Afghanistan News & Discussion

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60273
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Khalilzad was a RAND warrior and US Ambassador. How low the PAhtun have fallen.

Meanwhile
The Telegraph, 26 MAy 2009

US for smaller India role in Kabul
US for smaller India role in Kabul
- Pakistan pressure to prune consulate footprint in Afghanistan
JAYANTH JACOB

New Delhi, May 26: The US administration is nudging India to scale down its presence in Afghanistan — including pruning or closing down its consulates — in line with Islamabad’s demands, sources said.

This stand goes against US policy of the past eight years, when Washington wanted India to send troops to Afghanistan.

The US is now hunting new allies to “stabilise” Pakistan and Afghanistan, such as China, Saudi Arabia and Iran that have leverage with Islamabad, as President Obama’s Afpak policy takes off.

Delhi’s role in the rebuilding of Afghanistan, including infrastructure projects and integrated development projects, has not gone down well with Pakistan, which sees India’s strategic interest in its presence.

Islamabad, which is the epicentre of America’s fight against terror in the region, is pressuring Washington to prevail upon New Delhi to reduce its presence in Afghanistan.

The matter was hinted at in talks with India when Richard Holbrooke, the US administration’s special representative for Pakistan and Afghanistan, was in Delhi recently. The sources said the US would like India to prune or shut down consulates in Herat and Jalalabad.

Other than the embassy in Kabul, India has four missions in Afghanistan — in Kandahar, Mazar-e-Sharif, Herat and Jalalabad.

Herat and Jalalabad are in regions where the Taliban are active, and Islamabad accuses India of using its consulates there to whip up anti-Pakistan sentiments. While Herat borders Iran, Jalalabad is close to Pakistan.

The Obama administration is leaning towards Pakistan’s friends China and Saudi Arabia as the fight against the Taliban in the country becomes increasingly tenuous. Holbrooke visited China on April 16 and the US has sounded out Beijing on helping Pakistan fight the insurgents, the sources added.

China has an immediate interest in this, having made huge investments in Pakistan, where some 10,000 of its engineers and technicians work. Besides, Pakistani training camps are blamed for the insurgency in the Xinjiang region of China. With Iran too coming into the picture in US policy on Afghanistan, Washington would be keener on shifting its focus on countries that have greater influence on Islamabad than New Delhi.
See how well he articulates everybody's interests except India's! per this moron India has no interests in Afghanistan except stir trouble for TSP!
Keshav
BRFite
Posts: 633
Joined: 20 Sep 2007 08:53
Location: USA

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Keshav »

ramana wrote: See how well he articulates everybody's interests except India's! per this moron India has no interests in Afghanistan except stir trouble for TSP!
Don't get mad at the author, he's just reporting what Obama and Washington think about the situation!
svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14222
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by svinayak »

ramana wrote:Khalilzad was a RAND warrior and US Ambassador. How low the PAhtun have fallen.

Meanwhile
The Telegraph, 26 MAy 2009

US for smaller India role in Kabul
- Pakistan pressure to prune consulate footprint in Afghanistan
JAYANTH JACOB
See how well he articulates everybody's interests except India's! per this moron India has no interests in Afghanistan except stir trouble for TSP!
This is a lifafa article paid by Uncle and its interest group
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25382
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

ramana wrote:The Telegraph, 26 May 2009

US for smaller India role in Kabul
US for smaller India role in Kabul
- Pakistan pressure to prune consulate footprint in Afghanistan
JAYANTH JACOB

New Delhi, May 26: The US administration is nudging India to scale down its presence in Afghanistan — including pruning or closing down its consulates — in line with Islamabad’s demands, sources said.
I won't be surprised if what Jayanth Jacob has written is indeed true. The Obama administration has started putting more pressure on India in order to 'appease' Pakistan. The events of the last few weeks bear testimony to that.

In the meanwhile, The Afghan Question and a Unique Opportunity for India
High-level sources say India wants more cooperation with the SCO in trade and culture, but will not like to engage with the bloc in the military and political spheres.
We have to recall that on the same day that the Obama administration announced its Fak Ap review, the SCO also announced its initiatives for the Afghan problem, known as the Moscow Declaration. While there was similarity in approach as far as the involvement of neighbours and regional players such as Russia, China, India, Iran and Pakistan in resolving the Afghan situation, it differed from the US policy of differentiating among the Taliban. This Declaration also castigated Pakistan for its support to terrorism and asked it to dismantle these infrastructure,
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60273
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

SSridhar, Whats going on in Herat? I thought that was Hazara territory? How is it a Taliban area now? What are the Paki objections to the consulates in Jalalabad and Herat?
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25382
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

The Hazaras had at times taken Taliban protection to ward off Masoud and the like. The Taliban had also massacred the hazaras in turn. May be, they both consider the US as more dangerous and a common enemy. The Taliban are also moving into Herat, as part of the classic guerrilla warfare of not confronting the enemy and seeking refuge somewhere for tactical reasons.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60273
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Maybe the Hazaras are taking Iranian protection and that causes massa takleef so label them bad Taliban?
Paul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3801
Joined: 25 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Paul »

Herat was/is? under Ismail Khan's control...I wonder what happened to him.

Hazaras are one of the most progressive sect of muslim communities in Afganistan. Hizb-e-Whadat. Their warlord was killed by the taliban by being thrown from a helicopter. They have been singled out for harsh treatment from all other Afghan communities - Hekmatyar, Taliban, Tajiks, Uzbeks etc.

