Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 13 Mar 2009 01:38

The head of operations of NSG was speaking live just after the event about Gajendar singh's death.

He made it down all right and was leading a line of commando's down a alley (or staircase) a grenade was hurled towards them; Gajendar being the first person took the burnt but kept pressing forward thus enabling his mates to get into position and cover after disembarkation.

DDM seems to be giving spin here.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 13 Mar 2009 04:33

Anujan wrote:This is regarding Havildar Gajender Singh
Zee news says
The force will induct light firearms and special grenades to equip its heliborne commandos as during the Mumbai strikes the force lost one of its black cats, Havildar Gajender Singh, while he was coming down from a helicopter.
Gives an impression as though it was an accident during insertion.

IE Says
"While clearing the fourth floor of the Jewish residential complex, Singh spotted a terrorist fleeing into a room and engaged him by fire. As he closed on the militant, he was hit by grenade splinters unmindful of the injuries, he moved forward and then came under a hail of bullets," another official said.
Doesnt look like an accident during insertion. Methinks the current weapons were too cumbersome to fire while slithering down. Any more explanations ?

DDM at it's best! Gajender Singh slithered down all right....we all saw in on live TV (he was the lead man down). While descending a staircase he got hit by a grenade and took the blast and later succumbed to his injuries.

You cannot fire while slithering down regardless of what weapons you have (MP5 is designed for close combat....not really cumbersome by any means) - it is a vulnerable position hence, covering fire was given by NSG deployed in surrounding houses. The problem is our DDM and idiots like Barkha and her pals who were gleefully showing the insertion on live TV as if it was some goddamn movie. The terrorists were alerted and were waiting in ambush leading to Gajender Singh's death. For his death I squarely blame our media and our reporters who have the intellect and maturity of rotting carcasses

. People might argue that British media did the same during Op.Nimrod but dont forget that the bad guys in Op.Nimrod were not monitoring TV channels, did not have live sat links with their controllers and were rank amateurs at best as compared to the Mumbai terrorists.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 15 Mar 2009 06:04

Mumbai attack suspect remorseful, says report

sum · Post by **sum** » 15 Mar 2009 10:38

BS article only meant for the WKKs...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Mar 2009 00:31

Already a book!!!

AGENDA | Sunday, March 15, 2009 | Email | Print |

Mumbai revisited

An early insight into the Mumbai attack, 26/11 lacks depth of content and analysis but makes up with its crispness and structure, writes Rajesh Singh

26/11: Mumbai Attacked
Edited by: Harinder Baweja
Publisher :Roli Books
Price: Rs 295

November 26, 2008 has become a metaphor for a terror war on India. Although the country has faced several militant strikes on its soil, nothing compared with the intensity and tragic drama that surrounded the Mumbai attack, helped in no measure by the 24-hour live telecast of the sordid event on various television channels. While telecasters (and the print media) continued with the ‘story’ days after the embers died, it was only a matter of time before the publishing industry woke up to the ‘opportunities’. So, we have a compact 200-plus page book.

Admittedly, with the media onslaught on our minds, there is little in the public domain that any information-seeking person does not know about the incident. It would therefore be futile to expect some earth-shattering revelation in this book, though there are certain passages that contain information not widely known. What it does — and I suppose that was the intention — is to put the complicity of the attack in perspective, demystify steps that led to the event and recount the valiance of our police and military forces in the face of severe handicaps.

Since this book has appeared barely three months after the attack, it naturally lacks depth of content and analysis. Erudition is not what one can find in it. But these limitations are more than made up by the crispness and structure. Apart from Harinder there are seven contributors to the book, most of them journalists. Each has a ‘scene of action’; for instance, Rahul Shivshankar recounts the Nariman House tragedy, George Koshy replays the carnage at the CST railway station and Ashish Khaitan writes about the dark hours at the Taj and the Trident.

The book reads like a pot-boiler, an unputdownable thriller. All it needs is a little revamp by Frederick Forsyth to convert it into an international bestseller. Who knows, some day an author may use the Mumbai horror as a backdrop for his creation! With the Cold War now consigned to history’s dustbin, writers have been feeding off contemporary issues — and nothing is more contemporary than terrorism.

