Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Kritavarman · Post by **Kritavarman** » 02 Jun 2009 12:07

Lay back, Sit down do whatever you feel

and and

wait for next attack and them let all of us condemn the attack.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 02 Jun 2009 12:21

AbhishekD wrote:Time to close this thread. Hafeez Saeed has been released and track II diplomacy has started.

No, it is not. We need to see Indian Government's reaction, and possibly analyze and justify it. There is already talk of second-strike capability by Pakistan to which Indian defence MoS has said that India too has that capability ! We will now need to build third strike capability and wait for ATV and Akula to join our Navy. We will then need to be trained on these assets and then test our missiles from them. We would also need the military's satellite to be up next year and then network everything. Brahmos would need to be mated to Su-30 MKI and all the three AWACS would need to be inducted etc. PAD and AAD would need to be tested a few more times and then inducted. In the meanwhile, there will have to be a huge drama regarding hanging Kasab as some political parties might genuinely feel that that could upset the minorities. We have a long way to go and this thread needs to be alive till the logical conclusion.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 02 Jun 2009 12:23

SSridhar wrote:
AbhishekD wrote:Time to close this thread. Hafeez Saeed has been released and track II diplomacy has started.
No, it is not. We need to see Indian Government's reaction, and possibly analyze and justify it.

more than six months have passed since then. If there was a reaction, I apologize for missing it.

Edit: How many of us really think mumbai is still in the thinking of Indian diplomatic circles? My opinion, it is not. So why wait for the mythical reaction?

Edit2: So this is my 400th post.

Vishal_Bhatia · Post by **Vishal_Bhatia** » 02 Jun 2009 12:40

Am I the only one who sees that the Pakistanis did Mumbai so as to compell us to attack, in whatever limited fashion that we may have?

I mean, leave a trail of evidence, make sure that the attacks get maximum publicity, and do all of these a few months prior to national elections?

Is the writing not on the wall? They did Mumbai so as to force/compel us to attack them?

When looked at that way, as I do, I believe the GoI's decision to not retaliate was perefectly apt.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 02 Jun 2009 12:42

SSridhar-No, it is not. We need to see Indian Government's reaction, and possibly analyze and justify it. There is already talk of second-strike capability by Pakistan to which Indian defence MoS has said that India too has that capability ! We will now need to build third strike capability and wait for ATV and Akula to join our Navy. We will then need to be trained on these assets and then test our missiles from them. We would also need the military's satellite to be up next year and then network everything. Brahmos would need to be mated to Su-30 MKI and all the three AWACS would need to be inducted etc. PAD and AAD would need to be tested a few more times and then inducted. In the meanwhile, there will have to be a huge drama regarding hanging Kasab as some political parties might genuinely feel that that could upset the minorities. We have a long way to go and this thread needs to be alive till the logical conclusion.

ya ya we will achieve it ya ya ...BTW what did you say Sridhar sir

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 02 Jun 2009 12:43

Vishal_Bhatia wrote:Am I the only one who sees that the Pakistanis did Mumbai so as to compell us to attack, in whatever limited fashion that we may have?

I mean, leave a trail of evidence, make sure that the attacks get maximum publicity, and do all of these a few months prior to national elections?

Is the writing not on the wall? They did Mumbai so as to force/compel us to attack them?

When looked at that way, as I do, I believe the GoI's decision to not retaliate was perefectly apt.

One of the best arguments for doing nothing.

Vishal_Bhatia · Post by **Vishal_Bhatia** » 02 Jun 2009 12:45

ravi_ku wrote:One of the best arguments for doing nothing.

Didn't get you. Can you elaborate please?

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 02 Jun 2009 12:49

Vishal_Bhatia wrote:
ravi_ku wrote:One of the best arguments for doing nothing.
Didn't get you. Can you elaborate please?

Is it so hard to understand? The line of the thread at that point was, what was the reaction of India to mumbai?

