Indian Missile Technology Discussion

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 07 Apr 2009 22:38

vavinash wrote:Malaysia are closet pakis. It would be foolish to sell them anything. Indonesia does buy some BEL stuff, they could order some akash batteries.

yeah ? then why has the IAF been assisting them right from the MiG-29N to the Su-30MKM ? Malaysia was also identified as a possible customer for the Brahmos. wouldn't happen if they were thought of as being fundamentalist Islamists.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 07 Apr 2009 23:01

^an Israeli answer to all speculations in media

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel carried out a test launch of its Arrow II interceptor missile on Tuesday, the Defense Ministry said, a system designed to defend against possible ballistic missile attacks by Iran and Syria.

"There was a successful test today of an improved Arrow (missile) that hit and intercepted a target more complicated than normal," Defense Minister Ehud Barak told reporters after watching the launch from a helicopter.

The Arrow intercepted a target missile, simulating an Iranian Shehab, launched from an Israeli aircraft over the Mediterranean, a defense source said.

Israel Radio said it was the 16th test launch of an Arrow. The defense source said 90 percent of those tests have been successful.

The defense source said the aim of this test was to prepare for future threats as enemy missiles improve their capabilities.

"The arrow's interception altitude has been enhanced. Of course, the higher you go, the further out you can reach as well. Our doctrine is to intercept enemy missiles as far away from Israeli skies as possible. That gives you time for another try if you miss," the source, who could not be named, said.

The project is jointly funded by Israel and the United States to serve as a strategic shield against ballistic missiles in the arsenals of Iran and Syria.

At least two Arrow batteries have been deployed in Israel, which has been testing the system to improve its performance at high altitudes and against multiple incoming missiles.

Israel fears that Iran's uranium enrichment program is aimed at producing nuclear weapons, an allegation Tehran denies.

there was news about similarities in arrow2 and barak8 systems??

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 07 Apr 2009 23:14

Kartik wrote:
vavinash wrote:Malaysia are closet pakis. It would be foolish to sell them anything. Indonesia does buy some BEL stuff, they could order some akash batteries.
yeah ? then why has the IAF been assisting them right from the MiG-29N to the Su-30MKM ? Malaysia was also identified as a possible customer for the Brahmos. wouldn't happen if they were thought of as being fundamentalist Islamists.

I agree with vavinash.

Karthik, your point is also well taken but I think our GOI has been extremely foolish because malaysia are closet pakis with extremely close relations with them and we have been taken for a ride again.

You can bet your boots that already many paki pilots have flown and familiarized themselves with the MiG 29 as also the Sukhoi.

We WILL also sell the blighters the Brahmos so that both the pakis and the chinese can take it apart and counter it to our fatal detriment.

The success of any missile like the Brahmos, is only up to the first use in battle. The test and practice launch frequencies and some vital parameters of any missile will be different from the actual battle frequencies and parameters.

Once the actual battle parameters of a missile are exposed in action, it will be studied by opponents and countermeasures for it devised
( sometimes with help from other interested countries! ), it becomes practically useless. You have to radically redesign the missile system to maintain its effectiveness.

or build a totally new missile.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 07 Apr 2009 23:26

the other potential customers of brahmos l2l,s2s,s2l,could only be, India,Taiwan,Russia,Israel,Argentina,South africa,Afghanistan,,, in decreasing order

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 08 Apr 2009 03:38

Baljeet wrote: Dr. Pillai is a very well respected name in International Military Circle. This man has been frequently consulted by Pentagon, JIEDDO for providing input on fight against IED's that were decimating US Forces in Iraq.

Any proof on that assertion ??

Also, I'm curious why the "Pentagon" would consult an Indian missile scientist on Improvised Explosives, especially when they have literally hundreds of branches of the US military and military industrial complex that are perhaps more qualified to provide solutions that Dr.Pillai. Also, as far as I'm aware they are more concerned about bringing viable technologies to the field to counter the IED threat and using soldiers on the ground exposed to IED's to provide solutions ala the ANTS division.

