China Military Watch

kobe · Post by **kobe** » 29 Mar 2009 22:31

Shenlong: Chinese Space Weapon Dreams

Major Chinese Cyber Spying Uncovered

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 30 Mar 2009 03:05

^^ for responsible countries like Russia,Usa,India it was possible to control arms race in space
but this foolish dragon

wont be easier to tame
in lust of power see in how many rogue states it has spread wmds, porki,sudan,iraq,iran,nk....
they are doing every shit of work in lust of supremacy
faster it will come down

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 30 Mar 2009 03:32

It is a shame that with all of India's skills and leadership in computers/software we could not prevent the Chinese from hacking our networks. The Chinese have declared covert war in cyberspace. I hope that we will give them a befitting reply.

sivabala · Post by **sivabala** » 30 Mar 2009 05:33

Most of the Indian companies in computer technologies are in just database maintenance business. There is no noteworthy Indian company in internet security service. We don't even have good indigenous encryption technology. Our intelligence agencies cannot decrypt 128 bit encrypted communication. Almost for all wireless radio decryption our agencies rely on imported hardware. How can you expect our country to be proactive in this domain.

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 30 Mar 2009 06:06

So much for our great IT expertise and skills.

Our government can't even leverage skills that they have in abundance!

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 30 Mar 2009 06:32

Brando wrote:So much for our great IT expertise and skills.

Our government can't even leverage skills that they have in abundance!

What are the GOI's hiring policies? Lowest bidder? Reservation-based? Ministerial contacts?

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 30 Mar 2009 07:20

anupmisra wrote:
Brando wrote:So much for our great IT expertise and skills.

Our government can't even leverage skills that they have in abundance!
What are the GOI's hiring policies? Lowest bidder? Reservation-based? Ministerial contacts?

How about all the above ?

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 30 Mar 2009 13:48

Brando wrote:So much for our great IT expertise and skills.

Our government can't even leverage skills that they have in abundance!

So what are the ITvity BRFites doing about it?

If you feel so strongly that India should be protected, and since you have the skills, why don;t you guys start a company/venture to address this issue.

Jamal K. Malik · Post by **Jamal K. Malik** » 30 Mar 2009 14:12

Reservation is only 22.5% till some time ago ,but unreserved have not done great jobs!!!

anupmisra wrote:
Brando wrote:So much for our great IT expertise and skills.

Our government can't even leverage skills that they have in abundance!
What are the GOI's hiring policies? Lowest bidder? Reservation-based? Ministerial contacts?

AmitR · Post by **AmitR** » 30 Mar 2009 14:17

abhischekcc wrote:
Brando wrote:So much for our great IT expertise and skills.

Our government can't even leverage skills that they have in abundance!
So what are the ITvity BRFites doing about it?

If you feel so strongly that India should be protected, and since you have the skills, why don;t you guys start a company/venture to address this issue.

Abhi, have a peek at our IT laws. If anyone of us indulges in hacking we will end up in jail.
Also, hacking is not like they show in Indian movies where Ajay Devgan thinks for 2 seconds and guesses the correct password. It takes very strong understanding of low level network layers, encryption, mathematics and patience to make a good hacker. Where are the colleges and universities in India that produce such high quality man-power with such advanced skills? Indian IT industry and education system is all about numbers and not quality. Companies charge upto $400 a day for consultancy from foreign clients and then pay the Indian workers a measly Rs. 30-40K per month while making them work like donkeys for 12-13 hours. Forget about these tired souls to think about anything else, they neither have the aptitude nor the skills to do anything else. India's IT superpower status is the figment of imagination of some BJP jingo during the shining India campaign which failed miserably.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 30 Mar 2009 14:20

sivabala wrote:Most of the Indian companies in computer technologies are in just database maintenance business. There is no noteworthy Indian company in internet security service. We don't even have good indigenous encryption technology. Our intelligence agencies cannot decrypt 128 bit encrypted communication. Almost for all wireless radio decryption our agencies rely on imported hardware. How can you expect our country to be proactive in this domain.

