China Military Watch

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 18 Feb 2009 20:38

vavinash, did I just ask not to continue in the same vein ?
do not allow yourself to become a tool for thread derailment.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 18 Feb 2009 20:39

EDITED.
I've made a request and repeated it once.
Plz heed it.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Feb 2009 20:47

And - for a comparison of agility and an exercise in monotony..

Ta Daaaaa

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 18 Feb 2009 21:16

Seems to me that the flight envelope hasn't been completely opened up and that they have pushed it in numbers just as a deterrent. Interesting strategy. The LCA is way more mature in flight envelope terms and now that weaponization is nearly complete, shouldn't we do the same?

wrdos · Post by **wrdos** » 19 Feb 2009 11:15

Vivek K wrote:Seems to me that the flight envelope hasn't been completely opened up and that they have pushed it in numbers just as a deterrent. Interesting strategy. The LCA is way more mature in flight envelope terms and now that weaponization is nearly complete, shouldn't we do the same?

Hmmm. J10A has been mass produced since 6 years ago. Hundreds of them are flying around the country.

Before the LCA even go to service (2012 or 2015 or...?), it is meaningless to talk about its "maturity".Let's wait another 10 years, OK?

parshuram · Post by **parshuram** » 19 Feb 2009 11:36

To Mods : People don't seem to understand .. purely offtopic where does flaming comaprison between J-10 and LCA comes into picture now

... they need a booty i guess

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 19 Feb 2009 11:55

wrdos wrote:Hmmm. J10A has been mass produced since 6 years ago. Hundreds of them are flying around the country.

I do not doubt your statement about the mass production. I did not criticize its capabilities. I have in fact in a way praised China's use of domestic weapons as a deterrence that India should follow with the LCA program.

But if you cannot see that then .......

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 19 Feb 2009 13:00

Yes J-10 has been mass produced like Mig-19 clones but doesn't change the fact that it is at best a gen 3-3.5 plane. I would actually love to see it perform at Paris air show, london, moscow or even aero India sometime.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 19 Feb 2009 13:12

vavinash, calling J-10 a 3-3.5 gen is certainly a flamebait and provocation.
kindly avoid it.

Next person who gets personal/uses flamebaits/etc etc, gets an official warning.
That also counts for those responding to flames.
No exceptions.
Rahul.

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 19 Feb 2009 13:16

My mistake

I was thinking about JF-17. Yes J-10 would certainly fall in 4th gen. Just below F-16 blk 50 I guess.

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 19 Feb 2009 13:36

shiv wrote:And - for a comparison of agility and an exercise in monotony..

Ta Daaaaa

Yup, look at the clumsy climb and turn. No doubt the J-10 is not as good as the chinese claim

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 19 Feb 2009 14:01

Hmmm clean config and maybe half a tank. Not bad for a chinese plane but nothing to write home about. Comparision with F-22 is hilarious. F-16A/B more like it.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 19 Feb 2009 14:08

http://bbs.cjdby.net/viewthread.php?tid ... a=page%3D1
新疆军区上演现实版许三多：热水壶暴露目标
..........
不知不觉，50分钟过去了。侦察分队队长常增荣眼睛依然紧盯着夜视仪显示屏，心里直扑腾：再过10分钟，还发现不了目标，这场较量就要以侦察分队的失败告终……

然而，就在这时，夜视仪屏幕突然一亮。常增荣迅速操纵热成像仪和激光测距机，将热源影像数据牢牢锁定。5秒后，他向团指挥所通报：“九连潜伏地带已被发现！”
......
于是，侦察分队队长常增荣来到九连，根据目标数据径直走到一名战士跟前，上下打量他一番，摘下这名战士的水壶，说：“就是这水壶里的热水，暴露出了你们的潜伏位置！”

原来，这位名叫张八强的战士夜训前灌了一水壶热开水，怕水变凉了，一直揣在怀里暖着。潜伏中，他趴在地上，把这个“热源”捂得挺严实。眼看演练就要结束，他感觉水壶已经不太热了，于是偷偷取出来喝了一口。没想到，这一大意的举动，立即被侦察分队的红外夜视器材发现了。
......

it is a funny articles about a PLA's exercise in Xinjiang MR(miliatary region).
Title: "Disaster Caused by A Deadly Warm-water Bottle!"

