Indian Police Reform

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 22 Feb 2009 20:44

Suyogv wrote:1st Ok I accept that my comment was wrong about encounters.
2nd Clearly mention Chota Rajans Aid I didnt deny that.
3rd 13 encounters might be a notable for you but in Mumbai 13 encounters in not worth thats all.

Thanks that you agree with my point.

And about the 3rd comment, The number of encounters have no doubt come down but the gangs themselves have also changed tactics.

Instead of in-your-face kind of intimidation to extort money and risking getting encountered, most of these encounters took place when the goons arrived to collect the extortion money, they started to colloborate and became part of the real estate, film making and other high investment-high risk businesses.

All they care is money and these encounters struck the fear of death in them, so they shifted to less risk (for life) crime.

dinakar · Post by **dinakar** » 22 Feb 2009 20:56

Rahul M wrote: errr... none of the links is working for me.
could you just give me a gist of what it says ?

It contains all the information about disposal of cases by police in 2007 statewise and also by courts in 2007 from National Crime record Board (NCRB). It als contains no of transport vehicles for each state police.
Anyway try this link NCRB

Suyogv · Post by **Suyogv** » 23 Feb 2009 09:46

I agree with Rahul Mehta!

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 23 Feb 2009 18:26

Gents,

Are we moving away from the topic? I mean we are moving into the realm of 'Judiciary' from the world of 'law enforcement'

.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 23 Feb 2009 18:52

suyog, I'm told you know a bit about mumbai police. it would be nice to hear any anecdotes you know.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 23 Feb 2009 19:06

Suyogv wrote:I told that Dawood, Rajan, Naik, Pujari, Satam, Shakeel etc gangs are no longer active in Crimes happening in Mumbai. I didn't say Mumbai is crime free
Let me tell you one interesting fact about Chota rajan gang. This gang is also know as Desh Bhakt gang. Chota Rajan was ally of Dawood. But when Dawood did 1993 blast C.Rajan didnt like this action of Dawood and separated from Dawood. After that Rajan wow to destroy Dawood gang. C.Rajan provides RAW info of Dawood (majority of info about Dawood comes through Rajan gang) Chota Rajan gang was never involved in Narcotics business because it harms youth of India Due to all this reason his gang is called as Desh Bhakt gang. And Police (weather Mumbai Police or other Indian law inforcement agency never tried to catch him just because he is main source of info of Dawood)
NOTE PLEASE MY THIS POST IS NOT RELATD TO MY PREVIOUS POST I AM WRITING THIS POST JUST BECAUSE I THOUGHT THIS INFO WILL BE INTRESTING TO BRFITES

The only reason Chhota Rajan wasnt in the Narcotics business was that between the Afghans, the Nigerians and Dawood, they had the supply, accumulate and distribution channels sewn up pretty tight. The Afghans and Nigerians were unwilling to risk open warfare with Dawood by supplying Rajan. The only option for him was to go via the Thailand and Malaysia route, which he tried ( note that he is still resident in those parts) and didnt succeed really well for reasons I dont know. But to attribute this to "desh bhakti" is like Pakis saying they won in 48, 65, 71 and Kargil.

Interesting list of gangs. Where does Mr. Gawli fit into this?

BTW, Chotta Rajan supplying information to RAW or whoever is not unique. In this business everyone rats out on everyone. Its not as if Rajan has the hotline to RAW as a contact in his cell phone. The way this bit works is police officers (mostly in Special Branch) have their own network of khabris that keep giving them tips, either as a "favour" or payoff... this network is that officers alone. The sad bit is the network goes away with the police officer... Anyways one gang is always tipping off about the other, thats how a majority of the information gets collated. Not "desh bhakti" again. Incidentally, when the 3 ATS officers were killed (Salaskar et al), the HUGE loss was of this network. Overnight, a significant intelligence source was gone. Salaskar alone would have had at least 1000 informants. Pradeep Sharma had 2000 or so I think...

AjayKK · Post by **AjayKK** » 23 Feb 2009 19:26

Tanaji wrote:Incidentally, when the 3 ATS officers were killed (Salaskar et al), the HUGE loss was of this network. Overnight, a significant intelligence source was gone. Salaskar alone would have had at least 1000 informants. Pradeep Sharma had 2000 or so I think...