A number of Taliban had kidnapped Hazara women and brought them to Kabul. This was in the news.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60273
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

So what does the report mean when it says Herat is where the Taliban are active in addition to other places.
How can it be Herat? Are they trying to paint the HeW as bad Taliban? Black beans onlee not just lentils.
Paul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3801
Joined: 25 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Paul »

Taliban taking over western Afghanistan is a case of overreach. How can the Taliban be expected to take over western swat valley, bannu, and come all the way to slumabad when they not managed to beat down the Shias of parchinar.

The Taliban control of the territories they claim to control is tenuous at best. They can be pushed out by a determined adversary if it musters the will.

It may be possible that Taliban are being encouraged to take control of territories adjacent to Iran so that multiple objectives are accomplished at the same time. (alternate to Ramana's theory)

It also strikes me as strange that at the same time Iran is making belligerent noise over Jundallah activities in Balochistan and has closed the border with Pakistan.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60273
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Paul, It would be nice if you and a few others can spend some time at this Taliban in Herat issue.

BTW anybody has read this book?

Taliban and Crisis of Afghanistan

It has a chapter on moderate Taliban.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25382
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

I have put in a nutshell the Afghan jihad and the Taliban phenomenon and the role played by the Hazaras in that.

After the Soviet withdrawal, the Afghan Mujahideen met in Peshawar with the blessings of the US and Pakistan and elected a government in exile in which Hekmatyar was Foreign Minister and Rabbani was Interior Minister. Benazir Bhutto decided to recognize this government provided they could capture at least one important Afghan city from Najibullah. Accordingly, Jalalabad was chosen as the target but the Mujahideen were severely mauled by the forces of Najibullah. This caused resentment among the constituents of the 'Islamic Alliance of Afghan Mujahideen' which was anyway a disparate grouping prone to internecine war. Soon Hekmatyar and Ahmed Shah Masoud began killing each others' forces. Masoud joined hands with Najibullah and thwarted Hekmatyar's attacks on Kabul. The Masoud group split away from the Islamic Alliance of Afghan Mujahideen and formed Islamic Jihad Council with the support of the US. President Najibullah, in order to cause further splits, gave autonomy to the Hazaras and the Uzbeks and the Uzbek Abdul Rashid Dostum defected to the Najibullah camp. However, the Mujahideen were slowly expanding in the countryside leaving Najibullah with the control of only cities, Mazar-e-Sharif, Kabul, Kandahar, Jalalabad and Herat. In April 1992, Kabul fell to Rashid and Dostum.

Almost a million Hazaras had migrated to Kabul during this period and they were loyal to the Hizb-e-Wahadat-e-Islami led by Ayatollah Abdul Ali Mazari. Kabul thus came firmly in the hands of non-Pashtun forces. An angry Hekmatyar constantly rocket-attacked Kabul and the Hazaras joined hands with Rashid & Dostum to defend the city. By end of circa 1992, the Islamabad Declaration was signed, helped by Nawaz Sharif, which made Hekmatyar as Prime Minister and Rabbani as President. The Hazaras had by now defected and joined hands with Hekmatyar. The difference between giving the Shi’a Jafaria code the same status as Sunni codes led to further violence in circa 1993 and in the end, Rabbani’s forces evicted Hekmatyar’s and Dostum’s forces from Kabul.

While this internecine war was going on among the more well-known mujahideen groups, Gen. Naseerullah Khan Babar, a Pashtun, a former Chief of the Frontier Corps and now the Minister for Interior in Benazir Bhuto's cabinet and her confidante too, silently encouraged Mullah Mohammed Omar Akhund. Mullah Omar's first victory was at Spin Boldak where he took control of Hekmatyar's cache of arms. Pakistan had decided to shift support away from Hekmatyar. They then pushed through and defeated Hekmatyar in his stronghold and made him flee to Tehran through his Hazara contacts. The old Hekmatyar enemy, Masoud, now attacked the helpless Wahdat party Shi'as in Kabul and they sought Taliban protection. In a confused fighting, the Taliban killed the Wahdat chief Mazari. Masoud then eliminated the remaining Shi'as and defeated the Taliban. Masoud was quite strong with a large number of Soviet Tanks, gunships and about a hundred MiGs.

After being turned away from Kabul, the Taliban attacked Herat and captured it within a year in 1996. Its chief Ismail Khan, fled to Iran. The Taliban then captured Kabul in 1997. In May, Pakistan, KSA and UAE recognized the Taliban regime. Soon, heavy fighting broke out between the Taliban on the one hand and a Dostum commander and the Shi'a forces on the other hand in Mazar-e-Sharif. The Taliban were massacred and they had to retreat to Kunduz. The forces of Masoud, Dostum and the Wahdat Shi'as, known as the Northern Alliance, now mounted pressure on the Taliban. However, true to their nature, the disparate Northern Alliance began fighting among themselves and this gave the Taliban a window of opportunity in Sep 1998 when they moved into Bamian and Mazar-e-Sharif where they killed a large number of Shi'as, including Iranian diplomats. In circa 2000, Pervez Musharraf ensured that Masoud's Tajikistan supply line was disrupted by the Taliban.

The rest is history as Masoud was killed by two suicide bombers and 9/11 happened.
amol.p
BRFite
Posts: 302
Joined: 14 Sep 2006 18:15
Location: pune

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by amol.p »

Russian advice: More troops won't help in Afghanistan

http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102599284833& ... 7SBv5J9A==

Many challenges that bedeviled the Soviets confront the American operation today, the retired envoys and generals said. Among them are vicious tribal rivalries, a weak central government, radical Islamists, power-hungry warlords, incompetent or corrupt local military commanders, failing infrastructure and the complexity of fighting guerrilla groups. The former officials also cautioned that trying to bring democracy to Afghanistan, or anything resembling it, will be as fruitless as their attempts to install communism.