True. As for encryption technology, this is more in the domain of mathematicians than computer programmers. Guess which organization is the largest employer of mathematicians in the world?? Google Search

By the way, there are no noteworthy indian companies on the OS front either. Considering the # of DOO people there are, you don't find proportionate #s of Indian sounding names on either Linux or BSD code -- i.e. cutting edge stuff that people write in their spare time.

vipins · Post by **vipins** » 30 Mar 2009 14:30

Jamal K. Malik wrote:Reservation is only 22.5% till some time ago ,but unreserved have not done great jobs!!!

err..its around 50% and not including the PH n other vertical reservations..

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 30 Mar 2009 14:35

There is enough cryptographic and network level talent in India -- unfortunately most of it is employed in MNCs where Indians being the law abiding sorts just work for their honest bread.

Yes there are some who dont -- remember the Yahoo techie whom Yahoo taught ethical hacking and the use he put it to, but the avg Yindoo is not like that onlee.

There is also tons of stuff done at CDAC and CAIR.

IF GoI really wants security -- all they need to is pick up a phone and call few people -- they will have a kick ass team to deliver the best possible solution. This however needs two critical things
1) Will to do the right thing for India -- when was the last time that happened
2) Will to spend money on non glam Nat Sec projects and not dole to party members in the name of loan waivers

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 30 Mar 2009 14:44

it all started in 1980s when the then pm RG, initiated the IT dev. procedures as a future industry in India, the problem is that as time passed, netas forgot that every sector needs a political initiation to outclass itself.
in India's case, IT remained dominant growth sector while all other sectors were purely neglected the type of growth IT had seen.
even the IT sector was not spreaded in all spheres ,say,security,KPO etc, but remained only in services form, while it has a lot of potential, but only now the Indian IT cos are awakening and moving towards other applications
but the irony is recession which not only made IT suffer but also the largest no of layoffs are from it
at this time other sectors arent growing that much and could not make profits when there is recession elsewhere bcoz there is lack of infra, that was required to dominate other multinationals
all credit to netas, babus...

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 30 Mar 2009 15:05

AmitR wrote:Abhi, have a peek at our IT laws. If anyone of us indulges in hacking we will end up in jail.

Should this stop a patriotic hacker who hacks Chinese systems. Besides, what good is hacker if he cannot avoid the law on his own.

It takes very strong understanding of low level network layers, encryption, mathematics and patience to make a good hacker. Where are the colleges and universities in India that produce such high quality man-power with such advanced skills?

I don't know. Don't IITs and IISc produce enough good people? Or is India good only for producing MBAs?

Indian IT industry and education system is all about numbers and not quality. Companies charge upto $400 a day for consultancy from foreign clients and then pay the Indian workers a measly Rs. 30-40K per month while making them work like donkeys for 12-13 hours.

Measly 30k-40k

Forget about these tired souls to think about anything else, they neither have the aptitude nor the skills to do anything else. India's IT superpower status is the figment of imagination of some BJP jingo during the shining India campaign which failed miserably.

That's why we need a dedicated firm to tackle IT security issues in India.

AmitR · Post by **AmitR** » 30 Mar 2009 16:03

abhischekcc wrote: Should this stop a patriotic hacker who hacks Chinese systems. Besides, what good is hacker if he cannot avoid the law on his own.

Unfortunately that argument does not cut much ice. Dharmic country like India which does not even allow covert operations against it's enemies will not support hacking also. You may think that you are doing service to your nation but the babu in the MEA will think you are destroying foreign relations and ask IB to trace and sudue you. Hackers are not super humans and they can be tracked and traced albeit with some difficulty. How do you think the Chinese hacking racket was blown away.

abhischekcc wrote:I don't know. Don't IITs and IISc produce enough good people? Or is India good only for producing MBAs?

