Strategic leadership for the future of India

[svinayak]

Need to get the number of professional Indians who have joined primary membership of any political parties in India.

[ramana]

Conversion is being used as strategy to create new votebank in Southern States. The nationalists have to come up with an alternate for those poor folks.

[brihaspati]

A new Vasaveshwara? Not sure whether we can mention him, though. Will he be considered a "H****" and therefore politically incorrect?

[Pranav]

Ramana Saar, the rot started much earlier - I remember reading about an Army Jeeps import scam under Nehru.

IMHO, besides prosperity and self-awareness what is needed is an education in real-politic. The vast majority of people are too naive and heavily indoctrinated. Kautilya and Sun Tzu should be a part of the civics curriculum.

Now, it is unlikely that this will be high on the agenda of the powers that be. So I suppose it is upto voluntary organizations to leverage the power of modern technology to reach a mass audience.

Rahul Mehtaji, Need to ensure wide spread prosperity and self awareness of India. This ensures they dont need extra money from outside and have self pride in themselves. Rajiv Gandhi's corruption in Bofors was to get rid of the Indian business man funding the INC. So he tried to skim the GOI money, for thats what it means as Bofors will pass the costs back to the purchaser ,and parked this in Swiss banks. Fromhere the rot started. If you saw the tele-serial Chanakya thats what Dhananda does and unleashes forces beyond his control.

The AIT reduced the self-pride and makes them think of themselves as conquered people. New genetic evidence is showing that the whole world is populated from out of India and language developed here and spread out.

[Rahul Mehta]

Rahul Mehtaji, Need to ensure wide spread prosperity and self awareness of India. This ensures they dont need extra money from outside and have self pride in themselves. Rajiv Gandhi's corruption in Bofors was to get rid of the Indian business man funding the INC. So he tried to skim the GOI money, for thats what it means as Bofors will pass the costs back to the purchaser ,and parked this in Swiss banks. Fromhere the rot started. If you saw the tele-serial Chanakya thats what Dhananda does and unleashes forces beyond his control.

The AIT reduced the self-pride and makes them think of themselves as conquered people. New genetic evidence is showing that the whole world is populated from out of India and language developed here and spread out.

The citizens are aware and concerned about problems. Awareness is ample. Even lower middle class people, some barely 4th class pass, tell me about Bangladeshi problems, corruption in Gujarat High Court judges, preferential voting (!) and so forth. But there is complete lack of information on how West solved these problems, and so indecision on which way to go. The intellectuals like Arun Shourie, A Roy etc were on West payroll and so ensure that Indian citizens never ever come to know about laws (recall, Jury etc) using which citizens of West tamed their policemen, babu etc. So citizens of India have come to believe that problems of India are unsolvable. So AFAIT, we need to

1. Inform citizens about laws in West, India
2. Drafts laws we propose
3. Inform them about drafts

This will create an opinion in citizens about what way should we go.

------

1. Conversion is being used as strategy to create new votebank in Southern States.
2. The nationalists have to come up with an alternate for those poor folks.

We are already too late for plan. Its time we DRAFT the laws that would reduce poverty and ask parties to propose these laws in Parliament. If these parties, such as Congress, BJP, CPM etc refuse to proper laws in Parliament, then we have abuse and insult them in public, and form a new party.

Following are the LAWS I propose to reduce poverty :

1. Give mine royalties and land rent from GoI plots (such as IIM plots, airports plots etc) directly commons.

2. Enact 35% inheritance tax over Rs 2 cr per heir. The proceeds go to War Ministry

3. Enact 1% a year on mkt value wealth tax on non agricultral land above 25 sqm per person (50sqm per senior citizen) and 50 sqm construction (100 sqm for senior citizen). The tax on companies and trusts be 2% as they dont have inheritance tax. The proceeds go to War Ministry, Anti-Crime Ministry (aka Police) and Imprisonment Affairs (aka Courts).

4. Enact recall laws to reduce corruption, because unless corruption decreases small people will NOT be able to run industries and so actual GDP growth rate will remain low. And recall laws are the ONLY known ways to reduce corruption that citizenkind had discovered in past 5000 years.

5. If someone has DRAFTS of the laws he thinks are better than above, I would request him to post the drafts on website he likes and post URLs here.

[sarcasm ON] OR else we start a loooooong whinathon bashing Macualay, Marx, CPM, CPI, Missionaries, MNCs, Sauds, Congress etc. And we also throw mud, bile, filth etc on Indian Hindu voters for not voting for people like Pramod or people who support Pramod. The Hindus will get scared of our mud throwing and will perhaps elect Pramod next time. [sarcasm OFF]

However, if we refuse to ask MPs to pass the DRAFTS of the laws we propose, then we can wait for Christianists to take over India.

---------------

Need to get the number of professional Indians who have joined primary membership of any political parties in India.

Some of the parties which have many many professionals are

1. Professional Party of India
2. Jago Party

My Party, "Right to Recall" Party is yet unregistered and so membership list is unofficial only.

[Pranav]

2. Enact 35% inheritance tax over Rs 2 cr per heir. The proceeds go to War Ministry

RM ji, one needs to be careful. Inheritance tax is usually used by oppressive regimes to destroy native elites. The taxes will only end up enriching oppressors who control government.

With the government under the control of oppressors, the only hope for change is grass-roots political outreach. People may volunteer some of their time, but it also takes money to start media outlets and run re-education campaigns. If nobody outside the oppressor classes has any capital, then how will any such activity happen?

Also, having an impoverished population makes it easy to apply financial pressure on individuals, and that is also an important tool for maintaining control.

[Rahul Mehta]

From some link posted above

BJP: 10 year plan for Rejuvenation

I had a heartbreaking weekend, the second such time in 5 years - the last time was in May 2004 when the BJP got a shock defeat in the general elections. That time the feelings were of shock, disbelief and anger. This time it is more of disappointment and heartbreak. At the outset let me confess that I have been a BJP supporter since I can remember. My initiation began in the early 90's, during the Ram Janmabhoomi movement. I had just entered my teens and vividly remember a feeling of thrill and excitement on my initiation to political awareness. I have since grown into adulthood being a passionate BJP supporter. So that explains the heartbreak. As the disappointment of the May 16 results sink in, a myriad stream of thoughts are racing through my mind. And out of this churning came a plan for the reinvention and rejuvenation of the BJP.

The fundamental problem with BJP is that they don't have a credible presence in about 160 seats out of 543 seats of Lok Sabha. If you draw a line on India's map starting from Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh and up to Weat Bengal, BJP is at best a fringe player. And in the two states of Orissa and UP where the BJP was a credible player they have dangerously lost ground. If you add up all these seats it comes upto a whopping 245 seats which is 45% of the Lok Sabha. BJP cannot hope to come to power at the center with a presence in just 55% of India. The party had a meteoric rise in the 90's under the twin leadership of Vajpayee & Advani and reached a peak of 180 seats in 1999. But after that it just hit a plateau. BJP became complacent and "outsourced" several key states to regional parties.

2009 marks the beginning of the end of coalition era in Indian politics. The dynasty is back with a bang in the Congress and they are taking back the space they vacated in the 90's. My reading is that for another 10 years it is going to be a Congress rule in Delhi. Unless the dynasty self destructs(like a Bofors scam), in the next Lok Sabha elections in 5 years the Congress will get a majority on it's own. If the BJP has to evolve as a credible alternative to the Congress, they will have to sincerely work to expand the party's presence in 45% of the country I mentioned. They have to get out of the NDA mode, the era of coalitions is over. BJP needs a new set of Vajpayee & Advani kind of leadership who will selflessly work to take the party to the next level. If they dont, the big loser will be the country. Congress and the dynasty will lord over India and we'll see the return of the arrogant Congress of 70's and 80's. Just as one big super power with no checks & balances is a bad thing for the world, so it will be for Indian polity.

