India-US News and Discussion

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Keshav » 22 Jun 2009 03:11



It's funny how the author spells out his name Barack Hussein Obama.

Regardless, if Obama has so much faith in the Pakistani establishment, its possible that a lot of American intervention tidbits will come out if current "war" comes to an end. I don't think Obama can be so confident if he didn't have some leverage.

Or maybe he does. If you see his remarks on Iran which were very diplomatic, it makes sense. On the other hand, America has absolutely no military presence in that region.

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby R Vaidya » 22 Jun 2009 10:55

Dealing with Declining Empires


http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/prin ... jiEhUwlVY=


The lost horizon of the emperors

By R Vaidyanathan
21 Jun 2009 11:27:00 PM IST

AT every seminar on financial matters these days, there’s one question that lingers — even during the coffee breaks: will the economy recover, and when? And, it isn’t about the Indian economy but that of the US. I reiterate it will take at least 40 quarters — that’s a decade — for America to recover. I tell this, and am shunned — like a swine flu patient.
I still maintain the US is going the banana republic way what with a national debt of more than $10 trillion, which is more than 80 per cent of its national income. Not only that the budget deficit is skyrocketing; it’s expected to reach more than 10 per cent soon. Last year, the US financial regulatory agencies came up with plans of financial support worth $6.8 trillion — comprising temporary loans and liability and asset guarantees. And by the third end of the first quarter of 2009, the financial support programmes reached $13.9 trillion.
The federal deficit as percentage of GDP is now expected to reach more than 10 per cent. There will be furious printing of more treasury bills and notes. The expected inflation is going to rip apart the society and the largest selling item in the last quarter was handguns and rifles. Already intriguing reports have come about attempt to smuggle more than $134 billion in treasury bonds by two Japanese citizens through the Italian border into Switzerland. It could be a ploy by CIA or really a daredevil act by some foreign government to destabilise the global financial system. I am waiting for the creditrating agencies like S&P to downgrade the US economy like other developing countries and prove their independence from the sole superpower. High hopes. Angus Maddison in his pioneering work for OECD on the global GDP share for the last 2,000 years has brought out an interesting fact pertaining to India and China. As early as the 1820s, China (33%) along with India (16%) and other Asian countries had a share of more than 55 per cent in the global GDP. By the late 20th century, it has declined to 29 per cent. The China percentage slid to 12, India’s to 5.
In the next 20 years, India should plan to have a share of at least 30 per cent of the global GDP. These imply that India should be racing ahead. If India grows at 8 to 9 per cent in the coming decade, then it can become the world’s third or fourth superpower.
But it also implies that, parallely, the West should decline in terms of their importance in the share of global GDP and world affairs.
Since the total is 100 per cent, any increased share for India and China would automatically reduce that of the other two.
Unlike the Great Depression of the 1920s, the current crisis for the West is not just an economic crisis. It has a dimension of demography and conflict (ongoing war with radical Islam) to it. Demographic, because Europe is slowly fading away from the global map. It used to have more than 20 per cent of the global population during the First World War, and now has less than 11 per cent. What’s more, it’s expected to shrink to three per cent in as many decades.
The reproductive rate in many European countries is less than 1.5, whereas the stable one is 2.1. In the case of US, the crisis is more severe due to its declining savings rate and a long-term tendency to nationalise families and privatise government.
Social security and Medicare system in US is classic case of nationalising families.
Such a declining Empire is dangerous to deal with. To start with, it does not want to accept the fact that it is a declining Empire.
Plus, it wants to retain its sole power status when it realises that its writ does not any more hold good. It tries to bully India.
Whenever a US official visits India, the beards in J&K become more active. Remember Robin Raphael of the nineties vintage who propped up the Hurriyat Conference? India recalls with anger the role Robin Raphael played during the Presidency of Bill Clinton in encouraging the formation of Hurriyat Conference, the umbrella organisation of moderate terrorists and terrorised moderates. Her only name to fame was she studied together with Clinton. When Hillary comes to India, the level of violence in J&K will increase. I wish someone in foreign office in India plots the correlation between visits of US officials and mob frenzy in the downtown Srinagar.
The declining empire realises that its elbowroom is becoming lesser and lesser with the Pakistan army that owns and controls a country. Islamabad always has a peculiar way of coming to discussion on any issue.
They keep a gun on their own head and argue with others. That is, they always threaten others with catastrophe if money is not given to them. This is the most sophisticated begging anywhere you can see in international relations. Bribing them won’t stop the plotters against the “US Satan”.
The next thing the declining empire does is to cringe and appease. The speech by Obama in Cairo is of that variety. He ascribed every human scientific endeavor to Islamic civilisation. Forget the Hindus who invented zero, forget Ptolemy and forget Copernicus. Just rewrite history. The third thing a declining power does is to pressure others to sacrifice on its behalf to buy peace with bullies. It cannot deal with radical Islam and if the ISI (that is what is critical — not the ten per cent Zardari) needs to be appeased with a piece of J&K, then the US will try to arm-twist India.
Herein comes our ability to understand declining powers.
We must internalise that US is a declining power and our bureaucrats must chant it hundred eight times on a daily basis. We should also remember that USA is very uncomfortable in dealing with democracies.
It’s natural ally is always a dictatorship since they can be “use and throw” friendships.
Dealing with democracies is messy since they talk about a domestic constituency and behave similar to USA. A mirror image of itself is unacceptable to “sole super power”. As India continues to grow at more than 8 per cent — and simply due to the power of compounding emerges as a major power — the desperation of the declining power will be more since our terrorist neighbour who has a the largest begging bowl and highest per-capita AK-47s will blackmail the declining power to appease him to keep peace.
What is in Indian interest is the continuation of civil war in Pakistan for, say, another ten to twenty years — ambient conflict — sort of auto-cannibalism which will be a dynamic disequilibria — situation.
Other option is to have at least three or so states created out of that entity. The concept of stable Pakistan is passé and a mirage and that should be unequivocally communicated to the declining empire.
Remember the last century. The declining British Empire — now it is the sick child of Europe but still with a grand illusion of influencing Indian sub-continent — created havoc by partitioning the land. The current declining empire may be tempted to do something rash to protect itself. And therein lays the challenge for our political leadership and mandarins. Dealing with a declining empire is more difficult than dealing with a stable empire.

