Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 17 Jun 2009 01:00

Mumbai: Police officers present at Cama Hospital during the Mumbai terror attacks gave repeated and clear instructions asking for the area to be encircled and reinforcements to be sent but their calls went unheard.

Anti-Terrorism Squad chief Hemant Karkare, additional commissioner Ashok Kamte and senior inspector Vijay Salaskar were all gunned down near the Cama Hospital on the night of 26/11.

Six months later, a CNN-IBN investigation has sifted through police call records on that fateful night to reveal some startling facts.

Karkare, Kamte and Salaskar all reached the Cama Hospital separately on the night of November 26, 2008.

At 1124 hrs IST, when Pakistani terrorists Mohammed Ajmal Amir Kasab and Ismail Khan had already been inside Cama Hospital for 25 minutes, Karkare called the control room from his position at the rear entry of the hospital.

"I am at Cama Hospital. There is firing going on here.. Blasts are taking place... three-four grenade blasts have taken place in front of us in the last five minutes. It is important to encircle Cama Hospital. We are next to Special Branch office. Send a team to the front side of Cama Hospital and this needs to be co-ordinated to ensure that there is no cross firing," Karkare told the Control Room.

Four minutes later, Karkare called again.

"ATS, QRT (Quick Response Team) and Crime Branch's team are on the side of SB2 office. So we need a team on the front side of Cama. We need to encircle Cama Hospital. Surround it. Ask Mr Prasad {Joint Commissioner (Law and Order)} to request Army authorities," Karkare said.

The Control Room responded by saying, "Sir, noted."

Meanwhile, Additional Commissioner of Police Sadanand Date was battling Kasab and Ismail inside the hospital.

Date had arrived at Cama soon after the terrorists, and was taking them on with other officers. Starting at 2319 hrs IST, at regular intervals, Date kept telling his wireless operator to ask the Control Room for reinforcements.

Date's conversation with the Control Room:

*

At 2319 hrs IST: Firing going on in Cama Hospital. Send commandos immediately.

*

At 2320 hrs IST: Firing going on, on the sixth floor. Help quickly.

*

At 2323 hrs IST: Two-three blasts have taken place. Help immediately.

*

At 2325 hrs IST: Firing is going on, on sixth floor of Cama. Need reinforcements.

*

At 2326 hrs IST: Shortage of striking at Cama.

*

At 2327 hrs IST: Send striking to Cama, running short of men.

*

At 2328 hrs IST: Heavy firing. We are all injured. Need help. Please need reinforcements.

Date's right eye was injured, his left leg badly wounded during the gunbattle. Yet he continued to shoot. At around midnight, Kasab and Ismail left Cama Hospital from the front entrance

They went to hide in the Rang Bhavan lane, nearby and when they saw Karkare, Kamte and Salaskar looking for them in their car, they shot them dead.

The crucial question is: Why were Karkare's orders for encircling Cama and securing its front gate not followed promptly? Did Sadanand Date's repeated calls for help go unheard?

The Mumbai police say they did send reinforcements that night - at least 70 to 80 police officers. They say the problem was that there were too many officers, and not enough co-ordination.

Negligence, carelessness or a sheer lack of co-ordination - whatever the reason, the fact remains that Kasab and Ismail were able to walk out of Cama Hospital on the night of 26/11 without being stopped. They had killed, and would kill again... and they could have been prevented.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/mumbai-polic ... 040-3.html

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Jun 2009 01:00

The State govt already threw out hte panel report. Very clearly there was command failure at Maha Police.

Who is this Mr. Prasad who is requested to ask for Army help. What did he do or dinnt?

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 18 Jun 2009 14:34

He is most likely KL Prasad. At the time he was the Joint commissioner for Law and Order. There are a total of 5 Jt. Commissioners in Mumbai Police, reporting to the Commissioner in heirarchy. As the name implies, he is the actual person responsible for the law and order situation in the city, and the guy in charge.

Apparently KL Prasad is now acting Commissioner since Mr. Gafoor has been transferred. Rakesh Maria replaced KL Prasad

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 18 Jun 2009 17:23

http://news.rediff.com/inter/2009/jun/1 ... s-case.htm

Ujjwal Nikam on his case. Nice to see him put Sheela Bhatt in her place a bit.

And here is the interview of the defence lawyer

http://news.rediff.com/inter/2009/jun/1 ... s-case.htm

Notice how Sheela Bhatt handles him with kid gloves. IF you read between the lines for both interviews, both are aware that Kasab is going to get convicted.... Abbas Azmi is to be applauded for taking up the case in spite of all the attendant drawbacks. Proves that his client gets a fair trial even if he deserved to be drawn, quartered and then burnt for good measure.

