J & K news and discussion

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 09 Apr 2009 13:35

It's an armed intrusion, like Kargil, in Kashmir

New Delhi: It is no more an 'intrusion' of terrorists into Kashmir. It is 'armed intrusion'.

The last time the government used such a term emphatically was during the Kargil war in 1999.

The army has moved up almost 800 Rashtriya Rifles men to deal with the onslaught.Television reports said encounters between the infiltrators and security forces were on at eight locations and that commandos were being air-dropped.

Reluctant to brand them as Taliban, top government officials here admit that qualitatively different types of terrorists are intruding into Kashmir this year.

Many are beginning to call the entry of heavily armed, seasoned terrorists as "armed intrusions", shedding their otherwise preferred, and milder, nomenclature.

Sources said there is no confirmation if the over 20 hardcore terrorists who entered Kashmir in March-April are of the Taliban. "But there are indications that they are not from the traditional militant bases of Punjab and Pakistan-occupied Kashmir," a senior official said.

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 09 Apr 2009 13:39

The all new and improved terrorist at India's gates

amit · Post by **amit** » 09 Apr 2009 16:56

X-post from TSP thread:

amit wrote:B Raman's take on the infiltration in Kashmir here

He makes a point which is being bandied about here:

The goal would be to strengthen those experts close to Obama who have been saying that a solution to the so-called Kashmir problem should be the starting point of any effective fight against terrorism emanating from the Pakistani territory
The question is, is the US aware of this?

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 10 Apr 2009 15:36

A high-level meeting in Srinagar reviewed the situation along the border during which the army reportedly came in for some criticism and was given evidence of infiltration. Army officials told the meeting it had conducted regular recces by helicopters from beginning of March to find if there was any infiltration. But other security agencies said it was difficult to spot infiltrators who had camouflaged themselves with white Parka jackets and Balaclava caps, the sources said. The sources said three infiltration incidents- Gurez, Tangdhar and Zoon Reshi, Kupwara- were discussed threadbare in the meeting.

http://www.greaterkashmir.com/today/ful ... D=48&cat=1

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 10 Apr 2009 15:40

Pak passports add new dimension to terror tactics

In a change of tactic by Pakistan-based terrorists, a new dimension has been added to the ongoing militancy in Jammu and Kashmir. The Army has nabbed six terrorists who were carrying Pakistani passports.

This implies militants can now fly out of Pakistan unhindered to countries like Nepal, Sri Lanka or Bangladesh and sneak into India, said a senior functionary. Sources in the Army said it was after several years that Pakistani passports have been found from terrorists in J&K.

The Army and security agencies are interrogating the youths, who have been nabbed from various parts of Jammu and Kashmir in the past two weeks by security forces. Notably, all these youths are originally residents of the Indian side of the J&K and all of them have been to Pakistan and had disappeared for a few years before re-surfacing again in the past. At least one of them has been to Nepal and has an entry stamp on his passport of that country.

Entering India from others countries is easier as compared to an attempt to cross the Indo-Pak border. Almost the entire Indo-Pak border is fenced. Thermal imagers and ground sensors pick out any movement while radio and telephonic intercepts are more fine-tuned and targetted. This is not the case on the highly porous Indo-Nepal border while large swathes of the Indo-Bangladesh border just cannot be fenced. Lastly, the sea route from Sri Lanka to India is very easy to take. The LTTE and Al-Qaida have had traditional links.

tripathi · Post by **tripathi** » 10 Apr 2009 18:24

There seems to be total black out of news regarding the on going intrusion at 8 simultaneous places in kashmir

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 10 Apr 2009 20:02

Pak-trained terrorists caught in Kashmir

It has been one of the most challenging periods for Indian security forces in Kashmir. Of late, they have been encountering some of the most motivated and well-trained terrorists ever to cross over into Kashmir. Now, after an 18-day operation in Kupwara, eight terrorists with clear links to Pakistan have been caught. According to the army, passports issued in Pakistan to five of the eight of them prove their Pakistani origins. Also, all of them were trained at handling weapons in Pakistan. This latest catch only adds to the growing worry on the border over the unprecedented spurt in infiltration bids.