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby vsudhir » 22 Jun 2009 15:52

R Vaidya saar,

Nice one! :lol: Not too sure about your call on expected inflation, though.

BTW, babus chanting themantra 108 times....wow, haven't heard that one in a while :lol: :lol:

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 22 Jun 2009 20:58

RV,

Have you considered getting rid of Pakistan as we know it?

In this equation of Indo-US-Pakistan, what real use is Pakistan to anyone? Bet even the US cannot justify it - outside of "integrity" of whatever kind.

No Pakistan, no arm twisting. No Kashmir. A more peaceful region, perhaps that does not march to the US beat, but ..............

No need to wait for 10 years.

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 22 Jun 2009 21:04

NRao, Please see the relevant part in R Vaidya's article on TSP

What is in Indian interest is the continuation of civil war in Pakistan for, say, another ten to twenty years — ambient conflict — sort of auto-cannibalism which will be a dynamic disequilibria — situation.
Other option is to have at least three or so states created out of that entity. The concept of stable Pakistan is passé and a mirage and that should be unequivocally communicated to the declining empire.


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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 22 Jun 2009 21:41

Opps. Sorry.

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby svinayak » 22 Jun 2009 23:11

ramana wrote:NRao, Please see the relevant part in R Vaidya's article on TSP

What is in Indian interest is the continuation of civil war in Pakistan for, say, another ten to twenty years — ambient conflict — sort of auto-cannibalism which will be a dynamic disequilibria — situation.
Other option is to have at least three or so states created out of that entity. The concept of stable Pakistan is passé and a mirage and that should be unequivocally communicated to the declining empire.


It will be a mistake if Indians think that declining empire is looking at Pakistan as just a state.
It is seen as a nation with military prowess and can sustain for a long time - several centuries even though the state is in shambles. The people of Pakistan are seen as necessary for the long term interest even during the declining years of the empire.

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby ShyamSP » 23 Jun 2009 00:29

Acharya wrote:
ramana wrote:NRao, Please see the relevant part in R Vaidya's article on TSP

[quote
What is in Indian interest is the continuation of civil war in Pakistan for, say, another ten to twenty years — ambient conflict — sort of auto-cannibalism which will be a dynamic disequilibria — situation.
Other option is to have at least three or so states created out of that entity. The concept of stable Pakistan is passé and a mirage and that should be unequivocally communicated to the declining empire.

quote]

It will be a mistake if Indians think that declining empire is looking at Pakistan as just a state.
It is seen as a nation with military prowess and can sustain for a long time - several centuries even though the state is in shambles. The people of Pakistan are seen as necessary for the long term interest even during the declining years of the empire.