So here is my action plan for the BJP. The BJP will have to take the bottom up approach to New Delhi, which is to have strong leaders and presence in the states which will automatically add up to a strong claim to the Delhi throne. Today the BJP has a Narendra Modi, a Shivraj Chouhan, a Raman Singh, a Yedyurappa. The party needs 25 such names in every state of India. So for the next 5 years the state wise plan should be as follows:

1. Maharashtra - MNS is seriously hurting the BJP-Sena. Put all effort possible to bring about a rapprochement between the warring Thackeray cousins. If the party can pull off a BJP-Sena-MNS alliance for the October assembly elections they will pocket Maharashtra.

2. Haryana - Dump the Chautalas, they are a discredited party. Go it alone for the assembly elections(or tie up with a credible local party as a junior partner). The target should be to at least be a strong opposition party in the assembly and not give the Congress a walkover.

3. Bihar - Nitish is going to dump the BJP and do a Naveen Patnaick. The question is not if but when he will do it. So prepare for it and don't be caught napping like in Orissa. Aggressively retain BJP's turf and support, and in the next assembly elections when Nitish comes back to power(either on his own or with Congress support) the target should be to be the main opposition party and not cede the opposition space to Lalu.

4. Assam - There is good chance that the BJP-AGP combine can come to power in the next assembly elections. Work towards making the alliance work on the ground.

5. Kerala & Bengal - The communists are a discredit force in both these states. There is a golden opportunity to make both these states a tri-polar polity. The BJP has reasonable cadre base in both states. Work aggressively to expand the party base and groom a young leadership. Convince the people that the BJP can be a viable replacement for the communists in both the states. When the red forts crumble the BJP has to grab significant pieces of the cookie and not let Congress take it all.

6. Orissa - Naveen Patnaik is too popular to take on now. Bide your time and wait for him to slip or for anti-incumbency to set in. Meanwhile work to occupy Congress's space as the main opposition. Work towards making Orissa a tri-polar polity. When the next elections take place BJP should be in a position to win atleast 5 Lok Sabha seats on it's own.

7. Andhra Pradesh - Work to occupy the spaces of TRS and PRP, both these parties don't have credibility post elections. The BJP as a national party will have more credibility compared to these 2 parties. In the coastal region target the Kapu community for strength. Just as the BJP monopolized the Lingayath community in Karnataka they should go all out to woo the Kapu caste. Atleast get to a strength where for the next elections TDP will consider BJP as an equal partner to take on the Congress.

8. Tamil Nadu - A big opportunity will be opening up soon in TN with the inevitable fading of the grand old man Karunanidhi. There will be a bitter family war for succession. This will be a good opportunity to wean away a significant chunk of the DMK base. Smaller parties like the PMK & MDMK have been discredited. Try to co opt players like Vijaykanth into the BJP. Maybe even net Rajnikanth into BJP. The failure of Chiranjeevi in AP proves that filmstars on their own cannot win electoral success, but if they are part of a national party like the BJP they will have more credibility besides the resources of a national party. So strategy will be the same as in AP, build credible strength so that by the next elections Jayalalitha will consider BJP as an equal partner to take on the DMK-Congress alliance.

9. UP - This state is too big and complicated for any one person to tackle. BJP should make the bifurcation or trifurcation of UP as a big plank. Accordingly assign 2 or 3 leaders to specific geographical areas. The old leadership of the Ram Janmabhoomi movement era are past their due date. I would say, pick up Varun Gandhi for the western portion of UP and Yogi Adityanath for the poorvanchal portion. Both are young faces, have hindutva credentials and are charismatic. Short term target should be to emerge as the no. 2 in UP. Congress is for sure going to win the next assembly elections. Don't let Mayawati or Mulayam retain relevancy in UP, people are tired of them and they should be pushed to extinction.

10. Punjab, Karnataka, Chattishgarh, Jharkand, MP, Gujarat, Rajasthan, Delhi, HP, Uttaranchal - These states are already bipolar states between Congress & BJP. And BJP is doing well in many of these states. There may be anti-incumbency swings every 5 years which is normal. Concentrate on avoiding internal sabotage in these states. That should be relatively easy.
......

With suggestions like above, I am more than convinced now that BJP will get less than 100 seats in 2014.

In my field, I come across people who insist on product improvement, and I also come across people who dont give a zilch about product quality and improvement and believe that "you can sell sh1t by merely making a good marketing strategy". Look at above article. It goes on and on and on about how BJP should do campaigning (marketing), alignments etc and talks NOTHING about how BJP should improve its "products" namely the laws and Govts it provides. IOW, the author of article insist that BJP should not waste time in product improvement but focus only on campaign strategies only.

IMO, BJP has excellent chance of getting 400 seats in 2014 if

1. it can reduce poverty in Gujarat, Karnataka, MP and other states it has
2. It can provide near zero corruption police in these states
3. It can provide near zero courts where cases get disposed in 2-3 months in above states
4. It abolishes VAT and imposes wealth tax using loop holes in the Constitution in these states
etc etc

But all these "product improvement" is something BJP workers are least interested in. And the reason is that BJP leaders have always taken a stand "dont worry about improving Govt; focus on campaign; focus on putting a brave posture before voters; focus on impressing voters." etc etc. So over time, they drove away product minded people out of BJP and now whole BJP has nothing but marketing specialist, with no one even capable of thinking of "product improvement".

Congress can live with such cr1p as MNCs own Congress, MNCs own media and so media will give image of Congress no matter what Congress does. RG will smile, and mediamen will say "see, how elegant his smile his". RG will cry, and mediamen will say "see, how touching his crying was". RG will make nonsense statements and mediamen will say "see, he is learning". But if BJP leader like Modi does smiles, mediamen will call him Nero. If he cries, mediamen will call him crybaby. And if he makes one non-nonsensical statement, mediamen will tear him apart.

So BJP does not have media, and so all campaign strategies of BJP will fail unless it becomes slave of MNCs. And so if BJP does not want to become slave of MNC and yet do good in election- the only option it has is to fix the Govt it has in various states and then show them as what they can do for others.

See you all tomorrow.

------------

ATTENTION ALL

There is a Tamil that "Voice of people is voice of God". I request all Tamils to cite me that saying in Tamil and also tell me how old that saying is. Pls, I need that saying ASAP to add it my new edition of the manifesto. In return, I will praise Tamil language and culture in my manifesto. So pls cite that saying in Tamil ASAP.

[Rahul Mehta]

2. Enact 35% inheritance tax over Rs 2 cr per heir. The proceeds go to War Ministry

1. RM ji, one needs to be careful. Inheritance tax is usually used by oppressive regimes to destroy native elites. The taxes will only end up enriching oppressors who control government.

2. With the government under the control of oppressors, the only hope for change is grass-roots political outreach. People may volunteer some of their time, but it also takes money to start media outlets and run re-education campaigns. If nobody outside the oppressor classes has any capital, then how will any such activity happen? Also, having an impoverished population makes it easy to apply financial pressure on individuals, and that is also an important tool for maintaining control.

A detailed discussion on tax laws isnt possible in this thread.