IIT's produce engineers but undergrads typically are jack of all trades master of none. This is the reason majority of them go to US for MS. But this field requires domain experts or varied disciplines who can remain at the cutting edge constantly. This is not something that you can do by copy pasting code from Google or reading 10 year old Java book. As hackers get smart the security systems also evolve.

abhischekcc wrote:Measly 30k-40k

Well, different folks different strokes. I have seen contractors working for as low as Rs 10k for which the service companies charge their clients 10 times over.

abhischekcc wrote:That's why we need a dedicated firm to tackle IT security issues in India.

And who do you think will be their client. ISI or CIA? They will need money to pay to their employees and lot of funding to sustain these operations under complete secrecy.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 30 Mar 2009 17:37

Unfortunately that argument does not cut much ice. Dharmic country like India which does not even allow covert operations against it's enemies will not support hacking also.

I have no compulsions about hacking. Unfortunately, I am not one myself.

And who do you think will be their client. ISI or CIA? They will need money to pay to their employees and lot of funding to sustain these operations under complete secrecy.

Do you think corporate espionage does not take place in India? It is one of the few industries in the world which NEVER has a recession. P0rn, alcohol, and drugs being the others.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 30 Mar 2009 19:24

A very good article on china-porki ties, explains a lot about cia as well, cant resist posting in full

China's support to Pakistan's jihadists

Manipal, India — After decades of denial, the U.S. military – though not yet the State Department – has begun to admit that the Pakistan military, a major “non-NATO ally,” is the source of much of the capability of the Taliban thugs that are now sending NATO into a panic in Afghanistan.

Individuals within the Pakistan military claim that no fewer than 30,000 jihadists are presently being trained by regular officers and army men, who are, of course, officially "on leave to visit family." Of the trainees, no fewer than 2,000 are being imparted proficiency in high explosives and in the commando-style operations that enabled a handful of operatives to hold off the Indian security establishment for three humiliating days in Mumbai from Nov. 26 to 28 last year.

The purpose of such assistance is to "ensure that Afghanistan, Kashmir and Central Asia emerge as allies of a rejuvenated Pakistan" and to see that "the Indian economic dream becomes a nightmare," the army sources say.

This second objective is of value to China, which is visibly uneasy at the accelerating pace of development in India, despite intense efforts by its communist allies in the ruling establishment to reverse economic reforms. It’s no wonder that almost all the sensitive communications links of the Pakistan army – including the unrecorded "ghost units" that guide terror operations – are provided by China.

Unless those in authority in Beijing are as credulous as their counterparts in the CIA and in the U.S. State Department – a difficult proposition to accept – the Chinese vendors of the communications, explosives and other lethal equipment that ultimately reaches jihadists in Afghanistan, India and elsewhere must be aware of the unconventional nature of the end-users of the goods and services they dispense.

An increase in terrorist activity in India would surely lead to a decline in that country's growth prospects. Therefore, if the activities of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence units cause a spike in terror activities in India, it is not sufficient reason for China to cut off its gifts to the army of force-multipliers that end up in jihadist hands.

It is not only in Pakistan that China has, in effect, become a reliable ally of what are euphemistically known as "unconventional forces." Equipment and services from China flood into states such as Sudan, Iran, Syria and Somalia. In none of these states are the authorities squeamish about separating regular operations from those conducted by terror groups.

During the years when the Taliban was in power in Afghanistan, China was among its biggest benefactors, together with Pakistan, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia.

Of course, in the cause of showering largesse on the Pakistan army, few can rival the United States. Days ago, U.S. President Barack Obama announced the gift of a fresh US$7.5 billion to Pakistan, supposedly to build schools, roads and other infrastructure.

What Obama apparently failed to pick up from his intelligence briefings was the fact that these schools, with their poisonous curricula and fanaticized staff, are the breeding grounds for jihad. Or that the Pakistan army has – according to information available even to the civilian government – diverted about 63 percent of the funds given to it by the United States "to fight terror" to operations that are India-specific, hardly a contribution to the War on Terror.

Until the toxic content is removed from school curricula in Pakistan; unless jihadist elements within the teaching community are weeded out and replaced with genuine moderates; and unless religious schools confine themselves to the training of imams rather than to seeding the entire Pakistan civil and military structure with their products, most assistance given to Pakistan is a contribution to jihad.

