Where are QQ's servers situated? In china? Does QQ have a privacy policy?Liu wrote:To Chinese netizens, QQ is as important as mobiles to people.. the first thing chinese netizens do is to login their QQ ,after they open their PC.
ICQ and MSN in fact is not as good as QQ
the headquarter of QQ company is located in Shenzhen city.Avinash R wrote:Where are QQ's servers situated? In china? Does QQ have a privacy policy?Liu wrote:To Chinese netizens, QQ is as important as mobiles to people.. the first thing chinese netizens do is to login their QQ ,after they open their PC.
ICQ and MSN in fact is not as good as QQ
Is the chat session in plain-text format or can it be encrypted?
China's insatiable demand for commodities we all heard about was nothing but a global crack-up boom, a byproduct of cheap money everywhere. Ironically, right at the height of the boom, many thought $200 oil was in the cards and hyperinflation was just around the corner. It wasn't then and it isn't now.
And with wages being what they are in China, there is no hope that China can fill those real estate vacancies at a profit, if indeed at all. Signs point to a crash in China's GDP (assuming it hasn't already). Alternatively, China will overheat if it attempts to grow at the same pace. Either way, there is more pain for China and the world economy right around the corner.
Interesting comments in response:I've been to China a lot Mish, spent many months at a time there for the last eight years. China is already in a massive overcapacity real estate bubble. They are building three apartments for everyone that is lived in. Most apartments are empty and those that are rented do not come close to paying the interest on the loan.
There are huge department stores with products loaded on the shelves and staff everywhere and no one is shopping! Staff outnumbers customers five to one. It's surreal. They are ready, waiting for a great wave of shopping to come, but no wave is coming.
Eventually this "borrow and build" economy will be a pop heard round the world. China runs on construction, build build build, but there is no reason for that many places and spaces and big mall businesses with no consumers.
There simply were not enough foreign renters with US corporate salaries as they assumed there would be. I'm a hippie artist type, not a corporate executive. And how much rent can you get from a Chinese doctor who earns maybe $20,000 a year?
We would go shopping in these giant shopping center places, full of stuff, wow! Goods had very high prices, but no one buying; there were no bags in "shoppers" hands, and no one was checking out. Store staff standing around outnumbered shoppers.
Year after year there are more places that go down and a new one sprouts up. However, it's all the same. There are no shoppers so there is no way is this a business making money. It reminds me of the "Field of Dreams" concept. "if you build it they will come", except the mythical rich consuming Chinese or foreign shoppers haven't shown up yet, nor do I don't think they'll ever show up.
The Shanghai skyline is like that too. Look at the highrises! There are more square feet of commercial office spaces being built in Shanghai every year than exist in all of the island of Manhattan! A brand new Manhattan sized city business district added to this city each and every year on top of the existing hi-vacant buildings.
China's a year or so behind the Miami condo market.
I don't disagree with the commenter, I've seen the same thing living there from 2003 to 2006, and traveling back this year. Inventory just kept building and building, and you can go to huge department stores that are more packed with goods than warehouses.
On the construction side, the one thing about build,build, build is that there's still a lot to build. I think the comparison to 1880 is apt, or maybe even 1930. There's a lot of overcapacity, but there's also very underdeveloped areas. Either the peasant move to the city and occupy the housing, or the government will develop the rural areas. I don't know what the figures are now, but some overwhelming number of foreigners, maybe as much as 90%, live in Beijing, Shanghai, and Shenzhen. There are a few other "Tier 1" cities, but there are far more "Tier 2" and "Tier 3" that are 10 or more years behind in terms of development.
You can travel less than 1 hour outside of Beijing and see homes with thatch roofs, for instance. The province surrounding Beijing, Hebei, has a three year plan to revitalize the province. They are literally knocking down whole city blocks.The broken window fallacy applies—I'm sure they are misdirecting resources—but I don't know at what rate. They're not knocking down perfectly good windows, but more like upgrading the existing windows. It boosts GDP and its easy for local government to quantify their economic accomplishment.
From a chinese commenter
I am from China and I have been in US for almost 10 years. And I just returned from China. So, I would say I have enough experience on both sides.
First, yes, there is much more serious overbuilt of apartments/malls in China than in America. And in short term (<10years), I am pessimistic about China economy.
