Indian Missile Technology Discussion

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
Vikram_S
BRFite
Posts: 359
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 23:49

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Vikram_S » 09 Mar 2009 02:35

what prevented army from saying best of 3 test? no, they waited till 2nd test was success (which they did not expect, to make a 3rd test appear)

if they do this to foreign OEM, they will get laughed at face, but they are too afraid to make it appear they are not "worldclass" to goras so they would not do this but plan before hand, but this is DRDO, local DRDO, you, me, local Indians so who cares

fact is army brass wants to treat drdo ppl downward and has got used to it and cannot act with grace

see how IA is doing ass covering, by not admittign 2 test was success

i wonder if ppl has spoken to junior level (colonels and belbpw) IA officer and MOD official about how they feel local item is being treated (for example ARJUN)

OT- It is unfortunate that DRDO trials fail during 'high profile' tests when Brass are present, be it Arjun and now Brahmos! Sheer luck! (or lack of it)


Bulls&it my freind
Ask ARMY about how many T-90 trials succeed in front of brass and what is reported

Last time I spoke about desi all America bhakt attacked me now I wonder if I tell reality how many Army bhakt will attack me so I left BR

Now I wonder!!! it is like Gandhiji said, angrez left india but angreziyat has not, same way a lot of ppl in services still look abroad for gora color and confirm everything is good. it is passed off as tradition but reality is otherwise.
Last edited by Vikram_S on 09 Mar 2009 02:40, edited 1 time in total.

Surya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5034
Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Surya » 09 Mar 2009 02:39

sunil

I have no problem if the army wants 10 tests.

If that was the criteria they laid out before AND if they are paying for it.

And if the criteria was a bulls eye hit everytime not just within CEP.

And then like the damn T 90 tests I want to see which other missile performed to those criteria.

Vikram_S - hang in there - lets see what the "army is a holy cow" have to throw at this time

Vikram_S
BRFite
Posts: 359
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 23:49

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Vikram_S » 09 Mar 2009 02:41

ramana wrote:I think the IA is not ready to accept anything local unless its useless stuff. They did this with Arjun and now with the Block II.


I dont know if the IA guy leaking the resentment has any technical brains or not but demanding an S manouver while getting a small target in a clutter environmnet at short range (~ 50km) is ridiculous as the high speed vehicle has to do many short duration divert pulses to get to the target to avoid the need for large turn radius moves.

In aerospace parlance he is technical ****ya. Must have got there by seniority and not by brains.


And ppl have thought/ wonder why talented ppl leave defence and defence R&D and go to foreign OEM.

Fact is if you work in foreign OEM, Army will lick you and treat you totally new, but if you are working in india, they will look at you below

Even RayC on this forum was defending dirty talk on DRDO saying it is understandable
This is mentality, even most senior of ppl think it is ok to treat only pro Army AGENCY of Govt that is DRDO (rest of public does not care) LIKE dog
Last edited by Vikram_S on 09 Mar 2009 02:44, edited 1 time in total.

sunilUpa
BRFite
Posts: 1795
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 04:16

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby sunilUpa » 09 Mar 2009 02:42

Vikram_S wrote:what prevented army from saying best of 2 of 3 test?

fact is army brass wants to treat drdo ppl downward and has got used to it and cannot act with grace

see how IA is doing ass covering, by not admittign 2 test was success

i wonder if ppl has spoken to junior level (colonels and belbpw) IA officer and MOD official about how they feel local item is being treated (for example ARJUN)

[b]
OT- It is unfortunate that DRDO trials fail during 'high profile' tests when Brass are present, be it Arjun and now Brahmos! Sheer luck! (or lack of it)[/b/]

Bulls&it my freind
Ask ARMY about how many T-90 trials succeed in front of brass and what is reported

Last time I spoke about desi all America bhakt attacked me now I wonder if I tell reality how many Army bhakt will attack me so I left BR

Now I wonder!!!


:shock: :shock: I am commenting on what is reported in the media, the current 'outrage' is on what is reported in media, now based on some ones interaction with DRDO/Army etc.