Expect PUCL types, Teesta Setalvad and Shabana Azmi to clamor for clemency after the verdict.

To top it all, expect madarssa math from Verappa Moily about queues for executing people on the death row.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Jun 2009 19:49

Any pics of this gentleman?

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 18 Jun 2009 20:11

ramana wrote:Any pics of this gentleman?

Indian Express Article with picture of Abbas Kazmi - defence lawyer for Ajmal Kasab

Edited later: I am not sure if you wanted a pic of Joint CP: K L Prasad so posting those links too.
Mumbai Mirror article with Joint CP: K L Prasad's pic

Flickr Pic of K L Prasad in the audience attending the Thane Cyber Lab Inauguration

Daijiworld - C P - K L Prasad and Archana Tyagi-Sharma at Police Club Azad Maidan called upon a meeting with mall & multiplex and theatre owner for security purpose on Monday August 27 with original article here

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 19 Jun 2009 03:20

Action taken report, still no action

In the United States, most major city police forces have retrained personnel to deal with Mumbai-type attacks. Singapore has conducted a massive exercise code-named Northstar-Seven exercise, simulating multiple attacks on hotels, businesses and transport networks. The exercise tested recommendations made by a team of experts who had travelled to Mumbai and met with officials involved in the November 26 operations.

No Indian city, though, has bothered to make the same effort.

I guess everything has to be done by NSG onlee

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 23 Jun 2009 17:28

26/11 Mumbai court issues arrest warrants against 22 Pakistanis

A special court here on Tuesday issued non-bailable warrants (NBWs) against 22 absconding Pakistanis wanted in connection with the 26/11
terrorist attacks.

Accepting a plea by Special Public Prosecutor Ujjwal Nikam, Special Judge M L Tahilyani paased the order this afternoon.

Nikam had on Monday urged that the court should issue NBWs since the addresses of 27 of the 35 wanted accused were available with the Indian government.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 24 Jun 2009 08:59

India hands over the arrest warrants to Pakistan

India on Tuesday reportedly handed over to Pakistan non-bailable arrest warrants issued by a Mumbai court against 22 absconders in the trial of last year’s Mumbai terrorist attacks.

The warrants were issued in response to a prosecutors’ motion in the ongoing trial of Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, the only surviving suspect in the attacks.

Pakistani High Commissioner to India Shahid Malik met Indian Foreign Secretary Shiv Shankar Menon at South Block, the headquarters of Indian Foreign Office. The meeting was officially described as “routine”, and diplomatic sources said the Pakistani envoy was handed over court warrants against the absconders from Indian courts

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 24 Jun 2009 17:20

Pak not to hand over anybody to India

Pakistan said on Wednesday it would not hand over to India its citizens suspected of causing the 26/11 mayhem but would try them under its own laws.

"No Pakistani would be handed over to any other country including India," Minister of State for Foreign Affairs Malik Amad Ahmed Khan said during the debate in the National Assembly, the lower house of parliament, on the budget for fiscal 2009-10, Online news agency reported.

The enquiry into the carnage would be held in accordance with Pakistani laws in the light of the proof provided by India, he said, adding that this country's soil would not be permitted to be used for launching terrorist attacks.

"Pakistan wants cordial relations with its neighbouring countries to be based on equality. The government is trying to highlight the image of the country as a moderate Islamic state among the comity of nations ," Mr. Khan maintained.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 24 Jun 2009 20:07

SSridhar:

As much as I have been a critique of MMS, I still am, and I am suspiscous of him, I have to give him credit to keep the focus on Mumbai for whatever its worth. I thought the recent meeting with 10% would be a profuse love-making affair, but he seems to have stuck to his gun. Hope it lasts.

But the problem I see is that TSP has faced no pinch, not only on Mumbai, but in general, in hosting the LeT. And now they are even openly and brazenly claiming that LeT is their asset.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 29 Jun 2009 07:05

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/5661 ... pened.html

It is astonishingly clear from these calls that the terrorist leaders, said to be in Pakistan, knew every move the police were making as the hostage crisis unfolded. Here's one exchange we translated from the tape:

(Terrorist in Nariman House) "Is there anyone in our building?"

(Terrorist controller) "Look at the terrace at the back – the police are there. There's a building under construction, they're on top of that building and there's a lot of police on the main road. You know the Merchant House? They're sitting behind the protruding rear wall and firing shells. You talk to them and God willing they'll leave."

In other disturbing telephone calls which Newsnight will broadcast the terrorist leader cynically consoles the Rabbi's wife suggesting she will live to celebrate the Sabbath if she cooperates by passing on demands to the Israeli consulate. Hours later he gave the order for their murder.

