Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby vsudhir » 17 Jun 2009 23:08

I 400% suspect a bangladesi hand in these mutiny rumors....payback for the ISI-razakar sponsored BDR mutiny-cum-massa-kar onlee... :eek:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby svinayak » 17 Jun 2009 23:31

CRamS wrote: Furthermore, Hindu assertion, Indian nationalism are equated with TSP terrorism. So the end result, US-scripted propaganda is this: MMS is building bridges despite 'extremists from both sides'; and the Indian middle class is subsumed with this caricature of reality. And most of them are neophytes when it comes to TSP perfidy; all they have heard is the drum beat of some Hindu thugs going and bashing up women in pubs etc,


I heard somebody telling me about this whisper campaign to equate Indian who support one party and nationalism to be branded as terrorist and equated to TSP terrorism.
Have you heard about this whisper/telling campaign

This seems to be well planned right from the branding of "Taliban" for Hindutva groups in KA and other media outlets.
They are targetting the new generation who are the DCH group

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby Prem » 18 Jun 2009 00:22

The Taliban and Pashtun Nationalism
Michael J. Totten

Afghanistan and Pakistan, like Lebanon and Iraq, are hypercomplicated Balkanized patchwork states. They’re inherently unstable. Perhaps they always will be if they don’t subdivide into coherent nation-states as most of Yugoslavia did. It’s hard to predict events anywhere in the world, and it’s even harder in countries like these. One thing, though, is all but certain. Now that the Taliban have consolidated power in Pashtunistan, whether they seize control of the capital and the rest of the country or not, they will face stiffer resistance from here on out than they have

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs ... 64212?cp=2

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby NRao » 18 Jun 2009 00:51

EU gives $100m in aid to Pakistan

"I welcome President Zardari's commitment to reinforce the democratic institutions, reform the economy and defeat extremism and terrorism, which pose a threat not just to his country, but to its neighbours and to the rest of the world," European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso said.


Tall order I would think. Apparently not from the EU PoV.

May be India should ask Pakis to develop Kaveri too.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby RamaY » 18 Jun 2009 01:02

^^^

NRao garu,

Observe the pattern. USA announces additional Aid, EU announces new Aid. Just few months ago TSP was begging everyone one for some change without success. What changed?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby Samay » 18 Jun 2009 01:21

Now this is real experience

While I was about to reply the quoted post with joy I was confused and thought that I have seen a wrong thing ,

this can't be there, how it could be ?, from dhimmies ?, no way,... .
I searched google, toi,found no trace , then decided why not to go to the original source.? .

I scrolled to previous page, and found that I was wrong in my hurried view , I misread the blue line ,!

I mistakenly read it as "India puts Pakistan into 'terror list'", there was a sigh that I was prevented posting a wrong thing,
But then My Eyes sparkled ...!
What if this was true ...! 8)

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby Prem Kumar » 18 Jun 2009 01:48

RamaY wrote:^^^

NRao garu,

Observe the pattern. USA announces additional Aid, EU announces new Aid. Just few months ago TSP was begging everyone one for some change without success. What changed?



If I may respond. I dont know if your question was rhetorical. If not, the trigger definitely seems to be the PA action against Taliban. One gets the feeling that Obama wants to exit Af-Pak after declaring his "mission accomplished" moment. Since the kill/capture of OBL seems extremely unlikely, the war in Waziristan might just be it. For sure, he wouldnt want a broken up Pakistan because the U.S influence can only worsen if that happens. So, his foreign policy "victories" that he will claim will be:

a) Bringing the Taliban to its knees & establishment of some brokered settlement in Af-Pak
b) India and Pakistan resume peace dialogue
c) Troop withdrawal from Af-Pak because mission is accomplished. A.k.a enough blood has been spilled and terror "contained" within Af-Pak

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby John Snow » 18 Jun 2009 01:51

Shiv ji Sorry I did not see your post earlier,

I was one of those elite who said India should help TSP build a ICBM missile, this was way way back in the times of Parliament attack. It is the duty of every Indian to help Taliban at this critical time for the sake of Pure Islam. Even Obama has certified Islam is religion of peace, who is more pure in putting pure Islamic laws, Islamic religioous way of life into practice? You name it Taliban has it. As a matter of fact the motto of TSP Army is the same as Taliban, The Army wears Shirts and Pants with some brass buttons here and there, where as Taliban is more humble no titles but just ranks, yes in Shallwar and Kamie ease.

