India's Sharm-el- Sheikh Harakiri...

[amit]

For all those timid souls who ever doubted the intentions of the good doctor.

From todays yawn


Proof of RAW involvement in terror acts given to India
By Baqir Sajjad Syed
Wednesday, 22 Jul, 2009 | 03:34 AM PST
>
>
>

A substantial part of the shared material deals with the Balochistan insurgency and Indian linkages with the insurgents, particularly Bramdagh Bugti, Burhan and Sher Khan. Pictures of their meetings with Indian operatives are part of the evidence, which also describes Bugti’s visit to India and the meetings he had with Indian secret service personnel.

It makes mention of the India-funded Kandahar training camp, where Baloch insurgents, particularly those from Bugti clan, were being trained and provided arms and ammunition for sabotage activities in Balochistan.

The sources claim that Dr Singh agreed to “look into Pakistani claims” and to take “corrective action” if proven. He is said to have assured Mr Gilani that India is against interference in other countries and Pakistan’s stability was important for them.

A joint communiqué, released after the Gilani-Singh meeting in Sharm el-Sheikh, reflected information-sharing because it included reference to Balochistan and the information available to Pakistan; reiteration of Indian commitment to a stable and democratic Pakistan; and an agreement on sharing real time credible and actionable information on any future terrorist threats.

Great! Now we should have comprehensive dialogue with the Pakis on Baluchistan and the aspirations of the Baluchi people. And yes India only provides "moral and diplomatic" support to the Baluchis and is against all forms of terrorism, including state sponsored terror.

Now if anyone thinks this is an embarrassment for India, this is the time to speak up!

[Sanku]

Great! Now we should have comprehensive dialogue with the Pakis on Baluchistan and the aspirations of the Baluchi people. And yes India only provides "moral and diplomatic" support to the Baluchis and is against all forms of terrorism, including state sponsored terror.

Now if anyone thinks this is an embarrassment for India, this is the time to speak up!

All these dialogues are just going to be Paki way of suggesting to their masters that they should not be punished for terrorism since India is doing that too. In fact I am sure this is what the master told its puppet to do so he Khan use the excuse.

Right now Baloch issue is SEEN to be a homegrown one, you want to spoil its chances by making it look YYY conspiracy? And wasnt the great N^3 using the same logic for Uighur land where the chances of any Indian support giving China a excuse are far far less.? I guess N^3 has mastered the Uncle's art of having context sensitive rules of logic.

As far as India is concerned why does India NEED to talk to Pak about Balochistan? What does it get?

If at all we need to talk to Pakjabi's only ONCE!!

Even if that.

---------------

Really silly and pathetic excuse to give a Chankian twist to sheer blunder at best (already accepted by Shri Menon in case you didnt notice)

[RajeshA]

Very nice RajeshA, an intresting take. However if I may say so, of all the theories that you outline above, start with something like "the Americans..." in the first few lines.

Sanku, that is correct that all theories start with Americans in the middle. But that would be expected.

Baluchis receive their sustenance through Afghanistan only, so it is either through Karzai or through USA but it is definitely with the acquiescence of USA. India is of course also in the mix. But basically Afghanistan is America's playground right now. It would be naive to think, India would be able to do anything there substantial, especially with our very shy public posture.

[RajeshA]

Really silly and pathetic excuse to give a Chankian twist to sheer blunder at best (already accepted by Shri Menon in case you didnt notice)

Yes, but for Indians the real challenge is to look less Chankyan. The more accusations of stupidity and emotionality that are heaped on MMS and the Babus, the better they can obfuscate and hide their true "ulterior" motives. A bit of self-flagellation can also help.

[amit]

Really silly and pathetic excuse to give a Chankian twist to sheer blunder at best (already accepted by Shri Menon in case you didnt notice)

Sanku,

If you can't read what I write, then it's really pointless trying to talk with you. May be you have an attention span problem, I don't know. Or maybe you see the Little Red Bindi below my name and see Red, I don't know.

But in my last several posts I've said quite clearly that I suspect it the Jt Declaration was a blunder on the part of MEA.

However, where I defer from ronna dhonna experts like you is that I said that it's not a big deal and that such joint declaration don't amount to much as most nations just pay lip service to such declarations.