So how did the leaders know the police positions in such detail? Mumbai police say the they were watching live TV in Pakistan. But these instructions seem remarkably precise for that. I know the kind of live-shots used in these situations and they would be unlikely to yield that kind of detail. It is far more likely that they had spotters on the ground who were feeding back information to their leaders about the police movements. If this is true then it means a Lashkar e-Taiba cell in Mumbai which played a crucial role in the attacks which is still undiscovered.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 29 Jun 2009 08:41

It is far more likely that they had spotters on the ground who were feeding back information to their leaders about the police movements. If this is true then it means a Lashkar e-Taiba cell in Mumbai which played a crucial role in the attacks which is still undiscovered.

A very important input.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 29 Jun 2009 08:53

Footage of police interviewing Kasab released: TV

A British news outlet released footage on Sunday of a police interview with a Pakistani man on trial over last year's Mumbai attacks, in which he admitted working for militant group Laskhar-e-Taiba (LeT).

The full footage will be shown on Channel Four's "Dispatches" programme on Tuesday, along with recordings of many of the shooters' audio conversations with controllers who urged them on.

Can any Rakshaks in Londonistan record this ?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Jun 2009 09:30

RayC wrote:
It is far more likely that they had spotters on the ground who were feeding back information to their leaders about the police movements. If this is true then it means a Lashkar e-Taiba cell in Mumbai which played a crucial role in the attacks which is still undiscovered.
A very important input.

But those spotters must have had a means of communication with the handlers in Pakistan. All cell lines would have been monitored and satphones too. Internet phone information was later released by the US. Chances are that such a spotter's communication would have been picked up.

I mean that the action was over a geographic area covering several city blocks and no single spotter would have been able to do that without having a communication center that he would have to call with info, and that communication center would have been in touch with Pakistan. So there must have been many spotters with phones and at least one comm center with IP phone or satphone.

While I would not dismiss this outright - it could well be one of "Dispatches" (or is it Newsnight?) typical conspiracies that lead to good viewer ratings. I don't doubt the presence of LeT cell in India, but whether they came in handy in those crucial hours is another matter. I have myself made recordings of he entire area around Nariman house as broadcast on TV and a lot of that info was obviously and blatantly available to anyone watching TV.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 29 Jun 2009 09:33

shiv wrote: But those spotters must have had a means of communication with the handlers in Pakistan. All cell lines would have been monitored and satphones too. Internet phone information was later released by the US. Chances are that such a spotter's communication would have been picked up.

I would not discount instant messaging.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 29 Jun 2009 12:34

Wonder what some very vocal and vociferous burkha brigade DDM TV anchors have to say now.

Also, why is this report surfacing now, specially when the porkis are dragging their feet and not completing the investigations on their side?

‘‘Lashkar cell in Mumbai aided 26/11 terrorists’’

dipak · Post by **dipak** » 29 Jun 2009 13:49

But those spotters must have had a means of communication with the handlers in Pakistan. All cell lines would have been monitored and satphones too. Internet phone information was later released by the US. Chances are that such a spotter's communication would have been picked up.

I mean that the action was over a geographic area covering several city blocks and no single spotter would have been able to do that without having a communication center that he would have to call with info, and that communication center would have been in touch with Pakistan. So there must have been many spotters with phones and at least one comm center with IP phone or satphone.

We all watched a lot of crowd around the scenes and they had access with relative ease - how difficult is it that a few of them standing among the crowd, observing the latest location of the security personnel and calling to some other country - say, Dubai to one of their colleague who in turn passing the message immediately to the handlers in Pakistan? Or, say, not directly calling out of India - just calling to some other city in India and from there getting it relayed to other country and then to Pak? The entire cycle will not take long before the information is irrelevant to the terrorists. It will be very difficult to effectively monitor the entire set of calls in that nick of time.

I think in future, its a must to cordon off the area entirely and very selective access to the media with strict monitoring and censoring what they are broadcasting.

JMT.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 29 Jun 2009 16:31

>>If this is true then it means a Lashkar e-Taiba cell in Mumbai which played a crucial role in the attacks which is still undiscovered.

A couple of points: (1) how do they know it is a "Lashkar e-Taiba" cell? Could be one of local organisations liaising for just this purpose; (2) more importantly, why are they so confident that it is "still undiscovered". It is highly unlikely that such data would be forwarded on to Newsnight or Dispatches by our people. If at all, and even this is unlikely, the information may have been passed on to MI6 - and then, possibly, leaked to Newsnight and or Dispatches (and this is damned unlikely as well).

So take that part for what it's worth. Was there such communication going on? Almost certainly. Was it interceptable (certainly) and intercepted (most likely). However, it may have been some time before the data was collated and the sources identified.