What the U.S. government should do is impose immediate travel restrictions and financial sanctions on individuals and entities that aid terrorists such as al-Qaida and the Taliban. It is ironic that the sons, daughters and relatives of the very military officers that are assisting the Taliban are teeming in U.S. campuses and corporations, courtesy of successive indulgent administrations.

Amazingly, the very "experts" who in the 1990s called for help to what became the Taliban, and who in the post-9/11 phase advised the defanging of the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan to benefit the Pakistan military, have remained the dominant voices in U.S. policy toward Afghanistan and Pakistan in both the George W. Bush and the Obama administrations. It appears that, in the wonderland of U.S. policy, nothing succeeds as well as failure.

The "new" policy announced by the Obama administration, unless accompanied by a push toward structural reforms in Pakistan's military and education system, will also end in failure. Not surprisingly, after Obama advisor Colin Powell and U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton generously gave their support to the "Punjabi plot" – the scheme of Pakistan army chief Ashfaq Kayani, Pakistan Muslim League (N) chief Nawaz Sharif and Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani to marginalize President Asif Ali Zardari – there was an immediate spike in terrorist activity on both sides of the Afghanistan-Pakistan border.

With cash from the United States and sophisticated equipment from China, the jihad-friendly Pakistan military is on a roll. Its allies in terror groups around the world will be delighted.

As for the rest, all they can do is brace themselves for the terror attacks that will follow the consistent China-U.S. policy of allowing the Pakistan army to continue unmolested on the jihadi path initiated by the late Islamist President Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq nearly four decades ago.

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 31 Mar 2009 12:45

AmitR wrote:
Unfortunately that argument does not cut much ice. Dharmic country like India which does not even allow covert operations against it's enemies will not support hacking also. You may think that you are doing service to your nation but the babu in the MEA will think you are destroying foreign relations and ask IB to trace and sudue you. Hackers are not super humans and they can be tracked and traced albeit with some difficulty. How do you think the Chinese hacking racket was blown away.

This argument is bull. How many terrorists have used the internet to sent letters of acknowledgment for terrorist attacks within india ? Some guy in Mumbai even used somebody's wifi network to send a terror acknowledgment to news channels. India is not Europe or America where they track you down and sue you for millions. How many people use pirated software in India ? How many people download illegal software in India through P2P ? Both these activities are illegal in India, how many people do you know who have been arrested for these crimes ? Not even 0.0001% of the those engaging in these crimes.

There is no excuse for Indian's not being able to penetrate every single Chinese computer in the world if we put our minds to it. No police or MEA guy can do ANYTHING. They are struggling to stop terrorists who cross over from Pakistan with hundreds or rounds of ammunition and rocket launchers, grenades etc. Do you think they can stop somebody whose only possession is knowledge and skills ?? Impossible!

AmitR wrote:
IIT's produce engineers but undergrads typically are jack of all trades master of none. This is the reason majority of them go to US for MS. But this field requires domain experts or varied disciplines who can remain at the cutting edge constantly. This is not something that you can do by copy pasting code from Google or reading 10 year old Java book. As hackers get smart the security systems also evolve.

Again I beg to differ.
Teenagers who cant do calculus and dont know the difference between converge and divergence of mathematical functions are able to hack complex system. This has been proven true numerous times in various countries. IIT has nothing to do with it nor does any formal education. There was even an Indian teenager who became a white hat and wrote a couple of books about it, as I remember. He was not IITian nor did he have an engineering degree.

All this BS about expert knowledge and mathematical skills are merely excuses when you consider it realistically. The main thing is interest and aptitude. Those people who have aptitude are simply not interested. There is no interest in doing things which dont provide some kind of monetary or academic results. People are too busy with exams and deadlines etc to invest time and effort into defending their country in any way they can.