During a recent military excercise in Xinjiang MR, the "blue army" was defeated,just for one "deadly warm-water bottle".

It was a mission of "Camouflage" vs " detect&search". "the blue army" tried to hide itself while the "red army" tried to detect&search the hidden "blue army"

At first ,"the blue army" performed very well. But 10 minutes before the mission ended,, one soldier of "blue army" opened his warm-hot bottle and had a drink. Due to the "Abnormal infrared radiation",the " opened warm-water bottle was immediately detected and locked by "the red army" ,with Infrared night vision equipments.

Then, the exposed "blue army" are "bombed" immediately and "destroyed".

the "deadly warm-water bottle".

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 19 Feb 2009 14:12

Liu,

It would hep us to understand better if a translation of the Chinese is also appended. Right now, it is an interesting thing about warm water bottle, but then one does not know what's up!

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 19 Feb 2009 14:40

Liu, your chinese servers aren't working for us outside china.
consider uploading pics somewhere else like imageshack (unless that is banned too).

at present I can only see a skeletal dragon on a red background.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 19 Feb 2009 21:13

Galileo and the Chinese: one thing after another
by Taylor Dinerman
Monday, February 9, 2009
Comments (4)

A number of sources now indicate that the Chinese are refusing to change the frequencies they plan to use for their new and improved Beidou (Compass) satellite navigation system. This creates a big, big problem for their estranged European partners in the Galileo consortium. Reports from the recent International Committee on Global Navigation Satellite Systems (ICG) meeting, held in December 2008 in Pasadena, indicate that while the US was able to reach an agreement with China on a few minor issues, Europe was unable to get China to change its plans to use a frequency that will render the Galileo Public Regulated Service (PRS) signals pretty much useless for military purposes unless China first gives permission. This is the so-called frequency overlay issue.

If things continue as they are, a system that was intended, as former French President Jacques Chirac said, to prevent Europe from becoming the “technological vassal” of the Americans, has now produced a situation where the European Union (EU) is going to be subservient to the Chinese. Reports have it that the Europeans were very angry, but what did they expect?

The Chinese feel that they were badly used and partly humiliated by Europe. They were brought into the Galileo consortium as partners, and they paid the EU for the privilege, only to see themselves shut out of Galileo’s controlling bodies. Some in Europe hoped that by bringing the Chinese into the system they would lay the basis for a China-EU entente aimed at weakening the US. Yet at the end of the day China would have had less influence over Galileo than Japan and India have over GPS, and those two nations have not paid the US a single dime for their cooperation in the signal augmentation systems they are now building.
No one should dream of underestimating the determination of the EU’s ruling elite to build Galileo. However, the project’s delays and cost overruns are raising some interesting possibilities.

Even more interesting is the story that the Europeans are not only mad at the Chinese, they are also mad at the Americans. Washington has refused to put pressure on Beijing to comply with their wishes. This is ironic, of course, in that Galileo was not exactly conceived with the best interests of the United States in mind. It seems that some EU negotiators even threatened to pull out of the 2004 US-European agreement on the frequency overlay issue—not exactly the best way to begin their relationship with the new Obama Administration.

No one should dream of underestimating the determination of the EU’s ruling elite to build Galileo. They have long seen it as a cornerstone of the new European entity they hope will become the most important superpower in what they expect will be a “Post-American” world. They will pursue it even if it hurts their relations with both the US and China. It has taken on a symbolic value all its own, and thus no matter what happens economically and diplomatically the show will go on.

However, the project’s delays and cost overruns are raising some interesting possibilities. Russia is rapidly rebuilding its GLONASS system and it will soon be back in full operation and for certain Arctic applications it may even be superior to GPS. Japan’s Quasi-Zenith Satellite System (QZSS) operates as a highly effective augmentation to GPS and provides Japan with all the technological benefits that Europe claims Galileo will give them at a much lower cost, economically and politically.

China has, according to reliable reports, made impressive advances with their advanced second generation system. It may turn out that the Beidou constellation will be operational before Galileo. This should not be a real surprise since the cumbersome EU decision-making and budgeting process is no match for China’s centralized governing system. What may be more of a surprise is that China seems to be able to match the accuracies of both the US GPS and the ones Galileo hopes to attain. If confirmed, this will raise some interesting questions inside the US and Europe as to how they were able to master the technology so quickly.

