Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

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anupmisra
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by anupmisra »

The Chinis have been replaced by.....

The Baloch! Kiss - A$$ time!

Balochs love for Pakistan deeper than ocean
The masses, most of them having lived for decades at the mercy of sardars and nawabs of feudal mindset, want emancipation from slavery, poverty, ignorance and exploitation. This is how Balochi-speaking young and old men in Rawalpindi and Islamabad intercommunicate with others, asserting their love for Pakistan is deeper than the ocean.
Some more cliches accompanying the new found love-fest:
Search for bread and butter is part of life of every Pakistani. Isn’t it?
How the Baloch elders endorsed the idea of Pakistan can be judged from their positive response to the statements and appeals of the architect of Pakistan. :roll:
The man assured the people of Balochistan that in Pakistan all classes will get even justice and fair play.
the enemies have again chosen some so-called nationalist groups of Balochistan for consummation of their vile designs.
The enemies are using the same tactics as the imperialists did in the past to fasten their grip over the natives through tribal chiefs in their pay.
The words of the father of the nation live on even when he is no more with us.
Never! :rotfl:
RAW’s involvement has not been ruled out by analysts and international think tanks.
Pakistan’s strength lies in unity
You are free! You are free to go to your temples. You are free to go....No wait! That weather-beaten cliche is part of another story.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by anupmisra »

Back to the stone age - Part II
The prime minister has said the country would have been in the stone ages had a proposal under the last regime to export power to India been adhered to. But we must ask what makes him think we have escaped a descent into medieval times?
Better the stone age than the Jurassic age they are in now!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Vikas »

War with Pak no option, talks only way: Pranab Mukherjee

Dear Mannu and Pannu, Pls give us a reason to believe that you guys are working on some great Chanikian strategy, which we hoi polloi do not understand. Next time when bombs go off in some train or Market in India, What will you say ?
At least leave something that you can repeat once the terrorists strike even if we know that would be just for public consumption.
Yes we know, GOI does not have the balls to to even raise a little finger against Pakistan but atleast keep your Chaddi up and let the illusion of Balls be there.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by shiv »

shravan wrote: ---
US hails Pak Army's redeployment from eastern to west border
Thursday, July 30, 2009, 14:23 IST
Hmmmm..
Washington: Special US representative for Af-Pak Richard Holbrooke on Thursday praised the Pakistani leadership for shifting some of its forces stationed along its eastern border with India to the western frontier bordering Afghanistan to fight out Taliban and al Qaeda.


"The Pakistanis have moved a very large :!: :?: number of troops from their eastern border to their western border. That's a historically significant redeployment," he told reporters at a State Department press briefing on his recent trip to the region.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by pgbhat »

---
Washington: Special US representative for Af-Pak Richard Holbrooke on Thursday praised the Pakistani leadership for shifting some of its forces stationed along its eastern border with India to the western frontier bordering Afghanistan to fight out Taliban and al Qaeda.


"The Pakistanis have moved a very large :!: :?: number of troops from their eastern border to their western border. That's a historically significant redeployment," he told reporters at a State Department press briefing on his recent trip to the region.
All psy-ops onlee as usual unkil doing his bit for its front line all-lie by trying to improve its H&D.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by shiv »

pgbhat wrote:---
Washington: Special US representative for Af-Pak Richard Holbrooke on Thursday praised the Pakistani leadership for shifting some of its forces stationed along its eastern border with India to the western frontier bordering Afghanistan to fight out Taliban and al Qaeda.


"The Pakistanis have moved a very large :!: :?: number of troops from their eastern border to their western border. That's a historically significant redeployment," he told reporters at a State Department press briefing on his recent trip to the region.
All psy-ops onlee as usual unkil doing his bit for its front line all-lie by trying to improve its H&D.
No in fact this would not improve his echandee. If Holbrooke had said "India is the biggest enemy and Pakistan needs to keep troops on the Eastern border" it would have suited the Pakis best. It is an outright contradiction of what Pakis said just a few days ago - you will find the news if you search the earlier pages of this thread.