These Chinese "patriotic" hackers are not paid by the PLA or some such government. These guys are average chinese guys doing their 9-5 and hacking as a hobby and as some patriotic duty. They do it because they can. A few years back these guys even Challenged US hackers by attacking US corporate networks in massive DDoS attacks and the Americans responded vise versa until they both mutually decided to back off as governments started to intervene.

girish.r · Post by **girish.r** » 31 Mar 2009 13:51

There is no excuse for Indian's not being able to penetrate every single Chinese computer in the world if we put our minds to it.

Hi Brando,

Just food for thought.....What makes one feel Indians are not already doing it?

Just because it cant be detected, does not mean it is not happening.

Again I beg to differ.
Teenagers who cant do calculus and dont know the difference between converge and divergence of mathematical functions are able to hack complex system. This has been proven true numerous times in various countries. IIT has nothing to do with it nor does any formal education. There was even an Indian teenager who became a white hat and wrote a couple of books about it, as I remember. He was not IITian nor did he have an engineering degree.

I hope you are not referring to A Faaadiaaa. First book was just a copy from german web site containing sample codes and attack methodologies.

Back to the thread......

Regards

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 31 Mar 2009 14:24

Probably OT but still FWIW
Chinese and (probably American) government actively supports "nationalist" hackers. You just need to compare official sites of the respective countires to see how much effort they put into their IT.

There are a few Indian hacking groups, but I don't know if they are supported by Indian govt or not.

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 31 Mar 2009 15:16

girish.r wrote:[
Just food for thought.....What makes one feel Indians are not already doing it?
Just because it cant be detected, does not mean it is not happening.

True. But the proof is in the pudding. And so far there is no pudding!

girish.r wrote: I hope you are not referring to A Faaadiaaa. First book was just a copy from german web site containing sample codes and attack methodologies.

That maybe so, maybe Indians just arent cut out to be crackers and hackers but it doesnt negate my point that IIT and engineering degrees or formal education have no real bearing on the ability of people to penetrate secure systems.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 31 Mar 2009 20:47

These Chinese "patriotic" hackers are not paid by the PLA or some such government. These guys are average chinese guys doing their 9-5 and hacking as a hobby and as some patriotic duty. They do it because they can. A few years back these guys even Challenged US hackers by attacking US corporate networks in massive DDoS attacks and the Americans responded vise versa until they both mutually decided to back off as governments started to intervene.

Brando sir , They might not be paid on a regular basis by PLA or chinese govt. but they are surely organised by them.I cannot confirm it but I read somewhere that china has more than one hundred thousand hackers at its command(I am serious).They might not be paid or be full time employees but china can summon their services whenever needed.

Also China maintains a firewall which is known popularly as "Great firewall of China" and officially known as "Golden Shield Project" for monitoring and restricting internet traffic coming in and out of china.The people who are employed in this project are some sort of internet police.They can also be used for mounting cyber attacks on other nations.

Actually Chinese have working for quite some time to increase their capabilities in information warfare domain(cyber warfare and cyber espionage is a part of information warfare).They are doing this because they know they cannot beat US in open combat.Hence they need assymetric capabilities to inflict damage on US and cyber warfare/espionage is the most effective and cheapest way to fight US.Why dispatch a bomber to destroy the power plant when you can use the internet to shut down the power grid(Many experts believe that they have this capability now).All you need is a laptop and an internet connection.

These kind of attacks are very cheap,hard to defend against and the victim will not be able to trace the perpetrator easily.The ultimate attack.

Although America is the most obvious target of these attacks since China sees them as their primary rival and because america is the most wired society , other countries are at risk too.

By the way china is using these attacks not only to gain a military advantage over its competitors but also for industrial and corporate advantage.For eg. through industrial espionage using cyber means they have been trying to steal technology from the western nations without bearing any costs for developing them.

