Tibet watch

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 11 Mar 2009 19:45

Liu wrote: well, Dalai can say whatever he want ...but whatever he says can change the fact: " china is on the way to be the next superpower....and .....no country dare "liberate Tibet" from the hand of PRC..."

Liu, you were warned just a few days ago on using the disrespectful "Dalal". Please change your addressing of His Highness. We do not care what your opinion on Shri Dalai Lama is, he is a man of age and wisdom and that commands respect, in India and on this forum.

namit k · Post by **namit k** » 11 Mar 2009 19:58

dear liu,
time will tell what power china becomes and for how long it survives, for which people it becomes a superpower and who likes it at all
and for your country some mongol shepherds did the job of bulldozing it, even when your great superpower build the great wall on its own people's dead bodies , that cant save it because china has a long history of showing strong outside but in reality it was always weak within
dont worry unkil sam will be keeping something to sand your country ,some weapon you cant copy or cant make

one such weapon is 'DEMOCRACY'
now ask your commie brothers to convert china into a vibrant democracy, they cant and if they try they will pi@# in their pants
no country wants to defeat an ever copying and mass producing industrial country ,its other fact that it dies within ,which nobody cares not even chinese rulers
superpowers are not made by copying others but it is an evolving process based on many factors,
respecting human rights is one of them
btw you wont understand that because chinese communists proudly say their first step is to thrash human rights while advertising that they are doing this all for human rights( remember Tienanmen??)

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 11 Mar 2009 21:21

Liu wrote: well, Dalai can say whatever he want ...but whatever he says can change the fact: " china is on the way to be the next superpower....and .....no country dare "liberate Tibet" from the hand of PRC..."

No nation, power, Superpower, Super Super Super power lasts forever. PRC will rise, and then decline. Many great "unbeatable" powers that were supposed to last "forever" have come and gone. That is the law. I don't see it changing any time soon. Good luck!!!

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 11 Mar 2009 23:23

Liu wrote: well, Dalai can say whatever he want ...but whatever he says can change the fact: " china is on the way to be the next superpower....and .....no country dare "liberate Tibet" from the hand of PRC..."

Tibetans will liberate Tibet themselves at the right time !

sivabala · Post by **sivabala** » 12 Mar 2009 00:31

People who retained their culture overtly/covertly under alien dominance will eventually get liberated.
e.g.: Israel, India.

People who got assimilated with the invader will never win back their land.
e.g.: Native americans, aborigin asutralians.

so far, Tibet falls in the first category, with India acts as a seed protecting the Tibetian nucleus.

Time will tell how long the seed can withstand.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 12 Mar 2009 01:49

Liu wrote
well, Dalai can say whatever he want ...but whatever he says can change the fact: " china is on the way to be the next superpower....and .....no country dare "liberate Tibet" from the hand of PRC..."

China is not on the way to be he next superpower. It has already overstretched its imperialistic ambitions. In switching to a superfast economic growth model, it hwas naturally forced to adopt stat-capitalism. But capitalism in any form requires either (1) excessive looting of capital from colonies, (2) or intensive exploitation of domestic labour or (3) extraction of capital from other countries through unequal trade - all of which require physical coercion at some stage in one form or another. To support the CCP ambitions and satisfy the hunger for prosperity of the Chinese people which has been used by the CCP to divert attention from growth of other types of desires - ideological ones along the lines in the West, PRC has embarked on intensive "growth". PRC cannot use (1) except from Tibet which it is colonizing by trying to change the demography through resettlement and relocation of ethnic Hans in Tibet.

Apart from international factors like the collapse of the Western consumer economies on which China relied partly for capital acccumulation, the basic "colonizing" mentality of the Han CCP prevents it from genuinely feeling confident about the Tibetan ethnicity. This imperialistic colonizing attitude of the Han Chinese had also caused problems towards the end of the first millenium whne Tibetans aggressively resisted Chinese expansion, and China sought the help of the then Hindu kingdom of Kashmir to contain Tibet. The Tibetans have been fighting for their "nation" for at least a 1000 years. And now actually whatever PRC does will weaken its hold on Tibet.

The more PRC wants to change the demography by settling Hans it will alienate the Tibetans. The more Tibetans are alienated and pushed to a subsidiary political and economic role, the more will be the nervousness of the PRC - which means increased Han presence for reliability - more infratructure to facilitate coercive state machinery, like the PLA. All this eventually actually helps the Tibetan countermove, since the same infrastructure can also be used by a properly equipped or supplied Tibetan force to wreak havoc on the settled Hans and other establishments of PRC in the region. Eventually all the material development invested in Tibet by the PRC will come in useful for the new Tibetan nation.