This year there have already been over a dozen infiltration bids, unheard of at this time of the year when the snows are yet to melt. Number of operatives in each bid is higher 10 to 12 this year as compared to the 1 or 2 every year. Moreover, there's a possibility that a proportionately high number has succeeded in infiltrating There's another worry, one of the terrorists caught entered India via Nepal confirming an old suspicion that the eastern borders are being increasingly used to enter India. With elections round the corner, the sudden spurt in infiltration is perhaps an indicator of things to come.

http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/st ... 00924200PM

sum · Post by **sum** » 10 Apr 2009 20:18

Of late, they have been encountering some of the most motivated and well-trained terrorists ever to cross over into Kashmir. Now, after an 18-day operation in Kupwara, eight terrorists with clear links to Pakistan have been caught.

Wow, so we managed to catch eight hardcore pigs alive? Thats amazing work though i hope the IA has kept their date with the 72 ready once all the juice has been extracted. (I would also assume that this was one of the reasons for the info blackout to avoid letting the handlers know of the fate of their disciples. Maybe, the objectives of the IA like busting sleeper cells based on piggie info were met and so, info is slowly being leaked out)

here's another worry, one of the terrorists caught entered India via Nepal confirming an old suspicion that the eastern borders are being increasingly used to enter India.

So this guy walked into India, went back and tried to come back through dangerous snowy conditions?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 10 Apr 2009 20:27

Can anyone confirm if Abdullah actually said this (as reported in a pooki newspaper)? If so, he needs to be charged with sedition.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2009_pg7_1

By Iftikhar Gilani

NEW DELHI: The Kashmiri people want ‘azadi’ (freedom) from the Union of India, Indian-Kashmir (IK) Chief Minister Omar Abdullah has said.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 10 Apr 2009 20:33

Why will terrorists come to India with Pukistani passports ? does it help in getting back to pukistan?

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 10 Apr 2009 20:43

Punjab hurts JK’s irrigation, power sectors badly
http://www.greaterkashmir.com/today/ful ... D=40&cat=1

Guess what, pigs do fly

Sajjad Lone will add spice to north Kashmir battle

Varmul, Apr 9: The Peoples Conference chairman, Sajjad Lone’s likely plunge into Lok Sabha polls might add some spice to an otherwise straight contest between the ruling coalition and the opposition People’s Democratic Party, turning it into a tri-angular fight in the Varmul-Kupwara constituency of North Kashmir. Analysts said the party would go whole hog to win the seat and make its presence felt in the electoral politics. The party is relying upon the traditional vote bank in Kupwara district and some areas of neighbouring Varmul and Bandipora districts. Besides, weak cadre bases in Uri, Sonawari, and several other areas, the PC would also be grappling with lack of expertise needed in the saturated and highly complicated vote bank politics of Kashmir.

“We would not change our stance on Kashmir issue by joining electoral fray. We want to represent Kashmiri sentiment in parliament after people rejected the boycott call last time,” said a PC leader, wishing anonymity. Given the status quo, the real battle seems to be between the arch rivals National Conference and the PDP. For the past fortnight, legislators of these parties are organizing meetings and holding discussions with candidates defeated in the assembly polls but can influence a sizable number of voters. The Peoples Democratic Party has fielded Muhammad Dilawar Mir, while the NC is likely to give the mandate to Abdur Rashid Shaheen, Sharifuddin Shariq or Mustafa Kamal.

The ruling National Conference which won seven seats in the assembly polls is in the driver’s seat. Being in power gives it a big advantage. It would, however, find it hard to convert Congress vote bank in its favour as the cadres of the coalition parties have been at loggerheads in most assembly segments. “The unity is between leaders and not among cadres in Uri, Sopur and other segments where the parties were in direct contest in last elections,” said an analyst, adding that the NC had played it smart by not inducting seven legislators from three districts into the ministry to avoid dissensions ahead of polls. “These legislators would strive hard in these elections, as they reckon a ministry would be a sure reward,” he said.

