Indian Naval Discussion

[vavinash]

Yes, why don't you look up the cost of ADS then talk. If you are under the delusion than CSL can actually deliver it on time or cost then you are going to be disappointed. The gorky will have a life of 30-35 years in IN and it is good enough for IN.

[bala]

India ready to build nuke aircraft carrier: Kakodkar

Sometime ago I wondered why we can't build a Nuclear powered Aircraft carrier. Now the DAE Chief says India can build one. Time to power the ADS as a nuclear powered craft. The next step is to build the size of Nimitz class 100,000 tonnes aircraft carriers.

[Nihat]

India ready to build nuke aircraft carrier: Kakodkar

Sometime ago I wondered why we can't build a Nuclear powered Aircraft carrier. Now the DAE Chief says India can build one. Time to power the ADS as a nuclear powered craft. The next step is to build the size of Nimitz class 100,000 tonnes aircraft carriers.

We may be better off building smaller carriers which have the capacity of anywhere between 25-30 jets in the future , besides the cost and time involved in building a Nimitz type carrier , I also don't think it's very well suited to our strategic needs.

[vavinash]

A 60 k tonne ship is necessary. ADS is a good start but you need a ship that can take atleast 30-32 fighter aircrafts, 3-4 hawkeye (types) and 12-16 choppers.

[Nihat]

ADS at this time of being constructed is designed to be a conventional AC , I think - so it's not possible to alter plans now unless we scrap all work done on it.

Perhaps our 3rd AC (after Gorki and ADS) would be a nuke powered one , since the plan is to start construction for that once ADS is launched in 2014 , it gives us significant time to improve on current reactor technologies.

[SKrishna]

This is the reason the the US P-8As would not have MAD...

Link

MAD and Unmanned: Boeing's MagEagle
Posted by Graham Warwick at 8/6/2009 8:40 AM CDT
The US Navy plans to award Boeing a contract to flight test an air-launched version of the ScanEagle unmanned aircraft carrying a magnetic anomaly detector (MAD) for submarine localization and tracking. The MagEagle will be based on Boeing's ScanEagle Compressed Carriage (SECC) air-launched small UAV, which will conduct ground-launched flight tests this year.


The MagEagle Compressed Carriage (MECC) flight test is intended to support the Navy's high-altitude ASW conops, which is being developed to avoid the turbofan-powered P-8 Poseidon having to descend from altitude to detect, track and attack submarines, reducing fuel burn and extending airframe life. Other elements of the concept include Lockheed Martin's HAAWC wing kit for the Mk54 torpedo to allow launch from high altitude. HAAWC could also be used to sow sonobuoy patterns at standoff range.

While the US Navy's P-3Cs have a MAD, its P-8As will not - the requirement was deleted in 2008 to save weight, the Navy arguing sonobuoy acoutics would be sufficient to locate and track submarines- so air-launching the MagEagle would fill any gap, providing the capability to follow submerged submarines for up to 24 hours. The Poseidon will have a new hydrocarbon sensor designed to detect the fuel vapors from ultra-quiet diesel submarines.


ScanEagle Compressed Carriage (SECC) is designed to be air-launched and either expended or recovered the same way ScanEagle is - by flying into and engaging the suspended wire of the SkyHook recovery system. It's not clear if that's the plan for MECC, but Boeing's concept is that SECC would be recovered on land or at sea for return to the launching aircraft's base.

Nice concept... We should lure the amerikhans into giving us the same...

[Philip]

Haven't we insisted that our version will have MAD? I thought that that was a pre-requisite?

[krishnan]

Lure with what? Like "give us and we will use this to detect osama's sub"?

[SKrishna]

Lure with what? Like "give us and we will use this to detect osama's sub"?

How about the MMRCA to deal to Boeing's Hornet....

[krishnan]

As if they care. They dont even want to give the proper AESA radar as part of the MRCA deal

[abhiti]

Yes, why don't you look up the cost of ADS then talk. If you are under the delusion than CSL can actually deliver it on time or cost then you are going to be disappointed. The gorky will have a life of 30-35 years in IN and it is good enough for IN.

I looked it up already before my earlier post. Why don't you look it up? While you are at it also look up the history of CSL who is building ADS. Also I don't understand good enough...what I understand is cost vs. lifespan.

[RayC]

While one can debate on eqpt. I thought it would be a good recap as to what is the ‘Environment’ in the Indian Ocean especially from the Indian standpoint and to see what could be the rquirement.

