested in the mki, vayu-sena tripod is the best place)

For aircraft N011M has a 350 km search range and a maximum 200 km tracking range, and 60 km in the rear hemisphere. A MiG-21 for instance can be detected at a distance of up to 135 km. Design maximum search range for an F-16 target was 140-160km. A Bars' earlier variant, fitted with a five-kilowatt transmitter, proved to be capable of detecting Su-27 fighters at a range of over 330 km. The radar can track 20 air targets and engage the 4 most threatening targets simultaneously (this capability was introduced in the Indian RC1 and RC2). These targets can include cruise/ballistic missiles and even motionless helicopters. For comparison, Phazotron-NIIR’s Zhuk-MS radar has a range of 150-180km against a fighter and over 300km against a warship. "We can count the number of blades in the engine of the aircraft in sight (by the NO11M) and by that determine its type," NIIP says.

.............................................
about INSAS, if this is about failure in cold weather (TOI link isn't working for me, good eh ?

)
that was solved long back. all new weapons have teething problems and this was one of the harshest environments on the planet.

about full auto, as RayC said, 3 bullet burst was a specific IA requirement for bullet economy.

as of now only the INSAS LMG is full auto.

Suyogv · Post by **Suyogv** » 20 Feb 2009 14:58

INSAS is doing well But I dont know why it is not provided to Indian police? Maharashtra police just ordered FAL SLR from Austria. If central govts look in this matter Ordeniance factory would have got a decent order

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 20 Feb 2009 16:31

Hari wrote:I came across this news about INSAS

Can any one give more information on this:

Or is this just a media speculation.

I expect reply from people who used it

Have you read this?
http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story ... t_id=77704

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 20 Feb 2009 16:51

Suyogv wrote:INSAS is doing well But I dont know why it is not provided to Indian police? Maharashtra police just ordered FAL SLR from Austria. If central govts look in this matter Ordeniance factory would have got a decent order

It is provided to police in high risk areas like J&K and NE. I think the rest of the police will be provided with INSAS but only after each SLR of IA is replaced. I guess army is given priority in this case.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 20 Feb 2009 16:58

Rahul M wrote: >> RAM coatings are used to reduce RCS on MKIs

RAM???

This is the first time I have heard of it. I guess i have been less informed than I believed. Can you please give a link to this info?
Thnx

Suyogv · Post by **Suyogv** » 20 Feb 2009 17:04

Parijat Gaur wrote:
Suyogv wrote:INSAS is doing well But I dont know why it is not provided to Indian police? Maharashtra police just ordered FAL SLR from Austria. If central govts look in this matter Ordeniance factory would have got a decent order
It is provided to police in high risk areas like J&K and NE. I think the rest of the police will be provided with INSAS but only after each SLR of IA is replaced. I guess army is given priority in this case.

By that time we wont requires INSAS becuae we have alreadly ordered MP5s and MP4s

Hari · Post by **Hari** » 20 Feb 2009 17:06

Thanks Mr. RahulM for the good piece of Information.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Feb 2009 17:21

most 3rd gen fighters of IAF have some degree of RAM treatment.
sorry don't have the snippets saved but ,ay be others can rectify that.

as of now only that on the bison is confirmed (and that it is successful) but beyond that nobody is willing to talk.
IAF, as any other professional AF is ultra secretive when it comes to RCS figures, reduction measures etc.

but from hints and nudges over the years we can assume with some degree of certainty that the mki(as also the flogger) features some nature of RCS reduction using RAM coatings.

given that IAF has taken to almost gold-plating this a/c, this is a given.

FWIW, the russians had a RAM coating offer for the su-30 and we also had some desi stuff being researched and tested. (though I don't know if mki features this version)

...............
suyog, does the avg pandu on the beat really require an assault rifle ?

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 20 Feb 2009 17:22

Suyogv wrote:
Parijat Gaur wrote: It is provided to police in high risk areas like J&K and NE. I think the rest of the police will be provided with INSAS but only after each SLR of IA is replaced. I guess army is given priority in this case.
By that time we wont requires INSAS becuae we have alreadly ordered MP5s and MP4s

mp5 and mp4 are ordered for a different role. They are not a replacement for SLR( which can only be replaced by an assault rifle ). They are smg and have a very different role. The thing is that most of the SLR in IA have been replaced with INSAS. Most of the infantry ( perhaps even all ) have been provided with INSAS. Majority of SLR are with medical units which basically use them for guard duty. mp5 and mp4 are smg and are useless for this role. So INSAS is the replacement for SLR not an smg.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Feb 2009 17:40

parijat, here's one old snippet.