"You may elect a parliament, you may invite parliamentary delegations from Afghanistan to visit Europe, but it means nothing," said Boris Pastukhov, whose service as Soviet ambassador began in 1989, the year the Red Army withdrew. "The decisions by parliament cannot be compared with the decisions of a jirga," a tribal council.

The fundamental problem in Afghanistan is that it isn't a country in the way the West thinks of countries, said retired Lt. Gen. Ruslan Aushev, who did two tours there and left as a regimental commander.

There has never been any real centralized state in Afghanistan. There is no such nation as Afghanistan," said Aushev, who's a former president of the Russian Caucasus republic of Ingushetia and now heads a veterans group in Moscow. "There are (ethnic groups of) Pashtuns, Uzbeks and Tajiks, and they all have different tribal policies."
AnimeshP
BRFite
Posts: 514
Joined: 01 Dec 2008 07:39

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by AnimeshP »

SSridhar wrote:I have put in a nutshell the Afghan jihad and the Taliban phenomenon and the role played by the Hazaras in that.
Sridhar saar ... very nice summary ... fills in a lot of gaps in my understanding of the Afghan civil war ... thank you.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25382
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

India has a role to play in Afghanistan - Holbrooke
Answering another question, the special envoy said though he was not the special representative for India, he was in constant touch with the Indian government for “obvious” reasons.

“India is a very important player not only in the region, but also internationally and throughout the globe. They have a legitimate role to play in the search for stability in the region, and a legitimate need to be fully informed of what we are doing,” he said.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60273
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

X-post...
From Pioneer, 10 June 2009
EDITS | Wednesday, June 10, 2009 | Email | Print |


Dealing with Afghanistan

Ashok K Mehta

The Obama Administration’s special envoy for AfPak Richard Holbrooke said last week in Islamabad that India had a legitimate role in providing stability to Afghanistan and the region and though he was not designated to India, he kept in constant touch with its officials. Such comments are bound to ruffle feathers in Islamabad where the establishment remains concerned about India’s encirclement of Pakistan to negate its dated quest for strategic depth in Afghanistan. Some Afghans complain that New Delhi and Islamabad are using their soil to fight their battles adding insult and injury to a deeply divided country trapped between foreign forces and the Taliban.

The Taliban say that while Americans have the watches, they have the time. Mullah Omar, the elusive Taliban leader who “wants foreigners to leave Afghanistan”, forgets that US-led Nato forces are in no hurry to leave the region even though ‘an exit policy’ is a political imperative of the new AfPak strategy. Afghans have begun to understand that sovereignty and decision-making will remain in the hands of outsiders who are both part of the problem and the solution. If they were to leave, their fear is that the Taliban would take over.

Without contiguous borders and a transit corridor through Pakistan, India realises the limits to what it can do in Afghanistan. New Delhi has always sought an India-friendly regime in Kabul and had supported the Northern Alliance in retention of a toe-hold in Badakshan, warding off Pakistan-backed Taliban assaults in the late-1990s. It was from this launch pad that the US-led forces rolled back the Taliban in 2001. :P

New Delhi’s strategic priorities are to ensure that the Taliban’s ideology and its brand of terror are not exported to India; there is no shade of the Taliban represented in the Government in Kabul; external interference is minimal; it can create space for access to central Asia and Afghans are able to stand on their own feet, recovering their strategic autonomy. In other words, making their own decisions.

The role India gets to play is circumscribed by Islamabad’s exaggerated fears of New Delhi and Kabul ganging up against its own legitimate interests, a concession that the US and the West make for Pakistan’s cooperation in fighting the Taliban and Al Qaeda. The recent Pakistani Army offensive in Malakand division has impressed the US and Pakistan will extract a price which could include seeking a further dilution of India’s activities in Afghanistan.

India has been largely kept out of the political and security dynamics in Kabul — confined to development and reconstruction activities while maintaining a strong bilateral relationship with Afghanistan, employing its rich soft power. While India engages more than 30 countries in a strategic dialogue, strangely this does not include any SAARC country. India remains on listening watch as part of the wider regional contact group with a special envoy accredited to it. :?:

Pakistan has credited the four Indian consulates at Herat, Mazar-e-Sharif, Jalalabad and Kandahar, and the trade office in Khost, with surreal capacity for anti-Pakistan operations. The eight-man consulate in Kandahar, for example, is depicted as 800-strong, up to no good and fomenting insurgency in Baluchistan. Similarly, the Jalalabad consulate, which is also close to the Pakistani border, frequently hits the headlines and is on the Taliban-ISI hitlist, as are other Indian assets and projects inside Afghanistan. The suicide bombing of the Indian Embassy in Kabul last year, executed by the Taliban, an acknowledged ISI strategic asset, has not been forgotten.

Kabul recognises the centrality of New Delhi in its reconstruction and peace-building programme. Iran and Pakistan are the other two active regional players with Afghanistan’s Northern and Central Asian neighbours keeping a low profile. India is the sixth largest bilateral donor with $ 1.2 billion committed in numerous projects varying from building toilets to transmission lines spread across the country in all 27 provinces. The development projects are conceived by the Afghans with security being provided by them.

The Delaram-Zaranj blacktop road, the first in Nimroz province, was built by Indian Border Roads Organisations, 400 ITBP men providing close protection were guarded by 1,400 Afghan security personnel — 139 of them were killed protecting the Indians.

