asprinzl wrote:Hmmm some of the pics of the LCA was taken at fantastic angles by the gurus on here. I suggest that a couple of these be printed in either 18 X 24 or 24 X 36 format posters for sale to collectors at brobably ten to fifteen dollars. Or calendars. Some ways to raise money for BRF. I wonder how come DRDO didnt do anything of the sort especially with a test pilot handy to have such posters autographed. For entities like DRDO not so much as money making effort but an effort in creating awareness especially among kids.
Avram
Good idea asprinzl I think BR should put out a calender/poster and we can use these awesome pics by Kedar, Rahul D, etc.
I am sure BRFites around the globe would love hanging a BR calender/poster hanging up on their walls....
asprinzl wrote:Hmmm some of the pics of the LCA was taken at fantastic angles by the gurus on here. I suggest that a couple of these be printed in either 18 X 24 or 24 X 36 format posters for sale to collectors at brobably ten to fifteen dollars. Or calendars. Some ways to raise money for BRF. I wonder how come DRDO didnt do anything of the sort especially with a test pilot handy to have such posters autographed. For entities like DRDO not so much as money making effort but an effort in creating awareness especially among kids.
Avram
It is a very good idea. I also would like to suggest small books on topics like rockets, navy, army, air force (pretty much all things covered by BRF) for young readers. My five year old is already taken into US propaganda. Almost all books we get in Singapore and Australia have pictures of objects/events of US origin. For him a rocket is space shuttle, fighter plan is F-16 or such. These books give an impression that pretty much anything important happens/comes/invented/discovered in US. We need books with Indian names that stress Indian contribution to the world with good dose of linking them to Indian history/culture.
(off soap box)
On my part i'll volunteer to design books meant for young children or for that matter any kind PR publication. All i need are collaborators for the visual content and subject authors for the stories.
It is a very good idea. I also would like to suggest small books on topics like rockets, navy, army, air force (pretty much all things covered by BRF) for young readers. My five year old is already taken into US propaganda. Almost all books we get in Singapore and Australia have pictures of objects/events of US origin. For him a rocket is space shuttle, fighter plan is F-16 or such. These books give an impression that pretty much anything important happens/comes/invented/discovered in US. We need books with Indian names that stress Indian contribution to the world with good dose of linking them to Indian history/culture.
(off soap box)
On my part i'll volunteer to design books meant for young children or for that matter any kind PR publication. All i need are collaborators for the visual content and subject authors for the stories.
Kedar has released an excellent photographic album on the IAF at Red Flag at AI '09 - this is a must buy for all BRF young readers and priced quite reasonably as well - as a revelation the book has been published in Mumbai and the quality is amazing.
Incidentally Kapil has an idea of of releasing small pocket books on the IAF akin to the observer's series- needs a few volunteers to get this moving - will be a great PR and BR exercise.
Reddy wrote:
On my part i'll volunteer to design books meant for young children or for that matter any kind PR publication. All i need are collaborators for the visual content and subject authors for the stories.
Incidentally Kapil has an idea of of releasing small pocket books on the IAF akin to the observer's series- needs a few volunteers to get this moving - will be a great PR and BR exercise.
I want to do this too. I will discuss with Kapil and then people will hear more.
Dude Kapil -- you met all these people (George Thomas, "soggy", a few MI jocks) and dont tell me you didnt ask them any 'juicy' questions?
- Did you ask George Thomas any details on RedFlag? (BTW - as you can see the NFTC patch on him.. he is with LCA team now! I guess after sometime with LCA team he will go on to command a Su30 sqd - like some previous test pilots on LCA team went on to command sqds)
There have been some great pics and analysis by members of Aero-India,the best so far of all the shows.Great work by those involved.Apart from the website,BR can do a signal service by bringing out concise guides on defence matters which can be sent to schools.These could cover the three services and be of general interest to school children and the college crowd.These could be of considerable value in asisting education in the classsroom (History,GK and Science classes) and instilling a sense of pride and direction to those who want to join the armed forces for a career.In almost every major school,there exists an NCC unit and BR booklets can be of great informative help to those schools and their units.These booklets could be simple but effective.Those of us who enjoyed as children the legendary "Biggles" books,now could have an oportunity to thrill another generation with such booklets.I don't know if any members posses any of the "Ladybird" books at all whcih could serve as a model.I have an old one on warships,a wonderful little guide.A series on the IAF,IN and IA could be brought out with pics of eqpt. used apart from other general information.Shiv,your thoughts?
