Indian Real Estate Sector

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RamaY
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by RamaY »

SwamyG wrote:I have been looking at some properties in Gachibowli area of Hyd/Sbad. I can get a flat for 70L in a high-rise building - Ramky Towers.. Alliance Group has something in Telapur Village area - near Gachibowli in that price range. From an investment perspective, how much growth potential Hyderabad has? If I am putting 70L, I would expect appreciation - but who will & can afford properties 70L+ in the future? In essence who will buy it from me say for 80L (that is just above 10% appreciation - very reasonable in my opinion)? SHQ is hesitant to take huge loans from the banks.

ps: the rates are still @ 3000/ft
hmm... interesting... I own a land across (the road) Oakridge international school (in your Ramky location map). Should I build an Apt complex exclusively for BR folks 8) .. Any idea on the going rate for plots there SwamyG garu...

I heard that you can get an Apt at Rs 2500/ft range near Hitech city area... that could be a better option too with rent potential and immdiate access to city life...
Rishirishi
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by Rishirishi »

Stick on to your land. It will become very valuable the day you need the money,
SwamyG
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by SwamyG »

pradeep: Yes, Mantri actually called me from Hyderabad. These guys have access to some database in USA through their marketing offices in USA. Alliance and Mantri called me out of the blue. I was like how did you get my number? Alliance even had a web conference (that started 30 mins late); poor guys they do put some effort. But they will be reaping crores and crores.

RamaY: I am nobody saar. I don't know the rates. My friend says a decent flat anywhere in Hyd/Sbd will cost about 50L these days. His opinion that Gbowli being around 70L is not bad. Alliance group has a projection of 8 lakh people in that area alone in the coming years.

Regarding the water problem; my father-in-law says "Government will not provide water" as a matter of fact. He says where ever you live, you will have to buy water. Be it Srinagar Colony or Gbowli.

I was looking for 40L property; but everybody in Andhra are talking in crores onlee. My pet theory is Andhra Pradesh (especially the 'Kohastal') has the filthiest rich people in the whole wide world.
Last edited by SwamyG on 14 Jul 2009 18:11, edited 1 time in total.
RamaY
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by RamaY »

SwamyG garu

we all are nobodys onlee :)

Check with you family and friends before you invest. With economy going the way it is going it is like lottery only. But I would Any day recommend Gachibowly or Hitec city area than any other location. At least you will have modern Infra that lasts next 30-40 years.
SwamyG
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by SwamyG »

I visited the Ramky Towers today - Kondapur area. We called the developers, and they sent us a car and sales person. We first went to the site and looked at the model house - 2365 sq. ft. They are quoting Rs3300 per sft. It is negotiable - I think I can get it down to Rs2900 :-))

They are extracting water from the ground for the construction. The towers are 19 floors. The model house looked impressive, but the rooms have no space for storage. Zilch. As expected lots of interior work would have to be done, and storage would have to be built.

The location is good - high connectivity to Financial district, Cyberabad ithyadi.

My questions were: What about water? Were earth-quakes considered while designing? Why the craze for sky-scrappers? Rental potential? Resale value? ithayadi.

For whatever it is worth, this is the gist of what they (sales, finance and some other guy) said: The area (must be Hyderabad) has almost 25,000 IT professionals. Not all folks - especially the out-Staters want to settle in Hyderabad. They have plans for 2-3 years (probably churning), so they prefer to pay rent than buy properties. The rental potential that they had estimated was Rs 10 per sft (conservative). So for a flat of 2000 sq ft. it is > Rs 20,000. The developers were going to pay that amount if the project got delayed. I expect the rate to be little higher. The guy did some mental calculation and came up with 4000-5000 salaried folks who earn more than Rs 1lakh per month. He also came up with a number of flats in the vicnity to be in the range of 2000-3000 onlee. I did not research the numbers, but there is some plausability. Maybe I just wanted to believe him.

The estimate 150 liter water per person a day. So they have approval from Government - so they say. Water source is Manjira. The guy almost quoted all the rivers in the South as the potential sources in the future. He said Krishna & Godavari. I wanted to ask what about Cauvery? But then did not want to get into "South India Water Issues" type of discussions.