The development assistance programme, the largest outside India, is regarded a foreign policy success and falls into four categories: Humanitarian, infrastructure, small development projects and capacity-building. These include building medical missions, the Parliament building, transmission lines for electricity from Uzbekistan to Kabul, frequently called the capital of darkness, 50 small projects and providing training facilities for Afghan public services, scholarships for higher education, rehabilitation of war widows and much more.

Lack of land access is the biggest impediment to relief, reconstruction and rehabilitation work. Pakistan has refused passage to 100,000 tonnes of protein biscuits meant for school children and 250,000 tonnes of wheat to serve as Afghanistan strategic food reserve. This despite India meeting its condition of removing ‘Made in India’ labels and allowing Pakistani trucks to carry the cargo. The alternative route, via Chabahar Port in Iran, involves 30 per cent time and cost overruns.

Although the Afghan Defence and Interior Ministries want Indian participation in these sectors, New Delhi keeps out in deference to Islamabad’s sensitivities. Instead of cooperating in Afghanistan’s development and even undertaking joint projects, India and Pakistan try cancelling each other out. Mistrust and suspicion are of high order. Both countries should discuss their legitimate interests, avoiding bitterness and conflict. There are 40 countries and 120 NGOs active inside Afghanistan but none as antagonistic to each other as India and Pakistan.

Both Afghanistan and Pakistan are conflict-ridden countries, stricken with terrorism and religious extremism that spills across to India, which, therefore, has a legitimate interest in the internal stability and security of both countries. As soon as the composite dialogue in whatever shape is resumed, a frank bilateral conversation on Afghanistan is of paramount importance.

Afghanistan has no bilateral dialogue mechanism with Pakistan. In 2007, during a Pakistan-Afghanistan summit in Islamabad, President Hamid Karzai provided a list of Afghan Taliban safe-houses in Quetta. But there was no action — for Pakistan, these were the ‘good’ Taliban. New Delhi, Islamabad and Kabul can find common ground for peace by collectively confronting the entire Taliban, good, bad and ugly.

For the present, India’s strategic restraint in Afghanistan includes no boots on the ground, again not to rock relations with Pakistan. The western frontier astride the Durand Line and the Hindukush is the historical invasion route to New Delhi and its first line of defence. We should be looking at Paakpiya and Pakpika in Afghanistan, not Panipat.
JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7143
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by JE Menon »

Paakpiya and Pakpika :rotfl:

cute
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21537
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Philip »

The Taliban can never be defeated says a former Paki "renegade" ISI agent,who allegedly knows Afghanistan's warriors best.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 445981.ece
The Taliban will ‘never be defeated’

‘Colonel Imam’, the Pakistani agent who trained Mullah Omar and the warlords to fight the Soviets, says the US must negotiate with its enemies
The Taliban have Nato forces trapped says 'Colonel Imam'. Eventually the West will tire.
Christina Lamb in Rawalpindi

THE Pakistani intelligence agent who trained Mullah Omar, the Taliban leader, to fight has warned that Nato forces will never overpower their enemies in Afghanistan and should talk to them rather than sacrifice more lives.

“You can never win the war in Afghanistan,” said so-called “Colonel Imam”, who ran a training programme for the Afghan resistance to the Soviet Union’s occupation from 1979 to 1989, then helped to form the Taliban.

“I have worked with these people since the 1970s and I tell you they will never be defeated. Anyone who has come here has got stuck. The more you kill, the more they will expand.”

A tall, bearded figure, whose real name is Amir Sultan Tarar, he trained at Fort Bragg, the US army base where America’s special forces are stationed.

Facebook Pakistanis unite against terror
Battle for a Taliban town of terror
Jemima Khan's broken country

During the late 1970s and 1980s he controlled CIA-funded training camps for 95,000 Afghans and often accompanied his students on missions.

After the Soviet defeat and the collapse of communism, he was invited to the White House by the first President George Bush and was given a piece of the Berlin Wall with a brass plaque inscribed: “To the one who dealt the first blow.”

Today western intelligence agencies believe Imam is among a group of renegade officers from Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence agency (ISI) who continued to help the Taliban after Pakistan turned against them following the attacks of September 11, 2001.

United Nations officials and Afghanistan’s intelligence service have reported sightings of him in the Afghan provinces of Helmand and Uruzgan. It is a charge he shrugs off, claiming that at 65 he has not worked for almost eight years.

“I wish I could do it but they don’t need me any more,” he says. “My students are far ahead of me now. They are giving a lesson to the world. I am very proud of them.”

Although he expresses great admiration for the British military (“far more gallant than the Americans”), Imam says that in sending troops to Helmand, Britain had forgotten its previous wars in Afghanistan.

In particular, he chides, they should have remembered the battle of Maiwand in 1880, in which 2,500 British troops took on 25,000 Afghans and suffered a devastating defeat.

“When people in Helmand heard the British were coming back, the cry went up all over: ‘Remember Maiwand? Our old enemy has come to the same area where they were once defeated to take revenge’. Then everyone, Taliban and nonTaliban, joined together. They told me on the phone, ‘Don’t worry, we’ll make sure the Brits don’t have an easy time’.”

His comments come as the number of British soldiers killed by enemy action in Afghanistan has risen to 137, one more than the number who have died in Iraq.

According to Imam, Helmand is particularly difficult because of the character of the people. “They couldn’t care less about loss of property or loss of life,” he said.

It is unlikely that anybody alive today knows the Afghans as well as Imam. All the key figures were trained in his camps, from the late Ahmad Shah Massoud, the Lion of Panj-shir, to warlords such as Gul-buddin Hekmatyar, his “naughtiest” student. “It was a matter of pride for me that my students later became big commanders,” he said.

