Indian Education System

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shiv
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by shiv »

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/133 ... ssmen.html
Training doctors or businessmen?
Vatsala Vedantam
Of the hundreds of medical colleges in the country, a mere 25 can truly claim to be institutions of excellence. The casual manner in which the so called regulators of healthcare/medical education have gone about recognising and even approving these colleges has resulted in mediocre teaching and learning facilities.

Admissions to UG and PG courses have been shockingly engineered through middlemen and education brokers, ignoring all accepted norms. Such blatant violation of rules and regulations may have resulted in churning out thousands of sub-standard doctors in the country.

<snip>

Medical education in India is a fragmented process, largely driven by social and financial requirements of the students. Many teenagers, influenced by parental and peer pressures, opt for a career in medicine because it is impressive, influential and lucrative. If the same advantages can be reaped by a career in the civil services, they even opt for the the IAS examination after qualifying to be a doctor. Just as qualified engineers opt for management studies, we find medical students swapping their courses and careers thereby wasting the education they received in a medical college, while at the same time, depriving society of a committed physician.

Enormous waste
Regulatory bodies like the MCI should have taken serious note of this enormous wastage, and introduced reforms like raising the minimum age for medical college admissions, as is practiced in the US where a basic four-year degree is mandatory to study medicine which ensures more maturity in young aspiring doctors. Why, their entrance tests for medical colleges also take note of a student’s aptitude for social service, in addition to her ability to complete the course successfully.

On the contrary, medical education in several states in this country is driven by monetary considerations for the trustees of those colleges. Instead of training their students to become caring physicians, such colleges encourage them to convert their professions into money making enterprises by levying exorbitant capitation fees at the time of admission which they are covertly encouraged to recover from their patients in the course of their future careers as doctors. When regulatory bodies fail to correct these discrepancies, they have no right to continue as such. The Supreme Court’s directive is the appropriate answer to these fundamental issues.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by putnanja »

This village teacher is the proud owner of three patents
...
Singh, a science master at Government High School in Mehtan village in Kapurthala district, owns three patents for creating devices for visual understanding of geometry. His innovations make getting out of the angle tangle as easy as drawing a line.

Pained to see students circumscribed by rote system even for geometry and waning interest for the subject in Punjab, Singh says it all started with a cardboard figure that he had cut out to explain concepts of circle to his students. He then went on attaching scales and protractors to the figures, and thus started his geometrical progression to fame.

“Each apparatus comprises 15 devices that cover geometry lessons from classes VI to X. One device can explain 10 to 15 theorems by moving the attachments,” he claims.
...
DGSE Krishan Kumar, who took Singh to the Ministry of HRD, says, “The devices have been widely appreciated, and we are working out modalities for their manufacture and distribution in 18,000 Punjab schools. Every school will get one apparatus for its mathematics lab, and Singh has been told to prepare documentation to help teachers.”

According to Patent Information Centre (PIC) scientist Gurharminder Singh, a patent-holder gets 10 per cent royalty in Punjab and 15 per cent outside the state. Singh’s teaching aid costs Rs 3,000, but the figure can be brought down in case of large-scale production.
...
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by RajeevK »

AICTE chief booked; official in CBI net for taking bribe
The CBI on Thursday booked the Chairman and three other officials of the All-India Council for Technical Education (AICTE) in a case of corruption, even as it arrested the Council’s Member-Secretary along with a ‘middleman’ while allegedly accepting a bribe of Rs 5 lakh from the owner of an engineering college in Andhra Pradesh.
The CBI registered a case of criminal conspiracy (120 B of IPC) and relevant sections of Prevention of Corruption Act, 1988, against AICTE Chairman RA Yadav, Advisor Prof HC Rai, Regional Officer Om Dalal and Deputy Director Rominder Randhawa for allegedly demanding money from a Faridabad-based engineering college for extending permission for additional intake of students in the college.
vera_k
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by vera_k »

^^^

WOW
Stan_Savljevic
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Stan_Savljevic »