Extract from India and Indian Ocean

The Indian Ocean has long been the hub of great power rivalry and the struggle for its domination has been a perennial feature of global politics.

It is third-largest of the world’s five oceans and straddles Asia in the north, Africa in the west, Indochina in the east, and Antarctica in the south. Home to four critical access waterways—the Suez Canal, Bab-el Mandeb, the Strait of Hormuz and the Strait of Malacca—the Indian Ocean connects the Middle East, Africa and East Asia with Europe and the Americas.

Nearly half of the world’s seaborne trade is through the Indian Ocean, and approximately 20 percent of this trade consists of energy resources. It has also been estimated that around 40 percent of the world’s offshore oil production comes from the Indian Ocean, while 65 percent of the world’s oil and 35 percent of its gas reserves are found in the littoral states of this Ocean. Unlike the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans, almost three quarters of trade traversing through the Indian Ocean, primarily in the form of oil and gas, belongs to states external to the region. Free and uninterrupted flow of oil and goods through the ocean’s SLOCs is deemed vital for the global economy and so all major states have a stake in a stable Indian Ocean region. It is for this reason that, during the Cold War years when US-Soviet rivalry was at its height, the states bordering the Indian Ocean sought to declare the region a “zone of peace” to allow for free trade and commerce across the lanes of the Indian Ocean. Today, the reliance is on the US for the provision of a “collective good”: a stable Indian Ocean region.

China emerged as the biggest military spender in the Asia-Pacific in 2006, overtaking Japan, and now has the fourth-largest defence expenditure in the world. The exact details about Chinese military expenditure remain contested, with estimates ranging from the official Chinese figure of $35 billion to the US Defence Intelligence Agency’s estimate of $80-115 billion. But the rapidly rising trend in Chinese military expenditure is fairly evident, with an increase of 195 percent over the decade 1997-2006. The official figures of the Chinese government do not include the cost of new weapons purchases, research or other big-ticket items for China’s highly secretive military. From Washington to Tokyo, from Brussels to Canberra, calls are rising for China to be more open about the intentions behind this dramatic pace of spending increase and scope of its military capabilities. The Chinese navy, according to the Defence White Paper of 2006, will be aiming at a “gradual extension of the strategic depth for offshore defensive operations and enhancing its capabilities in integrated maritime operations and nuclear counter-attacks.”

China’s navy is now considered the third-largest in the world behind only the US and Russia and superior to the Indian navy in both qualitative and quantitative terms.The Peoples’ Liberation Army (PLA) Navy has traditionally been a coastal force and China has had a continental outlook to security. But with a rise in its economic might since the 1980s, Chinese interests have xpanded and have acquired a maritime orientation with an intent to project power into the Indian Ocean. China is investing far greater resources in the modernization of its armed forces in general and its navy in particular than India seems either willing to undertake or capable of sustaining at present. China’s increasingly sophisticated submarine fleet could eventually be one of the world’s largest and with a rapid accretion in its capabilities, including submarines, ballistic missiles and GPS-blocking technology, some are suggesting that China will increasingly have the capacity to challenge America. Senior Chinese officials have indicated that China would be ready to build an aircraft carrier by the end of the decade as it is seen as being indispensable to protecting Chinese interests in oceans. Such an intent to develop carrier capability marks a shift away from devoting the bulk of the PLA’s modernization drive to the goal of capturing Taiwan.

With a rise in China’s economic and political prowess, there has also been a commensurate growth in its profile in the Indian Ocean region. China is acquiring naval bases along the crucial choke points in the Indian Ocean not only to serve its economic interests but also to enhance its strategic presence in the region. China realizes that its maritime strength will give it the strategic leverage that it needs to emerge as the regional hegemon and a potential superpower and there is enough evidence to suggest that China is comprehensively building up its maritime power in all dimensions. It is China’s growing dependence on maritime space and resources that is reflected in the Chinese aspiration to expand its influence and to ultimately dominate the strategic environment of the Indian Ocean region. China’s growing reliance on bases across the Indian Ocean region is a response to its perceived vulnerability, given the logistical constraints that it faces due to the distance of the Indian Ocean waters from its own area of operation. Yet,
China is consolidating power over the South China Sea and the Indian Ocean with an eye on India, something that comes out clearly in a secret memorandum issued by the director of the General Logistic Department of the PLA: “We can no longer accept the Indian Ocean as only an ocean of the Indians… . We are taking armed conflicts in the region into account.” China has deployed its Jin class submarines at a submarine base near Sanya the southern tip of Hainan Island in South China Sea, raising alarm inIndia as the base is merely 1200 nautical miles from the Malacca Strait and will be its closest access point to the Indian Ocean. The base also has an underground facility that can hide the movement of submarines, making them difficult to detect.

