India-Australia News and Discussion

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 06 Jun 2009 07:04

Folks in Oz, how safe is the Parkville campus area? If Parkville is not safe, what are the safe neighborhoods around it? TIA.

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 06 Jun 2009 07:08

SwamyG wrote:mmasand: Thanks for the info. What is the total student population - Australians and Foreigners? And how are the fees paid by the Indians? Do they get it from India, or do they work in Australia to pay for the fees? TIA.

As mmasand pointed out, if fees are around AUD 6000-7000 many students try to pay as much possible. First semester fees are bound to come from India through loan or savings due to almost no job in first semester. I believe in massa good number of students gets job in university campus or so...but many students opt for course like Networking at Uni Tech Sydney (UTS) which costs around AUD 12000 per sem again. There is atleast 5-10% hike in fees every semester by every university if not mistaken.

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 06 Jun 2009 09:51

Lax approach leaves streets off limits

Andrew McIntosh, the Opposition police spokesman in Victoria - who raised his concerns about the attacks ahead of the recent furore - said yesterday: "Under no circumstances should a certain level of crime be considered acceptable in any part of the state."

He said that he was "appalled to hear a senior police officer saying that people who live near a hotel have to accept an amount of bad behaviour".

"This, to me, means just surrendering the streets to the bad guys. We may as well put up signs saying these are no-go areas, that we enter at our peril. We should not tolerate any level of violence."

He says the violence against Indian students and the broader community requires a major campaign on the lines of the campaigns run successfully against bad behaviour on the roads, including drink driving and road deaths. "And we need to put more police on the beat. It's just a bloody disgrace," he says.

He says he attended last Sunday's rally in Melbourne by Indian students to listen to their concerns.

"To dismiss them as soft targets because they travel alone on public transport late at night is simply not acceptable," he says.

"They need to be protected, like all of us, by our Government. It's all part of the same problem."

...

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 06 Jun 2009 10:57

Thanks again, so for completing their education what percentage of their expenses have to come from India? I am trying to gauge the money flow. IIRC in USA the education "industry" is about $12billion. {can't be sure of this number, but definitely it is in this ball park}

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 06 Jun 2009 11:21

Would say 30-40% fees comes from desh IMO. No statistics on hand but my observation. Again, this applies to students pursuing 2 year masters.

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 06 Jun 2009 19:13

Stan_Savljevic wrote:Folks in Oz, how safe is the Parkville campus area? If Parkville is not safe, what are the safe neighborhoods around it? TIA.

Im guessing you are referring to MelbUni or VCA...Parkville is damn safe...its in the CBD and the campus has a good security service and generally a lot of cops around since its the CBD,Monday nites not a good idea to hang around near Lygon St as its pub nite @ Pugs for the residential college kids who lose it with the happy hours.Trams available all the time there...

SwamyG no definite statistics,although little research has been done of all international students.This report http://www.cshe.unimelb.edu.au/people/s ... eb2008.pdf studies working patterns of international students in Oz and their responses which have not been indexed for privacy reasons.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 07 Jun 2009 00:20

Deleted. This is the India-Australia thread.

SK Mody · Post by **SK Mody** » 07 Jun 2009 01:55

The article below highlights the attacks in Australia. A good time to ask this question.
India Asks Why Its Students Must Study Abroad

The number is students leaving for studies abroad after high school is increasing - due to insufficient institutions of high quality. In my opinion, those parents who are getting wealthier dont have much faith in most of the institutions of higher ed in India. The consequence is that the economic divide will get compounded by an educational divide - a serious issue.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 07 Jun 2009 02:39

Thanks a lot, masandji.

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 07 Jun 2009 17:02

Indian students protest against racist attacks in Sydney

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 07 Jun 2009 19:41

This point is more more for the US thread but the events one sees in Australia is in some ways reminiscent of the struggles that the blacks in US went through in 50's and 60's. THey were subject to attacks, verbal assaults, indifference (and even violence) from police. Sound familiar..? They earned their equality the hard way (and the desis here have benefited from their fights/struggles).

What is really amazing is the Australian police essentially justifying these attacks by saying 'Indians are soft targets' and 'should not be carrying ipods' etc. Saying something like that is an automatic admission that the police can not or is not interested in doing anything about this. Either explanation is a scandal and a clear comment on why they dont think Indians are worth protecting. It is one thing for uncivilized, jobless teens to attack people, it is quite another thing for a governing/enforcing institution (=police) to take a laid back approach. The one silver lining I see is that the educated, middle class Indians are getting organized for political protests.