26/11 is embellished by a piece by former Mumbai Police Commissioner JF Ribeiro, who argues for “operational independence without political intervention” for our security forces. This has been his stated position since retirement, but even in service he opposed political interference. Ribeiro is among a handful of professionals who have, both in and out of service, strongly advocated professionalising the forces. The attack is a grim reminder of that need. While he salutes the courage of Mumbai policemen such as Assistant Sub-Inspector Tukaram Omble, the former police chief says, “The Mumbai Police and the police in other cities and States of India are not trained or prepared to face a contingency of this magnitude.” He adds that a commando force set up in Mumbai by a Police Commissioner to handle suicide attacks was disbanded by his successor “on unexplained grounds.” Ribeiro says things could have been handled better had that force been in place.

The former police chief points to the chaos and confusion that followed the attacks, with multiple security agencies in charge often working in an uncoordinated manner. Advocating a single authority in such situations, he says the power should be vested in the uniformed forces, and not a bureaucrat.

Harinder rounds up with a provocatively titled chapter, “Why India will be Hit Again”. There are several reasons for that “why”. Read the book to make sense of the attack.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 17 Mar 2009 04:48

After HC calls 26/11 panel a joke, Governor lauds it

Three days after the Bombay High Court lashed out at the Government for creating the 66-member State Security Councilon 26/11 saying it was “a joke” and would be “unmanageable”, Governor S C Jamir referred to the committee and praised the government for its “prompt” response in his address to the joint session of both houses of legislature on the opening day of the budget session on Monday.
...

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 17 Mar 2009 18:47

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fo ... oksa&sid=1

Has anyone read the book?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Mar 2009 22:36

I posted a book review two posts before this!

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 19 Mar 2009 03:03

Finally irrefutable proof that Havaldar Gajender Singh's death was due to our own goddamn idiotic stupid juvenile and naive media for whom ethics is only a word in the dictionary. Barkha and her ilk need to be publicly shamed but no, we will probably shower them with Bharat Ratnas, being the spineless 'Gandhian' nation that we are! Who needs enemies when such traitors are present within our country.

The following is from Harinder Baweja's book.

15 men have climbed down on your building

28 November, 7.23 am, Chabad House

[The voice goes into consultation with other voices in the room. Some other voice now takes over the phone.]

Handler: Salaam ailekum.

Terrorist: Wailekum as-salaam.

Handler: Kya haal chaal hai pasha? (How are you doing pasha --[a term of endearment]?)

Terrorist: Mere khayal se team utaar di gayi hai (I think the team has got off).

Handler: Aapke chhat par pandrah bande abhi utre hain helicopter se (Fifteen men have climbed down on your rooftop right now). (How would have the Pakistani handler known, if the media had not been blabbing away like half-wits showing the entire heli drop on live TV?!@!#@!)

Terrorist: Khidkiyon ke saamne bhi kuchh khade hain (They are standing in front of the windows as well).

Handler: Kya keh rahe hain? Aapko nazar aa raha hai kuch udhar? (What are you saying? Can you see anything there?)

Terrorist: Saamne kuchh firing ho rahi hai (They are firing in the front).

Handler: Aapke oopar se unhe neeche aana hai. Aapne seedhiyon par aisi position banani hai ki aate hi aap unhe gher lein: unhe seedhiyon se utarna hai neeche. Lekin aisi position banaye ki unke oopar aane se pehle aap grenade feke. Aap aisi position banaye ki matlab kamre mein rahein lekin jo seedhi hai na. Achha, aapko daaye baaye koi fauji nazar aa raha hai? (They have to climb down to reach you. Take such positions on the staircase so you can corner them as soon as they come: they will have to get down from the stairs. But you throw grenades before they come. You take such a position, you stay in the room but the stairs. Listen, can you see any Army personnel to your right and left?) (Thank you Barkha Dutt and NDTV! I hope it feels really great you bi**h for causing deaths of our soldiers in Kargil and Mumbai!)