Funding Galileo in the current economic downturn may present the EU leaders with new challenges. After they discovered that no commercial firm was willing to put its own money into the system, they reprogrammed funds from the European Union’s famous Common Agricultural Program (CAP) that they thought were not going to be needed for price support payments to farmers due to high worldwide demand. Now that the demand, and the high prices that went along with it, have disappeared, will the farmers be looking to somehow recover these resources?

Decades from now it may be that people will see Galileo as having been a wise investment, one that gave Europe a valuable tool with which to assert itself on the world stage. Or, perhaps, not.

Taylor Dinerman is an author and journalist based in New York City
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1307/1

well, European are ranting and get mad ,because Chinese "Compass" satellite navigation system seems to advanced more quickly than "Galileo" and has occupied the frequency of "Galileo" already.

It is really surprising that Yankees cooperate Chinese to piss european on the case......it seems that the evil axies of Being-Washington is emerging long before people thought.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 19 Feb 2009 21:29

^ Wouldn't it be nice if you start linking to the original source instead of other forums. Above link is from a chinese forum which is not original source. BTW original source is space review.

In the other thread the links you posted are from milphotos forum which is also not the original source.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Feb 2009 21:44

Liu wrote: well, European are ranting and get mad ,because Chinese "Compass" satellite navigation system seems to advanced more quickly than "Galileo" and has occupied the frequency of "Galileo" already.

It is really surprising that Yankees cooperate Chinese to piss european on the case......it seems that the evil axies of Being-Washington is emerging long before people thought.

Wow I'm impressed. What great people. Yerrow man bettel than white and all. But how come the J-10 can't do a loop?

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 19 Feb 2009 22:06

If chinese are using the same frequencies then Europeans are whining because low quality chinese signals willl interfere with their signals. Nobody considers chinese space tech to be remotely advanced.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 19 Feb 2009 22:12

vavinash wrote:If chinese are using the same frequencies then Europeans are whining because low quality chinese signals willl interfere with their signals. Nobody considers chinese space tech to be remotely advanced.

indeed, Chinese space tech is very terrible. its low-quality signal is just as crappy as its shoes, so just have a good sleep.

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 19 Feb 2009 22:17

Thanks for acknowledging the truth.

KiranM · Post by **KiranM** » 19 Feb 2009 22:27

Looking into my tea leaves I predict a storm rising, especially for the Adminullahs, in the Oriental thread.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 19 Feb 2009 22:41

What's happening? China is known to use smugglers/mafia as unofficial intel agents. Did a intel operation go horribly wrong? A ship under investigation tries to "run away" and is forced to come back only after repeated warnings from the navy. atleast 500 rounds are fired as warning shots. Note there weren't many people eager to rescue the "sailors".

Seven missing after Russia sinks Chinese ship

Thursday, 19 February , 2009, 16:12

Beijing: Seven Chinese sailors are missing after a cargo ship sank in Russian waters near Japan, media reports said on Thursday. Three of the 10 Chinese sailors onboard were saved but seven are still missing after the ship sank off the waters of Vladivostok, the Chinese foreign ministry said in a statement.

The ministry didn't mention the cause of the incident, saying rescue efforts and an investigation into the incident are ongoing, the China Daily said. But the Global Times, a Beijing-based Chinese language newspaper - citing a Russian newspaper - said Wednesday the ship was fired on by the Russian navy before it sank.

New Star, the cargo ship, was sequestered at the Russian port of Nakhodka earlier this month for alleged smuggling. It left the port not far from the Sino-Russian border without permission from Russian authorities last Thursday and was chased by a cruiser, the newspaper said. Later, the warship shot at least 500 rounds onto the ship and forced it to sail back toward the port in force six winds.

However, the Chinese ship started to sink on the way. According to the report, in a period of almost 24 hours, Russian navy officers and soldiers onboard the cruiser watched the sinking boat and did not make any response to the cries for help from the crewmen.

In the end, 16 sailors onboard New Star got on two lifeboats. The Russian sailors managed to save one boat carrying eight people, while the other was engulfed in the waves. Three of the missing sailors are Chinese while the other five came from Indonesia, the report said.