He opined people were preferring sky-scrappers as they were the hip thing. They reeled few things like less air & noise pollution above 6 floors. I just smiled. So they scaled down the rhetoric - at least it is better than the ones at ground level. According to them with the sky-scrappetd the developers are able to provide lots of flats and retain acreage for greenery and other facilities. I thought like 1 tennis court for 540 flats :-)))))

Yes, they considered Earth-quakes while designing. They were quoting Rs4300 per sft till the market went down. So they are 30% down. They were more optimistic about India and global economy than I was. They assured me in a year or two their properties will be atleast Rs3800-4000 per sft. I don't blame them for painting a rosy picture. After all they want me to buy from them.

There is a group - Aliens Group that is building 30+ floors 8kms from Gachibowli - near Telapur Villages. Gosh, where are they going to get water for so many folks.

Parts of Hyderabad - Panjagutta, Ameerpet, Jublee Hills, Banjara Hills & outskirts are so different than what I had seen 10+ years ago. Lots of steel, concrete and glass. I suspect Hyderabad has grown exponentially compared to Bengaluru. So many malls skirt the landscape - one bigger and shinnier than the other. Construction workers were everywhere. SOmebody is always constructing something. I shudder to imagine how it must have been when there was the real-estate boom.
Muppalla
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by Muppalla »

SwamyG wrote:Parts of Hyderabad - Panjagutta, Ameerpet, Jublee Hills, Banjara Hills & outskirts are so different than what I had seen 10+ years ago. Lots of steel, concrete and glass. I suspect Hyderabad has grown exponentially compared to Bengaluru. So many malls skirt the landscape - one bigger and shinnier than the other. Construction workers were everywhere. SOmebody is always constructing something. I shudder to imagine how it must have been when there was the real-estate boom.
SwamyG - You are in my home town and so far I did not write anything just to not look as biased :).

You are true and Hyd really grew too much in terms of height and width too. It's diameter is 200km (no exaggeration). Water is problem but only during a month of summer or when there is drought. Currently drought conditions are prevailing as the rains did not come as per expectations. Bringing Krishna waters to the city is happening and infrastructure is being built at a decent pace for that. Regarding Godavari water, I don't know about the current state though there were plans. Both the rivers are flowing thru the districts that are not that far away from the "current" Hyderabad.

Another note - Every big city has something similar to downtown or a place where there will be max rush. In Hyd it used to be Nampally/Koti etc areas but now a days, Miyapur-JNTU and Kukatpalli has max traffic. What that means it the center of the City has shifted.

I bought a home in Kukatpalli area about four years back. Now the real estate is coming back to 2005 rates. Buying now in Hyd is good thing and rates are flat at this time. There are some big builders who are selling at a high cost because of their investment in flora and fauna in the complexes. Aliens group is one of them.
SwamyG
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by SwamyG »

A home? As in a single-family house? The going rates in that area are in crores. Me can not afford that much. As far as the Godavari river goes, the sales guy said he had been to Shirdi last week and saw the construction going full swing to bring Godavari water to Hyderabad. I did not inquire the schedule. I heard the PVNR Expressway is going to open in October of this year. I doubt that. Portions of the expressway are still not complete.

You are correct Hyderabad has shifted. I used to live in Chandrayangutt(DRDO Township ) and Himayat Nagar. Jubliee and Banjara Hills were posh localities almost at the edge of the cities. They were not that crowded, now it is a sea of vehicles, ram, robert and rahim onlee.
Muppalla
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by Muppalla »

SwamyG wrote:A home? As in a single-family house? The going rates in that area are in crores.
Yes it is single family home and I bought it for 40L in 2005. It 2007 peak time, it reched 2Cr. Now if a two bedroom apartment comes for 30L it is considered as cheap. Though the asking rates are at 1Cr for a 250 yard single family if you search decently there are some distress sellers(long drawn ventures by builders) from whom you may get some single family homes for around 50L in and around the outer ring road. But for a visitor like you, it may be difficult. You need to put some foot soldiers there to scan for such things. If you take your time you will still get an affordable and satisfactory home. Try towards patancheru
ShauryaT
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Re: NRI property

Post by ShauryaT »

Haresh wrote:Hello,

Can someone please help me.
My father has passeed away and he has left his property in India to me (as the only son).

How do I go about getting the property transfered to my name ?
I have received so much mixed up advice I am unsure how to proceed.