The way you and others are going about it, you make it sound like the biggest foreign policy blunder since Jaswant Singh landed in Khandhar with some friendly neighbourhood terrorists.

Anyway buy a handkerchief for my sake.

Cheers!

Added later:

All these dialogues are just going to be Paki way of suggesting to their masters that they should not be punished for terrorism since India is doing that too. In fact I am sure this is what the master told its puppet to do so he Khan use the excuse.

Who the fuk cares what Paki's masters think? I didn't know that India has to depend on the Paki masters to punish them. Or that we have to have "log kaye kahege" attitude towards Uncle Sam. Uncle Sam will try to screw us if it suits its interest irrespective of Baluchistan or Kashmir. And it will side with us if it is in its interests, as simple as that.

[chetak]

Great! Now we should have comprehensive dialogue with the Pakis on Baluchistan and the aspirations of the Baluchi people. And yes India only provides "moral and diplomatic" support to the Baluchis and is against all forms of terrorism, including state sponsored terror.

Now if anyone thinks this is an embarrassment for India, this is the time to speak up!

All these dialogues are just going to be Paki way of suggesting to their masters that they should not be punished for terrorism since India is doing that too. In fact I am sure this is what the master told its puppet to do so he Khan use the excuse.

Right now Baloch issue is SEEN to be a homegrown one, you want to spoil its chances by making it look YYY conspiracy? And wasnt the great N^3 using the same logic for Uighur land where the chances of any Indian support giving China a excuse are far far less.? I guess N^3 has mastered the Uncle's art of having context sensitive rules of logic.

As far as India is concerned why does India NEED to talk to Pak about Balochistan? What does it get?

If at all we need to talk to Pakjabi's only ONCE!!

Even if that.

---------------

Really silly and pathetic excuse to give a Chankian twist to sheer blunder at best (already accepted by Shri Menon in case you didnt notice)

Brajesh Mishra in a TV interview clearly indicated that the MEA amd Intelligence officials had nothing to do with this fiasco.


'Mention of Balochistan in joint-statement a big mistake'


Criticising the Indo-Pak joint statement, former national security advisor Brajesh Mishra has said India has made "a very big mistake" by allowing Balochistan to figure in it.

"India could have thwarted Pakistan's attempt by playing the Kabul card. If Pak was very insistent about talking on

Balochistan, there was a way to handle it and that was to talk about Kabul. Perhaps, we were so keen to have the joint statement that we did not bother about the damaging aspects," he lamented.

Mishra, in an interview to Karan Thapar for CNBC's 'India Tonight' programme, said it was a "very big mistake" by permitting the mention of Balochistan in the statement.

Observing that the joint "statement is in complete reversal from India's earlier position", Mishra said, "I do not disagree with the vision of the Prime Minister that good, friendly, cooperative relationship between India and Pakistan is important. But you cannot have success in this by being a supplicant. You have to be strong. People should know that you are not talking out of weakness. Today the impression is given that we are weak.....And, therefore, we are giving all these away," he said.

The Indo-Pak joint statement was issued last week in Sharm-el Sheikh, Egypt [ Images ], after a meeting between Prime Minister Manmohan Singh [ Images ] and his Pakistani counterpart Yousuf Raza Gilani [ Images ] on the sidelines of the Non-Aligned Movement Summit. Besides delinking the terrorism from the composite dialogue, the statement also mentioned terrorism in Balochistan.

Asked if it was the mistake on the part of officials during the drafting of the statement, Mishra said, "I know the foreign office very well. I know our intelligence agencies here fairly well. I don't think its the fault of the officials."

He nodded replying in affirmative when asked if the political leadership was to be blamed for this.

Mishra said, "The joint statement is an indication that India is behaving like a supplicant since 26/11, doing nothing on its own, relying on the US and Europe and others to do it for them."

[Sanku]

However, where I defer from ronna dhonna experts like you is that I said that it's not a big deal and that such joint declaration don't amount to much as most nations just pay lip service to such declarations.

Really so after your great rah rah on how great the Baloch reference is now you slink back to this


And claim that we do rona dhona?

