India's Sharm-el- Sheikh Harakiri...

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 16 Jul 2009 20:55

tripathi wrote:
To indirectly take orders from kiyani through american army cheif.directly taking orders from kiyani will hurt india's H&D where none existed.

Sir,

I don't know from which country you are from but India is not that Stupid.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 16 Jul 2009 20:56

something to give comfort to the heart perhaps.

Sharm-el-Sheikh, Egypt: Prime Minister Manmohan Singh made it clear to his Pakistani counterpart Yousuf Raza Gilani on Thursday that there can be no further bilateral dialogue unless Islamabad contains terrorist activities directed from Pakistani soil.

"We were quiet clear that if acts of terrorism continue to be perpetrated, there is no question of any dialogue, let alone composite dialogue," Manmohan Singh told reporters in Sharm-el-Sheikh after three hours of talks with Gilani on the sidelines of the Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) summit.

"Composite dialogue cannot begin unless and until and terrorist heads which shook Mumbai are properly accounted for, (the) perpetrators of these heinous crimes are brought to book," said Singh.

"If there is no attempt to contain terror, no dialogue can take place," he said, quickly adding that he was not accusing the present government in Islamabad of having "the same mindset".

At the same time, Manmohan Singh indicated that India would not be averse to talking to Pakistan, saying: "our relationship has been subject to too many accidents".

"We have begun the process... How successful we are in achieving that only time can tell," he said. "We have an obligation to engage Pakistan."

"India's destiny as a great power ... cannot be realised unless there is peace in South Asia."

The Indian prime minister said Pakistan "was very keen to resume the composite dialogue. I said unless we are satisfied (that Pakistan has put a stop to promoting terror), no dialogue can take place... I won't be able to carry the public with me."

Singh and Gilani met for an hour without aides before they had another nearly two hours of talks with their delegation members.

Singh said he sought from Gilani an assurance that there would be no repeat of the savage terror attacks like on Mumbai last year when terrorists from Pakistan sneaked into the Indian city and slaughtered over 170 people. If that happens, it would be "intolerable", he said.

To this, Gialni reportedly responded: "You test us. We will work with India to prevent such things from happening again."

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/no-peace-tal ... 282-2.html

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 16 Jul 2009 20:56

I think the SWAT strategy (of jihadis) presumed that Pak Army won't fight jihadis in SWAT (kind of assumption that argentina made in Falklands case?) for the reasons we all know. Now that it has and according to paki media, the command and control structure was removed from that area, the jihadis will have to regroup and plan their next steps. Add to that the offensive is currently continuing in 4-5 different theaters within FATA and western Pakistan. It is perhaps time to engage, regroup, and then continue - in other worlds taquiyya. One of the option that I listed earlier. It is to be noted that major johadi leaders are still at large in SWAT - who knows some plane from neighbouring country has airlifted them for things to die down a bit.

We must remember, as someone mentioned here, that any promise to pakistan will last only till such time when there is another attack (high pofile) on india. Does pakistan has capability to prevent that? If no. so, what is the meaning of any promise that India makes to Pakistan.

My gripe in all this that the "perceptions" matter and in this, there is no apparent possitive for India to show to its public.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 16 Jul 2009 21:01

Nationalists fear Swat-like action in Balochistan

Thursday, July 16, 2009
By By Mumtaz Alvi

ISLAMABAD: Balochistan is persistently in grip of uncertainty about a possible military operation against the miscreants who allegedly fled Swat and various parts of Fata in recent months and settled down in the province.

The ruling PPP-led coalition foresees no such development whereas the nationalists fear that a strategy had been worked out to use force against the extremists in Quetta, Pishin, Loralai and some other areas of the province.

The National Party (NP) cautioned the government against a Swat-like military operation in some parts of Balochistan, saying the people and the provincial government would oppose it tooth and nail.