This is what I have been told:
Option 1:Hire a lawyer in India to deal with our UK lawyer, he will arrange everything in India.
Problem: lawyers in India are corrupt, how can I be sure that the house is not transferred to him or his family or even sold ? There is a Land/Property mafia in punjab that just seizes property.
What do you think????

Option 2: Once probate is granted in the UK, fly to India & have the property transferred in my presence.
I have been advised that I will need the following:
A/ Letter granting probate in the UK
B/ Letter from Solicitor/Affadavit transferring the property to me.
C/Fathers deathe certificate
D/My Passport & birth cerificate

I have been advised to stay clear of Indian lawyers and the legal system.
What is the opinion of members of the board ??
Also as I was actually born in the UK and am a british citizen am I actually an NRI or am I a PIO ?

Any advice would be appreciated.
Here is a link, that will give you some answers. I have been told they are correct. http://www.indianground.com/nri/nri-faqs-rbi.aspx

On the lawyers question. You can believe that every walking talking Indian is corrupt or act with confidence but due diligence and not panic.
See if you can hire a lawyer, through someone you trust. Meaning, someone you trust can vouch for a competent lawyer. Another way is to hire a "large" firm from India, who has a tie up with a large international attorney firms. You will pay, but unlikely you will be duped.
Once you find someone, proceed with some care.
SwamyG
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by SwamyG »

>>>Yes it is single family home and I bought it for 40L in 2005. It 2007 peak time, it reched 2Cr.
Nicely done. Kya baath hain.
Satya_anveshi
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by Satya_anveshi »

SwamyG wrote:>>>Yes it is single family home and I bought it for 40L in 2005. It 2007 peak time, it reched 2Cr.
Nicely done. Kya baath hain.
The notion of "value" of a real estate piece in India is flawed and the definition of "market" too I guess.

For example, try selling that piece of real estate above for even 1Cr.

Will you have buyers?
Can you take a bank loan on your 1.6Cr equity you have built?
Is there any formula to arrive at the 2Cr figures?
Have there been ANY (even 1) property bought and sold at that price in that locality?


My sister bought an apartment in Safilguda area for about 10/12L a few years ago. She was claiming that it has now reached over 50L. I was telling her, if I were you, I would sell it and invest the money in Fixed deposit at 10.5% (going rate at that time). This will give her cool 40+ thousand as interest with which she can rent another property with double the space in the same area and she will have more money to make quarterly trips to all places in India she would like.

I kept telling her..sell your property...then answer came...who will buy it :P ?

The value is from broker->end customer. End customers will be lucky if they get 20-30% "real" appreciation/benefit.

Isn't it true in general?

I sometimes feel that these India real estate brokers and mafia should be let loose on the wall street to fight it out with the investment bankers. :rotfl:
Muppalla
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by Muppalla »

Satya_anveshi wrote:My sister bought an apartment in Safilguda area for about 10/12L a few years ago. She was claiming that it has now reached over 50L. I was telling her, if I were you, I would sell it and invest the money in Fixed deposit at 10.5% (going rate at that time). This will give her cool 40+ thousand as interest with which she can rent another property with double the space in the same area and she will have more money to make quarterly trips to all places in India she would like.

I kept telling her..sell your property...then answer came...who will buy it :P ?
My father did exactly same after I bought the 40L home. He moved into the home from the Apartment he owned in Dilshuknagar. He sold it for 20L in 2007 which he bought for 7L in 1998. The FDs for senior citizens is pretty good. He is very happy man.

Added later: You are right. The borker took 3L out the 20L for the sale. Selling on your own is extremely difficult unless you are in the Real Estate market.

In India the value never drops but sale never happens until the market revives. Different funda for those who only know the western system.
SwamyG
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by SwamyG »

Satya: Very good points.

I keep asking similar questions to my Father in law. If I take loan and buy something worth 70L, who is going to buy it from me? I would rather buy something for 30L and sell it with a decent profit. SHQ is worried in taking so much risk. I rather buy plots for 6-10Lakhs.
Muppalla
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by Muppalla »

SwamyG wrote: I rather buy plots for 6-10Lakhs.
I am always scared of doing that unless you have abilities to look after them regularly. My preference was to go for some decent walled community and buy a home there even if it is pricey. The hassles of underworld and mafia is real in HYD and especially the urban land is easy for poaching.
Satya_anveshi
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by Satya_anveshi »

SwamyG wrote:I would rather buy something for 30L and sell it with a decent profit.
SwamyG, Call me conservative...I find it even 30L to be a bit high.