In fact Pakistan is likely to deny this in a few days and repeat, as we saw in the news a few days ago "India is the biggest threat and there is no question of moving troops from the Indian border'

Nothing is a straightforward as it may seem on the surface..
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Vivek_A »

TFT is out

In the highlights: Khaled Ahmed has an article on how TSP is falling behind and how it's all because India is unfair to TSP

Bloviator-in-chief says balochistan is quid pro quo for action against the LeT



Such Gup
Our leaders, past & present

While we sweat it out here in the Land of the Pure, with electricity shortages and an economy going south, our leaders, past and present are having a much better time of it this summer. They’re all in and around London. Shortcut is commuting between London and New York, The Man of Steel arrived at his sumptuous flat in Park Lane, London, and has just left for a brief sojourn in Europe. His begum has just attended the lavish wedding of a friend and business partner in Manchester and returned to London. Mush the Commando is in his new apartment overlooking London’s lush and cool Hyde Park and is preparing to go to Europe for a look-see. They say Mush is finding it difficult to get himself a decent lawyer because he’s not willing to pay the fee. Billoo Bhutto , chairman of Big Ben’s party, is in his South Kensington London apartment, waiting to go Europe with a group of friends. Back at the ranch, The Man’s Talented Bro’s son has imported a pair of Siberian Tigers (on the World Wildlife Fund’s endangered species list) to Lahore, supposedly intended for his palatial residence in the Galiyat mountains. Who says Pakistan is a failing state?


Vying for her hand

In all this doom and gloom, we’re happy to report that at least one person is having a whale of a time. And that’s the comely young Miss Dunya. The lady has not one but two desperate suitors eating out of her hand. In fact, they are vying for her hand in marriage, we hear. One, a bright spark of a cricketer, says he has the greater claim because they’ve been in a relationship for a long time. The other, a film star, says Miss Dunya was betrothed to him long before the cricketer met her. Both men are united in their plaint that they’ve outspent each other in trying to win the winsome young lady’s approval. Who’ll be the winner? It’s anybody’s guess.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by pgbhat »

shiv wrote:
No in fact this would not improve his echandee. If Holbrooke had said "India is the biggest enemy and Pakistan needs to keep troops on the Eastern border" it would have suited the Pakis best. It is an outright contradiction of what Pakis said just a few days ago - you will find the news if you search the earlier pages of this thread.

In fact Pakistan is likely to deny this in a few days and repeat, as we saw in the news a few days ago "India is the biggest threat and there is no question of moving troops from the Indian border'

Nothing is a straightforward as it may seem on the surface..
Can't disagree with you ... but where exactly have the troops been moved?? Blowchistan to carry out their usual genoci .. er.... COIN ops ? :-?
Can we get hold of the latest orbat??
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

The ISI is planning another attack on India (Times Now last night). In any case, we can easily predict that the next attack is coming. Besides, there have been reports of new bunkers, river works, strengthening of bunds etc along the border. The Pakis are also wary of the Cold Start. Pakistan would not therefore like to re-deploy India specific troops elsewhere.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Pranav »

Counterfeiting of Indian currency by Pakis is becoming a huge problem. Need to move to a cashless system. One possibility - link mobile-phone accessible bank accounts to the UID, and make it easy to make micro-payments via mobile phones. Should also be possible to equip phones with finger-print based locks. A side effect will be to make corruption and black money more difficult. Should also tie this in with a digital signature system.

--------------------------------
Watch out, you may be holding a fake Rs 500 note
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS ... 839715.cms

Around Rs 1,69,000 crore of fake money is in the system. And it's growing. TOI looks into the growing threat.

* Last month when Maharashtra Crime Branch and Anti-terrorism Squad sleuths caught six persons with counterfeit currency worth over Rs 9 lakh, they themselves couldn't make out the difference between the fake and genuine notes. "They have 95% features of genuine notes," says an official. The provisions of the Unlawful Activities Prevention Act (UAPA) have been invoked -- for the first time against fake currency.

