Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

HariC · Post by **HariC** » 06 Jun 2009 01:53

Parijat Gaur wrote:
HariC wrote: There is nothing wrong with the above. Judiciary , Executive and Legislature are higher on the totem pole of hierarchy. It would be humiliating if say the Defence Secretary or the Home Secretary have an exemption but the Chiefs of staff do not. but that is not the case here.

http://164.100.47.134/newls/instruction/precedence.pdf
So the Defence secretary is also not exempted from security checks at airports? I was not aware of that. But even so, would you not agree that is demeaning to perform security checks on Service Chiefs? If it takes defence secretary to be exempted from the checks, so be it. But IMO Service Chiefs should not have to give security checks.
PS: Are you sure that Defence secretary is not exempted from security checks at airports? I remember seeing a notice at Guwahati airport stating to the contrary(I may be mistaken here though).

Parijat, my assumption is that all babus are subject to security checks.

One thing that everyone is missing out - is that the Service chiefs have a service aircraft at their disposal - an Embraer jet . They can drive upto that aircraft and fly out whereever they want. This is something no cabinet secretary can do.

And not just the chiefs - but their second tier jarnails as well who command commands. so why are we bitching about what they undergo when they are off business in their civvies? If they are in civives it is right that they should undergo what everyone else undergoes. there is nothing humiliating there.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 06 Jun 2009 23:40

^^ Fair enough. But Chiefs did not always had Embraers at their disposal. However, now that they do have them, it is less of a concern.

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 07 Jun 2009 00:55

I am using FF 3.0.5 and on BR when I click on any link, it always opens up in the same tab. I have selected 'open in new tab ' in preferences, but for BR it only opens up in the same window.

any idea why and how to fix it.

AmitR · Post by **AmitR** » 07 Jun 2009 01:03

dnivas wrote:I am using FF 3.0.5 and on BR when I click on any link, it always opens up in the same tab. I have selected 'open in new tab ' in preferences, but for BR it only opens up in the same window.

any idea why and how to fix it.

Press Ctrl+Click on the link

IB4TL

KiranM · Post by **KiranM** » 08 Jun 2009 20:27

KiranM wrote:
kaangeya wrote:
You've got a lot of catching up to do. Spend a few months reading through BR.
Can anybody point me towards the material on India's unconventional ops expereience? The ones other than 1971 war.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Kiran

Anybody who can help on this?

HariC · Post by **HariC** » 08 Jun 2009 20:56

the aforesaid maj gen sabharwals book has some stuff on kashmir insurgency ops by para

phantoms of chittagong by major gen uban apparently has some stuff on the SFF

sum · Post by **sum** » 09 Jun 2009 22:28

phantoms of chittagong by major gen uban apparently has some stuff on the SFF

But this would again be about 71 which KiranM didn't want....

jayaaren · Post by **jayaaren** » 10 Jun 2009 00:25

Good Day

BRites,

as a newbie myself, i believe that we ought to take it from the start. while we have overhauled our military doctrine inline with AirLand battle and Combined Arms Formation usage, the basic issue of O&E of the armed forces personnel is still not addressed. the army for one, we must be one among the few armies in the world lacking firepower when it comes down to the basic fighting unit - squad/section. most modern armies have the section/squad built up as follows:
1 person manning a light machine gun (M-60/PKM/SAW/MG-3)
1 person functioning as the gunners assistant
1 person manning a hand held grenade launcher

to take this a step further, out of each 2 man fire team, one man would hold an assault rifle with an attached rifle grenade launcher

Any one got views on this
rest of the personnel carrying assault rifles

govardhanks · Post by **govardhanks** » 13 Jun 2009 16:39

The china has tested anti-satellite missiles. so can it destroy enemy satellites?

It needs to know where the satellites are locted for which it uses radar based approaches. Two possibilites radar which are ground based and which are non-ground based. Ground based radar do not have capability to detect geosynchronous satellites( military satellite are not geosynchronous) but can detect low orbit satellites( satellites with radar absorbing materials???? can be safe i guess) and non-ground based radars did't get data about them!. They pose a threat to spy satellites which have low orbits.

But they can have backup i.e., aircraft or anti-missiles can be dispatched for that we require launch place and they don't necessarily fall in your national boundaries...
The victim can break the accuracy of attacker particularly at the terminal guidance. The satellite like decoys( inflattable) to attract the missile to place other than the real space craft, can be used if we know early that satellite is under threat.

These anti- satellite weapons are causing fear but a good engineering can tell what they and what they cannot..

Refer this blog from which i selected and presented - it here http://spectrum.ieee.org/blog/semicondu ... killer_a_t

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 16 Jun 2009 09:03

Another newbie question - Reg numbers painted on fighter aircraft -

Why do they have them painted in such large font on the planes making them visible to everyone from afar? Wouldn't it then give the 'wrong people' an idea as to number of aircraft of that type that have been manufactured (if serial numbering is done)?