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 07 Jun 2009 23:41

Gaurav_S wrote:Indian students protest against racist attacks in Sydney

Apparently it pulled about 400 people...not bad.Had it not been for Yadu Singh's statement,i bet more would have turned up!A close comrade and organiser told me that Riot squads were outnumbering the protesters themselves...what did they think we would go and blow up the Pakistani consulate...

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 08 Jun 2009 01:41

Ruchir wrote this article in the Sydney Morning Herald...perfect view...

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/an-opport ... =text-only

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 08 Jun 2009 02:04

Hmmm - long time ago I made this journey through sydney. Probably was the first wave of Indian students

That was the time of the recession 'we had to have'. Bad economic times mean foreigners get targetted - used to be Vietnamese in the 70s.

I remember being called 'curry eater" by of all people - aborigines at Redfern who set their dogs on us sending us running to Redfern station. We learned to avoid parts of redfern, newton.

Returning night I would rather take a cab (yeah probably cost all my wages ) from certain areas that were known to be seedy with drunk\bawdy chars and filled with trash.

another vulnerable place used to be the tunnel linking rear end of the platforms at Central station. Rather take the roundabout route on the road thenwalk through that tunnel.

Reality is Aussies are not any more or less racist - its just concentrated in the big cities and bad economic times bring out the worst characters.

Sure the times have changed.

Hopefully the Aussies are jolted enough to start taking things more seriously

Mathew G · Post by **Mathew G** » 08 Jun 2009 08:06

Indian students car torched in latest Australian attack

It's like they want to force till we submit to numbness.

Just curious, has the Vic police caught anybody so far?? I mean there's been so many offences...what if this were a group of muslims (albeit a minority) targetting white aussies? Would Vic police have the same excuses to tackle this problem? Do they see this as a problem even?

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 08 Jun 2009 11:01

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Fres ... 630194.cms

MELBOURNE: A 23-year-old Indian student was beaten up for the second time in a fortnight by a group of youths in Melbourne, the 11th person from the
community to be assaulted within a space of a month in Australia. ( Watch )

Kamal Jit was found unconscious and bleeding by another Indian student in western suburb of the city on Sunday.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 08 Jun 2009 11:05

God damn it

....... What is it with these aussies??
I have lived in deep south in massa for a while now and I have never ever heard of such stories taking place.
It is disgusting

AmitR · Post by **AmitR** » 08 Jun 2009 11:19

pgbhat wrote:God damn it ....... What is it with these aussies??
I have lived in deep south in massa for a while now and I have never ever heard of such stories taking place.
It is disgusting

Why are we getting so emotional?
When anyone in the world can come to our country kill hundreds of people and then sit back smugly while our government twiddles it's thumb then what's so disturbing here. I am sure there are a lot of Chinese students also in Australia, wonder why they are never targeted. Because China will have Aussies by their balls and twist them around.

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 08 Jun 2009 11:58

andy B wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Fres ... 630194.cms

Oh...this news never showed up in Oz media. This possibly indicates there are several such attacks on Indians still going unreported to police. However, torching cars is common practise adopted by thugs in Oz to remove evidences after stealing.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 08 Jun 2009 13:59

Why must Indian students study abroad?There is such corruption in getting seats on merit in Indian Univs.,exposed by a TV channel regarding medical seats in Madras,40+ lakhs for a seat as a "donation" that Indian students find it better to go abroad,where in most cases the quality of education is better.How many IITs and IIMs medical colleges are ther for a population of 1 billon+?The warped educational system in the country ,where trhe whims and fancies of some state govts. result in educational institutions beign commecial ventures not centres of academic excellence .Moreover,technologically,one must be frank that the west has the best .How many Nobel Prize winners have Indian univs. won?

To my interaction with Indian students who have studied in Oz,they've all had a very happy experience and are surprised at the recent trend.The best way forward is for a close interaction between the Indian and Oz govts and local auuthorities working with Indian dilpomats,to bring in better security for Indian students and a pro-active anti-racial policing into force in affected areas of cities where these attacks have been happening.I don;t know how many have seen the Russel Crowe film "Romper Stomper",a 1992 classic about a neo-Nazi skinhead gang in Melbourne and their exploits.IT gives an insight into the kind of louts who are responsible for these attacks,the drug addicts and petty criminals at the bottom of the heap.Here's a taste of what the film's about.Unmissable!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romper_Stomper

Romper Stomper is a 1992 Australian film written and directed by Geoffrey Wright starring Russell Crowe, Daniel Pollock, Jacqueline McKenzie and Tony Lee. The film follows the exploits and downfall of a neo-Nazi skinhead group in blue-collar suburban Melbourne.

