India's Sharm-el- Sheikh Harakiri...

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Jul 2009 16:48

I can't believe it.

'Terrorism is a threat to both countries. Action on terror will not be linked to the composite dialogue,' said the joint statement.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 16 Jul 2009 16:57

Game over. Sad. The next 26/11 won't change anything either. Wonder why it hasn't happened yet, in fact.

Recall the criticism of NDA for all that Parakram buildup. At least UPA has spared us taxpayers the expense of a military buildup which would endup where we are today anyways.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 16 Jul 2009 16:58

I feel like killing myself today because the blood of fellow citizens has been sold to the devil by this whole lot bunch of losers.

What message is it sending out , that anyone can come from TSP and kill our people , sure we'll create a ruckus initially but in the end we'll be bobbed down into submission and go back to square one , all that rhetoric was for nothing.

This is not acceptable , just not acceptable - I hope the opposition create huge noise over this in parliament and somehow get the govt. to climb down from this very compromising situation.

As an Indian , I feel cheated by own establishment.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 16 Jul 2009 16:59

"Game over. I lose You Win"

sum · Post by **sum** » 16 Jul 2009 17:05

Wow, the very next post of my rant is confirmation that its all over (dreams of teaching Pak a lesson for its brazen audicity)!!!

I'm off to cower in a dark corner till the next open Paki attack (maybe this time by uniformed TSPA personnel) happens and we again start hearing the meaningless "All options are open" statements.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Jul 2009 17:08

Frankly, India deserves what it gets from Pakistan day-in and day-out.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 16 Jul 2009 17:11

I am sorry we have MMS and the congress party at the helm, who was expecting different and why!!

I am amazed guys, the nuke deal, the climbdown at WTO etc etc.. are all as expected and yet we are surprised.

----

The only hope is that there is some deep long term Chankian thinking considering all the great geo-political considerations which are not visible to twits like me.

May it be so O Ma may it be so.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 16 Jul 2009 17:11

I am still looking for silver linings. Hard to find!

I guess GoI is so damn Chanakyan, that we mortals are all frogs in the well in comparison, and hence cannot appreciate the Government's policies. {Sanku, you beat me to my thoughts! Now that depresses me even more!}

I am going to migrate from BRF now. All this time here, and I am still too stupid to understand our own leaders.

tripathi · Post by **tripathi** » 16 Jul 2009 17:11

^^dont worry about next terror attack.As trailer is already over on 26/11.next there will be full movie release.so people buy the tickets for fans show before release...AOA

archan · Post by **archan** » 16 Jul 2009 18:08

Relax. Have a non-aligned (Sthith-Pragya) attitude.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 16 Jul 2009 18:17

Manmohan Singh is supposed to give a news conference soon!

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 16 Jul 2009 18:23

Sthitha - yes. In what though?

However, not to worry. GoI has a new trick up her sleeve.

Mumbai under threat: Fighter jets to shoot LeT ships before attack

Before you get toooooo excited about "fighter":

The daily reports that the Coast Guard will now employ Dornier aircraft fitted with 12.7 mm guns and ships fitted with 30 mm field guns and anti-aircraft guns to shoot down enemy ships or smaller vessels harbouring terrorists. This historic decision was made at a closed-door meeting early this week, after an intelligence alert warned of an LeT attack from the high seas, targeting key installations in Mumbai.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 16 Jul 2009 18:26

NRao wrote:Mumbai under threat: Fighter jets to shoot LeT ships before attack

This historic decision was made at a closed-door meeting early this week, after an intelligence alert warned of an LeT attack from the high seas, targeting key installations in Mumbai.

What else would any other nation do?? I doubt even WKKs would think otherwise.

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 16 Jul 2009 18:33

What else can one expect short of a complete sell out of Indian interests by the dhimmis in power? Its MMS's second nature to sell out national interests. Cuba, and now Egypt. Not to mention the nuke deal & foreign policy.
But then again, if the people are uncomfortable with Hindutva & nationalism, what else will we get apart from dhimmi traitors.