An important point.

IMHo, with the passing over of the Vijay Salaskar--Pradeep Sharma--Praful Bhosale--Pradeep Sawant--Daya nayak--Sachin Vaze and Ravindra Angre --an era in Mumbai police/Crime Branch has ended.

The petty IPs aphsars and politicos have put end to a good network of informers and the police is left chasing political issues like Malegaon and Sadhvi and Purohit.

Tanaji wrote:The way this bit works is police officers (mostly in Special Branch) have their own network of khabris that keep giving them tips, either as a "favour" or payoff... this network is that officers alone.

True. The IPs aphsars give the go-ahead to the cop to maintain info -and-cash links with gangs to get info on their rivals. When the tide turns, the same encounter cop is accused of ''links with underworld''.

Only one with some credibility left is Rakesh Mar ia.

Suyogv · Post by **Suyogv** » 23 Feb 2009 19:33

Tanaji wrote:

The only reason Chhota Rajan wasnt in the Narcotics business was that between the Afghans, the Nigerians and Dawood, they had the supply, accumulate and distribution channels sewn up pretty tight. The Afghans and Nigerians were unwilling to risk open warfare with Dawood by supplying Rajan. The only option for him was to go via the Thailand and Malaysia route, which he tried ( note that he is still resident in those parts) and didnt succeed really well for reasons I dont know. But to attribute this to "desh bhakti" is like Pakis saying they won in 48, 65, 71 and Kargil.

Interesting list of gangs. Where does Mr. Gawli fit into this?

BTW, Chotta Rajan supplying information to RAW or whoever is not unique. In this business everyone rats out on everyone. Its not as if Rajan has the hotline to RAW as a contact in his cell phone. The way this bit works is police officers (mostly in Special Branch) have their own network of khabris that keep giving them tips, either as a "favour" or payoff... this network is that officers alone. The sad bit is the network goes away with the police officer... Anyways one gang is always tipping off about the other, thats how a majority of the information gets collated. Not "desh bhakti" again. Incidentally, when the 3 ATS officers were killed (Salaskar et al), the HUGE loss was of this network. Overnight, a significant intelligence source was gone. Salaskar alone would have had at least 1000 informants. Pradeep Sharma had 2000 or so I think...

I agree with you about khabree think

Comming to Desh Bhakti thing I am not the one who gave him this name

Its given to him by a Criminal reporter. He died of Cancer (I dont remember his name but I remember name of his book its "मुंबईतील रक्त गोठवणारि गुनेगारी" )

Suyogv · Post by **Suyogv** » 23 Feb 2009 19:39

AjayKK wrote:
Tanaji wrote:Incidentally, when the 3 ATS officers were killed (Salaskar et al), the HUGE loss was of this network. Overnight, a significant intelligence source was gone. Salaskar alone would have had at least 1000 informants. Pradeep Sharma had 2000 or so I think...
An important point.

IMHo, with the passing over of the Vijay Salaskar--Pradeep Sharma--Praful Bhosale--Pradeep Sawant--Daya nayak--Sachin Vaze and Ravindra Angre --an era in Mumbai police/Crime Branch has ended.

The petty IPs aphsars and politicos have put end to a good network of informers and the police is left chasing political issues like Malegaon and Sadhvi and Purohit.

Tanaji wrote:The way this bit works is police officers (mostly in Special Branch) have their own network of khabris that keep giving them tips, either as a "favour" or payoff... this network is that officers alone.
True. The IPs aphsars give the go-ahead to the cop to maintain info -and-cash links with gangs to get info on their rivals. When the tide turns, the same encounter cop is accused of ''links with underworld''.

Only one with some credibility left is Rakesh Mar ia.

Special Branch (SB-I) Is no longer good enough. Good n/w of Khabries is with Crime branch Officers

I have meet Rakesh Maria he is really great man.

Suyogv · Post by **Suyogv** » 23 Feb 2009 19:53

Rahul M wrote:suyog, I'm told you know a bit about mumbai police. it would be nice to hear any anecdotes you know.