The concentration of strategic naval forces at Sanya will further propel China towards a consolidation of its control over the surrounding Indian Ocean region. The presence of access tunnels on the mouth of the deep water base is particularly troubling for India as it will have strategic implications in the Indian Ocean region, allowing China to interdict shipping at the three crucial chokepoints in the Indian Ocean. As the ability of China’s navy to project power in the Indian Ocean region grows, India is likely to feel even more vulnerable despite enjoying distinct geographical advantages in the region. China’s growing naval presence in and around the Indian Ocean region is troubling for India as it restricts India’s freedom to manoeuvre in the region.

Of particular note is what has been termed as China’s “string of pearls” strategy that has significantly expanded China’s strategic depth in India’s backyardThis “string of pearls” strategy of bases and diplomatic ties include the Gwadar port in Pakistan, naval bases in Burma, electronic intelligence gathering facilities on islands in the Bay of Bengal, funding construction of a canal across the Kra Isthmus in Thailand, a military agreement with Cambodia and building up of forces in the South China Sea. Some of these claims are exaggerated as has been the case with the Chinese naval presence in Burma. The Indian government, for example, had to concede in 2005 that reports of China turning Coco Islands in Burma into a naval base were incorrect and that there were indeed no naval bases in Burma. Yet the Chinese thrust into the Indian Ocean is gradually becoming more pronounced. The Chinese may not have a naval base in Burma but they are involved in the upgradation of infrastructure in the Coco Islands and may be providing some limited technical assistance to Burma. Given that almost 80 percent of China’s oil passes through the Strait of Malacca, it is reluctant to rely on US naval power for unhindered access to energy and so has decided to build up its naval power at “choke points” along the sea routes from the Persian Gulf to the South China Sea. China is also courting other states in South Asia by building container ports in Bangladesh at Chittagong and in Sri Lanka at Hambantota as well as helping to build a naval base at Marao in the Maldives. Consolidating its access to the Indian Ocean, China has signed an agreement with Sri Lanka to finance the development of the Hambantota Development Zone, which includes a container port, a bunker system and an oil refinery. The submarine base that China has built at Marao Island in the Maldives has the potential to challenge the US navy in Diego Garcia, the hub of US naval forces in the Indian Ocean. It is possible that the construction of these ports and facilities around India’s periphery by China can be explained away on purely economic and commercial grounds but for India this looks like a policy of containment by other means.

China’s diplomatic and military efforts in the Indian Ocean seem to exhibit a desire to project influence vis-a-vis competing powers in the region, such as the US and India. China’s presence in the Bay of Bengal via roads and ports in Burma and in the Arabian Sea via the Chinese-built port of Gwadar in Pakistan has been a cause of concern for India. With access to crucial port facilities in Egypt, Iran and Pakistan, China is well poised to secure its interests in the region. China’s involvement in the construction of the deep-sea port of Gwadar has attracted a lot of attention due to its strategic location, about 70 kilometres from the Iranian border and 400 kilometres east of the Strait of Hormuz, a major oil supply route. It has been suggested that it will provide China with a “listening post” from where it can “monitor US naval activity in the Persian Gulf, Indian activity in the Arabian Sea, and future US-Indian maritime cooperation in the Indian Ocean.” Though Pakistan’s naval capabilities do not, on their own, pose any challenge to India, the combinations of Chinese and Pakistani naval forces can indeed be formidable for India to counter.

It has been suggested that the Chinese government appears “to have a very clear vision of the future importance of the sea and a sense of the strategic leadership needed to develop maritime interest.” This is reflected in the attempts that China has made in recent years to build up all aspects of its maritime economy and to create one of the world’s largest merchant fleets with a port, transport and ship-building infrastructure to match. In this respect, the Indian Ocean has an important role to play in the Chinese efforts towards establishing its predominance as the main maritime power in the region, resulting in Sino-Indian competition for influence.

Despite a significant improvement in Sino-Indian ties since the late 1990s, the relationship remains competitive in nature and using its rising economic and military profile, China has been successful in containing India within the confines of South Asia by building close ties with India’s key neighbours, in particular with Pakistan.