It is a rouge state in Indian eyes but is a plutonium goose worth preserving than killing for some countries. Those eggs are used to checkmate a few neighbors or used to track some state/non-state rouges that are interested in the eggs. It is even essential for declining empire to preserve older gooses as new investments can't be made to develop newer leverages.

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 23 Jun 2009 02:58

I think India has already started dealing with the US.

MMS's statement while meeting Prez Z, the reversal of the votes for the loan for Arunachal Pradesh at the ADB, the increase in force activties in AP too, the statements of CAS Homi (China being a bigger threat), CofArmy (Pkai nukes need to be capped), IIRC the CofCentral command AF (stating that India will be prepared for a limited war the next time a Mumbai happens) and then the two articles (Walter Ladwig and Iskander Rehman) do show that India has moved out of the shade. Perhaps not yet into the limelight, but getting there.

But, expect Obama to only latch on to the +ve happenings. He rarely even talks about any -ves. That is his MO. And, it seems to be that of others around him too.

IF India wants something done in the region she is on her own for the most part.

On the Indian front I have to assume that the various parties that supported the Congress had to do with Indian position. IF we take a look at most of what I stated above most have happened since the last elections. Congress today appears to be more aggressive than prior to the elections.

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby vsudhir » 23 Jun 2009 06:07


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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby vsudhir » 23 Jun 2009 06:43


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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 23 Jun 2009 07:40



Americans, meanwhile, generally believed that “India should take on an even greater role in regional security to relieve some of the burden currently borne by the United States.”


!!

The report also indicates increasing convergence between the United States and India on Pakistan (once again, similar to my observations): “U.S. views of Pakistan and its role in the war on terrorism are more closely aligning to India’s while, at the same time, India’s economic confidence and focus on broader strategic issues have subordinated Pakistan on India’s agenda.” One U.S. official is quoted as saying: “There is some convergence with India now on how the United States thinks about Pakistan. We are starting to see Pakistan as part of the problem where we did not see that before.” A U.S. think tank scholar adds, “There has been a nuanced change in position. Now the United States is much more in line with Indian thinking, although this hasn’t translated into India playing a big role in Afghanistan at this point. Part of the reason is that the United States was optimistic about Pakistan in 2001, but now it is discouraged. India was right.

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 23 Jun 2009 08:15

Feb, 2009 :: Allies, not Friends
The US and Pakistan will need to recast their awkward relationship

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 23 Jun 2009 14:59


From the above, two points caught my attention. One is:
One U.S. official is quoted as saying: “There is some convergence with India now on how the United States thinks about Pakistan. We are starting to see Pakistan as part of the problem where we did not see that before.”

The above is purely opportunistic. The US always knew what mischief Pakistan was up to. It either condoned or turned a blind eye to or even corroborated in such mischief. Some of these were:
  • Equipping and training the Pakistani army even when it became clear that Pakistan was only gunning for India with the US aid rather than stopping the 'scourge of communism' from spreading. Probably, that was what the US too intended to do thinking that India was becoming a communist country.
  • The US failed to stop the massive genocide in East Pakistan and by failing to even strongly urge the Pakistanis from not going forward with their plans and feigning ignorance of genocide, they may even stand accused of abetting the crime.
  • The US did everything to make Pakistan develop the nuclear weapons and their delivery mechanism.
  • The US encouraged creation of the Taliban and even negotiated with them in Afghanistan.
  • And, after 9/11, the US allowed Pakistan to continue with its terrorism directed against India so long as at least some US objectives were met by Pakistan.

The other is:
One U.S. defence official is quoted saying, “Indians do not like to make decisions. . . "
There is a lot of truth in this.

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 23 Jun 2009 16:38

The US always knew what mischief Pakistan was up to. It either condoned or turned a blind eye to or even corroborated in such mischief.


While that statement is absolutely true, I think the US is beginning to see India's way ONLY because the US is being hurt by the same elements that hurt India fro nearly 20 years now. IF the US was not hurt - even in the future if these elements stop hurting the US, the chances are excruciatingly high the US will go back to her old ways of thinking.

However, India has made progress in other ways and should be able to far better manage the US today than she could say 20 years ago.

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby bart » 23 Jun 2009 16:56

SSridhar wrote:
The other is:
One U.S. defence official is quoted saying, “Indians do not like to make decisions. . . "
There is a lot of truth in this.