Read your reply and say what exactly did the govt do. Dont tell me what the govt didnt do. You gave a very good argument for not doing "something", so basically a rationalization for doing nothing.- which is what I said.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 02 Jun 2009 12:51

SSridhar wrote:No, it is not. We need to see Indian Government's reaction, and possibly analyze and justify it. There is already talk of second-strike capability by Pakistan to which Indian defence MoS has said that India too has that capability ! We will now need to build third strike capability and wait for ATV and Akula to join our Navy. We will then need to be trained on these assets and then test our missiles from them. We would also need the military's satellite to be up next year and then network everything. Brahmos would need to be mated to Su-30 MKI and all the three AWACS would need to be inducted etc. PAD and AAD would need to be tested a few more times and then inducted. In the meanwhile, there will have to be a huge drama regarding hanging Kasab as some political parties might genuinely feel that that could upset the minorities. We have a long way to go and this thread needs to be alive till the logical conclusion.

basically you want this to be another form of nukkad, discussing all the politcs of India-pakistan, our naval buildup, their buildup, their armed forces buildup, our buildup, their jf17 dance, our rambhas dance- so on. Good luck and you want to each of these with only mumbai in your view.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 02 Jun 2009 12:58

Vishal_Bhatia wrote:When looked at that way, as I do, I believe the GoI's decision to not retaliate was perefectly apt.

All well and good, but then if this decision was taken willingly, there'd be more conviction to just say so. There are benefits to articulating the policy of zero-retaliation without wasting time talking to the UN or US. After all even the small possibility of retaliation that exists today leads to the threat of a "nuclear flashpoint" and geopolitical instability that is bad for the economy.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 02 Jun 2009 13:20

Maha Govt to pay Rs 2,500 per day to Kasab's lawyer

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 02 Jun 2009 13:39

We now have an official reaction from P Chidambaram

"We are unhappy," said Home Minister P Chidambaram, reacting to Jamaat-ud-Dawa chief Hafiz Mohd Saeed's release by a court in Pakistan.

Pakistan does not show the degree of seriousness in commitment to bring to justice the perpetrators of Mumbai attacks, said the home minister {What else was PC expecting ? Right after Hafeez Saeed was arrested, most political parties asked the GoP to release him as JuD was not a terror organization. The mindset of the Judges hearing the case were clear when they linked the UNSC ban on JuD and the UN Resolution on Kashmir. By linking these two, they have justified terror, the official State policy of Pakistan anyway. Pakistan has never been unduly perturbed by the 'terrorist' tag so much so that the ISI is deliberately leaving trails implicating it in terror attacks on India. Let's see How GoI will react now. They have to invent some extraordinary spin}

abhiti · Post by **abhiti** » 02 Jun 2009 13:41

SSridhar wrote:"We are unhappy," said Home Minister P Chidambaram, reacting to Jamaat-ud-Dawa chief Hafiz Mohd Saeed's release by a court in Pakistan.

I thought Congress claimed success with Pakistan through joint terror mechanism? Maybe not, they change their statements everyday.

arun · Post by **arun** » 02 Jun 2009 13:53

AbhishekD wrote:Time to close this thread. Hafeez Saeed has been released and track II diplomacy has started.

Maybe not quite

.

There could be things to discuss like the Pakistani contention that the release of Hafeez Saeed was all because of India

:

Pak blames India for Hafiz Saeed's release

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 02 Jun 2009 14:13

Vishal - there is no doubt that the mumbai attack was deliberately initiated to provoke a parakram type response from India. With Indian troops massing at the eastern border, the pakistani army would be compelled to pull out of afghanistan and the western border, creating a serious problem for US forces in Afghanistan. A parakram style response would have played into their strategic intent, however - that does not mean that there should not have been any response. It now seems that the paks understood there would be no land invasion but feared an aerial bombardment - hence concentrating PAF resources in the east. they probably gambled on getting 3-4 shoot downs to gain some good PR, exactly as they did in Kargil. Any damage on the ground of tents and goatsheds masquerading as LET camps could be covered up quickly.

the response, or atleast what has come to pass, if you like has been to force the PA to take on the terrorists in its own backyard - something it was desperate to avoid. one can only imagine the huge schisms this is causing within the Pak army and polity. This schism may ultimately (and quickly) lead to the demise of pakistan as we know it.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 02 Jun 2009 14:18

chetak wrote:Maha Govt to pay Rs 2,500 per day to Kasab's lawyer

Thats a good salary going by that even Cabinet Secretary's salary is only Rs 80 000 a month, so if the vakeel has to attend court for 15 days a month this will fetch good Rs 40 000 for him.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 02 Jun 2009 14:26

How much does the prosecution vakil get ?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 02 Jun 2009 15:52

Hafeez Saeed, on his release

The judicial verdict is the victory of justice and law, Hafiz said adding the government tried to link his group to Al-Qaeda.