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 08 Apr 2009 03:51

p_saggu wrote:Selling any thing in east asia runs the risk of the Chinese studying and getting to know more about the system, its frequencies etc.
A risk not worth taking for systems which are currently deployed. Unless DRDO makes important items tamper proof, and we export the Block I systems only when Block II systems are under induction.

Most defense companies that export their products usually have an "export" version that is dumbed down and modified to preserve their military secrets. The Bramhos company could do the very same thing.

Also, why is there so much talk about selling these systems abroad when the Indian military itself is not fully equipped with them in adequate numbers.

Lastly, isnt the Bramhos by its very nature a "limited" system in that since its a joint venture, they cant proceed to develop a version that exceeds the MTCR guidelines. I think it is about time DRDO think of taking the technologies gained through the Bramhos JV and start about building a multi-stage long range precision cruise missile system to acheive regional strike capability much like the US Conventional Prompt Global Strike (PGS) program that seeks to strike any target globally within 60 minutes.

disha · Post by **disha** » 08 Apr 2009 10:11

Brando wrote: Also, I'm curious why the "Pentagon" would consult an Indian missile scientist on Improvised Explosives, especially when they have literally hundreds of branches of the US military and military industrial complex that are perhaps more qualified to provide solutions that Dr.Pillai. Also, as far as I'm aware they are more concerned about bringing viable technologies to the field to counter the IED threat and using soldiers on the ground exposed to IED's to provide solutions ala the ANTS division.

Why? O why why why why? How come the mighty US Defense industry need to talk to any SDRE, the guys who do not even know how to spell Rackit. Or newclear?

Honestly, the way I see it, the US is fast loosing its innovation edge and the pendulum is slowly shifting eastwards [read India]. At this current pace of development in two decades it is going to be an entirely different scene! US is already falling behind and soon it will be way way behind.

Tell me which millitary has a deployed supersonic LACM? And which country has more experience with IEDs outside of some pigsties?

In scientific circles, it does not matter if you are a gora from the land of the meek and slaved or a SDRE with chaotic democracy, all it matters is one's intelligence. If you do not believe it, read WoF, where Werner Von Braun "consulted" Kalam on the SLV's length-to-diameter ratio. And if you do not know what is WoF, ask any BR member meekly and they will sure "consult" you.

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 08 Apr 2009 11:30

vavinash wrote:Malaysia are closet pakis. It would be foolish to sell them anything. Indonesia does buy some BEL stuff, they could order some akash batteries.

Unfortunately, this has been the sort of reaction that has led us to lose friends and allies.

In the larger interest of good relations and strategic partnerships, sometimes, we'll have to risk losing some technology. This is how we have lost SL, this is how we have given away Africa to the Chinese.

Secondly, the SE Asian Nations are a perfect place to start this from - most of them are very-western in outlook, and are quite wary of China. Additionally, we have very good relations with Malaysia - the Su-30MKMs and military exercises being the prominent military examples. By denying them weapons which they will use to contain Chinese ambitions in the Malaccas, we are effectively leaving them toothless, and that will only move them closer towards China.

Plus, we can always dumb down the exported products, or impose checks and balances.

Lets not be penny-wise, pound-foolish ... by taking a look at the small picture, we are losing sight of the big game.

P.S... a birdie says that Akash has got a foreign order - no info on verification and corroboration, or any more details...

P.P.S... the birdie posts here.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 08 Apr 2009 12:22

P.S... a birdie says that Akash has got a foreign order - no info on verification and corroboration, or any more details...

not even country ?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 08 Apr 2009 12:53

Brando wrote:
Also, I'm curious why the "Pentagon" would consult an Indian missile scientist on Improvised Explosives, especially when they have literally hundreds of branches of the US military and military industrial complex that are perhaps more qualified to provide solutions that Dr.Pillai. Also, as far as I'm aware they are more concerned about bringing viable technologies to the field to counter the IED threat and using soldiers on the ground exposed to IED's to provide solutions ala the ANTS division.

They do personal assessment with these contacts. These are diversions for something else.
The focus is the tech details for bramos

skher · Post by **skher** » 08 Apr 2009 15:35

Acharya wrote:
They do personal assessment with these contacts. These are diversions for something else.
The focus is the tech details for bramos

If this is the case,no wonder the Russians are furious!
The opportunity to closely examine Sukhoi-MKIs,the delivery platform for BrahMos-ALCM, also presented itself in Red Flag/Copex.