If you can convince admins to create a thread on discussion of tax laws, I can show how this flaw of inheritance tax can circumvented.

Or, you may pick any forum and post URL here and we can discuss it there.

[RamaY]

IMO, BJP has excellent chance of getting 400 seats in 2014 if

1. it can reduce poverty in Gujarat, Karnataka, MP and other states it has
2. It can provide near zero corruption police in these states
3. It can provide near zero courts where cases get disposed in 2-3 months in above states
4. It abolishes VAT and imposes wealth tax using loop holes in the Constitution in these states
etc etc

RM-ji

Same thoughts here. I proposed similar strategy in Election analysis thread.

All the above points should become BJP model of governance. Not some NM/Yeduyurappa/RamanSingh model of governance. Standardise all the laws that passed in BJP ruled states and the good-governance will spill over into other states. Establish a sound practical based Indic education system across all BJP ruled states with free mid-day meals program such as Akshaya Patra.

Once BJP implements these programs honestly and efficiently, all other parties must follow suit or perish. It will be same as how IT spread across various states even to WB.

When good governance becomes a norm, the next USP will take us to the strategic leadership of India.

Does BJP leadership has this vision?

[Pranav]

A detailed discussion on tax laws isnt possible in this thread.

If you can convince admins to create a thread on discussion of tax laws, I can show how this flaw of inheritance tax can circumvented.

Or, you may pick any forum and post URL here and we can discuss it there.

RM ji, I suppose a brief digression into tax laws ought be be permissible here. I am no tax expert, but will give whatever comments I have.

[aryank]

ATTENTION ALL

There is a Tamil that "Voice of people is voice of God". I request all Tamils to cite me that saying in Tamil and also tell me how old that saying is. Pls, I need that saying ASAP to add it my new edition of the manifesto. In return, I will praise Tamil language and culture in my manifesto. So pls cite that saying in Tamil ASAP.

Makkal Theerpu, Mahesan theerpu

[aryank]

From Mod of LK Advani.in forum

When a journey starts afresh...
by admin on Sat May 23, 2009 1:29 am

From the desk of the moderator....
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Dear Forum,

Your inputs are overwhelming. All the anger, disappointment, frustration though effectively manifested, have completely been overshadowed by your courage, resolve, enthusiasm & commitment. The surprising part is that forum has become very active after the unexpected results. [And to think that I was hoping to get some respite after 16th ! ].

This forum has truly become the voice of BJP and also a reflection of the mood of not just BJP’s support base but probably of the entire nation. Your suggestions, criticisms, advice, words of wisdom…. are incredibly valuable. However, in absence of any specific thread, you have posted your thoughts & suggestions all over the forum. We need to make that all cohesive and focussed.

Based on various suggestions received from our learned members, I am starting a new forum & a number of new threads. Please post here your suggestions, observations, i.e., reasons for the defeat as you see them, ways to overcome our mistakes and your ideas for strengthening the organization. In essence, do a SWOT [S-Strengths, W-Weaknesses, O-Opportunities, T- Threats] analysis for the party, if you can, & tell us the way forward as you deem right . In case, you have already posted your thoughts elsewhere, please re-submit them here in relevant thread.

Also, to kick start the discussion, let me take up a few points that have frequently been raised in this forum. But please note that the views expressed here are entirely mine and may or may not be of the party. Please free to challenge them if you feel the need to [But remember. Don’t be too harsh or I may edit them….. just kidding. ] :

Discussion point 1. BJP needs to own media

Probably, this is one of the most talked about issue/ demand in the forum. Almost every other member wants BJP to have a newspaper, a TV channel etc. Well, friends, I entirely DISAGREE.

We all know & say that media is biased. But are we not being prejudiced by assuming that ? And what if the media is biased ? Do we start to blow our own trumpet to counter it ? My answer is a firm NO. Why ?

First, a media is effective if it’s considered credible & impartial. By launching a party channel, wouldn’t we kill these two very parameters ? Besides, through our channel, are we planning to reach only our supporters [on the lines of Jaya TV or Sun TV]. Is whole of India not our audience ?

Secondly, As Arun Jaitley ji once said that let the message be stronger than the messenger. I agree.

Further, we must also understand that all these media houses are commercial ventures. They have their own limitations & traps. Gone are the days of media being nation’s conscience. Now, TRP is all that rules their collective conscience. They are out to exploit every opportunity that comes their way to increase their TRP. They get more eyeballs reporting a Bajrang Dal valentine day misadventure than MNS’ year-round hooliganism. Or reporting a Varun Gandhi over a non-entity called Imran Kidwai. So, why blame them ?

The solution, my friends, lies in tit-for-tat – शठे शाठ्यम समाचरेत् ….not that I consider media exactly a शठ [evil], but when they are out to exploit, we must also return the favour ! We must use their reach, their audience to further our cause. We must use these vast mediums to propagate our ideology & to reach out to, at least majority, if not all, of the 40 million odd households with TV connections. Yes, I repeat, we must USE them !

How we do that is the test of our skills. And believe me it’s not all that difficult. I can’t really discuss all the ways of doing that here. But, you wise guys can understand.

Also, one question to you all. How many of you have read Panchjanya & Organizer, leave alone subscribing to it ? Alright, these are RSS papers but at least you can’t call them biased towards BJP. How about Kamal Sandesh – BJP’s magazine. I guess you haven’t even heard of it ?[Check out : http://www.bjp.org/component/option,com ... temid,485/].

I think we should end this discussion here !

Discussion point 2 : Communal Tag

If anything that needs to be attacked with full force is this wrong, unjustified communal tag. I know almost all of us get dismayed when media calls us communal, or when BBC and Reuter refer to us as a Right wing, Hindu nationalist party or when Amar singh goes ad nauseam about “साम्प्रदायिक शक्तियां"(communal forces) bit.

We also see a lot of our well meaning Muslim, Christian friends here who get equally dismayed by this blatant lie. Why ? Because they know it’s a lie. They all know the truth. The truth that the BJP is a nationalist party that stands for every Indian cutting across all religions, castes, creed…. BJP believes in the ethos of India that is multi-religious, multi-cultural, multi-lingual, multi-ethnic yet it is ONE. For BJP, all citizens are equal – that’s why it wants equality for all & appeasement for none.

Yes, BJP has a larger base amongst the Hindu population. But it’s not because it’s a Hindu party, it’s because the Hindus essentially are secular and believe in universal brotherhood & peaceful existence. They also want an India which has a universal character and a peaceful coexistence. That’s why they root for BJP.

But friends, Congress, media & some self-centred, parochial political parties like SP, RJD, BSP, NC see the advantage in terming BJP as communal. Because that way they can arouse passions, hatred amongst us Indians & polarize religions and communities in the name of secularism. Remember, a lie told thousand times starts sounding like a truth. But in essence it remains a lie. Our task is to expose it.

We must tell all Indians – all our sections of society that BJP stands for all of US. They must see the truth. We want welfare & education for all. We don’t want to keep anybody poor or illiterate just to get their votes.

Friends, the country has to understand & specially our muslim brothers that BJP will never endorse or say that muslims have first right to country’s resources. Or for that matter, even Hindus having the first right to country’s resources. BJP will say that every citizen of this country has equal right to it’s resources. It does not matter what the race & religion of that person is. The only qualification the BJP asks for is that the person has to be an Indian – first & foremost. Now, it’s upto the muslims to decide who is communal – a PM & a party which tries to polarize the nation with such irresponsible statements or a party that wants equality for all.