* Zahoor Ahmad Mir of Rawalpora, Srinagar, withdrew Rs 2,000 from an ATM. He was told by a shopkeeper after his weekend shopping that the currency was fake. A frantic Zahoor rushed to the bank, the ATM of which had coughed up the 500-rupee notes. "But the bank officials refused to accept it. They suspected I had got the fake note from somewhere else," he says.

The proliferation of fake Rs 500 notes has just got bigger. You never know when you are holding one — or more. Even ATMs are disgorging them, indicating the counterfiets are so good that bankers are failing to detect them. Despite measures taken by RBI, the home ministry and intelligence agencies, the fear of the fake has grown — from Kashmir to Kanyakumari, from Gujarat to Assam.

Officials say there's a high volume of fake notes of Rs 100, Rs 500 and Rs 1,000 in the market, and that they have had limited success so far in controlling their spread. The Naik Committee, set up to assess the menace of fake currency, says counterfeit money in the range of Rs 1,69,000 crore is sloshing around the system. And just a tiny fraction of it has been seized: Rs 63 crore.

Both the government and common people are aware of the problem, but feel ill equipped to deal with it. In Chandigarh, traders, banks employees and petrol pump attendants turn suspicious whenever they get a Rs 500 note. "A petrol station attendant refused to accept the Rs 500 note I gave him and warned me about the glut of fake notes in the market," said Rajinder Singh, a resident of Sector-27. Even in Delhi, shopkeepers take extra time in accepting high denomination notes. They first hold a note against bright light and ensure that a watermark is intact.

Many in Kerala are worried over outsourcing loading of currency in the ATMs to private agencies. "My salary account is with a private bank and I also have a savings account with SBI. Lest I should get a counterfeit note, I have now started transferring money only by cheques," says A K Nair, a government employee.

"The extent of the problem can be gauged from the huge gap between actual seizures and circulation of fake Indian currency notes (FICN). Although several steps have been taken by the finance ministry and RBI, weeding out FICNs may take long," says a senior home ministry official. According to security agencies, Uttar Pradesh, Gujarat, Maharashtra, Andhra Pradesh and Karnataka have reported the maximum seizure of fake notes in recent years. The latest haul in Ghaziabad, Noida and Meerut reveal how organized gangs, said to be funded by Pakistan, have penetrated right up to Delhi's borders.

Shopkeepers' associations in Delhi are actively involved in monitoring the counterfeits, many of which come out of ATMs and banks. Says Sanjeev Mehra, president of Delhi's Khan Market Traders' Association, "Every shopkeeper has been issued a circular listing 10 ways of detecting a fake note. The local bank in the market has an officer posted for this very purpose."

Experienced shop-keepers feel the texture of the note, particularly when it's of a large denomination, and hold it under lights to see the water-mark. However, if this year's three major seizures — amounting to over Rs 35 lakh — in UP and Maharashtra are any indication, it's the quality of FICN that has alarmed the security agencies. The paper, say intelligence sleuths, is almost identical to the original, which makes their identification very tough.

The UP STF suggests most of these notes were printed in the security press at Malir Cantonment in Karachi and three other printing presses in Pakistan. Maharashtra's security agencies, too, believe that the fake notes seized by them were printed in a Pakistan government printing press at Quetta.

Fearful businessmen and shopkeepers are installing machines to check counterfeits. In Kerala, the state-run SUPPLYCO (Kerala State Civil Supplies Corporation Limited) with 12 petrol pumps has issued specific instructions to its outlets to be wary of fake notes.

But there are limitations. For instance, large business outlets that handle heavy transactions can't run a counterfeit check every time it receives cash. "During a hectic day, one can't check every Rs 500 and Rs 1,000 note," says Mujtaba Haaziq, manufacturer of signages in Panaji. "In any case, it's the government's job to tackle the problem," says Barnabe Sapeco, a well-known Panaji restaurateur.