The coastal coordination and assistance centre of Vladivostok announced Sunday that a Russian coast guard cruiser saved eight foreign sailors trapped by bad weather. It did not mention the alleged firing from the Russian navy.

However, a Russian media report said Wednesday the coast guard just found an empty boat in a three-day search. It also cited bad weather as the reason behind the accident. According the International Maritime Organisation, the owner of New Star is a shipping company of Zhejiang, while the operator is a company based in Guangzhou.

kit · Post by **kit** » 19 Feb 2009 23:30

I think reverse engineering is a good way to learn technology.I know because I have been taking apart almost every electronic and mechanical stuff i get since i was a child.Even if you dont make a clone, you will always get an insight to build a better one with proper production facilities and quality control.If you do get a couple of manuals then great !

Baljeet · Post by **Baljeet** » 20 Feb 2009 01:05

shiv wrote:
Liu wrote: well, European are ranting and get mad ,because Chinese "Compass" satellite navigation system seems to advanced more quickly than "Galileo" and has occupied the frequency of "Galileo" already.

It is really surprising that Yankees cooperate Chinese to piss european on the case......it seems that the evil axies of Being-Washington is emerging long before people thought.

Wow I'm impressed. What great people. Yerrow man bettel than white and all. But how come the J-10 can't do a loop?

Shiv
J-10 was proclaimed to be full FBW like Tejas, F-16 etc. Reality is completely different. IIRC only yaw, pitch are partial FBW. Roll is still done by hydraulics. I believe there was one article posted by some member long time ago where it said, chinese FBW is far from reality. European help dried up under US Pressure, US wasn't going to help them, well pakis in all reality are the master of universe

they flooded the internet blogs with their madarssa institute of terrorism degree that J10 is all FBW. Pakis took all the information about LCA, added some information from F-16, meshed them together for J-10, then beast became a monster that fueled flame baiting, jigoism across blogs and forums.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 20 Feb 2009 07:17

Baljeet wrote:
shiv wrote: Wow I'm impressed. What great people. Yerrow man bettel than white and all. But how come the J-10 can't do a loop?
Shiv
J-10 was proclaimed to be full FBW like Tejas, F-16 etc. Reality is completely different. IIRC only yaw, pitch are partial FBW. Roll is still done by hydraulics. I believe there was one article posted by some member long time ago where it said, chinese FBW is far from reality. European help dried up under US Pressure, US wasn't going to help them, well pakis in all reality are the master of universe they flooded the internet blogs with their madarssa institute of terrorism degree that J10 is all FBW. Pakis took all the information about LCA, added some information from F-16, meshed them together for J-10, then beast became a monster that fueled flame baiting, jigoism across blogs and forums.

you should have a mistake hiere.

" IIRC only yaw, pitch are partial FBW. Roll is still done by hydraulics" is FC-1/jf17, instead of J10.

CHinese FBW is very mature now. J10,JH7 , J11B and L15 all have FBW. JF17 has partial FBW just due to the limited budget.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 20 Feb 2009 07:21

Avinash R wrote:What's happening? China is known to use smugglers/mafia as unofficial intel agents. Did a intel operation go horribly wrong? A ship under investigation tries to "run away" and is forced to come back only after repeated warnings from the navy. atleast 500 rounds are fired as warning shots. Note there weren't many people eager to rescue the "sailors".

Seven missing after Russia sinks Chinese ship

Thursday, 19 February , 2009, 16:12

Beijing: Seven Chinese sailors are missing after a cargo ship sank in Russian waters near Japan, media reports said on Thursday. Three of the 10 Chinese sailors onboard were saved but seven are still missing after the ship sank off the waters of Vladivostok, the Chinese foreign ministry said in a statement.

The ministry didn't mention the cause of the incident, saying rescue efforts and an investigation into the incident are ongoing, the China Daily said. But the Global Times, a Beijing-based Chinese language newspaper - citing a Russian newspaper - said Wednesday the ship was fired on by the Russian navy before it sank.

New Star, the cargo ship, was sequestered at the Russian port of Nakhodka earlier this month for alleged smuggling. It left the port not far from the Sino-Russian border without permission from Russian authorities last Thursday and was chased by a cruiser, the newspaper said. Later, the warship shot at least 500 rounds onto the ship and forced it to sail back toward the port in force six winds.