Pakistan Muslim League (PML-Q) legislator from Kalat Rehana Yahya Baloch feared that the government was planning a military action against miscreants in Quetta and elsewhere. “I have learnt from my own sources that a military action is on the cards in Quetta and some other parts of the province to flush out militants. This will be counter-productive,” Rehana Yahya said.

However, the ruling PPP’s provincial Secretary General Bismillah Kakar brushed aside such reports and concerns of the political parties and said the government had no plan to launch a military operation in Balochistan.

Talking to The News here on Wednesday, Senior Vice-President of NP Senator Hasil Bizenjo said there had been media reports and some statements from the West that a Swat-like operation was due in Balochistan to flush out the militants.

To a question, he noted that if the government wanted to really eliminate the militants, then why they were allowed to flee to Balochistan from the NWFP and elsewhere. “In case, the people of Balochistan are subjected to a fresh wave of bloodshed, it would further compound the state of affairs while many people are now openly talking about freedom,” he warned.

He feared any military action would result in collateral damage, as the areas being named in media reports to be targeted wwere thickly populated. The nationalist senator claimed that there was a consensus among the nationalists and parties in the provincial government that there was no logic and justification for a military action or drone attacks.

He continued that even Chief Minister Nawab Aslam Raisani had openly opposed such dreadful measures in Balochistan. Bismillah Kakar, however, dismissed concerns in this regard and said the leadership at the highest level had assured that there would be no such extreme measure in the province.

“During the PPP’s central executive committee meeting at the President House last week, where Prime Minister Gilani was also present, a categorical assurance was held out that no action in Balochistan is under consideration,” the PPP leader claimed.

The assurance, he pointed out, was given after some PPP leaders, particularly those from Balochistan, expressed their concerns in this connection. Kakar, who lives in Qilla Saifullah, 14 kilometres from the Pak-Afghan border, pointed out that he had not seen any movement that could be seen as a prelude to the military operation.

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 16 Jul 2009 21:02

From "breaking news" ticker on the Indian Express site
India has nothing to be afraid about events in Balochistan. Our policies are an open book there. We are willing to discuss anything: PM

Shame

No decision on what kind of dialogue it will be between India and Pakistan, says PM

Maybe he'll know within next six days. Hillary and the entourage will shed light on this.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 16 Jul 2009 21:03

shravan wrote:Af-Pak Policy.

I feel like something big is going to happen soon.

Nothing is going to happen.
GoI just agreed to resume talks - on what specifically? Terror? There will never be any progress by pakistan on terror unless Kashmir is on the table.
Now the pakistanis have:
1. Kashmir valley
2. Water issue
3. Balochistan
on the negotiating table, among their set of grievances against India. Hafeez Sayeed is too prominent to be arrested / convicted. The lesser mortals will probably be 'retired'.

But we need to know more on what dialogue has been agreed upon by GoI. Why this strange stance now? We don't have enough information on this yet to come to the proper conclusion.

The problem is that MMS and the current government does not regularly speak to the media and explain its actions. The media is comprised of mostly sold out corrupt fools who care for their own development, and don't question the government on the steps it takes. GoI is allowed to fudge the issue.

See that issue with the two politicians involved in the 84 sikh riots. The DDM was sleeping on its ass when congress I was sweeping things under the carpet. One kick on the musharraf by the shoe incident and suddenly everyone was wide awake. Even then you hear some dimwit women reporters in the background saying "what is this" as if something very wrong had been committed. It seems journalism is restricted to asking questions to politicians, accepting their answers at face value and printing them and making issues out of non issues.

The opposition is only going to get some cow-belt politicians to create a ruckus inside the parliament. That will be the extent to which the government will ever be challenged.

Pakistan will get away with this 26/11. It is a shame that the likes of Hafeez Sayeed and Hamid Gul will die comfortably in their sleeps at home surrounded by family, while the people whom these guys killed left only heartbreak and misery to their families.

It seems GoI has accepted its helplessness to agree to talks.

