Indian Real Estate Sector

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 22 Apr 2009 19:32

Singha,
I got an offer to buy plot at Telecom layout, Sarjapur Rd. Supposedly, it is a BDA layout. I don't have any other details. Looked up Sarjapur Rd on Google Earth but didn't find any Telecom layout and there is just farm land on both sides of the road.
What is the general price point for that area and any guidance on the future prospects.
Thanks

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Apr 2009 23:51

why on earth do you want to buy something you cant see in person? would you marry
without seeing the girl in person?

that being said, you can join a group called "bdasites" on MSN groups and get some idea.
some people there have no other job than lusting after/gloating over their landed jaedad in
BLR! they know everthing.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 04 May 2009 00:49

milindc wrote:Singha,
I got an offer to buy plot at Telecom layout, Sarjapur Rd. Supposedly, it is a BDA layout. I don't have any other details. Looked up Sarjapur Rd on Google Earth but didn't find any Telecom layout and there is just farm land on both sides of the road.
What is the general price point for that area and any guidance on the future prospects.
Thanks

From experience, always get someone trustworthy to see what is going on (if you can't be there, and have someone who can go and check everything at a moments notice) and be able to verify everything on the ground.

If you are really interested, go to BLR to see everything for yourself, add that to your investment.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 06 May 2009 19:51

shyamd wrote:
milindc wrote:Singha,
I got an offer to buy plot at Telecom layout, Sarjapur Rd. Supposedly, it is a BDA layout. I don't have any other details. Looked up Sarjapur Rd on Google Earth but didn't find any Telecom layout and there is just farm land on both sides of the road.
What is the general price point for that area and any guidance on the future prospects.
Thanks
From experience, always get someone trustworthy to see what is going on (if you can't be there, and have someone who can go and check everything at a moments notice) and be able to verify everything on the ground.

If you are really interested, go to BLR to see everything for yourself, add that to your investment.

shyamd / singha,
Thanks for the guidance. I got more details on the property. It is BDA approved layout from Karnataka Telecom Employees Society on Attibele-Sarjapur Road (about 4 kms from Attibele Circle on Hosur Rd). I'm planning to visit the site before I sign the papers.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 May 2009 19:59

by any chance is it near the "net city layout" which was initially formed by BEML employees?
there is another named "spring gardens" behind it. I have a plot in that stretch

that area imo comes under BMRDA not BDA. the plot can be registered in sarjapur or attibele revenue
office. the khata and taxes need to be dealt in the local gram panchayat office usually.

BDA's current fiefdom imo extends to the proposed IRR and beyond that a green belt. the
attibele-sarjapur NH207 was still bmrda last I checked.

if you can spare the cash, its not a bad patch to buy some land. I expect population to
increase from attibele side since between varthur road to sarjapur circle there is still a
long empty patch of land to be filled up. one "confident developers" a mallu group has lot
of projects in nh207.

travelling from TN to blr last week, from hosur to blr is going to be a one continuous line
of flyovers. lot of construction going on.

the long uphills and downhills in krishnagiri were very beautful and the huge service plazas.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 06 May 2009 20:38

Singha,
I knew I asked the right person, who has plots sprinkled all over bangalore suburbs

I believe you are right, I see that there is some BEML layout adjacent to it.
Below is wikimaps link
http://wikimapia.org/2229870/Ayushman-B ... ve-society
and the society link
http://ktdecoopsoci.com/b_ayushmanbhava.html

Any idea on the price. The person is known and has helped my Bangalore based family members..
started out with 850 psft for either a 40*60 or 50*80 plot. I think it is negotiable, I will visit the area personally and try to find some details. The guy claims that some villas are adjacent to the layout and prices are about 1000-1200 psft.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 07 May 2009 02:12

Tata Announces Shubh Griha: the Rs 4 Lakh House!

http://www.business-standard.com/india/ ... ng/357339/

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage ... apartments

http://profit.ndtv.com/2009/05/06225105 ... s-for.html

It's the Tata Nano of Housing!

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 07 May 2009 02:27

All the real estate companies(TATA and Neptune group) are taking advantage of the high rates prevelant in main Metro area's and pushing these Nano size houses in far-off locations(80-100 KMs from Mumbai).The Land cost would have been very very low and these companies are making a killing selling the houses at 1800 per sq ft.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 07 May 2009 02:56

Well, I don't know where the cost savings are being achieved - through high volume maybe?

Are these apartment flats, or houses? Or both?

Still, as long as the consumer is winning, that's what counts.

It seems that these new subdivisions/neighborhoods will be getting wider infrastructure and facilities, which is nice. You need power, water, sewage, etc.