Frustrating for the arms dealers no doubt, but not necessarily always bad for India. Babus are only carrying on in the footsteps of the best and wisest:

When I don't make a decision, it's not that I don't think about it. I think about it and make a decision not to make a decision. Inaction is also action. Inaction is the best action.

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby svinayak » 23 Jun 2009 17:46

NRao wrote:
The US always knew what mischief Pakistan was up to. It either condoned or turned a blind eye to or even corroborated in such mischief.


While that statement is absolutely true, I think the US is beginning to see India's way ONLY because the US is being hurt by the same elements that hurt India fro nearly 20 years now. IF the US was not hurt - even in the future if these elements stop hurting the US, the chances are excruciatingly high the US will go back to her old ways of thinking.

However, India has made progress in other ways and should be able to far better manage the US today than she could say 20 years ago.

US public opinion has been moulded in such as way to support Pakistan no matter what from the time of the cold war. This got reinforced after 1971, and also during the 1980s - afghan jihad. When I see the Charlie Wilson's War again and again I see how they built public support to fund upto $1B in war efforts when Pakistan was so distant for the average Americans. This public opinion is being changed but will take time and also it will be difficult. There is sympathy for Pakistan and Pakistan is trying to make sure that it get more sympathy with these daily Taliban attacks. The money and funding support is being driven by the sympathy factor and also a victim image.

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 23 Jun 2009 18:31

Acharya,

The US has no time.

Pakistan is moving faster than the US can think. IF the PA had not "acted" (for what it is worth) the US would be totally confused by now. This "action" has provided some time to re-think, but even that is on a tighter schedule than "tight".

Which is why I have felt that the US needs India - India having thought through all this mess. The US IMHO cannot solve this on their own.

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby JE Menon » 23 Jun 2009 19:28

Is that Booz-Allen report online somewhere in PDF or something.. Will be worth its weight in gold, just for the interviews and quotes...

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby CRamS » 23 Jun 2009 19:55

Is the Booze Allen report worth the piece of paer it is written on? :-).

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby RajeshA » 23 Jun 2009 20:01

CRamS wrote:Is the Booze Allen report worth the piece of paer it is written on? :-).
It is in digital form! No paper!

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby svinayak » 23 Jun 2009 20:18

NRao wrote:Acharya,

The US has no time.

Pakistan is moving faster than the US can think. IF the PA had not "acted" (for what it is worth) the US would be totally confused by now. This "action" has provided some time to re-think, but even that is on a tighter schedule than "tight".

Which is why I have felt that the US needs India - India having thought through all this mess. The US IMHO cannot solve this on their own.


See the Charlie Rose program with Brezenski and Kissinger last month. Brezinski clrealy says that the public opinion has to be changed in US so that Pakistan changes its direction

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 23 Jun 2009 20:19

One thing BRF members can do is use scribd etc to spread the news about TSP in a factual verifiable manner so that it sinks in that TSP must be destroyed. Its not the old Pakistan ally of Cold War but a mutated monster state that suppresses its citizens and is thrat to stability.

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 23 Jun 2009 21:33

See the Charlie Rose program with Brezenski and Kissinger last month. Brezinski clrealy says that the public opinion has to be changed in US so that Pakistan changes its direction


I am glad that, when these yahoos were 60 miles from Isloo, the US did not wait for US public opinion to change to force the PA to "act".

However, IMHO, it was Brezenski and Kissinger that set this view in the US in the first place. I would also like to add Madam HalfBright to that list. So, personally, I do not mind listening to them (and perhaps will take the time to listen to the Rose interview if available), but ....................... I really do not trust these gentle folks.

Forget public opinion, even "leaders" on Capital Hill need to be convinced of this about turn.

But, if you notice the "quick march" has already started - normally it is "about turn, quick march". And, IMVVHO, it is the think-tankers that caused this change of thinking. Reidel IMHO was the foremost. He was the one who tied K to terrorists in the region and when he changed his mind so did Obama. That is when Obama started his "existential threat" (Clinton before the Congress) and then "India is not a threat" was the final piece of advice from the US to the Pakis.

On Brez thinking public opinion has to change - my view is that he is more scared of Islamists than anything else and cannot come out and say that, so .... public opinion. He still would love to keep Pakistan intact for US policy sake. I still think the US would love to roll back (Wal Mart?) to about 10-20 years ago. But for the Islamic threat they would do that. IF they can manage this threat they will IMHO.