Yes Taliban is good, it is the Son of Super power , which defeated the other super power and is now asking for small recognition to live in peace. India already benefited from dealing with Taliban thanks to their humanitarian understanding the released all the passengers from IA 814 after reading the Indian tourism slogan "Welcome a Stranger Send back a Friend"

A picture is worth thousand words

Image

Yes Taliban desrve to live rule a strong and stable true Islamic Pakistan, once in power they will be as peaceful as any super power interested in the Subcontinental affairs.



REMEMBER FOLKS THE HIJACKERS WERE HELPED BY TSP ISI AND ARE CITIZENS OF PAKISTAN, where as Taliban were pushtoons who were in Khandhar, they did not blow up the plane, they even sent back the plane rather than send them by Ariana in which everybody squats on the floor in a Soviet AN 144.

Nevet Trust Pakistani but Trust a Talibani.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby RamaY » 18 Jun 2009 02:16

^^^
John Snow garu...

I mooted similar thoughts few pages ago in this thread. That could be the Indian AF-Pak policy for a change.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby James B » 18 Jun 2009 02:56

Six Pakistanis arrested in Saudi for drugs smuggling

The fate of six Pakistanis, arrested on arrival in Saudi Arabia for concealing narcotics in their slippers hangs in balance. The Pakistani mission in the Kingdom has been trying to gain consular access to them, and expects to receive it soon.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby NRao » 18 Jun 2009 03:13

RamaY wrote:^^^

NRao garu,

Observe the pattern. USA announces additional Aid, EU announces new Aid. Just few months ago TSP was begging everyone one for some change without success. What changed?


The ides of March have come, but not gone.

Where is the "aid" from Saudi Arabia, other gulf countries that HH HolB visited for this specific reason and from China?

More in "indian interest" thread.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby vsudhir » 18 Jun 2009 03:25

O yes, the aid will continue flowing to prop up TSP by any and all means necessary, so far.

Like someone mentioned the other day, our best hope lies in the fact that the largesse recipients are Pakistani. Odds that they'll find a way to screw up despite so many lifelines cannot be ruled out.

Besides, world is changing again, as we speak. The khanate stares at deflation in the face. A classic debt-deflation spiral in the Irving Fischer mold, perhaps. The small change billions they've been throwing boor TSP will progressively become larger amounts in real terms onlee.

Yup, India, as a classic status quoist power, needs only to stand her ground for the next few yrs. Even that will take huge effort, IMVHO.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby SSridhar » 18 Jun 2009 05:12

Obama's bulldozer runs the risk of turning the Taliban into Pakistan's Khmer Rouge

the U.S. will eventually have to trust Pakistan to control its proxies in Afghanistan — a crucial component of any “regional” solution. The U.S. can reasonably expect responsible behaviour from Islamabad only if - as with Iran - it treats Pakistan as a power with inalienable interests, rather than as a nuclear-armed “rogue” state. Mr. Obama could then expedite the inevitable task of drawing up a timetable for the withdrawal of combat troops from Afghanistan.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby CRamS » 18 Jun 2009 05:46

SSridhar wrote:Obama's bulldozer runs the risk of turning the Taliban into Pakistan's Khmer Rouge

the U.S. will eventually have to trust Pakistan to control its proxies in Afghanistan — a crucial component of any “regional” solution. The U.S. can reasonably expect responsible behaviour from Islamabad only if - as with Iran - it treats Pakistan as a power with inalienable interests, rather than as a nuclear-armed “rogue” state. Mr. Obama could then expedite the inevitable task of drawing up a timetable for the withdrawal of combat troops from Afghanistan.


WoW, Pankaj Mishra will exceed even the wildest fantasies of TSP ISI bosses. A pompous piece of pro-TSP, anti-India crap.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby Prem » 18 Jun 2009 06:09

CRamS wrote:
SSridhar wrote:Obama's bulldozer runs the risk of turning the Taliban into Pakistan's Khmer Rouge

[WoW, Pankaj Mishra will exceed even the wildest fantasies of TSP ISI bosses. A pompous piece of pro-TSP, anti-India crap.