If lower-cost high-volume production will allow all of this to be built at significant savings, then why not? Ideally, it would be nice to see more than just residential areas and supporting infrastructure being built this way -- the best bet would probably be to have all of this spring up around SEZ/industrial areas, so that you'd have a ready labour pool available to support the SEZs, and likewise reciprocally there would be employment within convenient reach of these residential areas.

Perhaps transportation infrastructure should be the ultimate driving factor, since then it all boils down to being able to live within commuting distance of work, or reciprocally being able to work within commuting distance of where you live.

I've always wondered if urban planning and fractal geometry could somehow be brought together to replicate such a model across the fuller geographical landscape. How do those videogames like Civilization do it?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 07 May 2009 04:39

^^^

A 283 Sq.Ft flat at 3.9 Lakhs works out to be ~ Rs. 1375 Per Sq.FT.

Assuming a Rs. 900/Sft construction cost, which gives a good quality of construction, Rs.475 will be the cost of land.

Assuming the apartments will be constructed with 4 floors and 40% of the land is allocated for roads, parks and other amenities leaving 60% utilization the land at this location, 80 KM from Mumbai, must be costing Rs. 6.19 Crores per acre.

What is the true price of land 80KM from Mumbai proper?

Is this true value for money? Is this cheap housing?

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 07 May 2009 07:41

This Nano flat business is clearly a rip off at ~ Rs 1300 per sqft. so far from town. Even in places where there hardly is any land available easily, one can buy flats in this current market at ~ Rs1500-2000 per sqft.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 May 2009 09:06

started out with 850 psft for either a 40*60 or 50*80 plot. I think it is negotiable, I will visit the area personally and try to find some details. The guy claims that some villas are adjacent to the layout and prices are about 1000-1200 psft.

ok I see where it is. how far is it from the Exide factory? there is a road opp the road to indus intl school
that leads to the exide factory. some people are wary of what pollution the battery could have caused.

the villas are the Confident group project right after the circle from sarjapur side. its complete and people
are living there. you can see them from the road.

I bought mine@850 psft at the peak a couple of yrs back. u can probably negotiate it in the 700-800 range.
cant be too many real buyers in the market these days.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 May 2009 09:08

BBMP took out a massive full page ad in TOI today saying the entire DLF project in bannerghatta road is not
properly approved and warning clients to stay away from it. crimes range from getting only G+4 approvals so far
but booking all floors?

since 100% of builders have indulged in such things here, methinks its a warning shot across the bow from
higher players to DLF to "make peace/break bread together" before they will be allowed to operate here.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 07 May 2009 16:51

1800 Rs per sq ft is the price which is being asked for another mass housing aka Nano home project at Khopoli near Bombay.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 07 May 2009 18:32

Singha wrote:BBMP took out a massive full page ad in TOI today saying the entire DLF project in bannerghatta road is not
properly approved and warning clients to stay away from it. crimes range from getting only G+4 approvals so far
but booking all floors?

since 100% of builders have indulged in such things here, methinks its a warning shot across the bow from
higher players to DLF to "make peace/break bread together" before they will be allowed to operate here.

I think you are 100% right there. Way back in 2003-4, Brigade offered their Gateway project in Rajajinagar long before approvals came at Rs 1800 psft. They wanted Rs 5 lakh deposit too with the booking straightway on an unapproved project.. I ran away screaming, since their customer support was pathetic from my initial interactions. Some of my friends who bought there later have no clue when they will finally deliver. They are two years behind already.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 May 2009 20:55

builders are on the ropes, unable to pay even their labour who have decamped back to home states, no customers, banks rejecting loans to tide them over, firings of staff. work has virtually halted in many major projects around blr.

sobha unveiled a plan today per ET to sell 400 acres of their land bank and also hive off their wooden fittings , interior design and mattress making inhouse business units. and this is a relatively well managed and listed company, the scene is murkier in pvtly held cos.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 07 May 2009 23:13

A real Nano flat should cost no more than Rs1000 per sqft. Anything that costs more will not do big wonders, since they will have to make the flat size smaller.

IMO 500sqft should be the minimum for a 1/2 bd flat to live comfortably. If they are peddling stuff at 250sqft level then you will see spillover into the streets as people will start spending greater amounts of time outside to get fresh air. This is what happens in all big shanty towns in India. Kolkata is a good example of that. Even bathing, cleaning utensils take place on the street.

These newly planned developments are not planned as shanty towns hopefully, but they will soon end up as one if not provided with sufficient inside space for people to feel not all cooped up.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 08 May 2009 06:31

.