I mean look at this:
Muppalla wrote:He sold it for 20L in 2007 which he bought for 7L in 1998.
In 2007 peak, this plot was sold for 20L (minus 3L broker comm). Would you get this property in Dilshuknagar from broker for that price. He would have easily asked you 50L (even now forget 2007).

For 30L, I would rather buy 12-15 acre land (with borewells) where I can get 2 paddy crops and 1 other. It is easily possible in Telangana from where I belong. All you need is someone to watch, know people in that village, and contract farming for a few years (10 years) when you can exit with huge profits.
Muppalla
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by Muppalla »

Satya_anveshi wrote: In 2007 peak, this plot was sold for 20L (minus 3L broker comm). Would you get this property in Dilshuknagar from broker for that price. He would have easily asked you 50L (even now forget 2007).
The broker arranged the transaction between the seller (us) and a buyer. His commission is 3L which is alway negotiable. Which mean as a buyer you can approach a broker. The cost is dependent on the negotiations and the "home pitch" of the buyer. The costs are hyped exponentially by various unknowns and also to an extent by the banks like ICICI which conducted stupid house loan melas in 2005-2008. Too many people bought at peaks and they are not able to sell but they cannot sell at a lower cost. There is also a substantial inventory of foreclosed houses in the city at this time. You have to be smart and one with patience to find a right dwelling at a price you like to buy. I am asking SwamyG ji to shop with patience rather than settling down for something small.
Satya_anveshi wrote: For 30L, I would rather buy 12-15 acre land (with borewells) where I can get 2 paddy crops and 1 other. It is easily possible in Telangana from where I belong. All you need is someone to watch, know people in that village, and contract farming for a few years (10 years) when you can exit with huge profits.
This is again a "home pitch" issue. I don't think a lot of non-natives can do this kind of thing. NRIs are not elgible to buy agricultural land. You need to buy in on the name of your parents or family members who are elgible.
CalvinH
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by CalvinH »

Satya_anveshi wrote: I kept telling her..sell your property...then answer came...who will buy it :P ?

The value is from broker->end customer. End customers will be lucky if they get 20-30% "real" appreciation/benefit.

Isn't it true in general?
Not sure about HYD but buyers are there for a reasonable price. High salaries, DINK families etc are making a lot of people to buy properties for living not to forget NRIs with deep pockets who can wait sometimes for the returns.

The x times increase in y years is a common story in RE. If one home in the locality sells for x price in yy years then it sets the benchmark and no one wants to sell it below that. A lot of people have bought the properties at cheap prices and can wait for that one buyer to turn.
SwamyG
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by SwamyG »

Satya:
Now I need to rally chastize you :-) If you think 30L is high, you are out of touch with reality. I had bought a simple flat in Bangalore 10 years ago for 9L. My parents had bought a really really really simple sada flat in Chrompet, Chennai for 9L few years ago. That is the last two transactions I have ever heard in my family circles that were less than 10L. All property transactions in the Chrompet area have been more than 25/30L. And Chrompet is in the outskirts.

My philosophy when it comes to real estate is own multiple small valued properties in several cities. If I own them outright (which I do), then the income they generate is good for buying milk and vegetables onlee. I think small. So if I get something cheaper I would go for it.

I have my father-in-law as the foot soldier. Surely he has my interests in his hearts :-) I hear that in Tuticorin when fishermen dive into the sea to retrieve oyster pearls, their legs are tied to a rope and the brother-in-law usually holds the rope on the boat.

As an NRI, I can not own farm lands.
Satya_anveshi
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by Satya_anveshi »

SwamyG wrote:Now I need to rally chastize you If you think 30L is high, you are out of touch with reality.
Actually I am kind of aware of reality although I admit I find it difficult to accept it. I was inches close to buying 3 BHK Sobha property in Bangalore (property Magnolia on Bannerghatta) and at that time going rate of 50L + closing and everything. 4 BHK was quoted 75L+ closing etc.

During that time, I did review a lot of properties by Mantri, Purvankaras, Gopalans, and others. Situation was no different in Hyd.