Yes sir I know very much about it!! But problem is sir that I dont know from where to start

Is better that you people start asking me question I'll answer them

Ok Since Special Branch topic is going on I'll tell you some thing about it was established on 14 june 1909 (SB-I) FAMH Vincent was the first Superintendent of Police of the C.I.D., who had joined Imperial Police in 1897.(Actually he was head of CID in todays term hehe) This later become as CID and actual SB became a unite of Police Force.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Feb 2009 00:06

For starters when you are posting serious stuff dont use smileys.

Lets start with history of Special Branch? What is its effectiveness now?

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 24 Feb 2009 09:56

Moved the post

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 16#p624316

.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 24 Feb 2009 10:03

RM sahab, wrong thread, please take this to either of these threads and edit the last post.

Indian Criminal Justice System reform-I

Indian Neta-Judiciary-Babu System

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 24 Feb 2009 14:08

Tanaji wrote:In this business everyone rats out on everyone.

Exactly. Firstly I think in these underworld business stuff like patriotism etc. takes a back seat. Chota Rajan may have tactitly approved of this desh bhakth gang just to get some support from common people around. A relative of mine in the DRI (Dir. of Revenue Intelligence) laughingly said that most of the information they get is through the rivalry of these underworld gangs, hawala racketeers etc.

Suyogv wrote:Special Branch (SB-I) Is no longer good enough. Good n/w of Khabries is with Crime branch Officers

If my understanding is correct the entire encounter specialists of Mumbai Police were from the Crime Branch or its sub-units only. Special Branch generally is for collecting political intelligence and other stuff like monitoring suspected terrorists, organisations etc. Crime Branch on the other hand deals with organised crime. In a city like Mumbai organised crime is more rampant, and so it was Crime Branch men who required a large number of informers to keep them updated.

Suyogv · Post by **Suyogv** » 24 Feb 2009 14:27

Sachin wrote:
Tanaji wrote:In this business everyone rats out on everyone.
Exactly. Firstly I think in these underworld business stuff like patriotism etc. takes a back seat. Chota Rajan may have tactitly approved of this desh bhakth gang just to get some support from common people around. A relative of mine in the DRI (Dir. of Revenue Intelligence) laughingly said that most of the information they get is through the rivalry of these underworld gangs, hawala racketeers etc.

Suyogv wrote:Special Branch (SB-I) Is no longer good enough. Good n/w of Khabries is with Crime branch Officers
If my understanding is correct the entire encounter specialists of Mumbai Police were from the Crime Branch or its sub-units only. Special Branch generally is for collecting political intelligence and other stuff like monitoring suspected terrorists, organisations etc. Crime Branch on the other hand deals with organised crime. In a city like Mumbai organised crime is more rampant, and so it was Crime Branch men who required a large number of informers to keep them updated.

Let me add one thing People say that there is a Encounter squad in Mumbai police. Its wrong there is no official Encounter squad. Most of encounters are done my Crime Brance officers or by Anti-Extortion Cell.

Suyogv · Post by **Suyogv** » 24 Feb 2009 14:54

ramana wrote:For starters when you are posting serious stuff dont use smileys.

Lets start with history of Special Branch? What is its effectiveness now?

Ok I'll tell you about SB-I. During pre-independence era it was one of the best place to work. It was honoured to work in this branch. Officers were use to get more salary and more allowance (to keep n/w of informers) IB was based on SB (Not SB of Mumbai police but in general) Upto 1970s its was great place to work. But its downfall started from mid 70 and it was completely messuped by mid 80s (Currently its improving at extremely low pace) Corruption in promotion and transfer started in mid 70s. Officer who were not in good book og CP were transferred to SB (Because in SB there is no scope to take Bribe) Previously only sharp officers were inducted in SB. So by 70s quality of SB declined. Then few CPs like Arvind Inamdar, Y.C. Pawar, tried to bring SB its lost glory but no use. Other reason for Down fall for SB is that. To make a best team there should be a good rapo between team members. But since SB Officers are frequently transferred they were not able to create there N/W nor there is a synchronization between other branches. In 80s its was so worse that Officers some enquiry were transferred to SB. It was like if you want to harres some one or want to take some Disciplanary action send him to SB!! Today Officers are no longer happy to serve in SB

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 24 Feb 2009 17:05

Suyog, most interesting.

Did you work with Mumbai police at any point, or is your information anecdotal? Im not so aware of Special Branch units of Mumbai, but my direct family has been in the Intelligence Bureau, and their opinion of local police information even in the 1960s was mixed. At times, the information was excellent, and occasionally, one came across lazy SHO's and Circle Officers, unable to provide the goods, and willing to snatch at any straw to avoid doing the work required.