Reminds me of silly tactics of mocking and labeling people during the Nuke debate and then calling the people mocked as whiners when they protest the quality of discussion.

Boss if calling a spade a spade bothers you so much -- may be the issue is that the spade is not a good thing and you know that (though pretend otherwise) and not because we are

[amit]

Reminds me of silly tactics of mocking and labeling people during the Nuke debate and then calling the people mocked as whiners when they protest the quality of discussion.

Wow Bro, now I get it! The Nuke deal debate still hurts, no wonder! And here I was wondering what your Khujli is all about! Thanks for clarifying, believe me I will treat you with utmost respect and affection from now on!

[Sanku]

Really silly and pathetic excuse to give a Chankian twist to sheer blunder at best (already accepted by Shri Menon in case you didnt notice)

Brajesh Mishra in a TV interview clearly indicated that the MEA amd Intelligence officials had nothing to do with this fiasco.

Oh I agree, the point was that EVEN Shri Menon can not defend it, he is reduced to accepting the mistake and covering up using the term drafting error For those who dont realize its a HUGE thing for a diplomat babu and hence GoI to accept mistakes on any count and especially like this.

However here we have truly gifted folks saying how it is actually good. Perhaps they should be sent to replace Shri Menon who makes so many mistakes?

[Sanku]

Reminds me of silly tactics of mocking and labeling people during the Nuke debate and then calling the people mocked as whiners when they protest the quality of discussion.

Wow Bro, now I get it! The Nuke deal debate still hurts, no wonder! And here I was wondering what your Khujli is all about! Thanks for clarifying, believe me I will treat you with utmost respect and affection from now on!

Amit, can you try and take a question instead of always spinning changing the topic and indulging in insults?

First you claim that
Joint statement is good

When that is responded to with logic you cant reply to that so then you change tacks and say
All this is rona dhona only

When it replied to that these tactics have been seen before with examples you claim
Oh the debate hurts

Can you please stick to topic and not degenerate it ?

If you think the declaration was a blunder, fine. So do we all, why are you fighting with us then and accusing us all of strange things?

Stay on topic and dont get personal -- last personal post.

[Raja Ram]

I think this thread has outlived its purpose.

The arguments have ceased as both sides have made their points. The fact of the matter is that everyone who has been in the inside loop of things like GP, KPS Gill, Brajesh Mishra, Yashwant Sinha, B. Raman, MJ Akbar, have all clearly stated that this was a let down of India. Even those in the team have indicated that they have messed up. It is clear from many reports that the climb down and agreement to the joint statement was personally directed by our great leader, strong leader PM. He did not want to listen to his own delegation. His own party spokesman does not want to discuss this. He wants the PMO and government to answer the questions.

All these worthies lack the insight that MMS cheerleaders here on BR possess. That is something that is only shared by the distinguished citizen who holds the office of the Prime Minister of India. The rest of us are to be subjected to mocking adjectives. It is par for the course.

Now that we all have said our piece and arguments are going on for purely argument sake, it is best that this thread is locked up. Otherwise perfectly gentlemen postors on both sides are likely to do some nasty sniping which is best avoided. We are all united in wishing well for India and while we may differ in what is the best for India and have our own personal favorites in terms of leaders and ideologies, it should not come between us individuals and fellow citizens.

Just a request, so please dont come back with brickbats

[sanjaychoudhry]

However, where I defer from ronna dhonna experts like you is that I said that it's not a big deal and that such joint declaration don't amount to much as most nations just pay lip service to such declarations.

This shows how much you know about international diplomacy. Why not sign a joint declaration with China that Arunachal Pradesh is a part of Tibet? Let chinese be happy since these declarations "are not worth the peice of paper they are written on." Since you cannot wriggle out of admitting that MMS committed the blunder of a novice, now you have begun to trash signed joint declarations between two countries as something trivial enough to be used to blow one's nose. Will the spin never end? If there are "rona dhona" experts on this thread, then there are also experts which seem to have inhaled laughing gas.

[amit]

This shows how much you know about international diplomacy. Why not sign a joint declaration with China that Arunachal Pradesh is a part of Tibet? Let chinese be happy since these declarations "are not worth the peice of paper they are written on." Since you cannot wriggle out of admitting that MMS committed the blunder of a novice, now begun to trash signed joint declarations between two countries as something trivial enough to be used to blow one's nose. Will the spin never end?

