War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby malushahi » 30 Sep 2008 10:17

Victor wrote:Methinks the question we need to answer wrt AP is: "can the Chinese occupy Tawang town for even a couple of days?"


Tawang merged into its rightful place - the Middle Kingdom; Namgyal Lhatse, Urgelling and Gorsam Chorten razed to the ground; the Han victor walking all over the Thangkas of the monasteries.. while the impotent desi wimps cower in their knotted chaddis. What else Monsieur Victor? or is that Don Victor..

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby malushahi » 02 Oct 2008 18:06

Even though barely preceptible, this is the first time there is an "official" acknowledgement for a change in posture. Infra-projects are being pushed through faster than before; hopefully implementation will match perception in urgency.

India matching China in border infrastructure: Pallam Raju

Shillong (PTI): India is building infrastructure along the Indo-China border to match the developments on the other side with the Centre approving a 1,850-km Trans Himalayan Highway in Arunachal Pradesh, Minister of State for Defence Pallam Raju said here on Tuesday.

"Centre has approved the Trans-Himalayan highway which aims at providing inter basin double lane connectivity," Raju told reporters here.

The highway will run from Tawang in west Arunachal Pradesh to the state's easternmost tip. The road, close to the border, would give inter-valley connectivity.

"There is immense scope for development in the Northeast. We are building infrastructure in Arunachal Pradesh to match China's," he said.

"The work is expected to begin in two years time," he said, adding that the work undertaken by the Border Roads Organisation along the borders was critical and was to be completed in a time-bound manner, giving thrust to quality.

BRO Director General Lt Gen AK Nanda said the infrastructure along the borders earlier was not improved "by design".

"We did not want to develop the areas because we did not want the enemy forces to take benefit out of it. But now, our approach has changed and we are building it on our capacity, modern equipment and workforce," Nanda said.

In fact, BRO was contemplating on outsourcing its work to civil construction agencies, he added.

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby Nayak » 07 Oct 2008 10:15

Another airbase set to be reopened in Ladakh
Manu Pubby
Posted online: October 07, 2008 at 2325

http://www.kashmirlive.com/story/Anothe ... 70099.html

With incidents of transgressions on the unresolved Sino-Indian border on a high, India is set to reopen another strategic airfield...


Leh, October 6 With incidents of transgressions on the unresolved Sino-Indian border on a high, India is set to reopen another strategic airfield in eastern Ladakh that will allow rapid induction of troops into the region.

Work on reviving the Fukche Advanced Landing Ground (ALG), situated at an altitude of 4,200 metres, barely three km from the Line of Actual Control, is almost complete and the first fixed-wing aircraft is expected to land at the airbase within a month.

The Army, which is keen to reactivate the airbase that is currently only used as a helicopter landing ground, is working overtime to complete the surfacing works at Fukche before the snow sets in. The airfield, which was out to use during the 1962 war, will be reactivated after a gap of almost four decades.

The airbase will consist of an unpaved surface and will be able to accommodate the medium-lift AN-32 aircraft of the Indian Air Force. Once reactivated, it will be the second highest landing field in the world.

“Work on the landing ground is almost complete and we hope to finish it within a few days. The strip will be prepared for landings by fixed wing transport aircrafts,” a senior Army officer said.

Air Marshal P K Barbora, Commander in Chief of the Western Air Command, confirmed to The Indian Express that the Air Force will start trial flights on the refurbished airbase as soon as strengthening works are completed.

The officer said that the landing ground could be used for humanitarian relief works and evacuation in case of natural calamities in the region. “The Army is working on the airfield. They should probably be ready in a month’s time. Once work is complete, the Air Force will perform trials on the landing ground,” the senior officer said.

The reopening of the Fukche airbase comes months after the Daulat Beg Oldi airfield, situated in the same region near the Karakoram pass, was reactivated by the Air Force in May this year. DBO, as it is known, is the highest airbase in the world and was reactivated for maintaining supplies to troops posted on the border.