Second, unlike US, the infrastructure building is much more efficient in China than in US for two reasons: 1). China indeed needs a lot more highway/railroads/bridges than US does. Hence, these infrastrcuctures will greatly help China economy in the long run. 2). China is far more efficient in building railroads/highways than US. For example, the high-speed train from Shanghai to Beijing takes only 1-2 years to build, which is hard to imagin in US. And it also costs a lot less.
Third, in the long term (>10 years), I am bullish in China. They are moving in the right direction, both economically and politically. True that chinese people still do not enjoy as much democracy as US, but the gap is narrowing. In addition, Chinese people are really, really hardworking. They will happily work for 12 hours a day for 1/5 US salary. They care most about the challenges in the job, rather than salary/benefits/vacation here in US. If you were among them, you would understand what I say and would also be optimistic for the future.
Another comment
….Today, I still have many Expat friends who live there - they tell me about 5,000 employee firms shutting down overnight in recent months. I’ve also heard from my Chinese friends about factories that have burned to the ground recently (not just one or two, but many). The factories go down as a way to get the money out of the country as the insurance companies pay out to the offshore home office.
1.real estate bubble happened in 2005-2007. During the 3 years,the price of real estimate in China doubled. the price of some places such as SHenzhen and SHanghai even tripled.Arya Sumantra wrote:Inside China: A Sculptor's View
Interesting comments in response:I've been to China a lot Mish, spent many months at a time there for the last eight years. China is already in a massive overcapacity real estate bubble. They are building three apartments for everyone that is lived in. Most apartments are empty and those that are rented do not come close to paying the interest on the loan.
There are huge department stores with products loaded on the shelves and staff everywhere and no one is shopping! Staff outnumbers customers five to one. It's surreal. They are ready, waiting for a great wave of shopping to come, but no wave is coming.
Eventually this "borrow and build" economy will be a pop heard round the world. China runs on construction, build build build, but there is no reason for that many places and spaces and big mall businesses with no consumers.
There simply were not enough foreign renters with US corporate salaries as they assumed there would be. I'm a hippie artist type, not a corporate executive. And how much rent can you get from a Chinese doctor who earns maybe $20,000 a year?
We would go shopping in these giant shopping center places, full of stuff, wow! Goods had very high prices, but no one buying; there were no bags in "shoppers" hands, and no one was checking out. Store staff standing around outnumbered shoppers.
Year after year there are more places that go down and a new one sprouts up. However, it's all the same. There are no shoppers so there is no way is this a business making money. It reminds me of the "Field of Dreams" concept. "if you build it they will come", except the mythical rich consuming Chinese or foreign shoppers haven't shown up yet, nor do I don't think they'll ever show up.
The Shanghai skyline is like that too. Look at the highrises! There are more square feet of commercial office spaces being built in Shanghai every year than exist in all of the island of Manhattan! A brand new Manhattan sized city business district added to this city each and every year on top of the existing hi-vacant buildings.
China's a year or so behind the Miami condo market.
I don't disagree with the commenter, I've seen the same thing living there from 2003 to 2006, and traveling back this year. Inventory just kept building and building, and you can go to huge department stores that are more packed with goods than warehouses.
On the construction side, the one thing about build,build, build is that there's still a lot to build. I think the comparison to 1880 is apt, or maybe even 1930. There's a lot of overcapacity, but there's also very underdeveloped areas. Either the peasant move to the city and occupy the housing, or the government will develop the rural areas. I don't know what the figures are now, but some overwhelming number of foreigners, maybe as much as 90%, live in Beijing, Shanghai, and Shenzhen. There are a few other "Tier 1" cities, but there are far more "Tier 2" and "Tier 3" that are 10 or more years behind in terms of development.
You can travel less than 1 hour outside of Beijing and see homes with thatch roofs, for instance. The province surrounding Beijing, Hebei, has a three year plan to revitalize the province. They are literally knocking down whole city blocks.The broken window fallacy applies—I'm sure they are misdirecting resources—but I don't know at what rate. They're not knocking down perfectly good windows, but more like upgrading the existing windows. It boosts GDP and its easy for local government to quantify their economic accomplishment.From a chinese commenter
I am from China and I have been in US for almost 10 years. And I just returned from China. So, I would say I have enough experience on both sides.
First, yes, there is much more serious overbuilt of apartments/malls in China than in America. And in short term (<10years), I am pessimistic about China economy.