Sanjay,

What can one say if you equate a joint declaration after a meeting between Gillani and MMS with India signing a pact to give Arunachal to China.

If that's the best you can produce as a counter argument, then good luck to you mate!I'm sure you have PhD in International Diplomacy.

[sanjaychoudhry]

If that's the best you can produce as a counter argument, then good luck to you mate!I'm sure you have PhD in International Diplomacy.

I have a habit of calling a spade a spade and not a hand-held earth-moving instrument. I have no heistation either in admitting to the obvious.

[amit]

If that's the best you can produce as a counter argument, then good luck to you mate!I'm sure you have PhD in International Diplomacy.

I have a habit of calling a spade a spade and not a hand-held earth-moving instrument. I have no heistation either in admitting to the obvious.

So a joint declaration (however, "badly drafted") after a routine meeting between the Indian and Pakistani PMs in a third country is the same as a hypothetical signing of a agreement in which India states that Arunachal is a integral part of China?

Thank you sir your spades are really interesting.

Good day!

[amit]

If you think the declaration was a blunder, fine. So do we all, why are you fighting with us then and accusing us all of strange things?

Stay on topic and dont get personal -- last personal post.

Me fight you??? God forbid!

I don't have the skills of a Matador.

My last post to you Sanku ji. I see no merit in continuing.

[amardeep_s]

sanjay bhai sahab, we have been reading the forum for years, no? don’t you know certain poster/s have oopar se permission to make merry at other's cost. didn’t you read the earlier religions threads, the nuclear thread, the elections thread ?

Dna carries this news quoting pti:

this is funny, we got to S-al-S to talk with terrorists pakis and do S-al-sa and allegedly get a dossier on OUR terrorist activities

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_gi ... wn_1276296

Gilani gave India dossier on its hand in Pak attacks: Dawn

Islamabad: A leading English daily in Pakistan today claimed that Pakistan had handed over a dossier allegedly containing "comprehensive evidence" of Indian involvement in several terrorist acts on its soil -- including the attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team -- to India.
The dossier, with proof of "India's involvement in subversive activities in Pakistan", was handed over by Pakistan prime minister Yousuf Raza Gilani to his Indian counterpart Manmohan Singh during their recent meeting in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt, the Dawn newspaper claimed, quoting sources.

When contacted, an Indian high commission official told PTI that the only information provided by Pakistan in the meeting between the two prime ministers was in its dossier on the Mumbai attacks, which included reference to the five Lashkar-e-Taiba operatives who are undergoing trial in Pakistan, and 13 other suspects declared proclaimed offenders. No information was provided to India on alleged Indian links to attacks in Pakistan, the official said.

Soon after the terrorist attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team on March 3 in Lahore, a Punjab province minister had alleged that India was behind the attack, which was, however, denied by the federal government.

The Dawn reported that the broad outlines of the dossier available with it "reveal details of Indian contacts with those involved in the attacks" on the Sri Lankan cricket
team, and the Manawan police training centre near Lahore.

The dossier lists "safe houses being run by India Research & Analysis Wing in
Afghanistan, where terrorists are trained and launched for missions in Pakistan". The dossier also covers "the Indian connection in terror financing in Pakistan", the report said.

A joint statement released after the Gilani-Singh meeting in Sharm el-Sheikh included a reference to Pakistan's concerns about the situation in Balochistan and other areas. Gilani's close aides said he had taken up the issue of India's alleged involvement in the attack on the Sri Lankan team and other subversive acts in his meeting with Singh.

Foreign office spokesman Abdul Basit said: "Yes, these issues were discussed."

[arun]

Foreign Secretary Shivshankar Menon on the India-Pakistan Sharm el-Sheikh joint statement:

"you can argue that it was a case of bad drafting''

From TOI:

Joint statement with Pak may not have been drafted well: Menon

[SSridhar]

this is funny, we got to S-al-S to talk with terrorists pakis and do S-al-sa and allegedly get a dossier on OUR terrorist activities

No, I consider that as a neat Pakistani operation, something they have been doing for long. In fact, it started with the J&K issue. We took it up to the UN while Pakistan didn't want to and we ended up as the losers.