No one will ever consider based on two tests - one fail and one pass.

For that matter DRDO didn't admit that it's first test was a failure, till it came out in press - Rajat (not sure). Mud slinging is not my aim, but to understand what does Army expect Brahmos do, and why.

Rest of your post, I will pass, I don't know what you posted. All I am doing is giving perspective.

PratikDas
BRFite
Posts: 1927
Joined: 06 Feb 2009 07:46
Contact:

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 09 Mar 2009 02:44

sunilUpa wrote:....
Ok let me ask, if one test is a failure and another is a success, is the system considered qualified? In any type of business, let alone in military.
...

Nice try Sunil but your logic is misleading and apologetic. No one is asking for the entire Brahmos Mk II system to be declared qualified. People are asking for one test to be declared a success. It does not take so many days for this analysis and the Indian Army have got to be taught that their money comes from a tap that can be turned off too.
Last edited by PratikDas on 09 Mar 2009 02:48, edited 1 time in total.

sunilUpa
BRFite
Posts: 1795
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 04:16

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby sunilUpa » 09 Mar 2009 02:47

Surya wrote:sunil

I have no problem if the army wants 10 tests.

If that was the criteria they laid out before AND if they are paying for it.

And if the criteria was a bulls eye hit everytime not just within CEP.

And then like the damn T 90 tests I want to see which other missile performed to those criteria.

Vikram_S - hang in there - lets see what the "army is a holy cow" have to throw at this time


Surya Ji,

I am trying to understand what is role assigned by Army to Brahmos which necessitated MKII version. If we understand that we can more or less understand what are the minimum requirements Brahmos need to meet.

The 'S' maneuver is BS, that is DDM interpretation.

Vikram_S
BRFite
Posts: 359
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 23:49

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Vikram_S » 09 Mar 2009 02:55

Surya wrote:Vikram_S - hang in there - lets see what the "army is a holy cow" have to throw at this time


Surya
Yes there are things you cannot mention on the forum - [Deleted] i was so disgusted about whole thing so i did not even come to this forum for 2 months and now actually i was surprised my login was there, surprise i guess

what is making me p ssed off about this army behavious is how they are behaving towards ordinary indian companies who did patriotic thing and joined high risk program. drdo anyway, will get treated second class by army, as if they do not matter, what about tata, larsen and other companies

army attitude is shameful

sunilUPA wrote:I am trying to understand what is role assigned by Army to Brahmos which necessitated MKII version. If we understand that we can more or less understand what are the minimum requirements Brahmos need to meet.The 'S' maneuver is BS, that is DDM interpretation.


why are you fooling yourself? there are many report about what brahmos2 means, make designation amongst equal RCS structures, so it did it, but look at army attitude, it cannot even admit, it was met

instead, now they say 3rd test, so shameful
if it was russia or french gora, army people would have run forward and admitted 2nd test was success.
it is nothing but sad.
Last edited by Jagan on 10 Mar 2009 05:29, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Flame bait deleted

sunilUpa
BRFite
Posts: 1795
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 04:16

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby sunilUpa » 09 Mar 2009 02:55

pratik_das_oz wrote:
sunilUpa wrote:....
Ok let me ask, if one test is a failure and another is a success, is the system considered qualified? In any type of business, let alone in military.
...

Nice try Sunil but your logic is misleading and apologetic. No one is asking for the entire Brahmos Mk II system to be declared qualified. People are asking for one test to be declared a success. It does not take so many days for this analysis and the Indian Army have got to be taught that their money comes from a tap that can be turned off too.

"One test has failed while the other appears to have been successful. We would like to wait for the results of the third test now," Army sources pointed out. "Considering the cost of the missile, we would like to be completely sure about the accuracy of this new version before its induction," the sources added.

Surya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5034
Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Surya » 09 Mar 2009 02:58

well I did not see the army say after the first test - oh it is going to be part of X number of tests???

I agree - 1 test may not be enough - but I want to know up front what the criteria was, how many tests and who is bearing the cost.

sunil

no need for the ji :)

I would think the Army knew what it wanted the Mk 2 for, since it agreed for the tests and probably prepared the scenario\environment. If not then god save us.