Second, unlike US, the infrastructure building is much more efficient in China than in US for two reasons: 1). China indeed needs a lot more highway/railroads/bridges than US does. Hence, these infrastrcuctures will greatly help China economy in the long run. 2). China is far more efficient in building railroads/highways than US. For example, the high-speed train from Shanghai to Beijing takes only 1-2 years to build, which is hard to imagin in US. And it also costs a lot less.
Third, in the long term (>10 years), I am bullish in China. They are moving in the right direction, both economically and politically. True that chinese people still do not enjoy as much democracy as US, but the gap is narrowing. In addition, Chinese people are really, really hardworking. They will happily work for 12 hours a day for 1/5 US salary. They care most about the challenges in the job, rather than salary/benefits/vacation here in US. If you were among them, you would understand what I say and would also be optimistic for the future.Another comment
….Today, I still have many Expat friends who live there - they tell me about 5,000 employee firms shutting down overnight in recent months. I’ve also heard from my Chinese friends about factories that have burned to the ground recently (not just one or two, but many). The factories go down as a way to get the money out of the country as the insurance companies pay out to the offshore home office.
I don't think BR's accessing problem is a result of the great Chinese Firewall. In fact I am living in Japan, I can access BR without any problems in my office but always need a proxy when I was at home.Liu wrote: the headquarter of QQ company is located in Shenzhen city.
So ,I think the server should also is located in Shenzhen.
BTW, now I find amazedly that I can directly surf BR and needn't use proxy any more
me too.wrdos wrote:I don't think BR's accessing problem is a result of the great Chinese Firewall. In fact I am living in Japan, I can access BR without any problems in my office but always need a proxy when I was at home.Liu wrote: the headquarter of QQ company is located in Shenzhen city.
So ,I think the server should also is located in Shenzhen.
BTW, now I find amazedly that I can directly surf BR and needn't use proxy any more
Illusions of grandeur are not the same as visions of greatness.Liu wrote:a vidio in youtube: 100 chinese cities.
CHinese cities indeed seem not bad, I really hope that Chinese inland rual can also catch up with urban area as soon as possible .
[flash]http://www.youtube.com/v/0A8TPU-5ll8&hl=zh_CN&fs=1[/flash]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A8TPU-5ll8&feature=related
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 4951.storyReporting from Beijing -- "Empty," says Jack Rodman, an expert in distressed real estate, as he points from the window of his 40th-floor office toward a silver-skinned prism rising out of the Beijing skyline.
"Beautiful building, but not a single tenant.
"Completely empty.
So goes the refrain as his finger skips from building to building, each flashier than the next, and few of them more than barely occupied.
Beijing went through a building boom before the 2008 Summer Olympics that filled a staid communist capital with angular architectural feats that grace the covers of glossy design magazines.
Now, six months after the Games ended, the city continues to dazzle by night, with neon and floodlights dancing across the skyline. By day, though, it is obvious that many are "see-through" buildings, to use the term coined during the Texas real estate bust of the 1980s.
By Rodman's calculations, 500 million square feet of commercial real estate has been developed in Beijing since 2006, more than all the office space in Manhattan. And that doesn't include huge projects developed by the government. He says 100 million square feet of office space is vacant -- a 14-year supply if it filled up at the same rate as in the best years, 2004 through '06, when about 7 million square feet a year was leased.
"The scale of development was unprecedented anywhere in the world," said Rodman, a Los Angeles native who lives in Beijing, running a firm called Global Distressed Solutions. "It defied logic. It just doesn't make sense."
Construction cranes jut into the skyline, but increasingly they are fixed in place, awaiting fresh financing before work resumes.
Boarded fences advertise coming attractions -- "an iconic landmark" or "international wonderland" -- that are in varying states of half-completion. A retail strip in one development advertised as "La Vibrant shopping street" is empty.
In a country where protests are rare, migrant workers stand in front of several construction projects, voicing their grievances.
"Our boss ran away with the money and he is nowhere to be found," said Li Zirong, a migrant worker from Shaanxi province, who was a supervisor on a stunning building with windows shaped like portholes.
What makes this boom-and-bust cycle different from those in the West is that there is no private ownership of land in China, making local governments de facto partners in the real estate industry, which earn huge fees from leasing and transferring land.