What a shame.

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 16 Jul 2009 21:04

Most likely this is the first time an Indian PM has used the world "Balochistan".
@!#@!#!!#

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 16 Jul 2009 21:18

I told you Balochistan is on the table now.

From Pakistan's POV:
1. Kashmir and siachen.
2. water
3. Balochistan.

From India's POV:
1. Ending terror.

Pakistan easily retorts with a "solve these three to pakistan's satisfaction and the terror will be solved. IOW - pakistan's list of demands keep increasing, without anything getting solved. Terror continues because India doesnot respond to it.
I don't know what 10 year or 100 year program GoI has to put an end to Pak sponsored terror.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 16 Jul 2009 21:31

Gagan wrote: From India's POV:
1. Ending terror.

Ending terror will End Pakistan...

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 16 Jul 2009 21:33

Gagan wrote:I don't know what 10 year or 100 year program GoI has to put an end to Pak sponsored terror.

Well there is this 912,830,194,804,234,890,234 year program that MKG put in place. Transform others' heart thru Ahimsa. And our MMS is following those phoot steps. Finally we got our jati-babai (paternal-uncle)

after our jati-pita

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 16 Jul 2009 21:38

Text of joint statement

The Prime Minister of India, Manmohan Singh, and the Prime Minister of Pakistan, Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani, met in Sharm-el-Sheikh on July 16, 2009.

The two Prime Ministers had a cordial and constructive meeting. They considered the entire gamut of bilateral relations with a view to charting the way forward in India-Pakistan relations. Both leaders agreed that terrorism is the main threat to both countries. Both leaders affirmed their resolve to fight terrorism and to cooperate with each other to this end.

Prime Minister Singh reiterated the need to bring the perpetrators of the Mumbai attack to justice. Prime Minister Gilani assured that Pakistan will do everything in its power in this regard. He said that Pakistan had provided an updated status dossier on the investigations of the Mumbai attacks and had sought additional information/evidence. Prime Minister Singh said that the dossier is being reviewed.

Both leaders agreed that the two countries will share real time, credible and actionable information on any future terrorist threats.

Prime Minister Gilani mentioned that Pakistan has some information on threats in Baluchistan and other areas.

Both Prime Ministers recognised that dialogue is the only way forward. Action on terrorism should not be linked to the composite dialogue process and these should not be bracketed. Prime Minister Singh said that India was ready to discuss all issues with Pakistan, including all outstanding issues.

Prime Minister Singh reiterated India's interest in a stable, democratic, Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Both leaders agreed that the real challenge is development and the elimination of poverty.

Both leaders are resolved to eliminate those factors which prevent our countries from realizing their full potential. Both agreed to work to create an atmosphere of mutual trust and confidence.

Both leaders reaffirmed their intention to promote regional cooperation.

Both foreign secretaries should meet as often as necessary and report to the two foreign ministers who will be meeting on the sidelines of the forthcoming UN General Assembly.

Let's not get too worked up. It was Gilani who mentioned and there was no kamment from MMS. Of course they may have discussed it a bit and sought to include in the joint statement in exchange for not mentioning J&K. (IMO, it should not have been but they may know better).

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jul 2009 21:43

Shouldnt all this be in the whine thread?

Talks were on the table ever since Holebrooke was appointed envoy. Talks stall the US pressure to do more. Its not TSP that is the problem but bigger. When talks get stalled the TSP will go back to proven formula. The key is to not be distracted from bigger goals. Take a look again at RamaY's jpg and see where India is lagging. cant do much until some of them are rectified.

Convert those RR batallions to holding corps and the current holding corps into IBGs in Kashmir.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 16 Jul 2009 21:48

Yeah, I think we should not get worked up.