“The Afghan is a very cunning soldier,” he added. “He picks things up very quickly and never forgets. As a Pakistani unit commander I’d be training my men for six months and maybe they would remember 70%. But in Afghanistan teenagers came, had only three days’ weapon training and they remembered 100%. In just 15 days they mastered the Stinger [the shoulder-mounted surface-to-air missile].”

Omar passed through his camps in 1985. “He was a simple man, a small commander leading a maximum of 40 people and didn’t have much weaponry,” Imam recalled.

One of Imam’s biggest backers was Congressman Charlie Wilson, the Texan who was instrumental in securing funding for Operation Cyclone, the CIA programme to supply arms with which the mujaheddin would fight the Soviet troops.

“He used to dance with happiness at seeing our training camps,” said Imam.

Within 10 years the Russians had been forced out. “Total expenditure just $5 billion and not a single American life,” said Imam. “Now the Americans are spending hundreds of billions and losing hundreds of lives.”

The last time he saw Wilson was after the 1988 Geneva accords on the Soviet withdrawal. Imam told him: “You’re abandoning the Afghans. They need financial support for rehabilitation.” Wilson replied: “Dollars don’t grow on trees.” “Do Afghan youth grow on trees?” asked Imam. “Over 1.5m Afghans have died.”

Furious at the American betrayal and devastated by the resulting infighting in the Afghan resistance, he became close to Omar. “I love him,” he said. “He brought peace to Afghanistan.”

Imam was Pakistan’s consul-general in Herat when the Taliban captured the city in 1995 from Ismail Khan, the mujaheddin commander, who claims the ISI agent oversaw the whole Taliban operation. From there he guided the Taliban as they took over the cities of Mazar-e-Sharif and Jalalabad and eventually captured Kabul.

Like many Pakistanis he refuses to believe the September 11 attacks were carried out by Osama Bin Laden. “An operation like that needs ground support,” he said. “I have no doubt it was carried out by the Americans to give a bad name to the Taliban government as an excuse to topple it.”

When General Pervez Musharraf, then president of Pakistan, agreed to American pressure to cut ties to the Taliban, the colonel was outraged.

Recalled to Islamabad, he told Musharraf: “You cannot defeat these people, they are well trained, they have a lot of ammunition and the more you kill, the more supporters will come.”

Today he adds: “It was the blunder of his life and because of it we are all doomed.”

Imam left Afghanistan when the US bombing of the country ceased in 2001 and claims he has not returned. “I can go any time on my old routes, even the Americans cannot stop me, but there is no need,” he said. “I have friends roaming all over there. At times they give me a call, they like to hear my voice.

“I’m quite happy with the current situation because the Americans are trapped there. The Taliban will not win but in the end the enemy will tire, like the Russians.”

He has offered to find the Americans a way out: “We can give them a face-saving solution but they must change their strategy.”

First, he says, they must spend billions on reconstruction. Then they must open talks with Omar rather than the so-called moderate Taliban with whom negotiations are under way.

“When are you people going to understand there are no number two Taliban?” he asked. “Those who break away from mainstream Taliban have no place in society. You may make deals in Dubai or Saudi Arabia, but when they come back to Afghanistan and people know they have compromised with the Americans, they are finished.

“In Afghanistan the only man who can make a decision and people listen is Mullah Omar. He’s a very reasonable man. He would listen and work for the interests of his country.”

He insisted the Taliban leader was not in Pakistan: “He’s in the hills of Uruzgan, his home province. If there’s a requirement he will listen to me, but why should I get him involved in a risky situation?”

Imam said he had watched with horror as fighting spread into Pakistan and had been shocked to see his fellow officers having to fight against their own countrymen in the Swat district.

“These are not Taliban, they are tribals,” he said. “Mullah Omar told them time and time again not to fight against Pakistan. They are fighting against the government of Pakistan because it is supporting the enemies of Islam. Everybody knows our government is supporting the US drone attacks in our own area.

“This is an American plan to make us a subjugated country and have an excuse to get our nukes. Everybody, your prime minister, President Obama, all go, ‘Oh, the nuclear weapons are unsafe’. I say you’re making them unsafe. When you were not in the region there was no problem.”

The call for prayer brings our interview to an end. Before he goes he has one last warning: “I tell you when my nation rises up it is not Afghanistan, not Iraq. There will be tremendous killing.”
svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14222
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by svinayak »

Philip wrote:

Within 10 years the Russians had been forced out. “Total expenditure just $5 billion and not a single American life,” said Imam. “Now the Americans are spending hundreds of billions and losing hundreds of lives.”
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60273
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

So Christina Lamb is talking to old handlers of the Taliban. Something is afoot.
svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14222
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by svinayak »

ramana wrote:So Christina Lamb is talking to old handlers of the Taliban. Something is afoot.
The reference to old afghan wars and Charlie Wilson is a pointer to some audience in the west.
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21537
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Philip »

Quoting again from Imam....Not for the first time are the Afghans of Helmand putting the Brits to flight!

It is true what they say about history that those who have not learnt its lessons,are doomed to repeat it the first time a tragedy,the second time a farce.
In particular, he chides, they should have remembered the battle of Maiwand in 1880, in which 2,500 British troops took on 25,000 Afghans and suffered a devastating defeat.

“When people in Helmand heard the British were coming back, the cry went up all over: ‘Remember Maiwand? Our old enemy has come to the same area where they were once defeated to take revenge’. Then everyone, Taliban and nonTaliban, joined together. They told me on the phone, ‘Don’t worry, we’ll make sure the Brits don’t have an easy time’.”