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_221.shtml

A look at the general lineup which was unsurprisingly dominated by IAF aircraft. Note the newly introduced low-viz grey scheme. Jaguars, MiG-27s and MiG-21 Bisons now feature extensive RAM coating/treatment and it is highly probable(though unconfirmed) that the Su-30MKIs and Mi-35s also feature the same.

FYI, Harry was a fellow who had amazing knowledge and contacts and frequently dug up info a few months ahead of mainstream media.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 20 Feb 2009 17:48

Rahul M wrote:most 3rd gen fighters of IAF have some degree of RAM treatment.
FWIW, the russians had a RAM coating offer for the su-30 and we also had some desi stuff being researched and tested. (though I don't know if mki features this version)

I thought RAM coating was an ultra secretive technology. I thought only some american planes (sr-71, b-2, f22 etc) have used them. And yet Russians ( who are not publically known to have any RAM coated planes ) have given RAM coatings not only to MKI but also to other aircrafts including Bison?

And we have not only researched RAM but have gone so far as to test them????

This is beyond any doubt the most shocking piece info I have heard ( figuratively speaking ) . But this certainly makes me very happy.

Rahul M wrote: http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_221.shtml

Is it a credible source? Perhaps I have overestimated RAM technology but it still seems far fetched to me that we have been provided with RAM coatings even though no one in the world except US has this technology( with the exception of Russia perhaps ).

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Feb 2009 18:38

RAM is hardly as exclusive as you think !

russia hasn't been inducting too many fighters for some time now but both their latest acquisitions, the su-34(reportedly) and the su-35BM have RAM coatings.

both the rafale and EF has RAM treatment and so on.

even the mig-29k has RAM
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/MiG-29K.html

one old report:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... urpg-1.cms

a word of caution though, RAM DOES NOT make an a/c VLO(or stealth in common parlance), what it does is absorb incident radio waves(>90% in some cases) for some particular frequency band. no RAM will work for ALL wavelength. same for composite materials.

p.s. yes, ACIG is pretty reliable and so is Harry. he knew what he was speaking.

Suyogv · Post by **Suyogv** » 20 Feb 2009 18:42

Parijat Gaur wrote: mp5 and mp4 are ordered for a different role. They are not a replacement for SLR( which can only be replaced by an assault rifle ). They are smg and have a very different role. The thing is that most of the SLR in IA have been replaced with INSAS. Most of the infantry ( perhaps even all ) have been provided with INSAS. Majority of SLR are with medical units which basically use them for guard duty. mp5 and mp4 are smg and are useless for this role. So INSAS is the replacement for SLR not an smg.

I agree But I told of Police 99% of SLR and Lee En-field (Ishapore) are just rusting (At lest in Maharashtra Police Force)

MP5s will be given to QRT! QRT is trained by NSG officials. And almost all HC are provided with Glock 9mm Pistols. And Assault rifles are rearly required in close combat (Except like 26/11 situations) So I think this is reason that Police didn't buy INSAS. By the way SLR are commissioned to SRPF

Akshut · Post by **Akshut** » 21 Feb 2009 13:18

How can I upload a photo album of mine??

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 21 Feb 2009 15:41

I have a question about Mig-35. The details of Mig-35 seem to vary from source to source. However what confuses me is that its physical dimensions ( length, wingspan, height ) are always given much greater than that of Mig-29. But if Mig-35 is a highly upgraded Mig-29, shouldn't its dimensions be same as that of Mig-29?

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 21 Feb 2009 21:17

^^ Some dimensions vary according to the type and application. The UB version is slightly longer. The MiG 29K has a slightly longer wingspan. Also the fuselage is modified for extra fuel capacity. Check out photos of all the variants to see the differences.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 21 Feb 2009 22:03

parijat, there's a thread by venezuelan BRFite Pit on the mig-29k/kub.
probably in the archives now.
find it and read it. would answer many of your questions and then some.

sohamsri · Post by **sohamsri** » 22 Feb 2009 18:12

I have just started posting in this forum, and as I'm not allowed to PM yet and this is the newbie thread can someone clear a few confusions ?

1) Don't the new members have to post an introduction ?
2) Aren't we notified by e-mail when there are replies in the threads we have posted in ?
3) How long is one not allowed to send PMs ?
4) Is the posting of images allowed in the threads ?

sohamsri · Post by **sohamsri** » 22 Feb 2009 18:15

And why did my username just change from "blackleaf" to "kalu" ??