The best news is that there does not seem to be a "next" meeting for a year or two to come. MMS will not have to downgrade any more. For a year at least.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 16 Jul 2009 22:02

http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/jul/ ... -india.htm

Gilani told the Pakistani media that he told Dr Singh in Punjabi, "You are my elder. I respect you. I expect you to treat me as a younger brother. So give me some concessions."

Gilani generously shared details of his talks with Pakistani journalists. Mir says, "When Gilani returns to Pakistan he will be able to claim that 'main India se apni bat manva kar laya hun.' (I was able to get concessions from India)."

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jul 2009 22:07

So the Chankian move is to prop up Gilani in TSP. He is the new Zulfi.

As Kamaraj, whose 107 birth anniversary was celebrated recently, used to say "Paarkalam" (Lets see!)

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 16 Jul 2009 22:13

All this happiness on co-opting Geelani doesn't mean a thing. Kiyani will yank the invisible thread that he has around the ball$ of geelani and zardari, and all and sundry will fall in.
Then kiyani will yank the thread around the ball$ of his terrorists, and off they will go to chennai to cause mayhem and terror.

India and GoI can meanwhile have biskoot with geelani.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 16 Jul 2009 22:15

Talks between India and TSP are nothing to be afraid of. They are primarily intended for the TSP domestic audience to earn Uncle some goodwill. MMS with his 'I did not know the media was present ...' statements, has already outlined where India stood. All else is noise.

Geelani will be given some sop, like a truck full of IA jawans have been withdrawn from J&K or India has agreed to discuss the XYZ dam issue with World Bank or some other meaningless drivel. The fundamental issues of terrorism and the raisin dieter of TSP will remain unresolved, as long as the TSP state gets recognition as a valid nation. The eventual end game is the reduction of TSP into smaller more manageable states. How long it will take for that to happen is the question. Every thing else is to keep the chai-biskut guys in business.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 16 Jul 2009 22:25

My point is that it is these little 'moral' victories that is the real juice which pakistan survives by.
We have to strenuously deny them this. I know India stands like a wall not budging an inch.

Haven't we watched that naseem zaira lady get all touchy feely when reality is laid out to her? She is the quintessential Pakjabi, her dismay and the hopeless bouts of depression that will follow is what will happen when that juice of supremacy is denied.

India has to stop giving any leash to pakistan, jolt it off its hashish dream of supremacy, show them for the immature punks they are, and run them down. This will speed up their break up and give India the peace to be number one in Asia.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 16 Jul 2009 22:31

I see no endgame plans, all I see is cowardice & cowardice everywhere. And even if Kaangress sarkar is thinking of endgames & all, I'm inclined to believe that their vision of an endgame is a stable, strong Pakistan with Kashmir as a part of their territory, and a sekoolar India without any hindu extremists. Jai ho onlee.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 16 Jul 2009 22:33

VikramS wrote: MMS with his....

The problem VikramS is that us jingo's being Jingo's trust MMS less than 10%i. It is a sad commentary on some of us perhaps but does not change that a whit.

I do not trust this man -- but even other fools have been useful for India in the long run, so parakalam. Ma is bigger than her nikkamma sons.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 16 Jul 2009 22:40

Gagan wrote:My point is that it is these little 'moral' victories that is the real juice which pakistan survives by.
We have to strenuously deny them this. I know India stands like a wall not budging an inch.

India has to stop giving any leash to pakistan, jolt it off its hashish dream of supremacy, show them for the immature punks they are, and run them down. This will speed up their break up and give India the peace to be number one in Asia.

Perhaps that jhapad will come, either

when USA has what it wants from the Pakis and are willing to throw it away like a condom again
when the situation in Pakistan is so bad, that USA transits into the Pak-Denuke mode.
when India has achieved a substantial economy differential viz-a-viz Pakistan and sufficient economic size for policy autonomy
when India has done its internal-security and military upgrades

However there is no guarantee, that it will be in the next 15 years.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 16 Jul 2009 22:41

Chandragupta wrote:I see no endgame plans, all I see is cowardice & cowardice everywhere. And even if Kaangress sarkar is thinking of endgames & all, I'm inclined to believe that their vision of an endgame is a stable, strong Pakistan with Kashmir as a part of their territory, and a sekoolar India without any hindu extremists. Jai ho onlee.