I suppose it is the task of a good intel officer to be able to discern the wheat from the chaff. It is unfortunate to hear that the Special Branch and investigative units are being used as punishment postings, and as a means simply of deprivation of corrupt income.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 24 Feb 2009 17:41

Suyogv wrote:During pre-independence era it was one of the best place to work.

If I am not mistaken during the Pre-Independence era the Intelligence wing was generally refered to as the "Bombay CID". And to speak of their efficiency. When Nathuram Godse, Gopal Godse etc. formed the Hindu Maha Sabha in Pune, their inauguration ceremony and speeches were getting monitored

. A CID man was right there on the first floor of an adjacent building, and he promptly reported of the formation of a hard-line organisation.

ASPaur wrote:I suppose it is the task of a good intel officer to be able to discern the wheat from the chaff.

My feeling is that police intelligence is faulty because it does not have specialists. It is very rarely I have seen policemen who were in the special branch during their entire service period. Police officers are more like "generalists", today he is asked to do law and order duties, and the next day he is put as a Traffic Sub-Inspector else where. And when a promotion comes he may move to a Crime Branch or a Special Branch unit. Yes he would be picking up the experiences for these tasks all through the way, but then he lacks specialisation. I have seen policemen who opt for the special branch kind of work, not because of interest, but the task is more routine and not cumbersome. They also can keep away from the lime light.

How ever I don't think all is lost here. Special Branch for many police forces is the first step to get a deputation to IB. In my town there were some officers who were ruthless in law and order duties (do not hesitate in thrashing a person to pulp) but also good experts in cracking crimes. Their names to use appear daily in news papers etc. Soon they get moved to the Special Branch where they are out of lime light and quitely they get moved to Intelligence Bureau on deputation. After a sojourn of around two years, I have seen them coming back on a higher rank and gets posted to certain sensitive postings (Airport Immigration and security is one of them).

Suyogv · Post by **Suyogv** » 24 Feb 2009 22:06

Sachin wrote:
Suyogv wrote:During pre-independence era it was one of the best place to work.
If I am not mistaken during the Pre-Independence era the Intelligence wing was generally refered to as the "Bombay CID". And to speak of their efficiency. When Nathuram Godse, Gopal Godse etc. formed the Hindu Maha Sabha in Pune, their inauguration ceremony and speeches were getting monitored . A CID man was right there on the first floor of an adjacent building, and he promptly reported of the formation of a hard-line organisation.

ASPaur wrote:I suppose it is the task of a good intel officer to be able to discern the wheat from the chaff.
My feeling is that police intelligence is faulty because it does not have specialists. It is very rarely I have seen policemen who were in the special branch during their entire service period. Police officers are more like "generalists", today he is asked to do law and order duties, and the next day he is put as a Traffic Sub-Inspector else where. And when a promotion comes he may move to a Crime Branch or a Special Branch unit. Yes he would be picking up the experiences for these tasks all through the way, but then he lacks specialisation. I have seen policemen who opt for the special branch kind of work, not because of interest, but the task is more routine and not cumbersome. They also can keep away from the lime light.

How ever I don't think all is lost here. Special Branch for many police forces is the first step to get a deputation to IB. In my town there were some officers who were ruthless in law and order duties (do not hesitate in thrashing a person to pulp) but also good experts in cracking crimes. Their names to use appear daily in news papers etc. Soon they get moved to the Special Branch where they are out of lime light and quitely they get moved to Intelligence Bureau on deputation. After a sojourn of around two years, I have seen them coming back on a higher rank and gets posted to certain sensitive postings (Airport Immigration and security is one of them).

Yes Hemant Karkare is a good example of that. He went to Austria as a RAW officer! Befour it he was ACP after comming back he was given Jt.Cp post (Not completely sure that he skiped Ad.Cp Post) There was a Man who dedicated his carrier for SB but due to curroupt environment SB was not able to take full advantage of his dedication (His name is on my tip of toung I'll let you know about this man in my next post)

Suyogv · Post by **Suyogv** » 24 Feb 2009 22:08

After End of WW-I it was known as Bombay CID

Suyogv · Post by **Suyogv** » 24 Feb 2009 22:29

ASPuar wrote:Suyog, most interesting.