[RayC]

Equally interesting is this development:

It is interesting to note that given the modern circumstances, the US Navy is constructing a whole new type of ship that perfectly matches the requirements of a changed maritime strategy: The Littoral Combat Ship (LCS). LCS 1, the USS Freedom, has already been commissioned, and provides for a revolutionary flexibility. Besides a gun up forward and a missile launcher aft, the ship provides for a large space or volume inside that can be filled with different ‘boxes’. These box modules can contain a vast variety of different capabilities, just as required by the mission of the ship, and can be set up inside the ship independently. The modules can be changed in less than 72 hours without the need of an improved port. LCS-class ships have a maximum speed of 50 knots and a crew of only 40 men (plus respective stuff to operate the different modules). Its three main purposes are anti submarine warfare, anti surface warfare, and mine countermeasures. It uses unmanned systems to an extend that exceeds all other ships of the United States Navy.

From Vision 2020 US Navy

[ckapadia]

Does India have any foreign Naval bases? China seems to have plenty - including in the Maldives. I thought they were meant to be an Indian ally.

[rohiths]

I don't think the Chinese have overt naval bases outside of the PRC.
They may have a few listening posts in Burma and Terrorist Land but not true full fledged military bases.
I think the operation against Somali Pirates was the first time Chinese Navy entered Indian Ocean in a combat mission after 600 years

[RayC]

Bases in the Indian Ocean

Bases in the IOR

Includes photos.

[Singha]

I am highly doubtful about the conception of Marao(maldives) as a naval
base of any sort. seems to be a tiny island surrounded by a shallow lagoon
with a jetty. doesnt look suitable for a naval base by any yardstick.

Hambantota may be a chinese funded port, but doesnt mean SL will make
it a PRC naval base - not unless we fall asleep or get into a losing war with
the lankans.

[ckapadia]

I have heard people on this forum refer to the Maldives as a submarine base or is this Psy-Ops?

[munna]

RED ALERT!! Very significant, might be a dry run or actual run to sneek dangerous stuff into India. Suspicious North Korean ship detained off Andamans

K R Nautiyal, DIG, Coast Guard, Andaman and Nicobar Region, told TOI over phone that ``several things were amiss'' about merchant vessel MV Musen, which later declared that it was carrying 16,500 tonnes of sugar from Thailand to Umm Qasr in Iraq. ``She shouldn't have dropped anchor here in the first place, she didn't respond to our signals, and her log book was found to be vague,'' Nautiyal said

In fact, some years ago, India had detained another North Korean ship that was carrying missile components for Pakistan. Concerns about North Korean vessels have heightened since reports of Pyongyang's help to Myanmar's nuclear bomb-making programme have appeared. Myanmar's nuclear ambitions are also reportedly helped by some Pakistani nuclear scientists.

Musen had dropped anchor off Hut Bay island on Wednesday afternoon for which it had no permission. When Coast Guard ship Kanakalatha Barua approached it, Musen tried to escape, forcing coast guard men to fire in the air. The ship finally ``obeyed'', and was brought to Port Blair early on Thursday

[dinesha]

Russian shipyard seeks $60 mln loan to complete Indian frigates

Russia said in late June it would meet its obligations to deliver the frigates to India by 2012.
An industry official said the first ship would be floated out this year, the second, in spring 2010, and the third a bit later, adding that the Indian government had provided sufficient and timely project financing.

A delegation of Indian military officials, led by India's deputy chief of the naval staff, Vice Adm. Raman P Suthan, visited the Yantar shipyard last October and said they were satisfied with the pace and the construction quality.

Russia previously built in 2004 three Krivak class frigates - INS Talwar, INS Trishul and INS Tabar - for India, but they all were delivered late.

All of the new frigates will be armed with eight BrahMos supersonic anti-ship cruise missile systems and not the Club-N/3M54TE missile system, which was installed on previous frigates.

The Krivak class frigate has deadweight of 4,000 metric tons and a speed of 30 knots, and is capable of accomplishing a wide range of maritime missions, primarily hunting down and destroying large surface ships and submarines.

[dinesha]

L&T's new shipyard in Tamil Nadu to bid for defence contracts news

Chennai: Larsen & Toubro is moving ahead with land acquisition in Tamil Nadu to set up a shipbuilding yard, which will take on defence contracts. A senior L&T official said that the project is likely to go on stream in two years.

Speaking to reporters on the sidelines of Suminfra, a summit on sustainable public-private partnerships in infrastructure, JP Nayak, board member and president (machinery and industrial products), L&T, said the company had already shown its capability in the construction of India's first nuclear vessel. Dubbed INS Arihant, the nuclear submarine was launched on 26 July.