The soundtrack released on Picture This Records includes orchestral music, as well as dark, energetic music similar to the Oi! genre (recorded by studio musicians). The film was nominated for 9 Australian Film Institute Awards, winning Best Achievement in Sound, Best Actor in a Lead Role and Best Original Music Score.

Daniel Pollock, who plays Davey in the film, committed suicide before the film's release by jumping in front of a train. He had been struggling with a serious heroin addiction, as well as the breakup of his romantic relationship with co-star Jacqueline McKenzie[citation needed]. Crowe wrote a song about the suicide called "The Night That Davey Hit the Train" which he later performed with his band 30 Odd Foot of Grunts

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 08 Jun 2009 14:34

^^^. Fully agree with Phillip. Recently there was news that one seat for Radiodaignosis MD is being sold for Rs 2 crore..! Unless we clean the mess and corruption in our system students will keep flocking to vides and there is nothing wrong. Atleast the degree you get is intl accepted (unlike most of Indian degrees). In a country where MCI chief himself is hand in glove with the racket involved in selling medical UG/PG seats this trend will continue.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 08 Jun 2009 14:44

Guys, what has Indian education system got to do with the way in which racist oiseaules have gotten away in Oz? We have our mess, not just in education, but elsewhere too, we need to handle it, but there is no need for ululation and finding excuses in oiseaule-ry.

The Victoria police have not done their job, the govt of Oz has been sitting on its derriere and trying to get its hands-off. If these very same oiseaules had invested every cent of the money they had profited by reaming tales of Indian racism last January, most of these Indian kids would be safe. Howmuchever you may have biases towards Md. Hanif, these very same oiseaules mis-treated him without adequate proof and firmly tucked their tails in glory when the bluff was called. The australians do not hold a morally superior position by any means on any count, and the name of the game is to call their bluff, by every means legally possible.

Take your whines to the concerned threads and stop scoring own-goals of the bullshit variety.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 08 Jun 2009 14:49

Stan_Savljevic wrote:Take your whines to the concerned threads and stop scoring own-goals of the bullshit variety.

And where did I say that Oz police has done the job? I think there is mix up of 2 issues here. But why not take a look into why students are being forced to go out..?

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 08 Jun 2009 15:32

IndraD wrote: And where did I say that Oz police has done the job? I think there is mix up of 2 issues here. But why not take a look into why students are being forced to go out..?

Many points here....

It is not a recommended practice that all students stay in the home country, even if enough capabilities exist to educate them. That will only result in inbreeding of ideas. I am talking about higher ed (post-grad), not the garden-variety stuff.

The fact is our education system is a mess, but the fact that people go to Oz, NZ etc. has little or no correlation to the state of our education system. People will go as long as they can afford, and crave for a western quality of life. At the end of the day, it is more perception than much else. If I told you of affordable engg. seats in Kattangulathur, TN, would you go there or try places such as Oz, NZ, Spore etc.? Education is just a means to an end, not the end in itself. The end is PR status and quality of life in proportion to expectations or family demands. If someone wants to climb the ladder efficiently, it is a lot easier to climb it by being in India to start with and then get out to places in US once the gradient becomes manageable. OTOH, if you want a quick bang for the buck, you will take short-cuts. {An over-generalization of course, but holds for many cases. Exceptions always exist....}

I would venture a guess that most folks who go out of India to destinations such as Oz, NZ etc. are most certainly not doing it because they find great educational institutions in Oz, NZ etc., but because they cannot obtain visas to UK, USA etc. If they had a choice, they would choose US first and foremost.

We do hear about deaths of students in US, but the Oz stuff takes the cake. It is not even random violence, and the cover-up is not even covert, but guilt-ridden. The assies are covering up their ass in Indian blood.... There is a two-point agenda to hit them in the short-term: 1) Hit the bank, 2) Induce more guilt. In the long-term, 1) Fix the idiots who sell the universities in India, 2) Entrench more Indians in positions that matter in Oz.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 08 Jun 2009 16:07

A reason not often mentioned/acknowledged is that whether in studies or jobs, it is much easier to 'compete' abroad, because your skills are far above average. Here you are just one more face in crowd. This is often because established natives are often laid back and take things for granted, not a racial/genetic thing though such linkages have been suggested.