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Feb 2009 18:16

Here is an email from Mayurica of Times Now channel - forwarded to me by someone

Hi

Is there some way I can spread the word on BR that 'LINE OF DUTY' (A
television series on the Indian armed forces) is being re-telecast on Times
Now.

Every Saturday at 22:30 hrs & Sunday at 1230 & 2130 hrs.

Thanks & Regards

Mayurica

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 22 Feb 2009 18:17

1)no
2)there would be options in your user control panel to set those. top right corner of page.
3)only admins can send PMs
4)yes, but not large inlines which can screw up page formats. thumbnails are preferred.
tutorial is available in the first post of the misc pics thread.
there is a thread dedicated to images, called misc pictures thread. that would be the best place for posting images.

>>name change -- check MRCA thread.

p.s. if you want to introduce yourself, you are welcome to do so in this thread.

sohamsri · Post by **sohamsri** » 22 Feb 2009 18:20

Rahul M wrote:1)no
2)there would be options in your user control panel to set those. top right corner of page.
3)only admins can send PMs
4)yes, but not large inlines which can screw up page formats. thumbnails are preferred.
tutorial is available in the first post of the misc pics thread.
there is a thread dedicated to images, called misc pictures thread. that would be the best place for posting images.

>>name change -- check MRCA thread.

Haha ! Can you change it to "sohamsri" if its not taken ? or "soham"
My apologies for the inhuman name.

done,
Rahul.

sohamsri · Post by **sohamsri** » 22 Feb 2009 18:27

Thank you.
My apologies once again.

sum · Post by **sum** » 22 Feb 2009 19:36

shiv wrote:Here is an email from Mayurica of Times Now channel - forwarded to me by someone

Hi
Is there some way I can spread the word on BR that 'LINE OF DUTY' (A
television series on the Indian armed forces) is being re-telecast on Times
Now.
Every Saturday at 22:30 hrs & Sunday at 1230 & 2130 hrs.
Thanks & Regards
Mayurica

Hi Mayurica,
Just using this post to convey my greatest congrats and regards for the Times-NOW team for bringing out such a great programme.

Is there any plan for "Line of Duty- Mk2"? (Iv seen all the eps of first "season" and am desperate for more

)

manish · Post by **manish** » 22 Feb 2009 21:29

Parijat Gaur wrote:
Suyogv wrote:INSAS is doing well But I dont know why it is not provided to Indian police? Maharashtra police just ordered FAL SLR from Austria. If central govts look in this matter Ordeniance factory would have got a decent order
It is provided to police in high risk areas like J&K and NE. I think the rest of the police will be provided with INSAS but only after each SLR of IA is replaced. I guess army is given priority in this case.

Actually, INSAS has been in use amongst various state police units, but it is not too common IMVVHO - I am just a lay person - this is from what I have seen around the country, that's all.

The folding butt INSAS(which I must admit looks really attractive, much, much more than the full length fixed butt design) is beginning to see really widespread use amongst CISF units. I guess their requirement of defending industrial and office establishments would put them in CQB situations quite often, necesseciating the use of the folding butt version -am I right gurus?

Note the guy on the left with the folding butt INSAS. The guys in the picture are Airport Security, but I have personally seen many CISF guys guarding PSU offices carrying them. And regarding police units, there was an article about Gujarat Police deciding to issue INSAS for its members and another reference can be today's TOI report on the Hathras Court Shootout in UP - the front page article has a small photo which shows UP cops carrying an assortment of weapons including what looks like a fixed butt INSAS and 0.303 rifles.

Here's a question to RayC sir - why does OFB persist with the orange furniture for INSAS - is it purely for camo benefits in typical Indian terrain or just a carry over from the SLR/FN FAL and AK design philosophies? I do understand this has no bearing on the rifle's effectiveness as a weapon

but just curious. I personally feel that the bright and shiny plastic (?) furniture looks really tacky at times, purely from an aesthetic perspective - just an observation,not complaining or whining! I do remember people commenting on this aspect in one of the earlier Defexpo thread as well. Just curious to know

.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 22 Feb 2009 21:51

manish wrote:Here's a question to RayC sir - why does OFB persist with the orange furniture for INSAS - is it purely for camo benefits in typical Indian terrain or just a carry over from the SLR/FN FAL and AK design philosophies? I do understand this has no bearing on the rifle's effectiveness as a weapon but just curious. I personally feel that the bright and shiny plastic (?) furniture looks really tacky at times, purely from an aesthetic perspective - just an observation,not complaining or whining! I do remember people commenting on this aspect in one of the earlier Defexpo thread as well. Just curious to know .