Discussion point 3 - BJP's Ideology

What is BJP’s ideolgy ? Is it Hindutva ? NO. I don't really think so.

Hindutva is not BJP’s ideology, it is the nation’s ideology, it’s the Indian way of life over the centuries. Hindutva doesn’t mean Hinduism. But anyway, we are not discussing Hindutva here but BJP’s ideology.

BJP has it’s ideological moorings in Pt Deen Dayal Upadhyaya’s Integral Humanism [Propounded in a series of lectures in Mumbai from 22nd to 25th April, 1965]. I wonder how many of you have ever read it or even heard about it ! Why you, I guess a large number of our party people have not read it.

In essence what does Integral humanism say ? It propounds a system of governance that is suited to the Indian nation and its people, regardless of caste, religion or region, as the alternative for all round human development.

It also talks about Dharma. It says, “Dharma is the repository of the nation’s soul. If Dharma is destroyed, the Nation perishes. Anyone who abandons Dharma betrays the nation.” Now, Dharma here must not be confused with religion - the notion of Dharma is that of a Moral compass that sustains the nation by giving it a sense of “Right” from “wrong”. Integral Humanism is premised on the same fundamental idea.

A nation state based on Integral Humanism is a secular, non-theocratic state. Also, it repudiated Statism and stood up for decentralization to uphold the twin pillars of Individual Freedom and National Interest.

Moreover, Integral Humanism gives us a much broader & modern perspective and tries to unshackle our minds from parochial concerns & past baggage. It says, “we still have to discard the status-quo mentality and usher in a new era. Indeed our efforts at reconstruction need not be clouded by prejudice or disregard for all that is inherited from our past. On the other hand, there is no need to cling to past institutions and traditions which have outlived their utility." [Source : http://offstumped.nationalinterest.in/2 ... -hindutva/]

The treatise of Integral Humanism has been subjected to crude generalizations and vulgar oversimplifications. Any objective reappraisal of Integral Humanism must account for the day and age it was articulated and the generation that propounded it. [Hope our forum friend Shahul hameed is listening]. It’s no Gita or Quran. Its not infallible. But, it does show a healthy way of social & national life.

The essence of Integral Humanism is [as given by Deen Dayal ji]:

· An assurance of the minimum standard of living to every individual and preparedness for the defense of the Nation.

· Further increase above this minimum standard of living whereby the individual and the Nation acquire the means to contribute to world progress on the basis of its own Chiti [Conscience].

· To provide meaningful employment to every able-bodied citizen, by which the above two objectives can be realized, and to avoid waste and extravagance in utilizing natural resources.

· To develop machines suited to Bharatiya conditions [indigenous technology], taking note of the availability and nature of the various factors of production.

· The system must help, and not disregard the human being – the individual. It must protect the cultural and other values of life. This is a requirement which cannot be violated except at the risk of great peril.

· The ownership, state, private or any other form, of various industries must be decided on a pragmatic and practical basis.

Had Deen Dayal ji lived longer, he would have developed and modified it further and India would have been firmly under the control of a right wing ideology by end of twentieth century. But it was not to be so. It should now be the solemn duty of each and every right thinking Indian national to contribute his or her ideas for the development of such a full fledged socio-economic-political ideology that can take us to the top of the world once again.

Well friends, since the post is getting a bit too long, I will stop at these three vital issues.

I would request you all to take part in this forum whole-heartedly contributing to various threads. I have picked some relevant posts to initiate debates under these threads. Your inputs are valuable. The party may not be valuing it so much now, but it eventually will. Good thoughts, just like good deeds, never go waste.

We are a strong, formidable group now - some 10,000 on forum [including Hindi forum] + approximately 17,000 online volunteers. And if you add the numbers of those who have registered with us & give us regular feedback, the number goes beyond 50,000. It’s no small number considering the profile, intellect, ability & reach of this group. I am sure with our collective efforts, these numbers can just do wonders.

Party recognizes this. And I am putting in all efforts to get some official organization stamp for this army of BJP warriors. After that, we will find ways & means of consolidating our efforts and will make it one formidable force that will be able to challenge flawed perceptions, biased media or anything that may possibly harm the interest of this great Nation & the party.

Lastly, I apologize for the delay in approving your posts. Well, the campaign is over & the team has also dispersed. But I am trying to hold the fort for you guys' sake. Instead of giving me a break, you guys have become hyper-active ! But that is something I really don't mind. Your enthusiasm is my energy, your party's energy. So, keep posting. I will manage it. Just please don't mind the delay.

To sign off, let me reproduce a few lines from the inspiring poem by Sri Harivansh Rai Bachchan [very thoughfully posted by our member Udaygour] :

लहरों से डर कर नौका पार नहीं होती,
कोशिश करने वालों की कभी हार नहीं होती।

नन्हीं चींटी जब दाना लेकर चलती है,
चढ़ती दीवारों पर, सौ बार फिसलती है।
मन का विश्वास रगों में साहस भरता है,
चढ़कर गिरना, गिरकर चढ़ना न अखरता है।
आख़िर उसकी मेहनत बेकार नहीं होती,
कोशिश करने वालों की कभी हार नहीं होती।

असफलता एक चुनौती है, इसे स्वीकार करो,
क्या कमी रह गई, देखो और सुधार करो।
जब तक न सफल हो, नींद चैन को त्यागो तुम,
संघर्ष का मैदान छोड़ कर मत भागो तुम।

कुछ किये बिना ही जय जय कार नहीं होती,
कोशिश करने वालों की कभी हार नहीं होती।

And very intelligently translated by another member, navneet2frn :

A boat which dares to face the mighty waves of the sea can only cross through it...
In the same way, a person who tries is never defeated because defeat is not the destiny;
it is only a milestone in the path of success.

A small ant, when climbs a wall carrying a grain, it slips from the wall hundreds of times,
but the resolve in mind make it able to climb again and again…
It never stops because of falling again and again…
That’s why the continuous struggle pays dividend and she makes it at last…
Because, those who are ready to try, to them success is a few milestones away…

Defeat is the synonym of challenge which should be accepted…
What were the mistakes/should be found and resolved…
Till the moment we are not victorious, we should be restless,
"Awake arise and stop not,till the goal is achieved”…
Don’t ever leave the battle ground without being victorious because nobody is praised without doing nothing…
So behind every success, there are countless defeats…
So, a person can be defeated many times but his resolve can never be defeated…

Amen !

So long friends. Let's start the journey afresh !

Regards

Anupam Trivedi
Moderator

[email protected]
[email protected]

http://www.lkadvani.in/forum/viewtopic. ... t=5694&p=0

[Pranav]

Discussion point 1. BJP needs to own media

Probably, this is one of the most talked about issue/ demand in the forum. Almost every other member wants BJP to have a newspaper, a TV channel etc. Well, friends, I entirely DISAGREE.

We all know & say that media is biased. But are we not being prejudiced by assuming that ? And what if the media is biased ? Do we start to blow our own trumpet to counter it ? My answer is a firm NO. Why ?

First, a media is effective if it’s considered credible & impartial. By launching a party channel, wouldn’t we kill these two very parameters ? Besides, through our channel, are we planning to reach only our supporters [on the lines of Jaya TV or Sun TV]. Is whole of India not our audience ?

There is no explicit "Kangrez TV" channel, but still all channels serve the dynasty. They try to create an illusion of neutrality. Nobody is asking for a "BJP TV" channel. Nobody would stop a pro-Right medium from reaching out to non-BJP audiences. Journalists pretend to be neutral while obeying the diktats of the Owners. Very little of the journalism you see around is genuine. You go around foolishly expecting to be treated fairly by the media, then you'll only get kicked in the teeth - and you would fully deserve it for your folly.