Did you work with Mumbai police at any point, or is your information anecdotal? Im not so aware of Special Branch units of Mumbai, but my direct family has been in the Intelligence Bureau, and their opinion of local police information even in the 1960s was mixed. At times, the information was excellent, and occasionally, one came across lazy SHO's and Circle Officers, unable to provide the goods, and willing to snatch at any straw to avoid doing the work required.

I suppose it is the task of a good intel officer to be able to discern the wheat from the chaff. It is unfortunate to hear that the Special Branch and investigative units are being used as punishment postings, and as a means simply of deprivation of corrupt income.

No I dont work with Mumbai Police. But I'll become IPS and serve Mumbai Police. All of my stories are not anecdotal. But few are anecdotal. I'll specify whic are anecdotal.

Suyogv · Post by **Suyogv** » 24 Feb 2009 22:55

Suyogv wrote: Yes Hemant Karkare is a good example of that. He went to Austria as a RAW officer! Befour it he was ACP after comming back he was given Jt.Cp post (Not completely sure that he skiped Ad.Cp Post) There was a Man who dedicated his carrier for SB but due to curroupt environment SB was not able to take full advantage of his dedication (His name is on my tip of toung I'll let you know about this man in my next post)

I got It!!! His name is Arvind Patvardan he was Dpt.Cp of Mumbai and he dedicated his carrier in revitalising SB. He has authored many books on Police

AjayKK · Post by **AjayKK** » 25 Feb 2009 15:32

Upendra Guladekar was brutall y killed in the recent encounter by naxals at Gadchir oli

Engineer-MBA Upendra always wanted to be a cop

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 067940.cms

AMRAVATI: It wasn’t easy for Dhananjay and Rajani Guladekar to accept the fact that their only son was no longer alive. Like any other parents,
they also harboured a dream that their only son Upendra will lead a successful life. But destiny played a cruel joke and broke their dream.

Police sub-inspector Upendra Guladekar, a bachelor, posted at Gyarpatti police assistance centre, in Gadchiroli district was among the cops killed in Naxal ambush in Markegaon jungle of Dhanora tehsil on Sunday. Upendra was heading a team of 14 cops on an investigation mission when Naxals ambushed the party.

Upendra’s father is a manager with Union Bank of India in Warud and his mother Rajani is a home-maker. The Guladekars have two daughters Deepti, undergoing airhostess training in Nagpur, and Sakshi. A pall of gloom descended on the family as the news of Upendra’s death reached Amravati. Many of Upendra’s friends started gathering at their residence.

Upendra always wanted to join the police force. Perhaps that’s why despite being very good in academics, he preferred to build a career in police. He did his schooling from Dnyanmata English High school and completed engineering from MIT, Pune. After that he did MBA from Symbiosis Institute, Pune.

“He had taken up a job in a private company but he didn’t get any job-satisfaction from it. Hence, he prepared for MPSC and got selected as PSI (in Gadchiroli) in 2006,” said Milind Borode, a close friend of Upendra, in a choked voice.

“Simplicity was the hallmark of Upendra. Yet, he was brilliant and well-natured. But what made him stand out was his helping nature. He was always there to help you, if he could,” Milind said.

“After his posting in Gadchiroli, we often used to talk over mobile. Invariably he would talk about the tragic and pathetic situation prevailing in Gadchiroli. Recently (on January 13) Upendra had come to Amravati. I had met him at that time. I never thought it would be our last meeting,” he said.

The following PDF - 8 MB contains list of all MH officers killed on duty.

http://mahapolice.gov.in/mahapolice/jsp ... sFinal.pdf

Suyogv · Post by **Suyogv** » 25 Feb 2009 16:37

He with another 15 Police Person were brutally killed by naxalists. They were torture to death. There eyes were removed. Ears and Nose cut. They tied two police person to a tree and put a grenades in there pockets. In such cruel manner Police men were killed by Naxalist.

sum · Post by **sum** » 26 Feb 2009 19:58

A BE+MBA joins as a SI?

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 26 Feb 2009 20:33

sum wrote:A BE+MBA joins as a SI?