However, the third major airfield in Ladakh along the Sino-India border, the Chushul advanced landing ground, which is located at a height of over 5,000 metres, will not be reactivated in the near future. A senior Army officer said that reopening the Chushul airbase is not yet on the MoD’s agenda.

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby malushahi » 14 Oct 2008 08:51

No immediate threat from China: IAF Eastern Command Chief
13 Oct 2008, 1722 hrs IST,PTI

KOLKATA: The Air Force does not see any immediate military threat from China, but is doing a 'lot of upgradation' of its bases in the eastern sector to maintain preparedness, chief of Eastern Air Command Air Marshal S K Bhan said.

"There is no immediate threat from China. But we are well prepared. There is a lot of upgradation going on in the eastern sector," Bhan told newsmen after handing over a decommissioned MiG-21 fighter aircraft to the authorities of Kolkata's first theme park Nicco Park, at Salt Lake City.

Stating that deployment of high-capability aircraft in the eastern sector would be completed within the next 10 years, he said the IAF had signed an MOU with Arunachal Pradesh government for upgrading the Advanced Ground Landing sites in that state bordering China.

Earlier, handing over the MiG-21 aircraft to the Nicco Park authorities, he recalled the sterling performance of that class of aircraft in the 1971 Bangladesh war and the 1991 Kargil conflict.

He also expressed hope that the aircraft, to be a permanent exhibit at the Nicco Park, would inspire the youth towards making a career in the Air Force.

Pointing out that the occasion coincided with the 17th anniversary of the park, Nicco group chairman Rajive Kaul said the aircraft would be a big draw for visitors.

Commissioned in 1967, MiG-21s can attain twice the speed of sound. Its weapon system includes a 23-mm canon and two air-to-air missiles and four infra-red guided missiles.

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby ashdivay » 15 Oct 2008 20:45

HMMM INtresting...keep going.

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby sum » 16 Oct 2008 21:24

ashdivay wrote:HMMM INtresting...keep going.

The comment is for?? :-?

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby ramana » 26 Nov 2008 01:07

Take a look at the PRC capabilities in Tibet:

http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpap ... r2939.html

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby Mihir.D » 26 Nov 2008 11:30

Can we discuss possible targets China might try to target on the east coast ? How successful they would be if they are able to get basing rights in Burma or through some other means (SSGN) and how best we would be able to defend against any such operation .

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby ramana » 19 Jun 2009 02:55

X-posted....


Two weeks earlier, J J Singh, former army chief and now Arunachal Pradesh governor, had announced that the Centre would soon add two divisions (about 50,000 troops) to the 10 mountain divisions that already exist for defence against China. The heightened deployment, said Singh, was intended to meet “future security challenges” posed by China. The two additional army divisions, along with artillery, medical, signals and engineering support, will be placed along the disputed Line of Actual Control between India and China, he said.

Soon after, a defence ministry team from Delhi was in the state capital of Itanagar to sign an agreement with the state government for the transfer of eight airfields in Arunachal to the IAF.

The IAF’s sweep, from Ladakh in the north-west to Arunachal Pradesh in the north-east, combined with the additional mountain divisions, form the core of New Delhi’s response to the realisation that defence preparedness against China has to be upgraded.



So what about offence preparedness?

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby ramana » 01 Jul 2009 20:29

If those new mtn divs for offensive ops are located in NE then they give the classic pincer ops(aka hammer and anvil) that RayC educated us about. Should expect PRC to make peaceful noises soon.

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby Gagan » 01 Jul 2009 22:08

The IAF already has plans for 4 advanced landing grounds in Ladakh to be opened, some for An-32 operations. All these are already functioning for helicoptor ops I think.
1. Daulat Beg Oldi
2. Fukche
3. Chushul
4. Nyoma

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby Singha » 01 Jul 2009 22:13

northern sikkim and the area north of the IB there is said to be flat
and suitable for fast moving airland battle.

the chipanda garrisons opp nathu la and jelep la in the triangle between
WB, Sikkin and Bhutan could presumably be pressured and forced to
stage a humiliating retreat if we play cards right.