All of this is very elementary. Don't know to what extent the opinions of that Mod are representative of the thinking of the BJP - I hope the BJP would be smarter than that.

[Rahul Mehta]

ATTENTION ALL

There is a Tamil that "Voice of people is voice of God". I request all Tamils to cite me that saying in Tamil and also tell me how old that saying is. Pls, I need that saying ASAP to add it my new edition of the manifesto. In return, I will praise Tamil language and culture in my manifesto. So pls cite that saying in Tamil ASAP.

Makkal Theerpu, Mahesan theerpu

And how old is this saying, approx, as per various estimates?

Ashok was never able to defeat Chola, Cher and Pandaya. And neither were Khilji and Akbar. The reason must have been intense democracy in south, as above saying says.

The above saying of Tamil should inserted into out Constitution.

[brihaspati]

Ashoka would have to be reborn to be able to try to defeat the Cholas, isnt it?

[Atri]

AFAIK, It was Bindusara who undertook the South Indian Conquest, not Ashoka... The only new conquest of Ashoka for Mauryas was Kalinga.. He added no other new territory to empire apart from kalinga.

Dunno why British chose to glorify Ashok more than his father and grand-father who were the true conquerors. They completely sidelined Guptas as well..

[harbans]

Chiron ji it's because Ashok is associated with Buddhism. Brits and Westerners are at pains to dissassociate Buddhist and Hindu culture.
Notice how credit for humanist Dharma is given to Buddhists and Hindu's depicted as violent Kali worshippers, rat or monkey worshippers. The Witzels and Doningers are creating a 'Hindu' excluvist framework..they are isolating Dharmic strands and renaming them as exclusive new religions. This is happening right under BRF noses even today..strategic leadership in the future MUST realize this. If they fail to realize this, we can choose any kind of nationalism. The Dharmic tradition must be a unifier in the country and not a divider. Buddhist, Sikh, Jains, Vaishnavites, Shaivites must unite under the Dharmic banner originally called 'Hindu's'. Time is not far when they will break mould and differentiate and make exclusive Vaishnavites as peaceful creation worshippers versus the destructive Shaivite worshippers as different..

[Atri]

true... Even the word "hindu" is so much abused that it has now being associated with word "taliban" as well to form "hindu-taliban". Dharmic traditions which are Bhaaratiya in origin should be clubbed together as one under one denomination which is acceptable to all Dharmic people. If the term "hindu" is not acceptable, then instead of wasting time in convincing Buddhists, Sikhs, Jains the true meaning of "hindu", one should go for Bhaaratiya and unite them all with emergency.

Chandragupta-Chanakya jodi never ceases to amaze me... never again was there such a partnership between Brahma-Bala and Kshaatra-bala. Even the Maha-mantri of Bindusara for initial years was Chanakya when the trajectory of Bindusara's career was defined. Bindusara was made "Amitraghaat" (destroyer of enemies) by counselling of Chanakya.

[harbans]

Absolutely Chiron. But this is what is happening. No one in India will bat an eyelid if one of a family starts practising Zen meditation or becomes a Vaishnavite in an family thats exclusively Shaivite or starts maintaining a Jain rigor. This has been so for millenia. We all have read how scholars adopted Dvait and Advait or other schools of thought after debate, it interchanged, evolved. First sons of Hindu families became Sikhs, Brahmin scholars contributed to almost every school of Buddhism known today. Who gave the different ideologies different identities (each time as opposed to a 'Hindu' one? Outsiders. The problem lies not with the differences between the schools because there was always inherent pluyrality and interchangibility in schools of thought with plenty of scope for evolution of them for the rise of other schools of thought. Differentiating identities caused removing the fluidity of exhcange within these schools and brought in a certain exsclusivity. Whats left of Hindu's suffered the maximum as they are atsome pain to explain the commonality. To skip this bullshit, we must get the Dharmic banners together. If excluvist religions don't want to be inclusive in this, leave it at that. But India's future must be a consolidation of Dharmic forces of incluvism.

[Arjun]

The intellectuals like Arun Shourie, A Roy etc were on West payroll and so ensure that Indian citizens never ever come to know about laws (recall, Jury etc) using which citizens of West tamed their policemen, babu etc.

Rahul, I am aware that you have been an active campaigner on the forum for the right to recall. Have to admit I never gave this much thought.... but now that you have achieved some degree of validation and shown ability to go the distance on this, my curiosity is piqued.

I would like to understand better the examples where this has been implemented overseas, and instances where the laws have been useful (eg in specific instances of recall made possible throught the legislation). How about a thread on this ? With your recent showing the admins might not have a problem..

[ramana]

I agree with Rahul Mehta that the Tamil saying needs to be popularized. By the way the Latin equvalent is "Vox populi, vox dei!" same meaning "Voice of people is voice of God!"

[Tilak]

X-Posted :

The next government in Delhi - National and Strategic security challenges
from M.K. Dhar by Maloy Krishna Dhar

Mrs. Hilary Clinton, the US Secretary of State in a recent statement expected India to play a vital role in the regional conflicts raging in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Her brief statement was followed up at a Senate hearing on May 13. The US Afghanistan-Pakistan special envoy Richard Holbrooke acknowledged that India has a great role to play in coping with the Al Qaeda and Taliban challenges. Replying to a Senator who wanted to know how New Delhi could help arrest the deteriorating situation in the region, Holbrooke said that till the Indian elections were over and a new government was in place nothing could be said with certainty. Though nothing tangible has been said by Obama, Hilary and Holbrooke so far, the suggestive signals emanating from Washington appear to be ominous. A discerning observer cannot miss subtle changes in US policy towards India and Pakistan. Obama is determined to pour billions in Pakistan in the name of fighting jihadi terror in Afghanistan and Pakistan and spreading in all conceivable directions. He is yet to make up a policy decision if India is acceptable to Washington as a cornerstone of peace, prosperity and democracy in this most troubles region of Asia.

International security observers understand that out of 5 Islamist terrorists 3 have connectivity to Pakistan. They were responsible for terrorist actions in the USA, Britain, Spain, France, Italy, Germany, Sweden etc countries. Some of them are linked to the Chechen and Dagestan Islamist rebels and the Uyghur rebels in West China. India’s next door neighbor is the breeding ground of jihad and Islamist terrorists, who want to islamicise the entire region and even other Muslim majority countries. They have virtually become franchisees of al Qaeda and the Taliban.

Strategic habits die hard. Pakistan has been a client state of the USA since 1948. Having used Pakistan as a partner in giving birth to Islamist terrorism in Afghanistan-Pakistan, the USA now wants to use Pakistan again to fight the same Franken-Sheikhs. The U.S. is most likely to succumb to another Pakistani blackmail strategy and ask India to ease military presence and operations in Kashmir as a pre-condition to Pakistan’s withdrawal of troops from the second line of defence for pitting against the Taliban and al Qaeda. The new government in will have to face this demand from the USA and its allies. It would depend on the intrinsic strengths of the new government in Delhi to pressure Washington not to try any funny game and to understand India’s own security concerns. Hopefully, Manmohan Singh led government would give priority to India’s own security concerns than falling prey to U. S. pressure to ease military presence in Kashmir. He had bargained well during the nuke deal; he should now bargain like a Shylock and get the pond of flesh India has been denied so far by the west. It is time India tells Pakistan to vacate the PoK and the Gilgit-Skardu areas and put pressure on China to vacate the Kashmir land gifted to it by Pakistan in flagrant violation of UN mandate conditions and to shut the pages of moth-eaten history of China and stop demanding Arunachal Pradesh and vacate Aksai Chin areas.