Don't think so it is some thing strange

. Kerala Police too does have a few MBAs and Engineers in the rank of Sub-Inspectors. Reasons could be many:-
i. A liking towards the police profession
ii. Wish for a good stable job. Some people prefer a government job.
iii. A feeling that even with a BE and MBA good job openings are too tough to find, so better stick on with a government job which is much more stable.

Suyogv · Post by **Suyogv** » 26 Feb 2009 20:43

Sachin wrote:
sum wrote:A BE+MBA joins as a SI?
Don't think so it is some thing strange . Kerala Police too does have a few MBAs and Engineers in the rank of Sub-Inspectors. Reasons could be many:-
i. A liking towards the police profession
ii. Wish for a good stable job. Some people prefer a government job.
iii. A feeling that even with a BE and MBA good job openings are too tough to find, so better stick on with a government job which is much more stable.

HEY I just skiped that!! so educated man will not go for MPSC exam!!! Such scholar man will obviously go for UPSC exam.
Further yes post Graduate people got for IPS ,IAS, IFS and other UPSC exams but not for a state level exam. I think info of his education is wrong.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 27 Feb 2009 00:49

Suyogv wrote:He with another 15 Police Person were brutally killed by naxalists. They were torture to death. There eyes were removed. Ears and Nose cut. They tied two police person to a tree and put a grenades in there pockets. In such cruel manner Police men were killed by Naxalist.

Any eyewitness accounts of above which have been in print?

Suyogv · Post by **Suyogv** » 27 Feb 2009 07:58

Raja Bose wrote:
Suyogv wrote:He with another 15 Police Person were brutally killed by naxalists. They were torture to death. There eyes were removed. Ears and Nose cut. They tied two police person to a tree and put a grenades in there pockets. In such cruel manner Police men were killed by Naxalist.
Any eyewitness accounts of above which have been in print?

Yea there is only one eyewitness. He is a old man from that village. And discreption was published in Maharashtra Times and DNA news paper

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 27 Feb 2009 10:40

Can you provide the dna links? Thanks. This is unprecedented brutality even for those Naxals.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Feb 2009 10:42

Why dont you do some research after he has given the hints?

here is one from naxal Watch:

Blood sprayed on me as Naxals shot Cops

A cop present in the police party that removed the dead bodies to Gadchiroli narrated more horrifying tales. “Many bodies of the cops were mutilated. Some had their eyes pierced, while others had hands or legs chopped. Live grenades were hidden under the bodies,” said he. The cops could notice that and took measures to ensure that the grenades were defused.

More if needed.

Suyogv · Post by **Suyogv** » 27 Feb 2009 14:20

Raja Bose wrote:Can you provide the dna links? Thanks. This is unprecedented brutality even for those Naxals.

here is link for all related news http://news.google.co.in/news?ned=in&nc ... mhP_8r-9tM
This is link of DNA. http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1226980

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 28 Feb 2009 00:23

Thanks. Much appreciated.

Tilak · Post by **Tilak** » 01 Mar 2009 19:19

X-Posted :

Narayanan must devote more time to security issues: Ribeiro
Sat, Feb 28 08:05 AM

New Delhi, Feb 28 (IANS) National Security Adviser M.K. Narayanan must give up some of his responsibilities to devote more time to issues related directly to security, suggests former Punjab Police chief Julio Ribeiro.

Claiming to know Narayanan well, Ribeiro says that he 'bit off more than he could chew' and quotes an unnamed politician from New Delhi as saying that Narayanan spent as many as 250 days abroad in 2008.

Ribeiro's remarks form part of a book, '26/11 Mumbai Attacked' (Roli), a collection of articles and first-hand accounts of the terrorist assault on Mumbai that killed over 170 people during Nov 26-29 last year.

According to Ribeiro, with his involvement in matters such as the India-US nuclear deal and the India-China border dispute, Narayanan 'did not have enough time to devote to internal security issues which were actually his area of expertise...

'It is obvious that he slipped up on this one particular occasion (Mumbai attacks) because he had too much on his plate. He is not young any more and should divert some of his powers and responsibilities to young people who need to be groomed.'

There is also an urgent need to bring about sweeping police reforms in India so that police are able to better face threats from terrorists, says Ribeiro, a former police commissioner of Mumbai.

He says the people of the country, particularly the vocal middle class, should actively start demanding police reforms from the government.