Or it could simply indicate a deliberate raising of the Lashkar media profile for some purpose which we will discover a couple of months from now.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 29 Jun 2009 18:36

chetak wrote:Wonder what some very vocal and vociferous burkha brigade DDM TV anchors have to say now.

Also, why is this report surfacing now, specially when the porkis are dragging their feet and not completing the investigations on their side?

‘‘Lashkar cell in Mumbai aided 26/11 terrorists’’

Why? Because if there is a local connection established, the burkha brigade DDM TV anchors can then say its all because of Gujarat, poor economic condition of Indian Muslims & rampant discrimination against them; the western media will add color by saying how the "Brahmin-dominated Hindoo caste system" led to the alienation of Indian Muslims; and of course, TSP will have the last laugh; "we are both victims onlee", "we must join hands and remove the root causes"; and if all this is not painful enough, Vir Sanghvi will add his bit: "we are on our way to superpowerdom, just give away Kashmir"; this could very will be the tamasha that is being enacted.

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 29 Jun 2009 19:01

The report is probably true in that there probably was a LeT cell in Mumbai. However, I agree with Shiv in that the reporting was very detailed indeed. Anyone with a good TV set and a cell phone could have provided the information. Watson speaks of the kind of info that news crews would be allowed to report in the West. In India, with no regulation, it was a free-for-all. We all saw the footage of the sniper positions being revealed during the Taj assault. The same could have happened at Nariman house - especially since the area was very crowded and the police presence was easily detected.

Praveen Swami is only partially correct when he speaks of the efforts in the US. Elements of the metro police forces have been given some orientation training, but like in India, it is appreciated that good shooting and a rapid armed response are the keys to containing a similar terrorist strike. This is a strength that they can build on and one which cannot be underestimated.

It is very clear from the transcripts and from the comments in Court that the Mumbai police at CST and Kama could have contained the situation but failed to do so. The sub-strength platoon that passes for a QRT in Mumbai came into action much too late.

We can talk about the need for AKs and SWAT units etc all of which is true. It should not detract from the fact that the policemen at CST could have done a lot better had they cleaned and maintained their weapons and actually practiced with them once in a while.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 29 Jun 2009 19:58

one thing is for sure, there wasn't a strong and wide enough cordon on the scenes of action. possibly there were too many locations, but in India, manpower is not the issue. i have no doubt that spotters were on hand and relaying what they knew. the situation controllers would have used them, as well as media imagery and formed a composite view. i recall at the time, we discussed the role of the taxis heading off in different directions with bombs on them and we speculated that there was a support team, perhaps the officers who first ensured that the raiding party were set up before moving on? i am not sure we know the whole truth about this tragedy.

also, too many different VIP's coming and going and giving interviews, not to mention both Army and Navy brass. i distinctly remember a british tv crew boarding the bus where the commando's were waiting to be moved back to the airport and trying to interview the jawan after the end of the taj action. he was shy and smiling and self effacing which the mem-sahib was lapping up. nowhere else would a news crew get so close to the personnel involved

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 29 Jun 2009 20:08

One article speculated that it was colaba based businessmen that supported the attacks. Basically, we are groping in the dark. Need to wait and see what turns up

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 29 Jun 2009 20:20

^^^
Did the the said businessman also contest elections on BSP's ticket from Mumbai?

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 29 Jun 2009 22:57

The BBC's unlikely story on 26/11
B Raman
June 29, 2009

Under its Newsnight programme, the British Broadcasting Corporation 2 is reportedly planning to show tonight an investigative story on last year's Mumbai [Images] terrorist attacks by Richard Watson, its correspondent.
...

His conclusion is based on his assessment of the communications intelligence collected by the police and not on the basis of any independent evidence collected by him in addition to what the Mumbai Police had collected.
...
To say that the LeT must still be having unearthed sleeper cells in Mumbai is one thing and to assert that the spotters of an LeT sleeper cell in Mumbai must have been passing on details of police deployments around the targeted areas to the controllers in Pakistan during the attacks is something totally different.
...

Had there been LeT spotters around the areas targeted, who were in independent communication with the controllers in Pakistan their conversations -- whether through the Internet or otherwise -- must have also been intercepted contemporaneously or recorded and noticed subsequently. No intelligence agency -- neither Indian nor the US nor of any other country -- has spoken of any such conversation with Pakistan by elements not participating in the attacks. This would show that apart from the 10 terrorists of the LeT, who participated in the attacks, nobody else was in independent communication with the controllers in Pakistan.

The terrorist attacks were covered from different camera angles by camera teams from over 50 TV channels of the world. If the controllers in Pakistan had been able to see all their live transmissions, they would have had the minutest details of the police deployments.