Nayak said the land acquisition process for the shipbuilding yard had begun and a project report had also been submitted.

[John]

An industry official said the first ship would be floated out this year, the second, in spring 2010, and the third a bit later, adding that the Indian government had provided sufficient and timely project financing.

Nice to see it coming along hopefully we get some launch photos.

[Venkarl]

RED ALERT!! Very significant, might be a dry run or actual run to sneek dangerous stuff into India....

This can also be an attention grabber to cover up some clandestine ops elsewhere w.r.t India. Here, I'd like to know from Gurus that how any navy would react? will this kind of activity raise a national level alert or just a focused one on a particular region?

[k prasad]

This can also be an attention grabber to cover up some clandestine ops elsewhere w.r.t India. Here, I'd like to know from Gurus that how any navy would react? will this kind of activity raise a national level alert or just a focused one on a particular region?

It'll be focussed... if they want to use this to sneak in something else, it can't be somewhere else due to an increased alert. If they want to tie up the resources in that area, that won't work either since other assets are alerted.

However, what could be possible is if there was a tipoff about a NoKo ship... (somewhat like the case in Forsyths previous novel "The Afghan"), and sent a decoy to draw attention away. Again a long shot.

If it is a deliberate attempt, my thinking is that it is a ploy to test our defences and reactions in an actual situation (theory and news knowledge is one thing, actual calibration is another).

[Venkarl]

...
It'll be focussed... if they want to use this to sneak in something else, it can't be somewhere else due to an increased alert. If they want to tie up the resources in that area, that won't work either since other assets are alerted.

>Thanks..I got what I needed.

If it is a deliberate attempt, my thinking is that it is a ploy to test our defences and reactions in an actual situation (theory and news knowledge is one thing, actual calibration is another).

>> Exactly..from this reaction...can anyone actually chalk out the navy's and coast guard's reaction plan in any event of piracy/unauthorized entry? usually they might check for patterns in reaction and containment process...if they are able to deduce this pattern, after some analysis on these bits and pieces, the enemy forces may have a very rough idea about action/reaction plans which "may" actually help them in an intended conflict. I am wondering if its a good idea if navy+CG have a bunch of plans designed for a common goal from which a randomly selected plan would be executed giving out not much info to enemy analysts.

Just my thoughts.....experts might have more knowledge on this...

[m mittal]

Can anyone post pics of the construction update of IAC??

[Singha]

as per gearth, hut bay is a shallow bay on eastern shore of little andaman,
with open water to its east upto myanmar. its also a jetty and town.

unless this ship anchored much further north, dont see how it was not spotted
from the shore itself.

there is 50km sea between big and small andaman with a few islands . maybe
thats where it was sneaking around and laying underwater sensors or
conducting water and seabed survey for chipanda submarines.

[Philip]

Recent reports of a secret undergrpound nuclear facility being built by the Burmese junta,with NoKo help and the Chinese nod,could be one reason why this ship deliberately strayed into Indian waters,to offload key cargo onto a smaller vessel that could enter a Burmese port discreetly.NoKo ships are being carefully watched by the west in particular,as they are suspected of helping both Iran and Syria in nuke tech and would come under scrutiny at ports of call.The Burmese dsperately want to emulate NoKo and develop a nuclear weapon so as to insure the regime from evcition by foriegn forces.Another reason could be to conduct clandestine recce of the Andaman and Nicobar islands for the Chinese,etc.,as their ships would be more carefully tracked.

What the IN needs to create in the islands is a 24/7 monitoring system,where every vessel transiting the Malacca Straits through the A&N islands is monitored.WE may need a dedicated maritime satellite for the purpose.Ideally,UAVs/UCASVs and especially amphibians,which could land in the sea alongside any island,would be able to help operations.

http://www.ptinews.com/news/217862_More ... -top-brass

New Delhi, Aug 7 (PTI) More changes in the Navy's top brass are in the pipeline, with Navy chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta retiring this month end and the government already announcing 11 new appointments this week.

Apart from seven promotions to senior Navy officers, the government has appointed Assistant Chief of Naval Staff (Foreign Cooperation and Intelligence) Vice Admiral P Chauhan as the new Chief of Staff at the Mumbai-based Western Naval Command.

Navy sources said Chauhan will take over the new assignment next month.

Rear Admiral Satish Soni, who is at present the Chief of Staff at the Eastern Naval Command, gets promoted as Vice Admiral.