India Begins Sweeping Crackdown on Higher-Education Regulator
http://chronicle.com/news/index.php?id= ... _medium=en
Amber G.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Amber G. »

x-post from Math thread - 3 silver and 2 Bronze + 1 Hon. Mention for India in International Math Olympiads.
Stan_Savljevic
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Stan_Savljevic »

Govt. may allow IITs, IIMs to open campuses abroad
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holn ... 211570.htm

Lease to be cancelled if schools don't give 15 pc quota: Sibal
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holn ... 212087.htm

Supreme Court refuses to stay HC order on Kannada language
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holn ... 211677.htm

NRI professors to return home due to slowdown
http://www.andhraheadlines.com/NRI/Brow ... rtID=46730
Stan_Savljevic
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Stan_Savljevic »

The following verdict sets a precedent and puts aside a logistical nightmare and a major time-warp the case had festered across almost all IITs...
No illegality in appointment of IIT-Madras director: court
http://www.hindu.com/2009/07/22/stories ... 310400.htm
Stan_Savljevic
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Stan_Savljevic »

Indian scientist elected to world welding institute
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holn ... 222082.htm
Distinguished scientist and Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research (IGCAR) director Baldev Raj has been elected the vice-president of the International Institute of Welding (IIW) for 2009-12. He is the first Indian to be elected to the post in the 62-year-old institute, an authority on standards and practices that has 53 countries as its members.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Rahul M »

stan, you have mail in yahoo inbox. please acknowledge.
mohan
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by mohan »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8176095.stm


Indian bill urges free education
A landmark bill is due to be introduced in the Indian parliament that seeks to guarantee universal, free and compulsory education for children.

The legislation applies to children between the ages of six and 14.
Under it, a quarter of the places in private schools will be reserved for poor children and the government will set up neighbourhood schools in three years.
Mohan
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by svinayak »

putnanja
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by putnanja »

Akshut
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Akshut »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news ... 940382.cms

Cabinet approves seven new IIMs
NEW DELHI: The country will soon have seven new IIMs, of which four will start functioning from next year with the Union Cabinet today approving a HRD ministry proposal to set up these management institutes.

The new Indian Institutes of Management (IIMs) will be set up in Tami Nadu, Jharkhand, Chhattisgarh, Haryana, Jammu & Kashmir, Uttarakhand and Rajasthan.

Aimed at generating a highly competent and trained manpower, the institutes are also expected to act as a major catalyst for developing a knowledge society that would inevitably impact on the economic growth of the country.

In the first phase, four IIMs at Tiruchirappalli (Tamil Nadu), Ranchi (Jharkhand), Raipur (Chhattisgarh) and Rohtak (Haryana) will be set up in 2009-10, which would become functional from academic session 2010-11.
:D :D
The IIMs in Jammu & Kashmir, Uttarakhand and Rajasthan will be set up in 2010-11.

In phase-I there would be an intake of 140 students in the PG course and by the end of phase-II, it would reach 560 students per year.

The 11th Five Year Plan endorsed by the National Development Council (NDC) in December 2007, envisaged establishment of seven new IIMs in the country.

With these new IIMs, the country will have 13 B-schools. The Centre has also established one IIM -- Rajiv Gandhi Indian Institute of Management (RGIIM) in Shillong -- which has commenced its first academic session from 2008-2009.
does 2010-11 mean next year?? i m in final year of engg. degree n its a great news if it means next year.. kudos to HRD ministry.. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Singha »

in a executive note attached to formation of new IITs, the GOI has allowed them to recruit non-Phds as lecturers as opposed to Phds as assistant-prof. the IIT directors have however rejected the idea and will stick to recruiting only Phds as faculty I believe.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Stan_Savljevic »

Singha wrote:in a executive note attached to formation of new IITs, the GOI has allowed them to recruit non-Phds as lecturers as opposed to Phds as assistant-prof. the IIT directors have however rejected the idea and will stick to recruiting only Phds as faculty I believe.
One article said, the established IITs get around 40-50 Phd applicants per job, so why this bullshit move?! Perhaps the GoI is trying to ward off trouble because the new IITs do not get such number of applicants. If they get 1 or 2 per opening, they should be super-happy. So GoI is trying to wash its hands off from its decision to open new IITs without fixing the old ones as is, lest the ddm make noise about how there are no faculty members etc. Cover your ass in glorious gold font, the real losers are students who will end up in these places expecting the new IITs to be like the old ones. Luckily, most students are not completely ignorant about the old vs the new, and there is a good chance the new IITs will be treated like outcasts.