It seems unlikely that IAF & Dr.Pillai would endanger national interest willingly or without getting noticed...but when the sixth pay commission's around, one can never be sure!

John · Post by **John** » 08 Apr 2009 20:57

Raj Malhotra wrote:After all this discussion it is still not clear as to whether Naval LRSAM is same as IAF MRSAM or they are different? The diagram of Indian Express does not show any booster on MRSAM! It is difficult to believe that 276kg missile will have 'effective' range of 72km

Most like hit to kill missile with active seeker and flies with optimal flight path (rather than direct flight path to target) basically a missile similar to Aster 15/30 (latter has a range of 120 km). However the range is often misquoted since these max ranges are against slow moving targets at med altitude.

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 08 Apr 2009 21:02

disha wrote: Honestly, the way I see it, the US is fast loosing its innovation edge and the pendulum is slowly shifting eastwards [read India]. At this current pace of development in two decades it is going to be an entirely different scene! US is already falling behind and soon it will be way way behind.

Tell me which millitary has a deployed supersonic LACM? And which country has more experience with IEDs outside of some pigsties?

In scientific circles, it does not matter if you are a gora from the land of the meek and slaved or a SDRE with chaotic democracy, all it matters is one's intelligence. If you do not believe it, read WoF, where Werner Von Braun "consulted" Kalam on the SLV's length-to-diameter ratio. And if you do not know what is WoF, ask any BR member meekly and they will sure "consult" you.

I am always amused at the preposterous rhetoric and propaganda that is fed to Indians and fed by Indians to everybody about alleged technical expertise in all and sundry when in reality demonstrable ability is far far below all the..."talk" . So Von Braun consulted Kalam or do you mean Kalam consulted Von Braun ?? Because, I find it extremely hard to believe the former and am dubious about the latter as well.

I'm quite aware of Kalam's autobiographical work Wings of Fire and am also quite aware of the very Indian proclivity towards hyperbole and reinforcing a personality cult.

The US is in all modesty simply not in the same league from the rest of the nation's militarys. The prime focus with in the US is robotic weapons and Prompt Global strike capabilities and Future Combat warrior system that most militarys in the world havent even begun to approach. In fact the technological "pendulum" as you've said has been nailed in favor of the US and the West a LONG time ago.

As for "deploying a supersonic LACM", you do realize that even the Soviets who developed the Yakhont decades before your "deployment" havent been too interested in it as it didnt suit their needs. The USAF had a program that was more advanced and much longer range than the Bramhos in the early 50s called the SM-64 Navaho but there werent too satisfied with the program because it was too scary a weapon to use. A supersonic LACM is nothing unique or great to the powers that be, its a very old concept that they've toyed with themselves extensively. As for IED's, there really isnt much to "experience". They are crude bombs improvised due to lack of technical skill and/or lack of proper material. You dont need to be particularly smart to build IED's, just particularly desperate with fanatical dedication.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Apr 2009 21:08

Disha, Brando and others please confine your remarks to technical details We have many threads to express other views about Indian psyche etc.

h.jay.s · Post by **h.jay.s** » 08 Apr 2009 21:54

Just to set the record straight

1) WOF is NOT autobiographical
2) Yakont was ASHM not LACM

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 08 Apr 2009 22:15

chetak wrote: I agree with vavinash.

Karthik, your point is also well taken but I think our GOI has been extremely foolish because malaysia are closet pakis with extremely close relations with them and we have been taken for a ride again.

You can bet your boots that already many paki pilots have flown and familiarized themselves with the MiG 29 as also the Sukhoi.

actually, Malay pilots are mostly either ethnically Indian (Tamils) or Chinese and I've never seen or heard of an Air Force exercise between Malaysia and Pakistan, whereas exchange of personnel for training purposes must be routine, as it is between IAF and RMAF.

Indian ACM visits Malaysia in 2008

Amongst other RMAF bases, the CAS will also visit Gong Kedak Air Base in North-East Malaysia, which is home to an Indian Air Force Training Team.