A very valid point. I'd like to know the reason too.

manish · Post by **manish** » 22 Feb 2009 22:06

Dmurphy wrote:
manish wrote:Here's a question to RayC sir - why does OFB persist with the orange furniture for INSAS - is it purely for camo benefits in typical Indian terrain or just a carry over from the SLR/FN FAL and AK design philosophies? I do understand this has no bearing on the rifle's effectiveness as a weapon but just curious. I personally feel that the bright and shiny plastic (?) furniture looks really tacky at times, purely from an aesthetic perspective - just an observation,not complaining or whining! I do remember people commenting on this aspect in one of the earlier Defexpo thread as well. Just curious to know .
A very valid point. I'd like to know the reason too.

What intrigues me further is the fact that the OFB has had the INSAS in all - black for a very long time now. They seem to show the black version at all expos and exhibitions. And IIRC, the RNA were supplied with the black ones, weren't they?I do remember seeing photos of them on patrol in Kathmandu in the pre - Maoist days, but I have lost the pictures that I had stored on my HDD.

Anyways, here is the INSAS in black from the OFB site - fellow jingos would recognise this as an old photo that has been up there for a long time now:

Added later:
Sorry, should have Googled first! Here's the RNA out on patrol with the black INSAS.

Woulda been nice to have the burly CISF fella guarding the govt setup next door standing menacingly with one of those, would have warmed this SDRE's heart

Of course, he will just fine with the current one, but one can wish right

?!!

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 22 Feb 2009 22:29

at ^^
You are right. I think an INSAS variant called Excalibur is black coloured, along with fully automatic fire....but IMO, even the regular INSAS should be black...looks more menacing!
Which brings me to another question...the Excalibur variant is meant for special forces...is it being inducted? What is its current status? Any pics?

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 22 Feb 2009 22:37

Parijat Gaur wrote:
RayC wrote:If the on weapon scale is 100 rounds, a full auto system will expend the rounds in no time!

It can fire single shot/ 3 round burst.

I am also intrigued to know as to why an auto version has been made and what is the logic?
But you have still not answered my question. Is full auto version of INSAS in service? And if it is, does it also have 3 round burst mode? I have another question for you ( since you are an expert ) . I know that full auto is undesirable in most situations. But is it not useful in certain situations? For eg: if a terrorist is hiding in dense vegetation, of say NE, will it not be beneficial to fire in full auto in the known general direction of the terrorist? This situation does not seem to be out of ordinary and perhaps occurs regularly. So is it not prudent to have all three modes in INSAS? Perhaps my question is naive but please bear with me.

I have answered your question.

You heard and I have not heard. Therefore, I am intrigued and curious.

Full auto ofcourse would be great, but in the heat of the moment, if all or a majority fire on full auto, then how will the replenishment be done quick time. Till the battle is on, the F Ech cannot fetch up.

In the NE, it is even worse to be on full auto. How will the F Ech vehicle fetch up on jungle trails? If the ammunition is finished in one go, then the troops will be on the receiving end!

I hope I have understood your question and I hope I have been able to answer to some extent.

Here's a question to RayC sir - why does OFB persist with the orange furniture for INSAS - is it purely for camo benefits in typical Indian terrain or just a carry over from the SLR/FN FAL and AK design philosophies? I do understand this has no bearing on the rifle's effectiveness as a weapon but just curious. I personally feel that the bright and shiny plastic (?) furniture looks really tacky at times, purely from an aesthetic perspective - just an observation,not complaining or whining! I do remember people commenting on this aspect in one of the earlier Defexpo thread as well. Just curious to know .

I really have no idea!

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 22 Feb 2009 22:48

I think someone posted before that the black INSAS becomes really hot when you're patrolling in desert areas.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 23 Feb 2009 00:04

shiv wrote:Here is an email from Mayurica of Times Now channel - forwarded to me by someone

Hi
Is there some way I can spread the word on BR that 'LINE OF DUTY' (A
television series on the Indian armed forces) is being re-telecast on Times
Now.
Every Saturday at 22:30 hrs & Sunday at 1230 & 2130 hrs.
Thanks & Regards
Mayurica

shiv,
Mayurica has posted in the Psy Ops thread re. the re-telecast. Perhaps adminullahs can have that post moved to a better location or even better made a sticky to give it maximum coverage here on B-R.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 23 Feb 2009 00:19

unfortunately the program wasn't aired.