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby Gagan » 01 Jul 2009 22:16

ramana wrote: Should expect PRC to make peaceful noises soon.

We have to remember, that having all the infrastructure on the ground to our satisfaction is still quite some time off.
BRO is going to start the arunachal roads in two years time. The airport upgradations and deployment will also take 10 years, as per the statement by the Chief of staff eastern command.

This sounds like a very long time.

Till then a window exists for china to indulge in limited border skirmishes.

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby Singha » 01 Jul 2009 23:17

indeed. has any work started on the tunnel below rohtang pass to finally make a all-weather
manali leh route possible ? its vital to reinforce places like fukche and pangong tso region from the south. I wouldnt put it past the PLA to launch a zodiac boat naval invasion down the pangong tso supported by helicopters to spring a surprise.


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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby Jamal K. Malik » 06 Jul 2009 22:08

Buddhism in Tibet undergoing depletion
Buddhist Tibet can stand better against communist China

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby Paul » 02 Aug 2009 07:37


ramana
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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby ramana » 05 Aug 2009 02:25

Ind Exp reports

T72 tanks moved to Sikkim area

And 27 Div moved back to locations from J&K.

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby svinayak » 05 Aug 2009 03:33


Have you seen the maps.
They are advertizing tours inside the Indian borders!

They are providing tours of the Dharmashala in these areas inside India

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby k prasad » 06 Aug 2009 00:44

Acharya wrote:

Have you seen the maps.
They are advertizing tours inside the Indian borders!

They are providing tours of the Dharmashala in these areas inside India


And i'm sure they're making a lot of money taking tourists there.... :D :D :D

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby ramana » 06 Aug 2009 01:04

X-posted..

durgesh wrote:Crouching dragon



Writes about a recent PLA exercise in the region and PLA modernization plans.

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby Klaus » 19 Dec 2009 14:22

Victor wrote:
Since tanks and armored vehicles are not going to be practical in Tibet


Take a look at Tibet from North Sikkim!

Billiard Table!!


About the tanks and other heavy stuff, their engines will have a tough time breathing in those altitudes unless they are modified in some radical way. And getting them to the plateau in numbers is not practical. But we will still need tank-like firepower, hence armed light vehicles--essentially, firepower without the armor. I have not been able to find anything about high altitude tank warfare but then again, Tibet is probably the only place at altitude that is suitable tank terrain.[/quote]



Just wondering, would a modified Bushmaster or any similar Infantry Vehicle fitted with 2 heavy duty guns do the job expected of a tank in the Tibetan landscape?

Btw, the Bushmaster is a vehicle mainly in use by the Australian Defense Force which saw action in Afghanistan and Iraq.

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby Klaus » 19 Dec 2009 14:35

i guess we can learn a lot from Hannibal's campaign against the Roman Empire, when he caught them unawares by creeping on them from the north through the Alps as opposed to the South (via the sea route and Sicily).

The IAF could use the Fakhnor Aini Airbase in Tajikistan in such a campaign, can it not? So can the IA to lift men and materiel to Sinkiang (including tanks in partially assembled state). Provided we get support from the separatists in Sinkiang, we should be able to take out the Chinese highway and attack Lhasa from the north.

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby Klaus » 19 Dec 2009 14:56

i have a humble suggestion:

We could send in a highly discreet Special Ops team of IA/IAF or both through Myanmar to carry out "seek and destroy" missions in the Chengdu military bases/airfields. Got this idea from the movie "Munich" and from Vivek Ahuja sirs scenario page!

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby Lalmohan » 19 Dec 2009 15:54

Klaus, why do you think the IA operates a covert eliphant training facility in Assam?

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby Klaus » 19 Dec 2009 17:12

@ Lalmohan: With ref to Hannibal, i was hinting more at the audacity of his campaign rather than anything else. Besides, i did not know of this facility. Thanks for enlightening me.

Methinks that using the airbase in the CIS nation will give us direct access to a Uighur stronghold from where we can carry out further aggressive ploys. To further this, I'd like all BRFites to post strategies for plotting lines of combat assuming we get unconditional uighur support. After all, they have a lot to gain from a resurgent Tibet, dont they?