All these guys have affection for BR.They came to say Hi. How can you ask juicy questions like that?;-)
Tommy Sir has already commanded a Su30 Sqn at Red Flag.
Soggy of course is ex Tejas and now Saras.
Philip:
Great ideas but they need money.Lots of it.Its difficult to sell things like these in India.
You are one of the rare people who is a jingo and willingly opens your wallet to buy books.
Sorry to be blunt but when most of the forum jingos never spend money to buy anything we try producing,its quite a tall order to sell things to people on the street.
kaps, I had some discussion with Jagan for a kid's corner on BR mainsite.
a BRlite for kids so to speak. we could have PPT presentations and printable documents in it along with regular stuff.
Tommy Sir has already commanded a Su30 Sqn at Red Flag.
.
Small clarification ?
Was he the Sqd CO of Lightnings at RedFlag? I think he just commanded the team that attended Redflag.. Gp.Capt. Ajay rathore was & is still the SqnCo. isnt it !!
In all probability Tommy boy will go back to one of the Su30 sqns as the Sqn.CO after a stint at NFTC..
Philip wrote:There have been some great pics and analysis by members of Aero-India,the best so far of all the shows.Great work by those involved.Apart from the website,BR can do a signal service by bringing out concise guides on defence matters which can be sent to schools.These could cover the three services and be of general interest to school children and the college crowd.These could be of considerable value in asisting education in the classsroom (History,GK and Science classes) and instilling a sense of pride and direction to those who want to join the armed forces for a career.In almost every major school,there exists an NCC unit and BR booklets can be of great informative help to those schools and their units.These booklets could be simple but effective.Those of us who enjoyed as children the legendary "Biggles" books,now could have an oportunity to thrill another generation with such booklets.I don't know if any members posses any of the "Ladybird" books at all whcih could serve as a model.I have an old one on warships,a wonderful little guide.A series on the IAF,IN and IA could be brought out with pics of eqpt. used apart from other general information.Shiv,your thoughts?
I am a really a big fan of books from dk publishing (i think even ladybug is from the same publishers). They are simple, very clean and get into great details without overwhelming the young readers. I really wish to see books of this nature on true Indian history, science and culture.
In late 80's there was a TV series titled "Bharath ek Chaap". Only attempt, in popular media, i know of which looked at ancient Indian science and culture. At that time i really liked it (I don't know how i would feel if i see it now). However, what i remember of it... it was well researched. I remember one of my friends was working on books based on that series; don't quite know what happened to that project though. Sorry for the OT.
Philip wrote:and instilling a sense of pride and direction to those who want to join the armed forces for a career.In almost every major school,there exists an NCC unit and BR booklets can be of great informative help to those schools and their units.
When in NCC, we pretty much had to rely on a book the 'Cadet's Diary'. It was a small red book let which covered the entire NCC syllabus. The book was published in so shoddy and hap hazard manner and was practically useless. It even had spelling mistakes in details like "Vir Chakra" (printed as Vir Hacark ). Rank information was incorrect, explanations for slightly tough cases like 'map reading', 'locating own position' etc. was even made more confusing etc. etc. I remember writing to the publisher about all these. No response received till date. If any one passed B and C Cert. exams, 99% it was because of the extra efforts taken by our PI Staff (JCO and NCOs).
Philip wrote:.A series on the IAF,IN and IA could be brought out with pics of eqpt. used apart from other general information.Shiv,your thoughts?
This must be done Philip. After seeing the quality and cost of Kapils's Anveshan publication of Kedar's Red Flag book - I think this is very doable. I will liaise with Kapil about the type of book etc. Images should be nor problem - ditto content.