He is Darling of our own PS and Islamist crowd who pay for his Dal Roti and Daru . Its not Paki Paki only but Indian Paki also on whose behalf he write.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby John Snow » 18 Jun 2009 06:58

Folks forgive me for asking this

How many times did Taliban commit terror directly or indirectly on India.

Is Taliban India's enemy?

If Taliban is ISI and ISI controls all other terror outfits Then we should not be talking to TSP right, let them fix their house and then talks can start?

TIA

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby SSridhar » 18 Jun 2009 07:46

John Snow garu, that's exactly the point. If at all, Taliban can be considered an Indian enemy only because it allowed 'strategic depth' for Pakistan. By this yardstick of indirect help, many nations can be Indian enemies and the US, by its overt and covert sponsorship for over six decades of Pakistani roguishness directed against us, would lead the pack miles ahead if a list were to be drawn up. The so-called Pakistani war against the Taliban is being portrayed as Pakistan's sincerity in tackling terrorism. Even if such a war was not a fake, it still does India no good. The US, looking for an early exit from Afghanistan, is spinning a story to that effect and many Indians are falling for that.

The Indian enemy is the Punjabi terrorist. No doubt that the Punjabi terrorists, by their early association with the Afghan mujahideen and subsequent usage of terrorist training facilities built up in FATA & Afghanistan territories for their Kashmir jihad, have forged a close relationship with the Taliban. But, that doesn't make the Taliban our immediate threat or concern. The Punjabi terrorists are backed to the hilt by the Pakistani Army and Pakistani politicians of all hues.There is no change in them as far as the policy of how to deal with India. Such a change will not come about through a wave of any magic wand. It has to come about through a recognition that such a goal is most painful for Pakistan and is simply unattainable and every passing day makes it that much more difficult.

Sometime back, when the Pakistani economy was in a precarious state and its friends were not forthcoming with any cash, articles and editorials began appearing in Pakistani media on how Pakistan should mend fences with India and how past policies were wrong. But, with the pouring in of US, Japanese, ADB and IMF aid, and buoyed up by a generous supply of military aid by the US, Pakistani decision makers are not compelled to change their course against India and on the contrary are encouraged to maintain their 1940s' Muslim League policy. Recent articles, op-eds and editorials are incresingly strident as far as their criticism of India goes. Pakistan is also increasing its ambit of conflict by adding 'water' to the list and some Indian analysts are seeing an 'untapped potential' in it. For its part, India has not inflicted anything on Pakistan that is truly painful in the last two decades since terrorism became such a big issue for us. OTOH, Pakistan is ensuring that India will not do it any harm by constantly harping on the imaginary interference of the dozens of Indian consulates in Afghanistan and how Indian influence in Afghanistan is unacceptable to Pakistan.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby anupmisra » 18 Jun 2009 07:54

K'rachi getting bad to worse

People abandon vehicles on road for want of petrol

KARACHI: The people are being leaving their vehicles on road due to the shortage of petrol caused by the electricity breakdown here in Karachi on Thursday, Geo news reported.

People are suffering from abject miseries while many people have left out their vehicles on road due to end of petrol, meanwhile, the ATM network of many banks has also been broken down adding salt to the wounds of people already facing dire hardships due to major power failure in metropolis.


Image

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby anupmisra » 18 Jun 2009 08:01

Pooki view on India Vs. Nepal

A 7-member Nepalese media delegation called on Punjab University Vice-Chancellor Prof Dr Mujahid Kamran at his office on Wednesday.


According to a press release here on Wednesday, the vice-chancellor, speaking on the occasion, said that he had visited Nepal twice in 90s and found the Nepalese very peaceful and tolerant. He said despite being a declared Hindu State there was no religion problems in the country whereas India was a secular state only in name.


:roll:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby anupmisra » 18 Jun 2009 08:06

Eunuchs leader thanks chief justice
Why, you ask?

All Pakistan Eunuchs Association President Bobby has said that they were grateful to Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry for ordering social welfare secretaries of all four provinces to conduct a survey to document the record of eunuchs and carry out their registration.