Did you vote for Congress and Are you happy when the govt was formed?
I ask this question to everyone who whines.

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 16 Jul 2009 22:42

shravan wrote:
tripathi wrote:
To indirectly take orders from kiyani through american army cheif.directly taking orders from kiyani will hurt india's H&D where none existed.
Sir,

I don't know from which country you are from but India is not that Stupid.

Dont be so sure. Dhimmi MMS will certainly not mind such an arrangement. After all it is his govt. which is hell bent on weakening the position of the armed forces in JnK by pandering to the separatists.

Perhaps that jhapad will come, either
when USA has what it wants from the Pakis and are willing to throw it away like a condom again
when the situation in Pakistan is so bad, that USA transits into the Pak-Denuke mode.
when India has achieved a substantial economy differential viz-a-viz Pakistan and sufficient economic size for policy autonomy
when India has done its internal-security and military upgrades
However there is no guarantee, that it will be in the next 15 years.

No Sir, that KO punch has to be delivered by India & to do that we need an ultra-nationalist govt. in power, not a bunch of yellow bellied traitors. All of the conditions that you have mentioned have been met, to varying degrees, in the past. Yet have the Pukes changed? They will not for they cannot, its in their ideology. And lets make noises of karma catching up with them Pukes sooner or later, its cowardice.

negi · Post by **negi** » 16 Jul 2009 22:46

Jhapad will never come ...mark my words...ah ofcourse India will twitch and jerk a limb or two if TSP again pokes a rod behind a la- Kargil ..only for more chai-biskoot the time period between the poke and biskoot will depend on general elections and other internal politics just like old times.

What economic differential are people talking about hain ? is this some Baniya logic 2 trillion dollar trade==less tolerance for terrorism ?

Btw I like the fact that for every unexplained and silly move GOI makes ...we can blindly attribute it to 'Chankian strategy'.

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 16 Jul 2009 22:49

^^^
AoA negiullah,
you are truly a piradher mujahid. such concurrence of views & posts.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 16 Jul 2009 22:53

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/17/world ... ?ref=world

Pakistan’s prime minister pledged to bring the perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks to justice, and the two countries agreed to share real-time intelligence on terrorist threats with India, according to a joint statement released by the prime ministers.

Shamshad Ahmad, a former top diplomat for Pakistan, said he expected the meeting would lead to a resumption of formal talks between India and Pakistan, because, he said, the United States has been pushing the countries to begin again.

“Washington is nudging both sides to go back to the conference table,” he said. “When Washington has such deep stakes in the process I doubt India would be able to resist it.”

But Lalit Mansingh, a former Indian foreign secretary and ambassador to the United States, said that India will not be pushed into open-ended talks.

“The prime minister said he is willing to go more than halfway if Pakistan takes tangible measures,” he said. “But India is obviously frustrated that Pakistan is not making sincere efforts.”

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 16 Jul 2009 22:54

Chandragupta wrote:I see no endgame plans, all I see is cowardice & cowardice everywhere. And even if Kaangress sarkar is thinking of endgames & all, I'm inclined to believe that their vision of an endgame is a stable, strong Pakistan with Kashmir as a part of their territory, and a sekoolar India without any hindu extremists. Jai ho onlee.

Things are not so straightforward.

MMS might be a mangy old dog, but he is a terrier. Unassuming, unflashy but focused.

There are several aspects to this development that need to be seriously considered. Let us calmly look at realities first.

1. India has no real leverage over Pakistan as of now. Indian diplomacy could neither insert benchmarks on progress against terrorism to aid from Unkil nor block aid from multilateral agencies.