However, my point is that after you buy something like that and even though per sqft rate goes up, you, as an end customer will not be able to sell it to realize the appreciation. I know some friends were lucky to cash in appreciation because they had plots and not flats. Anything above 30L, the gains will be paper or word of mouth gains and cannot be easily converted to cash. That really is my point.

Normal person or family (I guess) who are willing to spend 50L+ in India will rather jack up their budget and buy a totally *new* apartment than an old one.

BTW: I ended up dumping that plan, invested on myself, came back here and now kick'ing ash. I am not complaining of ROI of my decision :)
Singha
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by Singha »

flippers usually purchased in pre-launch prices @ hyped up in-demand-among-nri properties
like sobha halli in ORR, then sold off right after handover after doing woodwork at some profit. eg buy in @ 2000/sq ft in 2003, sell @ 3500/sq ft in 2007.

needless to say we are unlikely to see such price appreciation until the Mahdi is reborn.

however lots of owners are renting it out in sobha - many are rich people from other parts of south india and even mumbai and delhi. their goals are long term cash flow and inheritance I guess.
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by Bade »

Normal person or family (I guess) who are willing to spend 50L+ in India will rather jack up their budget and buy a totally *new* apartment than an old one.
This is absolutely true. All my cousins have built new homes even if far from cities. You never hear of someone who bought an old home to live. Most buy really old homes for the value in the land, and then demolish the old structure and build anew. Indians do not like to buy old home to live in them.

A friend bought a 3bd flt in jayanagar for closet to 40L, claims it is worth 1 crore now. But none are selling, it is fully occupied with rentals.

I bought a flat in Cochin for the almost the same amount, but in a more better location. Even there the asking for units by flippers was close to a crore, but do not know what it was sold for. No one will tell you for good reasons. :mrgreen: So the price is for all purposes unknown as was said here already.
Singha
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by Singha »

people brag about success stories but all failure is hidden (even from close friends/family).

news for Vina: PA is finally returning cancellation $ to people (after making them wait 4-6 months) because they got around 40 new bookings in cantt in June - not clear if T3-T4 or villas - I suspect T3 because foundation is finally done there (way in the back near wipro). so new FATA scout troops replaced the old deserters. T2 construction is peace, progress and deveropment for now. eta jan/10.

sasken who are awaiting completion of the honeywell tech park have been put up in a
temp project office warehouse kind of outfit :mrgreen:
SwamyG
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by SwamyG »

Satya gaaru: I totally agree with your point. Just that low prices are far far away from the places the city is expected to prosper and grow.
John Snow
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by John Snow »

Any NRI holding land in India will come to know that he is holding "Former Land'

Swamy G garu there is road from Medchal Highway connecting Military prision in tirmalgherry road. On this way you will find Military Dairy Farm opposite to that we had Godrej Co perative housing society Land of 11.5 acres illegally occupied by Cong I goondas, we went upto SC we won but we cant physically go there...

I spent Rs 85,000 of my provident fund for about 600 sq yds in 1984. Now I am NRI owning Former Land.

( I feel so stupid when I hear Dawood bahi owns land all over in Mubai and prime real estate, when I could not hold on to 600 sqyrds). The whole 11 acers is still wide open area kids playing cricket matches.

Its right behind ICRISAT colony... :(( :(( :(( :(( Bhooo


But on the brighter side I have a paper registered to me , which I offer to anybody for 85000 :mrgreen:
Paul
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by Paul »

their legs are tied to a rope and the brother-in-law usually holds the rope on the boat.
I hope you the one whose sister the diver has married. If it is the other way around, all bets are off.
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by SwamyG »

Snow garu, you are throwing water on my plans :cry: I was thinking to buy some plots. Not worth it?
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by Singha »

worth it only if you can [a] buy in some well developed official area (like a BDA plot) in the middle of town, wall it, label it and have someone periodically keep an eye and pay property taxes every year or a guarded pvt layout with demarcated plots where people just cant walk in and also have someone visit it occasionally and pay the property taxes in local panchayat/revenue office.

if you just buy some plot in a open outlying area or dont have anyone to visit it occasionally dont get into this game....

loyal and chalaak local relative is a must if you are out of town, preferably close blood relation

also think carefully if you will ever return to live in India, if not pls dont bother with his maya moh of owning land in india for old age, prestige, rodina love, n=n+1 r2i etc or just because lots of NRIs own flats here. keep the money for paying off the stuff that will be chargeable there in the coming decades but which are now free ....