If PRC softens its stand, then this will be seen as sign of weakness by the more radical among the Tibetans, and will actually embolden them to increase momentum for their liberation struggle.

Either way, I hope dear Liu realizes the inevitatbility of PRC withdrawal from occupation of Tibet.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 12 Mar 2009 04:49

Pringle gives backing to UN Tibet petition

Published Date: 11 March 2009
EDINBURGH South Liberal Democrat MSP Mike Pringle has backed a national petition calling for a UN investigation into recent human rights violations in Tibet.
The petition to the European Parliament has support from every political party and is to be given to Scottish MEPs this week. It follows the latest crackdown on all dissent in Tibet by the ruling Chinese authorities.

Mr Pringle said: "I'm extremely pleased that Scottish politicians support a solution in Tibet."

http://news.scotsman.com/politics/Pring ... 5059043.jp

Tibet and CIA’s support
Matišák | 14 Marec, 2009 00:49

John Kenneth Knaus was the chief of CIA Tibetan Task Force from 1958 to 1965 insurgents. He shared some thoughts with me.

The 50th anniversary of the Revolt is a time for sober reflection on the motivation, merits and results of those involved. It is especially relevant to note that the revolt was initiated and launched by the Tibetan people themselves in both protest against a system of rule that was being imposed on them and for the freedom to practice both a religion embodied by the Dalai Lama one of whose titles in Kundun meaning "presence" and a way of life marked by self sufficiency and responsibility.

It is also relevant to note that it was the Tibetans who came to representatives of the US Government asking only for the weapons and means to carry on their own revolt. It was not the Americans seeking to foment a revolt in a remote area far removed from their sphere of familiarity and accessibility. You may recall that this contact began in the period following the failure of the Hungarian Revolt where the US Government's failure or incapability to intervene on behalf of those rebelling was a matter of grave regret and serious evaluation of the covert capabilities to make a positive intervention in like situations. The initial operation finally agreed on was to train a small group to Tibetans who were to be dropped back into the areas of the resistance fighters to determine that they existed in sufficient numbers and were in a situation to conduct meaningful resistance activities that merited support.

It should also be noted that it was the Dalai Lama and his handful of close associates who made the decision on their own -and certainly not with any consultation with CIA or any other US Government organization to flee Lhasa. It was only after they had left Lhasa and were well on their way that they were joined by two of the men that the CIA had trained to carry out the guerrilla evaluation mission who had been provided with both radios and the ability to transmit messages to Washington as the escape party made its way to the Indian border. This capability to keep the President informed on the Dalai Lama's progress on his escape journey was an intelligence coup, but the initiative for the escape like the revolt then in progress was purely Tibetan.

The subsequent continued operations which the US supported were valiant failures, but the determination of the Tibetans to carry them out provided added substance to the pledges of support for Tibetan self determination that first the USG and then United Nations eventually made and that has enhanced their cause for the past half century and makes it still vibrant today.

http://matisak.blog.obroda.sk/blog/engl ... as_support

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 12 Mar 2009 20:08

IMO, Tibetan culture is to decline and fade ,not due to the "suppress from Beijing" so called, but due to the tide of "globlization and monderization".

Among the tidy ,the weak and undeveloped cultures are doomed to lose their characteristics to meet the damand of "modernization and economy development"

such cases have take place everywhere in the earth.....

For example.
American Indians gave up their life-sytle as a hord tribe...trillions of non-western people,including Chinese ,gave their traditional dresses and wear western dresses. millions of African gave up their tradtional life-style and poured into cities for jobs...

so wil happened to Tibetan.....

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 12 Mar 2009 20:33

Dear Liu (I am using western style address, as I am not sure my typical addressing for Indians with -ji, will not offend you),
I think you are treading on dangerous grounds here, especially if change of clothes appear to you to be change of culture. By that token, China changed its culture when it took to the Mao-coat. But then why then talk about "Sinification of Marxism" - what Sino was this ? If it was already changed, it could not be talking of a pre-existing Sino? But then if the new-Sino was a product of change in thesense you mean - a copying or replacement of the "older one" by the new "western one", and Marxism being definitely of West European origin - whay change the "source of the change" by something which resulted from that "change"? Do you realize you are actually jeopardizing the very basis of claims of Chinese imperialism - that everything good and worthwhile developed intrinsically within geographical borders of China, and that such goodness has to be spread out into the world - Tibet for example?