During the Black September kidnapping of some Israeli athletes during the Munich Olympics [Images] in 1972, the terrorists, who had taken up position with the hostages inside a house in the games village, were able to get details of the police deployments by watching TV inside the house. At that time, there were hardly half a dozen channels and their technical equipment was not very good. If they were able to get so many details by watching so few channels, it should not be surprising that the Pakistan-based controllers of the Mumbai attacks were able to get a lot more details in such precision.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 29 Jun 2009 23:06

Avinash R wrote:
The BBC's unlikely story on 26/11
B Raman
June 29, 2009

Under its Newsnight programme, the British Broadcasting Corporation 2 is reportedly planning to show tonight an investigative story on last year's Mumbai [Images] terrorist attacks by Richard Watson, its correspondent.
...

His conclusion is based on his assessment of the communications intelligence collected by the police and not on the basis of any independent evidence collected by him in addition to what the Mumbai Police had collected.
...
To say that the LeT must still be having unearthed sleeper cells in Mumbai is one thing and to assert that the spotters of an LeT sleeper cell in Mumbai must have been passing on details of police deployments around the targeted areas to the controllers in Pakistan during the attacks is something totally different.
...

Had there been LeT spotters around the areas targeted, who were in independent communication with the controllers in Pakistan their conversations -- whether through the Internet or otherwise -- must have also been intercepted contemporaneously or recorded and noticed subsequently. No intelligence agency -- neither Indian nor the US nor of any other country -- has spoken of any such conversation with Pakistan by elements not participating in the attacks. This would show that apart from the 10 terrorists of the LeT, who participated in the attacks, nobody else was in independent communication with the controllers in Pakistan.

The terrorist attacks were covered from different camera angles by camera teams from over 50 TV channels of the world. If the controllers in Pakistan had been able to see all their live transmissions, they would have had the minutest details of the police deployments.

During the Black September kidnapping of some Israeli athletes during the Munich Olympics [Images] in 1972, the terrorists, who had taken up position with the hostages inside a house in the games village, were able to get details of the police deployments by watching TV inside the house. At that time, there were hardly half a dozen channels and their technical equipment was not very good. If they were able to get so many details by watching so few channels, it should not be surprising that the Pakistan-based controllers of the Mumbai attacks were able to get a lot more details in such precision.

This is a cunning chaal by the BBC to help out its porki friends.

Its specially put out to help the porkis to try and corner India by muddying the 26/11 waters by fallaciously claiming that local Indian groups helped out. The porkis are hoping that their non prosecution of hafiz sayeed and his goonda gang will get covered up in the resulting brouhaha.

The porkis will now send a demarche asking for details of Indian involvement.

rajsunder · Post by **rajsunder** » 29 Jun 2009 23:11

shiv wrote:But those spotters must have had a means of communication with the handlers in Pakistan. All cell lines would have been monitored and satphones too. Internet phone information was later released by the US. Chances are that such a spotter's communication would have been picked up.

I mean that the action was over a geographic area covering several city blocks and no single spotter would have been able to do that without having a communication center that he would have to call with info, and that communication center would have been in touch with Pakistan. So there must have been many spotters with phones and at least one comm center with IP phone or satphone.

While I would not dismiss this outright - it could well be one of "Dispatches" (or is it Newsnight?) typical conspiracies that lead to good viewer ratings. I don't doubt the presence of LeT cell in India, but whether they came in handy in those crucial hours is another matter. I have myself made recordings of he entire area around Nariman house as broadcast on TV and a lot of that info was obviously and blatantly available to anyone watching TV.

Shiv, I just donot beleive that GOI has any facility to track each and every phone line(u can do it two ways, one manually by having operators listening to each and every phone conversation which is highly improbable or have a software which understands the language being spoken on each and every phone line and prompts the operator on any conversations that which it feels are important for some human intervention, which i believe we do not have the required technology). If you remember even the phones used by terrorists during 26-11 have been tracked because they had some prior information of some sim cards being bought in West bengal(and by chance they were the ones used by terrorists).
A clever cell operative need not contact directly the handler in pak, he just needs to send this info to some one in some other place other than pak and that guy can pass it on to pak

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 30 Jun 2009 00:10

UK Telegraph...
Mumbai: What really happened

It is far more likely that they had spotters on the ground who were feeding back information to their leaders about the police movements. If this is true then it means a Lashkar e-Taiba cell in Mumbai which played a crucial role in the attacks which is still undiscovered.

Politically, of course, it would be very damaging for India to discover that local Indian Muslims were involved. One man has been arrested and charged with providing video and maps of targets but he was in custody for another offence at the time of the attack. The police are adamant this was a wholly Pakistani operation, and for now at least, it seems as if their investigation is closed.