there are enough empty plots and empty mansions in koramangala of NRIs who
buy and build in a rush, yet live forever abroad and die there. only the chowkidars are left to guard the dusty relics of dashed hopes.

if you want to come, most welcome to come, if a relative oldie like parent can
adjust, I dont see why even teenage kids cannot be made to adjust. how do kids born and brought up India go there in adulthood and adjust? likewise kids born abroad will have to adjust to living in new centers of growth worldwide.
they will lose the american accent in a year and take on pukka south indian english accent.
Muppalla
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by Muppalla »

SwamyG wrote:Snow garu, you are throwing water on my plans :cry: I was thinking to buy some plots. Not worth it?
You can buy plots if they are in the walled area and with definite plans to develop and a developer taking care of all the plots. In HYD buy those plots that are HUDA approved ( they changed the name of HUDA after the formation of Greater HYD - chech that). Verify to the last detail as you will not be seeing it regularly once you leave the place. These plots will be pricey when compared to the actual land value but worth it especially if you are an NRI.
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by Bade »

also think carefully if you will ever return to live in India, if not pls dont bother with his maya moh of owning land in india for old age, prestige, rodina love, n=n+1 r2i etc or just because lots of NRIs own flats here. keep the money for paying off the stuff that will be chargeable there in the coming decades but which are now free ....

there are enough empty plots and empty mansions in koramangala of NRIs who
buy and build in a rush, yet live forever abroad and die there. only the chowkidars are left to guard the dusty relics of dashed hopes.
What you say singha saar is true for NRIs who are in the 60+ age group as of now. But for us who are 20+ years younger, desh will be the only solution for retirement if one does not have a few million dollars in the retirement kitty by the time one is 60 years of age.

Many NRIs who are not IT Vity big shots, spend a lifetime of productive years in graduate school pursuing PhD and post-doc are struggling. Some do not even own homes, if you live in places like the Bay area. It is only the IT-Vity types who seem to have hoarded enough if they got a head start from starting work in early 1990s from my generation. Others are making ends meet only and trying to hold on to a job meanwhile. The additional income from spouse is the only redeeming factor and contributing to the savings.
Rishirishi
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by Rishirishi »

Bade wrote:
also think carefully if you will ever return to live in India, if not pls dont bother with his maya moh of owning land in india for old age, prestige, rodina love, n=n+1 r2i etc or just because lots of NRIs own flats here. keep the money for paying off the stuff that will be chargeable there in the coming decades but which are now free ....

there are enough empty plots and empty mansions in koramangala of NRIs who
buy and build in a rush, yet live forever abroad and die there. only the chowkidars are left to guard the dusty relics of dashed hopes.
What you say singha saar is true for NRIs who are in the 60+ age group as of now. But for us who are 20+ years younger, desh will be the only solution for retirement if one does not have a few million dollars in the retirement kitty by the time one is 60 years of age.

Many NRIs who are not IT Vity big shots, spend a lifetime of productive years in graduate school pursuing PhD and post-doc are struggling. Some do not even own homes, if you live in places like the Bay area. It is only the IT-Vity types who seem to have hoarded enough if they got a head start from starting work in early 1990s from my generation. Others are making ends meet only and trying to hold on to a job meanwhile. The additional income from spouse is the only redeeming factor and contributing to the savings.
on the one hand, India may become a better place with a better economy. That may make it attractive. But think about it. Imagine your kids being brought up in US, finding an US spouse. Imagine you have lived in US for 30-40 years. Your kids, grandchildren and frinds are all in the US. Then what are you ever going to come back for?
Bade
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by Bade »

What is of interest to note is that the pure IT-Vity types who ventured out after a BTech or even an MSc to this hot area of employment in the 90's are all back in India in senior positions. On my SHQ's friends/class mates circle majority returned to India ten years back and are all doing well. So friends are all gone and back home in my case as well as SHQs. :) As for future relatives when kids get old enough to get married, it is all too much into the future and the relations going by what I see around me, are not going to be great that our continued presence is required...(refer to L&M thread topics :mrgreen: ) I have myself lived for long in the US without any relatives visiting me regularly so I do not see any need for my kids to feel this urge that I need to be around either for a daily soiree.
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by Singha »

>> Then what are you ever going to come back for?

makes sense if you have some brothers and sisters who are on good terms and
based in india. parents wont be around when we reach 60. sometimes relations
which are bit formal do get better - just a function of spending more time with
people.