The five time legislator of PDP, Muhammad Dilawar Mir, would depend on the performance of his party in Varmul district as the party won three of the seven seats in assembly polls and every seat from Kupwara and Bandipora districts. Mir himself lost to NC’S Javed Dar by a thin margin. He has been campaigning for the past month and visited areas where the party’s performance was weak. The party is raking up issues of demilitarization and human rights violations, particularly the killing of two civilians in Bomai. However, it might stumble in four segments of Kupwara district besides Sonawari, Uri, Tangmarg and Gurez where its position is weak and where the poll percentage would be high. The Jamat-i-Islami bastions of Varmul and Sopur towns are likely to witness heavy boycott like in the past elections, as several youths were killed and hundreds wounded by police and CRPF troopers since July last year. This Lok Sabha constituency, with 15 assembly segments, is going to polls on May 13.

http://www.greaterkashmir.com/today/ful ... D=47&cat=1

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 10 Apr 2009 20:46

There are a lot of puki publications like kashmirwatch, kashmirorg, kashmirthis and kashmirthat on the net. Before quoting from them it would be prudent to check their credentials. JMT onlee.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 10 Apr 2009 20:54

Dilbu saar, I know the credentials of greaterkashmir. It is a soft jehadi outlet, just like PDP. Unless we clean up PDP, there is not much we can do to rid J&K of soft jehad peddlers, except wait for time and tide to let these oiseaules know which side the bread is buttered. At the end of the day, all the soft separatists and hard separatists from cuckooland see the writing on the wall, and try to prove their worth by showing how much popular they are in people's eyes. A development that should ideally shut up all the third-rate Holbrookes, Unevens and Millibunds, but unfortunately no.

Even wiki has an update on the soft separatist from cuckooland, Shri Sajjad Lone.

The recent reports in the media about Peoples Conference Chairman Sajjad Lone contesting the coming Lok Sabha elections from Varmul constituency of North Kashmir gather storm there is a mixed bag of reaction from the people. Though many see it as a welcome step and a new era of politics in making, bringing hope and a positive attitude towards the resolution of the conflict, some feel utterly hurt and betrayed. It also raises concerns among the other separatist leaders who are desperately trying to unite for the common ground. Peoples Conference was founded by Abdul Gani Lone, father of Sajjad Lone, considered being a very seasoned politician from Kupwara.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sajjad_Lone

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 10 Apr 2009 20:59

One more...

Infiltration bid foiled, Pakistani intruder killed in J&K

Jammu (PTI): Foiling an infiltration bid, BSF troops on Friday gunned down a Pakistani intruder along the international border in Samba sector of Jammu region. "BSF troops deployed observed suspicious movement of a Pakistani around 3.15 am," a BSF spokesman said here, adding the ambush party asked the intruder to stop but he started running towards the border fence. The troops opened fire and the intruder died on the spot about 150 meters inside Indian territory, he said adding an FIR has been lodged and dead body handed over to the police. The body of intruder could not be identified and efforts shall be made to hand over his body to Pakistani rangers after post mortem, the spokesman said.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holn ... 102011.htm

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 10 Apr 2009 23:02

Gilani has significant stake in GreaterKashmir paper.
Intruder in Samba could've been just a smuggler or some drunk. People straying is not uncommon, though shooting down certainly is

satya · Post by **satya** » 11 Apr 2009 01:53

Did others too noticed that news about '' 8 encounters , Kargil like situation'' peaked when US special envoy was to arrive as soon as he left news has died down to regular encounter nothing unusual in DDM now a days .

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 11 Apr 2009 04:08

satya wrote:Did others too noticed that news about '' 8 encounters , Kargil like situation'' peaked when US special envoy was to arrive as soon as he left news has died down to regular encounter nothing unusual in DDM now a days .

Thats what makes it even more unusual.

Ardeshir · Post by **Ardeshir** » 11 Apr 2009 07:47

I spoke to an officer in the Paras posted in the forward areas, and he's said that it's nothing unusual. He referred to it as the 'mating season' for Jihadis, where they come in hordes. The top shot mujahids and area commanders come in November/December/January.

sum · Post by **sum** » 11 Apr 2009 13:20

Prasant wrote:I spoke to an officer in the Paras posted in the forward areas, and he's said that it's nothing unusual. He referred to it as the 'mating season' for Jihadis, where they come in hordes. The top shot mujahids and area commanders come in November/December/January.