Richard Watson is a correspondent with BBC Newsnight and his film about the Mumbai attacks will be shown Monday on BBC2 at 10.30pm

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 30 Jun 2009 00:50

>>I just donot beleive that GOI has any facility to track each and every phone line(u can do it two ways, one manually by having operators listening to each and every phone conversation which is highly improbable or have a software which understands the language being spoken on each and every phone line and prompts the operator on any conversations that which it feels are important for some human intervention, which i believe we do not have the required technology).

Open source info strongly suggests that this view is incorrect.

rajsunder · Post by **rajsunder** » 30 Jun 2009 01:42

JE Menon wrote:>>I just donot beleive that GOI has any facility to track each and every phone line(u can do it two ways, one manually by having operators listening to each and every phone conversation which is highly improbable or have a software which understands the language being spoken on each and every phone line and prompts the operator on any conversations that which it feels are important for some human intervention, which i believe we do not have the required technology).

Open source info strongly suggests that this view is incorrect.

It would be great if you can provide some links.

My theory is that if we were able to do that in Mumbai we would have been able to do it in every other part of India (derived from mathematical theorem of induction, if we can do it till n, we can do it till n+1). And we would not have had seen these spectacular success achieved by paki terrorists in India.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 30 Jun 2009 03:50

I just finished seeing the report on Newsnight . Some important points that got mentioned.

- ( IMHO from what I saw : ) There are only mild suspicions that there could be more local spotters. It is not categorical. It _does_ _not_ repeatedly air this view.
- Only 1 local spotter has been arrested. He paid about £700 in advance for 6 months stay in some neighbourhood
- Jewish center hidden in a maze of streets was somehow identified by the piglets and they managed to reach and wreak havoc
- Mumbai Police Detective mentions that the case has reached a logical end and there are no more loose ends
-> o In his words, 10 guys have been picked trained and let loose. No more local spotters in his opinion
-> o 12000 pages of evidence
-> o He does not believe substandard equipment was used.
- H.Karkares wife interviewd later tells the program that substandard eqpmnt was used
- No ambivalence on the origin or planning. Kasab's mention of Paki army personnel in his training camp was mentioned.
- Evidence from guns, boats, addresses on the boat, grenades and the wire transfers ( Italy -> N.York, Pakistan->N.York) for equipment on boats ( motor ) show Paki links all over.
- LeT gets about 1 min airtime

Ending note:
- Low tech attacks could be the new modus operandi.
- It could happen in London, Paris or New York
- Metropolitan Police , US investigative agencies have all been to Mumbai to talk to the police and share evidence.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 30 Jun 2009 04:10

rajsunder wrote: It would be great if you can provide some links.

My theory is that if we were able to do that in Mumbai we would have been able to do it in every other part of India (derived from mathematical theorem of induction, if we can do it till n, we can do it till n+1). And we would not have had seen these spectacular success achieved by paki terrorists in India.

Maybe we have such a system, maybe we dont. But I dont think we should be linking open-source titbits of any such system nor its noise filtering mechanisms in public. Not even to unknowingly create a half-assed picture. Such a system will become fair game for everyone from pakis to RTI abusing jholawallas with dollarbills in their pockets

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 30 Jun 2009 11:02

New claims on local role in 26/11 dismissed by police

Praveen Swami

No evidence that Lashkar cell made up of Indian nationals was involved, investigators say

BBC claim appears to lend weight to claims by Hindu nationalist politicians and media

Channel did not peruse footage, though it has cast doubt on credibility of police claims

NEW DELHI: Police and intelligence personnel investigating the November 2008 Lashkar-e-Taiba terror attack on Mumbai have dismissed speculation that a still-to-be-discovered terror cell may have played a role in the massacre.

Broadcast in the British Broadcasting Service’s award-winning programme, Newsnight, the claim appears to lend weight to long-standing claims by Hindu nationalist politicians and in sections of the media.

In April, Pakistan’s Interior Ministry chief Rehman Malik also complained that India had failed to provide information on local involvement in the Mumbai attacks — without which, he claimed, the assault would not have been possible. Despite having key conspirators in their custody since December, Pakistani investigators have not so far named a single Indian suspect.

Mumbai police officials who spoke to The Hindu, though, dismissed the BBC’s claims, saying they thoroughly investigated the prospect that a Lashkar field unit in Mumbai provided tactical intelligence to the assault team — and came up with nothing.

“Minutes after the attacks began,” a senior official involved in the investigation told The Hindu, “the Intelligence Bureau used frequency-scanning equipment to listen in to the terrorists’ conversations with their handlers in Pakistan.”

“Early on,” he explained, “we arrived at precisely the same conclusion the media did — that one or more individuals were providing the terrorists information on the tactical movements of police units.”