And, in case you are wondering....

there were around 400,000 to 500,000 eunuchs in Pakistan


And, no, they are not all in the P'astan Army.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby Muppalla » 18 Jun 2009 08:26


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby shiv » 18 Jun 2009 08:29

anupmisra wrote:Pooki view on India Vs. Nepal
According to a press release here on Wednesday, the vice-chancellor, speaking on the occasion, said that he had visited Nepal twice in 90s and found the Nepalese very peaceful and tolerant. He said despite being a declared Hindu State there was no religion problems in the country whereas India was a secular state only in name.




Which could mean that Hindus, or being a Hindu state is not the problem. So what could the problem be in India? :?:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby shiv » 18 Jun 2009 08:35

I may not like the Taliban - but as long as they are killing Pakis, I am willing to tolerate them. Also I want more Taliban to be killed by Pakis so that there is more resentment. Remember that human life (in Pakistan) is at best 30 years. So resentment created today will last a mere 30 years. So killing must occur year in and year out.

If the Taliban are defeated, there is the worry that the problem may end. So the Taliban must have reason to keep fighting. hat better way than to ensure permanent enmity between Pakjbais and Taliban?

The poor Pakistan army is being forced to sit on its eastern border and being prevented by big bad India from doing their patriotic duty killing the Taliban (supported as they are by a Hindu-US-Zionist conspiracy).

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby Prem Kumar » 18 Jun 2009 09:56

This dream scenario of PA and Taliban killing each other will stop once the puppetmassa declares victory & withdraws his troops & drones. Then the PA/ISI will try their best to align the Taliban intolerance with the Pakjabi hatred of India.

Currently the Pakjabis and Taliban are not in conflict with each other & that's a bad thing for us. An ideal arrangement would be a Ménage à trois involving the Pakjabis & Taliban, with the PA in the middle :D

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby kvraghav » 18 Jun 2009 11:19

Goodness,we now have people wanting to tolerate Taliban??Taliban did not interfere with india because they did not have a common border.Elsewhere they were active in SWAT long before US of A entered Afganistan.I dont beleive Taliban are saints.The day they take over Pak,they train their guns on india.Their only aim is to have an islamic emirate and keep on expanding.Why are they killing PA now??Thats because PA attacked them on USA insitence.Else they are all pally and concentrate on expanding their emirate.IF they can expand into SWAT,what will stop them from coming to gujarath or rajasthan??If they were that good,what stopped them from promptly arresting the released terrorist during kandahar and why did ISI choose afghanistan of all the places for the issue??

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby Virupaksha » 18 Jun 2009 11:52

kvraghav wrote:Goodness,we now have people wanting to tolerate Taliban??Taliban did not interfere with india because they did not have a common border.Elsewhere they were active in SWAT long before US of A entered Afganistan.I dont beleive Taliban are saints.The day they take over Pak,they train their guns on india.Their only aim is to have an islamic emirate and keep on expanding.Why are they killing PA now??Thats because PA attacked them on USA insitence.Else they are all pally and concentrate on expanding their emirate.IF they can expand into SWAT,what will stop them from coming to gujarath or rajasthan??If they were that good,what stopped them from promptly arresting the released terrorist during kandahar and why did ISI choose afghanistan of all the places for the issue??

I have only 1 question to you. With respect to India, how are they different from Pakistan army?

The answer to why taliban lies in that answer.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby RajeshA » 18 Jun 2009 12:00