Ajmal Kasav has neither been in touch with him nor with his organization, he added.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Jun 2009 00:03

Bodies of Kuber crew killed by terrorists found

Old story but important to remember...

Bodies of Kuber crew killed by terrorists found

PTI
Saturday, November 29th, 2008 AT 9:11 PM
Tags: Mumbai Terror, Mumbai terror probe, Kuber, M V Alpha
Close...

AHMEDABAD: The bodies of five fishermen suspected to be crew members of fishing trawler 'Kuber' that was hijacked by militants involved in Mumbai attacks have been found, officials sources said here.

The militants killed four members of the crew and threw their bodies into the water soon after taking control of the vehicle but kept the captain alive so that he could help them in navigation until reaching Mumbai's shores where they slit his throat, the sources said. "The officials have recovered four bodies of fishermen suspected to be crew of 'Kuber' from high seas, while the body of its captain was found hand from the boat seized by Mumbai Coast Guard," they added.

The captain's hands were tied behind his back. "Terrorists departed from some locations in Pakistan by vessel 'M V Alpha'. We don't know the exact locations from where they started their journey from that country but the route of the trawler started from Pakistan," Customs officials involved in the investigations said.

To avoid the possibility of being caught by Indian marine security agencies, the terrorist hijacked the fishing trawler 'Kuber' probably near Jakhau, and instructed the Captain to cruise towards Mumbai, they added.

The four onboard crew members of 'Kuber' were killed on way and thrown into water, the custom officials said. The fishing trawler owned by one Hiralal Masani and his brother Vinod Masani, had sailed from Porbander for fishing expidition on November 14, though the departure time of 'Kuber' in custom records was registred as November 13, the officials said.

The Indian boats and vessels that sail from the dock are registered with the customs and the identity of the crew and captain is also recorded. "They hijacked this ship as they thought that they can easily go through any kind of checking from Indian marine agencies," he added.

"They might have taken the captain of Kuber with them to possibly take them to Mumbai," customs officials said. "Later, when they reached Mumbai his throat was slit. Mumbai Coast Guard has recovered the body of the captain from the boat, which is in their possession," officials further said.

They also said that Vessel M V Alpha, is in possession of the Coast Guard. Earlier, there was a confusion regarding bulk carrier M V Alpha which has come to Alang shipbreaking yard in Bhavnagar district for dismantling.

However, the official clarified that the bulk carrier is of Maltan origin, which is different from vessel M V Alpha. National Forum for Fishermen President Manish Lodhari said the last contact the owners could establish with Kuber was on November 22. After that they could not establish contact with the boat, he added.

Fishing boats like Kuber, usually out on expedition for 10 to 15 days, with a budget of 1.5 lakhs, have ample food stock, ice, diesel, officials said. "Fishermen sighted at least two dead bodies floating in the deep sea in Jakhau area," Porbandar Boat Association President told PTI. "We have subsequently passed the information to the authorities including Coast Guard," it said. The Coast Guard officials had confirmed yesterday that the boat found by Mumbai Coast Guard was from Porbandar. They had also revealed to Jungi and other members of Porbandar fishing community that the body of captain of the ship was found from boat, they added.

So the MV Kuber was out of Porbandar on Nov 14th and went to Jhakau. It most likely got hijacked on Nov 22 and the attack was on Nov 26th, four days later. If those boats are outfitted for 10 ~15 days sea voyage, then by time line MV Kuber must be quite empty in its disel tank. Any news on its fuel situation when found? How far is Jhakau from Mumbai?

Vishal_Bhatia · Post by **Vishal_Bhatia** » 03 Jun 2009 07:57

ravi_ku:
My point is that the GoI not acting is an act in itself. What other options we had? Cosmetic air strikes? Small raids? This is what the Pakistanis wanted us to do so that they can shovel their jihad stooges up against us. We did not play ball, and this led to the situation that we are in today. Pakistanis fighting their own stooges, or as I believe, making a show of it.

Plus, I would like to ask you... had you been in-charge, what would be your reaction to Mumbai?

vera_k:
The whole drama by the GoI is to simply appease the populace. Look at the reactions of the people in this forum itself... can you imagine the anger on the streets had the GoI not said anything?