But, the officer said, subsequent scrutiny forced the Mumbai police to revise this conclusion. “We sent covert teams to check out buildings from where spotters might have had a clear line of sight on to our movements, but they found nothing other than television crews.”
No data traffic

Electronic intelligence specialists from the Intelligence Bureau, who were monitoring cellphone traffic in the area, also found no voice or data traffic that suggested information was being passed on.

Nor did subsequent investigation throw up any suggestion of incoming or outgoing traffic to the Pakistan-based handlers’ voice-over-Internet accounts from numbers other than those used by the assault team, highly placed intelligence sources in New Delhi told The Hindu.

The Mumbai police investigators say the mystery was resolved only when off-duty officers found time to watch television: the terrorists’ handlers were basing their assessments on the Hindi broadcast medium.

From November 28, following a meeting between the former Maharashtra Deputy Chief Minister, R.R. Patil, and the former Director-General of Police, A.N. Roy, State government officials began calling top television station officials to caution them against the broadcast of sensitive footage. By then, however, the damage had been done.

By the account of Newsnight correspondent Richard Watson, the BBC did not peruse the footage, although it has cast doubt on the credibility of the police claims. “I know the kind of live-shots used in these situations,” he wrote in a recent article, “and they would be unlikely to yield that kind of detail.”

The Mumbai police official said: “We checked the footage against the conversations very carefully, and we don’t think there’s a mystery to be solved. Perhaps the BBC should have looked at that footage too.”
Political motivation?

In his article, Mr. Watson suggests that Indian investigators may have political reasons for failing to pursue Indian suspects.

“Politically,” he wrote, “it would be very damaging for India to discover that local Indian Muslims were involved. “One man has been arrested and charged with providing video and maps of targets but he was in custody for another offence at the time of the attack,” Mr. Watson noted.

Leaving aside the fact that two Indians, not one, are now being tried for their role in the Mumbai attacks, the allegation sits ill with fact. All of the alleged Lashkar operatives being tried in Mumbai for their alleged role in bombing the city’s suburban train system in 2006 are Indian nationals. The police in Delhi, Karnataka, Uttar Pradesh and Gujarat have similarly held Indian nationals for their role in a series of Lashkar-linked urban bombings that began in 2005.

“Why on earth would we want to hide something in this case alone,” the Mumbai police official asked.

AjayKK · Post by **AjayKK** » 30 Jun 2009 12:08

shyamd wrote:One article speculated that it was colaba based businessmen that supported the attacks. Basically, we are groping in the dark. Need to wait and see what turns up

derkonig wrote:^^^
Did the the said businessman also contest elections on BSP's ticket from Mumbai?

December 27, 2008 : Elements of an Inside Job in Mumbai Attacks

Another known associate of Ibrahim’s in Mumbai, Mohammed Ali, is suspected of assisting the terrorists.

The Times of India, for instance, reported on November 28 that according to police sources the Mumbai attack “was enabled by the Dawood Ibrahim gang”, and that “It would not have been possible to carry out a terror operation on this scale without a collaborative local network and this was provided by the D Gang. As the terrorists had entered via the sea, the needle of suspicion is clearly pointing at Mohammed Ali, the new poinstman of Dawood.”

Yet Indian news reports indicate that officials have been slow to act against Hassan Ali Khan, and Mohammed Ali continues smuggling operations out of Mumbai for Ibrahim’s crime syndicate, D-Company, completely unmolested by Indian investigators and law enforcement.

As the November 28 Times of India article observed, Ali “is known to indulge in smuggling of diesel, petroleum, naptha, drugs and arms with impunity and it appears that the terrorists had used his networks to enter the city by the sea route…. Despite having a detailed dossier on him, the authorities have not taken any action against him. What is more worrying is that Ali is believed to have also penetrated naval intelligence.”

A further report from the Times of India on December 4 noted that Dawood Ibrahim is “sitting pretty in Karachi” under the protection of Pakistan and his “hawala channel between Mumbai and Karachi remains busy”. “But central agencies question why the Maharashtra government has not taken any action against the D-company here.”

“‘What’s the point of asking Islamabad to hand over Dawood when we’re not doing anything to destroy his empire in Mumbai and other places in India?’ a senior official asked.”

The article observed that Mohammed Ali “continues to operate with impunity.

Again, on December 11, Times of India reported that “Mumbai police has still not called Ali for questioning”, adding that “Ali is also known to have the backing of two powerful politicians of south Mumbai and that could be the reason why he is still untouched.”