Bade sir, I see your point. even itvity abduls are in for a rude shock except those
who started in early 1990s and cashed out ESOPs by 2001 to pay off their homes
100%. I can clearly see some acquantainces doing not too well, but trying to save
face....for one thing the annual exotic holiday seems to be on a diet and so are
long drives going by orkut updates
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by Bade »

All this feelings about going back home for retirement can vary from person to person. As for me, I think it is in the genes. It is something my dad did after working for 40+ years outside what he considered home but within India. So I may have some of the same desire too for retirement, though in my case I could retire anywhere I have lived be it Calcutta or Bangalore or even Kerala. Will not feel too much of an outsider anywhere in India, even in places I may have never lived before.

But US after almost two decades and all its comforts never feels like home. It may be just me. It can only be my karma-bhoomi. So retirement here is not an option. Visiting future relatives and few friends who may continue here is possible. Many friends from grad student days I know feel the same way. The main reason many of us came here was for acads. In due course, life's events forced on us to take gainful employment as we entered grahastha stage, then the main attraction or purpose of the journey to US is lost and with advancing time there are no moorings to this place. The journey and the experience is a little different for the IT-Vity ones I am sure from personal conversations with friends from that circle.
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by SwamyG »

Ah....the discussion is getting around R2Iing. I am thinking of buying plots in Hyderabad, far far away. Yesterday I visited with my FIL a development property 200acres in all past Chilkur. There is nothing out there. The 8-lane Outer Ring Road, goes down to 4 lanes, then 2 lanes, then 1 lane, then no road and finally mudpath through villages. The current home minister's of AP's town is near by and the developers are creating studio flats. It will take at least 5-6 years for anything worthwhile to develop. I can wait that long.

As far as R2Iing, I will because all my blood relatives are in desh onlee.
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by Hari Seldon »

Am r2i of recent vintage. Back in bhagyanagaram, found a decent job back on desi shores. Won't say re-adjustment isn't dicey. city i grew up in is so different now, can hardly recognise but bits and pieces of it here and there as voices calling from far away.

Was shopping for a car, started tall and gradually with much research and 2nd, 3rd opinion taking realized, better to go for low end gaadi that can be had without car loan jhamela but good time to take a cautiously leveraged plunge into real estate soon. Looking for a sufficient (1500 sqft odd) 3BR flat from a reputed developer a little outside the happening itvity sector even.

Per sqft prices in the happening sector crashed 40% or so in the last 12-18 months. Its gonna be up here on, esp as I fully expect the dllar to strengthen in the near to medium term before it gets too dicey to predict anymore. Not looking at anything more than a 1.5x current gross income to restrict leverage. Debt averse like anything since moi stay in massaland.

And then i hear that with the welcome reduction in I-T, pranabda also proposes doing away with I-T exemption on home loan amount in 2011. More and more diceyness added into the mix.
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by Singha »

do you know if banks finance part of a car or they insist on financing onlee 100% ? if I buy a new car would prefer to loan around 30% only. if thats no possible, I need to get on a diet of aloo and jowar roti for a year to save up.
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by Bade »

Singha, they do. I financed only 50% of the value of a new car in 2006 with ICICI.
As far as R2Iing, I will because all my blood relatives are in desh onlee.
Swamy, all my blood relatives outside of Kerala are in Madras and Mumbai. I would always like to stay away as far as possible to keep them in good relations. :)
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by Chinmayanand »

Home loan rates - Beware of arithmetical jugglery

Different banks quote their interest rates differently. Some might quote rates with an annual rest, while others may quote rates with a monthly rest. In every case the bank will usually quote the ‘annualised rate’, which is obtained by multiplying the rate per rest period into the number of rests per year. For example: In the case of a monthly rest with 1 per cent interest being charged per month, the annualised rate = 1 per cent* number of months in a year = 12 per cent.

Of late, home loan interest rate has been a concern for many due to its volatile behaviour. Banks and institutions often resort to arithmetical jugglery so as to mask the real rates and show attractive rates. So, it is good to approach a bank armed with the knowledge about different calculations of interest rates.