The team of IAF pilots and technicians are in Malaysia for two years, on their invitation, to train their Pilots, Weapon System Operators and Maintenance staff for the smooth induction and operation of their newly acquired Su-30 MKM fighter aircraft. This follows the signing of a protocol between the two Governments in December last year at Langkawi, Malaysia and is seen as a major development in Indo-Malaysian relations.

The team would also train the RMAF technicians to help them set up a Systems School for the Su-30 MKM at Gong Kedak Air Base. Under an earlier Memorandum of Understanding, the IAF had conducted ground training on MiG-29 aircraft for close to 100 personnel of the RMAF in Oct 94.

Air Force to Air Force cooperation with Malaysia has also received a boost with the first high level Air Staff Talks between the two Air Forces having been held at the IAF HQ in New Delhi on 04 and 05 Aug 08. The talks covered issues that included professional exchanges, Su-30 training, courses, logistics support and air exercises.

the point is that unless we cultivate a good relationship between our services, we cannot expect them to be friendly with us. Just because they're an Islamic nation doesn't mean that they're pro-Pakis. on the other hand, Indonesia is definitely more pro-Paki.

they are also operators of the Scorpene, and have had exercises with the Paki Navy, so its imperative that India must maintain good terms with them so that they are not motivated to disclose too many details that could be used against weapons we also used. keeping them within our sphere of influence is essential, IMO.

jaladipc · Post by **jaladipc** » 08 Apr 2009 22:43

Why people here are so inclined to a particular nation while the chances of selling the system in the region is more than 3 nations.

Diversify your thoughts and extend your reach

Mihir.D · Post by **Mihir.D** » 09 Apr 2009 00:14

I say its Vietnam.

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 09 Apr 2009 04:13

your irrelevant bilge has been tolerated for far too long.
last time I was involved in the discussions which had tied my hands.
I am under no such restrictions this time.
Rahul.

hnair ji, for the sake of the thread, I'm removing your posts.
sorry about that.

babbupandey · Post by **babbupandey** » 09 Apr 2009 10:05

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=10754

Doesn't it look like balderdash? Comparing SAM with AAD...

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 09 Apr 2009 10:21

DNA is just creating mindless paranoia for the sake of news , if only they had done their research properly they would have found that MR- SAM will replace some of the current missile defence systems which are outdated , AAD will not be in the same category as it will defend against BM's.

Why is it so hard for them to work out.

babbupandey · Post by **babbupandey** » 09 Apr 2009 12:39

DDM
BR should stop posting DNA articles on news updates

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 09 Apr 2009 13:03

actually, Malay pilots are mostly either ethnically Indian (Tamils) or Chinese and I've never seen or heard of an Air Force exercise between Malaysia and Pakistan, whereas exchange of personnel for training purposes must be routine, as it is between IAF and RMAF.

Very true. That country has a diverse culture with Malay (native people), Chinese and Indians (99.99% tamil) in almost equal proportion. Personally I found out the Malay people to be moderates (modern muslim with love/tolerance to all religions) and very friendly. I really hate the Karunanidhi fiasco and his vote bank politics which spoiled the sentiments for Indians there.

Cheers....

Ashutosh Malik · Post by **Ashutosh Malik** » 09 Apr 2009 18:44

Exporting weapons to Vietnam makes a lot of sense.

Based on publicly available information one gets a sense that India has not really explored the possibility of using Vietnam as a leverage against China. They are sitting under the Chinese belly and have whipped their ass earlier and hardly have any love lost for the Chinese. Bharat Karnad has also averred to this earlier in his writings.

As for Mr. Brando's thoughts - well I would recommend that all of us read the book "The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers" by Paul Kennedy. ISBN-10: 0679720197, ISBN-13: 978-0679720195. Will give a sobering thought to anyone who thinks that any particularly country or empire will retain the edge for all times to come. 20-30 years are hardly anything in the march of nations. What will be interesting is what happens 100 years from now. One history book that I read by a Chinese author residing in US, seemed to suggest that Chinese time frame is to look at where they will stand post 100 years or 200 years. They are keen to teach the western world a lesson for the injustice done to them in the 19th century. Although in India we dont seem to communicate the same resolve, the march of the times will make things clear to our cousins from the western civilisation.