Huang Yasheng, an economist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, traces the blame for the bust to the Chinese Communist Party and its reluctance to allow a true market economy.
"The lack of land reform fed into the real estate bubble and now it's coming back to haunt them," said Huang, author of "Capitalism With Chinese Characteristics," published last year. "There should have been more checks and balances on the ability of the government to acquire land."
The government spent $43 billion for the Olympics, nearly three times as much as any other host city. But many of the venues proved too big, too expensive and more photogenic than practical.
The National Stadium, known as the Bird's Nest, has only one event scheduled for this year: a performance of the opera "Turandot" on Aug. 8, the one-year anniversary of the Olympic opening ceremony. China's leading soccer club backed out of a deal to play there, saying it would be an embarrassment to use a 91,000-seat stadium for games that ordinarily attract only 10,000 spectators.
The venue, which costs $9 million a year to maintain, is expected to be turned into a shopping mall in several years, its owners announced last month.
A baseball stadium that opened last spring with an exhibition game between the Dodgers and the San Diego Padres, is being demolished. Its owner says it also will use the land for a shopping mall.
This is PRC economics thread. Imagine what this thread would become if all start posting images of skyscrapers and bridges and highways etc. I would seriously recommend you to go to skyscrapercity dot com for bragging. BTW does your video show how many of those skyscrapers are empty or what % are occupied?Liu wrote:CHinese cities indeed seem not bad
[flash]http://www.youtube.com/v/0A8TPU-5ll8&hl=zh_CN&fs=1[/flash]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A8TPU-5ll8&feature=related
It is easy to turn farmers to workers when there is boom but returning workers to farmers is not easy when times are bad and they are laid off. The migrant workers from western china will go back to their states but to the eastern farmers will you break down that closed down factories and give them back their land for agriculture?? Urban dwellings have regular costs to be borne. If you cannot sustainably increase the income why increase their expenses? Bottomline is If you cannot provide sustainable long term employment in industry/services don't disturb poor agri-workers out of their low cost of living ecosystem.Liu wrote: I really hope that Chinese inland rual can also catch up with urban area as soon as possible .
well,Just as I posted, it is a hard time for all .Arya Sumantra wrote:It is easy to turn farmers to workers when there is boom but returning workers to farmers is not easy when times are bad and they are laid off. The migrant workers from western china will go back to their states but to the eastern farmers will you break down that closed down factories and give them back their land for agriculture?? Urban dwellings have regular costs to be borne. If you cannot sustainably increase the income why increase their expenses? Bottomline is If you cannot provide sustainable long term employment in industry/services don't disturb poor agri-workers out of their low cost of living ecosystem.Liu wrote: I really hope that Chinese inland rual can also catch up with urban area as soon as possible .
It's a bad message is that the peasants who were robbed their land is more and more richer than your imagination, In the Pearl River Delta area, one family owns several lakhs US dollars property and same size of real estate at least. They are the wealthy class parasitic upon the labor of the masses. As I said at an earlier time, the peasants who owned land works 10 hours per day and 7 days per week in the bloody factories in the robbed land, only get $200 per month.Arya Sumantra wrote: It is easy to turn farmers to workers when there is boom but returning workers to farmers is not easy when times are bad and they are laid off. The migrant workers from western china will go back to their states but to the eastern farmers will you break down that closed down factories and give them back their land for agriculture?? Urban dwellings have regular costs to be borne. If you cannot sustainably increase the income why increase their expenses? Bottomline is If you cannot provide sustainable long term employment in industry/services don't disturb poor agri-workers out of their low cost of living ecosystem.
agree.rundstedt wrote:It's a bad message is that the peasants who were robbed their land is more and more rich than your thinking, In the Pearl River Delta area, one family owns several lakhs US dollars property and same size of real estate at least. They are the wealthy class parasitic upon the labor of the masses. As I sayed at an earlier time, the peasants who owned land works 10 hours per day and 7 days per week in the bloody factory in the same district, only get $200 per month.Arya Sumantra wrote: It is easy to turn farmers to workers when there is boom but returning workers to farmers is not easy when times are bad and they are laid off. The migrant workers from western china will go back to their states but to the eastern farmers will you break down that closed down factories and give them back their land for agriculture?? Urban dwellings have regular costs to be borne. If you cannot sustainably increase the income why increase their expenses? Bottomline is If you cannot provide sustainable long term employment in industry/services don't disturb poor agri-workers out of their low cost of living ecosystem.