Thing is the IITs/IISc cannot hire new faculty members unless they have 3+ years of post-Phd experience. When I last checked with IISc folks, they seemed really strict on this requirement. The diros want this stupid rule deleted so that they can attract more folks, but the GoI wants to persist with it in its own slumber. Eventually this rule will come off, but what is eventual is left to a guess.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Raja Bose »

^^^ IITs are not that strict about 3 years post-PhD experience. I know 3 people who went straight from PhD. to Asst. Prof (or whatever is the tenure-track Prof. called in IIT).
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Stan_Savljevic »

As far as I know, tenure is an amrikan concept. In India, it used to be the case that "once hired, rarely fired" unless of course you indulge in crime on the campus or elsewhere. You may not get promoted unless you bring GoI contracts or write thadaal papers etc. IISc was and I guess is still strict on this rule. I enquired circa 2007. The issue is more for smart PhD candidates who do their PhDs inside the IIT/IISc system. For someone from outside the dept may put pressure on the diro to waive the rules saying "Phd from amrika, lets not miss this candidate" types. The new IITs are gonna follow the rule book even more carefully as the leeway for adjustments are not in place yet, so the ones taking the mighty pinch are the ones who most deserve the fresh strength. It is to be accepted that the first round of the new IITs are gonna be ad-hoc. The next iteration has to be better than the current. A JEE aspirant expecting the new to be the same as old is just being in la-la land. The GoI is indulging in intellectual dishonesty by trying to cover its ass, it has to come clean to the parents and students concerned saying "Come, grow with us." There are pros and cons when you start afresh, more camaraderie, more hands-on stuff, more possibilities to learn if you spend time to learn etc. Not peddle bullshit or allude to "old == new." But with the Kota-troopists taking their knives out, may be GoI and Sri Sibal are thinking "Screw em anyway."

Btw, Sri Sibal wants CBSE (PCM) cutoff of 85% (or equivalent numbers for other boards) in 12th board exams. I am confused by this logic: 10th boards are being made optional, 12th boards are becoming more critical for JEE. Is Sri Sibal following Sri Gangan Prathap's old articles on layering the future? I would nt be surprised by the reach of the pan-iit agenda.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Raja Bose »

Girl with 92% kills herself over LSR seat

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS ... 949914.cms

:evil: :evil:
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Singha »

for better or worse here it is - change we can - entire CBSE will shift to grading system immediately and Class-X exams will become optional.

I can see a lot of the ipod gen picking up on the optional thing and demanding
that its cruelty and mental torture for class-XII exams so make it optional.

meantime korea/japan/taiwan/singapore run their schools like SEAL training units :mrgreen:

--
p.s. JEE should be downgraded to the level of a SAT which is how the world beating students entering elite khanate univs go through. in any case our best brains are going to take Mba and enter strategic fields like inventing CDOs and ARMs. they dont need a 2 yr thrashing in PCM.

our system believes in wasting 2 yrs to id some hardcase types who enter
the gate. their system believes in taking a talented cadet officer and making
a soldier out of him.

its quite clear which system is winning - it aint ours. its time to move on,
the world has changed, we are 60 yrs out from 1947, what served us well
in the past cannot always work... some of you diehard iitm types will object
ofcourse.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Stan_Savljevic »

Singha wrote: some of you diehard iitm types will object ofcourse.
sure do....
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Nihat »

Acharya wrote:Image

http://www.indianmuslims.info/files/map ... a_2003.gif

How much is propaganda
it's not propaganda , mostly accurate - just not convenient.
Tanaji
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Tanaji »

"mostly accurate" is correct, except that it is subtle psyops.

