India-China News and Discussion

[csharma]

Newstory in Chinese CCTV on India as a global player. The story was spurred by the launch of Arihant. Mostly accurate and probably the most accurate coming from a foreign source.

The Chinese analyst clearly talks about India's arrival on the Asian and the world scene. More sober than the scathing diatribes from Global Times in the recent past.

They talk about India being one of the four ancient civilizations. Never seen that from CNN types.

If Chinese demonstrate such practical approach, then there is no reason why India and China cannot cooperate.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QepQECdoq1U

[NRao]

If Chinese demonstrate such practical approach, then there is no reason why India and China cannot cooperate.

Those are the "good guys". Unfortunately China also have a "bad guys" set.

India needs to cultivate these good guys - as the US wants India to do in Pakistan too.

[NRao]

From what little I have read that seems to be the general consensus. However, what I am suggesting is that China is not being honest in her accounting. Which is what I referred to as "transparency".

I don't think that chinese offical statistic is "inflated".on the contary, it is "deflated".

1. I have been to Hongkong . Hongkongese per nominal GDP is 3-4 times more than that of Grade A cities in mainland CHina.
However, I don't think that Hongkongese have a better life quality than Grade A cities.

2 many chinese tourists just wow " why "10000+ USD of per nominal GDP" "industrialized econimies" look so crappy, after they visit east europe,S.korea and Taiwan.
most of chinese tourists feel that the cities in east europe,S.korea and Taiwan are "outdated" and the infrastructure there are "timeworn" ,although their nominal GDP is 3-6 times more than mainland china .

3. many chinese tourists just feel it a joke that Turkey's nominal GDP is 4 times more than China,after they visit Istanbul .

4. Chinese local officials indeed have motives to "inflate" the data,but such "inflate" is not very successful.

Ah.

As an ex architect and an Urban Planner who has worked on one of the largest cities in the US, I can assure you that such thinking is not just invalid, but actually harmful. IF I were to visit a new Chinese city after 200 years, it will be in a poor shape. (Well, who cares, eh? )

I would not want India/Indians to be trapped by what I like to call this Forbes mentality. The number of millionaires, in a society, is worthless - unless they can contribute to the uplift-ment of their own societies - which is another another story.

[VinodTK]

Google shows parts of Arunachal in Chinese

time to dump Google and switch to BING

[tripathi]

Google shows parts of Arunachal in Chinese

time to dump Google and switch to BING

this was one of the comments on the same article .how authentic it is?

(on behalf) Google Spokesperson,New Delhi,says:Earlier this week, as part of a routine update to Google Earth, we published new data for the Arunachal Pradesh region that changed the depiction of certain place names in the product. The change was a result of a mistake in our processing of new map data .We are in the process of reverting the data to its previous state, and expect the change to be visible in the product shortly. We would like to clarify that this issue did not impact our depiction of international borders. Google spokesperson

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/opinions/4869777.cms

[Arun_S]

Dated but dorment.

If India had any sense, it would give the Vietnam half a regiment of 300 Km Prithvi's ASAP, some of it as outright "cultural" aid (read, gift). These are in any case redundant in the Indian arsenal. This should be followed up with sales of BrahMos CM's. Naturally, a full compliment of "advisers" should also be posted. Even giving Vietnam FAE warheads for the Prithvi's would not be a bad idea.

If the PRC can play TSP against the Indians (given TSP's record on the battlefield), then the Indians must take this opportunity and create an anti-PRC buffer with an ally like Vietnam (who kicked the crap out of the PLA).

China uses Pak, Vietnam open to India

Bharat Karnad
Monday, October 03, 2005 at 0921 hours IST

India-Pakistan India's Ostpolitik involving the ASEAN and the ‘‘rimland’’ states farther afield — like Japan and South Korea — has been a success in great part because of naval diplomacy.

Indian naval flotillas steaming into Asian ports, dropping anchor at Limpopo to showcase Indian designed missile destroyers, holding annual joint exercises in the Andaman Sea with the smaller littoral navies, exercising offshore during extended ‘‘goodwill’’ tours with the host country’s naval vessels and, generally, establishing a presence in proximal as well as distant seas constantly reminds these states of India’s strategic importance.