The police say arresting the carriers has not taken them to FICN masterminds. "The carriers are briefed on a need-to-know basis and are not aware of the entire network," said a Maharashtra crime branch official. Intelligence agencies are fairly certain that the brains behind the FICN racket are sitting in Bangladesh and Pakistan. As proof, they cite the seizure of an Indian currency-minting machine in Bangladesh in 2006.

(With inputs from Vishwa Mohan & Richi Verma (Delhi), Mateen Hafiz (Mumbai), Pervez Iqbal Siddiqui (Lucknow), Anantha Krishnan, (Thiruvananthapuram), Anand Bodh (Chandigarh) and Gauree Malkarlekar (Panaji)
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by pgbhat »

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

The Peshawar region of the Emirate publicly executes four criminals
The Lashkar-e-Islami (LI) executed four men on Thursday after pronouncing them guilty of abduction and murder at a self-styled court
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by John Snow »

Where is the DRI I have been asking this question since 1998 when the HM LKg started talking about fake 500 notes.

I hope our netas are not taking RS in bribes, demand only USD.

By the way in Zimbabwae after trying with billion and trillion dollar notes, they settled to USD as local currency.

I am happy to report (even to IRS) that I am a Trillion Air, I gave 1 USD and I got

1 Note Of One hundred Trillion dollars

2 Notes of Fifty billion dollars

1 Note of Fifty Million dollars

1 Note of Hundred thousand dollars

1 Note fifty thousand dollars.

If our netas wont wake up we will end up like Zimbabwae very soon. (its matter of confidence in our case, not economy unlike zimbabwae)
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by somnath »

Its a serious problem, but we are on our way to being Zimbabwe?

The total money supply outstanding is about 50 lac crores currenctly..

http://www.rbi.org.in/scripts/WSSView.aspx?Id=13841

So if the Naik committee is right, fake notes is about 3% of the money supply...

Point to note is that fake money supply can cause harm to the economy only when it causes a drastic change in the targeted money supply by the Central Bank, thereby causing inflation etc...Just to put in perspective, the incremental M3 being created now in India every year is about 10 lac crore...Recently we had to get notes printed abroad, after many years if I am not mistaken..So even if the 1.69 lac crore number is correct - how much is being "added" every year as a % of that? 10%, 20%? Thats about 20k cores, a piffling amount that really does not cause a ripple in India's monetary management..

Barring trying to cause a disruption in money supply, fake notes only have nuisance value..Because whenever any economic agent "finds out" a fake note, he will go to the supplier economic agent to return it and get a valid note..The cycle continues till the economic agent being returned to is a bank, which in turn goes to RBI and exchanges it for a new valid note..

the fake note thoery is a huge conspiracy theory that has been used in history - Iran printing dollars, SU printing USD and GBP at some stage during the cold war etc...But given the amount of money supply slopshing around in a large modern economy, to really be able to subvert it using counterfeit presses is a farcical effort - not even worth a sensible saboteur's time!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by John Snow »

not so fast, economy works on expectations and not on rational statistical analysis.

Its not percentage games, it is confidence games. The persons running a red light is minimal therefore lets not waste ticketing the offenders?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by somnath »

John Snow wrote:not so fast, economy works on expectations and not on rational statistical analysis.

Its not percentage games, it is confidence games. The persons running a red light is minimal therefore lets not waste ticketing the offenders?
Rest of the country is brimming with that...Barring a few perpetual doomsday analysts who are always predicting a sellout or catastrophe!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Anujan »

X-posted Nightwatch comments
A controversy has arisen in Indian policy circles over the Prime Minister’s joint statement with Pakistani Prime Minister Gilani last week about resuming dialogue, moving beyond the issue of Pakistan-based terrorism. Earlier this week Prime Minister Singh suggested that his government’s absolute condition for talks, which Finance Minister Mukherjee repeated above, had been met by Pakistan’s acknowledgement in a legal dossier that the LeT launched the Mumbai attack from Pakistan. This prompted a storm of demurrers.