kvraghav wrote:Goodness,we now have people wanting to tolerate Taliban??
Yes for the very good reason that the Pakiban are doing that what the GoI has refused to do, even as a response to the Mumbai carnage - kicking TSPA's butt. That is Indian work, they are doing, even if they have their own reasons.
Taliban did not interfere with india because they did not have a common border.Elsewhere they were active in SWAT long before US of A entered Afganistan.I dont beleive Taliban are saints.
Why would we be looking for saints? The Taliban that attacked Indians in Afghanistan were the Sarkari Taliban controlled/supported by ISI, the Haqqani Group, and they did it at the behest of ISI. Otherwise, there is no Indian blood on the hands of the Taliban. How much the Taliban/Pakiban frak Pakistan, is really for their own passtime, and it need not bother us
The day they take over Pak,they train their guns on india.Their only aim is to have an islamic emirate and keep on expanding.Why are they killing PA now??Thats because PA attacked them on USA insitence.Else they are all pally and concentrate on expanding their emirate.IF they can expand into SWAT,what will stop them from coming to gujarath or rajasthan??
Uhhh...Perhaps because there are no Pushtun camps in Gujarat & Rajasthan, and fish needs water to swim.
If they were that good,what stopped them from promptly arresting the released terrorist during kandahar and why did ISI choose afghanistan of all the places for the issue??
One should consider, that not every Taliban is the same. They were being paid by ISI, so why should they not provide these 'services'? If I recall well, there was not a single Pushtun Taliban that was released as a consequence of that hostage drama. They were all Pakjabis, but correct me if I am wrong.

There is much that is evil in Taliban. Alone for the destruction of those two Buddhas, they ought to be exterminated. But at the moment they are giving a bloody nose to India's immediate number one enemy, and that is a good thing. We want to see the Taliban giving the Pakistan Army a really bloody nose, either through casualties or through dissensions or through loss of morale. Alone for that, Pakiban is India's greatest Ally. Name me any other, any better one, except Soviet Union!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby faraz » 18 Jun 2009 13:10

The question if we should support Taliban or PA is like asking whether we should kiss Zaid Hamid or Ahmed Qureshi :rotfl:

Both are equally horrible. It is just a matter of precedence of Threat.

ISI and it puppets operating in India are our first level of Threat. Then the stooges in PA who support ISI are the next threat. PA is the next threat. Taliban can be a threat only if they are able to control Afghanistan and if they are able to support the terrorists in Kashmir.

Sorry for bringing ZH and AQ in the comparison. I wanted to bring in Marvi Memon but then desisted from this thought :D

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby SSridhar » 18 Jun 2009 13:20

Editorial in The Hindu

Excerpts
It is clear that some sections of its establishment continue to believe the terrorism of ‘non-state actors’ is a force-multiplier against India. {This is a common misperception that is either due to ignorance or a carefully cultivated and wilful suppression of truth. It is not 'some sections' and it is not confined to 'establishment' alone. Such a force-multiplier view is held by the largest, widest and the most ubiquitous sections of the society leave alone some obscure 'etablishment'. That's why it will take generations even if Pakistan suddenly turns a new leaf tomorrow, before the positive effects will be visible to India.}
The Hindu has consistently advocated engagement with Pakistan through dialogue for the simple reason there is no sane alternative to such a course. From the time of Inder Kumar Gujral, every Prime Minister has demonstrated a willingness to go the extra mile while insisting that Pakistan address India’s vital concerns on cross-border terrorism.{OK, if more than 10 years' of engagement and several extra-miles have only led to more violent, more audacious and more blatant terrorism against India, then, what use is that approach ? In fact, we have to conclude now that the 'sane approach' of dialogue has not yielded any result and we have to try other, perhaps saner, alternatives.}
the military operations in progress in the Swat valley against the Taliban have, for the first time, brought its actions in sync with its professions. {Here we go again, deceiving ourselves that what Pakistan does under US pressure to protect US interests, it will also do for India. Why should TSP do that to favour its mortal enemy ?}
Does Operation Rah-e-Rast signal a fundamental shift in the Pakistani state’s attitude towards radical Islamists? Perhaps not. But India can, through creative engagement, encourage those working for such a shift.{We have had creative engagements many times before but that has not stopped Pakistan from following its policy of using terror against India. What is different this time especially when Zardari is just a lame duck President without much control over either the Prime Minister or the Army ?}
New Delhi, for its part, must stress its willingness to go for an early harvest in many fields, especially Sir Creek, Siachen, energy cooperation, and water management.{What does 'early harvest' mean ? A certain negative connotation of the word 'harvest' denotes 'conversion' Are we to assume that we convert to Pakistani mode of thinking and surrender to their demands ? Why have the Indians fallen for this 'water management' trap ?}
The bottom line is that religious extremists and terrorists must not be allowed to set the terms. {By whom ? Is the Pakistani state willing to do that or even say that ? They want shariah throughout Pakistan and every political party agrees on that. Jihad is being spoken of with veneration by Ministers and Parliamentarians. Whom is The Hindu newspaper advising ?}

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby RajeshA » 18 Jun 2009 13:23

faraz wrote:The question if we should support Taliban or PA is like asking whether we should kiss Zaid Hamid or Ahmed Qureshi :rotfl:

Both are equally horrible. It is just a matter of precedence of Threat.