The legendary Singapore leader Lee Kwan Yew referred to India and China as the two wings of a giant airplane. Without either of them, Asia, he implied, could not fly.

What he tactfully left unsaid, but most Asian countries on China’s periphery believe, is that their security depends on the emergence of a militarily strong India as counterweight — because, notwithstanding its security commitments, in a crisis the United States can always choose to withdraw behind the moat of the Pacific Ocean.

The pillars of an obvious and enduring Indian security architecture, if only the Indian government had the wit to envision it, are Israel and a Trucial State, like Oman, in the west and, in the east, ASEAN and Vietnam in China’s ‘‘soft underbelly’’, and Taiwan and Japan on the Chinese flank.

Beijing may be apprehensive of a resurgent Japan but, of all the states on its border, it is most respectful of a militarily scrappy Vietnam, which prides itself on successfully fighting off the Chinese hegemon for ‘‘a thousand years’’. And most recently in 1979 gave the invading Chinese armies a bloody nose, which compelled Deng Xiaoping to do the prudent thing — speedily declare victory and get the hell out!

By cultivating a resolute Vietnam as a close regional ally and security partner in the manner China has done Pakistan, India can pay Beijing back in the same coin.

China has strategically discomfited India and sought to ‘‘contain’’ it to south Asia by arming Pakistan with nuclear weapons and missiles. Militarily to focus on Pakistan — the Chinese cat’s paw — as India has done is unwise. The cat can be more effectively dealt with by enabling Vietnam — a smaller but spirited tomcat — to rise militarily as a consequential state in China’s immediate neighbourhood.

In the short term, this should reasonably be the prime Indian strategic objective.

An opportunity will arise on October 3, when a defence delegation led by Lt General Nguyen Thinh, head of the Vietnamese Defence Research Centre — the counterpart of India’s Defence Research and Development Organisation — begins its Indian trip. General Thinh is expected to ask for Indian help and technical assistance in acquiring a missile production capability.

The problem is the Vietnamese want the Brahmos cruise missile, with which they promise to keep the Chinese Navy on the defensive in the South China Sea and the approaches to the Malacca Straits. This is an esteemable mission. The Indian government, acting sensibly, should help Vietnam achieve it.

But the Brahmos, entering production stage, will have to be first inducted in goodly numbers in the Indian order-of-battle before a surplus can be generated for friendly states. And, in any case, technology transfer may be infeasible, at least initially.

But there is the proven short-range Prithvi missile, with impressive accuracy, that India can part with because, with the family of Agni missiles in the fray, it has become redundant.

The Prithvi in the arsenal highlights the Indian nuclear deterrent’s limited reach and clout and is something of an embarrassment. And deployed on the western border with Pakistan, it is destabilising. It can be give to the Vietnamese without in any way weakening the country’s security.

Moreover, the Integrated Defence Staff, which favours it over the Brahmos even in naval missions, can pass on advice for using the Prithvi, other than in land-based operations, in the sea-surface sanitising mode the Vietnamese envisage. Further, the transaction for the sub-300 km range Prithvi is permissible under the Missile Technology Control Regime.

In exchange for the conventional warheaded Prithvi now and the promise of more advanced missiles and other such strategic cooperation in the future, Hanoi should be persuaded to allow the Indian Navy a basing option in Cam Ranh Bay, unarguably the finest natural deep water harbour in Asia, to match the planned Chinese naval presence in Gwadar on the Baluchistan coast. This, in turn, can be bottled up by the IAF active out of the former RAF base at Gan, leased from the Maldives government.

BUT Cam Ranh Bay is a heady attraction for the United States and China as well. Vietnam has turned down such approaches essentially because it distrusts them. In the past, when the Indian Navy requested access to Cam Ranh Bay, the Vietnamese pleaded this would upset the big powers. However, the offer of missiles and other such strategic cooperation should prevail over Vietnam’s inhibitions.

The crucial question is: has the MEA the imagination to push this deal? Burdened by its pusillanimous take on diplomacy, which pooh-poohs military means of furthering national interest, for instance, it stopped the sale of second-hand corvettes and fast patrol craft to Mauritius and the Seychelles, forcing the navy to gift these in order to maintain goodwill.