However, the Chinese ship started to sink on the way. According to the report, in a period of almost 24 hours, Russian navy officers and soldiers onboard the cruiser watched the sinking boat and did not make any response to the cries for help from the crewmen.

In the end, 16 sailors onboard New Star got on two lifeboats. The Russian sailors managed to save one boat carrying eight people, while the other was engulfed in the waves. Three of the missing sailors are Chinese while the other five came from Indonesia, the report said.

The coastal coordination and assistance centre of Vladivostok announced Sunday that a Russian coast guard cruiser saved eight foreign sailors trapped by bad weather. It did not mention the alleged firing from the Russian navy.

However, a Russian media report said Wednesday the coast guard just found an empty boat in a three-day search. It also cited bad weather as the reason behind the accident. According the International Maritime Organisation, the owner of New Star is a shipping company of Zhejiang, while the operator is a company based in Guangzhou.

the ship was issued in Liberia. Furthermore ,it happened in Russia territorial water.
Although I am a chinese, I have to acknowledge that Russian are justified.

kobe · Post by **kobe** » 20 Feb 2009 10:04

vavinash wrote:Thanks for acknowledging the truth.

vavinash, please avoid flame baiting, please post something constructive and avoid desparaging other countries achievements. india has a lots more ways to go in high tech area. you should read more and type less.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 20 Feb 2009 11:12

Liu wrote:the ship was issued in Liberia. Furthermore ,it happened in Russia territorial water.

I think you mean "registered" in liberia. This happens all the time. Use of ships registered in some far off country to smuggle in goods or smuggle in agents. A china/hong kong registered ship would have raised suscipions but not an liberian registered ship.

And this piece of info makes this incident more interesting. The captain of the ship was not willing to save the ship and it's cargo. Something fishy going on, first trying to escape with ship and then letting it sink.

The Russian border control department has blamed the captain of the New Star for the deaths of his sailors, saying he was given adequate warning.

"[He] did not take all necessary measures to fight for the survivability of his ship," it said in a statement, according to the Kommersant newspaper.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7899662.stm

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 20 Feb 2009 12:07

vavinash wrote:Hmmm clean config and maybe half a tank. Not bad for a chinese plane but nothing to write home about. Comparision with F-22 is hilarious. F-16A/B more like it.

I do think the J-10 is a decent upgrade from J-7. But probably that's about it. I wouldn't put it in the same level of F-16A/B.

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 20 Feb 2009 12:23

Baljeet wrote: Shiv
J-10 was proclaimed to be full FBW like Tejas, F-16 etc. Reality is completely different. IIRC only yaw, pitch are partial FBW. Roll is still done by hydraulics. I believe there was one article posted by some member long time ago where it said, chinese FBW is far from reality. European help dried up under US Pressure, US wasn't going to help them, well pakis in all reality are the master of universe they flooded the internet blogs with their madarssa institute of terrorism degree that J10 is all FBW. Pakis took all the information about LCA, added some information from F-16, meshed them together for J-10, then beast became a monster that fueled flame baiting, jigoism across blogs and forums.

Are you sure that Tejas is full FBW??? Last I heard, it was only single-axis FBW (I think it was in the yaw axis)... in fact, except for the F117 and B2, I think all other RSS aircraft have also been single axis FBWs.....

can some of the experts reply to this on the relevant thread plz??

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 20 Feb 2009 15:00

ashi wrote:
vavinash wrote:Hmmm clean config and maybe half a tank. Not bad for a chinese plane but nothing to write home about. Comparision with F-22 is hilarious. F-16A/B more like it.
I do think the J-10 is a decent upgrade from J-7. But probably that's about it. I wouldn't put it in the same level of F-16A/B........

yes, J10 is just a upgraded J7. it in factis just in the same level of mg21-bis.

vina · Post by **vina** » 20 Feb 2009 15:38

k prasad wrote:Are you sure that Tejas is full FBW??? Last I heard, it was only single-axis FBW (I think it was in the yaw axis)... in fact, except for the F117 and B2, I think all other RSS aircraft have also been single axis FBWs.....

can some of the experts reply to this on the relevant thread plz??