Without belittling the achievements of western civilisation - after all we are also learning from them - I think the issue with a substantial number of people in the West is that they think that time started when their civilisation started to rule the waves post around end of 17th/ beginning of 18th century. One can hardly fault the majority among them to think that way - they have just seen their primacy over other civilisations. Interestingly from the economic point of view, even till early 19th century China and India accounted the most substantial portion of the world GDP. Without denying the achievement of the Western world over the last 400 odd years, I think one needs to help them appreciate that time didnt start 400 years ago! And nor will things stop changing!

Cheers

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 09 Apr 2009 19:03

neerajb wrote:

Personally I found out the Malay people to be moderates (modern muslim with love/tolerance to all religions) and very friendly.

Not in the states where PAS is.

Also they sound moderate and loving because they have all the benefits without doing diddly squat thanks to bhoomiputra policy.

The TV always show Chinese and Indians in bad light and the Malays are the ones who correct them

And everytime I fly into KL - the hijabs are increasing. Sign for the times.

It had the potential to be great multicultural state - but oh well..

has mind boggling variety of food though

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Apr 2009 19:09

concern is the question of it being only the range issue. if it is, then we could have done a similar joint indo-israeli collaboration to make akash to be having 80km range as well.

when the requirements are drafted,.. are these defence honchos really see a quota system and apply like smooth operators?, and right from planning stage, akash will never get that market!?

a whole lot of truth will never be said though.. however, if we have a system to improve on, and anybody thinks we can get there, we should choose that path rather.

i'd vote for that.

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 09 Apr 2009 21:16

h.jay.s wrote:Just to set the record straight

1) WOF is NOT autobiographical

He heeee ... have you even read "Wings Of Fire" once? Or even held the book in your hand?
If you had, you wont be calling day as night

Just setting record straight for you.

Avid · Post by **Avid** » 09 Apr 2009 23:32

My 2c - intended to perhaps provide a more relevant framework to the discussions, and keeping them from going into mine is ****er than yours flavor.

There are 3 different vertices of a triangle that determine the final outcome - People, Process and Technology. What applies to business world applies as well to Military.

While one can to an extent compensate for other two, perfect substitution is not possible. Largely, each is complementary and mostly orthogonal to the other two. Consequently, defense forces invest in technology, intensive training of people operating the technologies, and continual exercises which enable process improvements. Substitutability happens only when processes become more routine than ad-hoc. Then it is more favorable to develop a technology that can do relatively mindless job and use the human elsewhere. However, all this works only in symmetric warfare.

Asymmetric warfare inherently is two forces fighting using disparate combination of the people, process, technology. I could go into detail of the game-theoretic and optimality (or lack thereof) of varying combinations depending on configuration of the enemy, but that would be besides the point.

For those discussing innovation and "advancement" and technological supremacy, you are likely to fall prey to the same blind notions of technological supremacy equates overall supremacy. For one, advancement does not equate innovation. While advancement requires large knowledge repository within the organization/country/etc., innovation is not bound or restricted by the same elements. One could easily argue that higher investments by defense forces in technology is going to make them less innovative, and consequently an easier prey to innovative enemy. Again besides the point - other than please do not equate technological advancement as equating innovation.

Now, if you want to engage in whose is better - please list in all three dimensions (people, process, technology), and then prove how it is superior to all other solutions with different combinations of the three. If you cannot, then please shutup and do not force the rest of us to read nonsensical jingoist arguments from any side on the board.

--- FYI Reference Card for debates (perhaps ought to be used widely across the board)

1. Military solution comprises of people, process, technology. None of the three are perfect substitutes of other, and allocations to any one or more always have implication on overall utilization and effectiveness of the solution.
2. Innovation is different from advancement
3. Knowledge possessed is different from innovation
4. Drivers of innovation vs. scientific advancement are not identical
5. No military solution is inherently superior to another unless you can prove that any combination of other three is inferior.
6. Optimality of a military solution does not equate superiority
7. Technological superiority does not equate solution superiority
8. Combination arguments of above.
----

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 10 Apr 2009 09:41

@Surya

Not in the states where PAS is.