Worse, the MEA seems a laggard in strategic thinking. Its attitude was reflected in the response then foreign secretary K. Raghunath gave to the (first) National Security Advisory Board.

To a question about India’s playing the ‘‘Vietnam card’’, he replied: ‘‘it is not practical.’’ That was six odd years ago. With all the strategic goings-on it has since been party to, one hopes the Foreign Office is a bit more canny these days.

The writer is professor, Centre for Policy Research, New Delhi

[VinodTK]

Hotline for India, China PMs

[Liu]

What is important is that China wants to rise up to dominate the world; while as, India wants to rise up to make the world a more equitable and better place. And this is the exact reason why the world welcomes India's rise; while as, China's rise is looked upon with apprehension. If I was Chinese government, I would be thinking hard as to why people in the rest of the world view China's rise with apprehension; while as, people in the rest in the world genreally have a very positive view of India's rise.

Whatever the gap with GDP might be, it is irrelevant.

west powers are wary of china,because CHina is rising up.

west powers are not wary of India, just because India has not really been rising up.

[Gerard]

Chinese warship docks at Kochi

[Hari Seldon]

west powers are wary of china,because CHina is rising up.

west powers are not wary of India, just because India has not really been rising up.

Quite true.

BTW, have you tried replacing 'west powers' with 'far eastern powers' and then seeing if the results match? Its not just a western POV but also an eastern one. PRC is looked upon as a sully bully. India meanwhile scares no one, not even its tiny neighbors.

BTW, I mean this as a compliment to PRC and an indictment of yindia.

[Liu]

From what little I have read that seems to be the general consensus. However, what I am suggesting is that China is not being honest in her accounting. Which is what I referred to as "transparency".

I don't think that chinese offical statistic is "inflated".on the contary, it is "deflated".

1. I have been to Hongkong . Hongkongese per nominal GDP is 3-4 times more than that of Grade A cities in mainland CHina.
However, I don't think that Hongkongese have a better life quality than Grade A cities.

2 many chinese tourists just wow " why "10000+ USD of per nominal GDP" "industrialized econimies" look so crappy, after they visit east europe,S.korea and Taiwan.
most of chinese tourists feel that the cities in east europe,S.korea and Taiwan are "outdated" and the infrastructure there are "timeworn" ,although their nominal GDP is 3-6 times more than mainland china .

3. many chinese tourists just feel it a joke that Turkey's nominal GDP is 4 times more than China,after they visit Istanbul .

4. Chinese local officials indeed have motives to "inflate" the data,but such "inflate" is not very successful.

Ah.

As an ex architect and an Urban Planner who has worked on one of the largest cities in the US, I can assure you that such thinking is not just invalid, but actually harmful. IF I were to visit a new Chinese city after 200 years, it will be in a poor shape. (Well, who cares, eh? )

I would not want India/Indians to be trapped by what I like to call this Forbes mentality. The number of millionaires, in a society, is worthless - unless they can contribute to the uplift-ment of their own societies - which is another another story.

however, I indeed think that chinese cities are indeed more modern and advanced than most cities in turkey, CHile, east Europe and even Taiwan.

just compare chinese cities and the cities in Turky and east europe, it is obvious that Chinese cities are more bigger, more splendid, better planned and has more advanced infrastructures like expressways,subways....etc.

[Liu]

west powers are wary of china,because CHina is rising up.

west powers are not wary of India, just because India has not really been rising up.

Quite true.

BTW, have you tried replacing 'west powers' with 'far eastern powers' and then seeing if the results match? Its not just a western POV but also an eastern one. PRC is looked upon as a sully bully. India meanwhile scares no one, not even its tiny neighbors.

BTW, I mean this as a compliment to PRC and an indictment of yindia.

well, If India reallly scareed no one ,then Nepal, Srilanka,Pakistan and Bagdhish would not so eager to get on the bed of china and have china a a checkweight against India.

[RayC]

well, If India reallly scareed no one ,then Nepal, Srilanka,Pakistan and Bagdhish would not so eager to get on the bed of china and have china a a checkweight against India.

Now why do you to get bed with people other than your neighbours?

Because YOU are SCARED of your neighbour.

QED.

Though there is nothing to be scared of India. we are peaceloving as much as China etc!