Lalmohan:
I agree with you 100%.

To everybody:
We are criticizing the GoI for its inaction. Why can't we pool our heads together and suggest something that is actually doable? In my view, this is a good time (opportunity?) to improve our police forces.

PS: If this is whining or something of that sort, please let me know.

arun · Post by **arun** » 03 Jun 2009 08:49

X Posted.

Excerpt of what Pakistan’s High Commissioner to the UK, Wajid Shamsul Hasan, had to say to CNN-IBN on the release of Hafiz Saeed.

M.K.Bhadra Kumar was also a part of the programme:

Pak in denial when it comes to fighting terror

Published on Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 01:13 ………..:

CNN IBN: Mr Hasan for an organisation that's banned by the United Nations and its chief is accused of being one of the main perpetrators of 26/11 as well as of other crimes, for that man to go free today, how does the government of Pakistan explain this? How can India and the world really believe the commitment Pakistan has given to bringing 26/11 perpetrators to justice after this?

Wajid Shamsul Hasan:The government of Pakistan has nothing to do with him. They arrested him and kept him for almost six months under detention and under the terrorism law of Pakistan you can only keep a person under detention of 90 days unless you have produced any evidence against them. Unfortunately no such evidence was produced against Hafez Saeed so he was released by the court.

CNN IBN:You are hoping that the matter will go to the Supreme Court but Mr Hasan, will that happen? Because as you see, there is a pattern. There is pressure put on Pakistan, you put people under house arrest - whether it's Masood Azhar, whether it's Hafiz Saeed - charge them and then allow them to quietly go free once the pressure, the heat is turned off Pakistan. That's the pattern seen in case after case.

Wajid Shamsul Hasan: We have already proved our case by saying that we did arrest him, we did charge him, we did put him behind bars for almost six months and you know for six months no evidence could be produced and again I repeat that we were expecting that India will provide us with enough evidence against him. To say that somebody is involved in something and he is not, then it is very difficult for the court. The court will go on the merit of the case.

From Here: CNN-IBN

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Jun 2009 10:05

What else do we expect from Pakistan ? Pakistan has us by the b@lls. Gilani, asking India to start the 'peace dialogue' on the same day Hafeez Saeed is released is not coincidental. He is sending us a clear message. We want to always wait for a few more years for us to be economically and militarily stronger before taking any action against Pakistan. That day will never come. We should now brace for more lethal attacks with Gilani, Zardari and indeed the whole world laughing at our helplessness.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Jun 2009 10:07

SSridhar wrote:What else do we expect from Pakistan ? Pakistan has us by the b@lls. Gilani, asking India to start the 'peace dialogue' on the same day Hafeez Saeed is released is not coincidental. He is sending us a clear message. We want to always wait for a few more years for us to be economically and militarily stronger before taking any action against Pakistan. That day will never come.

Nigtwatch says:

Comment: Indian relations with Pakistan went into a deep freeze today. Advocates of restraint to allow legal processes time to work have suffered a serious loss of credibility. Advocates of swift punishing retaliation against Pakistan who were blocked last year have grown in stature.

This is the second time this decade that Pakistan-based terrorists, whom Indian analysts argue were trained with the help of Pakistani intelligence, have committed a major attack in India with impunity. The other attack was against the Indian Parliament in December 2001.

The Indians consider the Mumbai attacks their equivalent of the US 9/11 attack. Indian nationalism will require military retaliation in the event of a third atrocity. Another attack is a virtual certainty, only a matter of timing and opportunity, because Pakistan has taken no serious action to destroy the Lashkar e Tayyiba (LeT) and JD terrorists who were involved in the attacks.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 03 Jun 2009 10:43

arun wrote:Excerpt of what Pakistan’s High Commissioner to the UK, Wajid Shamsul Hasan, had to say to CNN-IBN on the release of Hafiz Saeed.

Isnt this Wajid Shamsul Hasan the same tactically brilliant Paki who suggested that Mumbai attacks were neither planned in Pakistan nor Britain but probably in some ship anchored in international waters ?

arun · Post by **arun** » 03 Jun 2009 11:23

The one and the same:

26/11 could have been planned on a ship: Pakistani envoy

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Jun 2009 12:56

Lahore High Court's Order

In its short order, the LHC bench observed the government did not have proof to detain the petitioners for “preventive measures”. “As far as the UN resolution is concerned, there is no matter before us about the vires and the government can act upon the same in letter and spirit if so advised. But relying on the same, the detention cannot be maintained, as it was even not desired thereby,” it read.