Singh’s conciliatory attitude is not shared widely in his government and in Parliament, which has now exposed to the public its factional disagreements about the sufficiency of Pakistani suppression of the LeT.

NightWatch’s basis for prediction is that Pakistan will never suppress the LeT because its attacks compel India to engage Pakistan or fight. Pakistani leaders, as well as Indian counterparts, recognize that India’s recession-immune economic growth rate depends on sustained peace on the sub-continent.

Singh is making the best of a bad situation and throwing Pakistan a bone to help Prime Minister Gilani maintain stability. The message is that if Pakistan has troubles, India is not to blame.
It really just boils down to this. We either talk to them or we should fight them. We have it-vity to worry about, the opinion of our COAS, travel advisories and WKKs. So we cant fight. Hence MMS & Co is right when he says "there is no alternative but to talk". What are our other options ?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Pranav »

A fake rupee from pakiland is a rupee that has been stolen from the Indian people. That's enough reason to be concerned about it.
somnath wrote: So if the Naik committee is right, fake notes is about 3% of the money supply...

Point to note is that fake money supply can cause harm to the economy only when it causes a drastic change in the targeted money supply by the Central Bank, thereby causing inflation etc...Just to put in perspective, the incremental M3 being created now in India every year is about 10 lac crore...Recently we had to get notes printed abroad, after many years if I am not mistaken..So even if the 1.69 lac crore number is correct - how much is being "added" every year as a % of that? 10%, 20%? Thats about 20k cores, a piffling amount that really does not cause a ripple in India's monetary management..

Barring trying to cause a disruption in money supply, fake notes only have nuisance value..Because whenever any economic agent "finds out" a fake note, he will go to the supplier economic agent to return it and get a valid note..The cycle continues till the economic agent being returned to is a bank, which in turn goes to RBI and exchanges it for a new valid note..

the fake note thoery is a huge conspiracy theory that has been used in history - Iran printing dollars, SU printing USD and GBP at some stage during the cold war etc...But given the amount of money supply slopshing around in a large modern economy, to really be able to subvert it using counterfeit presses is a farcical effort - not even worth a sensible saboteur's time!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by SSridhar »

Selected Nuggets
Against Indus treaty

Writing in Jang, Hamid Mir stated that starting with 1947, India wanted the waters of Ravi, Sutlej and Beas Rivers and wanted to give Pakistan Indus, Chenab and Jhelum. No civilian Prime Minister agreed to the deal India was pushing through the World Bank. Then General Ayub came and did what India wanted through the Indus Waters Treaty that he signed in 1960 with chalak (cunning) Prime Minister of India, Nehru.

Qazi Sahib’s warning

Writing in Jang, Qazi Hussain Ahmad stated that an American writer, Stephen Cohen, had written that Pakistan will get American aid as long as there were Taliban around. Qazi Sahib observed that Pakistan was stretching out the war against Taliban to keep on getting this aid.

Tariq Chaudhry’s view

Former famous senator Tariq Chaudhry wrote in Nawa-e-Waqt that America was pushing India to become the big power of South Asia with a route to Central Asia. After India takes over Afghanistan, it will annex the tribal belt of Pakistan and reach down to Gwadar and take the land route to Central Asia.

Hafizabad offended

According to Jinnah, the population of Hafizabad left their homes and came out on the streets to destroy property when they heard that a pair of trousers imported from China had kalima written on the trade mark tag attached to the trousers. They said their emotions were greatly disturbed and they wanted the said Chinese company blacklisted. {What happened to all that tall and deep relationship ?}
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by csharma »

A few years ago some Pakistanis were boasting about being one of the fastest growing economies.