[derkonig]

however, I indeed think that chinese cities are indeed more modern and advanced than most cities in turkey, CHile, east Europe and even Taiwan.

just compare chinese cities and the cities in Turky and east europe, it is obvious that Chinese cities are more bigger, more splendid, better planned and has more advanced infrastructures like expressways,subways....etc.

Of what use are these when the people of china are not free & live under the yoke of fear & repression. People in china go about their wretched lives, as they always have since times immemorial, knowing that they control none of it. The state can get away with no accountablility and unlimited power. Such is the tragedy of the chinese. All that infra, who owns it? Does the avg. chinese on the street have any stake in those soc-called modern infra? Nay, all belongs to the despots.
Besides, the lesser said about the quality of chinese stuff, the better. Lets see if any of chinas infra can make it past a decade.
This is the state of the state-of-the art in china.

[archan]

Guys, lets not start a pi$$ing contest with a Chinese postor here. We all know what China is and what they do. The world knows. Lets keep this thread for more useful news and discussions instead of "oh you post one bad picture of my country, I got another jpeg for ya".
Thanks for understanding.

[Anujan]

Breaking news. Chinese plane hijacked in Xinjiang

[pgbhat]

Plane hijacked in China's Xinjiang region-Xinhua ---- from reuters.

[ChandraS]

^ Something is odd. This report calls it a bomb threat. Says the plane was not allowed to land in Xiniang due to this and was diverted to Kandahar.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8192448.stm

[sanjaykumar]

however, I indeed think that Chinese cities are indeed more modern and advanced than most cities in turkey, CHile, east Europe and even Taiwan.


There is no question that China has made absolutely remarkable strides in infrastructure, literacy, poverty and drive.

You don't have to compare to 'East Europe'. I find East Asia has this hang-up about white people. East Europe is not relevant to the furure of planet Earth. China and India will determine the future of man's evolution (maybe America if they can get their underpants back on).

In the clip on India above, that same reflexive reverence for the West shows up when the narrator all but label Indians as westerners. It would be a big mistake for Chinese to conclude this.


Liu, in Japan television commercials often feature white models, is the situation the same in Hong Kong? In mainland China?

[Anabhaya]

NSA gets charge of ties with China

NEW DELHI: The India-China boundary talks have just been elevated into a high level strategic dialogue. National Security Adviser MK Narayanan and Chinese state councilor Dai Bingguo will now be presiding over the highest level of strategic dialogue between the two countries. The NSA is effectively taking over management of India's China relationship, reflecting a prominence that the PM wants to impart to the relationship.

Believe US relations are now conducted from PMO and now with this move PMO is effectively taking charge of China relations as well. Why sideline the MEA ?

[derkonig]

Guys, lets not start a pi$$ing contest with a Chinese postor here. We all know what China is and what they do. The world knows. Lets keep this thread for more useful news and discussions instead of "oh you post one bad picture of my country, I got another jpeg for ya".
Thanks for understanding.

sir, point taken, but please ensure that no chicom propaganda is allowed on this thread as well.

[pgbhat]

Paperwork turns back China-bound Afghan flight ---- from reuters
Reuters now says it is false alarm y'all.

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan, Aug 9 (Reuters) - A China-bound Afghan passenger flight was sent back to Afghanistan because it lacked the proper documents required to land, not because of a bomb or hijack threat, Afghan officials said.

China's Xinhua news agency had reported that Chinese authorities suspected the flight had been threatened by a bomb. But an air traffic official in Kabul and an airport police source in Kandahar said there was no such threat.

The plane, from Afghanistan's Kam Air airline, had departed from Kabul but landed in the southern city of Kandahar on its return because of high winds in Kabul, they said.

"It can go back to Kabul whenever it wants," the Kandahar airport police source said.

The sources said the flight was the first the airline had made on that route, and the airport in China's Xinjiang province denied it permission to land.

A press officer for NATO-led and U.S. forces in Kabul, Chief Petty Officer Brian Naranjo, said a plane had made a "precautionary landing" in Kandahar, but that there was no hijacking or bomb threat involved.