Interest rates can be calculated at a flat rate keeping the outstanding amount (i.e, the amount on which interest is calculated) constant throughout the loan tenure or at a reducing balance rate, which lowers the outstanding amount as the loan is paid back.

What’s flat rate?
For instance: If you took a loan of Rs 10,000 with a flat rate of interest of 10 per cent over five years, then you would pay Rs 2,000 + Rs 1,000 (ie, 10 per cent of the loan) = Rs 3,000 every year. Over the tenure of the loan, you would end up paying Rs 15,000.

What’s reducing balance rate?
If instead of a 10 per cent flat rate (in the above example), you were charged a 10 per cent annual reducing balance rate, you would pay Rs 1,000 as interest in the first year, Rs 800 as interest in the second year, Rs 600 as interest in the third year, Rs 400 as interest in the fourth year and by the last year you would only pay Rs 200 as interest. That is, over the tenure of the loan you would end up paying Rs 13,000 ie, Rs 2,000 less than you would have paid with the 10 per cent flat rate.

Tip: An X per cent flat rate is always more expensive than an X per cent annual reducing balance rate. So insist that the bank quotes you a reducing balance rate for all kinds of loans.

What’s ‘rest’?
The term ‘rest’ comes into the picture only for reducing balance loans. In a reducing balance loan with each EMI paid, the outstanding loan amount is recalculated. A ‘rest’ is the period in which the bank recalculates the loan amount outstanding based upon the amount of loan paid back through Equated monthly installments, i.e. EMIs. Note that this is also the periodicity of compounding.

Rests can be annual, monthly, weekly and even daily!

Let us understand how the difference in the rest period affects the loan taker.

Annual rest: The bank recalculates the outstanding loan amount at the end of 12 months. That is, even though the borrower pays his EMI every month and the loan balance reduces every month, the outstanding loan amount is not adjusted till the end of the year.

Monthly rest: The bank recalculates the outstanding loan amount at the end of each month. That is, the outstanding loan amount on which the interest is charged goes down every month.

Tip: An X per cent annual reducing balance rate is always more expensive than an X per cent monthly reducing balance rate. So bargain for your loan to be calculated on monthly rest basis.

Let’s look at a simple illustration of annual rest versus monthly rest. Assume two scenarios:
1. You borrow Rs 5 lakh at a 12 per cent annualised interest rate at annual rests
2. You borrow Rs 5 lakh at a 12 per cent annualised interest rate at monthly rests.

Annualised interest rate 12 per cent
Loan tenure in months 240
Loan amount Rs 5,00,000
Type of Interest Rate Annual Rest Monthly Rest

Number of compounding periods 20 240
Interest rate in each compounding period 12 per cent 1 per cent
EMI Rs 5,578 Rs 5,505
Total interest paid Rs 8,38,788 Rs 8,21,303

As detailed above, it is clear that you would end up paying less as interest with a monthly rest than you would with an annual rest. That is, you will always pay more interest on an X per cent annual rest rate than you would on an X per cent monthly rest rate.

Tip: Different banks quote their interest rates differently. Some might quote rates with an annual rest, while others may quote rates with a monthly rest. In every case the bank will usually quote the ‘annualised rate’, which is obtained by multiplying the rate per rest period into the number of rests per year. For example: In the case of a monthly rest with 1 per cent interest being charged per month, the annualised rate = 1 per cent* number of months in a year = 12 per cent.

To compare loan offers from multiple banks, you need to calculate the total amount of interest you would pay for each offer. This will enable you to compare offers even if their interest rates are quoted differently.
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Post by AnimeshP »

X-posting from Indian Economy thread ... any insights would be greatly appreciated
g.kacha wrote:I have a question for the economics guru-log here ...
When the US housing bubble blew up resulting in the current world-wide recession/depression, India's economy took a hit but seems to be bounding back. One of the areas most impacted in the Indian economy was the real estate sector which resulted in some price correction happening in residential market in India.

Now, there is a general consensus amongst the D&G folks (who were right about the US housing bubble) that we are about to witness a similar blow-up of the CRE in the US.

My question here is that what further impact do the guru-log foresee on Indian real estate market with the CRE market in the US blowing up? The reason why I am asking is that I am looking at buying an apartment in India but am not sure if the prices in Indian real estate will go down further or will they rebound? Am looking at gathering some information so that I can make up my mind either ways.
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