For your knowldge, maybe you should really look again at modern resurgence in Native American cultures where they are increasingly trying to reassert their traditional culture. Before describing other nations and their traditions as "weaker" and fit to be thrown into the garbage heap of history, it is worthwhile to stop and think not only of the arrogance that makes such statements, but also the inherent weakness of the culture that makes such claims of superiority without giving a detailed analysis.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 12 Mar 2009 20:57

Liu wrote:IMO, Tibetan culture is to decline and fade ,not due to the "suppress from Beijing" so called, but due to the tide of "globlization and monderization".

Among the tidy ,the weak and undeveloped cultures are doomed to lose their characteristics to meet the damand of "modernization and economy development"

such cases have take place everywhere in the earth.....

For example.
American Indians gave up their life-sytle as a hord tribe...trillions of non-western people,including Chinese ,gave their traditional dresses and wear western dresses. millions of African gave up their tradtional life-style and poured into cities for jobs...

so wil happened to Tibetan.....

The culture will 'modernize' but the basic essence of the culture and people will live. Tibetians in India live with their culture and also goi thrung the modernizing effect in India. They never have any problem in India.

Why do they have problem in China occupied Tibet.

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 12 Mar 2009 22:21

Liu wrote: trillions of non-western people,including Chinese ,gave their traditional dresses and wear western dresses.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 12 Mar 2009 23:16

I don't understand this thread. Tibet is dead. Dead as a door knob. Its gone..kaput.

Kissinger and Nixon has given it to the Chinese and you can't get it back. US stands behind China's control of Tibet. India is impotent and unwilling to do anything other than constant whining.

The only people who cares about Tibet are the lefty liberals...who wouldn't lift a weapon to fight for what they believe in. For this lot, there is nothing in this world worth fighting for or defending. They are simply cowards.

China is waiting for the death of Dalai Lama. And that would clear the little smoke of "hope" in the air.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 12 Mar 2009 23:29

Manny.... Not yet! After the death of Dalai Lama only will begin a real struggle! Dalai Lama still holds the spirit of non-violence and violence together under his control. But then China will see. India having supported Dalai Lama will not have much influence on those who are ready to fight on their own after Dalai! May be the young one will have more to support that side of the struggle. It is pity that China is not making use of the opportunity to talk to Dalai and settle a greater autonomy once for all!!!!!! but try to crush all the aspirants cruelly till today.

EU lawmakers urge China to discuss real autonomy with Tibet

STRASBOURG (AFP) — European lawmakers urged China Thursday to renew dialogue on real autonomy for Tibet, in a resolution marking 50 years since a failed uprising there forced the Tibetan spiritual leader into exile.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... 4kJ_Ffdrlw

Keshav · Post by **Keshav** » 13 Mar 2009 05:01

joshvajohn wrote:Manny.... Not yet! After the death of Dalai Lama only will begin a real struggle! Dalai Lama still holds the spirit of non-violence and violence together under his control. May be the young one will have more to support that side of the struggle. It is pity that China is not making use of the opportunity to talk to Dalai and settle a greater autonomy once for all

The kids will definitely take over.

After the Dalai Lama stated that the Middle Path had failed you found quite a few Tibetans advocating violence against the Chinese. WIthout the religious restraint, guerilla warfare will certainly follow in great intensity.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 13 Mar 2009 11:00

X posting from the Chinese Combined thread

By the end of July 2002, the Chinese authorities closed down Tsangsul School. This Tibetan-run school was first founded in 1988 through the joint effort of three Tibetan individuals to promote and preserve Tibetan language. The primary reason for the school’s closure was its popularity for giving emphasis to Tibetan culture. Parents removed their children from the government school, Yuethong school no.1 to admit them to Tsangsul school. The school followed the curriculum similar to the other middle level school with an emphasis on Tibetan. At the time of its closure the school had 500 students, of whom 60 students—all orphans—received free education while the others, who generally were unable to pay the regular exorbitant fees asked by other schools, paid a nominal fee of 20 yuan per semester, significantly less than the cost of a Chinese government-run school.

I thought I should share with you as to what is it in Tibet and why quite a few Tibetans know Mandarin.

This systematic 'destruction' of the Tibetan identity does not surprise me. You can connect it with my post on Understanding the Chinese where I quoted from a published book of how the Hans considered themselves as nei ren (inner people) and superior to all and others as wai ren (barbarians) and those who adopted the Han culture and intermarried were called shufan (cooked barbarians) and those who did not were termed as shengfan (raw barbarians).

I presume the effort of the Chinese govt is to make the Tibetans, currently raw barbarians, into cooked barbarians.

But will the Chinese succeed?