Bear roared towards Mysore, covering a total of 90 miles, while I kept looking on the screens in front of me trying to identify targets tracked by the APG-80 AESA radar. After touching 20,000 feet and swimming back through the clouds, all of which gave me a ‘heavenly’ and a ‘divine’ feeling, Bear asked me to fire ammunition from the right side throttle onto my left screen as there was an air target visible. I promptly obeyed as I was waiting for this moment, after which it was my turn to handle controls mid-air. I played with the throttle making the Viper dance in air
Before Foxtrot-9 could announce landing, I persuaded Mikhail to attempt a half-Cobra, which he did. The vertical pull-up pumped blood faster than expected into my upper body, for a split second. On the coloured laser-infrared screen I could see ground targets which were detected by the AESA radars, but I was told not to touch anything red, black or yellow inside.
Along with the book idea, is there any chance of selling a CD of the high-res pictures of AI-09? If so, I would like to purchase a couple of them (one for my desktop backgrounds, one for my dad) since it'll beat scanning the images from the book manually.
Also on a side note, didn't the forum have a donate link at one point? What happened to it? It's been a while since I last donated.
Bear roared towards Mysore, covering a total of 90 miles, while I kept looking on the screens in front of me trying to identify targets tracked by the APG-80 AESA radar . After touching 20,000 feet and swimming back through the clouds, all of which gave me a ‘heavenly’ and a ‘divine’ feeling, Bear asked me to fire ammunition from the right side throttle onto my left screen as there was an air target visible. I promptly obeyed as I was waiting for this moment, after which it was my turn to handle controls mid-air. I played with the throttle making the Viper dance in air
krishnan, that part of the article deals with her F-16 flight.
SaiK,
It surprises me(not as much as it used to though) that you somehow connect the Ms. Sharma's flight in an F-16 and MiG-35 to LCA when infact the former two are competing against each other for the MRCA contract and not with the LCA.
This was a hurried talk, and Dr. Saraswat had to leave out many of the juicy, electronics and seeker related parts, and only give an overview of the missiles. Pity really.... anyway, what I did take down is here:
Advances in Indian Missile Technology
- Dr. VK Saraswat
Indian Missile development today are under two groups
- Tactical missiles, such as the Brahmos, Astra, LRSAM and the SRSAM
- Strategic missiles such as Agni 3, Agni-5, AAD, AD-1, etc.
- There is also the HSDTV {{it appears to be for missile use, but not sure}}
The initial missile technology programs began with Devil and Valiant - at this stage, up to the 1980, we were fully reliant on imports for our missiles. After the IGMDP, we have reduced the need for imports to around 50-70%. By 1990, when the IGMDP technologies began to mature, these numbers also dropped... by 2010-2020, our technology requirements should be complete, and we should be able to develop any class of missile on our own, although we will continue to have JVs to gain more technology.
A. Current Missiles:
Prithvi:
The first missile developed under IGMDP... Gave us the following capabilities:
- INS
- Rivets in Aluminium
- Liquid Propulsion Technology
- Digital Electronics
- Control and Guidance
- 3 Variants - P1, P2 and Dhanush (which requires a stabilized platform that can be stable to +/- 5 degrees even in rough seas)
Agni:
- A3 Flight tests are complete
- Production will start soon
- Is road mobile
- A5 in 2010
Astra:
- 3712 mm long, 78 mm diameter(or should it be 178 mm??), 160 kg weight
- Dual Pulse smokeless motor
- Low Observable wings
- Flight evaluation underway
BrahMos:
- Canisterized
- Homing head
Akash:
- 27 km range
- 30m - 18 km engagement {{altitude??}}
- Multi-target handling
Nag (Helina):
- Will have a FCS and a data link
- 7 km range
- 2 guidance modes being looked at - LOBL and LOAL
- LOBL will have a High res IIR seeker, with Fire and forget capabilities
- LOAL will use an RF data link and will have two modes, one of which is a Fire, observe and Guide mode (I didnt write down teh other mode)
B. Future Missiles:
1. LRSAM:
- JV between IAI and BDL
- 70 km range
- 4.55 m long, 225 mm diameter, 275 kg weight
- Boost to HTK (someone decode plz)
- Solid rocket pulse motor
- GPS + data link midcourse correction
- 4 Array PA radar seeker for terminal guidance (I think PA = Patch Antenna).