Notice how the map says "500 Muslims massacred" at Nellie. And further down it says "1800 people killed in riots" for Mumbai.

Of course, technically correct all, but note the clever juxtaposition of "people" with "Muslims". They are not outright saying 1800 Muslims killed in riots in Mumbai, but thats what they want you to believe and the impression they strive to give.

As for numbers of unemployed and education, there are many reasons for the lower literacy, but systemic discrimination in all spheres is probably not the one among them, which is what they would have you believe.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by negi »

Singha wrote:for better or worse here it is - change we can - entire CBSE will shift to grading system immediately and Class-X exams will become optional.
Grades are fine infact as good as marks as long as process is consistent ; but I did not get logic behind making it optional .Ultimately what is gonna happen is owing to sheer competition good schools are any way gonna ask for Class X marksheets for admission to Clas XI...so nothing changes.I believe more than the structural change in the way exams are conducted we need to re-visit the syllabus .
p.s. JEE should be downgraded to the level of a SAT which is how the world beating students entering elite khanate univs go through. in any case our best brains are going to take Mba and enter strategic fields like inventing CDOs and ARMs. they dont need a 2 yr thrashing in PCM.
our system believes in wasting 2 yrs to id some hardcase types who enter
the gate. their system believes in taking a talented cadet officer and making
a soldier out of him.
I have never appeared for SAT so wont be able to draw a comparasion; as for the JEE I believe a touch of subjective questions which check for logical reasoning and application might as well be helpful (aim is to discorage the KOTA system...i.e. to keep the exam pattern unpredicatable).
its quite clear which system is winning - it aint ours. its time to move on,
the world has changed, we are 60 yrs out from 1947, what served us well
in the past cannot always work... some of you diehard iitm types will object
ofcourse.
I have always believed that it is failure to convert Btechs into Mtechs and BSc one's into Msc or PhD which is a cause for concern. A Btech is more of a jack of all trades and fresh out of college unless the chap is lucky/bright enough to land a job in a company that offers him a job profile as per his competency (not a common phenomenon) he/she might end up not utilizing the 4 years of Btech.Unless in IT VITY this might be an area for concern for his/her career growth in technical track might be hindered without Mtech/PhD (in core engineering sectors).
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Singha »

in OECD countries, what kind of jobs do BS in pure sciences get into ? do most of them continue to MS ? (phy, chem, math, bio)
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Abhijeet »

I've been reading through the NCERT primary school textbooks for a few subjects recently. I was pleasantly surprised by the general approach of the textbooks, and the overall philosophy of the curriculum (they have a separate curriculum explanation document on their website). The approach seems very enlightened in general and not focused on rote learning. This is a very different approach from when I was in school. The textbooks themselves seem more like story books or puzzle books, with each chapter presented in the form of a story with illustrations, and open-ended questions and activities for students to do. There are hardly any remnants of the old-style textbook that I remember, with terse explanations, diagrams of the human body to memorize, and lots of practice problems at the end of each chapter.

I wonder how teachers deal with the lack of practice material, since the textbooks have hardly more than one or two problems per topic that students can solve on their own. I'd guess they use workbooks or other supplementary materials for that. But overall, I was very impressed that a central government organization has attitudes that are this evolved.

The NCERT curriculum information, and all textbooks, are available on their website at http://www.ncert.nic.in.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Rahul Mehta »

Making exams optional will reduce the quality in students, perticularly in Maths and Sciences.

The exams make them study. No exams, less study.

We should have board exams in 3rd, 5th, 8th along with 10th and 12th.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by shravan »

Rahul Mehta wrote:We should have board exams in 3rd, 5th, 8th along with 10th and 12th.
Then I would have killed my self in 3rd standard. First the government should take care of color blind & dyslexia students.