Bhima · Post by **Bhima** » 16 Jul 2009 18:48

Bend over SDRE

The cold hard fact is GOI is run by economists that have all eyes on the economy. This government has been given the mandate of the people for development and poverty eradication. Security be damned. It is nothing to be surprised about but is certainly worth lamenting. Those who can afford it should travel in bullet/bomb proof 4x4's and arrange Z++++ security that is if you really have to go out. This is no time for joking but if I don't laugh I will cry.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 16 Jul 2009 18:50

India, Pakistan Agree to Share Intelligence Information

NEW DELHI, July 16 -- India and Pakistan agreed Thursday to increase communication and information-sharing in an effort to prevent future terrorist attacks, and said dialogue was the only way forward in the wake of violence such as November's siege in Mumbai.

The leaders of the two countries spoke for almost two hours on the sidelines of the ongoing Non-Aligned Movement summit at the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh in Egypt. In a statement afterward, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Pakistani Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gillani agreed to "share real-time, credible and actionable" intelligence information about possible terror plots.

The joint statement represented a break for the bitter blame-game that followed the deadly Mumbai attacks. "Both leaders affirmed their resolve to fight terrorism and cooperate with each other to this end," the statement in said.

I am disgusted beyond description. Ack thoo..

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 16 Jul 2009 18:53

Mumbai under threat: Fighter jets to shoot LeT ships before attack

This seems to be part of GOI psyops directed against Indian people to scare them enough so that they are ok with giving concessions to Pukes.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 16 Jul 2009 18:57

Dipanker wrote:
Mumbai under threat: Fighter jets to shoot LeT ships before attack
This seems to be part of GOI psyops directed against Indian people to scare them enough so that they are ok with giving concessions to Pukes.

BR gurus were right about GOI being chankian. All that chankianness was but employed against its own people to pull the wool over their eyes. Chankian, indeed!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Jul 2009 19:05

It would be interesting to see MMS, SM Krishna & Shiv Shankar Menon justifying this capitulation.

But, they have a good argument. If we really parse what they were saying so far, they were talking of the Foreign Secretaries talk in Egypt solely focussing on terrorism. It indeed focussed on that topic and India agreed that Pakistan was sincere in tackling that, action was being taken on the 26/11 accused etc. etc. For its part, Pakistan was allowed to insinuate that India was fomenting terror in Baluchistan. Thus, we attained parity. This was conveyed by Shiv Shankar Menon to the PM and the PM decided that he was satisfied with the progress on the 26/11 case and the genuineness of Pakistani efforts. He then felt that time was ripe for re-starting the dialogue as Pakistan has been punished enough for the 169 lives lost in 26/11 and for the thousands in the earlier attacks.

This capitulation, for its sheer monstrosity, equals the 26/11 attack itself.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 16 Jul 2009 19:14

Eunuchs voted eunuchs to power, what else did you expect? Like the Indian on the street gives a shit about his compatriots being blown to pieces every alternate day. It's only us jingos at BR driving our BP high when nobody else gives a damn. This is nothing, just wait for more WKKs singing ballads with their counterparts from across the border, more gana bajana, chai biskoot & another Bombay, but again who the ****** gives a flying rat's ass.

archan · Post by **archan** » 16 Jul 2009 19:16

Chandragupta wrote:It's only us jingos at BR driving our BP high when nobody else gives a damn.

Which is why I said what I did in my previous post. The country has survived worse crises. Granted, things could have been handled MUCH better now, but I want to head to the whines thread...

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 16 Jul 2009 19:25

SSridhar wrote:It would be interesting to see MMS, SM Krishna & Shiv Shankar Menon justifying this capitulation.

MMS gave a press conference earlier.
He said there is no alternative to talks. We cannot choose our neighbors. Etc. Etc.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 16 Jul 2009 19:28

The way this is going, it'll not take too long before MMS hands over Kashmir over to TSP and I'm sure our janta will be happily singing "Yeh dosti, hum nai chhodenge..." in the background. Naivety has it's costs.

tripathi · Post by **tripathi** » 16 Jul 2009 19:35

well you people are just raising your BP on the non-issue of non-state actor on which pakistan has no control.Pakistan is fighting same non state actor aka taliban thereby doing huge favour to indian people.Indian people cry over just 170 deaths in mumbai remember they could have been 1000s of deaths in mumbai on 26/11 if pakistan wouldnt have been fighting these non state actors.PM manmohan singh is right when he says both india and pakistan suffer from terrorism.

secondly,Manmohan singh ji is being chankian here.Till now pakistan was america's top dog aka banana republic.as pakistan moves into china camp india is filling up that place which pakistan is leaving for india thereby again doing huge favour for india.