Also, it could also be helpful in identifying if a particular aircraft has had a specific upgrade if the upgrade is being done in batches etc etc.

Why would they not paint the numbers in a much much smaller size and at a specific place of the plane so that while visible to personnel on the ground, it wouldnt be visible from afar unless there are special circumstances.

thanks!

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 16 Jun 2009 11:44

jayaaren wrote: most modern armies have the section/squad built up as follows:

If I can still quote my NCC notes, the IA section is:-
1. 10 member team, under command a Naik (Cpl.)
2. The Lance Naik (L.Nk) will be in charge of an LMG
3. Another soldier to assist the L.Nk.
4. Remaining 7 members will be having assault rifles (and perhaps other weapons based on their mission plan).
5. Sec. Cmdr. Naik would be having navigational aids and a Sten Machine Carbine (SMC).

chiru · Post by **chiru** » 17 Jun 2009 13:12

well... here it is at last MY FIRST POST ON BRF i am really excited after lurking for 2 years i am a member at last

hi nitesh i am finally here ..but missing your posts in the UNMENTIONABLE FORUM

i am feeling like a warrior returning home from puki(defense forum) land

shiv-saar ,rayc ,rahul ,shankar-oski ,viviek ...you guys rock

thank you

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 18 Jun 2009 19:37

Gurus,

Sorry to hop in suddenly. Nothing new about the news posting. Just want to know, how these bills/deals work out.

>> Who initiates such bills?
>> If an X from Whitehouse initiates it, does he have a personal gain out of it?
>> Is that X getting benefited from Pak's heavy lobbying arm?
>> Is there anyway for Indian agencies or MEA folks to reverse this kind of thought process in Xs,Ys and Zs at capitol hill?
>> Can we not lobby that X to halt this deal?
>> During nuke deal, Pak's ISI and Foreign ministry folks might have tried to block the deal, but due to heavy Indian lobbying it worked out, on similar lines do Indian babus posted in N Delhi & Embassies try to block such deals other than just protesting and talking about it?
>> Or is this all about what US wants?
>>Even if all this is wanted by US, how can we change that attitude practically?

Please do not mind for asking such silly questions. Accept me as a noob

and help me understand how these things work out in a step by step process from point Start to point End. I want to understand the model of such deals just to see if anything can be worked out in our favor [again high expectation from babus

]

Obama-backed bill on Pakistan passed by Senate panel

Thanks,
Venkat

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 18 Jun 2009 20:32

Interesting find...

I want to develop few like that for Indian foreign policy, Indian military acquisitions, Inter Governmental deals[eg: Nuke deal] etc....so that it would be easy for anyone to understand how the Indian system works and to deduce any effective ways to improve the current system. I think this needs a lot of teamwork.

Thanks,
Venkat

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Jun 2009 02:27

There is an old book written by former MEA secy on Ministry of Defence. It has many flowcharts etc. Give me time for author's name etc.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 19 Jun 2009 02:32

Ramana,

I didn't know that such books on Indian system exists. Is it not a good idea to scan those and archive it on some BRF thread? so that on a time basis, we can review the changes made then and now? I am thinking that this will enable us to come up with an effective future Indian system.

2 cents...

Thanks,
Venkat

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Jun 2009 10:24

ramana wrote:There is an old book written by former MEA secy on Ministry of Defence. It has many flowcharts etc. Give me time for author's name etc.

The author is A.P. Venkateshwaran. And its the bible for the 1970s MoD.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 19 Jun 2009 23:12

Thanks Ramana

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 19 Jun 2009 23:29

This is totally unfair

i am demoted from a brfite->brfite-trainee what did i do to earn the wrath of the the admin's hellphyre

ckapadia · Post by **ckapadia** » 20 Jun 2009 00:25

Can anyone tell some details of AESA radars. I understand the theory of them and understand the advantages such as increased range, ability to track multiple targets and immune from enemy ECM. I have read in wikipedia that AESA radars cannot be detected by RWR due to lower power. Is this true? What are the other advantages over conventional radars?

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 20 Jun 2009 21:32

ckapadia wrote:Can anyone tell some details of AESA radars. I understand the theory of them and understand the advantages such as increased range, ability to track multiple targets and immune from enemy ECM. I have read in wikipedia that AESA radars cannot be detected by RWR due to lower power. Is this true? What are the other advantages over conventional radars?

Hi ck... can you mail me at sniperz11s at googel maiil dat cam... I'll send u a basic explanation over.

sum · Post by **sum** » 21 Jun 2009 09:53

Prasad sir,
Could i also get a copy of the material? Will mail you if ok.