[SwamyG]

I think this thread has outlived its purpose.

The 'Divided Elite' have to move on I have been in these forums just for a few years now; and I notice just in the last few months there has been lot of vociferous division among the gurus. Maybe the divisions were nuanced a year ago or maybe I am reading too much between the lines. Was this how things were back in the good old days (every forum has good old days)?

Let us see what the World Theater has to offer BRFites next?

[Raja Ram]

SwamyG,
dont get me into trouble ....good ol' days are gone..... this is the new reality.....reality is not permenant...it keeps changing.... all is maya onlee!

BTW, I am only 160 odd posts old as per BR current records so I am not to be counted amongst gurus....gurus can sometimes take adverserial positions.......to bring out nuances more clearly to us students

[SwamyG]

^^^^
My posts are like the pomegranate seeds - plenty; but your 166 posts are like the pearls in oysters - few but precious. You offer a pearl per thread In one thread when I mentioned "Bombay School" of thoughts; ramana gaaru had said it was time for Bombay School of thoughts to move and make way fro Madras School. Sridhar, you, Anujan (and probably Ramana - he has Madras connections) are all gurus of this school of thought. Now I need to piece out from ramana on what this school does ))))

Maybe few more OT posts will send this thread to History (a.k.a Trash)

[negi]

So a joint declaration (however, "badly drafted") after a routine meeting between the Indian and Pakistani PMs in a third country is the same as a hypothetical signing of a agreement in which India states that Arunachal is a integral part of China?

This one takes the cake (of the kind found in villages..) ; so you mean maanniya PMji would agree to a badly drafted agreement ? was it drafted in pure 'Pinglish' I ask..hain ? which respected and oxford educated PM found difficult to grasp ? Btw using similar logic you just have to get longitude and lattitude wrong for a major goofup on AP ...I wonder if PMji knows Chinese . But then ofcourse it will be a Chankian move onlee.

[SSridhar]

. . . I notice just in the last few months there has been lot of vociferous division . . .

Swamy, the Indic dharma have always welcomed diversity and debate. That's what makes life enriching and interesting so long as we accept others are entitled to their opinions however faulty they might appear to be, rather than ridiculing them.

[Philip]

The astonishing admission from Menon that the " drafting" of the joint statement was not well done is a severe indictment upon the Indian MEA and the diplomutts who were responsible for it.Had they peformed so in Stalinist or Soviet times,they would've been sent to Siberia on a one way ticket if they were lucky,normally ending up as targets for practice shooting.They reward that these unworthies deserve is a one-way ticket to Siachen.Under no circumstances must those responsible for this catastrophe and abject surrender to Pak be allowed to get off scot free.They must be held accountable and divested of whatever important posts they hold.A purge is needed of all those involved in mollycoddling Pak for its history of terror against India.Menon and Co. have made Indian diplomacy the laughing stock of the world.Who will take us seriously now if we cannot deal with a disgraced terrorist entity,a failed state like Pak?

[CRamS]

Raja Ram,
It's easy for you to righteously say MMS should not have met Gillani. However, countries don't conduct business but sitting at home to show how cross they are. One reason the US and allies engage North Korea.

USA does that from an absolute position of strength. North Korea is not an existential threat to USA. Its at best a minor irritant that keeps US foreign policy 'experts' well-paid and to travel by first class at tax payer expense to talk about non proliferation and other BS. Please, spare me the delusion of comparing India making profuse love to TSP after they rape us, with US kicking NK on its b@lss under the guise of talks.

CRS,

Nobody is claiming - at least I'm not - that the Jt statement was a great diplomatic coup. It well be a case of MEA dropping the ball.

What I am saying is that such statements matter diddly squat. You just move after a faux pa (if this was one). Yet you read this thread and even highly repected members are acting like it was the biggest foreign policy debacle of this decade.