Terrorist: Hamare saamne saaf nazar aa rahe, khidkiyon mein baithe hain (We can see them clearly in the front, sitting in the windows).

Handler: Maaro, fire karo, burst maaro. Achha, baat suno, aap abhi kamre mein ho na, aap fire karo. Ek banda bahar darwaje ke paas position leke rakhe, ek andar se fire kare (Hit them, fire, open burst fire. Ok, listen, just fire from the room. Let one person take position by the door and you fire from inside).

Terrorist: Lekin hamara aage ka kamra damage ho gaya hai. Hamare paas position nahi baachti hai (But the room in front of us is damaged. We don't have a position left).

Handler: Lekin aapko woh nazar aa rahe hain. Kyunki jaise hi unhone aapko dekh liya unhone aap par fire shuru kar dena hai (But you can see them. Because if they see you, they too will start firing immediately).

Terrorist: To issi liye keh raha hun ki oopar chhat par jayein aur wahan ladayi kare (That's why I'm saying, we should go to the roof and fight there).

Handler: Aapne oopar nahi chadna hai. Do baatein yaad rakhni hain: number ek, jo sniper baithe huye hai na khidkiyon mein, jahan se mauka mil gaya wahan se inhe fire karna hai; doosra, jo log upar utre hai, pandrah log helicopter se, woh aapki taraf aa rahe hain. Unpar grenade feke (No, you do not have to climb up. Remember two things: one, as soon as you get the chance, fire at the snipers in the window; two, the fifteen people who have got off the helicopter are coming towards you. You have to throw grenades at them).

Terrorist: Hamare paas grenade sirf chaar bache hain (We have only four grenades left).

Handler: Achha, aap log apni positioning bana lein aur shuru ho jayein (Ok, you take your positions and begin).

Terrorist: Positioning mujhe samajh nahi aa rahi ki kaise banani hai (I cannot understand which positions to take).

Handler: Seedhiyan corner mein hai na pasha? (The stairs are in the corner, aren't they?)

Terrorist: Haan ji, ek side mein hain (Yes, they are on one side).

Handler: To ek banda seedhiyon ko cover kare aur doosra cross baithe; jaise maine shaam ko samjhaya tha. Jaise koi agar neeche aata hai to dono taraf se ghir jaaye. (So one of you has to cover the steps and the other has to sit across; the way I had explained it in the evening. So that if someone comes down, he is surrounded on both sides.)

Terrorist: Lekin woh agar grenade fekte hain to hamare paas grenade se bachne ke liye aad nahi hai. (But if he throws a grenade, we do not have any cover to protect ourselves.)

Handler: Meri baat suno pasha. Agar aap deewar se chipak kar khade ho jaate ho, aur agar grenade fekte to kya aap tak aa sakega? (Listen to me, pasha. If you stick to the wall, can the grenade reach you?)

Terrorist: Deewar maine bataya na (I told you about the wall).

Handler: Achha aapke paas aur kya hai -- koi sofa, furniture ya foam ka gadda? (Ok, what else do you have -- any sofa, furniture, or foam mattress?)

Terrorist: Haan, foam ka gadda hai, ek minute (Yes, there is a foam mattress, one minute). [Another man comes on the phone.]

Handler: Aap ek kaam karein. Aap grenade fekte hue neeche utarna shuru karein (You do this. While throwing grenades, you start climbing down).

Terrorist: Hamare paas grenade nahi hai (We don't have grenades).

Handler: Do to bache hai na? Woh istemal karein aur neeche wali manzil mein chale jaayein (You have at least two left, don't you? Use those and go to the floor below).

Terrorist: Hum darwaze ke peechhe chhup jaayein aur jaise hi woh andar aaye to hum firing karein? (Should we hide behind the door, and the moment they come, should we fire?)

Handler: Aap alag alag chhup sakte hain? (Can you hide at different places?)
[Another man takes the phone.]