AmitR · Post by **AmitR** » 21 Jun 2009 15:35

http://www.ndtv.com/news/videos/video_p ... id=1128285

Gurkha military band on World Music Day.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Jun 2009 17:23

Any clever rakshaks involved in the development of this open source flight sim program?

http://www.flightgear.org/

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 22 Jun 2009 09:38

sum wrote:Prasad sir,
Could i also get a copy of the material? Will mail you if ok.

Sure sumji, although I'm sure it would be way way way below ur level... the reason I said mail is coz I'm not confident enuf to put it up openly. I'm sure that it'll be filled with errors...

plz do mail, and we can probably try and fix it together...

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 22 Jun 2009 13:55

k prasad wrote: Sure sumji, although I'm sure it would be way way way below ur level... the reason I said mail is coz I'm not confident enuf to put it up openly. I'm sure that it'll be filled with errors...

plz do mail, and we can probably try and fix it together...

k prasad sir can I also get a copy?? please.

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 22 Jun 2009 17:31

shiv wrote:
skher wrote:This vertical pic gave me a very,very horizontal idea .

Can such an aircraft perform complete somersault...flipped full 180 on belly?
If so, is it possible to still have passengers on board who could parachute down just by using the earth's gravity (assuming upper fuselage has a big open door)
That is not called somersault. It is called a 180 deg roll.

Most civilian aircraft are not designed to do this deliberately mainly because passengers cannot be treated like cornflakes to be poured out of a container.

Even if passengers were willing to be cornflakes, there is the little matter of having to blow the roof off. One could design a plane with no roof, but at 600 kmph it would be a bit breezy. A system of explosive bolts to blow the roof off and dump passengers could be conceived, but that would present the problem of the passengers rolling over each other as the plane flips 180 degrees. Unrelated women would be touching strange men and this would be a no no for Gulf airlines ruling out a huge chunk of market

Far simpler would be to have trapdoors below every seat that could be opened at the flick of a switch to dump passengers in the direction that Isaac Newton wanted them to go. Business class seats could have parachutes and cattle class a prayer book

Being mostly unimaginative, aircraft designers for civilian aircraft are mostly working on almost foolproof safety so that none of the above would be required - so a lot of innovation and original thought from people such as yourself are going down the drain.

Designers are even more stupid with military aircraft. Instead of simply turning the plane over and dumping the pilot - they blow off the canopy with explosives (dangerous! Bombs in the cockpit!). At least then they could dump the pilot no? But the wont. They then blow the seat out, upwards using a rocket charge going against the laws of nature.

Was catching up with newbie posts as a new joinee and came across this post . Good post Shivji. Iam

narayana · Post by **narayana** » 22 Jun 2009 18:34

Admins,

My post count reduced to 215 from 360 odd,may i know the reason.

Thanks in Advance.

arjun_vs · Post by **arjun_vs** » 22 Jun 2009 21:03

Hi all.

This is my First post on BRF. Like many in here my favourite is also the Military Scenario post.
Well my question is very simple..... What is the qualification for becoming a BR-fite from a BR-trainee

.
Does this depend on the no: of posts...?

AmitR · Post by **AmitR** » 22 Jun 2009 22:49

arjun_vs wrote:Hi all. This is my First post on BRF. Like many in here my favourite is also the Military Scenario post.
Well my question is very simple..... What is the qualification for becoming a BR-fite from a BR-trainee .
Does this depend on the no: of posts...?

No!
You need some insider contacts and load of money. How do you think BR is working without any sponsorships.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 23 Jun 2009 23:14

arjun_vs wrote:Hi all. This is my First post on BRF. Like many in here my favourite is also the Military Scenario post.
Well my question is very simple..... What is the qualification for becoming a BR-fite from a BR-trainee .
Does this depend on the no: of posts...?

Arjun, you will transition from a BR-Trainer to a Burfi when your post count exceeds 100.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 24 Jun 2009 00:14

arjun_vs wrote:Hi all. This is my First post on BRF. Like many in here my favourite is also the Military Scenario post.
Well my question is very simple..... What is the qualification for becoming a BR-fite from a BR-trainee .
Does this depend on the no: of posts...?

Dont take that as a hindrance though. You can add value to the forum no matter what the number of posts. Its the quality that matters. As we saw recently too many pointless posts can send hellfires your way!

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 24 Jun 2009 14:23

True , quality matters, and these days no hellfires, only brahmos are being launched

govardhanks · Post by **govardhanks** » 24 Jun 2009 14:38

My question is--

1. Can we have mid air re-arming system, i mean can we reload the missiles to the aircraft while it is still in flight?

2. For Su- 30 MKI with 4.5 hrs combat mission and air refuelling can increase it to 10 hrs, won't the pilot get sick at such long durations?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 24 Jun 2009 17:31

1>> the israelis claimed to be working on something similar 2-3 years ago. no details were available.