Vikram_S
BRFite
Posts: 359
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 23:49

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Vikram_S » 09 Mar 2009 02:58

"appears to have been"

what a wonderful admission by army!!

takes too much guts i guess to say, was successful

because then media will suddely realise about farce tests of arjun and everything army asks - and wherever similar cover you ass language as used

"appears to have been"

nice, so after 3 day army cannot even admit second test was succesful

this shit treatment of local ppl by army seniors is so shameful
Last edited by Vikram_S on 09 Mar 2009 03:00, edited 1 time in total.

sunilUpa
BRFite
Posts: 1795
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 04:16

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby sunilUpa » 09 Mar 2009 02:59

Vikram_S wrote:
why are you fooling yourself? there are many report about what brahmos2 means, make designation amongst equal RCS structures, so it did it, but look at army attitude, it cannot even admit, it was met

instead, now they say 3rd test, so shameful
if it was russia or french gora, army people would have run forward and admitted 2nd test was success.
it is nothing but sad.


Thank you Vikram, you are the genius, I am the fool. Kindly put me on your ignore list and refrain from replying to a fool's posts.

Yes, Brahmos 2 needs to have discriminatory capability. Why?

Anabhaya
BRFite
Posts: 271
Joined: 20 Sep 2005 12:36

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Anabhaya » 09 Mar 2009 03:03

Hit the bulls eye every time


Must say if the guy who said that is really IA then I'm beginning to lose confidence in the institution. IA has been coming under a lot of flak for a while now, and the way it has been conducting PR is absolute nonsense.

If all thay can do is hide behind the veil of 'sources'..... :rotfl:

All that we ask is if you're saying something do it openly. Up-front. Even the Sri Lankan army has far better PR than IA.

Why does IA have to hide behind something *every other time* ?

T-90 versus the Arjun. They had to hide behind the 'future MBT'. Avoid the comparitive trials did they!

Sorry IA - you're just not upto your standards!
Last edited by Anabhaya on 09 Mar 2009 03:09, edited 2 times in total.

PratikDas
BRFite
Posts: 1927
Joined: 06 Feb 2009 07:46
Contact:

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 09 Mar 2009 03:04

sunilUpa wrote:
pratik_das_oz wrote:Nice try Sunil but your logic is misleading and apologetic. No one is asking for the entire Brahmos Mk II system to be declared qualified. People are asking for one test to be declared a success. It does not take so many days for this analysis and the Indian Army have got to be taught that their money comes from a tap that can be turned off too.

"One test has failed while the other appears to have been successful. We would like to wait for the results of the third test now," Army sources pointed out. "Considering the cost of the missile, we would like to be completely sure about the accuracy of this new version before its induction," the sources added.

Oh, so the army is saying that the hole in the ground where there used to be a target marker is a genuine hole so the test "appears to have been successful"? And it took days to verify the hole is a hole?

Vikram_S
BRFite
Posts: 359
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 23:49

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Vikram_S » 09 Mar 2009 03:09

sunilUpa wrote:Thank you Vikram, you are the genius, I am the fool. Kindly put me on your ignore list and refrain from replying to a fool's posts.


Why? so you tell ramana that statement was not necessary but dont want to hear reply!

somehow you remind me of certain prasun sengupta another chap who says stuff but keeps telling people do not reply to me!!

let me guess another good at heart person, without awareness of current procurement procedure and how it is affecting current ppl who are working for india and why us india ppl are so angry at this thing

are you aware dear person how shitty current behaviour is for ppl who are working on brahmos for india?

and how it compares to treatment for t-90?

Yes, Brahmos 2 needs to have discriminatory capability. Why?


dont you know? if you dont, from public sources, why are you asking person on internet?

simple point for your word games

if army treated local like it treats goras

- it would have told first itself total number of tests
- it would have addmitted what is specified aim of tests
- it would have admitted openly second test was success

instead of playing word game

f.e. go ask air force about mirage tests

this is shameful behavor from army

then talk

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54825
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby ramana » 09 Mar 2009 03:12

The Block II (its not Mark 2) adds precsion strike to the Brahmos by augmenting the INS with GPS and a electro-optical device to give video playback. The software allows target discrimination from clutter without hdw modifications. IOW it adds precison strike capability which the Army was clamoring for all these years. They now have their now flying artillery. maybe sources are afraid they will have to work.