His comments come as the number of British soldiers killed by enemy action in Afghanistan has risen to 137, one more than the number who have died in Iraq.

According to Imam, Helmand is particularly difficult because of the character of the people. “They couldn’t care less about loss of property or loss of life,” he said.
British troops at mercy of Taliban surge
Average of 12 attacks a day by insurgents in Helmand, new figures show

By Kim Sengupta, Defence Correspondent
Friday, 12 June 2009

Troops of 3rd Battalion, The Royal Regiment of Scotland and soldiers from the Afghan National Army in the Upper Sangin Valley, Helmand province

British troops fighting the Taliban are facing three times as many attacks as any other Nato force in Afghanistan amid spiralling violence across the country which has seen insurgent bombings and shootings rise by 73 per cent.

Official Nato figures reveal that fatalities among the international force, including British, have risen by 78 per cent while the targeting of officials serving the beleaguered Afghan government has increased by 64 per cent.

The details of the ferocity of the conflict emerged as Nato ministers meeting in the Netherlands acknowledged that the tide must be turned in the conflict. The US Defence Secretary Robert Gates stressed the urgent need to "shift the momentum", saying "the patience of the American people and Congress would wear pretty thin... if in a year or so it appears we are in a stalemate and we're taking even more casualties".

Related articles
British soldier killed in Afghanistan
Kim Sengupta: The enemy in Helmand is tough and resilient

General David Petraeus, the US commander in charge of Afghan operations, pointed out that violence reached an all-time high last week. He bluntly said that there was no question that security had deteriorated over the past two years and that "there are still tough times ahead" as the country prepares for national elections in August.

The figures from the International Security and Assistance Force chart the level of violence between January and March this year compared with the same period last year. It shows that the use of improvised explosive devices – bombs and mines – rose by 87 per cent, causing 60 per cent of casualties.

Senior military sources said the main reason for the sharp rise in violence was that the Taliban had continued their missions through winter, traditionally the time for a break in fighting. Insurgent attacks have continued since and British forces suffered 12 deaths in May, the second highest month for British fatalities in the conflict.

Helmand, the centre of British operations, has experienced almost 12 insurgent attacks a day. Kandahar, the spiritual birthplace of the Taliban, and the scene of fierce clashes in the past, had the second highest number of attacks, at four a day.

Afghan and Western officials say that Helmand has become of symbolic importance to Islamist groups because of large swaths of rural areas where they have sought to set up alternative governments and also because it produces 44 per cent of the country's supply of opium, a lucrative source of funding for the insurgency.

About 12,000 US troops are arriving in Helmand as part of the 30,000 reinforcements sent by President Obama in preparation for a "surge" of troop numbers in the summer. The Taliban leadership, based in Pakistan, is said to be apprehensive about the forthcoming operations by US and British forces and, according to some accounts, is attempting to mount its own pre-emptive "surge". At the same time, say defence and diplomatic sources, there are signs that at a local level some Taliban fighters are showing a willingness to take part in talks and involve themselves in the governance process.

Defence sources say that strides have been made in countering roadside blasts with better safety procedures, leading to the detection of more than 50 per cent of bombs and mines before they detonate. The figures also show that the number of civilians killed has fallen by 39 per cent. The Afghan President, Hamid Karzai, has said civilian deaths resulting from Nato air strikes, including the most recent in which 10 adults and five children died in Ghor province in western Afghanistan, had been the main source of friction between him and his Western sponsors.
The military experts of the west have said it loud and clear,that you cannot win the Afghan War.Gen.Petraeus will bite the dust like the galaxy of British generals before him.Both in "Mespot" and Afghanistan,ultimately the western armies will go home with their tails tucked between their legs.Baghdad has just been voted (report in a Brit paper) as the "world's woorst city" to live in because of the dangers there.I'm sure that soon Peshawar and Lahore will also make it in the top ten of the worst too,
RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16006
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by RajeshA »

Philip wrote:Baghdad has just been voted (report in a Brit paper) as the "world's woorst city" to live in because of the dangers there.I'm sure that soon Peshawar and Lahore will also make it in the top ten of the worst too,
Why this discrimination against Karachi? :((
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19334
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by NRao »

Electricity transforms Kabul living

One more item for Obama to consider for banning?
Life at the house of Sayed Abdul Rahim has become, in his words, "easier and more entertaining".

Mr Rahim's clothes are now ironed regularly, he is able to enjoy daily hot baths, his children no longer have to squint at their homework by candlelight, and his 10-year-old son, Ajmal, never misses his favourite Indian soap operas on television.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25382
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

NRao wrote:Mr Rahim's clothes are now ironed regularly, . . .
Haraam. Let the 'good' Taliban come back to power in Kabul to teach the mushrakeen Rahim the real Islam of the Salafi/Wahhabi/Deobandi variety. 'Ironing' clothes is certainly unIslamic.
Gerard
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8012
Joined: 15 Nov 1999 12:31

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Gerard »

US in 'secret' talks with Taliban
The United States is alleged to have stepped up secret talks with the Taliban in a bid to resolve the escalating conflict in Afghanistan, an Italian magazine claimed on Friday. The latest edition of Panorama said that the Obama administration had given "new life" to a strategy begun by the previous Bush administration last September to negotiate with "moderate" Taliban leaders.
shravan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2212
Joined: 03 Apr 2009 00:08

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by shravan »

Rockets hit US base at Bagram, kill 2 US troops
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... QD98UUOU00

By JASON STRAZIUSO – 29 minutes ago

KABUL (AP) — A rare rocket attack on the main U.S. base in Afghanistan early Sunday killed two U.S. troops and wounded six other Americans, including two civilians, officials said.