Handler: Aap ek kaam karein. Aap chhat ki taraf chalein; grenade feke aur unki taraf fire karein. Woh aap par fire kare isse pehle aap unpar fire kare. Aap Bismillah karein (You do this. Go towards the roof, throw the grenade at them; and fire at them before they can fire at you. Do this now, in the name of Allah).

Terrorist: Theek hai, ja rahe hain Allah ka naam leke (Okay, we will go, remembering the name of Allah).

Handler: Bismillah-e-Rehman-e-rahim (In the name of Allah, most Gracious, most Compassionate).

Excerpted from 26/11 Mumbai Attacked, Edited by Harinder Baweja, Roli Books, 2009, with the publisher's kind permission.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 19 Mar 2009 07:59

India needs to prepare for more ground level intelligence among the Muslim informers to stop the future attacks. I would suggest that all the cars coming into the main cities be checked for their registration. If they come from outside they be immeidately recorded. Better keep cameras here and there to follow these guys. If India is not watching next group can attack again. Throw all those RTOs who take money and give registration for anyone without proper registrations. There should be a better check out of these things and also all the hotels and residence areas of Muslims need to be regularly watched now to see new comers with some informers from among Muslim communities.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 23 Mar 2009 06:55

Lashkar celebrated Mumbai attack: US report

The Lashkar-e-Tayybea rejoiced after staging the 26/11 Mumbai carnage, an article in the March edition of Sentinel, a journal brought out by the Combating Terrorism Centre of the US military academy at West Point, has revealed.

“They (Lashkar/ Jamaat-ud-Dawa) apparently offered nawafil shukrana (special prayers) to celebrate their victory,” writers Farhana Ali and Mohammed Shehzad said in their piece.

http://www.ctc.usma.edu/sentinel/CTCSen ... l2Iss3.pdf

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 23 Mar 2009 07:07

Gerard wrote:Lashkar celebrated Mumbai attack: US report
The Lashkar-e-Tayybea rejoiced after staging the 26/11 Mumbai carnage, an article in the March edition of Sentinel, a journal brought out by the Combating Terrorism Centre of the US military academy at West Point, has revealed.

“They (Lashkar/ Jamaat-ud-Dawa) apparently offered nawafil shukrana (special prayers) to celebrate their victory,” writers Farhana Ali and Mohammed Shehzad said in their piece.
http://www.ctc.usma.edu/sentinel/CTCSen ... l2Iss3.pdf

Thats putting it mildly. Entire TSP celebrated the Mumbai 'victory'; and it was a huge one for them however perverted it might sound; both the attack, and the aftermath. While the rest of the word talks about TSP's impending demise, they are safe and secure in their neurotic desire that us SDREs cannot get ahead and they can bust our bubble at any time of their choosing. The UPA traitors forcing IPL out instead of accommodating some kind of a compromise with BCCI is another tactical victory for TSP. We are both victims onlee, we are both same onlee, our destinies are linked onlee and other equal equal crap have been reinforced. TSP is a failed state, my foot.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Mar 2009 22:47

Can someone put up a website with all this info on it? Maybe use a free site for now.

Hiding it in this thread doesnt do justice to the effort in gathering it.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 25 Mar 2009 23:01

ramana wrote:Can someone put up a website with all this info on it? Maybe use a free site for now.

Hiding it in this thread doesnt do justice to the effort in gathering it.

Can we start a blog?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 25 Mar 2009 23:12

Gerard wrote:Mumbai attack suspect remorseful, says report

Pakistani national Mohammed Ajmal Amir Iman, also known as Kasab, said his father forced him to join a hard-line Islamist commando unit to earn money for the family

THIS is a problem created by Islam, cannot be used as an excuse. Muslims need to take care of these yahoos. It is their responsibility since it is within their religion.

IF they cannot - which seems to be the case at least in pakistan - then all other nations need to take care of it (including Japan and Australia). China is exempt - they belong to Pluto.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 30 Mar 2009 21:34

Lawyer named for Mumbai suspect

Anjali Waghmare has been named to fight Qasab's case who is charged with murder and "waging war" against India.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Mar 2009 22:30

Dilbu wrote:
ramana wrote:Can someone put up a website with all this info on it? Maybe use a free site for now.