All this means is the people in IA in decision making authority are not ready for prime time. too bad gen Sunderji is no more. Maybe they sould stick to parade grounds and joint exercises.


Vikram_S cut it out. Thanks.
Last edited by ramana on 09 Mar 2009 08:00, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Highlighted my comment

Vikram_S
BRFite
Posts: 359
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 23:49

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Vikram_S » 09 Mar 2009 03:20

Ramana

You are mistaken - where is this evidence of Electrooptical device? All this is, is discrimination using indian expertise which is signal processing software.

In fact: All that would be required is Army to say openly, second test was success, but 10,000 crore order so we need more tests, we want this

And it would still be ok!

But attitude is so bad, the desire to appear superior and never admit anything is so much that they will treat BRAHMOS/DRDO team like ....

So they will say "appear to be success" ..not "it was successful" and push for 3rd test, there is no attempt to even treat ppl who is working for them as good people or their equal.

this is the sad horrible behavior from army,

if this was foreign OEM, at time of test specification itself, it would be said, 3 tests, 2/3 required to be successful. instead, it is local tests, so requirement is changed on the way, everything is changed on the way and most importantly, humiliation for local development team via comments to media
Last edited by Vikram_S on 09 Mar 2009 03:23, edited 1 time in total.

sunilUpa
BRFite
Posts: 1795
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 04:16

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby sunilUpa » 09 Mar 2009 03:23

ramana wrote:The Block II (its not Mark 2) adds precsion strike to the Brahmos by augmenting the INS with GPS and a electro-optical device to give video playback. The software allows target discrimination from clutter without hdw modifications. IOW it adds precison strike capability which the Army was clamoring for all these years. They now have their now flying artillery. maybe sources are afraid they will have to work.

All this means is the people in IA in decision making authority are not ready for prime time. too bad gen Sunderji is no more. Maybe they sould stick to parade grounds and joint exercises.


Vikram_S cut it out. Thanks.


Raman Ji,

As I understand, the only role which justifies kind of discriminatory capability required out of Mk2 is to take out Enemy C&C, intelligence set up etc, especially which may be hidden in populated areas or in mountainous areas etc.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54825
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby ramana » 09 Mar 2009 05:45

Vikram_S, the el-op is described in numerous DRDO Techfocus and newletters. its for feedback they said.

Sunil you are correct. This Block II(not Mark 2) keeps the threshold high with its precision.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54825
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby ramana » 09 Mar 2009 06:38

Arun_S wrote:The following two articles were printed in latest Indian Defense Review magazine (Lancer Publishaers), these articles are currently hosted by India Research Foundation as PDF file.

Shourya / Sagarika Missile

and

Way To A Credible Nuclear Deterrent



Very good articles Arun. Hope they find a large readership. Do the webmasters have a hit counter at the site?

Virupaksha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 3110
Joined: 28 Jun 2007 06:36

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Virupaksha » 09 Mar 2009 06:56

ramana wrote:
Arun_S wrote:The following two articles were printed in latest Indian Defense Review magazine (Lancer Publishaers), these articles are currently hosted by India Research Foundation as PDF file.

Shourya / Sagarika Missile

and

Way To A Credible Nuclear Deterrent



Very good articles Arun. Hope they find a large readership. Do the webmasters have a hit counter at the site?


Looks like BR has already crashed their site, giving bandwidth exceeded :mrgreen: :rotfl:

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Austin » 09 Mar 2009 07:12

I think its fair for the IA to do a couple of more test for Brahmos Block2 , irespective if the 2nd test was Bulls Eye or CEP onleee.

What ever tests are done , the DRDO must be informing the IA prior to test , that the Brahmos blk 2 will be performing a hit at x kilometer on b target( amongst a to l clusters ) and performing z manouvere during its flight , these are all pre-planned test , and its not that Brahmos corp just wakes the Army top brass from its bunker and then just conducts the test out of the blue.