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby svinayak » 23 Jun 2009 21:46

NRao wrote:
See the Charlie Rose program with Brezenski and Kissinger last month. Brezinski clrealy says that the public opinion has to be changed in US so that Pakistan changes its direction


I am glad that, when these yahoos were 60 miles from Isloo, the US did not wait for US public opinion to change to force the PA to "act".

However, IMHO, it was Brezenski and Kissinger that set this view in the US in the first place. I would also like to add Madam HalfBright to that list. So, personally, I do not mind listening to them (and perhaps will take the time to listen to the Rose interview if available), but ....................... I really do not trust these gentle folks.

Forget public opinion, even "leaders" on Capital Hill need to be convinced of this about turn.

Everybody including Halfbrights are students of these two fathers of strategies. Every sentence of Brezenski in his interview is a new policy initiative for any US govt. So even if you dont like them it is better you listen to them since US policy usually flows from what these gentle folks say.

http://www.charlierose.com/view/clip/10205
http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/10202

Brezenski is the one who set the policy towards Pakistan before 1980 and it has remained the same since then.

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby CRamS » 23 Jun 2009 21:54

Public opinion, my foot. Public opinion was not sought, it was moulded and manufactured to invade Iraq based on WMD lie, public opinion was not sought, it is being manufactured as we speak on Iran. The TSP RAPE have guboed to white sahibs in private, they are giving everything US wants, albeit with some hic-cups here and there, and thats why no desire on part of US elites to manufacture public opinion. Ditto India. If India falls out of line, watch for Daleeeeet human rights on CNN (similiar to the pompous, crocodile tears being shed for Neda Soltan, Iranian protestor who was shot dead; of course no tears, not even an ounce of compassion for the 1000s & 1000s of innocents who were smart bombed in Iraq).

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Amber G. » 24 Jun 2009 08:54

From newly released audio tapes of Nixon:
Nixon tapes, papers weigh in on fateful days
<snip>
An "exclusively eyes only" memo about a July 1973 meeting between Kissinger and Iran's U.S.-backed dictator, Shah Reza Pahlavi.

Kissinger asked the shah to help arm and defend Pakistan. He said the U.S. was constrained on that front. "If we were to do more, it would create a major domestic problem for us," he said. "The Indians would raise a big uproar. Our intellectuals have a love affair with India. Our policy is to encourage the Chinese to the maximum to put arms into Pakistan. I believe they have done well to date."
<snip>


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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 24 Jun 2009 17:45

Amber G. wrote:From newly released audio tapes of Nixon:
He said the U.S. was constrained on that front. "If we were to do more, it would create a major domestic problem for us," he said. "The Indians would raise a big uproar. Our intellectuals have a love affair with India. Our policy is to encourage the Chinese to the maximum to put arms into Pakistan. I believe they have done well to date."
<snip>


We have to remember that when Kissinger was asking the Iranians to supply arms in circa 1973, there was an US Arms Embargo on Pakistan after the 1965 war with India. Kissinger has also admitted to the fact that the US overcame the embargo by asking the Chinese friends to substitute arms supply on the US behalf. It may also be that the US clandestinely paid for that because they were deeply indebted to Pakistan after Yahya Khan's personal interventions in arranging a meeting with the Chinese in spite of the East Pakistan problem. The US might have also felt remorse about not having helped their friends in their 1971 war with India.

Thus, it is quite obvious now that when the US 'slaps' embargoes on Pakistan, they are all a pretense. We know of how the Pressler Amendment was actually devised cleverly to save Pakistan with the inputs for the many clauses coming from Pakistan itself. The only embargo that the US steadfastly and religiously followed was London Supplier Group (later NSG) recommendations against India.

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby SwamyG » 24 Jun 2009 18:15

If India falls out of line, watch for Daleeeeet human rights on CNN (similiar to the pompous, crocodile tears being shed for Neda Soltan, Iranian protestor who was shot dead; of course no tears, not even an ounce of compassion for the 1000s & 1000s of innocents who were smart bombed in Iraq).

They might try that; but it is not going to be so easy for them to leverage. How much ever Caste, Sati, Cow & Poverty seem to be in the radar of the average Joes; India has not been vilified the same way as NoKo, Iran or others. People are upset about offsourcing (and quality) so there might be some animosity in certain quarters but the brand India has a better visibility in Joe and Jane's head.