[brihaspati]

X-posting from the "strategic scenario" thread :

Friends, all who are posting on the two "strategic" "scenario/leadership" threads. Just a few pointers for you to ponder before you post. These threads were essentially started to discuss strategy with the future in mind. Obviously, the future is not the present, and it can develop from the present into one of many possibilities.

Since strategy in both arenas of focus is a multifaceted issue based on diverse factors that include ideology, "faith" or religious or general ideological components came up from time to time. As you have noticed recently, hopefully just coincidentally, that about the period the election results were out, any line of post that can be represented or interpreted as being favourable towards or promoting "Hindutva" can lead to entire threads being locked. To be fair the same has been done for threads that ostensibly discuss "Islamism", but many of these latter threads also had posts that tended to throw up evidence or posts that explored "negative" aspects of Islam, and could therefore be seen as supporting "Hindutva" according to certain interpretations of "Hindutva".

There is an old saying, that, "God resides in atheists even more strongly than theists, in the form of an overwhelming urge to deny God". So those who are paranoid about "Hindutva" and give it more importance than is due, will see it everywhere. They will find a surreptitious angle being brought in, very subtle and very covert, and very clever. Even if it is not there, they will need to invent it, and make it as sinister as possible. This is after all a very conscious political thinking aligned to existing political beliefs in India that looks upon "Hindutva" as a political threat, and makes it larger than life.

I would request all, that we have had the opportunity to discuss a lot of interesting and useful ideas here, and hopefully we can continue discussing them. Please do not give any excuse to those who are so paranoid about a single term, that they think, it needs simply being mentioned to make it popular, and therefore all voices that may use the term should be silenced, and entire threads locked.

There is an old story from "Buddhism". Two monks were journeying and came to a shallow river one morning. There were no boats and with some difficulty the men would be able to cross. However, a young and attractive woman was desperate to cross the river too and requested the monks to carry her across. The younger monk refused, as it was against the vows to touch a woman, especially a young and attractuve one. The elder monk picked the woman up on his shoulders and carried her across the river. The monks and the woman went their separate ways. In the evening, after they had halted for the night, the younger monk could hold himself no longer and openly accused the older monk of breaking vows. The older monk smiled and replied "oh I have dropped her off my shoulders at the river bank, are you still carrying her around?"

Let those who are scared of "Hindutva" carry it around, and let us push on with our actual, diverse and stimulating discussions.

[vsudhir]

I would request all, that we have had the opportunity to discuss a lot of interesting and useful ideas here, and hopefully we can continue discussing them. Please do not give any excuse to those who are so paranoid about a single term, that they think, it needs simply being mentioned to make it popular, and therefore all voices that may use the term should be silenced, and entire threads locked.

Thanks for stating this. Much needed IMHO. Courage and perseverance are tested when the chips are down, not the easy ride when things are going well.

There is an old story from "Buddhism". Two monks were journeying and came to a shallow river one morning. There were no boats and with some difficulty the men would be able to cross. However, a young and attractive woman was desperate to cross the river too and requested the monks to carry her across. The younger monk refused, as it was against the vows to touch a woman, especially a young and attractuve one. The elder monk picked the woman up on his shoulders and carried her across the river. The monks and the woman went their separate ways. In the evening, after they had halted for the night, the younger monk could hold himself no longer and openly accused the older monk of breaking vows. The older monk smiled and replied "oh I have dropped her off my shoulders at the river bank, are you still carrying her around?"

I remember this story. A beautiful one indeed.

Let those who are scared of "Hindutva" carry it around, and let us push on with our actual, diverse and stimulating discussions.

Amen.

Your contributions to the forum are much appreciated sir, at least in moi mind. Those railing about abstract topics detracting from the prestige of the forum are welcome to overlook the offending threads onlee.

[Rahul Mehta]

Rahul Mehta: A detailed discussion on tax laws isnt possible in this thread. If you can convince admins to create a thread on discussion of tax laws, I can show how this flaw of inheritance tax can circumvented. Or, you may pick any forum and post URL here and we can discuss it there.

Pranav: RM ji, I suppose a brief digression into tax laws ought be be permissible here. I am no tax expert, but will give whatever comments I have.

----------

Rahul Mehta: The intellectuals like Arun Shourie, A Roy etc were on West payroll and so ensure that Indian citizens never ever come to know about laws (recall, Jury etc) using which citizens of West tamed their policemen, babu etc.

Arjun: Rahul, I am aware that you have been an active campaigner on the forum for the right to recall. Have to admit I never gave this much thought.... but now that you have achieved some degree of validation and shown ability to go the distance on this, my curiosity is piqued. I would like to understand better the examples where this has been implemented overseas, and instances where the laws have been useful (eg in specific instances of recall made possible throught the legislation). How about a thread on this ? With your recent showing the admins might not have a problem.

Pranav, Arjun,

The Topic Rakshaks never mind when someone other than me violates thread boundaries. So they dont mind my breaking thread boundaries per se. But they intensely hate the proposals on wealth tax, inheritance tax, right to recall PM, CMs, judges, right to replace RBI Chiefs and even the most basic one --- allowing citizens to post affidavits on PM's website so that whole world may see. So they make Thread Hijack an issue as if this threads are worth king's ransom.

So I request you to start a thread titled as "Reforms in Administrative Procedure Code" and "Tax laws details" to discuss these topics properly. Meanwhile, I will make posts in "Good Governance" Thread. But lets not discuss these topics here.

Pls look for my posts in that thread. I will soon post my answers there.

.

[Rahul Mehta]

I agree with Rahul Mehta that the Tamil saying needs to be popularized. By the way the Latin equvalent is "Vox populi, vox dei!" same meaning "Voice of people is voice of God!"

AWMTA . IMO, the Tamil slogan "Makkal Theerpu Mehsan Theerpu" should be made tag line of BR. I am making it tagline of my new Party and will be on top of the Party manifesto. And it should be added in our Constitution as well.

==========

Rahul Mehta: IMO, BJP has excellent chance of getting 400 seats in 2014 if

1. it can reduce poverty in Gujarat, Karnataka, MP and other states it has
2. It can provide near zero corruption police in these states
3. It can provide near zero courts where cases get disposed in 2-3 months in above states
4. It abolishes VAT and imposes wealth tax using loop holes in the Constitution in these states
etc etc

RamaY : RM-ji

Same thoughts here. I proposed similar strategy in Election analysis thread. All the above points should become BJP model of governance. Not some NM/Yeduyurappa/RamanSingh model of governance. Standardise all the laws that passed in BJP ruled states and the good-governance will spill over into other states. Establish a sound practical based Indic education system across all BJP ruled states with free mid-day meals program such as Akshaya Patra. Once BJP implements these programs honestly and efficiently, all other parties must follow suit or perish. It will be same as how IT spread across various states even to WB. When good governance becomes a norm, the next USP will take us to the strategic leadership of India. Does BJP leadership has this vision?