Hiding it in this thread doesnt do justice to the effort in gathering it.
Can we start a blog?

Whatever but do get started ASAP!

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 31 Mar 2009 04:28

Anjali Waghmare withdraws from Kasab's case

Earlier, suspected Shiv Sena activists attacked the residence of Anjali Waghmare. Protesters numbering about 50 raised slogans and pelted stones at the lawyer's residence located in Warli area of central Mumbai late on Monday night.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 01 Apr 2009 17:24

shiv sena is being very stupid in preventing this case progressing properly under the law

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Apr 2009 17:29

Gerard wrote:Anjali Waghmare withdraws from Kasab's case
Earlier, suspected Shiv Sena activists attacked the residence of Anjali Waghmare. Protesters numbering about 50 raised slogans and pelted stones at the lawyer's residence located in Warli area of central Mumbai late on Monday night.

The Shiv Sena have always been model upholders of the law and women's rights.

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 01 Apr 2009 17:34

^^^
She is going to remain as his lawyer - been provided with Z category security

Almost makes one wonder on whose side these SS goons are

Said she dialled 100 even as those idiots were heckling her - didn't help

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 01 Apr 2009 17:41

Does anyone know when these transcripts between the handlers and the terrorists gathered? Was it in near real time as the attack took place or were they gifted to us by the FBI? In either case, why wasnt any attempt made to disrupt the communications?

Apologies if it was already answered...

AjayKK · Post by **AjayKK** » 01 Apr 2009 18:13

Posted without comment.

‘How can policeman’s wife defend Qasab?’

26/11 hero Tukaram Omble’s angry brother Eknath was the first to reach Anjali Waghmare’s house and land a kick on her door during Monday’s protest

On Monday night, when an angry mob marched to the home of Anjali Waghmare, the advocate appointed to defend 26/11 terrorist Ajmal Qasab, the person at the forefront of the protest was Eknath Omble, brother of policeman Tukaram Omble, who died while capturing Qasab alive in the wee hours of November 27, 2008.

Omble was the first person to reach Waghmare’s home at the police quarters in Worli. He was also the first to land a kick on her door. “I cannot bear to think that anyone can come forward to defend Qasab, that too a policeman’s wife. My brother died while arresting Qasab. He is the pride of the Mumbai Police,” said Omble,

http://mumbaimirror.com/article/2/20090 ... 80%99.html

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 01 Apr 2009 18:51

Now people want to make a mockery of Indian law and make it all look as bad as in TSP cuckooland.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 01 Apr 2009 18:52

She did not "come forward"... She was appointed by the court because SOMEONE has to defend the guy in order for the trial to proceed.

The morons of the Shiv Sena who did this are undermining the country's standing, and that of its judiciary. Our legal system despite its many drawbacks is respected worldwide for its adherence to the constitution, due process and human rights. Using violence to attempt to prevent this in no way helps the country. The psychopath Qasab needs to be tried if he is to be convicted and executed. It is not a case of just hanging the guy, even though there is nothing left to "prove" as such.

Think of the implications for stuff like extradition. Imagine if a terrorist murders people and escapes to, say, Portugal.... it is difficult enough to secure extradition. Incidents like this make the situation worse and complicates the lives of every one.

And what of Anjali, the poor lawyer? I saw a picture of her holding her head in tears and covering her eyes with a handkerchief? What did she do to deserve what the Shiv Sena did?

What they have done is indefensible, and these monkeys do not represent Hindus any more than a rabid dog represents dogs in general. They would have done far more for India if they had simply made a statement saying they uphold the right of this murderous terrorist to have a fair trial.

AjayKK · Post by **AjayKK** » 01 Apr 2009 19:28

Tanaji wrote:Does anyone know when these transcripts between the handlers and the terrorists gathered? Was it in near real time as the attack took place or were they gifted to us by the FBI? In either case, why wasnt any attempt made to disrupt the communications?

Apologies if it was already answered...