This is like saying West Bengal people are anti-India because Lefties always win there and CPM has pro China policies. Regarding policies and HINDRAF hoh-hallah in 2008, That was totally politically motivated. MIC's suggested to have one Tamil school every few square kilometeres

, similarly PAS is pro Malays just for the sake of power.

Also they sound moderate and loving because they have all the benefits without doing diddly squat thanks to bhoomiputra policy.

First of all, IMVHO, Malays do need protection. Chinese and Indians hold most of Malaysia's wealth and Malay's fear of Chinese and Indian domination are not totally unfounded. India's reservation system seems more discriminatory to me than Bumiputra.

It had the potential to be great multicultural state - but oh well..

Sorry, But IMO the Malaysian people have more tolerance to other religions/community than India.

Cheers....

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 10 Apr 2009 09:51

No more discussion on malaysia please.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 10 Apr 2009 10:11

I wish it is Vietnam and Taiwan. Perhaps other ASEAN members.. It will be great to sell our AAD to them as well, when it is developed. Along with Brahmos..

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 10 Apr 2009 13:32

I find funny the circular debate / speculation on kicking dust at China by exporting weapons to its enemies, while no one talks of the elephant in the room!

As Shri Shatrugna Sinha and Raj Kumar used to say in filmy isstyle:

"Yeh Bandook Bacchon Ki Khelnay Ki Cheez Nahian Hai,
Ghoda Dabanay Kay Liyay Kalaja Chahiyay"

With GoI elites populated by Napunsak, what use are the fighter aircraft s or tanks?

Jaangh Main Dum hai tou baat Karo, Nahin to sab Napunsak kay baytay Ki shadi kay Khayali Pulao hai.

Just my 'dehati' thoughts that are best expressed in my native language. Roughly translated to: "If one has balls only then there is any use in dareing. Else its like an impotent dreaming of his son's marriage. IOW oxymoron"

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 11 Apr 2009 20:49

Gentlemen, I have created a separate thread for discussing corruption in arms deals, arms agents and the media angle to all this. The existing discussions on the MRSAM deal have been moved there. Please continue pertinent discussions there, and use this thread for technical discussions. Thanks.

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 15 Apr 2009 11:54

India test fires nuclear-capable Prithvi missile

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 15 Apr 2009 11:55

ANy idea why a Prithvi is being tested now?

vishal · Post by **vishal** » 15 Apr 2009 12:17

Aditya_V wrote:ANy idea why a Prithvi is being tested now?

If you are going to test a new sub-system it makes sense to do it on something that is present in abundance and relatively cheap. Just speculation though.

AmitR · Post by **AmitR** » 15 Apr 2009 12:47

vishal wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:ANy idea why a Prithvi is being tested now?
If you are going to test a new sub-system it makes sense to do it on something that is present in abundance and relatively cheap. Just speculation though.

I wonder why India needs to issue a press statement for every defence related tests that it does. Why can't we just complete all the tests and avoid all the unnecessary media attention and brick bats between various agencies.

Mihir.D · Post by **Mihir.D** » 15 Apr 2009 13:45

Just another Prithvi test like so many others before

.
Can a Prithvi be used to simulate cruise missiles or some A2Gm weapons ?

I am 150 posts old !

jmaxwell · Post by **jmaxwell** » 15 Apr 2009 13:45

AmitR wrote:I wonder why India needs to issue a press statement for every defence related tests that it does.

Being the responsible democracy that we are, I am sure this is to notify our WARm neighbors not to pucker their butt cheeks (especially the already puckered up TFTA junta) when we press the red button. Atleast not yet

. And I also won't be surprised if the intent is also to notify the public that we are continually testing (IA) /upgrading (DRDO) our weapons.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 15 Apr 2009 13:51

we anyway have a pact with the pakis to notify each other in case of BM tests.
the global monitoring systems too can be expected to keep a 24/7 eye on ITR so in reality you can't expect the test to remain a secret.

in such circumstances, failing to announce a test is a sure fire way of attracting undue attention towards it. of course, by now we know that trishul and prithvi tests are mysterious phenomena, one can never be sure what that means !