Of course, goras also exploit this advantage. Instead of being just another gora having trouble getting dates, you go to Asia, you become instant Casanova..

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 08 Jun 2009 18:26

Fresh attacks throughout Melbourne including Prahran (posh suburb),not Indians,but Caucasians.Knofe culture is really getting bad day by day.Its all changed in a matter of 18 months.

On the other hand the brave man John McCarthy High Commissioner to India will be replaced by Peter Varghese,the guy who ran the intelligence and spy program in Oz come August.He is a second generation Indian origin citizen.

Burning cars,quite common for druggies,kid didn't have basic fire and theft insurance protection.He spent $2.5k on this 15 yr old model.The least I would suggest is get a basic insurance from fire and theft which costs only like $300 a year.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 08 Jun 2009 19:40

The least I would suggest is get a basic insurance from fire and theft which costs only like $300 a year.

You mean, which used to cost $300/yr. If car burnings are indeed as rampant as you say, expect insurance premia to proactively ramp up as well. And especially if you are part of a high risk group (e.g. yindian onlee).

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 08 Jun 2009 20:15

vsudhir wrote:
The least I would suggest is get a basic insurance from fire and theft which costs only like $300 a year.
You mean, which used to cost $300/yr. If car burnings are indeed as rampant as you say, expect insurance premium to proactively ramp up as well. And especially if you are part of a high risk group (e.g. yindian onlee).

There is no doubt that the car is ought to be a model of 1995 or before bcoz the price paid is $2.5k.The value of insurance for fire and theft is indeed quite low bcoz most ppl opt for the premium plan.The value ($300) is determined by an index prepared by the RACV and insurance premiums cannot be hiked on the basis of a persons ethnicity or area where they live.However a past record of driving offences or damage does ascertain a raise in premiums.Many cars do get stolen in the western suburbs and still lack insurance,after a while they are found smashed up in some ghetto.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 08 Jun 2009 20:25

Just wondering if our national media got "instructions" from somebody to kick this issue? Is somebody trying to make this as a showcase - that India stands up for Indians? Like Amit pointed out, we don't do much when it comes to attackers who come into our country. But here we are beating our chest and pumping our fist? A Drama? Just a another chain of thoughts to add to the scenario.

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 08 Jun 2009 20:46

SwamyG wrote:Just wondering if our national media got "instructions" from somebody to kick this issue? Is somebody trying to make this as a showcase - that India stands up for Indians? Like Amit pointed out, we don't do much when it comes to attackers who come into our country. But here we are beating our chest and pumping our fist? A Drama? Just a another chain of thoughts to add to the scenario.

Uhm Uhm....yes very much indeed...attacks on indian students have been reported in the past in the Indian media which were picked up from leading Australian dailies such as 'the age' and 'the australian'.The hindu and the TOI have reported the last incident in jan 09.

The media liaison at the FISA has contact with the media bcoz he was the secretary of the indian broadcasters association when in india and more so i wouldn't hesitate to say that the indian envoys had a lot to do with instigating indian media attention behind the scenes due to their concerns falling on deaf ears at MEA.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 08 Jun 2009 21:50

Australians are Australians....we see them on the cricketing field. So either these incidents were like the proverbial last straw on the camel's back or "somebody" is using this for their advantage.

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 08 Jun 2009 22:47

Excerpt from the SMH....again calling for looking at the wider problem..'THE INDUSTRY'

Duty of care for students

* June 9, 2009

THE adequacy of Australia's response to violence against foreign students continues to be in question with two more attacks occurring in Melbourne in recent days against Indian students, one a brutal bashing and another the burning of a car. At the same time, the angry protest in Sydney at the weekend by foreign students, mostly from India, shows a wider range of grievances needing to be addressed.

Whether or not the attacks are racist, or show Australia to be infested with racism, can be endlessly debated. The Indian community itself is divided on the question. Many attacks seem aimed simply at lifting cash and valuables from targets seen as unlikely to offer much resistance, making them criminal and cowardly, but not really racist. Others appear to be gratuitous bashings for being foreign and different, in which case they are racist. Whatever the case, every effort should be made to prevent them, and police in Sydney and Melbourne probably need to show more convincingly that they are trying to do so.