I was never able to write in exams. So stopped education after 10th.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Stan_Savljevic »

The other side of the story is the claim that "I never learned much because I was forced to mug." Sure may be true, sure the exams may be evil. But the solution to that is to make the exams more fairer to the takers both in terms of syllabus as well as evaluation, more intelligence-gleaning, more of a fun process in a long-term viewpoint rather than abandon it and throw the duster. All that takes hard work for the system is unfair to the rural folk by a whopping margin. The GoI or the cbse dont wanna fix the mess they entrenched for that will mean cutting off leaks from the money pipeline and ensuring that cashflow allocation to the rural sector is utilized to the last bit. And they are taking a sweet way out by mandating shortcuts. Inertia of the elephant, the only way to wake it is to give a massive kick to the unmentionable areas. Oh well, aint the chinese idiots planning something?
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by kasthuri »

Sagarika's view of engaging ex-civil servants, retired professors seems to be a good idea to bring in quality teachers into schools. I think bringing in good teachers should be a top priority for any education reform. Her column is here: Learning difficulties

In any case, Sibal seems to be doing a good job compared to his predecessor.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by vera_k »

Rahul Mehta wrote:Making exams optional will reduce the quality in students, perticularly in Maths and Sciences.

The exams make them study. No exams, less study.

We should have board exams in 3rd, 5th, 8th along with 10th and 12th.
But these exams are pointless under the current system because the students are held responsible if they do poorly in the exams. The government does not shut down schools and colleges or fire teachers if the students do not succeed.

However having such exams may be a very good idea when coupled with home study options.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by vera_k »

kasthuri wrote:Sagarika's view of engaging ex-civil servants, retired professors seems to be a good idea to bring in quality teachers into schools. I think bringing in good teachers should be a top priority for any education reform. Her column is here: Learning difficulties
Too much statist control. The bureaucracy she recommends will soon degrade to the same level of competence as any other government service. A better approach would be to set up a regulator that monitors quality of schools based on objective results-oriented criteria (for e.g. % age of students passing, male/female ratio, dropout ratio). Then the government can subsidise private schools using grants from its funds and shut down poorly performing schools using the leverage it will gain as a result.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by rajsunder »

Nihat wrote:Image

http://www.indianmuslims.info/files/map ... a_2003.gif

How much is propaganda

it's not propaganda , mostly accurate - just not convenient.
The image itself is a propaganda, see the J & K state and Arunachal State map on the image, The whole image stinks of the Paki and chinki propaganda.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Stan_Savljevic »

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1090910/j ... 474844.jsp
Pay hope for IIM, copycat fear for govt ---- CHARU SUDAN KASTURI

New Delhi, Sept. 9: The human resource development ministry may lift a cap restricting the number of IIT and IIM professors eligible for a higher salary based on their experience — a key demand in an unprecedented pay protest by the faculty. A 40 per cent cap on the number of IIT and IIM professors eligible for the experience-based salary raise is likely to be lifted in a revised pay notification, government officials confirmed.

But ministry officials fear the move — conveyed by HRD minister Kapil Sibal to IIT faculty representatives yesterday — may trigger copycat demands from other institutions. IIT and IIM faculty have for the past three weeks been protesting a new pay regime that snips salaries recommended by a central panel and ignores a slew of suggested incentives.

The Telegraph was the first to report on the new pay regime and the government’s decision to cut the proposed salaries. IIT and IIM professors start with a salary of Rs 48,000 a month with a post-based increment — known as the academic grade pay (AGP) — of Rs 10,500 a month under the notified pay regime. But the notified regime has a provision of a higher AGP, of Rs 12,000 a month, for professors who have held the post for over six years.

The notified pay structure, however, clarifies that only 40 per cent of professors at an institute can receive the higher AGP at any point in time. The cap, IIT and IIM faculty have argued, may stall the growth of relatively younger professors, as seniors in the faculty would fill the higher salary posts till they retire. The 40-per cent limit could also lead to nepotism and politics involving institute administrators in picking beneficiaries of the higher salary, the faculty have argued.