- Work under progress.
2. SRSAM:
- 15 km range
- 3-10 km altitude
- VLS launched
- Multitarget capable
- Will have Jet Vane TVC control - Jet vanes were used on the AAD, and will be used here as well. they are also developing the Si-SiC materials and ceramics reqd for the Jet vanes.
- Smokeless Solid Rocket motor
- Tri-service will be users
- Enabled for NCW ACCS
{{Please decode this info and the abbreviations}}
Currently under design - not mentioned if it was a JV or if we are going it alone.
C. Project AD:
We are looking at a layered defense engagement of incoming BMs. This can be done in 3 regions:
We are going in for a late-midcourse & terminal engagement layered BMD system (PAD + AAD). This choice means that we need to give up the Shoot-look-shoot policy and go for a shoot-shoot-shoot doctrine.
The design is for a 2 layered TMD system, with first engagement at 70-100 km exo-atm altitude, and <30 km endo-atm engagement.
This calls for a wide area netwoork entailing distributed IP based WAN n/w., with Triplex communication redundancy, and a latency time of less than a few milliseconds.
All of this is highly advanced and complicated technology that we have developed.
Additionally, the maneuvering AD missiles need terminal RF seekers and 25-30G maneuverability.
1. PAD/AAD
- 2000 km assets
- 40-100 km (PAD) & 30 m to 30 km (AAD) engagement,.
2. AD-1/2
- Meant to kill 5000 km range assets
- Will have an IR seeker
- 5-6G eng manueverability
- Piff-paff solid motor {{I assume that this isn't some kids toy, so someone plz explain}}
3. Multiple Kill Vehicles (MKV)
- FOr MIRV kills
- will have autonomous terminal kill capability
- IR telescope dispenser and guided KVs
- High fire power approach
- Will attack at the exo-atm altitude
4. Cruise Missile Defense
- while missiles like AAD can easily handle CM threats at heights of 30 m, there is a need for different sensors, such as Space/airborne sensors, including satellite radars, UAVs, and AWACS. These Network of sensors must feed read time info to the mission control centre.
5. Counter-counter measures:
- Development of Counter-counter measures is also ongoing
- classified, so no info given.
D. Future Thrust Areas:
1. Airframe & materials:
- Accuracy and Reliability,
- Lighter missiles - while Indian missiles are state of the art in terms of performance, they are relatively heavier.
- High performance nanomaterials - Carbon Nanotubes
- Composite Casing
2. Propulsion:
- New propellants - high perm {{I wrote this, but cant seem to decode it now :-( }}
- Conical Rocket motors
- Carbon- Carbon thin nozzles
- Liquid fuel Ramjet
3. Guidance and Seekers:
- PGMs
- PGMS require cheap mini IIR/mmW seekers {{Rakall, you must be happy}} AND
- microminiature INS control.
- All our missiles have the indigenous INS,
- We are also coming up with System on chip INS in the near future.
- A Star Tracking Guidance is also under development - {{I wonder if this is for A5 or AD. It is not for BrahMos}}.
Seekers, a lot of work has been done on IIR, RF and laser seekers. However, we still do face issues.
- AAD has an indigenous RF seeker
- 20 kg weight
- AAD seeker can detect a 0.3 m2 RCS object at 30 km range.