Over 99% of leaders in BJP (and Congress, CPM etc) are 100% Pramods who dont want to think beyond bribes and "seven star life style" for 4 years and 8 months, and in next 4 months they think of votes along with bribes and "seven star lifestyle". And elitemen, mediamen, MNCs, Christianists promote ONLY this kind of leaders and force the rest to leave BJP, Congress, CPM etc. Modi may be least Pramodish of all leaders in BJP, but consider his decision of keeping contract between Gujarat Govt and Tata-Nano secret. Why should he stoop so low and keep a Guj Govt contract secret? The rumor mill says that he gave Rs 20000 cr loan to Tata-Nano to be paid in 20 annual installments with interest being mere 1% a year. This is give away. I dont put much weight on rumor mill --- but then, why keep contract secret? I made allegation of bribery on Buddhadev Bhattacharya when he kept contract secret, and do I have choice but not to make same allegation now? That aside, his performance on improving courts, police and govt schools is hopeless.

What is scary that inside all parties, a debate on legal/procedural reforms is severely discouraged. In internal meetings, if any member tries to put arguments on improving procedure codes, he will be charged with "you violating the topic" and then asked to shut up. I asked a Congress member to openly ask his MP in internal meetings "why are you not proposing right to recall laws in Parliament", and the member was stunned. His reaction was "if I ask such question even in internal meeting, I will be kicked out of all cells and committees". The members are asked to work like slaves, and may collect bribes in return, and never make even LEGAL reform demands inside the party.

The situation goes all the way. Just as member cannot demand an administrative reform, an MLA cannot demand administrative reform before Minister. And MP of BJP or Congress cannot demand administrative reforms before Sonia or LKA. "Do not ask a question to the leader that you know he does not want to answer" -- is the commanding guidelines inside all parties. So no iterations over proposals is possible.

Which is why, I request ALL BRites and non-BRites to join parties they like. It is possible that if such large number of good people join parties, they will be forced to changed. Or at least, BRites and non-BRites will lose the respect for the parties for once and for all.

[shiv]

Rahul Mehta - what is your opinion of the Loksatta party. I am thinking of becoming a member of Loksatta.

[Rahul Mehta]

Rahul Mehta - what is your opinion of the Loksatta party. I am thinking of becoming a member of Loksatta.

1. One demand I ask EVERY citizen to make to every Party is : [b[pls show the DRAFTS of the laws you would pass to reduce problems like poverty, corruption etc[/b]. If a Party or a candidate says : first campaign for us or elect us, and we will show you the drafts after we get elected, such Party is not worth the salt.

eg Consider you have 1000 sqm plot. Say you want bungalow on it. Say you go to a civil engineer or an architect. He promises grand things such good bedrooms, drawing rooms, balconies etc. Next tou ask him to give rough price estimates and design. Say his reply is "Man, dont worry about design and details. Just give me five year non revocable power of attorney and at the end of five years, you will have the house you want". I dont think you will give him non revocable power of attorney just because he is a nice guy.

Same way, we citizens and activists should ask for the DRAFTS. Even if we dont understand the draft, we should ask for it to ensure that he has drafts (plan). If he did not make draft till now, chances that he will make drafts after he is elected are next to zero.

So LS, along with ALL parties of India, except my RRP, fails this test. No Party, including LS is willing to give the drafts of the laws needed to fix courts, police etc

2. LS has no proposals in increasing Military funds and take down Pakistan. And many members I chatted with on their Orkut community are anti-Military peace mongers. This shows that JP is doing NOTHING to give them information on strategic issues.

-----

But still there is one plus point in your joining LS -- you can convert their members into pro-Military and ask them to work on the detailed DRAFTS. If that happens, that can really be a step in improving India.

Otherwise, best party to join is my Right to Recall (and MRCM) Party, for without RR laws, there is no end to corruption and MRCM is fastest way to reduce poverty and stop thus poor Hindus from fleeing Hinduism. You are very much welcome to join my Party . Or else, I would request you to infiltrate and convert LS or any Party into an RRP Party.

[shiv]

OK Rahul - let me look at your party seriously - do you have a website or is BRF it's site? Are you looking at an all India party?

[harbans]

there is no end to corruption and MRCM is fastest way to reduce poverty

My apologies, but corruption is not the core issue to poverty reduction. Economic agenda is. No corruption exists/ existed in North Korea, Iran etc. Yet there is poverty. Military and theological dictatorships have produced regimes that showed 0 tolerance to corruption, yet poverty existed.

The only way to remove poverty is market oriented reforms and reduction of centralized control on the economy thus giving a 10% growth rate to India in the longish term. You seem a bit fascinated with a magical reform of judiciary by making it a jury system and removing corruption, lowering population growth etc. These (corruption, legal lethargy, high population growth) are symptoms of a malaise. Removing symptoms by whatever technique you propose will not result in poverty reduction. They will continue enhancing it.

All this IMHO..and JMT/

[brihaspati]

Iran or North Korea, theocratic or military dictatorships are not open societies. Most societies claimed to be completely open, are all partially open, in the sense of "indirect control" of flow of information, and the media (Chomsky's "manufacture of consent"). But still massive corruption leaks a bit through, even through such indirect control. Such leaks are a safety valve for the core regime at top power to survive by sacrificing a few individuals from time to time.

Whereever there is a mismatch between expectations, desires, and what is deemed to be a necessity on the one hand, and supply of satisfaction on the other, there will be "corruption". If you hold something that is desired by others, from favour, to body, to power, to objects of physical consumption, there will be pressure and competition to obtain it in exchange for other elements of desire.

Corruption increases as the scale of transactions increase. Contrary to prevalent wisdom, no market is a completely free market. And market competition does not on its own reduce corruption. Japan is an example how efficient markets and economies can support huge corruptions. In fact competitio is a key indirect factor in corruption, for people in search of that extra edge to defeat others can look at "corrupt" practices. We have the Bofors and the recent admission of bribe giving by Siemens in BD telecom scam to show that so called advanced economies with apparent "competition" can still spawn "corruption".

India survives and grows, in spite of corruption, simply because too many have too little to give in "bribes". Travel up and down the country by train, and you will quickly see the merry dance of corruption being danced by those who have power and wealth, not the "poor". Trains are a good example because there are "transactions" at every stage.

The key would be to make capital available directly to those who have little or no chance of ever gaining use of capital. But the problem will be that given the political and bureaucratic nexus in the culture of "largesse" the political control over distribution of such capital will never go away, and will simply fuel further corruption with the capital getting concentrated in the hands of those who already have it.

[ChandraS]

AWMTA . IMO, the Tamil slogan "Makkal Theerpu Mehsan Theerpu" should be made tag line of BR. I am making it tagline of my new Party and will be on top of the Party manifesto. And it should be added in our Constitution as well.

[OT post]

Rahul Mehta saar,

The correct spelling is "Mahesan" for the bolded part. Jst want to make sure you get it right. No point in putting the wrong spelling and changing the meaning.

end [OT post]

[dinakar]

There is a Tamil that "Voice of people is voice of God". I request all Tamils to cite me that saying in Tamil and also tell me how old that saying is. Pls, I need that saying ASAP to add it my new edition of the manifesto. In return, I will praise Tamil language and culture in my manifesto. So pls cite that saying in Tamil ASAP.

RMji,

மக்கள் தீர்ப்பே மகேசன் தீர்ப்பு 'Makkal Theerpe Mahesan Theerpu'

AFAIK the perfect date of this saying is not known. But this saying was popularised by DMK and it is used as a popular proverb by common people.
PS: The same saying was used by Jayalalitha to come back to power after the supreme court verdict against her.
LINK
People's verdict - a mantra becoming a monster?