Ali of course, was given a ticket by BSP in the LS elections and managed to get some 20K votes.

dipak · Post by **dipak** » 30 Jun 2009 12:16

shyamd wrote:New claims on local role in 26/11 dismissed by police

Praveen Swami

NEW DELHI: Police and intelligence personnel investigating the November 2008 Lashkar-e-Taiba terror attack on Mumbai have dismissed speculation that a still-to-be-discovered terror cell may have played a role in the massacre.

Mumbai police officials who spoke to The Hindu, though, dismissed the BBC’s claims, saying they thoroughly investigated the prospect that a Lashkar field unit in Mumbai provided tactical intelligence to the assault team — and came up with nothing.

“Minutes after the attacks began,” a senior official involved in the investigation told The Hindu, “the Intelligence Bureau used frequency-scanning equipment to listen in to the terrorists’ conversations with their handlers in Pakistan.”

“Early on,” he explained, “we arrived at precisely the same conclusion the media did — that one or more individuals were providing the terrorists information on the tactical movements of police units.”

But, the officer said, subsequent scrutiny forced the Mumbai police to revise this conclusion. “We sent covert teams to check out buildings from where spotters might have had a clear line of sight on to our movements, but they found nothing other than television crews.”
No data traffic

Electronic intelligence specialists from the Intelligence Bureau, who were monitoring cellphone traffic in the area, also found no voice or data traffic that suggested information was being passed on.

Nor did subsequent investigation throw up any suggestion of incoming or outgoing traffic to the Pakistan-based handlers’ voice-over-Internet accounts from numbers other than those used by the assault team, highly placed intelligence sources in New Delhi told The Hindu.

Seems reasonable steps taken to monitor the voice & data traffic at the spots.

However,

The Mumbai police investigators say the mystery was resolved only when off-duty officers found time to watch television: the terrorists’ handlers were basing their assessments on the Hindi broadcast medium.

and

From November 28, following a meeting between the former Maharashtra Deputy Chief Minister, R.R. Patil, and the former Director-General of Police, A.N. Roy, State government officials began calling top television station officials to caution them against the broadcast of sensitive footage. By then, however, the damage had been done.

There is a long delay between identifying the reason (the news channel broadcasts) and the effective action (cordon off the area, censoring the footage).
It was identified quite early on (may be early hours of 27/11) but full 24 hr or more passed to rectify this situation - meanwhile the telecast going on full steam on all the channels unabated?

I am sure this incident will bring some sense into the media, the administration and the government (sense of urgency)to deal these kinds of situations on a national security level - rather than aim for earning TRP and trying to project the event as big live reality show.
Clearly a new set of guide-lines are needed (self-imposed or otherwise).

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Jun 2009 18:23

rajsunder wrote: A clever cell operative need not contact directly the handler in pak, he just needs to send this info to some one in some other place other than pak and that guy can pass it on to pak

ALL cell, and indeed all phone activity is trackable. even if it is not trackable in real time. In any case the last 2-3 news reports on this forum page suggest that realtime tracking was also done.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 30 Jun 2009 22:52

>>It would be great if you can provide some links.

No online links, sorry. However, a good hint is provided in Shadow Factory by James Bamford.

>>My theory is that if we were able to do that in Mumbai we would have been able to do it in every other part of India (derived from mathematical theorem of induction, if we can do it till n, we can do it till n+1). And we would not have had seen these spectacular success achieved by paki terrorists in India.

This would be true if we knew specifally what to look for. The problem is that often we don't. And the opponents are not fools (not that I don't support the bojitive news thread), but we need to keep in mind that they are not entirely thick. They were trained well enough and probably kept comm silence or kept it innocuous.

Once we get clear targets saturation interception is possible of the entire signal spectrum (that we are aware of). This happened only after the shooting started AFAIK.

The ability to intercept communication does not automatically mean that we can prevent all terrorist attacks. It only means that we will have access to all their communication eventually - some of which will be in real time, but the stuff before will need to be sorted out during the terrorist event or after (depending on the duration of the terrorist event).

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Jul 2009 02:15

X-posted...

krishna_krishna wrote:http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/w ... en/3237557

This link shows more detailed conversation between gunmen and their handlers on mumbai attack. Seems they had an operations specialist guiding them and motivating them.And for the guys seems were poor and extremists probably had brain washed and exceptionally trained.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 01 Jul 2009 16:15

^^^ killer robots

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 01 Jul 2009 21:56

Gentlemen,

Since we are on page 14 of the timeline thread, can someone answer conclusively (or as close as possible) as to what were the exact circumstances/timeline under which:
1) Maj. Unnikrishnan was KIA
2) Hav. Bisht was KIA.

Till now I have read more than half a dozen different reports of how they died (incld. Harinder Baweja's 26/11 book) and still nothing conclusive about the timeline of these parts of the operation.