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby rohiths » 19 Dec 2009 20:05

I have a plan of my own (mostly a copy of Paki and British plans)
Step 1: Create tons counterfeit Chinese yuan and use it to fund arms and also bribe heavily a lot of Chinese govt officials. (paki plan)
Step 2: Use the opium and heroin generated from Afghanistan and central Asian republics and funnel it into China and create social unrest. (Opium war redux)
Step 3: Create a small well trained force of local Tibetans and Uighurs to destroy key roads and railway lines. The infrastructure linking tibet to mainland is lengthy and insecure and can easily be sabotaged at a few places. (Maoist strategy)
Step 4: Use some of the money generated in Step 1 to buy of western media and make them harp about human rights violations in Tibet.
Step 5: Indian Govt should appear pro-chinese and should support chinese actions in Tibet and the other autonomous provinces and should strongly condemn all acts of terror :evil:
Step 6: Build on step 3 and make insurgency into a mass movement
Step 7: Bribe pakis and put a few terrorist figureheads into Pakistan and put all the blame on them :mrgreen:

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby Lalmohan » 19 Dec 2009 20:31

Klaus - you might also be aware that hannibal had to forcibly subdue several large gaulish tribes in large battles with heavy casualties before he could even get into the alps. his losses in the mountains were also severe. following his initial successes in italy when the romans were disorganised, he was still unable to sudbue rome, and eventually he was forced into the southern marshes where disease and attrition wore his force down. eventually he lost his eye to an insect bite. forced to flee to north africa, the next time the romans came, the previously successful phalanx formation had become obsolete. he died in obscurity in greece.

the elephant training facility is off the beaten track, not many know where it is.

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby Singha » 19 Dec 2009 20:35

how much if at all do tank diesel engines derate at thin air and cold temp of tibet like places?
starting up should not be an issue for soviet origin engines - right from T34 days they have mastered the art of rugged gear that doesnt look pretty or most efficient but works in extreme mud and cold.

but if there is power loss , how much and how does it affect the mobility and fighting tactics of a tank regiment? typically if a tank is slower or needs to face off against superior numbers it needs heavier armour to protect (eg chieftain/merkava).

I think a T72 sized tank but fitted with a modern turret and hunter-killer dual-TI system i.e. Karan-mki (Karan-1 and Arjun do not have TI for commander afaik) and
using a 120mm L55 cannon should be able to shred most things up in tibet while still
retaining adv of lower fuel consumed and less logistical tail than a 'real' MBT.

version of such a vehicle with a twin 30mm cannon for anti-IFV/infantry/soft skinned role could use also useful or else ZSU-23-4 vehicles fitted with TI and ground surveillance radars.

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby Lalmohan » 19 Dec 2009 20:46

Singhaji - there will be a power loss situation. i have experienced it with petrol engines even in moderate altitudes. one can assume that there will be little excess power for aggressive manouevre... not that there is that much space either... the key is as always concentration of firepower and the backup logistics

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby RayC » 19 Dec 2009 21:06

One turbo charges engines in HAA.

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby Lalmohan » 19 Dec 2009 21:38

US Army is testing a lot of non carbon power generation and power management technologies right now, significantly reducing need for diesel and kerosene

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby Klaus » 21 Dec 2009 13:24

Lalmohan wrote:Klaus - you might also be aware that hannibal had to forcibly subdue several large gaulish tribes in large battles with heavy casualties before he could even get into the alps. his losses in the mountains were also severe. following his initial successes in italy when the romans were disorganised, he was still unable to sudbue rome, and eventually he was forced into the southern marshes where disease and attrition wore his force down. eventually he lost his eye to an insect bite. forced to flee to north africa, the next time the romans came, the previously successful phalanx formation had become obsolete. he died in obscurity in greece.


The point you are trying to put across being?