So even if Brahmos hits a Bulls Eye at x Km on b target , but fails to perform z manouvere during its flight then its fair for the army to ask of Brahmos why didnt the z manouver happen.

No one here is privy to the test or its content , so we have to wait and let something come out in days ahead and its only the first of series of test for block 2 , because what block 2 claims to do is really exotic and if its a algorithim breakthrough or MMW seeker ( or a combination of both ) its really exotic and really first of its kind in the world, you cant expect IA to give an approval or cancel for 10000 cr order based on just one sucess or one failure

The sucess or failure of brahmos test should not be attributed to DRDO only , there must be many Russian scientist and institution which must be involved ( remember its a co-development ) , let us not forget or belittle or fail to critisize the Russians out here , they are equally responsible if not more for what ever happens with Brahmos.

Dileep
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5855
Joined: 04 Apr 2005 08:17
Location: Dera Mahab Ali धरा महाबलिस्याः درا مهاب الي

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Dileep » 09 Mar 2009 07:56

Ramana, I would venture that the E/O module is for feedback only.

Maybe to show the brass and shut them up.

rohitvats
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7734
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Location: Jatland

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 09 Mar 2009 10:04

ramana:

BTW, I know IA folks will get mad at me but the nation was short changed in 1965 and even in 1971 on the Western front. Common aam janata gave their gold and savings to buy arms and what did that fool niranajn Prasad do? Panikced and lost his battle dairy to tthe pakis. And this great man was the one who reduced the Red Eagle division(the glorious 4th which even Rommel appreciated) to a rout in 1962 and got away with divisonal command in 1965. Who was his godfather? He panics at the gates of Lahore. What about Khambatta in 1971. Another non performer.

Operation Parakram got botched thanks to their long delay in mobilization from rest stations. And at Kalchak what the hell they were thinking by allowing terrorists to massacre Army families? cant they even stand sentry at time of Operational ready state of their own camp?


Ramana, that post is in really bad taste. I’m not going to try and rebut what you wrote or give an explanation, but it is really unwarranted. More is expected from someone like you.

I’m no missile man or a techie to comment on the nuances of the missile technology but what I do know is any one trying to induct a weapon as complex and something as novel (at least in Indian context) as Brahmos-Block II will want to be doubly sure about the weapon system. There is 10,000 crores riding on this single system and from the looks of the capability of Block-II, it sure is going to play an extremely critical role in the overall planning for any conflict. This is the same Army which has inducted and operationalized the Block-I version of this missile so lets not indulge in name calling unless we know allthe facts.

Does any one for sure know that IA initially said that only one test is all they required to validate and test the system and approve for induction? Well lets wait and see how things progress. One thing is for sure, there is no other system that remotely matches what Brahmos-Block II offers in terms of capability. So the IA can’t just shop around or pick up a glitzy brochure and says we need to buy this.

neerajb
BRFite
Posts: 831
Joined: 24 Jun 2008 14:18
Location: Delhi, India.

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby neerajb » 09 Mar 2009 10:20

SaiK wrote:
neerajb wrote:One will surely not like the missile to miss it's target in fog, smoke, rain, clouds, storms etc which could be present around the target. High frequency radiations (i.e. IR, MMW or Laser) are very susceptilble to atmospheric attenuation. RF seeker ensures all weather capability.

Cheers....


then explain why Astra uses laser proximity sensing for terminal guidance?.. I was trying to think on the same lines for brahmos.

wonder what would be the attenuation issues say for the final 50-100 meters or less?

of course i am not considering the cost aspect for a S2S missile using A2A technology.


When we are talking about Brahmos's terminal seeker, we are talking about a seeker range somewhere in 30-40 Km range. During terminal maneuvering, Brahmos is travelling at little less than 1 Km/second (Mach 2.8 ) and the reaction time of the seeker needs around 30-40 seconds to acquire, identify and make the missile home in on to the target. Most EO methods are ineffective at such ranges and weather can further degrade their ability.