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 13 Mar 2009 11:51

RayC wrote:
But will the Chinese succeed?

Give two more generations of the same, I say why not?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 13 Mar 2009 13:40

My dear Liu,Tibetn culture will NEVER die and fade away,because just like Indian culture,of which Buddhism is just one Indian gift to the world,including China,has been preserved for milenniain India! We Indians preserve the cosmic truths for posterity and have been doing so for thousands of years.Your current pseudo-Communist military dictatorship in China will fade away faster than many lesser empires in history,as it is based upon a fundamental weakness of opression of the human being! In fact,your own analysis that "globalisation" will defeat Tibetan culture is actually what is happening to your very own nation,it is being defeated by capitalist consumerism,where you Chinese have lost your traditional strengths and values in favour of the glitz and gilt of western materialism,now reeling from the globe's worst economic catastrophe for a century! It is not as if we are not in India also facing economic problems thanks to uncontrolled capitalist greed.We also have our fraudsters,but we have preserved magnificently our ancient culture which is vibrant and alive,wheeras,your culture is nothing more than "dead" buildings for tourists,empty of the living people who made China a great nation in history.

There is a limit that forcible enslavement to China's economic model can bring.There is a line beyond whch anarchy will prevail and in the absence of any genuine democratic life for the Chines epeople,its authoritarian rulers will one day face another revolution which will sweep tham and their uniformed "prison-guards" away in a flood of blood.Tibetan culture during this time will be happily alive in India waiting to return to Tibet once the PRC collapses!

AjayKK · Post by **AjayKK** » 13 Mar 2009 13:50

China closes Tibet to foreign eyes

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/malcolmmoo ... reign_eyes

Despite China's promises, made after the Olympics, that foreign journalists would be allowed to operate freely, the authorities have not only closed off Tibet, but also the parts of Western China where Tibetans live.

Since it is the 50th anniversary of the Dalai Lama's exile from Tibet, China wants total control of the region, and closed off Tibet to all foreigners in mid February.

The government also decided, however, to make sure the surrounding provinces of Gansu, Qinghai and Sichuan were off-limits to reporters (and possibly other foreigners).

Form flickr:

On the fiftieth anniversary, Tibetan monks and Chinese police at Kumbum Ta'er monastry Xining Qinghai China

And this is the photostream of Qinghai 03/2009 by Remko Tanis, a journalist from China.

http://www.flickr.com/search/?ss=2&ct=6 ... 009&m=text

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 13 Mar 2009 15:54

Tough times for foreign reporters in Tibet

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 13 Mar 2009 16:23

The great Middle Kingdom is running scared of letting "barbarian" reporters see the truth of how it is enslaving Tibet!

namit k · Post by **namit k** » 13 Mar 2009 20:14

Manny wrote:I don't understand this thread. Tibet is dead. Dead as a door knob. Its gone..kaput.

Kissinger and Nixon has given it to the Chinese and you can't get it back. US stands behind China's control of Tibet. India is impotent and unwilling to do anything other than constant whining.

The only people who cares about Tibet are the lefty liberals...who wouldn't lift a weapon to fight for what they believe in. For this lot, there is nothing in this world worth fighting for or defending. They are simply cowards.

China is waiting for the death of Dalai Lama. And that would clear the little smoke of "hope" in the air.

the struggle should start now ,when Dalai lama is alive,
note it , the INA was doing its role irrespective of Mahatma's non violence struggle, here the later will extinct first,but it hardly makes a difference in overall result,
after freedom Tibet will surge to peace,religion,purity as the red dragon leaves/dies.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 13 Mar 2009 22:58

China should be tempted more and more to overspend militarily - it is already on the road to destructions just as USSR once did and USA is now heading towards. The more it spends on occupation of Tibet the better. The more military infrastructure it builds to maintian CC and PLA control the better - for all these can be used equally well by a well trained and equipped TLA, (Tibetan Liberation Army). To a certain extent HH The Dalai Lama is an obstacle towards Tibetan independence, for his background and symbolic identification with rejection of certain strategies. But an independent TLA can function irrespective of whether the spiritual leadership approves of them or not. In fact the presence and activity of such a TLA will represent a far better choice for the CCP to negotiate with the spiritual leadership, as there would still be some hope of compromise - but once something like the TLA gains momentum, that will be the practical end of the Han CCP empire, and probably the very same CCP style liquidation of the large resettled Han population on the Tibetan plateau.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 13 Mar 2009 23:55

To a certain extent HH The Dalai Lama is an obstacle towards Tibetan independence, for his background and symbolic identification with rejection of certain strategies.