Believe me or not chinese are working to a plan and they are very focussed on achieving requisite superiority in this field.They have even developed doctrines for using cyber attacks as mode of warfare.You might even find papers and documents written by senior defense officials on internet if you google for them.If I get any I will post it here.Meanwhile India is sleeping and as a result far behind china in developing cyber warfare capabilities(Please don't suggest that there is some secret project going on in DRDO or something like that).You can actually sense the vulnerability when you step in any govt. office and see the outdated systems being used by the employees which probably haven't been patched for years.This gap between chinese and indian capabilities is increasing by the day and if indian establishment doesn't wake the chinese will soon have the capability to launch a cyber 1962.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 31 Mar 2009 21:00

Just go through this blog and you will start understanding the capabilities and intentions of chinese hackers.

http://www.thedarkvisitor.com/

Also in the video given below just observe the behaviour of the chinese hacker.He is openly saying that he carried out attacks.In any other country such people would remain anonymous.The fact that he is giving interviews boldly show the backing of chinese govt.This video also has rumored description of chinese capability to shut down power grids.

http://www.thedarkvisitor.com/category/ ... ker-video/

An instance of chinese hackers conducting corporate espionage against an Indian company.

http://www.thedarkvisitor.com/2008/12/c ... tech-data/

Other cyber attacks/espionage cases against India

http://www.thedarkvisitor.com/category/india-attacks/

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 31 Mar 2009 21:04

And by the way todays script kiddies are tomorrow's black hats.So don't take even these script kiddies lightly.(someone earlier was disparaging chinese hackers)

One of the major rules of warfare is never underestimate your enemies especially if the enemy is chinese.

bahdada · Post by **bahdada** » 31 Mar 2009 23:47

Report: Chinese Develop Special "Kill Weapon" to Destroy U.S. Aircraft Carriers
https://www.usni.org/forthemedia/ChineseKillWeapon.asp
Advanced missile poses substantial new threat for U.S. Navy

U. S. Naval Institute
March 31, 2009

With tensions already rising due to the Chinese navy becoming more aggressive in asserting its territorial claims in the South China Sea, the U.S. Navy seems to have yet another reason to be deeply concerned.

After years of conjecture, details have begun to emerge of a "kill weapon" developed by the Chinese to target and destroy U.S. aircraft carriers.

First posted on a Chinese blog viewed as credible by military analysts and then translated by the naval affairs blog Information Dissemination, a recent report provides a description of an anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM) that can strike carriers and other U.S. vessels at a range of 2000km.

The range of the modified Dong Feng 21 missile is significant in that it covers the areas that are likely hot zones for future confrontations between U.S. and Chinese surface forces.

The size of the missile enables it to carry a warhead big enough to inflict significant damage on a large vessel, providing the Chinese the capability of destroying a U.S. supercarrier in one strike.

Because the missile employs a complex guidance system, low radar signature and a maneuverability that makes its flight path unpredictable, the odds that it can evade tracking systems to reach its target are increased. It is estimated that the missile can travel at mach 10 and reach its maximum range of 2000km in less than 12 minutes.

Supporting the missile is a network of satellites, radar and unmanned aerial vehicles that can locate U.S. ships and then guide the weapon, enabling it to hit moving targets.

The ASBM is said to be a modified DF-21

While the ASBM has been a topic of discussion within national defense circles for quite some time, the fact that information is now coming from Chinese sources indicates that the weapon system is operational. The Chinese rarely mention weapons projects unless they are well beyond the test stages.

If operational as is believed, the system marks the first time a ballistic missile has been successfully developed to attack vessels at sea. Ships currently have no defense against a ballistic missile attack.

Along with the Chinese naval build-up, U.S. Navy officials appear to view the development of the anti-ship ballistic missile as a tangible threat.

After spending the last decade placing an emphasis on building a fleet that could operate in shallow waters near coastlines, the U.S. Navy seems to have quickly changed its strategy over the past several months to focus on improving the capabilities of its deep sea fleet and developing anti-ballistic defenses.

As analyst Raymond Pritchett notes in a post on the U.S. Naval Institute blog:

"The Navy's reaction is telling, because it essentially equals a radical change in direction based on information that has created a panic inside the bubble. For a major military service to panic due to a new weapon system, clearly a mission kill weapon system, either suggests the threat is legitimate or the leadership of the Navy is legitimately unqualified. There really aren't many gray spaces in evaluating the reaction by the Navy…the data tends to support the legitimacy of the threat."