[suryag]

RMji,

I am a supporter of your right to recall strategy. However, you should also understand that LSP guys are more embedded in regional politics and do not necessarily think of strengthening the military. Their main antidote to all the problems that we face is curb corruption and everything else will take care of itself.

It might be too simplistic a solution but definitely it would work. Please think about these questions
1.Havent we had X number of committees on police reforms
2. Havent we had X number of committees on judicial reforms and decreasing backlog in courts
3. Havent we had X number of committees on delivery oriented administrative reforms

Answers to 1, 2 and 3 are yes but none of the recommendations have ever been implemented and why was that so, it was because of the corrupt politicians. So LSP's agenda is as follows

Combating corrpution
http://www.loksatta.org/cms/index.php?o ... &Itemid=92

Reforming governance
http://www.loksatta.org/cms/index.php?o ... &Itemid=95


If we have negligible corruption our intellectuals will fix the governance and delivery systems in very less time. I for one firmly believe that all these conversions would also go away if government delivery works, heck if all the schemes of a government start delivering to the common man these missionaries have no chance as the schemes initiated by the government make it a super missionary. In other words, government will be like services of a super model with no tags

I would be very happy to see Shiv garu in LSP, Maradona playing for Brazil team - words are not enough to describe it.

Btw, I am not an ideologue of LSP. I have been to their party office, when they just entered politics and was really happy to see a couple of research scholars working on public administration in India. It really warmed my heart to see that. Apparently, there are other scholars working on different areas too. I will definitely try to rake up right to recall in LSP circles.

[SRoy]

Corruption increases as the scale of transactions increase. Contrary to prevalent wisdom, no market is a completely free market. And market competition does not on its own reduce corruption. Japan is an example how efficient markets and economies can support huge corruptions. In fact competitio is a key indirect factor in corruption, for people in search of that extra edge to defeat others can look at "corrupt" practices. We have the Bofors and the recent admission of bribe giving by Siemens in BD telecom scam to show that so called advanced economies with apparent "competition" can still spawn "corruption".

Bofors is an old story. Where did you get that BD story?

In fact a cartel of about 9 - 12 European telecom engineering majors which include Alcatel, Ericsson, Siemens, etc. have been running a scam for last 20 years. This include selective bidding, bribing etc. All of these companies have been running a slush fund reserve (~20 Billion Euros estimated) for these operations. These monies never appeared in transactions and were paid out in form of miscellaneous expenditure to the sales guys.

Some form of payouts included passes to major sports tournaments, cultural events etc., these were very hard to detect. The lid was blown in Europe in 2006.

Curiously the fund managers never made a cent out of those funds.

If you look at it the other way the respective home governments of these MNC can (must have been ... but none of the officials under trial have admitted yet) very easily use them for strategic purposes (Huwaei comes to my mind).

Do we have any Indian MNC's that could carry out such business for GoI? The manner in which our petro PSU's have been operating overseas does not inspire confidence.

[brihaspati]

I got it off the English language broadcast of ATN Bangla, yesterday.

[Rahul Mehta]

Rahul Mehta: The intellectuals like Arun Shourie, A Roy etc were on West payroll and so ensure that Indian citizens never ever come to know about laws (recall, Jury etc) using which citizens of West tamed their policemen, babu etc.

Arjun: Rahul, I am aware that you have been an active campaigner on the forum for the right to recall. Have to admit I never gave this much thought.... but now that you have achieved some degree of validation and shown ability to go the distance on this, my curiosity is piqued. I would like to understand better the examples where this has been implemented overseas, and instances where the laws have been useful (eg in specific instances of recall made possible throught the legislation). How about a thread on this ? With your recent showing the admins might not have a problem.

Arjun,

I have posted a post in Good Governance Thread, where-in I have given procedures by which we citizens can

1. Enact procedures (such as follows)
2. Procedure by which we can replace PM
3. Procedure by which we can replace SC-Cj

------------------------

OK Rahul - let me look at your party seriously - do you have a website or is BRF it's site? Are you looking at an all India party?

My site is www.rahulmehta.com

Here are two summary pamphlets : http://rahulmehta.com/rahul.english.small.pdf , http://rahulmehta.com/rahul.english.large.pdf

And here is full manifesto : http://rahulmehta.com/mrcm_party_manifesto.pdf

This is the orkut community I use : http://www.orkut.co.in/Main#Community.aspx?cmm=21780619

---

The party is 100% Nationalistic and National. There is not even one Gujarat specific demand or even Gujarat specific whine in pamphlets or manifesto. There is no attempt to project Gujarat as victim in any of my pamphlets including Gujarati/Hindi pamphlets. (Otherwise, independent candidates tend to make everything local). Even in coming Ahmedabad Municipal elections, I am putting demands like "Ahmedabad Municipal Corporation will not take any grants or loans from Gujarat Govt and Central Govt and will opt for fully self financed model". Because thats what I want at India level --- except for some border districts and districts with very rough terrains, all townships should be financially self-funded.

I am writing Constitution of Party. Once that is done, I will apply for registration.

The main difference between RRP and every other Party (including LS) is that every demand is expressed in form DRAFTS of the legal/administrative solution to that demand. All the drafts are unambiguous and clearly spell out which individuals will what discretionary powers in the chain. Other parties only spell goals which arouse intense sense of liking in followers, but gives them no description of future they plan, if at all they have a plan. All the laws' drafts are given on rahulmehta.com . In case you have any questions, pls feel free to send me email at [email protected] or call me 98251-27780 .

.

[harbans]

Mehta ji, just a query: Will you promote internal democracy within your party to elect a leader or will you remain head? Do you intend making a provision for that in the Party constitution?

[Rahul Mehta]

Harbans, SuryaG, Shiv,

Pls see good Governance thread.

Mehta ji, just a query: Will you promote internal democracy within your party to elect a leader or will you remain head? Do you intend making a provision for that in the Party constitution?

Sadly, there is no thread on BR to discuss this. So I will be brief and take no more question, unless you create a separate thread on this. In RRP, each members has points - the points are earned by
1. spending money for newspaper ads
2. spending money for purchasing pamphlets
3. spending money to buy hoarding
4. attending rallies
5. Votes earned in elections he contested
etc etc

So rich members like myself can earn points by 1-3, and poor can earn points by 4. EVERY position is elected and replaceable, where voting is in person or on internet or on internet-via-Proxy (if a person doesnt know how to use net, he may appoint proxy or vote by appearing in person). And MLA, MP tickets will be given by members' votes. But each members' vote does not have same weight, the weight it is equal to Points he has. The only place where member has same weight (one vote) is issuing whip over MLA or MP. In issuing whip, any citizen-voter, even a non-member, can register YES-NO for Rs 3 fee. And if over 25% voters register YES-NO, that "whip" will be binding on the MP, MLA. IOW, mine is the first Party that promises that MP, MLA will vote in Parliament, Assembly as per the will of the citizens.

We take "Makkal theerpu Mahesan theerpu" as God's word, literally.

.

[harbans]

So I will be brief and take no more question, unless you create a separate thread on this. In RRP, each members has points

I don't think there is a requirement to create a new thread for this. The title is 'Strategic leadership for the future of India'. I think that internal democratization of party leaderships according to the constitutions they lay out is important towards greater democratization and effective governance. Example i start a party that's constitution includes elimination of reservation, i must initiate a democratic setup within to elect a leader at the party helm best suited to accomplish that task. People from the party who feel for that cause, elect a leader who can push the case for that issue nationally. I turly wish parties first democratized their internal functioning first for better rationalization of goals and effectiveness in implementation of same when in power.