Excellent point, which I have found hard to say so myself. The time of choosing of the Tibetan response to CCP will be only after the current Dalai Lama's time. PRC need to realize this to avoid a costly confrontation in the near future. From what we can gather so far, even the few participants from PRC on various threads here are far from understanding the value of true freedom.

ravit · Post by **ravit** » 14 Mar 2009 02:15

Keshav wrote:
joshvajohn wrote:Manny.... Not yet! After the death of Dalai Lama only will begin a real struggle! Dalai Lama still holds the spirit of non-violence and violence together under his control. May be the young one will have more to support that side of the struggle. It is pity that China is not making use of the opportunity to talk to Dalai and settle a greater autonomy once for all
The kids will definitely take over.

After the Dalai Lama stated that the Middle Path had failed you found quite a few Tibetans advocating violence against the Chinese. WIthout the religious restraint, guerilla warfare will certainly follow in great intensity.

But, I doubt violence will succeed against Chinese ruthless communist aggression. Chinese will give back ten-times violence to Tibetans if they pursue violent path, not that Chinese are not aggressive now.

I am asking this question to all the gurus here, If Tibetans pursue violence, Can they succeed? My guess, any revolt will be violently suppressed, just like it was in most of the English colonies.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 14 Mar 2009 02:21

For anything to succeed, the tibetaans need a comitted foreign power, that will help them militarily, diplomatically, & politically. Just the geography of the situation means that this power cannot be anyone except India. That unfortunately is the biggest misforrtune of the tibetans. They couldn't have picked a worse nation to be their neighbor. India lacks the guts, the courage, the stamina and the vision to help them. That is what screwed them in 1950s, and that is what they are hamstrung with right now.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 14 Mar 2009 02:42

surinder,
geographical proximity isn't necessarily a necessity for providing the support for such rebellions. case in point being american help to the afghan mujahideen. Also, given that tibetan diaspora is spread across many countries means they can be helped by other powers too, though for their own end-goals. In this, if India keeps to mouthing platitudes while looking the other way as the tibetans use the territory as a base would be the max we can expect out of the goi. And i guess the tibetans realise that too. I'd say they aren't really looking for a strong goi backing though behind the scenes help or passive help might be good enough for them. I agree that we really don't see us helping them like the help to the ltte.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 14 Mar 2009 03:01

tsriram wrote:surinder,
geographical proximity isn't necessarily a necessity for providing the support for such rebellions. case in point being american help to the afghan mujahideen. Also, given that tibetan diaspora is spread across many countries means they can be helped by other powers too, though for their own end-goals. In this, if India keeps to mouthing platitudes while looking the other way as the tibetans use the territory as a base would be the max we can expect out of the goi. And i guess the tibetans realise that too. I'd say they aren't really looking for a strong goi backing though behind the scenes help or passive help might be good enough for them. I agree that we really don't see us helping them like the help to the ltte.

Geographical proximity matters immensely. The geography of the situation no one, except, India to provide everything that the tibetans need for a successful mission.

AmariKhan could not have succeeded in resisting the Soviets if TSP was available as a vassal state. PRC would not, and could not, fight american wars by supporting (say) Granada, as they did in Korea & Vietnam. USSR was unable to station missiles in Cuba. Geography has been unkind to the Tibetans, PRC stabbed them, India looked the other way (and still does).

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 14 Mar 2009 03:38

China Protests a U.S. Resolution on Tibet

The US MUST have a Tibet envoy.

The nonbinding resolution, timed to mark the 50th anniversary of a failed Tibetan uprising against Chinese rule, passed 422 to 1.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 14 Mar 2009 03:46

Tibet Atrocities Dot Official China History

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 14 Mar 2009 07:49

GOI did not do much for Tibet post-Independence probably because the then GOI head had several personal and political vulnerabilities towards at least three foreign powers. In the 1949-1962 period, USSR backed PRC fully, and JLN could not do much. On the other hand US was trying to neutralize USSR influence on India, and was perhaps involved in giving the "proper" signals to HH and JLN for HH's escape from Lhasa. Preservation of HH could become a good hand in US hands during the height of the Cold War against the red-front. But most mysterrious I guess would be the role of UK. From UK's viewpoint, an independent Tibet would be way too much in favour of India and US whose dominance over Asia it probably still resented. The British would have had solid presence and extending networks from their colonial time presence in China and their ports sitting on Chinese shoulders. The PRC regime had also cultivated overseas Chinese right from the days of its formal foundation in 1950.