- EO/IR seekers are also under development, in terms of dual mode MWIR and LWIR seeking {{I've written ladalar or something like here.... can someone decode??}}
4. Electronics:
- Electronically scanned array is required for RF seekers and other uses
- Smart Skins
- Conformal antennas
5. MIRV and Decoys:
- Are being developed
- Need active Em jammers
- Also need Thermal signature manipulation
E. Hypersonics:
- HSTDV will be a Hypersonic Cruise missile
- It will have Kerosone scramjet engine
- Travel at 6.5 Mach
- 32.5 km {{altitude??}}
- Has a scramjet flight duration of ~ 20 sec
It will have a solid rocket boost launch, after which the scramjet will kick in, to take it to 6.5-8 Mach. It will travel around 20 sec at this speed at the cruising altitude, before descending and being guided to the tawrget.
Propulsion requires a hydrocarbon based dual mode motor development. Other materials requirements are:
- Ti Superalloys are needed,
- So are TBCs
- And Thermal Paints
- Star Tracking could be for the HSTDV {{Could it?? I mention it because the star tracking slide was jst after HSTDV}}
F. Directed Energy Weapons:
We are also developing a High Energy Laser Weapon, similar to the American ABL, for Boost phase intercept.
This is a JV between LASTEC and RCI {{I spoke to some LASTEC guys about it, but there was absolutely no info that they'd give - in fact, they were even surprised how I even knew, till I mentioned saraswat... Will give a report on Lastec later. Have also sent a brochure of Lastec to rakall to scan}}
They have to factor in for guidance, changes in direction and attenuation. A continuous wave laser has been developed and has generated 10-15 kW of power.
OK, Some notes from the Seminar talk by the Eurofighter Gmbh CEO, Mr. Aloysius Rouen. Sorry for the delay in bringing this one.
Anyway, the talk itself, unlike normal Seminar Plenaries, was low on detail and high on rhetoric - as is obvious from the fact that it was a selling talk. However, if that were indeed the case, then the CEO chose the wrong platform to sell his idea in such a way.
Anyway, here is the talk:
Eurofighter Typhoon - Perspectives and Trends
A. Typhoon Achievements in 2008:{{This one came with a neat little video...}}
Jan 16 - 1st Tranche 2 a/c - IPA7 1st flight
Mar 20 - Last tranche 1 delivered
May 26 - Green Flag West, Nellis AFB
June 12 - Typhoon takes over QRA Duties for S. Germany.
July 1 - RAF Multirole capable
Jul 17 - All 5 nations on QRA (someone expand this plz)
August - fleet completes 50,000 flying hours
Oct 10 - 1st Tranche 2 delivery.
B. Typhoon Features:
1. Development:
The Typhoon development has followed a "Poor man's approach" to aicraft design, in that they had to partner with many countries to develop the plane. This meant that every user had to compromise on some requirements in order to lower development costs and bring about collaboration.
2. Multirole:
Given that the Typhoon will be replacing almost 11 fighter aircrafts in the user countries, it would certainly have to be a multirole/swing-role aircraft. The advantage of it being multirole means that there can be smaller fleets required, which reduces the cost of doing the job.
{{Comment - This is somewhat like the rafale, which is replacing 7 varied types of aircraft in French service. However, unlike the Rafale, which is replacing extremely varied aircraft, the Typhoon is mainly replacing Air superiority aircraft, which kinda negates their above argument of multirole, which is bolstered by the Typhoon development history.
Additionally, the EF argument (which I also got from the airshow) is that since it is so modern, has AESA, can supercruise, yada yada yada, even though it is expensive, you'll need less numbers, which I found a bit disingenuous, given that other aircraft also come close to its performance, if not match it.}}
3. Fleet Efficiency:
The Fleet efficiency is a balance between procurement costs, operational costs and performance.
This means that a smaller number of very capable a/c are cheaper to operate than a larger number of cheaper, less capable aircraft.
{{This seemed to be a point to counter the Mig-35, and he stressed on this in a big way - suggests a trend to the contest, or which aircraft they are worried about??}}
To give an example of the Typhoon performance, he gave the statistic that it can go from Brakes off to Mach 1.6 at 36,000 feet in 150 seconds.
The CEO also showed a slide with statistics from RAND corp, which showed the a/c required for a given operation {{The Op was unspecified, but I'm guessing CAS}}. The F-22 came in 1st with the lowest number of aircraft required for the job, followed by the Typhoon, the JSF close behind it, then the Rafale, F-18E/F and the gripen in last. Mig-35 didn't figure.