So, most of chinese peasants wish their land robbed by CCP.
Just as I said, those "eastern farmers" in CHina now are " "Rentier class",who live on rent .rundstedt wrote:It's a bad message is that the peasants who were robbed their land is more and more richer than your imagination, In the Pearl River Delta area, one family owns several lakhs US dollars property and same size of real estate at least. They are the wealthy class parasitic upon the labor of the masses. As I said at an earlier time, the peasants who owned land works 10 hours per day and 7 days per week in the bloody factories in the robbed land, only get $200 per month.Arya Sumantra wrote: It is easy to turn farmers to workers when there is boom but returning workers to farmers is not easy when times are bad and they are laid off. The migrant workers from western china will go back to their states but to the eastern farmers will you break down that closed down factories and give them back their land for agriculture?? Urban dwellings have regular costs to be borne. If you cannot sustainably increase the income why increase their expenses? Bottomline is If you cannot provide sustainable long term employment in industry/services don't disturb poor agri-workers out of their low cost of living ecosystem.
So, most of chinese peasants wish their land robbed by CCP.
So Messrs Lu, Li and Lau have joined up as running dogs of western imperialism or what? I won't be surprised if chinese nationalists ('non-state actors') will now 'out' their families, their home addresses, their phone and email as well as other details and harass them 24x7 for this barefaced treachery. Like happened to that poor girl who mistakenly intervened in a PRC-Tibetian student protest faceoff on a US campus.“Tax data show much sharper deceleration in income and consumption in the past few months than suggested by official retail sales or income growth figures,” Goldman Sachs analysts Joshua Lu, Caroline Li and Fiona Lau wrote in a note today.
Value-added tax has “de-linked sharply” from retail sales figures, the analysts wrote. VAT rose 1 percent in the fourth quarter from a year earlier, while retail sales gained 21 percent, according to the note....
Growth in China’s individual income-tax receipts “slowed down significantly” in the second half and shrank in December and January, the Goldman Sachs analysts wrote. This compares with nominal wage growth of 21 percent in the third quarter, the report said.
well ,the tax data indeed shows that CHinese economy now is experiencing hard time.vsudhir wrote:Goldman: China Tax Receipts Show Marked Fall in Incomes
The defamation of pristine china's reputation by the hated imperialistic warmongers in the decadent west continues unabated, I notice.
PRC should've bought off the darned Goldman firm when it touched unseen lows recently and then have dictated GS press releases going fwd
So Messrs Lu, Li and Lau have joined up as running dogs of western imperialism or what? I won't be surprised if chinese nationalists ('non-state actors') will now 'out' their families, their home addresses, their phone and email as well as other details and harass them 24x7 for this barefaced treachery. Like happened to that poor girl who mistakenly intervened in a PRC-Tibetian student protest faceoff on a US campus.“Tax data show much sharper deceleration in income and consumption in the past few months than suggested by official retail sales or income growth figures,” Goldman Sachs analysts Joshua Lu, Caroline Li and Fiona Lau wrote in a note today.
Value-added tax has “de-linked sharply” from retail sales figures, the analysts wrote. VAT rose 1 percent in the fourth quarter from a year earlier, while retail sales gained 21 percent, according to the note....
Growth in China’s individual income-tax receipts “slowed down significantly” in the second half and shrank in December and January, the Goldman Sachs analysts wrote. This compares with nominal wage growth of 21 percent in the third quarter, the report said.
Read the wording carefully. The 3 western lackeys seem to suggest that the great people's republic regularly cooks its figures. How terribly shocking and insulting! And what about face, all important face? There will be consequences....
Your fancy is too powerful, and makes me to laugh convulsively.vsudhir wrote:Goldman: China Tax Receipts Show Marked Fall in Incomes
The defamation of pristine china's reputation by the hated imperialistic warmongers in the decadent west continues unabated, I notice.
PRC should've bought off the darned Goldman firm when it touched unseen lows recently and then have dictated GS press releases going fwd
So Messrs Lu, Li and Lau have joined up as running dogs of western imperialism or what? I won't be surprised if chinese nationalists ('non-state actors') will now 'out' their families, their home addresses, their phone and email as well as other details and harass them 24x7 for this barefaced treachery. Like happened to that poor girl who mistakenly intervened in a PRC-Tibetian student protest faceoff on a US campus.