2. India is either active in Balochistan or not. If they are not active, we have no leverage. On the other hand Pakistan can should themselves hoarse against "Indian designs" but would have made no progress towards settling the Balochi issue. So from a Pakistani perspective it is better if India were involved. Rallying forces against "external threats" is easy. On the other hand if Indians are not involved, we are screwed due to no leverage, but Pakis are doubly screwed because the problem is domestic.

3. By putting Balochistan in the joint statement, the idiotic Pakis have opened an avenue through which India can express solidarity with them, complain if too much force is used, etc.

4. The MMS-Gilani bhai-bhai came after 48 hours of intense negotiations by the foreign secretaries. Hamid Mir is BS-ing when he says that Paki FS took a tough stance saying that without concessions "There will be no joint statements" - there by indicating that Indians made a climbdown after tough diplomacy. I find this explanation laughable - Indians were not keen on a joint statement anyway. I for one, find it incredulous that 48 hours were spend doing chai-biskoot

5. Indians have subtly propped up Gilani and Snubbed Zardari. By negotiating with the former, but snubbing latter in front of the cameras. I wonder why.

6. By proposing climbdown at this critical juncture the foreign babus should have noticed that they have hardened public opinion in India.

Combine these with the fact that MMS team does not lack imagination or guts and have no real incentive to sell India out. Something else is cooking.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 16 Jul 2009 22:58

negi ji, raja bhaiya,

the current generation of leadership is not up to hitting out against Pakistan. A new generation of leaders will have to rise, and I don't necessarily mean GenNext, or the Rahul Baba coterie!

Most are baniyas. They don't want to invest in any war. They all want Pakistan to collapse of its own weight. Whether their hopes will be realized, is still to see.

AmitR · Post by **AmitR** » 16 Jul 2009 23:08

Anujan wrote:
Chandragupta wrote:I see no endgame plans, all I see is cowardice & cowardice everywhere. And even if Kaangress sarkar is thinking of endgames & all, I'm inclined to believe that their vision of an endgame is a stable, strong Pakistan with Kashmir as a part of their territory, and a sekoolar India without any hindu extremists. Jai ho onlee.
Things are not so straightforward.

MMS might be a mangy old dog, but he is a terrier. Unassuming, unflashy but focused.

Anujan Pai,

This argument that India has something up their sleeves has been paraded since decades. But while we keep on waiting to see what India has up it's sleeves, Pakis just give it up India's Mushi. This is nothing more than full capitulation in front of the Pakis and again MMS and team have kneeled down and accepted the defeat. Can you give me any good example of the imagination and guts that MMS and team have shown in the last 10 years. The only guts and imagination that is being shown is converting the Kargil war into a BJP's war.

Nothing is cooking because to cook you need fire and that fire is completely missing in our political leadership.
Stop making khayali pulav, Congress and their cronies have already sold this country to unkil and pakis.

negi · Post by **negi** » 16 Jul 2009 23:08

1. India has no real leverage over Pakistan as of now. Indian diplomacy could neither insert benchmarks on progress against terrorism to aid from Unkil nor block aid from multilateral agencies.

One does not have or get leverage ; opportunities and leverage points need to be created wonder why NoKo bursts a bum and fires a mijjile every now and then ,finger's the Unkil and gets away ?

Until 26/11 India had never been in a position to actually conclusively show or prove to the world the involvement of TSP govt. apparatus in the terrorist attacks (ok we know CIA and CO had there own vested interests to protect...); but live coverage of the communication between Kasab and his handlers in TSP over Thuraya sat phones and Kasab's confession put TSP in one corner.

Hell even CNN ,NYT and BBC had columns over the attack that acknowledged TSP involvement otherwise all terrorist attacks were described as fight for J&K's freedom.

Ofcourse we do not expect GOI to attack TSP (we are chankian onlee) but we definitely have the required clout in the global community to put a trade embargo on TSP , stop all travel to and fro to Pakistan.And if push comes to shove block the GATES on DAMS for a week or so .