The above means that,

The LHC is saying that the GoP did not present valid evidence. The Attorney General who argued the case said in open court that since the Government had sensitive evidence that could be presented only in camera, he asked to meet the judges in their chamber. He then proceeded to do so. So, obviously some evidence was produced. The Judges might have felt that the evidence was not satisfactory or the GoP might have deliberately withheld or diluted the evidence or presented it in such a way that it was unacceptable to the judges.
The LHC judges feel that the UNSC's Al Qaeda/Taliban Sanctions Committee's declaration of JuD as a global terrorist organization and its chief Hafeez Saeed as a terrorist are 'ultra vires' and Pakistan is not bound by it.
The LHC Full Bench also feels that UNSC ban did not amount to asking Pakistan to arrest and detain Hafeez Saeed.

AjayKK · Post by **AjayKK** » 03 Jun 2009 14:09

SSridhar wrote:How much does the prosecution vakil get ?

Ujwal Nikam, the state special public prosecutor was paid around Rs 15 Lacs for taking the 1993 case (15 Lacs fr 14 years ) . Compared to that , Kasab's vakil is making a good 5-6 lacs per year.

Nigtwatch:

This is the second time this decade that Pakistan-based terrorists, whom Indian analysts argue were trained with the help of Pakistani intelligence, have committed a major attack in India with impunity. The other attack was against the Indian Parliament in December 2001.

Dont know why Nightwatch makes it appear as only "the second time" that " a major attack" has occurred in this decade. Hopefully the policy makers do not consider this only to be second. In the last few years more than 22 "major" attacks have occurred.

Nigtwatch:

The Indians consider the Mumbai attacks their equivalent of the US 9/11 attack. Indian nationalism will require military retaliation in the event of a third atrocity.

Does there exist a political will to take on the actions and face whatever be the consequences?

They attacked us in Delhi with the 29 October 2005 Delhi bombings killing 62 in a "major attack".
We "reminded them of their promise to fight terrorism."
At the same time we were discussing opening the border to help relief efforts for victims of earthquake

They attacked us with 2006 Varanasi bombings in march killing 28 in a "major" attack.
We "condemned the blasts and appealed for calm."
Just days later, we made an outpouring of love by asking for a "treaty of peace and friendship with Pakistan. "

They attacked us with the 2006 Doda massacre and killed 22, a "major" attack.
We "condemned" the attack.
We said that this was to destabilise our CBMs, peace initiative with hurrirats and resumed our crass " love over conflicts " talks on May 2, three days after the attack. On 25 May, in Srinagar over tea with hurrirats and others we said " militants are misguided, we will welcome them if they give up arms. "

Then they attacked us with 11 July 2006 Mumbai train bombings killing 209, a "major" attack ( 3rd anniv. coming soon with case in doldrums)
We handed themRs. 100 crores as gift for earthquake relief on the same day. Didnt we know that it would be used to strengthen the terror network?
We again "suspended" peace talks.
Later, we said that "ending the three-year long peace process would signal a victory for the separatist terrorists" and in Cuba, "we had a joint statement announcing that the we and pakis would resume formal peace negotiations and set up a joint agency to tackle terrorism."

Then they followed up with 25 August 2007 Hyderabad bombings killing 42 in a "major" attack.
We "condemned the Hyderabad blasts and expressed shock over the loss of innocent lives"
A month had passed, we resumed our CBMs for the sake of piss process.

Then we had the 2007 Uttar Pradesh bombings on November 23 which killed 20 people. We "condemned serial blasts" and moved on.

2008 was an open season with 13 May, 2008 Jaipur bombings in which 63 were Killed.
We carried a "high level" meeting to carry the dialogue further.

Then,26 July, 2008 Ahmedabadbombings killed 50 and we moved on. Finally we had Mumbai Terrorist Attacks. Even after an attack of this scale, we say " Next time you do this, you will pay for it". Is this a joke?