Air craft motions are coupled. You cannot roll without yawing, cannot turn without banking etc. That part is basic kinematics /physics . Normally aircraft controls are normally coupled. When you roll, some amount of rudder deflection happens automatically to counter the yaw.

I dont difference between a "full " and "partial" FBW.The primary way to make the aircraft less stable is the pitch axis. ie move the wings forward, ie lift forward wrt gravity.

For roll stability, you dont want it to be too stable, because if you do, the aircraft will have the turn performance of a barn door. But for normal planes, you cant have it as unstable either. The "ideal" in a non FBW aircraft would be a slight positive roll stability. For eg, high wing airplanes will have an anhedral to reduce roll stability, low mounted planes will have a dihedral to increase roll stability etc.

Dont know, maybe in a "full" FBW aircraft, you can have roll to as basically unstable like the pitch and have it artificially stabilized by the FBW. Also, in an FBW aircraft, the control surfaces dont have to be coupled and the controls can be programmed to move independently.

Tejas with the high mounted wing, I think has the huge anhedral and a very visible wing twistv (look at photos which show it head on). Anhedral to reduce roll stability and twist to greater stall margin. If the roll stablility is "relaxed" , the FBW has to handle assymetrical loads etc (drop one bomb load from one wing, but other bomb still on the other wing kind of thing), that you would factor in fully in stability margin for a "normal" plane.

Just my thoughts etc.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Feb 2009 20:21

k prasad wrote:
Are you sure that Tejas is full FBW??? Last I heard, it was only single-axis FBW (I think it was in the yaw axis)... in fact, except for the F117 and B2, I think all other RSS aircraft have also been single axis FBWs.....

can some of the experts reply to this on the relevant thread plz??

My reply in LCA thread

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 21 Feb 2009 14:32

Thx a ton, vina and shiv-sir,

So Tejas is a single axis-RSS, but full axis FBW... I think that is what we were getting mixed up.

I think except for the B2 and F117, no other aircraft has relaxed static stability on more than one axis.... if i'm wrong, please correct me.

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 23 Feb 2009 01:46

Chinese J-11B a copy of the Su-27SK, say Russian officials news

The Chinese Navy has begun construction of its first aircraft carrier and needs Russian technology and experience.

http://www.domain-b.com/defence/general ... j_11b.html

b_patel · Post by **b_patel** » 23 Feb 2009 07:22

Chinese J-11B a copy of the Su-27SK, say Russian officials news

WOW that didn't take year to admit did it!! I find it funny that the Russians choose to admit it now. And they are still willing to sell the Chinese the Su-35. Wonder how long it would take china to copy and improve that plane.

"If we speak about the copy of the airplanes, I think that in this case, the original will always be better than a slightly modified copy,

HMMM. Maybe he hasn't heard of the Su-30MKI. It is definitely better than the Su-30MK. Also Israel's F-16 Sufa is much more advanced than its counterpart F-16. Even Japans F-2 if much more advanced than the F-16 it copied. It also was one of the first fighter planes to have an operational AESA.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 23 Feb 2009 17:40

b_patel wrote:
Chinese J-11B a copy of the Su-27SK, say Russian officials news
WOW that didn't take year to admit did it!! I find it funny that the Russians choose to admit it now. And they are still willing to sell the Chinese the Su-35. Wonder how long it would take china to copy and improve that plane.

"If we speak about the copy of the airplanes, I think that in this case, the original will always be better than a slightly modified copy,
HMMM. Maybe he hasn't heard of the Su-30MKI. It is definitely better than the Su-30MK. Also Israel's F-16 Sufa is much more advanced than its counterpart F-16. Even Japans F-2 if much more advanced than the F-16 it copied. It also was one of the first fighter planes to have an operational AESA.

the airframe of J11B looks like that of Su27sk,but its airframe structure,aviations ,FCS and radar are completely different from Su27sk.

soutikghosh · Post by **soutikghosh** » 24 Feb 2009 13:02

Excellent visual details on Air Defence set-up of PLA and their air-defence radars and weapons.

Link
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... p?t=152230

sum · Post by **sum** » 24 Feb 2009 22:12

Amazing stuff.

Has planeman ever posted such detailed review on Indian SAM cover/air defence etc?

I do remember reading his excellent analysis of Paki ballastic/cruise missile inventory.