I think if Geelani and Zardari are indeed innocents (knew nothing about this and intend to help) they would have budged and handed over the culprits to us .

If my pov sounds absurd will the chankians on fora point me to a country which has been provoked as many times as India and still opted for chai-biskoot ?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 16 Jul 2009 23:11

Chandragupta wrote:I see no endgame plans, all I see is cowardice & cowardice everywhere. And even if Kaangress sarkar is thinking of endgames & all, I'm inclined to believe that their vision of an endgame is a stable, strong Pakistan with Kashmir as a part of their territory, and a sekoolar India without any hindu extremists. Jai ho onlee.

We should hang our heads in shame that we could not vote in sensible people to lead us.

Every Indian political joker and his uncle is out to chew the country.

And auntie is smiling all the way to the vatican.

Was the ****@#@$$ NSA asleep at the wheel or was he attending some belly dance party as he was doing during 26/11? Could he not head off this disaster?

Geriatric politicos should never be let out unattended.

Now it is clear why the porkis always want to only meet with mms, (and speak in panjabi). God save us from these foolishly nostalgic born across the border do gooders.

What about giving some concessions to Indians who died during terrorist attacks? or do all muslims including porkis have first claim on India's resources?

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 16 Jul 2009 23:13

ramana wrote:Shouldnt all this be in the whine thread?

Talks were on the table ever since Holebrooke was appointed envoy. Talks stall the US pressure to do more. Its not TSP that is the problem but bigger. When talks get stalled the TSP will go back to proven formula. The key is to not be distracted from bigger goals. Take a look again at RamaY's jpg and see where India is lagging. cant do much until some of them are rectified.

Convert those RR batallions to holding corps and the current holding corps into IBGs in Kashmir.

exactly for what ramana sir, selling chana to Pakistan or is it selling Kashmir/mumbai itself to Pakistan.

When we are anyway going to talk of giving Kashmir to Pakistan, let us atleast cut the costs by removing RR and yes why do we need those army, airforce, navy anyway. Let us cut our costs, remove them and directly send the 50,000 crores to corrupt politicians in a tax free manner.

Yes, a big whine and a bigger towel. Anyway taking this to whine thread as we have much much more important things to discuss here, like how to give away Kashmir, then himachal, then delhi to Pakistan without getting any "hindu extremist" ire.

negi · Post by **negi** » 16 Jul 2009 23:14

Infact our inaction in past decades and peace talks have only vindicated the likes of Zaid Hamid and Hamid Gul ; i.e. Mumbai attack is a RAW ,MOSAD and CIA conspiracy else why is that until now India has not taken any action ? And this new development will be projected as India succumbing to TSP nukes and high precision mijjiles which can hit a FLAG anywhere on globe within the TSP military and geo-political circles.The common Pakistani will buy this propaganda and a yet another 'chapter' of India's conspiracy will be added in their school text books .

Ofcourse our IFS fraternity will pat themselves on the back as to how they managed to create an opportunity to enjoy 'Lahori Kebabs' and 'Karachi ka Halwa'. After all this is what MMS dreamt about .

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 16 Jul 2009 23:15

Anujan wrote:5. Indians have subtly propped up Gilani and Snubbed Zardari. By negotiating with the former, but snubbing latter in front of the cameras. I wonder why.

ramana wrote:So the Chankian move is to prop up Gilani in TSP.

I think this is the key in terms of the message that India is sending. there is already the *balance of power* discussion that is raging in pakistan and even the legal community is siding with Gilani. Looks like 10%'s goose is getting cooked (again, perceptions matter). these two represent sindh and panjab(especially south punjab).

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 16 Jul 2009 23:20

Satya_anveshi wrote:I think this is the key in terms of the message that India is sending. there is already the *balance of power* discussion that is raging in pakistan and even the legal community is siding with Gilani. Looks like 10%'s goose is getting cooked (again, perceptions matter). these two represent sindh and panjab(especially south punjab).