The National Police Commission had in 1981 stressed the need for operational independence to the police forces and the freedom to transfer, punish and reward their men without political intervention.

Sadly, this has not happened, points out Ribeiro.

'Today, we have politicized forces in every city and state of the country,' the respected officer says. 'Sadly, many police officers and policemen owe their allegiance to different politicians and do their bidding rather than look up to their own superiors for guidance.'

Ribeiro says that the imperative need was good police officers at cutting edge positions.

'Nobody suspected of corruption or inability to take decisions or inability to communicate should be allowed to go up the ladder and propelled to a position where he is forced to be considered for the top slots.'

The key aspects of police reforms should be: no interference of politicians in transfers and postings of subordinates as well as in the investigation of crime.

'A professional police force needs good police leaders, men whose integrity and competence are established,' he says. 'Police reforms will start with the selection of good police leaders, and that should be the main demand of the public.'

Ribeiro also says that despite technological surveillance, human intelligence would continue to play a key role in combating both crime and terror.

'Nothing can substitute human intelligence, which is obtained either through informers, men planted in terror cells or from ordinary citizens living in slums and bastis...

'If relations between the people and the police are healthy and based on mutual trust and respect, it is possible to get better human intelligence which could obviate a terror attack.'

Suyogv · Post by **Suyogv** » 04 Mar 2009 11:30

Suyogv wrote:
Suyogv wrote: Yes Hemant Karkare is a good example of that. He went to Austria as a RAW officer! Befour it he was ACP after comming back he was given Jt.Cp post (Not completely sure that he skiped Ad.Cp Post) There was a Man who dedicated his carrier for SB but due to curroupt environment SB was not able to take full advantage of his dedication (His name is on my tip of toung I'll let you know about this man in my next post)
I got It!!! His name is Arvind Patvardan he was Dpt.Cp of Mumbai and he dedicated his carrier in revitalising SB. He has authored many books on Police

Hello People I goof up little bit. Its V.N.Deshmukh who spend its whole carrier to Improve SB. sorry for mistake.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 04 Mar 2009 14:36

Surprised not posted on this thread. Its a bit dated but is relevant since this was THE favourite modus operandi and investigative tool for the police lately

http://www.zeenews.com/nation/2009-02-2 ... 3news.html

Narco Malini sacked. Good riddance I say, it was high time that such quackery was put to an end. Though I fear its a matter of time when some other Narco "xxxxx" comes to take her place

Suyogv · Post by **Suyogv** » 04 Mar 2009 14:45

Tanaji wrote:Surprised not posted on this thread. Its a bit dated but is relevant since this was THE favourite modus operandi and investigative tool for the police lately

http://www.zeenews.com/nation/2009-02-2 ... 3news.html

Narco Malini sacked. Good riddance I say, it was high time that such quackery was put to an end. Though I fear its a matter of time when some other Narco "xxxxx" comes to take her place

No direct relevance with Police

sum · Post by **sum** » 04 Mar 2009 14:45

Was posted in the Internal security thread, IIRC....

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 04 Mar 2009 16:02

Tanaji wrote:Surprised not posted on this thread. Its a bit dated but is relevant since this was THE favourite modus operandi and investigative tool for the police lately

http://www.zeenews.com/nation/2009-02-2 ... 3news.html

Narco Malini sacked. Good riddance I say, it was high time that such quackery was put to an end. Though I fear its a matter of time when some other Narco "xxxxx" comes to take her place

She was sacked becoz of her hera pheri in her birth certificate to get the job but the narco analysis techinque is still valid. It will still be used to crack hardcore criminals and get vital clues to solve the case.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 05 Mar 2009 13:02

Avinash R wrote:It will still be used to crack hardcore criminals and get vital clues to solve the case.

My understanding is that narco-analysis report along does not become evidence to convict an accused. It only becomes corroboratory evidence. Like for example, when some one does a murder, the murder weapon becomes a good evidence. Earlier police used the standard method of thrashing a person until he told where the weapon was. A search would be done, and the weapon found. Now instead of the thrashing, narco-analysis is done to gather more evidence and information. The police would say that the weapon was found on the basis of what the accused told during narco-analysis. Earlier the police would mention that the accused told them about the weapon during the strict interrogation

.