ISI and it puppets operating in India are our first level of Threat. Then the stooges in PA who support ISI are the next threat. PA is the next threat. Taliban can be a threat only if they are able to control Afghanistan and if they are able to support the terrorists in Kashmir.

When we use the word 'support' for a group, we muddy the waters, because somehow it presupposes some sort of ideological entente with that group, some sort of emotional stake in that group's winning. Let us try to be dispassionate on these aspects.

We should try to influence the capacities, the actions of certain figures, groups in the war theater, which ultimately leads to the desired outcome for us. We should use the word 'support' only in that sense and context.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby SSridhar » 18 Jun 2009 14:15

It is the Indian Army's actions in Kashmir that have led to instability within Pakistan

The vexed question of Kashmir, and the atrocities committed by India within the Valley, has fuelled 'jihad'; it has solidified a mindset that sees India as the enemy and forces which oppose it as friends. This has acted to spur on the militancy that threatens Pakistan today.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby arun » 18 Jun 2009 14:27

John Snow wrote:Folks forgive me for asking this ................

Is Taliban India's enemy? .............................

TIA


Going by Qari Turkistan's statement that Baitullah Mehsud is supported by India besides the US and Israel, the Taliban, at least the Pakistani variant of the Taliban, are India’s friends :wink: :

Thursday, June 18, 2009

‘US, India, Israel backing Mehsud’

LAHORE: A former close aide to Taliban chief Baitullah Mehsud has said the US, India and Israel are behind the Taliban commander, who he termed the biggest enemy of Islam, Dunya News reported on Wednesday. ……………………….

Daily Times

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby chiru » 18 Jun 2009 14:31

^^^ every body are fighting for their own survival in the subcontinent .....i don't see Taliban as a threat or as a friend ...but it may change soon

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby kvraghav » 18 Jun 2009 14:43

^^^
Exactly.When the threat perception changes,the priorities change.3 years before,no one dreamed taliban would ever attack PA but today it has changed.Also these behave like crusaders.We are now expecting Taliban to fight our war?They had earlier given a statement that if india attacks,they will fight alongside PA.so it implies for them india is a bigger enemy than PA.Also if they could align with Al-qaeda against their paymasters,what would stop them from aligning with LET and others against india??

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby harbans » 18 Jun 2009 15:14

I doubt Obama could've armtwisted India in any manner to get talks started. This GOI and MMS certainly have a depressingly naive approach when it comes to dealing with Paki scoundrels. This is so predictable. We've lost the next round of diplomatic talks..they will be on Kashmir..

I saw several smiling faces in Washington as news came from far away Yekaterinburg (till 1991 Sverdlovsk, named after the Bolshevik leader, Yakov Sverdlov) the city over which Gary Powers' U2 spy plane was shot down, that India had agreed to resume the dialogue with Pakistan.

Several of them, think tankers, had advocated resumption of the dialogue between India and Pakistan as an important ingredient in President Obama's [ Images ] Afpak policy.

It did not matter if India insisted only on discussing terrorism or if Prime Minister Manmohan Singh [ Images ] reprimanded President Zardari in front of the cameras. Resumption of dialogue it was for the US State Department and Pakistan, a gain after the dialogue had derailed following the Mumbai [ Images ] attacks. They did not want any credit for the new development, but they clearly relished it.

"How can Pakistan accept the fact that the dialogue was only about terrorism against India?" I asked one of them.

"That is not a problem. Pakistan will claim that the dialogue is on Kashmir because terrorism is an issue related to Kashmir. They can advance the argument that they are simply supporting the liberation struggle in Kashmir. As far as they are concerned, the resumption of dialogue lets them off the hook as far as Mumbai is concerned. Pakistan will project it as a diplomatic victory,"
he said.