From this article, reported 2 Jan 2009, some details

Clinching and incontrovertible proof that the Mumbai terror attack was planned on and launched from Pakistani soil by Pakistanis will soon be presented to Islamabad by American sleuths after the FBI records enough evidence.

These evidences include transcripts of conversations between the assailants and LeT commanders, Zaki-ur Rehman Lakhvi and Zarar Shah. The other two Lashkar commanders who passed on directives to terrorists using Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) calls were Abu Qafa and Abu Hamza. The media in the US and UK has reported that Washington has already handed over tapes of Shah's conversations with the terrorists to Islamabad.

Since six American nationals were among the 173 people killed in Mumbai, the FBI is required by US laws to probe the Mumbai attacks. The agency is also required to file a case and conduct a trial in an American court of law, sources said.

The evidence that FBI has includes the details of satphone and VoIP calls, the GPS device used by the attackers to reach Mumbai, and the email sent in the name of Deccan Mujahideen to own up the massacre which has now been traced to Zarar Shah.

A vindicated India on Thursday again asked Pakistan to hand over the suspects in light of the ``strong evidence'' which has been delivered to Islamabad by the US. ``We have been told that there is some strong evidence available with FBI and they have shared it with Pakistan. We expect that Pakistan will act on them and hand over the perpetrators of the terror attack in Mumbai to us,'' external affairs minister Pranab Mukherjee told a news channel, adding that Pakistan had not yet taken any ``tangible'' action against the perpetrators.

Sources said that investigations by the FBI have confirmed that the location of satellite phones used by LeT commanders to talk to the assailants while they were on their way to Mumbai, had been in Pakistan for months.

The VoIP calls to and from the cellphones of terrorists when the attacks were on have also been traced to Lashkar leaders in Pakistan.

The phones used by the terrorists in the two hotels had almost melted because of the fire that broke out, but FBI experts still managed to cull out call details and other relevant data once Indian authorities handed over the phones to them.

US intelligence chief John McConnell was said to have confirmed during his visit to India that one of the numbers logged on the satellite phone the terrorists used while navigating their way to Mumbai belonged to known Lashkar terrorist Abu Al Qama. Indian intelligence officials are familiar with the Thuraya satellite phone that Qama uses. The US, using its leverage with Sharjah, where Thuraya is headquartered, corroborated this fact.

Added later : Another DNA article dated December 10, 2008 mentions this

Claiming to have detected another Pakistani link into the audacious Mumbai attacks, investigators have said payment of Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) connection used by terrorists was made from port city of Karachi.

With the assistance of western investigating agencies including FBI and Scotland Yard, Indian investigators have found that the account was purchased on a fake identity card in Karachi and the payment of USD 300 was routed through a prominent money transfer service, official sources said.

Investigators, who monitored worldwide traffic of VoIP found that nearly 5000 calls were made across the globe at the time of terror strikes in Mumbai. A critical analysis and decoding of data packets led them to two VoIP numbers which were accessed from six Indian mobile phone numbers, the sources said.

Following fresh revelations the focus has now shifted to a Gulf-based satellite service operator, whose services were also used by the terrorists to connect with the LeT commanders in Pakistan.

The FBI team and Scotland yard sleuths have been in Mumbai for the last 10 days they are interpreting all clues besides the Internet telephony signatures intercepted by Indian intelligence agencies.

The FBI team, which landed here on December one, has been able to break the code of Internet telephony, its area of expertise.

sum · Post by **sum** » 01 Apr 2009 19:33

The phones used by the terrorists in the two hotels had almost melted because of the fire that broke out, but FBI experts still managed to cull out call details and other relevant data once Indian authorities handed over the phones to them.

Amazing tech these Amrikis have!!!!

When we we learn to take good care of our intel needs and understand the importance of a well funded, equipped and motivated intelligence agency?