Now look at this. low growth will mean social unrest and instability.




http://in.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/id ... 0920090707

Pakistan meets IMF amid struggle to revive growth

Pakistan's economy has likely entered an extended phase of low growth, a trend that would require rigorous economic planning and its successful execution to address the entrenched structural weaknesses," said Asif Qureshi, a director at Invisor Securities.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by somnath »

Pranav wrote:A fake rupee from pakiland is a rupee that has been stolen from the Indian people. That's enough reason to be concerned about it.
Not true at all...Read what I wrote..
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by somnath »

csharma wrote:A few years ago some Pakistanis were boasting about being one of the fastest growing economies.
In fact (I think) in 2003, Shaukat Aziz boasted that Pakistan is the fastest growing economcy in South Asia! (which was true for that year, they grew faster than India in 2002-03)...

They had some good things going for them during the middle stages of the Musharraf era - a lot of private foreign investment from the Middle East..But they have been shown their place now..
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Pranav »

somnath wrote:
Pranav wrote:A fake rupee from pakiland is a rupee that has been stolen from the Indian people. That's enough reason to be concerned about it.
Not true at all...Read what I wrote..
The guy who gets a fake note from an ATM cannot get his money back. Meanwhile, his account has already been debited.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by somnath »

Pranav wrote: The guy who gets a fake note from an ATM cannot get his money back. Meanwhile, his account has already been debited.
Not true, he can go to the bank and ask for a replacement - the private banks would typically do it on the spot..PSUs might take a bit of time filling up papers, investigating...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Pranav »

somnath wrote:
Pranav wrote: The guy who gets a fake note from an ATM cannot get his money back. Meanwhile, his account has already been debited.
Not true, he can go to the bank and ask for a replacement - the private banks would typically do it on the spot..PSUs might take a bit of time filling up papers, investigating...
No, the bank denies that the note came out of their ATM.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Virupaksha »

somnath wrote:
Pranav wrote: The guy who gets a fake note from an ATM cannot get his money back. Meanwhile, his account has already been debited.
Not true, he can go to the bank and ask for a replacement - the private banks would typically do it on the spot..PSUs might take a bit of time filling up papers, investigating...
have you ever tried it in your life :shock: Why dont you try it once before giving out these wisdoms?

No bank will give a real note in exchange for fake note, period- unless they show undisputable proofs that the note was brought straight from atm and not exchanged anywhere in between, which is to say never.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by somnath »

Pranav wrote: No, the bank typically denies that the note came out of their ATM.
I would be very surprised...Never heard of any such complaint in my bank! :)
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Pranav »

Somnath wrote:
I would be very surprised...Never heard of any such complaint in my bank! :)
In any case, somebody has to bear the loss - because the person who introduced the fake note into the system has already received goods and services for it, and he is typically nowhere to be found.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Virupaksha »

somnath wrote:
Pranav wrote: No, the bank typically denies that the note came out of their ATM.
I would be very surprised...Never heard of any such complaint in my bank! :)
why dont you please give me out the name of the bank and let us report the finding to the police and then I will sit back and enjoy the fun,

In the mean time, did you notice that by doing what the bank did, the bank has taken a loss of that much amount? No loss due to fake currency and your previous wisdoms, what happened to them?

We have an "economist" here that a country faces no loss due to fake currency :rotfl: eat this, all the LMU graduates. Can you ever beat this?
Last edited by Virupaksha on 31 Jul 2009 13:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by shravan »

ravi_ku wrote: No bank will give a real note in exchange for fake note, period- unless they show undisputable proofs that the note was brought straight from atm and not exchanged anywhere in between, which is to say never.
The same ATM will have more than one fake note... :roll:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by somnath »

ravi_ku wrote:
have you ever tried it in your life :shock: Why dont you try it once before giving out these wisdoms?