Bagram Air Base, which lies 25 miles (40 kilometers) northeast of Kabul, is surrounded by high mountains and long stretches of desert from which militants could fire rockets. But such attacks, particularly lethal ones, are relatively rare.

Two U.S. troops died and six Americans were wounded, including four military personnel and two civilians, said Lt. Cmdr. Christine Sidenstricker, a U.S. military spokeswoman.

The top government official in Bagram, Kabir Ahmad, said several rockets were fired at the base early Sunday. A spokesman with NATO's International Security Assistance Force said that three rounds landed inside Bagram and one landed outside. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn't the office's top spokesman.

The wounded personnel were taken to the main hospital on Bagram for treatment. ISAF said it wasn't known if any Afghan civilians living near the base were harmed in the attack.

It wasn't immediately clear if New York Times reporter David S. Rohde was at Bagram on Sunday when the rockets hit.

Rohde escaped from kidnappers in Pakistan on Friday after more than seven months in captivity and was flown to Bagram on Saturday. Embassy officials then gave him an emergency passport and FBI officials were watching him, a U.S. official said Sunday on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to release the information.
Paul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3801
Joined: 25 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Paul »

JE Menon wrote:
>the Khanate of Kalat on August 15

If memory serves, the Khanate of Kalat declared independence on Aug. 11 before either Pakistan or India...

A video on the baloch saga and why the Brits did not want the Baloch and the Aghani royals coming together, same as why POK was hived off India and given to the Paki mercenaries.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQyyyM0-KSE
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60273
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Paul, Please post synopsis of the reasons for those who cant view the video.
Paul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3801
Joined: 25 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Paul »

The Brit did not want the Russians to gain access to the warm waters of the indian ocean and direct access to India. If the afghan and baloch royals came together under one flag (most likely under the saddozais) russia would be able to come close to realizing peter's dying instructions to his descendants.....


The Brits most likely by the 1930s were anticpating withdrawal from India and had pretty much given up on afghanistan. One more reason as to why Caroe wanted a new state. After 1919, the Brits could feel Afghanistan slipping under Russian control....and anticipated a Russian invasion of the subcontinent, for this reason they kept the frontier and Baloch areas undeveloped with minimal surface transport ameneties.....Their thinking was validated in 1979.

This line of throught still persists in Delhi Babcracy...They kept the NE undeveloped for many years anticipating a second 1962.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25382
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

Re-negotiation of the Kyrgyz route by the US
Kyrgyzstan earlier this year ordered the Americans to leave by mid-August the Manas airbase set up in 2001. Under the new agreement, the Pentagon will continue to use Manas airport as a “centre of transit shipments” to Afghanistan, but only for non-lethal cargo.
This probably explains why Diego Garcia and the flights from there to Afghanistan have started. The US should have stopped for quite some time now sending lethal cargo through Karachi port and Khyber or Chaman Passes.
RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16006
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by RajeshA »

US, Russia may sign deal boosting Afghan transit: Report: AFP
The United States and Russia may soon sign a deal boosting the transit of US supplies to Afghanistan through Russia, the Kommersant daily reported Monday, citing diplomatic sources.

The agreement could be signed when US President Barack Obama visits Moscow next week, Kommersant reported, citing sources close to NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer.

The deal could involve a dozen US planes flying over Russia each day with military cargos, rather than just rail shipments of non-lethal supplies as Moscow now allows, a Western diplomat was quoted as saying.
Kommersant also quoted a Russian diplomat as saying that the US-Afghan transit deal would involve shipment of military supplies by rail.

"We are ready not just to permit passage of cargos, but to guarantee the security of their transport," said the Russian diplomat, who according to Kommersant was involved in preparing the agreement.

"For this, the beginning of overland transit of military goods is planned, which Russian Railways will handle," the diplomat said, referring to Russia's state-owned railroad monopoly.

"Transit is very big money. Russian Railways has already applied for a US grant to widen the narrow passage on the Uzbek-Afghan border near Termez," he was quoted as saying.

The diplomat said the cost of each container's transport would be more than 3,000 euros (4,230 dollars) and added: "The discussion is about hundreds of containers monthly. Go add it up. But remember this is just overland transit."
arunsrinivasan
BRFite
Posts: 353
Joined: 16 May 2009 15:24

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by arunsrinivasan »

I think this is great news, if US & Russia build better relations, it will reduce TSP's leverage, hopefully stop from Russia from getting too close to China. Do any of the gurus have any insight on this?
RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16006
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by RajeshA »

arunsrinivasan wrote:
I think this is great news, if US & Russia build better relations, it will reduce TSP's leverage, hopefully stop from Russia from getting too close to China.
Ekjaktlee!
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60273
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

arunsrinivasan wrote:
I think this is great news, if US & Russia build better relations, it will reduce TSP's leverage, hopefully stop from Russia from getting too close to China.
Ekjaktlee


Satya, Bingo! Now lets see if the rest plays out.
krithivas
BRFite
Posts: 783
Joined: 20 Oct 2002 11:31
Location: Offline

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by krithivas »

Though a regime change in Iran would have been far more preferrable.

R. Krithivas

US, Russia may sign deal boosting Afghan transit: Report: AFP
[/quote]I think this is great news, if US & Russia build better relations, it will reduce TSP's leverage, hopefully stop from Russia from getting too close to China.[/quote]Ekjaktlee![/quote]
RajeshA
BRF Oldie
Posts: 16006
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 19:30

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by RajeshA »

krithivas wrote:Though a regime change in Iran would have been far more preferrable.