I had mailed her in response to hers, she is yet to reply/follow the advice. I guess this is the reason.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 23 Feb 2009 02:00

RayC wrote: Full auto ofcourse would be great, but in the heat of the moment, if all or a majority fire on full auto, then how will the replenishment be done quick time. Till the battle is on, the F Ech cannot fetch up.

In the NE, it is even worse to be on full auto. How will the F Ech vehicle fetch up on jungle trails? If the ammunition is finished in one go, then the troops will be on the receiving end!

I hope I have understood your question and I hope I have been able to answer to some extent.

Yes, thank you. That answered my question perfectly.

RayC wrote: You heard and I have not heard. Therefore, I am intrigued and curious.

I am sorry but I do not fully understand your statement. Are you referring to my statement " I had heard somewhere that a full auto version has been developed "? If so, then I had heard that full auto version of INSAS had been displayed at some defense expo. However, hearsay is often inaccurate and that is why I wanted to confirm it. Also I read a statement in the following BR thread that gave me the impression that a full auto version of INSAS was available.
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... f=10&t=101
Here in the opening post Raj Malhotra says " Firstly let me say that OFB is already offering a full auto rifle but the army is not purchasing the same. ".

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 23 Feb 2009 02:34

Rahul M wrote:unfortunately the program wasn't aired.

I had mailed her in response to hers, she is yet to reply/follow the advice. I guess this is the reason.

Then for benefit of newbies since this is a newbie thread (

) here are the links to the Line of Duty Special Forces telecasts uploaded by Mayurica on YouTube:

Segment 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNMJf53nb2o
Segment 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IPL2rOjl_U
Segment 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neO1KLN9z84

And next time you encounter some western SF fanboy/babe who quotes Discovery Channel, show him/her these.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 23 Feb 2009 03:08

Why is Su-30MKI considered by some as lacking in capability as a strike fighter? I agree that it is an excellent air superiority fighter but it also has a good range and payload. So in what way is it lacking in a2g capabilities? This point is also raised against Mig-35 for MRCA. Rafale and F-18 are considered as capable strike fighters among MRCA contendors. So I would appreciate if you would explain the handicaps of Su-30MKI and Mig-35 as strike fighters as compared to above mentioned aircrafts.

b_patel · Post by **b_patel** » 23 Feb 2009 06:54

The Su 30 MKI doesn't lack A2G capabilities. It suffers b/c it doesn't have the wide array of weapons for A2G like the Rafale and the Super Hornet. The Rafale can fire: Storm Shadow, exocet, Apache, AS 30, Milan. The Super Hornet probably has the greatest variety of A2G munitions in the world some of them include: Brimstone, Hellfire, JASSM, Maverick and many more.
The Su-30 MKI uses mainly Russian weapons and can only use a few A2G missiles, while the Rafale and Super Hornet have a huge variety of weapons to choose from. In that sense the SU-30 MKI lacks in the strike role. Also we have dedicated strike plane such as the Mirage 2000 and Jaguar. That's why they are still around and being upgraded.

There reports that the Mirage 2000 upgrades will be more extensive than previously thought. Can anyone shine some light on this? I read that France is offering the Storm Shadow as part of the Upgrade package and the METEOR as well. I doubt the METEOR claims but the Storm Shadow seems like a legit possibility. Maybe that's why the upgrades are costing so much. The cost of upgrading the old Mirages to fire missiles like the Storm Shadow and meteor would be quite high.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 23 Feb 2009 08:58

Parijat Gaur wrote:Why is Su-30MKI considered by some as lacking in capability as a strike fighter? I agree that it is an excellent air superiority fighter but it also has a good range and payload. So in what way is it lacking in a2g capabilities? This point is also raised against Mig-35 for MRCA. Rafale and F-18 are considered as capable strike fighters among MRCA contendors. So I would appreciate if you would explain the handicaps of Su-30MKI and Mig-35 as strike fighters as compared to above mentioned aircrafts.

AFAIK, the Su-30 MKI was never meant to be a 'strike aircraft'. They were primarily developed for air superiority role. When the IAF has 120+ Mig-27s, 120+ Jaguars and Mirage 2000s for the A2G role, A2G characteristics would always take a back seat with the MKIs. 'Horses for courses' has been IAF's mantra for sometime.

Added later: Installing Brahmos on Sukhois does give it extra teeth in A2G role, don't you think?

JMT.