But sadly, this "mating season" is turning out to be pretty deadly for the predators also with us loosing so many SF men in large numbers.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 11 Apr 2009 22:25

Kashmir separatist to contest Indian polls

Flanked by senior People's Conference leaders, Lone said he would still challenge India's rule in Kashmir.

"My aim is to enter parliament and represent Kashmir in India," he said. "I am in my humble capacity trying to reorient our struggle and bring it in tune with the existing realities as I perceive them."

He said he would tell Indians that Kashmiris "don't want to remain with you and that they (Indians) need to address this issue."

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 11 Apr 2009 22:39

Gerard wrote:Kashmir separatist to contest Indian polls
Flanked by senior People's Conference leaders, Lone said he would still challenge India's rule in Kashmir.

"My aim is to enter parliament and represent Kashmir in India," he said. "I am in my humble capacity trying to reorient our struggle and bring it in tune with the existing realities as I perceive them."

He said he would tell Indians that Kashmiris "don't want to remain with you and that they (Indians) need to address this issue."

I guess no one can contest elections unless he declares his solemn allegiance and subservience to Union of India and Constitution of India. right?

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 11 Apr 2009 22:58

Reports of Taliban infiltrating into Kashmir hoax: Farooq

Srinagar (PTI): National Conference chief and former Chief Minister Farooq Abdullah has called the recent reports suggesting that Taliban has sneaked into Kashmir as "mere hoax" and termed them detrimental to the state's economy which is heavily dependent on tourism. Appearing in a discussion programme on Doordarshan, he suggested that it might be an attempt by some to play to the galleries when American special envoy to the region Richard Holbrooke was in India.

"I don't know who is spreading this 'Sosha' (hoax). It is not true. May be it was aimed at playing to the galleries as America's Richard Holbrooke was in India", he said. However, Mr. Abdullah didn't elaborate on who were behind it. He also urged the media to present a positive picture of the region to the outside world. "We want people from outside to visit Kashmir so that our economy gets a boost", he said.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holn ... 111605.htm

The extent to which the PC will go to obfuscate the matter is so rotfl-able. Behind all this posturing, is a dhimmi plea to not hurt their H&D more.

Hurriyat reacts cautiously to Sajad Lone's decision to contest

Srinagar (PTI): The Hurriyat Conference on Saturday reacted cautiously to the decision of Peoples Conference chairman Sajad Gani Lone to contest parliamentary elections, saying it was his personal decision. "This is his personal decision (to contest elections). We have nothing to do with it," acting chairman of Hurriyat Conference Maulana Mohammad Abbas Ansari told PTI. He claimed elections were no solution to the Kashmir issue. {If so, why is Sajjad taking part?}

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holn ... 112125.htm

Kashmir’s ‘Kasab’ story casts light on NWFP threat --- Praveen Swami
Dir-based terror groups recruiting cadre with Taliban protection
http://www.hindu.com/2009/04/11/stories ... 111000.htm

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 11 Apr 2009 23:10

Seems like Yasin Malik, Syed Gilani, Mir Waiz Umer Farooq, PDP and now Farooq Abdullah are saying the theory is bogus. The first three dont want any Amrikan big-eyes that goes with the word Taleeb, but only want Amrikan intervention minus the Taleeb cause, the fourth says economy will get shambled with hoax news. OTOH, the J&K police claims an intercept for the theory. The armed forces "confirm" this theory saying that the fighting capabilities of the new oiseaules is much more than the ones who used to get pesticized, but officially deny it to the GoI in their reports. The police say they are not making it a big deal cos it will lead to some sense of Amrikan involvement.

From google, the first Taliban in Kashmir report in the recent times has come from Indian express and NDTV, April 7, 2009.
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/talib ... ey/444616/
http://www.cricketndtv.com/convergence/ ... 0090090028
But on April 6 and April 5, Xinhua reports the same in a short form:
http://english.people.com.cn/90001/9077 ... 30313.html
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009- ... 135324.htm
which gets picked up later and reported in detail elsewhere. But till then, NDTV, IBNLive and Rediff had only been talking about threat in J&K during the election season, how the Taleebs are so close to the LoC, and "advisories" to the armed forces to not lose watch, as if they would if these idiots did nt say so.