Thirdly dont forget MMS has been given huge mandate by indian public to make india as america's top bitch.

So from now all GUBO will be of india.Reliance petroleum must start making lot of vaseline now coz there gonna be huge profit for them as 1 billion plus indians will require huge quantity of vaseline for their musharraff

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 16 Jul 2009 19:37

Don’t lose heart folks...

MMS is an honorable man and one cannot blame his or INC’s intentions. More over they have people mandate (whatever that means nowadays).

Perhaps GOI has better solution to this whole conundrum and will show its cards if and when needed. Till then have faith in our democratic and secular [sic] government. It is a small price to pay to have a stable economy. The price included but not limited to –

- Dilution and compromise of constitutional/state bodies such as CBI, EC, Justice, Police, Para-military, and Armed forces.
- Capitulation of Indian strategic interests such as Nuke-deal, Kyoto Protocol, WTO (Farm Subsidies) etc in the name increased (yet to be proven) global role.
- Timely release of controversial commission reports
- Protection of incompetent and corrupt ministers/state-governors in the name of stability
- Dhimmitude towards selective religious/ideological fanaticism.

Even if we all were wrong, the one hope we can always rely on is the law of karma. Everyone has to pay their dues in time.

negi · Post by **negi** » 16 Jul 2009 19:38

^ Well this surely is not the stance which I was expecting of the GOI ; while I know that dialogue or no dialogue or even if MMS chooses to speak in strong language to Geelani or Zardari is not gonna yield much what is important is the message that India and GOI send to the international community regarding our tolerance for 'terrorism' and at the same time the urgency and our commitment to do what it takes to stop it.

Dialogue or no Dialogue it is the security apparatus in our country and our intelligence agencies which will be critical to preventing the next attack ; however on a diplomatic side in the international fora by frequently letting down our guard and giving in to the seemingly intelligent thing to do i.e.'sustaining the dialogue' process not only we have made a mockery of oursleves yet for 'zillionth' time but have vindicated the stand of the dangerous community of 'WKK's', peace groups and even the think tank in US and the rest of the world which believes J&K is the root cause of Indo-Pak animosity.

I seriously wonder what on earth do folks who formulate our foreign policy smoke... ?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Jul 2009 19:42

RajeshA wrote:
SSridhar wrote:It would be interesting to see MMS, SM Krishna & Shiv Shankar Menon justifying this capitulation.
MMS gave a press conference earlier.
He said there is no alternative to talks. We cannot choose our neighbors. Etc. Etc.

If that was the case, then why were not the talks resumed immediately after the attacks ?

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 16 Jul 2009 19:45

The Pak Army planned and executed 26/11. Apart from harming India, which is their constant and consistent objective, a key objective was to provoke India sufficiently to justify abandoning the (pretence of a) fight againts Taliban / Al-Qaida on their Western borders. This was apparent from their statements and behaviour right from the outset of the attacks.

Now, the reality for the Pak Army has turned out to be rather different. The US read them the riot act, especially after Swat, and Petraeus gave them 2 weeks to get fighting or else, etc. US Predators are attacking targets in Pakistan daily. Fazlullah is on his deathbed, etc.

For those of us who know that Pak Army and Taliban are one and the same thing (jihadis with a different dress code), it must surely be gratifying to see these guys having to kill each other to stave of direct US intervention. The longer it goes on, the better it is for us, and the more degraded the morale and self-worth of the Pak Army and jihadis of all dress-code.

While it is highly unpleasant to have to talk to anyone in the Pakistani establishment, could it be that the intention of this statement is to further undermine the position of the Pak Army?

Talking to the Pak Foreign secretary by itself does India no harm. It is a complete waste of time from a security perspective, but it does serve the purpose of keeping the Pak Army occupied in the West with the task of killing its own kith and kin.

Anyway, what's the alternative. Not talk to them, and clobber them?

IF we have the capability, we can clobber them even if we are talking to them.

The key is to build the capability and then have the will to use it.

We all know (and Pak also knows) that Pak has not paid the price for 26/11. For that we will have to wait and see ...