Laser proximity fuses are ultra short range devices (range of a few hundred feet) and the comparision is irrelevant.

Cheers....

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Austin » 09 Mar 2009 10:22

Dileep wrote:I would venture that the E/O module is for feedback only.


Emm yes , unless DRDO has developed an add on hand component for the operator which can give milisec control over sensitive joy stick

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23662
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby chetak » 09 Mar 2009 10:50

sunilUpa wrote:
ramana wrote:The Block II (its not Mark 2) adds precsion strike to the Brahmos by augmenting the INS with GPS and a electro-optical device to give video playback. The software allows target discrimination from clutter without hdw modifications. IOW it adds precison strike capability which the Army was clamoring for all these years. They now have their now flying artillery. maybe sources are afraid they will have to work.

All this means is the people in IA in decision making authority are not ready for prime time. too bad gen Sunderji is no more. Maybe they sould stick to parade grounds and joint exercises.


Vikram_S cut it out. Thanks.



Raman Ji,

As I understand, the only role which justifies kind of discriminatory capability required out of Mk2 is to take out Enemy C&C, intelligence set up etc, especially which may be hidden in populated areas or in mountainous areas etc.


FWIW

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thr ... rshift=yes

Re Brahmos
However, it is common knowlege that a DSMAC-like system with image-matching, etc. is under development. As it is India has realtime high-resolution image mapping of Asia, and ISRO the biggest commercial seller of 1m resolution images in the world.

Dileep
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5855
Joined: 04 Apr 2005 08:17
Location: Dera Mahab Ali धरा महाबलिस्याः درا مهاب الي

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Dileep » 09 Mar 2009 12:19

and ISRO the biggest commercial seller of 1m resolution images in the world

Source? I thought DigitalGlobe was.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23662
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby chetak » 09 Mar 2009 12:38

Dileep wrote:
and ISRO the biggest commercial seller of 1m resolution images in the world

Source? I thought DigitalGlobe was.


Quoted from the post onlee

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thr ... rshift=yes

Baljeet
BRFite
Posts: 410
Joined: 29 May 2007 04:16

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Baljeet » 10 Mar 2009 01:24

It is a sad thing to say, EDITED
Last edited by Jagan on 10 Mar 2009 05:16, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Posted Edited - User Warned

Gaur
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2009
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 23:19

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Gaur » 10 Mar 2009 03:37

Baljeet wrote:It is a sad thing to say, sometime I do hope there should be another Kargil. This time IA will get their A$$ handed to them. IA and this nation needs to be humiliated again.

Why just a Kargil? Surely that won't be much fun. I doubt it would kill enough brave soldiers to satisfy you. Why not have a full fledged war instead? Hopefully, the first paki bomber would miss the target ( like that would be the first ) and bomb your home instead.
Baljeet wrote:This time IA will get their A$$ handed to them. IA and this nation needs to be humiliated again.

A paki's wet dream. And yours too, by the looks of it. And why would IA get their "ass handed to them"? We have whipped them on every encounter ( no matter the odds ) but I guess you are right. No doubt they would have acquired an alien death ray by now.
While I am myself frustrated at IA for delaying BRAHMOS evaluation, these kind of statements are pathetic. I am neither in DRDO nor in the services. But as an Indian I am proud of both the institutions. Yet, I recognize that the are not perfect. While it is easy to blame the services for everything, it is naive to think that DRDO is " dudh ki dhuli ". Similarly, the services are also at fault at many places. But sadly, I see much fanboyism where people badmouth only one organization while turning a blind eye towards the others fault. And sadly, this fanboyism is prevailing from BR posts to general public all the way to the media.

Surya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5034
Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Surya » 10 Mar 2009 04:29

sigh - baljeet - we don't need help from such insane arguments -


a

Dileep
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5855
Joined: 04 Apr 2005 08:17
Location: Dera Mahab Ali धरा महाबलिस्याः درا مهاب الي

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Dileep » 10 Mar 2009 10:32

I have a theory. Maybe the army is trying to motivate the suppliers to perform.