For the record, I checked PTI and this is what I found for April 5

New Delhi, Apr 5 (PTI) The militancy scenario in the northern Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir may change as wireless and satellite intercepts suggest presence of a group of nearly 15 'Taliban' militants in higher reaches of Kupwara in north Kashmir. While all central security forces and agencies and the Army are tight-lipped over the development, sources in the Home Ministry said wireless messages of a group of militants holed up in Chowkibal area of Trehgham in Kupwara were intercepted. Another such communication was heard in Lolab area, also in Kupwara, they said.

The intercepts, the sources claimed, were enough to "shock" the security agencies as one group identified itself as being part of the Taliban which had crossed the Line of Control using the Global Positioning System (GPS)-enabled maps. The sources said a gun-battle was already on in the area for last five days and even the Army was encountering tough resistance from the group believed to be numbering between 10 and 15. So far the two militants from the group are believed to have fallen to the bullets of the Army but their bodies are yet to be found due to heavy gun fire from the militants' side, the sources said. In the intercept, the sources said, militants of Lashkar-e-Taiba, suspected to be behind the Mumbai carnage, were heard asking the Taliban to go back but the militants had refused to go by it. PTI

http://www.ptinews.com/pti%5Cptisite.ns ... enDocument

The funny part is, on April 5, Xinhua says the following:

Indian security forces have launched a massive search operation in India-controlled Kashmir's Kupwara district near the Line of Control (LoC) with Pakistan after intelligence agencies intercepted message suggesting Taliban militants could have infiltrated into the area, a senior Indian Home Ministry official said Sunday.

A senior Indian HM official talks to Xinhua in confidence and none of the Indian news agencies report it for more than 2 days..... Kyaa bakwaas hai? To make it more insinuating, the chinese outlet says

"Moreover, security forces have also gunned down two suspected Taliban fighters at Tregam in Kupwara. We suspect they're here to disrupt the general elections and destabilize the country ahead of the democratic process," the official said, on condition of anonymity.

This condition of anonymity is a cloak and dagger for my agenda, especially when you want to create a sensational bullcrap. How does Xinhua know more than PTI?

When I dig up more on the Xinhua reporter, Wang Guanqun, on his articles on "India-matters", I get the following lead, dated March 28, 2009:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009- ... 088252.htm
India imposes anti-dumping duty on Chinese yarns and fabrics
If I have to use my intuition on what I know of the brothels across the border, this Taleeb bs is a plant spiced up to create some hysteria possibly because of the dumping issue, which the DDM has followed upon, and gotten some juicy tidbits from the J&K police, which they have used to create more hysteria and panic and sensationalism to coincide with Dick Holbrooke's arrival. At the end of the day, understand the chinese by going after the money. The soft and hard jehadis are browning their pants cos it brings intrusive looks from unkil, just more than what they can handle. In some sense, a PR exercise gone bad from their PoV.

ravit · Post by **ravit** » 12 Apr 2009 00:28

FWIW, from orbat.com

The Indian army is pulling troops out of Ladakh and Jammu provinces and redeploying them to Kashmir; reinforcements from outside the theatre are starting to come in.

Needless to say, this is absolutely Not A Good Thing. The Indians have so many troops in Kashmir as a normal thing there is no need to bring in reinforcements just because the Pakistanis have started infiltrating again.

If the army is reinforcing, its because its getting ready for something. That something could be as small as a Special Force strike across the Line of Control against terror camps in Kashmir, but it could also be a major 72-hour air-land operation on a large scale, with the army prepared for Pakistani escalation all the way to total war.

Anabhaya · Post by **Anabhaya** » 12 Apr 2009 03:47

Just how credible is Orbat.com ?

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 12 Apr 2009 06:54

“The decision was not an easy one to arrive at. But I then keenly analysed the ground realities, the desire of the people for progress,” Mr Lone said. “Kashmiris have signalled that they desire progress and expect the leadership to give up any delusions of grandeur, the peddling of failed methods or escapism, and most of all, to avoid tendencies towards defeatism,” he said. “We must admit that we (separatists) have failed to translate the sustained defiance of the Kashmiri people into deliverance,” he said.

The decision to contest the polls is with “a commitment to represent the Kashmiris and take the strength and merits of our aspirations to the central stage of India”. “I am trying to reorient our struggle and bring it in tune with the existing realities.”