No bank will give a real note in exchange for fake note, period- unless they show undisputable proofs that the note was brought straight from atm and not exchanged anywhere in between, which is to say never.
Well most of the time, if you go with the note and the ATM receipt the bank will replace the note..I have come across quite a few cases like that on Bank Street (aka DN Road, Mumbai) in all my years there - never saw any branch manager asking the guy to bugger off...and its not difficult at all..Typically ATMs would record the "note numbers" - so all that the bank has to check is the number of the counterfeit note with the ATM record for verification (most banks would have this facility)...
Pranav wrote:
In any case, somebody has to bear the loss - because the person who introduced the fake note into the system has already received goods and services for it, and he is typically nowhere to be found.
Again no, the final economic agent for the dispensing of the note has to be a bank - the bank will go to RBI to repalce the note..And people cannot "launder" money by simply "buying" a cup of chai...To do it in a large scale a more sophisiticated means of "implanting" the notes in the banking system has to be used..
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Virupaksha »

shravan wrote:
ravi_ku wrote: No bank will give a real note in exchange for fake note, period- unless they show undisputable proofs that the note was brought straight from atm and not exchanged anywhere in between, which is to say never.
The same ATM will have more than one fake note... :roll:
That is not the proof to show that the note in your hand is from them and which bank is going to allow to open up their atm in front of you and then show all the notes?

Can you please name such banks. I will steer clear from it for all my deposits but will keep all my loans there. :wink:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Pranav »

somnath wrote:
Again no, the final economic agent for the dispensing of the note has to be a bank - the bank will go to RBI to repalce the note..And people cannot "launder" money by simply "buying" a cup of chai...To do it in a large scale a more sophisiticated means of "implanting" the notes in the banking system has to be used..
Even if the RBI replaces the note, which I don't think the RBI will do, the number of notes in circulation has increased by the number of fake notes. Printing money is never free - a new note gets its value by making other notes less valuable.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by somnath »

ravi_ku wrote: why dont you please give me out the name of the bank and let us report the finding to the police and then I will sit back and enjoy the fun,

In the mean time, did you notice that by doing what the bank did, the bank has taken a loss of that much amount? No loss due to fake currency and your previous wisdoms, what happened to them?

We have an "economist" here that a country faces no loss due to fake currency :rotfl: eat this, all the LMU graduates. Can you ever beat this?
I didnt say that - read my posts above - only that the real damage that is being attempted - subvert execution of monetary policy - is very very diffficult to achieve, in fact no one's achieved it in recorded history..the system will obviously take some losses, but very minor, certainly not something that can cause a Zimbabwe out of India (limited point)..

Whats is LMU BTW? There is a LUMS in Lahore - I read my econ in a far better place though :wink:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Virupaksha »

somnath wrote:
Pranav wrote:
In any case, somebody has to bear the loss - because the person who introduced the fake note into the system has already received goods and services for it, and he is typically nowhere to be found.
Again no, the final economic agent for the dispensing of the note has to be a bank - the bank will go to RBI to repalce the note..And people cannot "launder" money by simply "buying" a cup of chai...To do it in a large scale a more sophisiticated means of "implanting" the notes in the banking system has to be used..
You are wrong. RBI will replace zilch - nada. First know about how banks work. The branches burn off those fake/extremely soiled notes before a RBI official in case of big currency chest branches or the bank's currency chest manager.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by somnath »

^^^ Its going way OT here...Please read my posts..

1. ATMs keep records of bank note numbers typically. So if someone comes into a branch with an ATM recipt and the fake note it is easy for the bank to determine the veracity.

2. The cost of printing banknotes is a less than a few pips (one hundredth of a basis point) of the value of the notes..

3. To subvert the monetary system, fake notes need to be in a substantial % of o/s money supply of the economy - very difficult to achieve, especially for India (I have given the numbers before)..

4. For most cases of torn/fake/soiled notes, RBI replaces them (for torn/soiled notes, even to individuals)...After all the money supply to the system remains the same as far as RBI is concerned - they are replacing a fake unit with a real one.