What is raw construction cost these days for a 4 story building with one lift, semi-luxious having say 6 800 sq ft flats on each floor? Juts a rough estimate? Ignore the cost of land.

.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 08 May 2009 07:10

When Tata launched Nano, they played 2001: A Space Odyssey

But now they're launching their new low-cost housing, and what do they play?

Do I detect a bit of Battlestar Galactica?

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 08 May 2009 07:14

MSNBC:

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 09 May 2009 07:39

Rahul Mehta wrote:.

What is raw construction cost these days for a 4 story building with one lift, semi-luxious having say 6 800 sq ft flats on each floor? Juts a rough estimate? Ignore the cost of land.
.

From what I heard

The concrete structure costs Rs 300-350 per SFT
Add Rs 50 for wood work - doors and windows
Add Rs 100 for plumbing and toilets
Add Rs 100 for Electric works
Add Rs 100 for finishing
Add Rs 50 for flooring
---------------------------

You are looking at minimum 700-800 Rs per SFT for a livable quality work.

P.S: I am not a civil engg or in construction field...

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 09 May 2009 11:04

Beyond the skimping on the actual construction, they seem to be relying on the idea of going to cheaper locations far from the main cities, and then building a full community from scratch, complete with local amenities. That's not bad, because instead of relying on being near an existing city or major town, you're practically making a brand new township yourself.

The Las Vegas strategy?

Only a large collaboration of builders could create such a comprehensive environment. This is what the capital-intensive approach is all about.

Here is the Shubh Griha website, showing floorplans:

http://www.shubhgriha.com/pages/plans.php

Wow!
Hey, what is that in the living room - big flatscreen TV?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 May 2009 11:15

I have a feeling ITvity badboy types and korrupt mid-senior managers wanting a lovenest/drinking den to cavort with their gf's and mistresses might buy in one the cheap and take off on weekends for "client meetings in mumbai/delhi"

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 09 May 2009 11:23

^^^ Nothing misses Singha's tivr drishti!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 May 2009 11:30

some people develop a solution and then look for a problem where that soln will fit.

the best marketeers work from people's unmet needs and craft solutions to meet them.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 09 May 2009 11:50

From the pictures, it seems like they're mainly going in for 3-level buildings. That seems to fit the profile of the joint-family, with 3 generations living together under one roof.

3 stories seems just right. Not too big, not too small. It won't give that large, congested, urban neighborhood feel. And it won't be a low-density cottage country either.

Maybe this could become the future of Indian suburbia. Indians will buy their cheap Tata Nanos to commute to work from their surburban small-footprint 3-level homes.
Hell, a few Nanos will fit in even the smallest driveway.

They forgot to draw in the satellite dishes protruding from all the rooftops. None of them seems to have a veranda or balcony. Poor Mr Kasab will feel disappointed living in one of those. But on the other hand, balconies can sometimes look unsightly from the street. Will there at least be air-conditioning on the higher-end models?

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 09 May 2009 11:57

Also, notice the shops/storefronts on the bottom levels.

This would integrally situate business workplaces for the local inhabitants, with families living above their stores/shops/etc, as so many do.

This creates a functioning "ecosystem" (bleh, how Indians love that word for business) right away, to keep a community economically humming along.

So the idea seems to me that people living in Boisar, 100km south of Mumbai, wouldn't be commuting all the way to Mumbai. They would be living and working in the same district.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 May 2009 12:01

is there any law in india that >N storeys need a lift? I lived in a complex in ncr which was 4 storeys but no lift
a decade ago. 3 storeys would surely be < N and hence avoid the cost of a lift.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 09 May 2009 12:04

I think 3 and above need a lift these days. Thats what our builder told us when he started off another project. Atleast in chennai, that seems to be the norm. Not sure if its pan-india.

Raju · Post by **Raju** » 09 May 2009 12:59

In dilli, more than 4 floors and lift is mandatory.

Lift is pure PITA since initial outlay is around 10 L and can stretch to over 50 as per choice of the customer. Annual outlay is around 1 L for AMC each year.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 09 May 2009 13:18

tsriram wrote:I think 3 and above need a lift these days. Thats what our builder told us when he started off another project. Atleast in chennai, that seems to be the norm. Not sure if its pan-india.

This seems to be a pan-India norm. Even in my small little city/town, builders now usually go for the G+2 scheme (Ground Floor+two storeys). The advantage is that they don't require a lift or a fire escape in the out-side walls of the building. Secondly the empty area which neads to be all around the building (for fire brigade to comfortably use their equipment) is also lesser.