HH's presence and preservation post Nixon-Mao would become important for both US and USSR, for manipulating PRC. By placing him in India both gain the advantage of placing the gun on India's shoulders and focusing PRC anger on India, while they could subtly hint about supporting the Tibetan cause to gain whatever mileage they needed from PRC.

Any LOI, (and not just mere GOI) must realize that a free and independent Tibet is a fundamental part of the geostrategic future of India, and India has to do all it can to achieve this. It is not so difficult to do actually. The overextended imperiliast-military positioning by PRC exposess it to four great strategic weaknesses. Its vulnerable coastal and subcoastal populations are reachable from a sufficiently strong fleet from international waters from the Pacific. Lhasa is reachable quickly from eastern India. A simultaneous move from occupied northern heads in Indian territory splits the PLA. India can also come to an understanding with the Islamists to allow them safe passage to NE China and support them if they go against China. PLA cannot withstand mobile warfare in this terrain - it never managed to, even during its struggling 8th and 4th Route Army days when it escaped the fifth encirclement and annihilation campaign by Chiang Kai Shek. Only astute political compromise with the various local tribes and Muslim groups allowed Mao and his companiosn to survive and pass through in their North ward march. This is not a terrain natural for the plains Han to fight in. HH or not, Tibetan indpendence has to be achieved and a TLA formed. PRC has already taken a lot of initiative and invested tremendously in TSP and promoting the most atrocious and sadistic of Islamic terror on India. It is time the favour is returned. The current GOI or Indian state establishment may play second fiddle to PRC because of very same considtions as in the 40's - but their time is over.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 14 Mar 2009 09:22

Our friend Liu fails to understand that modernity and "prosperity" will not relieve Tibetans of their culture. The photos he himself has posted show that quite clearly. One look at the Tibetans in India will show him that they can be both modern to a fault and devout Buddhists at the same time because both conditions are not mutually exclusive or antagonistic to each other. One has to be truly soulless to think this. It is not possible in this day of the IED, rocket launcher and AK47 to obliterate a peoples' identity like the whites did to the Australian aborigines or the Native Americans. To realize that this fiction is widely believed in China speaks volumes about why it has lost its own culture.

The images that most fit this emptiness and unreality are the ones posted by Liu of Lhasa railway station--huge, spic, span and modern but not a single human being in sight.

namit k · Post by **namit k** » 14 Mar 2009 13:46

^ edit occupation is a curse for Tibet, not that china can't handle that much area but it is the basic difference in beliefs.

On one hand Tibet is known as a contributor to peace and internal human freedom(moksha based religion and traditional values) while modern chinki han values and working style is just opposite, that is repressive to human values, communist agenda, and all bad things,
the more chinks move towards their so called modernity(like making large buildings which fall like a sand wall in earthquakes, roads, all infrastructure etcc in return for freedom of all things)
the more they alienate themselves from Tibet,
then easier it will be to separate it.

in response to the earlier posts of brihaspati ,nrao ,surinder sir ^^,
it will be very wise for India to involve in Tibet's freedom struggle, i can guarantee that one will see very unexpected and hugely favorable results in its output,
I guess gurus understand what I m not writing here

but it will be wiser for India to not involve itself on its own(alone), as that would backfire the results
but it should be a collaborative effort of all who don't like chinese style of world rising, be it whole west and many asian democratic countries
i m not underestimating chinki power but they will not be so difficult to defeat, but all depends on unkil's wisdom as first it frees India from the cancer it has created on its western border,if it has to tackle chinks rise

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 14 Mar 2009 16:09

Tibet Tibet, raise your flag....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLKM06AzSfI
Its amazing Bjork could sing this in Shanghai & even more surprising to hear the crowd cheer...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEUFCK1q ... re=related

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 15 Mar 2009 05:15

Tibet riot and its quelling remains suppressed

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... gD96TSMEG0

Obama raises Tibet issue with Yang
http://www.ptinews.com/pti%5Cptisite.ns ... enDocument
Lalit K Jha
Washington, Mar 13 (PTI) Raising the Tibet issue during his meeting with Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi today, US President Barack Obama hoped that there would be progress in the talks between Beijing and representatives of the Dalai Lama on the contentious issue.

Despite Chinese discomfort, Obama raised the Tibet issue with Yang during the meeting at his Oval Office in White House.

"The President expressed his hope there would be progress in the dialogue between the Chinese government and the Dalai Lama's representatives," said the White House in a statement issued after the meeting.

During the meeting, Obama noted that promotion of human rights is an essential aspect of US global foreign policy.

"On human rights, the president noted that the promotion of human rights is an essential aspect of US global foreign policy," the White House statement said.