Once agian, like my favorite batsman VVS Laxman does every now and then after a brilliant set of drives on either side of the wicket, you are also loosing sight of the ball. From India's vantage point, joint statements are a big issue. Once again the US analogy comes to play. US can ignore anything they want, their loyal, over-arching loud-mouthed media will drum beat only on issues of interest to US which the rest of the world laps up, but in India's case, Pakis are going to exploit the joint statement to the hilt by using CNN/Fox/BBC etc. Take the Havana joint statement. Today, it is ipso facto that both India and TSP are victims of terror, thanks to MMS's surrender at Havana. From tomorrow, every news report from AP, to NYT, to BBC, to you name it, will say, both India & TSP accuse each other of sponosring terror against each other. Another feather in TSP's equal equal arsenal against India. And the beauty, from TSP's vantage point is that, while they enjoy equal qual status, they make sure LeT makes us like like wimps, while we sit by and just mouth platitudes as Baluchis are ground to the dust.

As I have been saying, as have others like Raja Ram, there was simply no f$%^&*g reason for MMS to even look at Pakis, let alone surrender. In the absence of militray retaliation, which India is incapable of, the least India could have done is a driven a hard bargain for TSP's begging for talks. Come on, get over it; MMS was just being actuated throuigh remote control from US/UK, and he lwilfully sold India out. No two ways about it.

Hey Hey Ho, MMS has got to go.

[archan]

Baluchs in US seek Indian help to end Pak’s "state terror"

A Baluchi group based in the US on Wednesday appealed to India to help them end the "illegal occupation" and "state terrorism" perpetuated by Pakistan in Baluchistan.

Welcoming the joint statement released after a meeting between Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and his Pakistani counterpart Yusuf Raza Gilani last week on the sidelines of the NAM summit in Egypt, the 'American Friends of Baluchistan' said, "This text gives a rare opportunity to New Delhi to fulfill its international obligations to the long suffering people of Baluchistan."

AFB leaders Rasheed Baluch and Mohammed Ali Baluch said, "now is the chance for India to put Pakistan on the mat" as the threat in Baluchistan comes from Pakistan's illegal occupation of their homeland.

They also asked New Delhi not to tie down Baluchistan with Pakistan support of jihadi terror in Kashmir. "Kashmir is an integral part of India and one of India's main founding fathers, Jawaharlal Nehru, was a blue-blooded Kashmiri," the two AFB leaders said.

In contrast, Baluchistan was never a part of Pakistan but forcibly occupied by Pakistan. "The Baluch are secular people who are fighting for their national survival and regaining their statehood.

[Dilbu]

^^^
Hmm.. someone is definitely looking for moral and political support here. MMS, where art thou?

[Bade]

So what it means is India's support for Baluchis is moving from covert to overt actions. We can now give open moral support for a free and independent Baluchistan just like the Tibet movement.

[sanjaychoudhry]

So what it means is India's support for Baluchis is moving from covert to overt actions. We can now give open moral support for a free and independent Baluchistan just like the Tibet movement.

Pakistan gets away with its moral and diplomatic support to Kashmiri terrorists because it lays claim to the territory due to historical reasons. On what basis is India going to openly give moral and diplomatic support to baloch nationalists carrying out operations inside Balochistan? The moment you do that, Pakistan will extend moral and diplomatic support to Indian Maoists. It will be a disaster if India comes openly to support Baloch nationalists. It will be declared as official supporter of international terrorism.

Pakistan's only objective is to get this Indian support into the open so that it gets a stick to beat India with in the UN and world capitals. The mention of Balochistan in the jt. declaration was Pakistan's coup in this direction. If India was smart, it would have said: "The allegation of our support to Baloch people is so baseless, it doesn't merit a response, what to talk about putting Balochistan in hard print in the joint declaration." Indian diplomats related to this declaration should be summarily dismissed for treason. This must be the first time in history when a state has officially accepted to discuss an accusation of supporting terror against another country. This shows how strategically and politically blind Hindus still are.

[Dilbu]

Saar,
Ofcourse India has nothing to do with the uprising in Balochistan. But you see India's and particularly MMS's, aim is a stable and developed TSP which is in the larger interest on the world, ummah and south asia. so why cant we lend an assisting hand in solving TSP's Baloch problem which is destabilising it? We will mediate and broker a deal or LOC or whatever to solve this problem peacefully for our birathers. But ofcourse all of this is because Geelanahi sahib requested to talk about this in sharm al sheik otherwise India has no interest whatsoever in this issue.