In recent years, China has been expanding its navy to presumably better exert itself in disputed maritime regions. A recent show of strength in early March led to a confrontation with an unarmed U.S. ship in international waters.

kobe · Post by **kobe** » 01 Apr 2009 00:20

This is off-topic education for members who are posting uninitiated comments regarding chinese hackers.

most of the chinese small and medium size companies are largely made up of "front companies". the companies are started by relatives or friends of someone in the "loop" and run with the blessings of the local party offices. this is a strict communist country where being entrepreneur is akin to being a criminal.

For example: list of top 50 chinese richest people share the list of top 50 most wanted
(there is no real way of making large amount of money without breaking the law in china)

chinese pseudo-private companies are routinely exporting umbrellas, shoes, hats, etc to african and south american countries, "executives" of these companies are mid-level military officers (i know of a submarine captain who's real job was to "facilitate" export licenses for above mentioned trinckets). in such an organization there is hardly any checks and balances. no one knows the profit margin (if there is any) as most of the money is made by payoffs.

another example is a chinese pseudo-private software company based in shenzhen whose officers were all relatives of the mayor. since they did not know how to really run the company, they hired a foreigner (someone i know) to run the daily operations, while the "executives" were busy wining and dining potential customers in expensive restaurants and cutting dubious deals.

among such private industry atmosphere, there are many opportunities for government entities to set up fake companies full of software engineers whose jobs would be "monitoring" the internet to keep chinese society immune from the western vices (mainly religious propaganda). and while doing that why not monitor (aka spy on) anything else that is on internet.

such organizations are built behind multiple smoke screens with dual purpose agenda.
as most of the chinese youth are fully brainwashed by the "liberation of tibet" and "suicidal criminals of falun-dafa" stories over the years, there would be no shortage of "paid volunteers" at universities and other organizations to monitor the internet for dalai lama's speeches etc, and in doing so go to any length and break any law as long as it is helping the motherland.

Chinese Defector

Joining the Communist Party

Monitoring People

View From Falun-dafa

High-Tech Plans to Track People

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 01 Apr 2009 01:12

kobe, that post is pretty close to reality, and this is where our bureaucracy lacks in-patriotism,
remember the satyam-worldbank case? no one saved it
as far as china is concerned ,there the system works for the country, in India it works for its own ideology,not pro nation., take for example in this thread alone, while we are headbanging on issues like govt's role/preparation for cyber warfare , % of reservation in IITs, etc.., there the chinese are finding ways to finish off u.s. pacific fleet.,

imo there is difference in direction in both the countries' system, and where chinese lead ,and we have to accept it (and adapt) sooner or later..

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 07 Apr 2009 05:25

was looking for something else but came across this interesting article with the picture of a J-14 mockup and the last page has a pressure distribution model picture of the J-14..something to look out for.

Aviapedia forum link

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 07 Apr 2009 08:17

kartik saab, which mock-up are you talking about.
the mat black one on page 2 is the japanese one. this one http://www.aviapedia.com/forum/attachme ... 1189702621
on page 1 is a well known hoax.

other than the CCTV frame capture you referred to, we have only 2-3 wind tunnel models from the various institutes to go by till date.

Ameet · Post by **Ameet** » 08 Apr 2009 19:14

Cyberspies penetrate US electrical grid

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090408/us_ ... attack_usa

The spies came from China, Russia and other countries, and were believed to be on a mission to navigate the U.S. electrical system and its controls, the newspaper said, citing current and former U.S. national security officials.

"There are intrusions, and they are growing," the former official told the paper, referring to electrical systems. "There were a lot last year."