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 16 Jul 2009 19:46

Indian Army chief to visit US next week

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 16 Jul 2009 20:03

Guys, as many of us, including me have been predicting, what a shameful capitulation by MMS. I mean, with a slum dog oscar celebrating public mandate behind him, he does not even need a fig leaf to hide behind (to quote Rajesh); and those who oppose this surrender are of course "Hindu extremists".

There was a time many of us would argue that TSP cannot get at the negotiating table, what they could not get through overt war. But indeed they have, through covert warfare and deft diplomacy. Does anybody have an iota of a doubt now that the next item for discussion with TSP will be Kashmir? Now here is the part that will make us jingos go bersek. I can bet you, TSP has assured India no more terror in the immediate future as a quid pro quo to Indian moves on Kashmir. And therefore, the pressure from US/UK/WKK on India will be relentless to make concessions to TSP. Thus the bottom line is clear, TSP is extracting its Mumbai (and countless other terror attack) returns. They are achieving their goals which they coould not through overt warfare.

In a nutshell, MMS has cast in stone that TSP's terror is moraly justificable because of Kashmir; something that ought to be anathema if India is even a micrcosm of a power.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 16 Jul 2009 20:06

My only consolation is India's H&D is in the gutter, Indian lives will be sacrificed at the altar of expediency and cowardice, but Pakistan would surely one day implode, as surely as day and night! Inshallah!

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 16 Jul 2009 20:07

shravan wrote:Indian Army chief to visit US next week

For what?

jash_p · Post by **jash_p** » 16 Jul 2009 20:13

What to make of this ?

No 'composite' talks till Pak acts on terror: PM
PTI 16 July 2009, 07:59pm IST

SHARM-EL SHEIKH (Egypt): In an apparent climbdown, India on Thursday dropped its insistence on refusing to hold talks with Pakistan till those

behind the Mumbai terror attacks were punished but Prime Minister Manmohan Singh clarified that the "composite dialogue" will not be resumed.

A joint statement issued after the second top-level meeting since the Mumbai terror attacks said "Both Prime Ministers recognised that dialogue is the only way forward. Action on terrorism should not be linked to the composite dialogue process and these should not be bracketed."

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 16 Jul 2009 20:16

Why would MMS and that Italian not have have agreed to this? The desies for the most part (young folks) gave them a mandate that Mumbai Terror is a non issue and they could care less if Pakistan kills Indians.

But the congress party saw great victory in Sri Lanka where the Tamils are now slaves and practicaly starving to death there. So that was one major win for the Desies.

AnimeshP · Post by **AnimeshP** » 16 Jul 2009 20:24

Manny wrote:Why would MMS and that Italian not have have agreed to this? The desies for the most part (young folks) gave them a mandate that Mumbai Terror is a non issue and they could care less if Pakistan kills Indians.

But the congress party saw great victory in Sri Lanka where the Tamils are now slaves and practical starving to death there. So that was one major win for the Desies.

+1 ... You might want to specifically include our own Mumbaikars & Delhiites ...

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 16 Jul 2009 20:32

CRamS wrote:
shravan wrote:Indian Army chief to visit US next week
For what?

His discussions with the US defence officials would delve on defence cooperation including joint training and exercises, exchanges and military equipment.

So expect some more joint trainings and some hardware purchases

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 16 Jul 2009 20:34

CRamS wrote:
shravan wrote:Indian Army chief to visit US next week
For what?

Af-Pak Policy.

I feel like something big is going to happen soon.
--

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 16 Jul 2009 20:36

krishnan wrote: So expect some more joint trainings and some hardware purchases

For that he does not have to go to America.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 16 Jul 2009 20:49

Well , what next now.

Don't be surprised if Hilary and MMS stand together in a press conference and Hilary gives our PM a cold stare after which he says that India will not forment any terror against Pakistan in Balochistan , we will review the dams we are building on our side and will not fund TTP though Afghanistan.

It's been a few hours since the announcement and I still cannot get over how cowardly it is.

tripathi · Post by **tripathi** » 16 Jul 2009 20:52

CRamS wrote:
shravan wrote:Indian Army chief to visit US next week
For what?

To indirectly take orders from kiyani through american army cheif.directly taking orders from kiyani will hurt india's H&D where none existed.