Like the motivation for marines: "You filthy maggott!!, you are upto no good!"

AmitR
BRFite
Posts: 322
Joined: 25 Jan 2009 17:13

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby AmitR » 10 Mar 2009 11:25

Dileep wrote:I have a theory. Maybe the army is trying to motivate the suppliers to perform.

Like the motivation for marines: "You filthy maggott!!, you are upto no good!"


:rotfl: reminds me of Full Metal Jacket

Baljeet
BRFite
Posts: 410
Joined: 29 May 2007 04:16

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Baljeet » 11 Mar 2009 21:58

Surya wrote:sigh - baljeet - we don't need help from such insane arguments -


a

Surya
In a chaotic situation like current, insanity seems to be the only saviour. Our own military is sabotaging the development of desi products. They have no problem crossing Indo-pak border in Trash 90, that can't work in 40degree celcius heat but arjun is not acceptable even though it has proven to be effective. Brahmos has performed upto mark with one failure but IA has to analyze data till Indira Gandhi is reincarnated. It seems to me all these officers are doing is putting road blocks to modernization every step of the way.

rkhanna
BRFite
Posts: 1165
Joined: 02 Jul 2006 02:35

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby rkhanna » 11 Mar 2009 22:51

A question about the ABM test and BM shield. To get true ICBM early warning capability dont you need a dedicated X Band Radar? Something the GreenPine/LRTR is not capable of doing?

Something like this?

US Mobile X-Band Radar.(Picture)

http://www.defenselink.mil/dodcmsshare/newsphoto/2006-01/060109-N-3019M-012.jpg

AFAIK only America and Russia have such tech and the israelis are still playing catch up. Where do we stand on this?

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54825
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby ramana » 11 Mar 2009 23:02

Only uncle has enough ICBMs to target India and thats not happening. So concentrate on immediate threat and nullify PRC's short and medium range arsenal.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54825
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby ramana » 12 Mar 2009 00:01

Need to summarize the meaning of the recent PAD test and the focus of the follow-on porgram.

The recent PAD test shows that India has ability to neutralize BMs upto ~2000 km range. Current demonstrated capability is single incoming at that range. the next tests have to demonstrate a double encounter: A PAD at an incoming and then AAD takin it out. But the first can be a dummy using software as it would be waste of resources for actual testing. The next should be a barce of incoming and PADs to take out the incoming. Maybe this can be a PAD and AAD dual launch which would substitute the first one. It would be good if the services are also integrated in the planning and execution of the follow-on tests.


The follow-on programs emphasis is on more challenging incoming which are now a PRC exclusive. With the meltdown PRC wont have the resources to increase the number of incoming as that would threaten Asian stability as a side bar. So this is a complex dynamic.

As part of the US-PRC post financial bonhomie expect calls from US for India to curtail this program as a favor to PRC.

Arun_S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2800
Joined: 14 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: KhyberDurra

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Arun_S » 12 Mar 2009 00:12

ramana wrote:The follow-on programs emphasis is on more challenging incoming which are now a PRC exclusive. With the meltdown PRC wont have the resources to increase the number of incoming as that would threaten Asian stability as a side bar. So this is a complex dynamic.

As part of the US-PRC post financial bonhomie expect calls from US for India to curtail this program as a favor to PRC.

I agree.

tejas
BRFite
Posts: 768
Joined: 31 Mar 2008 04:47

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby tejas » 12 Mar 2009 03:45

India is a poor nation where 99.98% of the population lives on less than one rupee per day. In this desperate economic scenario we cannot afford to give any favors to the PRC which now has passed Japan to have the second largest economy in the world.

Perhaps if Unkil stopped all military welfare to TSP we could "stop" all R&D on BMD just as we "stopped" R&D for Agni under PVN Rao.

Arya Sumantra
BRFite
Posts: 558
Joined: 02 Aug 2008 11:47
Location: Deep Freezer

Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Postby Arya Sumantra » 12 Mar 2009 03:58

self-deleted
Last edited by Arya Sumantra on 12 Mar 2009 04:06, edited 1 time in total.


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 72 guests