4. Sensor Fusion:
The Typhoon gives superior situational awareness with the help of many sensors - the primary AESA sensors, the IRST for medium range, and the ESM-EW suite for long range operation.
These data are fused to give 360 degree spherical S2A threats, A2A and A2G sensing.
C. Development:
The Typhoon project is underway in 3 phases:
Main Development:
This has been completed (Tranche 2) and mainly involved making the EF A2A/A2G swingrole capable with stress on NCW.
Phase 1 Enhancement (P1E):
Currently in progress (Tranche 2+). This involves making the Typhoon Simultaneous Swing Role capable (ie, Multirole). Weapons are also being integrated, including a Laser Designating Pod, an enhanced GBU-16 and Paveway IV.
{{Typhoon still isn't simulataneous MR capable!! and it doesn't yet have an LDP!! EF must be crazy to try and tomtom that as an achievement}}
Next Enhancement:
This is currently under definition (Tranche 3 and beyond), and is planned to give the Typhoon more reach, both in sensing and in weaponry. The additions include:
- AESA E-Scan radar
- Meteor, Taurus
- Supersonic Paveway IV
- Small Diameter Bombs
- Brimstone
- Storm Shadow.
{{No mention of EW and SP suites here}}
The reason for not developing an E-scan now itself is that the risk becomes manageable later, which will also lead to schedule and cost adherence.
{{Perhaps the idiots who are criticizing the LCA may want to pay attention to the above point}}
The Current M-Scan radar is state of the art till 2014. The AESA will come into service after that. {{Remember that Tejas Mk.2 will be ready around this time as well}}
D. Users & Production:
1. Users:
Tranche 3 is currently under negotiation and 236 aircraft are planned.
As of now, 707 EF have been ordered - 620 in the core program, 15 from Austria and 72 from Saudi Arabia/
Austria has currently recieved 9 out of their 15 a/c. They will receive the last 6 in May 09.
Saudi Arabian order delivery will commence in June-July 2009. The first flight of a Saudi Typhoon was in Oct 2008.
2. Technology Status:
- Type Acceptance of Blk 8 aircraft done.
- Tranche 2 Weapons and Radar testing is undeway {{Tejasites, take note}}
- Microwave landing system tests have been completed
- Long range flights >6hrs duration have been completed... the latest being the journey from Germany to Bangalore with IFR.
- Basic Testing Helmet Assembly completed
- IFR platforms are the A310 MRTT in Germany (which was displayed in AI) and the KC-130J for Italy. The Typhoon can also be adapted for any other platforms as well.
{{Comment: There seems to be a contest to use journeys to Bangalore to prove the aircraft's long range flying capabilities - the Mig-35 did it last time, EF this time}}
3. Production
- 167 aircraft delivered. These include 7 Instrumentation and Production Aircrafts - IPA {{Similar to our LSP I guess}}, and 1 fatigue test aircraft.
- Tranche 1 = 147 delivered
- Tranche 2 = 60 in final assembly. Deliveries are in progress
{{Someone take note of the number of years the line has been running}}
- Lines will be open till 2020 with the current orders itself, and there will be no problem in adding extra production capability.
- Till now, 10 AFBs have Typhoons based there. The base crew are also augmented by a Typhoon "In-service User group", which aids in on-base maintenance, and high serviceability. {{The list was given, but I couldn't copy it in time}}
4. Partnership:
Alenia = 21%
BAe = 33%
EADS CASA = 13% - Wng design, structural testing
EADS Deutschland = 33% - FCS, Attack and Ident, Radar Signature
- Production of the aircraft is in different parts in different countries, with each country being a single source for that partbased on the numbers on order - for eg, Britain makes one wing (the left I think) while Spain makes the other one. Germany makes the fuselage parts, etc...
5. Sales Prospects:
RFPs - India (126) and Switzerland (30) - both also have the Rafale
Expected RFPs - Japan (50) and Romania (48)
RFI - Bulgaria (15) and Turkey.