Read the wording carefully. The 3 western lackeys seem to suggest that the great people's republic regularly cooks its figures. How terribly shocking and insulting! And what about face, all important face? There will be consequences....
1. They do not cut individual income-tax off.Liu wrote:
However,you should take two factors into consideration.
1. Tax cuts: Chinese government cut lots of tax to stimulate enterprises investment.
2. January of 2009 has 5 working days less than Janaury of 2008. it distorts the data.
That is what desperate people without any power in their hands do everywhere in the world. Only you find it worth boasting about on BR. Since when did protesting or enabling a change by proactive participation become = boastingrundstedt wrote:The Chinese people accommodate themself to the situation, they do not boast.
Arya Sumantra wrote:That is what desperate people without any power in their hands do everywhere in the world. Only you find it worth boasting about on BR. Since when did protesting or enabling a change by proactive participation become = boasting
In China, they always tell you what they have done or finished. If you say China will overtake United States by 2050 in a chinese forum, you'll be cursing up hill and down dale. This is the difference between a pragmatic realist and a boaster.vina wrote:rundsedt, did you actually mean complain and not boast ? if I read what you wrote in context, I would think that there was something lost when you wrote it in English .
Are you mixing up right to protest and proactive citizen participation in politics with delays in executing large projects? Do you know the difference? A chinese intern i trained told me of a case where a guy in china was asked to pay an 8 metre long hospital bill which mostly included expenses of other patients. He had no choice but to pay. How would his protest have delayed any large project. There is no doubt you can be fast because god save the protestor. We are NOT boasters because when we fail to achieve we are heavily criticized by our own media and people. Have seen the difference in self-criticism between our media and your sycophant media. We accept our shortcomings and know where we stand. We take an almost infinite humiliation for our mistakes. What about you? Talk about "boasting" huh.rundstedt wrote:Arya Sumantra wrote:That is what desperate people without any power in their hands do everywhere in the world. Only you find it worth boasting about on BR. Since when did protesting or enabling a change by proactive participation become = boastingIn China, they always tell you what they have done or finished. If you say China will overtake United States by 2050 in a chinese forum, you'll be cursing up hill and down dale. This is the difference between a pragmatic realist and a boaster.vina wrote:rundsedt, did you actually mean complain and not boast ? if I read what you wrote in context, I would think that there was something lost when you wrote it in English .
Wow, you have a mistake that the guy never paid the bill, the health bureau would deal with his complaint, the media would report the suspiciously odd occurrence. Chinese govt. is more effective than you think.Arya Sumantra wrote: Are you mixing up right to protest and proactive citizen participation in politics with delays in executing large projects? Do you know the difference? A chinese intern i trained told me of a case where a guy in china was asked to pay an 8 metre long hospital bill which mostly included expenses of other patients. He had no choice but to pay. How would his protest have delayed any large project. There is no doubt you can be fast because god save the protestor. We are NOT boasters because when we fail to achieve we are heavily criticized by our own media and people. Have seen the difference in self-criticism between our media and your sycophant media. We accept our shortcomings and know where we stand. We take an almost infinite humiliation for our mistakes. What about you? Talk about "boasting" huh.
Ever heard of "occupancy rate". All that concrete & steel that China dutifully put out is mostly gathering moss & rust.rundstedt wrote:
Another mistake is that the skyscrapers in China are propaganda. It's just a self-cheating, oh, boasters need self-cheating. Indians overestimate the chinese govt. faculty. Did you calculate the amount of skyscrapers and their value? Did you read report of fiscal expenditure? As I know, 95% of the skyscrapers are built in commercial interests, the aim is making money, not propaganda. A good message is that China have a propaganda city indeed, it is Beijing. Big state-owned enterprise headquarters, central government agencies gather together in the capital, half of the skyscrapers was built by administrative order, the money was gathered from whole country. But the others city gather money from nowhere, skyline of Shanghai in 1992 was same as WWII, the city had been exploited for a half century to support poor area construction, if a man from Shanghai was walking in the street of Beijing, he would point to a skyscraper, told his companion, "look! this is our blood."