Earlier this week, the United States had expressed concern over human rights situation in Tibet and said only "a substantive dialogue" with the Dalai Lama's representative could bring a lasting peace in this region. PTI

Purush · Post by **Purush** » 15 Mar 2009 06:54

From the archives...

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/ ... 315ec.html
50 YEARS AGO
Tuesday, Mar. 31, 1959
Tibetan tragedy

Communist China is now blaming India for what is obviously nothing more than their deep concern regarding the recent happenings in Tibet.

Considering all the circumstances of the case and the long history of the neighborly connection between India and Tibet, it is only natural that Indian people should feel profoundly interested in the fate of the mountain country.

It may perhaps also be pointed out to Peiping (Beijing) that the rest of mankind is also interested in the future of Tibet and that any attempt to destroy the Tibetan people will be regarded with horror and disgust throughout the world.

The cruel subjugation of Hungary and the destruction of Hungarian liberties by Soviet Russia (in 1956) were perhaps believed in Moscow to be necessary for the purpose of erecting a Western bulwark for its own defense, but Peiping can hardly urge that it was necessary to interfere in Tibetan affairs to the extent of sending a Communist army into Tibet and attempting to undermine the country's traditional manner of life.

The population of the country is probably not more than 1 1/2 million, and many inhabitants are engaged in a religious profession, so it cannot be seriously maintained that they constitute any menace to Red China with its 600 million people and large armaments.

Nor is there any country bordering on Tibet that constitutes a threat to China. Soviet Russia is a near neighbor, of course, but the only other country close to Tibet, apart from China, is India.

India has consistently striven for good relations with Red China ever since she achieved independence from British rule. She watched Peiping's tightening grip on Tibet with a feeling of its needlessness for some years, but agreed to fall in with Red Chinese wishes so far as she was affected.

Now comes the allegation from China that Kalimpong, a market town near Darjeeling in Indian territory, is the headquarters of a Tibetan movement against Red China. Kalimpong has for years been regarded as the link between Tibet and the Western world — India being considered as part of the Western world for this purpose — but it has never had any political significance, and nothing could be more unlikely than that the Indian Government would allow it to be used for political intrigues, whether by Tibetans or Indians.

Meanwhile, Peiping has dissolved the Tibetan Local Government and taken measures to exercise as much control as possible over the country, while thousands of Red Chinese soldiers are reported to be fanning out from Lhasa in an attempt to secure the Dalai Lama. The Chinese Reds allege that the Dalai Lama has been "abducted by traitorous elements," but it seems likely that he has made his escape from the Potala (his palace in Lhasa) of his own accord.

It does not seem likely that the Tibetans will be able to resist for long the overwhelming forces that the Peiping regime can bring against them, but it is difficult to see that the Reds have much to gain from the loss of Tibetan liberties.

Tibet is known to possess considerable mineral resources, and the Reds are supposed to have harbored some idea of replacing the native inhabitants with more amenable Chinese immigrants, but the inhospitable climate and the difficult geographical features are hardly appropriate to such ideas. The world — or at least the non-Communist part of it — will hope that this small but interesting nation will be spared from genocide.

sudarshan · Post by **sudarshan** » 15 Mar 2009 11:22

Stan_Savljevic wrote:
Liu wrote: well, Dalai can say whatever he want ...but whatever he says can change the fact: " china is on the way to be the next superpower....and .....no country dare "liberate Tibet" from the hand of PRC..."
Liu, you were warned just a few days ago on using the disrespectful "Dalal". Please change your addressing of His Highness. We do not care what your opinion on Shri Dalai Lama is, he is a man of age and wisdom and that commands respect, in India and on this forum.

See, this is the Chinese attitude, not just towards Tibet, but the rest of the non-Han world. The world saw the callousness with which the Chinese treated the protesting Tibetans on the eve of the Olympics. "These dirty Tibetans - they're out to ruin our moment under the sun." Never mind that the Tibetans are human beings too, protesting an unjust and repressive occupation of their country - just so long as Chinese honor is preserved.

Inferior non-Han peoples are allowed to share the planet with the superior Hans, so long as they give up their resources and their independence and accept Han sovereignty. Doesn't matter if they are Vietnamese (who, fortunately for themselves, prevailed against Chinese aggression), Uighurs, Mongols, or Tibetans, let alone the brown savages in the lands further south. The white barbarians to the north, unfortunately, are stronger and have more of the big-bang weapons, but their time will come. Just keep whittling away at the lands to the north of the Amur, settling them little by little with Han folks. This has been the essence of the Chinese attitude towards other people for the last two thousand years at least.