If some campaign is launched sometime in the future, I wonder who would step up for India. I bet it is the people who first step up before the GoI does anything.

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby viveks » 25 Jun 2009 10:27

Uncle sam to ho kya gaya hain....this is third governor in trouble in a period of 14 months. All the governors are upto something 'creative'.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... 9453.story

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby suryag » 25 Jun 2009 11:55

One thing i fail to understand is why these high and mighty governors own up their crimes?

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Jamal K. Malik » 25 Jun 2009 17:53

US bill ignores Indian concerns, though puts conditions on Pak
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/US-bill-puts-riders-on-Pak-but-ignores-India-concerns/articleshow/4701066.cms
WASHINGTON: The Kerry-Lugar bill, which triples US aid to Islamabad, seems to have ignored New Delhi's concern about use of Pakistani soil for terror attacks.

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby CRamS » 25 Jun 2009 17:58

Jamal K. Malik wrote:US bill ignores Indian concerns, though puts conditions on Pak
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/US-bill-puts-riders-on-Pak-but-ignores-India-concerns/articleshow/4701066.cms
WASHINGTON: The Kerry-Lugar bill, which triples US aid to Islamabad, seems to have ignored New Delhi's concern about use of Pakistani soil for terror attacks.


Is it diplomacy or what, but why is there no hue & cry by Indian govt against this? Antony wants to talk to US about Taliban and 'threat to world peace', give me a break, India ought to talk to US about LeT and its threat to India. We can take care of the concerns of the world after we are safe and secure.

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 25 Jun 2009 18:17

CRamS wrote:Is it diplomacy or what, but why is there no hue & cry by Indian govt against this? Antony wants to talk to US about Taliban and 'threat to world peace', give me a break, India ought to talk to US about LeT and its threat to India. We can take care of the concerns of the world after we are safe and secure.


I would take this as a gift. The bill had "Indian concerns" in it - and were removed due to pressure from Pakistan.

I would interpret that the Indian concerns are genuine and proceed for an Indian action. Perhaps starting by increasing troops in Kashmir - or just talk of it.

CRamS
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby CRamS » 25 Jun 2009 18:20

NRao wrote:
CRamS wrote:Is it diplomacy or what, but why is there no hue & cry by Indian govt against this? Antony wants to talk to US about Taliban and 'threat to world peace', give me a break, India ought to talk to US about LeT and its threat to India. We can take care of the concerns of the world after we are safe and secure.


I would take this as a gift. The bill had "Indian concerns" in it - and were removed due to pressure from Pakistan.

I would interpret that the Indian concerns are genuine and proceed for an Indian action. Perhaps starting by increasing troops in Kashmir - or just talk of it.


Boss, I would hope so. But with Antony also giving a clean chit to TSP on infilitration, I assume more than Indian action as we would like, on the contrary, he is preparing the ground for a hot date and passionate night of love making with TSP.

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 25 Jun 2009 18:44

CRamS, I agree with the general thrust of what you say but AK Antony has not given a 'clean chit' to TSP. He has simply said that there is a decline in infiltration. In order to retain India's usually impeccable credibility, India has to behave responsibly and be truthful as it always has been. Others might be also monitoring what is happening across the borders independently. However, I agree that India seems to be backtracking from its firm stand of 'no talks'. Our PM and then our Foreign Secretary claimed after the SCO/BRIC meeting that the foreign secretary level talks will focus only on security which no longer seems to be the case. I do not want to accuse them of lying to their own people yet but if true, which it appears to be, that would be a big dent on their credibility.

Nandu
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Nandu » 25 Jun 2009 19:51

suryag wrote:One thing i fail to understand is why these high and mighty governors own up their crimes?

Sanford didn't commit a crime.
OTOH, it would have been impossible for him to continue to hide his adultery, because his wife had already kicked him out of the house.

I think it would be better if the US public adopted a more European attitude towards politicians' sexual foibles, because the current situation makes those in power very vulnerable to honey traps.

RajeshA
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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby RajeshA » 25 Jun 2009 20:17

Nandu wrote:I think it would be better if the US public adopted a more European attitude towards politicians' sexual foibles, because the current situation makes those in power very vulnerable to honey traps.
Yes, Adultery is a matter between you, your spouse and your God (if you have any). By putting their politicians, with human flailings, on a moral pedestal, especially requiring high private morality, the Americans are unnecessarily straining their political system.

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Re: India-US News and Discussion

Postby Dilbu » 25 Jun 2009 21:37



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