E. What India can expect:
1. Parnership:
- Partnership in the consortium, which equals ownership. {{He did not elaborate on how this is done, or how other outside customers are partners. However, if we will have a minority share in the consortium based on later investment, based on numbers, we should have around 10-13% of the stake}}
2. Transparency
- All the technology will be given {{again, suspect, since he did not elaborate - only said that we don't believe in trade secret, inpection, etc}}.
- "No Black boxes"
- Source codes {{may be given - not explicitly said}}
- No EUVs etc
- Will be free to integrate what ever we want {{However,he did not say that EF will help in integration, something that the Saab guys were clear that they'd do - the point being that if the OEM doesn't help in weapons & subsystems integration and testing, we're stuck}}
3. ToT:
- Full ToT will be given
- "No secrets"
4. Access to Technology
- Access to the most modern technology
- {{Unfortunately, the fact that he grouped Technology separate from ToT worries me - does that mean that EF will only allow us to use the tech, not get it ToT'ed?? He skirted a question on that}}.
Some facts on EF
- 57,000 hours flown by the fleet in 10 units
- 3.5 bn Euro revenue
- 19.1 bn Euro order backlog
- 400 cos involved
- over 100,000 jobs generated.
Coming to the Eurojet talk:
Eurojet and the European Industry:
- Helmut J. Tenter
EJ200
- >1.1 lakh engine hours flown
- 400+ engines in service
- 1500 engines on contract
- 20,000 lbf (90+ kN) with reheat
- 13,500 lbf (60 kN) dry thrust.
- They have said that they'd be willing to partner for the Kaveri program (who hasn't) and provide ToT if needed.
- On integrating the EJ200 for the Kaveri - he said, we can definitely try and fit it in, if asked to. When asked about the alternative - that of putting EJ-Kaveri on the Typhoon, he said we'll have to see about how best the requirements are met, and whether that can be achieved.
Nothing much from this talk, other than the usual brochure recap.
Comment:
OK... apart from the comments above, a bit of extra comments from me:
1. In reply to a question from an IAF Wing Co about what if some of the member countries refused to give tech, or had problem, etc, Roeun said that once the initial agreement was signed, it would be binding on the countries. Given that the Consortium itself was involved, and there would be no problems on that.
However, he did skirt the issue of what if there were embargos and the countries refused to give the tech. Additionally, the Consortium is king argument didn't really seem to cut ice with the questioner himself.
2. On ToT - again quite vague on the level of ToT being offered - he did mention source codes, etc, which leads one to believe that those will be given (esp if they want to compete credibly against the Rafale). However, given that there is tech ownership by the individual stakeholders (based on the business model of the venture), It is hard to see how we will not end up getting a downgraded stuff, his most modern tech argument notwithstanding.
3. The weapons itself and whether they'd help us integrate Israeli subsystems, or Russian weapons, he said, we will definitely give everything that India needs to fulfil its requirements. We will not have any problems with you putting any systems of your choice - again, no mention about whether they'd help integrate it. Just the vague assurance that we'd get everything needed to do it.
Additionally, he mentioned that they'd have to see if the subsystems could actually be fitted.
{{In comparison, the Saab guys I spoke to were positive - they said that if it fits the pylon, they dont care who the manufacturer is. They'd help us integrate and test the weapon - the same going for subsystems as well - they pointed out the Thai and SAAF orders as examples. More on the Saab talk later.}}
4. LO or stealth wasnt even breathed in the talk... Given the amount of aerodynamic tweaking done, I doubt that Stealth will be one of their selling points.
5. Very little specifics, even when questioners tried to pin him to them (after all, who better to answer than the CEO)... mostly Rhetoric, although, i gotta say, he was a very forceful speaker.
Overall, I think the Typhoon is a doubtful contender, not in terms of tech, but in terms of the extra risk and strings attached. Additionally, given that they themselves are unsure over the order and fineprint, I think we should be a bit wary of the buy.