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/internat ... -angry-719

sum · Post by **sum** » 12 Apr 2009 09:53

I for one am never in favour of the HC rats contesting elections since they get to wreak havoc officially if they get elected to the LS

skher · Post by **skher** » 12 Apr 2009 12:06

sum wrote: Wow, so we managed to catch eight hardcore pigs alive? Thats amazing work though i hope the IA has kept their date with the 72 ready once all the juice has been extracted. (I would also assume that this was one of the reasons for the info blackout to avoid letting the handlers know of the fate of their disciples. Maybe, the objectives of the IA like busting sleeper cells based on piggie info were met and so, info is slowly being leaked out)

here's another worry, one of the terrorists caught entered India via Nepal confirming an old suspicion that the eastern borders are being increasingly used to enter India.
So this guy walked into India, went back and tried to come back through dangerous snowy conditions?

Hopefully,info leaked out is disinformation or things 'they already know that we know'.

sum sa'ab, perhaps the Tibetan 'Autonomous' region has been "independently" assisting the porks cross the pines.

Pak to BD->BD to Burma->Burma to Yunnan/TAR->Yunnan/TAR to Nepal->Nepal grease palms, disguise as Terai Hindu->Finally,India border..then to JK arms stash.

Phew,in my imagination,terrorism has been made hard work in the recession [of sheparishtizm] era.

sum saar,the following is the zero-sum game/flowchart for the 'Lone man.

The sheparishtz will not get elected in the phrist-fast-dee-pole sistem.Eveen if they do,cannot do squat with so many things happening in the JK political sphere...Jammu/Ladakh separatism,development issues,young CM enjoying significant majority.

The Lone ballotman is sure to get arrested after giving a 'inspirational' speech like Lalu Yadav or Vaiko, as is the current trend.

If not,Power corrupts.he'll be restricted by the locals' frustration and current obsession for developmental issues-promotion of which is abhorred by jernails of his home.

QED,his hands are very much tied & sole aim is to distract forces for personal security & electioneering.

jmt

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 12 Apr 2009 16:52

Srinagar: One militant was killed in an encounter with security forces in Pulwama district of Jammu and Kashmir on Sunday morning.

The encounter broke out at the village of Aglar, where militants hiding in a house opened fire on the security forces during search operations, a defence ministry spokesman said.

He said one militant, yet to be identified, has been killed in a retaliatory fire so far, adding that the encounter was still going on.

whatever time it takes , we must not loose any precious Jawan in this encounter

Ardeshir · Post by **Ardeshir** » 12 Apr 2009 18:00

sum wrote:
Prasant wrote:I spoke to an officer in the Paras posted in the forward areas, and he's said that it's nothing unusual. He referred to it as the 'mating season' for Jihadis, where they come in hordes. The top shot mujahids and area commanders come in November/December/January.
But sadly, this "mating season" is turning out to be pretty deadly for the predators also with us loosing so many SF men in large numbers.

Yes true, especially because I have friends and family involved. The said Para officer will very soon be flying into the thick of things, so I can only hope our guys will be safe and suffer minimal losses.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 13 Apr 2009 07:30

There was no mosque in Ayodhya: Ghulam Ali Azad

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 14 Apr 2009 21:55

jamwal wrote: JwalaMukhi

Do you really believe that deaths ofa few soldiers in some remote forest will force Indian governemt to take some concrete steps? This govt lacked spine to attack Pakisatan even after Bombay attacks. What makes you think that some deaths in "routine" encounters will make them act different?

Jamwal, sorry had to wait this long to get a response. As more time passes more information might come to light.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/apr/14w ... ll-eve.htm

The strange timing of the visit leads inevitably to the question whether there is more in it than meets the eye. Can it be that the Americans wanted to press on the government, regardless of its electoral fate, demands that they felt could not wait and that somehow they could bring the government round to comply with them and leave the fait accompli for the successor government?

For all the denials and protestations, there is every possibility that this was the mission of Holbrooke and Admiral Mullen during their recent recent visit to India. Right or wrong, there is a buzz that Holbrooke is inherently sympathetic to Pakistan's susceptibilities. Pakistan, as per the columnist of Islamonline.net, has been 'delighted' by Holbrooke's appointment as Special Envoy and its Foreign Office spokesperson is on record hailing it as the harbinger of peace and stability in the region. Holbrooke is also known as 'the bulldozer' for his hard-hitting way of conducting business and for not taking no for an answer.