R. Krithivas
arunsrinivasan wrote:I think this is great news, if US & Russia build better relations, it will reduce TSP's leverage, hopefully stop from Russia from getting too close to China.Ekjaktlee!
Not for the sake of transit. Iran in its current constellation leaves the transit route with permissions exclusively for India. US/NATO/ISAF do not get to share it. On the one hand, India can boast of a secure route into Central Asia, while on the other hand Iran would want this route to get strategic value through active use, and would want India to keep using it.

Secondly this allows the USA to rethink its relationship with Russia. Any US presence in Central Asia, which occurs without Russian approval usually forces the Russians into a defensive mode, because of which they run into the eager arms of PRC. Secondly any US dependence on Russia also precludes too much US support to countries like Georgia, Ukraine, etc viz-a-viz Russia. Russia does not like NATO encroachment into its near abroad. Any encroachment pressure again forces the Russians to run to PRC to strengthen SCO as a counterweight to NATO. Caucasus and Central Asia remain Russia's soft belly, and Russia is wary of US intentions there. All of this G2 Talk would also put off Russia against bolstering China's prestige too much at the international level. So NATO dependence on Russia is a very good thing in the large scheme of things.

First and foremost, NATO-Russia cooperation on transit addresses West's over-dependence on Pakistan as a transit route.

USA is also very eager to see a stabilization of Afghanistan, so that it can take much of its troops home. Earlier the USA hoped for Pakistan's cooperation to curtail the activities of Afghan Taliban. As USA saw, that no such cooperation was forthcoming and that Pakistan was playing a double-game, it came up with the next-best strategy to relieve pressure from US troops in Afghanistan. Push the Taliban fighters to a different war theater, where the US troops are not the first in the line of fire. For that reason, the recent fighting between Pakistani troops and Taliban is a major development. The recent years of Taliban expansion into Pakistan has given the impression first and foremost to the Taliban and its Islamist allies like Al Qaida, as well as to Pakjabi Jihadists, LeJ, JeM etc that Pakistan is indeed a low hanging fruit, and can be picked. It is worth trying. As such many of the Taliban could be diverted into Pakistan itself, or encourage the Pakistan Taliban to do their hunting at home, rather than in Afghanistan.

Now the USA or the world, cannot allow those of Taliban ilk to take over Pakistan completely. India too would not like that. For a reason of factors, mostly financial, the US has been able to persuade Pakistan to go to war with their former allies and offspring, the Taliban. Pakistani Army's usefulness to USA and credibility was also on the line. More importantly the security of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal was on the line. Any dithering in pushing back the Taliban could have meant that the US would have moved in to secure this arsenal. All those rumors of India-US cooperation in recovering Pakistan's nukes proved to be a successful psy-ops, and made the Generals jittery.

The war with Pakistan gives the Taliban another reason to shift its fighting power to Pakistan and decrease the pressure on America in Afghanistan. Revenge against an apostate and whore Army of Pakistan becomes a strong motivation even for the Afghan Taliban to come and fight in Pakistan, relieving even more pressure in Afghanistan.

The shift of policy by Hafiz Gul Bahadur and Maulvi Nazir are important developments in this regard. The more fighting that takes place between Pakistani troops and these two gentlemen in Waziristan, the deeper will be the gulf and the longer will this war continue, in the longer term formalizing an irreconcilable split between a mostly Pakjabi Army and the Pushtun Islamists. Any lull in the fighting only allows Bailtullah Mehsud to regroup and consolidate his position, which the Pakistani Army also cannot allow. So the fighting has to go on. Besides USA is holding a close watch on whether Pakistan does proceed to shut down the Taliban, which had been giving USA a hard time in Afghanistan also. Big money is on the line for many a Pakistani General.

2.5 million IDPs build up another possible pressure point for Pakistan. Many new Taliban recruits will find their into Taliban ranks from these IDP camps, bolstering Taliban numbers.

Following factors are important to shift the Taliban insurgency southwards, namely:
o A perception of low hanging fruit
o Revenge for killing of Taliban
o A loss of Islamic credentials of the Pakistani Army through its whoring for the US
o continuing military operations and fighting in FATA, Swat, etc.
o Wide-spread disenchantment with the Pakistani Army for causing wide-spread 'collateral' damage, aka IDPs.
o Steady supply of weapons to the Pakiban, from weapon-producing SMEs in Pushtun lands, Wah-thefts, earlier Afghan wars, open world markets, through Karachi, etc.
o Steady flow of cash to the Taliban, from the Gulf, drugs, extortion, bank robberies, illegal mining, timber, etc.

On the whole both NATO-Russia transit accord and the fighting in Pakistan will relieve USA of its over-dependence on Pakistan. Right now we are seeing a peak in the US-Pak dependence graph with a subsequent fall. There is a bit of optimism invested in this outlook, but not overly so.
shaardula
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2591
Joined: 17 Apr 2006 20:02

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by shaardula »

On Thursday, almost 4,000 United States Marines poured into small villages in the southern Afghan province of Helmand where the Taliban has gained a foothold.

The main goal of the operation, dubbed “Strike of the Sword,” is to launch a massive assault while simultaneously gaining back the trust of the people.

Marvin Weinbaum, a scholar at the Middle East Institute and former State Department analyst on Afghanistan and Pakistan, joins Martin Savidge to discuss the importance of Helmand and the new operation.
http://worldfocus.org/blog/2009/07/02/u ... stan/6110/
Gerard
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8012
Joined: 15 Nov 1999 12:31

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Gerard »

Gerard
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8012
Joined: 15 Nov 1999 12:31

Re: Afghanistan News & Discussion

Post by Gerard »

Post Reply