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 01 Apr 2009 19:49

AjayKK

Thanks for the article, I was aware of it. However, legally speaking one does not monitor "all" calls going on around the world (Project Echelon not withstanding), only the target ones. It seems strange that someone was monitoring this target phone continuously and recording it. Either the US is now blanket monitoring all calls that go via satellite networks, or the US knew in advance that certain phone handsets are suspect. In both cases the following conclusions apply:

The encryption standard used by satellite phones is hopelessly broken (like GSM is) or the US has found some way of tapping into it
The US or whoever tapped these phones knew the operation was in progress but did not let the Indian forces on ground know about it. Could be because this may be a case of "log-all-calls-recall-later" or some other motive.

Curious though.

sum · Post by **sum** » 01 Apr 2009 19:52

I dont think they monitored it from before the incident...

They just tapped the supplier to release the logs he had with him( Thats what i recall reading in the papers).
Also, some of it was certainly tapped by Indian agencies also (at least the mobile phone conversations) since i remember reading something to that effect in some article.

Maybe, Shyamd can confirm?

AjayKK · Post by **AjayKK** » 01 Apr 2009 19:59

Tanaji,exactly my question.
Also curious, is 'blanket monitoring' possible/viable ?

ShyamD ?

Tanaji wrote:AjayKK

Thanks for the article, I was aware of it. However, legally speaking one does not monitor "all" calls going on around the world (Project Echelon not withstanding), only the target ones. It seems strange that someone was monitoring this target phone continuously and recording it. Either the US is now blanket monitoring all calls that go via satellite networks, or the US knew in advance that certain phone handsets are suspect. In both cases the following conclusions apply:

The encryption standard used by satellite phones is hopelessly broken (like GSM is) or the US has found some way of tapping into it

The US or whoever tapped these phones knew the operation was in progress but did not let the Indian forces on ground know about it. Could be because this may be a case of "log-all-calls-recall-later" or some other motive.
Curious though.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 01 Apr 2009 20:10

sum wrote:I dont think they monitored it from before the incident...

They just tapped the supplier to release the logs he had with him( Thats what i recall reading in the papers).
Also, some of it was certainly tapped by Indian agencies also (at least the mobile phone conversations) since i remember reading something to that effect in some article.

Maybe, Shyamd can confirm?

Telco providers do not record everything that flows through their network unless specifically asked to do so by the requisite legal authority. They only maintain logs of all conversations, i.e. called and calling party numbers, time of call, duration etc, but not the content. Capacity constraints preclude them from doing this. In fact, legal intercept functions are set to a certain percentage of total capacity of a switch. The highest I have seen this was for Israel, around 10% and this was severely taxing the switch.

AjayKK

Blanket monitoring is possible, assuming a saner retention period. Perhaps "they" are blanket monitoring *all* satellite mobile calls, but not other calls...

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 01 Apr 2009 20:21

Thuraya phone conversations were intercepted by Indian intel. Its led to huge successes in J&K.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Apr 2009 21:35

Recall that there was a undercover J&K policeman who was running a sting by supplying SIM cards from Kolkota to Pak Terrorists and some of these cell phones had those SIM cards. So the Indian side was monitoring the ongoing operations. The US and Western help was to authenticate the phones and thier mode of acquisition etc.

The undercover was so deep he got arrested by Indian police.

If TSP has any brains they wont buy SIM cards from India anymore for their terrorists strikes, for most likely all SIM cards sold by panwalas etc are all logged with IB.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 01 Apr 2009 21:42

If the conversations were tapped by Indian intel in real time, why were they allowed to go on? If one reads the transcripts, it is clear that the handlers were providing tactical advice by watching television reports. So why was it allowed to continue?

The obvious answer is to get proof of Pak involvement but does that over ride operational security, especially given the fact that it took 58 hours for the whole operation and hence was not easy in any sense?

Hmm, another interesting thing is Thuraya allows roaming with existing GSM networks. Perhaps the terrorists had a sat phone but were roaming on to the local GSM network. IT would be easy to intercept them that way. I am curious how the agencies have managed to crack the satellite phone encryption..

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Apr 2009 21:51

Now you know why MKN was allowed to keep his job? I think the comms were not interrupted to provide a smoking gun towards TSP complicity in the terrorist attack. As the NSG was anyway going to clear the attacks no matter what the GOI must have decided to keep their wondow on the situation open. Only shortcoming was they should have an incident commander who was kept abreast of the montoring. Unfortunately there were none with all the leadership in hiding.