Each and every time, the pakis raise the bar , we lower our red line, condemn the attack, wait for some time, restart CBMs and piss process. Due to this, we are the laughing stock of the world. Some times we say that the time is not appropriate for any action. Everytime, we also pass no action as Chankian inaction.

Do we have the political will to take any actions?

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 03 Jun 2009 14:20

Now, that it is clear with the freeing of Sayeed, that India is not able to do anything to put pressure on pukes, so why dont we concentrate on other aspects like cleaning up those internal moles(within India) of pukes, creating awareness among all sections of society and a national will against Pakistan, putting an end to use of BD as a launching pad of terrorists......etc.

IMVHO, by concentrating a lot on pakis, we are not able to achieve anything so far in this WOT. If we cant uproot the terror tree, atleast let us try to prune it down.......

PS: This my first post, namaskar to all gurulog........

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 03 Jun 2009 14:40

^^^
Wont happen as long as sekoolaarism rules the roost. To set our house in order, we will have to revisit 1947 & make fundamental changes to our society. That requires a lot of political will and a deep sense of nationalism.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 03 Jun 2009 14:47

derkonig wrote:^^^
Wont happen as long as sekoolaarism rules the roost. To set our house in order, we will have to revisit 1947 & make fundamental changes to our society. That requires a lot of political will and a deep sense of nationalism.

I agree with you, but we have gotta realise that sekoolaarism has grown too strong and its roots too deep. We cant succeed now, and infact might come across as deluded or worse 'hindutavadi'(

) if we preach such things.

So, meanwhile we need to stress on those aspects that all Indians(including the DDM) broadly agree to. Stopping terror factory is one thing most Indians(even DDM in recent times) agree to. So, we need to start with it, once the process starts it will go to its logical conclusion anyway......

AjayKK · Post by **AjayKK** » 03 Jun 2009 14:58

An observation (?) by Nightwatch:

Another attack is a virtual certainty, only a matter of timing and opportunity, because Pakistan has taken no serious action to destroy the Lashkar e Tayyiba (LeT) and JD terrorists who were involved in the attacks.

Considering that Pakis have attacked Parliament, temples, bazaars, buses, trains, festive occasions, un armed citizens, the next wave will only be on a larger scale.

As an example of Mumbai, how difficult ( or easy ) is it to target the Chhatrapati Shivaji Int Airport? Consider that the attackers have access to the vote bank slums in below area ( near pipeline road or at Air India road ), such an attack can occur. Moreover, those slums will not be removed even if expensive safety equipments have disappeared from there.

http://wikimapia.org/#lat=19.0881973&lo ... =0&m=h&v=2

An older post by Raja Ram after July 11, 2006 bombings:

(@ Raja Ram ji: I am taking this post from here. If unappropriate, please let me know and i will remove it.)

But beyond all this, there will be a need for GOI to get international pressure on the perpetrators and that does not mean the usual parading of painstakingly gathered evidence to foreign diplomats in camera. The GOI has to present the evidence gathered publicly, set forth a clear demand for actions from governments or agencies of governments that may be involved with a clear time frame.

This should be backed up with a clear promise of retributive action against the perpetrators with or without their support. International support for such should be channelised and developed.
This calls for political will. So far no administration in India has had the gumption to go through this. Hence hope for retribution is not high at this point in time
Unless the entire spectrum of Indian public opinion comes around to clearly calling the spade a bloody shovel and stop pussy footing around, there is very little the GOI can do in terms of retribution.

But this can happen only when the political class has the clarity of mind about dealing with terror in that manner. There are consequences to such actions that we must be ready to face. The political class, mind you is a creature of the people. The people should not only be ready to back them but demand such action from the political class and only then will they respond.

Till that happens, concerned Indians can pull their hair and whack their heads - not much is going to come out of it. India will just have to take it in her stride yet again and fight on alone. There is no support for India in her war on terror. What is available is only meaningless platitudes. Sad but that is the bitter truth.

In November last year, after the Diwali blasts, Swapan Dasgupta wrote in The Pioneer (�What cross-border terrorism? Let's celebrate survival�): The “soft state” is not merely a helpless Prime Minister, an inept Home Minister and a compromised External Affairs Minister. It is a mindset of squeamish appeasement guaranteed to ensure the victims of last Saturday’s massacre won’t be the last.