Ergo, while fake notes is a security risk, there is nothing to suggest that it is leading to India becoming Zimbabwe - limited point...
Last edited by somnath on 31 Jul 2009 13:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Pranav »

somnath wrote:^^^ Its going way OT here...Please read my posts..

1. ATMs keep records of bank note numbers typically. So if someone comes into a branch with an ATM recipt and the fake note it is easy for the bank to determine the veracity.

2. The cost of printing banknotes is a less than a few pips (one hundredth of a basis point) of the value of the notes..

3. To subvert the monetary system, fake notes need to be in a substantial % of o/s money supply of the economy - very difficult to achieve, especially for India (I have given the numbers before)..

Ergo, while fake notes is a security risk, there is nothing to suggest that it is leading to India becoming Zimbabwe - limited point...
It's a matter of theft. We can't be OK with Pakis stealing lakhs of crores from the Indian people.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Aditya_V »

somnath csharma wrote:
A few years ago some Pakistanis were boasting about being one of the fastest growing economies.




In fact (I think) in 2003, Shaukat Aziz boasted that Pakistan is the fastest growing economcy in South Asia! (which was true for that year, they grew faster than India in 2002-03)...

They had some good things going for them during the middle stages of the Musharraf era - a lot of private foreign investment from the Middle East..But they have been shown their place now..
Middle east insvestment contributing to that growth is absolute Hogwash, it was the uspecified amount of payments through Black budgets in GWOT which caused that growth, remmber 9/11 time most of money came in FY2002-03.
The moment US economy went to recession and money from Black budgets slowed thier economy crashed.
OH BTW even the Dec 2005 earthquake 5.1 billion was partly spent towards SAAB-Ericsson AEW, F-16's etc. and even that money stopped thier economy crashed in 2008

Imagine how big the black budgets payments must have been if 1) IMF- $7.1 billion 2) WB- unspecified amount 3) Friends of Pakistan $5.1 Billion 4) US official AId- 1.5 billion +500 million+ 1 Billion reimbursements has unable to replace.

If USA, CHINA and Saudi together stop funding PAK for a couple of years the whole country will crash. They are nothing but terrorists and Beggars acting on the world largesse
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by Virupaksha »

somnath wrote:^^^ Its going way OT here...Please read my posts..

1. ATMs keep records of bank note numbers typically. So if someone comes into a branch with an ATM recipt and the fake note it is easy for the bank to determine the veracity.
This is new to me. Can you show proof.

2. The cost of printing banknotes is a less than a few pips (one hundredth of a basis point) of the value of the notes..
Again wrong, there was an article 1-2 years ago that it takes 37Rs for printing a 100 Rs note with all its security fatures.
3. To subvert the monetary system, fake notes need to be in a substantial % of o/s money supply of the economy - very difficult to achieve, especially for India (I have given the numbers before)..
try exchanging a 1000 Rs note in a small town and see how each of the shop keeper try to wash their off it. Even in hyderabad, I had to sign on many 500 rupee notes.

They cant ascertain whether it is fake or true. So the confidence in the monetary system is already eroded.
Ergo, while fake notes is a security risk, there is nothing to suggest that it is leading to India becoming Zimbabwe - limited point...
How about this, the fakers get money out of thin air, they dont pay any taxes create a black market and so on. Is Zimbabwe only the point of depression?

create an extreme example and then show that the instance is not that extreme and talk as if nothing happened. Yaa, what happens if you murder someone, after the nuke bomb and the american president killed millions. Compared to him you are a saint and do we question some one who is a saint? voila, a saint = murderer.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

Post by somnath »

^^^ Given its OT, my last post on the topic...

Currency notes are a medium of exchange of goods and services - it can be anything, even a piece of stone as long as all economic agents agree to that..

the real intention behind fake currency is to somehow wreck monetary stability in the country - its mighty diffuclt to do, in fact impossibel for a coun try like ours..There is no "stealing" of anything here - you can only steal real goods and services...

the real threat is in terms of the fake currecny being used for terrorist operations - so it is a threat, but not an economic one...
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