If you go by the timeline US warned India about the probability of such an attack from the sea side and India was on the alert. However the attack was postponed for wahtever reasons (I suspect uncle was playing both sides and or TSP got suspicious). And it was back to normal. Then the US gave some very short notice about the 26/11 attack. And the IN was sent chasing to obsolete coordinates. And all that.

The IB had an ace in the hole - known SIM cards with terrorists and even uncle didint think of that.

if this wanst there I dont think they would have been so forthcoming.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 01 Apr 2009 23:19

>>Amazing tech these Amrikis have!!!!

You mean amazing tech the Israelis have? A lot of the intercept technology, which even the Americans use, comes from our Yehudi friends. That's not to say the Americans are babes in the wood, mind you. They have been at this business for a long, long time.

>>When we we learn to take good care of our intel needs and understand the importance of a well funded, equipped and motivated intelligence agency?

The Americans spend humongous amounts of money on communications interception. In comparison, for the amount of money we spend, we are fairly capable. We have been intercepting all communication - satellite, landline and undersea fiber-optic - for some time now. Intercepting Thuraya is no big deal, especially as not many people use the stuff anymore. The real problem is internet telephony - stuff like Skype - with the data going in discrete packets through multiple routes.

The headache, as always, is volume. Somebody has to sit and filter this stuff, after the software/hardware filtering is done, and even then volumes are massive. When targeted intercepts are done, then it can be very effective. Otherwise, it is a matter of going back and sifting... Not fun, I'm sure. But as you can sense from the bits and pieces in the media, there is little that is not intercepted.

Legal issues are there but there are always ways to circumvent. Sometimes it's just flat out ignored, both in the US and elsewhere - and efforts are continuously underway to mould the legal system to fit the intercept requirements. The whole thing is pretty w.orrying when you think about it, but at least there is an attempt to keep in mind the concerns and considerations of democracy. The US intelligence community, in particular, has been fighting a running battle to stay on the right side of the law, and some of the things they have to do to keep on the straight and narrow are almost comical

It might help if you recall that a couple of Indian conglomerates now own the cables that run a lot of the comm traffic in a significant swath of the world. VSNL and Reliance IIRC.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 02 Apr 2009 14:59

the ISI knows that thuraya etc are cracked - even from mushy's beijing phone call days. that's why they have switched to mobile VOIP. i read recently that Austria has claimed that it can intercept and decode VOIP calls - potentially straightforward for the centralised systems, but more challenging for peer-peer systems. i expect that the mumbai case was not known live, but traced subsequently once the handsets were recovered and the data sets extracted and messages re-created. the use of indian sim cards is quite probably an attempt at hiding under the huge volume of traffic generated in india, any foreign sim card will be much more visible

it is very likely that certain 'patterns' in the VOIP traffic world are more routinely scanned than others, but it is very much a challenge

sum · Post by **sum** » 02 Apr 2009 16:08

Are Garmin sets still out of bounds for our agencies (given that we seem to have mastered the Thuraya)?

There were reports that we approached Unkil to decipher the Garmin data...

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 02 Apr 2009 16:18

sum wrote:Are Garmin sets still out of bounds for our agencies (given that we seem to have mastered the Thuraya)?

There were reports that we approached Unkil to decipher the Garmin data...

GPS related stuff will be quite easy for unkil to crack. Not worth spending our resources if unkil is willing to do it for us. But I agree that we have to develop the capability on the long run.

sum · Post by **sum** » 02 Apr 2009 21:21

GPS related stuff will be quite easy for unkil to crack. Not worth spending our resources if unkil is willing to do it for us.

Unkil will surely crack it for us but one can be rest assured that all the info coming out of the deciphering will not be passed onto India, esp serious misdeeds of its MuNNA. So, it is imperative that we have in house capabilities instead of depending on "treacherous" partners like Unkil since its certain that the ISI will start shifting to Garmin sets once it realises that the Thuraya is almost open book for Indian agencies..