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby Lalmohan » 22 Dec 2009 00:17

^^^ that you have to think widely from many angles

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby Klaus » 11 Jan 2010 16:20

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/45766/china-withdraws-palm-springs-fest.html

Sorry about the slightly unrelated post, however the above article just goes to show that China will go to any extent to impose its will.
A similar analogy is the murderer trying to wipe out all evidence of the crime.

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby Nayak » 10 Apr 2010 14:28

We seem to have inherited genetically weak, intellectually challenged and morally superior spouting mandarins in MEA. Shucks history has shown that wars should not be fought at our door step, we should fighting the chaptays in Tibet, not in AP or NE.

If I was formulating a policy on handling these face saving goons I would -

* Set up training camps across South India, there are enough Tibetans ready to take up the holy cause of defending Tibet. Train them in IED and weapons training.
* Start pumping in weapons and fake cheeni currency in Tibet, we can buy massive amounts of Cheeni hardware from African nations, gives us plausible deniability.
* Ensure that atleast one incident occurs daily in Tibet where the PLA idiots are targetted.

The sun-tzu quoting di(k-smokers will rapidly change their mind of fingering India, when they see the massive amount of body bags coming back.

The chaptays understand only the language of a firm strong kick up their tiny rears. It pisses me off that after meeting the chaptays, all Krishna got was a phone number to call up. And what are we gonna use that for ? To call up and find out if we can get a appointment at a massage parlour or maybe a recipe for noodle which was used as a substitute for vi@gra by Sun-Tzu.

We are facing problems in BD/Nepal/Myanmar, situation is going to get worse once His Holiness Dalai Lama passes away. Those blithering idiot in the gober-mund don't even have a policy in place now, I can imagine the chaos when the vacuum happens down the line.

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby Kavu » 10 Apr 2010 14:40

Nayak wrote:We seem to have inherited genetically weak, intellectually challenged and morally superior spouting mandarins in MEA. Shucks history has shown that wars should not be fought at our door step, we should fighting the chaptays in Tibet, not in AP or NE.

If I was formulating a policy on handling these face saving goons I would -

* Set up training camps across South India, there are enough Tibetans ready to take up the holy cause of defending Tibet. Train them in IED and weapons training.
* Start pumping in weapons and fake cheeni currency in Tibet, we can buy massive amounts of Cheeni hardware from African nations, gives us plausible deniability.
* Ensure that atleast one incident occurs daily in Tibet where the PLA idiots are targetted.

The sun-tzu quoting di(k-smokers will rapidly change their mind of fingering India, when they see the massive amount of body bags coming back.

The chaptays understand only the language of a firm strong kick up their tiny rears. It pisses me off that after meeting the chaptays, all Krishna got was a phone number to call up. And what are we gonna use that for ? To call up and find out if we can get a appointment at a massage parlour or maybe a recipe for noodle which was used as a substitute for vi@gra by Sun-Tzu.

We are facing problems in BD/Nepal/Myanmar, situation is going to get worse once His Holiness Dalai Lama passes away. Those blithering idiot in the gober-mund don't even have a policy in place now, I can imagine the chaos when the vacuum happens down the line.



Exactly, We lost land and treasure by fighting in our homeland over the centuries, about time we took the fight elswhere!

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby Nayak » 10 Apr 2010 14:46

Looks like the Mukti-Bahini training manual has been misplaced post 71. We need to revise and update the version.

While mouthing of platitude of Hindi-Cheeni bhai bhai and signing useless agreements and treaty of friendship, respect and understanding, we should be steadily pumping in Tibetans well trained in guerilla warfare.

Send assorted delegations of wasters consisting of artists, musicians, bollywood bimbos and other media twits, and sing the songs praising the achievements of these chaptays. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Just like our colonial masters, an iron fist in a velvet glove, except this is will be well lubricated with KY Jell.

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby Samudragupta » 26 Aug 2011 08:56

A small question to the Gurus, on the backdrop of the raising of the new strike corps...is there any chance that cold start will be implemented in the Chinese sector also?

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Re: War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment

Postby ramana » 26 Aug 2011 09:53

I odnt like the word Cold Start. How about Running Start with forces in being?


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