The Indian students, more articulate in English and familiar with their rights in our kind of legal system, are raising problems affecting the whole of our foreign student community. In recent months the Herald has been reporting widespread instances of exploitation: up to a dozen students paying $150 a week each for space in a three-bedroom flat; some paying rental deposits before arrival to phantom online "real estate agents"; paying substantial fees to recruiters for non-existent jobs; others working long hours at below-award rates to get around the visa limitation of 20 hours a week paid work; bucket-shop private colleges enrolling far more students than they can offer proper education.

The NSW Education Minister, Verity Firth, assures us that her department's "task force" will address all problems when it reports later this year. Canberra has also formed its own "task force" to handle the crisis with India, though its solution appears to be a publicity blitz in India to "dispel negative perceptions" rather than changing anything here.

The heart of the problem is betrayed in Ms Firth's constant references to the "international education industry" and local jobs it creates. No wonder the students feel like cash cows, especially when Ms Firth's government denies them normal student transport concessions. At the same time, Canberra has compromised the system by opening a pathway from study to permanent residency, turning education into a migration business. The system needs more rigorous enforcement of educational standards, and an active Protector of Students office wielding police and consumer-protection powers.

munna · Post by **munna** » 08 Jun 2009 22:58

Send young MPs to Asutralia for reassuring the student populace there. Good idea in my opinion.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 08 Jun 2009 23:00

Australia names Indian-origin man as next envoy to India

In an apparent move to placate India, Australia on Monday named Indian-origin Peter Varghese as the next envoy to India. Varghese is considered the country's top spy as the head of the Office of National Assessments (ONA).

...

So it is sending a top spy as an ambassador?

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 08 Jun 2009 23:05

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/2009/ ... d-them.htm

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 08 Jun 2009 23:41

munna wrote:Send young MPs to Asutralia for reassuring the student populace there. Good idea in my opinion.

Waste of taxpayers money flying in Congress MP's.What are they going to do? Maybe V Ravi should take a break from serving his NRK's and take a trip down to the ghettos where these students live and work for 48 hours/wk despite flouting the visa rule and risk being detained and deported.Maybe he should get his sorry ass here and bring an additional 2 envoys to look after the student community alone and set up a community centre with facilities for distressed students.Also they should be checking on the standards of education within these institutions and blacklist them and prevent students from going to such rogue and filthy providers.

The Chinese students have not faced attacks bcoz their govt has given them good enough incentives to educate themselves,since the revolution in China most middle class families have been able to fund their kids going abroad and even provide them with additional funds such as buying a car or living in a relatively safer area.It doesn't hurt for institutions to provide transport to various locations like Monash used to run the inter campus bus services from 2003 onwards.

Surprise Surprise ,I have not heard Bob Birrell speak up...isn't he against migration! Maybe his wages at Monash are being paid by the internationals...

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 09 Jun 2009 00:18

Man who abused Indians stabbed in first retaliatory attack

AoA onlee

Let's see how aussies react to this !!!!

Karkala Joishy · Post by **Karkala Joishy** » 09 Jun 2009 01:11

The only way to deal with a bully is to hit back. I don't like violence like this, but thats how Muslims get their way in gora countries. By kicking butt.

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 09 Jun 2009 02:51

Karkala Joishy wrote:The only way to deal with a bully is to hit back. I don't like violence like this, but thats how Muslims get their way in gora countries. By kicking butt.

Not going to solve the problem,they will come back in bigger numbers and actually start a gang war making it impossible for people like me to travel on trains or buses and trams at night,it will perpetrate more hatred which is limited to a bunch of lunatics.People from the country who are lesser sensitive to cultural differences will jump on the bandwagon and stereotype Indians and students will be the prime target.

Not everyone has the privilege to have Indian hordes waiting at the railway st like at St.Albans,inturn we will be chased in dangerous neighborhoods of footscray and sunshine which was prevalent like in the 90's by drug cartels.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 09 Jun 2009 03:13

Indian-origin Aussie and intelligence chief is new envoy to Delhi

Australia’s intelligence chief Peter Varghese, born in Kenya in 1956 to ethnic Indian parents who later emigrated Down Under, has been named as the country’s next High Commissioner in New Delhi.