[ramana]

OK now that the experts(outside GOI) and the establishment(inside GOI) have agreed, that it was mistake and possibly due to a 'drafting error', can we focus on why such a cognitive dissonance occured? How was the establishment so focussed on the joint statement that they allowed a drafting error to creep in? What were the root causes and the underlaying circumustances for that to prevail?

Thanks, ramana


For starters MMS wanted the joint statement as he was facing the US Secy visit and didnt want to be lectured on need for resumptions of talks. One way out is to ensure that such interactions with TSP dont occur before a high profile US visit. OTH Hillary Clinton broke her arm and had to postpone her visit to after the NAM summmit. So hand of fate involved here.

The fact that the Nightwatch guy had mentioned the TSP moves earlier than it was made shows some sort of hidden coordination from some arm of USG with TSP to show India in bad light.

And Indian propensity to treat TSP as a wayward sibling who can be made to see reason (undo Partition) is also a factor since Gandhiji's fasts to force GOI to part with Treasury even before the safe handling of refugees was ensured.

[pgbhat]

India has always maintained Balochistan to be an "internal" matter for Pakistan... It is the Pakis who are and wanted to put it in joint statement .... and would India bother to put Maoists on a joint statement with P'stan?? ..... now that Pakis have put it in joint statement India is willing to discuss it..... since it is Pakis internal matter NOT India's why are we breaking into a sweat??

[sanjaychoudhry]

India has always maintained Balochistan to be an "internal" matter for Pakistan... It is the Pakis who are and wanted to put it in joint statement .... and would India bother to put Maoists on a joint statement with P'stan?? ..... now that Pakis have put it in joint statement India is willing to discuss it..... since it is Pakis internal matter NOT India's why are we breaking into a sweat??

You are not understanding. India has agreed to specifically discuss with Pakistan only one thing -- "Pakistan's allegation of India's support to Baloch terrorists." Nothing more, nothing less. It is a wetdream that Pakistan has asked India to discuss with it its "Baloch problem."

[pgbhat]

You are not understanding. India has agreed to specifically discuss with Pakistan only one thing -- "Pakistan's allegation of India's support to Baloch terrorists." Nothing more, nothing less. It is a wetdream that Pakistan has asked India to discuss with it its "Baloch problem."

Well let them give evidence ...if No evidence Pakis are fecked ..... IF there is one then we will discuss the "root cause" and make it the "core issue" .

[sanjaychoudhry]

Well let them give evidence ...if No evidence Pakis are fecked

Pakistan's evidence will be tabled by it in the UN.

Do you realise what has happened -- from accusing Pakistan of terrorism in Kashmir, India will now be defending allegations of its support to Baloch freedomfighters. For every summit meeting you call with Pakistan and raise the issue of Kashmir terrorism, you will be spending half of the time discussing "proof" that Pakistani diplomats will table about India's support to Balochistan.

Pakistani will now be "officially" justified in demanding in every joint meeting of officials and prime ministers, a separate dicussion on India's support to "Baloch terrorists." India has officially agreed to this arrangement through a joint declaration. Do you now realise the magnitude of the blunder?

[pgbhat]

x-posting

If the stuff had any credibility they would have released to public in pdf format.

Exactly they would have done 26/11 equal equal and released everything from "fotus" to "transcripts" and have people discuss it on TV with the "evidence". None of that has happened.

Let the Pakis table the evidence in UN.

[archan]

Plus, the evidence has to be "enough" and "actionable" and not "outdated information".

[AnimeshP]

With my limited understanding of International relations and geo-politics, my opinion is that India has been handed a knife by including the Baluchistan issue in the joint statement. Now, whether we use it to carve up Pakistan or use it to commit harakiri remains to be seen.

[sanjaychoudhry]

Plus, the evidence has to be "enough" and "actionable" and not "outdated information".

ISI will have no dearth of this evidence, believe me, and in every joint meeting, they will produce dossiers after dossiers to derail any meaningful discussion on Paki support to terrorism in India. This "evidence" will be discussed in newspapers. Essentially, India has put itself on exactly the same pedestal as official supporter of terrorism as Pakistan.