For all the much-vaunted Chinese cunning, these people are unable to comprehend that the Dalai Lama is pretty much the only thing keeping the Tibetans from exploding into a level of violence orders of magnitude higher than that of today (if at all there is any violence on the Tibetans' part today, that is). Much like the British attitude towards Gandhi - arrest the half-naked fakir every time there is a protest in India, regardless of the fact that the fakir (rightly or wrongly) is the one working overtime to tone down the violence. Non-violinists (for want of a better term) of the world be warned - you will be the first to shoulder the blame for any violence.

Sudarshan

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 17 Mar 2009 07:10

Modernization poses new challenges for Tibetans
Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:38pm EDT
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNew ... 5E20090317

By Ben Blanchard

TONGREN, China (Reuters) - Steeped in centuries-old, devoutly Buddhist traditions, Tibetans today face harsh choices as they fight to hold on to their unique identity without getting left behind in China's headlong rush toward modernity.

The decisions range from painful ones about whether children should focus on their native Tibetan or the national language Mandarin at school, to rather more mundane ones such as what clothes to wear, music to listen to and books to read.

At stake is the creation of a modern Tibetan culture that is more than just an imitation of their Han Chinese neighbors, or reaction to China's religious and political pressure.

This year is the 50th anniversary of the flight into exile of Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama, after a failed uprising against Chinese rule. With the likelihood of his returning getting ever smaller, some Tibetans are trying to be practical.

"You have to learn Chinese as without it you can't achieve anything and you'll have no future," said Tendun, 23, a monk in a heavily Tibetan corner of the remote far western province of Qinghai, who spoke very passable, if heavily accented, Mandarin.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 17 Mar 2009 20:08

Acharya wrote:
Modernization poses new challenges for Tibetans
Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:38pm EDT
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNew ... 5E20090317

By Ben Blanchard

TONGREN, China (Reuters) - Steeped in centuries-old, devoutly Buddhist traditions, Tibetans today face harsh choices as they fight to hold on to their unique identity without getting left behind in China's headlong rush toward modernity.

The decisions range from painful ones about whether children should focus on their native Tibetan or the national language Mandarin at school, to rather more mundane ones such as what clothes to wear, music to listen to and books to read.

At stake is the creation of a modern Tibetan culture that is more than just an imitation of their Han Chinese neighbors, or reaction to China's religious and political pressure.

This year is the 50th anniversary of the flight into exile of Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama, after a failed uprising against Chinese rule. With the likelihood of his returning getting ever smaller, some Tibetans are trying to be practical.

"You have to learn Chinese as without it you can't achieve anything and you'll have no future," said Tendun, 23, a monk in a heavily Tibetan corner of the remote far western province of Qinghai, who spoke very passable, if heavily accented, Mandarin.

just as I posted, what may destroy Tibetan unique culture is not "the supress of evil Chinese government", but the "modernization and globalization".

Chinese government know it very well, and trys its best to modernize Tibet.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 17 Mar 2009 20:21

Liu wrote:

just as I posted, what may destroy Tibetan unique culture is not "the supress of evil Chinese government", but the "modernization and globalization".

Chinese government know it very well, and trys its best to modernize Tibet.

Chinese govt has to adopt Tibetan language and make it primary language in Tibet.
Also make sure that the Tibet Buddhist order are able to flourish and have exchange of Buddhist scholars from India and other countries. There should be free flow of religion and ideas across the border.

This is called modernization and globalization.

vina · Post by **vina** » 17 Mar 2009 20:39

Liu wrote: well, Dalai can say whatever he want ...but whatever he says can change the fact: " china is on the way to be the next superpower....and .....no country dare "liberate Tibet" from the hand of PRC..."

Oh, dont worry. A far stronger REAL super power crumbled right before our very eyes with the fall of the Berlin wall and the empire built over 300 years fell apart. The wannabe superpower wont even get to Super Powerdom, there is nothing "inevitable" about it, despite all the propaganda from your Communist overlords. And no, Soviet Union imploded without warning. Commie China will too. That is the way it works in authoritarian states. There is no outlet and all the pressure is bottled up until it goes Kaboom.

In the meanwhile, rather than wh*ring your soul to your Commie thug masters , you might want to get in touch with your more human side and recognize the greatness and the spiritual authority of the Dalai Lama. It might actually do you a world of good. Just look at his face.. It radiates a really god like Charisma and look at Hu Jintao or Wen Jiaobao or some such commie leader and you know the difference.. And dont even talk about Mao and his lack of facility with a toothbrush (didnt he gargle with green tea to pass off as brushing teeth ?) , and your veneration of his rubbish in the lil red book.