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 08 Apr 2009 21:45

Rahul M wrote:kartik saab, which mock-up are you talking about.
the mat black one on page 2 is the japanese one. this one http://www.aviapedia.com/forum/attachme ... 1189702621
on page 1 is a well known hoax.

other than the CCTV frame capture you referred to, we have only 2-3 wind tunnel models from the various institutes to go by till date.

hey Rahul, I'm not a saab at all..you can just call me Kartik. and thanks to the clarification on the page1 mockup..reading the article made had me think that it was a real prototype. so there is no definitive info on the J-XX either, is there ?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 08 Apr 2009 21:47

nope, the next expected a/c from the chinese stable is supposedly a 'stealthy' twin engined J-10.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 08 Apr 2009 21:52

Rahul M wrote:nope, the next expected a/c from the chinese stable is supposedly a 'stealthy' twin engined J-10.

given that they're already test flying the J-10B variant with the new radome, DSI intakes and some avionics improvements, I wouldn't put it past them to be able to get a modified twin engined J-10 up and flying within a few years.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 09 Apr 2009 08:12

China adds precision strike to capabilities

kobe · Post by **kobe** » 09 Apr 2009 11:11

chinese (green) chai waala has told me that china will get very aggressive towards taiwan after the olympics. they are prepared to take taiwan at any cost. and now key nations being at their most weak time in ages (usa tied up with two wars with worsening economy, europeans bickering among themselves, and japanese not able to do much even to north koreans),

although china can not mount an invasion across the taiwan straits, they intend to force the taiwanese into surrender by launching several hundred missiles at the expense of tens of thousands of taiwanese lives followed by air-borne and sea-borne landings.

chine does see india as a force to reckon with but they have found an willing servant in pakistan to keep india busy across the border.

it is in india's best interest to annihilate pakistan and then stare the chinese in the eyes, there is no other option.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 09 Apr 2009 18:19

Three decades after the Sino-Vietnamese War

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 09 Apr 2009 22:49

Chinese Su-27s Die Of Old Age

April 7, 2009: The Chinese Air Force is retiring its first Su-27 fighters, or at least the airframes. These were bought in the early 1990s, but 24 of them have reached their service life of 5,000 flight hours. This is a limitation all aircraft have, although it can often be extended. The F-16, for example, had a service life of 4,000 flight hours, but through the replacement of some airframe components, that was extended to 8,000 hours. The U.S. A-10 also had its service life extended from 8,000 to 28,000 hours. Same deal with the B-52, which had its useful life more than doubled, via several refurbishments, to 28,000 hours.

Engines, electronics and other components have different service lives. So these retired Su-27s are stripped of most components, for reuse as spare parts for other aircraft. Russian warplanes have, historically, had short service lives. This includes all components, especially engines. The MiG-29 was designed to last only 2,500 hours in the air. A refurbishment program has since been developed to extend that to 4,000 hours.

The MiG-29 was a watershed design for the Russians in the 1970s, who were beginning to build more sturdy aircraft on the Western model. Thus the Su-27s, which were designed a few years after the MiG-29, had the longer, for Russian aircraft, service life of 5,000 hours. Before that, most Russian aircraft were only good for 2-3,000 flight hours.

The Chinese Su-27s, which normally have two pilots assigned (a common practice worldwide) apparently allowed each pilot to get 120-130 hours a year in the air. That's less than Western pilots get, but twice what pilots used to get in communist countries. That's because these nations had Russian aircraft that would be quickly worn out if you allowed the pilots to fly them as much as their Western counterparts. But the Russians saw the error of their ways before the end of the Cold War, but not in time to re-equip their air force with pilots trained to a Western standard.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htatri ... 90407.aspx

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 09 Apr 2009 22:50

The Chinese Su-27s, which normally have two pilots assigned (a common practice worldwide) apparently allowed each pilot to get 120-130 hours a year in the air.

and this are their most highly trained pilots IIRC.

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 09 Apr 2009 23:32

Rahul M wrote:
The Chinese Su-27s, which normally have two pilots assigned (a common practice worldwide) apparently allowed each pilot to get 120-130 hours a year in the air.
and this are their most highly trained pilots IIRC.

Aren't Indian MiG-29s as old as Chinese Su-27s ?? And the article speaks about the service life of MiG 29s as 4000 at max. The Chinese seem to have ended the service life of Su-27s. What about Indian Mig-29s?? How many flight hours would they have completed ??