I find the data that vacancy area in 2007 was 123 million square meters, in 2008 it rose to 200 million square meters suddenly and sharply. and there are 10.435 billion square meters of floor space of urban residential buildings. so the "occupancy rate" is 98.1%, it's a pretty good figure, did not?derkonig wrote: Ever heard of "occupancy rate". All that concrete & steel that China dutifully put out is mostly gathering moss & rust.
PRC real estate boom was just a bubble, with no fundamental strengths. Those rows of skyscrapers are no good unless you actually get people & business to move into them. Ever wonder, why does PRC have such little crediblity worldwide?
Its your own mindless actions, deulsions of grandeur & of course cheating/lying/dishonesty at the drop of a hat. That is all PRC has ever done.
GDP & actual public consumption are two very different games. PRC may be able to produce a lot, but does it have any capability to consume what it produces? Also given the several crisis that PRC is undergoing, be it the global meltdown or its drought, social unrest & impending rebellion by the masses, PRC may have just created the perfect storm for itself.
All that 'Chinese blood & toil' may ultimately count for nothing.
Are these numbers just for Beijing ? The reason I ask is a quick check with some rough calculations yield intriguing results.I find the data that vacancy area in 2007 was 123 million square meters, in 2008 it rose to 200 million square meters suddenly and sharply. and there are 10.435 billion square meters of floor space of urban residential buildings. so the "occupancy rate" is 98.1%, it's a pretty good figure, did not?
I have not even factored in the family size of 3 which is the standard for China.I never said the word of Beijing, the data are whole urban china.Bade wrote:Are these numbers just for Beijing ? The reason I ask is a quick check with some rough calculations yield intriguing results.I find the data that vacancy area in 2007 was 123 million square meters, in 2008 it rose to 200 million square meters suddenly and sharply. and there are 10.435 billion square meters of floor space of urban residential buildings. so the "occupancy rate" is 98.1%, it's a pretty good figure, did not?
Assuming on average a person needs ~ 1000sqft of living space ( or 100 sq meters per person), that means with 10 billion sq meters of residential space implies roughly 100 million residential units. So does 100 million people live in Beijing ?
, but thatz another story) are all vacant with nobody ready to occupy them. This is despite your alleged govt. trying out all kinds of stimuli. Last heard your regime had ordered poor farmers to buy consumer electronics like TVs, etc. to reduce the drop in sales. At this rate, one shudn't be surprised if the commie regime in your glorious workers paradise orders the rice growing (& now destitute due to the drought) peasants from the yellow delta to start buying up flats in downtown Shanghai.this is so called low-browed indian? he did not offer any figures and did deceive or create a false impression?derkonig wrote:There you go again. Is it so difficult to understand that wen u look at the occupancy rates of buildings, u only consider those built in say the last 2 years or some such short period of time. You do not consider all the alleged urban space in China. More importantly where did this figure of 10.xx billion come up from, pulled it out of your Mush..errm Jiabao? Did you also include the whole landmasses of Siberia, Japan & Independent Taiwan, apart from the overflowing slums & gulags in China in that 10.xx billion figure?
Rather than asking others to get an education, dear rundistate, its you who is in dire need of one, so try to get one.
I hope you realize that taking the grand average of all urban areas in a large country will not give you a correct picture on the occupancy rates of any given city in the country.I never said the word of Beijing, the data are whole urban china.
I spoke the truth, what is so low brow about that, but then again what wud the commie Chinese or wannabe Chinese, know about truth except of the kind that Xinhua turns out. The truth is that the chinese real estate is on an increasingly shakier ground.rundstedt wrote:this is so called low-browed indian? he did not offer any figures and did deceive or create a false impression?derkonig wrote:There you go again. Is it so difficult to understand that wen u look at the occupancy rates of buildings, u only consider those built in say the last 2 years or some such short period of time. You do not consider all the alleged urban space in China. More importantly where did this figure of 10.xx billion come up from, pulled it out of your Mush..errm Jiabao? Did you also include the whole landmasses of Siberia, Japan & Independent Taiwan, apart from the overflowing slums & gulags in China in that 10.xx billion figure?
Rather than asking others to get an education, dear rundistate, its you who is in dire need of one, so try to get one.
What you should have said, to be respectful to the concerns of our esteemed guests should be...chinese real estate is on an increasingly shakier ground.
or, more accurately,chinese virtual estate is on increasingly firmer ground
chinese surreal estate is on increasingly firmer ground