I read this and asked myself where is our Lakshman Rekha ? Where is our Red line? As Rudradev mentioned in his comment on Bharat-rakshak, Once upon a time I thought that a direct terrorist attack aimed at the highest echelons of the political class itself, might be such a redline. But the parliament attack, and Parakram thereafter, put paid to that notion. We worry about taking strong action any action, why? Because it may ruin our dreams our dreams of becoming the world’s second biggest economy by 2050, the dreams of 10% economic growth, the dreams of 300million middle class, the dreams of an IT superpower

Rarely do we pause and think what happens to those dreams when 200 people get killed just because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time?

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 03 Jun 2009 15:04

Actually, pakis should target some state assembly and kill some prominent politicians. Then we will sure see the much awaited 'political will' among our national leaders.

on second thoughts, maybe not. May be such an attack would scare them even more and they might do a peace deal with pakis similar to paki deal with talibs in SWAT. Remember, LTTE killed Rajiv and Indian political masters didnt have the guts to do anything militaryly in Sri Lanka.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Jun 2009 16:27

johneeG wrote:PS: This my first post, ........

Welcome to the board, johneeG

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 03 Jun 2009 16:32

SSridhar wrote:
johneeG wrote:PS: This my first post, ........
Welcome to the board, johneeG

Thanx Saar. I am your fan, Guruji and also of Shivji and Vsudhirji.

he he....

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Jun 2009 19:30

TSP High Commissioner meets Indian Foreign Secretary

Sources, however, said Mr. Malik told Mr. Menon that Islamabad was considering legal options in the wake of the High Court order but gave no commitment about challenging the court decision.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 03 Jun 2009 19:48

What a pathetic situation we are, and I know it was said in jest, but we are actually rooting for a TSP attack on our high and might so at least then, there will be action. My hunch is that even then, India will not act; simply because the high & might are also split along India's other fault lines; case, language, religion etc. So for example, an attack on BJP cadres would considered legitimate by the seeeekoooolar elite.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 03 Jun 2009 19:49

AjayKK wrote:Considering that Pakis have attacked Parliament, temples, bazaars, buses, trains, festive occasions, un armed citizens, the next wave will only be on a larger scale.

As an example of Mumbai, how difficult ( or easy ) is it to target the Chhatrapati Shivaji Int Airport?

The curious fact is that none of the paki attacks were wholly unexpected. In the months leading to Mumbai, there were several statements regarding two specific types of threats. The first by MKN, Navy Chief etc was about the real threat of maritime terrorism. This was not an althu phaltu off the cuff remark, the statements even reached a fever pitch and I wondered "what is all this hoopla about this new 'maritime terrorism', wasn't explosives landed in Guj during '93 mumbai blasts ?". Strangely, neither the press nor the babus ever cared to explain *after* Mumbai attacks, why so many people were making noises about terrorism through the sea *before* mumbai attacks and what, if anything, had been done about it (apart from making grandiose speeches).

The second specific type of threat that was mentioned many times was to our dams and power projects.

Anurag · Post by **Anurag** » 03 Jun 2009 20:03

I'm just curious, how hard is it to take this Hafeez character out on TSP soil? It would be proving a point surely!

arun · Post by **arun** » 03 Jun 2009 23:30

In obliging Pakistan nothing it appears is too much for the US. The US has now agreed to the morphing of an UN resolution into an “internal issue” of Pakistan.

Richard Holbrooke’s comment at the joint press conference with Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari and Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi on the issue of the release of Hafiz Saeed:

"I don't want to comment on the issue at this press conference. It is Pakistan's internal issue. That's all I can say,"

PTI

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 04 Jun 2009 01:08

Nice post AjayKK - we need to remind ourselves of these atrocities. I dont see much difference between us and cows. Cows dont have a sense of outrage when their brothers, daughters get killed in a slaughter-house because they have no memory. Are we any different - we dont remember last year's attacks, we dont remember what the Mughals and later the Brits did to us, we dont remember Unkil's double standards. We will continue to die in thousands just like cows - the only difference is that we wont end up on anyone's dinner plate.

There seems to be a notion that India has survived for thousands of years and if we keep our heads down and close our eyes, all this will blow over. That we will emerge at the other side of this mess, having survived one more onslaught.

The only thing IMO that will make us react is a nuke attack. Even there I have my doubts.