Shiv,let's set up a meeting with some "brassy guys" in the near future,as promised earlier ,now that the excitement of the air show is over.I'll talk to some NCC veterans too for their input.The Ex-Servicemen's outfit can also do a lot to help out,with assistance from the respective PR outfits of the services.As many have said,after seeing the super work that BR folks have done,it is massive talent that needs to shout from the rooftops! I don't think that funding will be a problem either for such a venture.In addition,the CDs produced by BR offer a visual treat too.
k prasad wrote:I will try and post the following by tomorrow:
- Dr. Varadarajan's talk on Airborne Radar Development
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....
- Yair Ramati - Future Aerospace market trends.
- Will see if I've to add anything to the Rafale guy's talk.
.........
Anything I've promised but forgotten??? Please remind me...
.........
Prasad
Status:
Done:
- Dr. Varadarajan's talk on Airborne Radar Development
- Dr. Revankar - EW sensor development
- Dr. Saraswat - Indian Missile developmnet
- Eurofighter and Eurojet CEO's talk at Aeroseminar
- Yair Ramati - Future Aerospace market trends.
To Do:
- Malkondaiah (DMRL) - Aerospace materials development in India
- Dr. Selvamurthy - Life Support Systems for Air Force.
- Talk with Saab ppl
- Talk with Raytheon guys
- Impressions about the F-18 simulator (I got a chance to fly it) & about the F-18E/F
- Will see if I've to add anything to the Rafale guy's talk.
Anything I've promised but forgotten??? Please remind me...
Done:
- Dr. Varadarajan's talk on Airborne Radar Development
- Dr. Revankar - EW sensor development
- Dr. Saraswat - Indian Missile developmnet
- Eurofighter and Eurojet CEO's talk at Aeroseminar
- Yair Ramati - Future Aerospace market trends.
Prasad
Prasad,
Was travelling on weekend... missed the updates on Dr.Varadrajan & Revankar's talk till now..
Just caughtup with the updates -- and everything that was to be noted is there "as expected".
We are on the right path in terms of radars - including airborne radars.. We will complete the learning curve in 3-4years and then can play with the toys at will..
Esp the DARE stuff corroborates what was told at DARE stall.. We will be very very self-sufficient and cutting-edge in EWsystems in 3-5years.. we will have an excellent internal-SPJ and all that..
Could anyone who was at the event comment on the impression made by the Israeli companies?
(Sorry for posting this twice-first in the wrong thread-but my flu is taking its tole)
Your write ups have been one of the best reading material posted by any poster on BR. It has a wonderful flow and a great story like feel to it at the same time informative and full of very nice goodies and all that a BR jingo would like to know. You should seriously consider wirting for SRR. Keep up your great job.
Speculating, but this thread probably outdid the TSP thread last week.
K Prasad wrote:
Jul 17 - All 5 nations on QRA (someone expand this plz)
K Prasad, the Typhoon has taken over QRA duties for all the member countries. I read about it in quite a few issues of ACM and AFM will try to dig out the issues and see if I can scan of the articles. From what I can remember, they have two aircrafts on QRA at the relevant bases. There were also recent pictures of the EFs intercepting Blackjacks and Bears snooping near UK airspace...
Also did anyone see a Topgear episode where James May got a flight in an EF and the thing shot off the runway like a damn rocket straight up in the sky...
I really wish I did.. 
). Rank information was incorrect, explanations for slightly tough cases like 'map reading', 'locating own position' etc. was even made more confusing etc. etc. I remember writing to the publisher about all these. No response received till date. If any one passed B and C Cert. exams, 99% it was because of the extra efforts taken by our PI Staff (JCO and NCOs).
) he has lost weight. thanks for the pics all fotwa keench ne wale gurus!
. After touching 20,000 feet and swimming back through the clouds, all of which gave me a ‘heavenly’ and a ‘divine’ feeling, Bear asked me to fire ammunition from the right side throttle onto my left screen as there was an air target visible. I promptly obeyed as I was waiting for this moment, after which it was my turn to handle controls mid-air. I played with the throttle making the Viper dance in air