2>> very good question. this is one of the main reasons why IAF insisted on having two pilots to share the workload. for a 10 hour mission you are unlikely to encounter crisis situations for the whole duration. much of it is likely to involve moving from A to B and the pilots can then engage auto-pilot and relax in turns.
for nature calls they use adult diapers
I'm sure they carry some high energy concentrated food too.

arjun_vs · Post by **arjun_vs** » 24 Jun 2009 21:01

BijuShet wrote:
arjun_vs wrote:Hi all. This is my First post on BRF. Like many in here my favourite is also the Military Scenario post.
Well my question is very simple..... What is the qualification for becoming a BR-fite from a BR-trainee .
Does this depend on the no: of posts...?
Arjun, you will transition from a BR-Trainer to a Burfi when your post count exceeds 100.

Thank u all for ur replies.
At first i really thought what AmitR said was true

Would always keep 'Quality' in mind

govardhanks · Post by **govardhanks** » 25 Jun 2009 16:31

These questions are about missiles i could't find a definite answer for it.

1. After a missile like Agni is produced, for how many years it will be in functional state?

2. I have read that radar system like AWACS can focus their radar beams and can destroy the missile'e electronic equipment. Is it possible if so how many missiles it can destroy?

3. Can a missile function without the help satellites?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Jun 2009 19:55

govardhanks wrote:My question is--

1. Can we have mid air re-arming system, i mean can we reload the missiles to the aircraft while it is still in flight?

2. For Su- 30 MKI with 4.5 hrs combat mission and air refuelling can increase it to 10 hrs, won't the pilot get sick at such long durations?

Mid air re-arming has never been done to my knowledge. My compliments for coming up with a really original question. Why has nobody done it? Probbay because it is difficult - however that is no a good excuse

Su-30 flying 10 hours - the pilot will be tired at the end of it.

govardhanks wrote:These questions are about missiles i could't find a definite answer for it.

1. After a missile like Agni is produced, for how many years it will be in functional state?

2. I have read that radar system like AWACS can focus their radar beams and can destroy the missile'e electronic equipment. Is it possible if so how many missiles it can destroy?

3. Can a missile function without the help satellites?

Expiry date for Agni: don't know

Focusing radar beams - don't know

Most missiles work without satellites. Missiles do not need satellites to work

HariC · Post by **HariC** » 25 Jun 2009 20:08

Mid air re-arming has never been done to my knowledge. My compliments for coming up with a really original question. Why has nobody done it? Probbay because it is difficult - however that is no a good excuse

A better excuse is that "It is not needed - will not be needed in a realistic battle"

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 25 Jun 2009 20:11

shiv wrote:
govardhanks wrote:My question is--

1. Can we have mid air re-arming system, i mean can we reload the missiles to the aircraft while it is still in flight?

2. For Su- 30 MKI with 4.5 hrs combat mission and air refuelling can increase it to 10 hrs, won't the pilot get sick at such long durations?
Mid air re-arming has never been done to my knowledge. My compliments for coming up with a really original question. Why has nobody done it? Probbay because it is difficult - however that is no a good excuse

Su-30 flying 10 hours - the pilot will be tired at the end of it.

Aerial re-arming Far technologies

Concept
Remove bottleneck by re-arming aircraft in the air, in a safe area, close to the fighting zone using the Airborne Re-Arming System (ABRA).

Technical Overview

Designed for efficient aerial delivery of bombs from a cargo aircraft to attack aircraft (fighter jet or UCAV)
The cargo and combat aircraft will not require modification

Cargo Aircraft

Internal design allows for large quantities and efficient weapon storage
Utilizing an aft door remote driven BOOM, with a aerodynamic lift surfaces, producing it’s own lift, carries the ordnance while reducing the momentum on the tanker
Close circuit TV allow day or night operation
Load weapons on the fighter
Attack Aircraft

Equipped with "smart pylons", which allow connecting and interface with the cargo Aircraft robotic arm boom system
Enable the installation and activation of the weapon on pneumatic multi-action ejection mechanism
Performance and Technical Benefits
Based on the concept and technology, Professor Asher Tishler, from the Faculty of Management at the Tel Aviv University, conducted an analysis of the potential combined operational, logistical and economical contribution of airborne rearming on 3 – 9 hours bombing missions at ranges of 250 to 1,000 nautical miles from the operating base. For UCAVs, 12 – 30 hour mission durations were analyzed. The analysis demonstrated a dramatic increase in the number of bombs dropped for a given mission duration:

Increase of well over 100% more bombs for close-by target zones
Increase of well over 200% more bombs for far away target zones
A dramatic reduction in the time required to drop a given number of bombs on the target zone
- Over 60% reduction in the time required for close-by target zones
- About 70% (or more) reduction in the time required for far away target zones