I an apartment complex which is around 12 stories high, I have noticed two lifts (a passenger lift and a kind of service lift which can carry stretchers), a fire escape on the outside part of the building, dedicated power transformer etc. They also have fire pumps, hoses etc. kept in pre-marked locations.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 09 May 2009 20:07

Look at the specs on these homes:

http://www.shubhgriha.com/pages/specifications.php

Living Rooms

* 2' * 2' ceramic/porcelain tile flooring
* Oil bound distemper on internal walls
* Sliding plain aluminium windows
* Finish flush door for main entrance

Bedroom

* 2' * 2' ceramic tile flooring
* Solid core flush door
* Rooms to have overhead storage space

Kitchen

* Ceramic tile flooring
* Granite/Marble platform with stainless steel sink
* 2' high ceramic tile dado above kitchen platform
* Overhead storage space

Bathroom/Toilets

* Separate bathroom and toilet
* Anti-skid ceramic tile flooring
* Ceramic tile dado up to door height
* Concealed plumbing
* Premium quality fittings
* Commode with flush

Electrical Fittings

* Sufficient point in all rooms
* Branded electrical switches
* Cable TV & telephone points in the living room
* Concealed electrical wiring

They seem to be promising a quality product.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 09 May 2009 20:18

What really seems to make Tata's offering stand out is the development of wider community facilities and amenities:

Recreation Facilities

* Large community hall
* Playground
* Green landscaped seating area
* Markets for shopping
* Jogging track
* Benches and pathways for pleasure walks

Outdoor Facilities

* Beautiful landscaped gardens
* Ample area for parking
* Open market area
* Vermiculture
* Rainwater harvesting
* Medicinal plantation

Facilities

* Hospital
* Schools
* Bus stop with bus service to Boisar railway station and MIDC area
* Gated development

This is a comprehensive capital-intensive approach that would elevate the value/attraction/appeal of entire regional areas, rather than just particular properties or plots of land.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 09 May 2009 20:56

It looks better than I first thought and Boisar seems to be developed town with steel plants (tata & jindal) and a BARC housing colony. Did not realise TAPS was so close to Mumbai.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 09 May 2009 22:19

With Tata Nano for commuting, and low-cost outlying Nano homes for convenient living, the new suburbia lifestyle will mushroom.

This would either mean a ridiculous spike in the cost of oil/gas, or else it will require the erection of efficient mass transportation services, or else we'll have to see a much improved electrical power generation infrastructure for electric vehicles. Or, more likely, a combination of all of these.

If more dedicated high-speed rail lines could be created to link such townships, then this could go a long way towards facilitating commutes between urban business centres and comfortable living spaces.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 09 May 2009 22:25

India needs to depend on rails for all kinds of commutes, daily to work and weekly shopping and pleasure trips to the nearest city from the suburbs. Cars should be the secondary means of transport.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 09 May 2009 23:03

Well, isn't Brazil famous for its mega-buses, and rocket bus services (ie. frequent runs) for rapid transit?

http://www.urbanhabitat.org/node/344

http://thelongestlistofthelongeststuffa ... ng260.html

We should take a look at these ideas, to see if we can benefit from them.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 10 May 2009 12:23

Bade wrote:India needs to depend on rails for all kinds of commutes, daily to work and weekly shopping and pleasure trips to the nearest city from the suburbs. Cars should be the secondary means of transport.

Exactly my thoughts. The railways (metros, suburban and regular main line routes) needs to be developed and modernised. One thing I noticed during my travels in US and in the Europe is that in US you are pretty much useless without a car. Where as, in Europe you still have a good public transport network which is efficient and cheaper. What I understand is that in US the railway lines were systematically removed by the car-barons, who purchased the railway companies. People were slowly forced to use cars.

Raju · Post by **Raju** » 10 May 2009 12:35

can anyone suggest me some low-cost (less than 1000sq ft) flats/housing projects in Palakkad ?

Need an alternate outpost to enjoy dilli-like dry weather in kerala during monsoons.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 10 May 2009 22:20

Sachin wrote:
Bade wrote:India needs to depend on rails for all kinds of commutes, daily to work and weekly shopping and pleasure trips to the nearest city from the suburbs. Cars should be the secondary means of transport.
Exactly my thoughts. The railways (metros, suburban and regular main line routes) needs to be developed and modernised. One thing I noticed during my travels in US and in the Europe is that in US you are pretty much useless without a car. Where as, in Europe you still have a good public transport network which is efficient and cheaper. What I understand is that in US the railway lines were systematically removed by the car-barons, who purchased the railway companies. People were slowly forced to use cars.

This is very true. The large automobile companies bought up public transport companies and shut them down. The supported the Republicans who stopped any government attempt to build up a viable public transport network.