In the interests of public accountability and transparency, as also to avoid any future controversy, Narayanan and Menon should, with the permission of the government, come out with what actually transpired during their elaborately set-up discussions on the eve of election with Holbrooke and Admiral Mullen.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Apr 2009 23:47

Can we trawl the net to find the first reporting of the Taliban in J&K story please? It would settle the matters.

I think Holbrooke is married to a Muslim woman.BTW, he is a former director of AIG!

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 15 Apr 2009 00:04

His current (third) wife Kati Marton has Hungarian parents who hid their Jewish identity when they migrated to the US. She only discovered this while working on a book on Raoul Wallenberg. One of her grandparents died at Auschwitz.
Holbrooke himself is the grandson of German (mother) and Russian-Polish (father) Jews (both parents are atheists) and was vice chairman at Credit Suisse First Boston and Perseus LLC

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 15 Apr 2009 00:13

http://www.expressindia.com/news/kashmi ... _id=444616
Wednesday, April 08, 2009 at 1121 hours IST

“An official confirmation about the presence of Taliban militants in Kashmir means direct American intervention at some level, as Americans have now been chasing Taliban every where they go,” a police officer said.
On the other hand, the Army officials engaged in the encounters in north Kashmir along LoC since March 20 say that the militants fought in the last three encounters appeared not to ordinary militants.

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... an/444587/
Posted: Apr 08, 2009 at 1228 hrs IST

Holbrooke's visit comes weeks before a general election and the government is not expected to make any commitments.
"So why is he coming now? Because the Americans want to engage India, draw them into the sphere on Afghanistan." an Indian government official said. "They are pushing for a dialogue between India and Pakistan because that is imperative for the American strategy for Afghanistan."

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 15 Apr 2009 00:15

ramana wrote:Can we trawl the net to find the first reporting of the Taliban in J&K story please? It would settle the matters.

I think Holbrooke is married to a Muslim woman.BTW, he is a former director of AIG!

IIRC it was indiatoday.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 15 Apr 2009 00:26

jamwal wrote:Army says not aware of Taliban presence in Valley

The sources said the infiltrators were highly motivated and trained carrying the latest weaponry and global positioning systems. "These militants are not the ones Army was used to confront during counter insurgency operations. But so far, all indicators point that they are mostly part of Lashkar, Jaish or Hizbul Mujahideen," they added.

JwalaMukhi saar,

IMHO, Americans don't have much to loose if Taliban increase their influence to J&K or few other parts of India. For all it's worth to them this diversion of jihadis might be helpful for them in short term in Afghanistan. Going by history, we cannot credit Americans with far-sightedness.

Apart from that, what difference does it make whether the terrorists entering J&K are officialy Taliban or not. Taliban, JeM, LeT, Hizbolla, Al Qaeda, all have same ideology and goals. Only locations are different. India needs to fight her own war. Relying on America for our security scares me

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 15 Apr 2009 00:36

jamwal wrote: India needs to fight her own war. Relying on America for our security scares me

Touche! Precisely, that's exactly what I was alluding too. Orchestrating a meeting, when elections are due, implied an urgency on the part of US, to extract concessions from GOI such that it is binding on India after the elections irrespective of results.
The response of GOI was not about befitting reply, but about what other compromises that could be yielded and ceded!!

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 15 Apr 2009 00:40

I never had many expecations from Congress govt. but if Americans were here for something like this..then even god can't help India.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Apr 2009 00:45

The sum total of all these stories is that the qaulity and training of the terrorists has improved. There is a need to ferret who coined the names for there is an implication behind that.

Hithertofore the TSP used to say they were giving support to locals. But we have seen all types of TSP dregs dieing in J&K. Now by invoking the Taliban someone is trying to imply that the Afghan pashtuns are now terrorising in J&K. IOW the terrorism is being internationalised. need to understand who is saying this and why?

BTW am not surprised that Indian Express and TOI are at the root of these stories. But they cant make up stuff from the air. So who is feeding them this and why is it at variance with the India Army spokesman's statements.