The present Flag Officer Commanding of Western Fleet Rear Admiral S P S Cheema will take over as the new Chief of Personnel on being promoted as Vice Admiral next month.

[JaiS]

Would be interesting to know if IN P-8's get this capability.

P-8A secretly acquires mission to rival Joint STARS

The Boeing P-8A Poseidon has secretly acquired a new role for the US Navy that will transform the maritime patrol aircraft into a rival of the US Air Force's Northrop Grumman E-8C Joint Surveillance Target Attack Radar System (JSTARS).

Details of the mission surfaced today in a press release issued by Raytheon, which announced receiving a multi-year contract to develop an advanced new radar for the P-8A programme.

As a sensor that can track moving targets on the ground, the canoe-pod LSRS allowed some P-3Cs to shift into the overland surveillance mission, performing a role normally reserved for the USAF's E-8C fleet.

The existence of the mechanically-scanned LSRS sensor only became known in 2006, when Boeing announced the system had been used to track moving ground targets and cue a strike by the standoff land attack missile - expanded response (SLAM-ER). Last year, Raytheon also revealed that the LSRS could track moving targets making a 90-degree turn.
The USN plans to buy 117 P-8As to partly replace the P-3C fleet.

[vasu_ray]

we might be doing this already, since targeting the Chinese maritime traffic in the Indian ocean is one objective of IN,
can they record 'signatures' of all vessels traversing these sea lanes, will be useful during wartime, if we are bold, can we lay sensors at all Chinese, NK, TSP, Burmese, lankan, Iranian and Bangladeshi ports, building a database overtime with the correct tags

the 'signatures' are consistent until the engines are changed or the vessel undergoes a major overhaul

[Singha]

have seen shadowy claims of IN Kilos periodically in kaoshiung...

[vasu_ray]

hopefully we have sats that are able to track maritime traffic continually, including ports in the IOR region, take pictures at regular intervals and connect the dots showing surface vessel positions

if the war is going to be swift, use of air force is necessary, can air launched Brahmos be relied on to make that precision standoff attack on Chinese vessels docked at foreign ports (Iran, Middle east, South Africa, Singapore, HK ...)? take sat pictures and let loose the hounds

I don't think they can stomach an economic cost and loss of land in Tibet.

so, what are the counters to ASAT weapons? numbers? orbit shifting maneuvers?

[NRao]

JaiS,

Within the past two AWST (IIRC) is an article that claims that Boeing is planning on building a P-8 that can flip-flop between the two seamlessly - on demand IIRC.

[Rahul M]

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/stor ... OZ5Y=&SEO=

Joint Operations Centre launched at Naval Base

KOCHI: In order to coordinate various operations pertaining to coastal defence in the State the Southern Naval Command has established a Joint Operations Centre(JOC) at the Naval Base, Kochi.

The centre, established as per a Central Government directive, is expected to become the nerve centre of all operations along the Kerala coast.

[PratikDas]

India no match for China, says Navy chief

Navy chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta publicly admitted on Monday that India was no match for China and there was no way New Delhi could bridge the yawning gap in its capabilities against China.

...

He saw ominous signs everywhere while delivering a talk on India’s national security challenges on Monday. “Whether in terms of GDP, defence spending or any other economic, social or development parameter, the gap between the two is just too wide to bridge (and getting wider by the day).”

...

“Our trust deficit with China can never be liquidated unless our boundary problems are resolved…Coping with China will certainly be one of our primary challenges in the years ahead.”

[NRao]

well chai-biscut had to come back and bite some day.

[John Snow]

well, our babus are experts in biting the Chai and slurping the biscoots.

Our Bhishma uvacha (during Arihant discussion Vishnu som moderating of which the video posted here) was lick up the international fora to contain China, so much for grad strategy!

We need to grow... then have some testosterone injected and then Sindenafil... a long way to go.

I hope the COAS also admits publicly that we cant lick TSP army leave alone PRC

Then atleast some patriotic MPs Intellectual will go up in arms to the right thing.....


But then there are Generals in service who will parrot War is costly Peace is the way {psst when do I become Lt. Gen .. with most of my service in ASC...)

[Cain Marko]

I like this man. He always had a tendency to make bold statements. But I think this is a way to get the GOI to move fast on acquisitions (submarine second line). JMT

CM.

[NRao]

I hope the COAS also admits publicly that we can lick TSP army leave alone PRC

when does this COAS retire? All these chiefs go public precisely three weeks before they retire.

[John Snow]

to make sure they dont jeopardize any possible extensions of tenure as COAS