That is precisely what Pakistan Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi did in his statement to the press:

'The two foreign secretaries will meet at mutually convenient dates to discuss the steps taken on either side to deal with extremism and terrorism. From those discussions, the political leadership will re-engage at Sharm-el-Sheikh (the Egypt [ Images ] town where the next Non Aligned Summit will be held).'


Thats why i miss GWB..and possibly Mc Cain.

We had heard this before, as Foreign Secretary Menon notes, but part of the reason for improvement in India-US relations was the fact that President Bush and his men did not use the K word. He would not even buy a cashmere shawl for his wife for fear of irritating his Indian friends, according to Washington sources.


http://news.rediff.com/column/2009/jun/ ... -talks.htm

arun
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby arun » 18 Jun 2009 15:18

Retired Pakistan Army Brigadier is most upset with Bruce Reidel’s May 30th Article in the Wall Street Journal:

Thursday, June 18, 2009

Comment: Riedel and the Pakistani Bomb —Naeem Salik

A person of Mr Riedel’s stature should be very careful in gathering and verifying his facts and should also avoid using unsubstantiated stereotypes and sweeping statements ...........

Daily Times

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby shiv » 18 Jun 2009 15:58

kvraghav wrote:Goodness,we now have people wanting to tolerate Taliban??Taliban did not interfere with india because they did not have a common border.Elsewhere they were active in SWAT long before US of A entered Afganistan.I dont beleive Taliban are saints.The day they take over Pak,they train their guns on india.Their only aim is to have an islamic emirate and keep on expanding.Why are they killing PA now??Thats because PA attacked them on USA insitence.Else they are all pally and concentrate on expanding their emirate.IF they can expand into SWAT,what will stop them from coming to gujarath or rajasthan??If they were that good,what stopped them from promptly arresting the released terrorist during kandahar and why did ISI choose afghanistan of all the places for the issue??



In what way would Taliban guns trained at India be worse than Pakistani guns? The idea of Taliban guns being worse than Paki guns is an idea straight out of the US. It is worse only for the US.

Pakis want to bring India down. Pakis threaten to nuke India. Taliban will want to bring India don, Taliban will threaten to nuke India.

But more happily :mrgreen: - the Taliban will want to nuke the US as well. Opposing the Taliban in favor of the Paki army means protecting US ass. By opposing the Taliban, nothing changes for us - but the threat to the US is reduced. Why does everyone want to protect US ass?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby shiv » 18 Jun 2009 16:04

faraz wrote:The question if we should support Taliban or PA is like asking whether we should kiss Zaid Hamid or Ahmed Qureshi


Minor correction

Do we want to kiss Kiyani or Mullah Omar?

At least Mullah Omar will reserve a few of the nukes he controls to lob at the US and Western targets. Kiyani accepts money to keep his nukes reserved for India alone.

Why is everyone blind to this?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby RajeshA » 18 Jun 2009 16:05

shiv wrote:Why does everyone want to protect US ass?

We are all Americans!

shiv
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

Postby shiv » 18 Jun 2009 16:15

kvraghav wrote:.We are now expecting Taliban to fight our war?


It's not that the Taliban will fight our war. We are fighting the Taliban's war by keeping the Paki army tied down in Kashmir. The Taliban are not being "defeated" because of India. If the Taliban are so bad, why not free the Pakistan army from the "India threat" so they can defeat the bad bad Taliban.

Of course, I personally want the Taliban to win, but obviously you and many others don't. But, don't you see - how can the Paki army win when big bad India is threatening to attack any minute. India must stop threatening Pakistan, so the Pakistani army can defeat the bad bad Taliban.

Once India becomes less threatening, the Taliban can be defeated - although I hope they are not. i hope that even if they are defeated there is enough resentment to keep the pot boiling for another 30 years. Sadly if teh Paki army wins the US will allow Paki nukes to be aimed at India forever with nothing aimed at the US. I too have relatives in the US who will carry my family genes so I am less worried about India being nuked. But in principle I would like to see the US under as much threat from Paki nukes as India. Obviously most Indians do not want the US to be threatened by Paki nukes. So I will have to accept that as Indic nationalism.


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