But Sibal’s consent to lifting the cap at the IITs and the IIMs could fuel similar demands from central universities and the National Institutes of Technology (NITs). Central universities have a 10 per cent cap on professors eligible for a higher AGP while the NITs have a 20 per cent restriction. “The arguments that the IIT faculty have used are equally valid for universities and NITs too,” an HRD ministry official said.

Representatives of the Professors Forum of India — the country’s largest apolitical block of central university teachers — today met Sibal demanding that the 10 per cent cap be lifted. The ministry has already agreed to the single biggest demand of the IIT and IIM faculty. The pay regime at the centre of the controversy places assistant professors in a salary range known as “pay band three”, with a starting salary of Rs 30,000 a month and a post-based increment of Rs 8,000 a month.

Unlike pay scales for central universities, however, there is no provision in this regime for upgrading assistant professors to a higher pay range starting at Rs 37,400 a month after three years of teaching. IIT and IIM faculty have argued that their job requirements mandate that only those with three years’ teaching experience can apply for the post of assistant professor — and demanded higher starting salaries. The demand has been accepted.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Stan_Savljevic »

IISc campus to open its gates to undergraduates
http://beta.thehindu.com/news/cities/article16791.ece

Road to be named after Prof. C.R. Rao
http://www.hindu.com/2009/09/10/stories ... 940300.htm
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by shaardula »

rajsunder wrote:
Nihat wrote: http://images.google.com/url?source=img ... -eMnt4Mi2g

http://www.indianmuslims.info/files/map ... a_2003.gif

How much is propaganda

it's not propaganda , mostly accurate - just not convenient.
The image itself is a propaganda, see the J & K state and Arunachal State map on the image, The whole image stinks of the Paki and chinki propaganda.
this visualization is misleading. KA and MH have very similar percentage of muslims ( i checked stats in Sachar Report).

any know how to get district wise data on population, that is downloadable?
manish
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by manish »

shaardula wrote: this visualization is misleading. KA and MH have very similar percentage of muslims ( i checked stats in Sachar Report).

any know how to get district wise data on population, that is downloadable?
Shaardula saar, this is not exactly related to population data, but long ago on this very thread, I had posted something related to the literacy and school attendance stats for the 'minority community'. See here
The survey is slightly dated, I did not check for a more recent version.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by SwamyG »

My wife's neice is made to carry 10+ kg of books everyday. So during our visit, they wanted a backpack with wheels from masa :cry: . The fees people pay for school seems to be surreal. I know education had long ago become a business; but considering the fact that in several schools the teachers do not teach as the system has been set up in a way that all students take tuition outside the classes.

It is a rats race - parents desire to send their kids to the allegedly top-notch school in their area, they end up paying vast amount of money, then the kids still end up taking tuition. What has gone up in the last decade or so is the fees schools charge.
Tanaji
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Tanaji »

It is a rats race - parents desire to send their kids to the allegedly top-notch school in their area, they end up paying vast amount of money, then the kids still end up taking tuition. What has gone up in the last decade or so is the fees schools charge.
I think there are other factors in play as well. Parents *know* that no one teaches anything in schools anymore, and the saner ones know that from beginning. So choosing a school for the quality of education is lower down the criteria list. Whether or not they admit it, the choice is made on other considerations, more importantly, what is the social background of students that attend. If most of the student community is from a middle class/ upper middle class background the school has more demand, its educational qualifications be damned. If a school is getting students from a slightly lower section of the society (not necessarily utter slums), it has less demand. The thinking is that the latter will "spoil" their precious brats.

Note that in the cities with improving incomes, even traditionally people from slums can afford good schools, which is precisely what is upsetting the middle class parents. As far as education is concerned, that is something for which the tution classes are for!

The entire education sector in India is a giant scam, designed to churn out mindless regurgitators... all this implemented under the dubious excuse of socialism, and desire to control what is being taught so that its "free from colonialist influences".... All done by leaders that send their children to the West so that their own brats are not affected by the travesty.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Rahul M »

tanaji, one reason why big schools are preferred are the standard of peers and I daresay that plays a crucial factor irrespective of what the school actually teaches.
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