What I dont understand though is that Zardari seems to be more friendly to India. Groper, after the the national security adviser, Mahmood Ali Durrani acknowledged that Kasab is a pakistani, had him fired. Apparently Durrani had clearance from Zardari to make this statement. There are numerous such instances to show that Zardari is a clown, but Gilani is a Jihadi.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jul 2009 23:22

Sigh. Time is not right.

The RR, holding corps and IBGs are what gives protection one enjoys. By having them already deployed it reduces the chances of terrorist attacks and at same time allows transformation of the forces.

Most of the P-5/G8 will sit back and enjoy the grinding war stalemate that will result. And TSP wins with that for that is its purpose.

BTW, MMS is celebrating Kargil end with a special launch.
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Anujan, Gilani is Pakjabi which is the largest demographic group. Zardari's days are numbered anyways.

negi · Post by **negi** » 16 Jul 2009 23:22

I don't buy this.

similar idea was tom tom'd on this fora when Musharraf was shown the door and Benazir took over infact even Nawaz was being promoted as the next PM.Rest as they say is history .

Zardari or Gilani what difference does it make to us ...hain ?

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 16 Jul 2009 23:26

No 'composite' talks till Pak acts on terror: PM

SHARM-EL SHEIKH (Egypt): In an apparent climbdown, India on Thursday dropped its insistence on refusing to hold talks with Pakistan till those behind the Mumbai terror attacks were punished but Prime Minister Manmohan Singh clarified that the "composite dialogue" will not be resumed.

...
The delinking of composite dialogue with terrorism is seen as a climbdown by India as it has all along maintained that dialogue cannot be held till there is concrete action against terrorism emanating from Pakistan.

Later, addressing a press conference, Singh was at pains to clarify that "the composite dialogue process cannot resume unless and until terrorist acts, like the one which shook Mumbai, are properly accounted for and perpetrators of these heinous crimes are brought to book."

Singh said that "if acts of terrorism continue to be perpetrated, there is no question of dialogue, least of all, the composite dialogue... If there is no attempt (by Pakistan) to contain terrorism, no dialogue can succeed."

He emphasised that "So long as Pakistan territory continues to be used for perpetrating acts of terrorism directed against India, I think, the dialogue, even if it starts, cannot move forward."

Noting that there is no option but to have dialogue with Pakistan, he said, however, that he could not say what kind of talks will happen. This, he said, will be determined by the Foreign Secretaries of the two countries who will keep meeting as often as possible.

Singh said that any recurrence of Mumbai-type attack will be "intolerable" and that would affect the ties from moving forward.
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ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jul 2009 23:29

I was going to post this form the Intel&NS thread

mohan wrote:
AmitR wrote:India, Pak delink terrorism from dialogue
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS ... 785330.cms

IBNLIVE says something subtly different:
No peace talks till 26/11 is settled: Manmohan
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/no-peace-tal ... 282-2.html

On the face of it, the article appears to contradicts itself - not sure what to read into this:

Composite dialogue cannot begin unless and until and terrorist heads which shook Mumbai are properly accounted for, (the) perpetrators of these heinous crimes are brought to book," said Singh.

"If there is no attempt to contain terror, no dialogue can take place," he said, quickly adding that he was not accusing the present government in Islamabad of having "the same mindset".

At the same time, Manmohan Singh indicated that India would not be averse to talking to Pakistan, saying: "our relationship has been subject to too many accidents".
and then..

In a significant development, the two countries issued a joint statement declaring that they would de-link "action on terrorism" from the composite dialogue process.
Perhaps we are saying, yes, we can delink terrorism from other parts of the composite dialogue, but bring the terrorists to boot first - a round about way of saying the same thing we've been saying all along.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 16 Jul 2009 23:34

OT self deleted...