(Reporting by Ismail Sameem in KANDAHAR, Sayed Salahuddin in KABUL and Chris Buckley in BEIJING; writing by Peter Graff; Editing by Angus MacSwan)

[Venkarl]

Newstory in Chinese CCTV on India as a global player. The story was ..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QepQECdoq1U

Did any body observe the indo chine map?

[pgbhat]

^^^^

[Omar]

Balancing India and China

A podcast from council on foreign relations featuring Sumit Ganguly, Professor, Indiana University and
Minxin Pei, Director, Keck Center for International and Strategic Studies, Claremont McKenna College.

[sourab_c]

This brings up an important question- How serious are the Chinese about Arunachal Pradesh?

I have a feeling that the Chinese will do everything they can to keep the Arunachal Pradesh issue alive at the diplomatic level and on the border front by their little "incursions." They will not engage India or try to occupy Arunachal pradesh as they know that they will face the full wrath of the Indian forces. This, they can not afford to do.

The Chinese will however won't mind if India gives up some territory "peacefully" through talks.
These traits are of a type of diplomacy called "BUFFER DIPLOMACY." The AP issue being the BUFFER in this case.

They want to try to keep India engaged in Arunachal Pradesh so India can not engage in the real issue, which is TIBET.

Indian passive behaviour is only helping the Chinese. Indians should be aggressive in their stance and make it clear that we will not tolerate any incursions into our territory and that AP is our integral part. By holding talks over AP, we are assuming that AP is indeed disputed.

We should be having Indo Chinese talks over TIBET for god's sake, not AP!

[bahdada]

Google shows parts of Arunachal in Chinese

time to dump Google and switch to BING

That and the fact most of the underlying technology that powers Bing came out of Microsoft R&D India.

@Pg, good catch. Aksai Chin and Arunachal is in India according to that CCTV special. That producer is gonna get a visit from his local friendly neighbourhood MSS and Party apparatchik .

[vasu_ray]

We should be having Indo Chinese talks over TIBET for god's sake, not AP!

well whatever spirit keeps Vietnam fighting, that should be ignited in the Tibetan lamas , and they will have to hold fort, unlike TSP and Bangladesh, there is a common border between Tibet and China

[andy B]

Dated but dorment.

If India had any sense, it would give the Vietnam half a regiment of 300 Km Prithvi's ASAP, some of it as outright "cultural" aid (read, gift). These are in any case redundant in the Indian arsenal. This should be followed up with sales of BrahMos CM's. Naturally, a full compliment of "advisers" should also be posted. Even giving Vietnam FAE warheads for the Prithvi's would not be a bad idea.

Arun Sir, I had made this some observation quite some time back and IIRC Rahul M had observed that it would be crossing a threshold thing is though that the threshold has already been crossed with PRC supplying to Porkis.

I guess another way could be of joint development to keep the cry babies happy rebadge them if need be but start getting them into Vietnam hands pronto.

[ramana]

Well PRC needs to understand that if it continues to proliferate and arm TSP against India and things go bad on that account then all bets are off and maybe non reciprocal targes will be destroyed and the perils of Hwang Ho might comeback.

[ramana]

From e-mail

http://www.c3sindia.org/india/719

CHENNAI CENTRE FOR CHINA STUDIES

China Should break up the Indian Union, suggests a Chinese Strategist

D.S.Rajan, C3S Paper No.325 dated August 9, 2009
Almost coinciding with the 13th round of Sino-Indian border talks (New Delhi, August 7-8, 2009), an article (in Chinese language) has appeared in China captioned “If China takes a little action, the so-called Great Indian Federation can be broken up” ( Zhong Guo Zhan Lue Gang, www.iiss.cn , Chinese,8 August 2009). Interestingly, it has been reproduced in several other strategic and military websites of the country and by all means, targets the domestic audience. The authoritative host site is located in Beijing and is the new edition of one, which so far represented the China International Institute for Strategic Studies (www.chinaiiss.org).

Claiming that Beijing’s ‘China-Centric’ Asian strategy, provides for splitting India, the writer of the article, Zhan Lue (strategy), has found that New Delhi’s corresponding ‘India-Centric’ policy in Asia, is in reality a ‘Hindustan centric’ one. Stating that on the other hand ‘local centres’ exist in several of the country’s provinces (excepting for the U.P and certain Northern regions), Zhan Lue has felt that in the face of such local characteristics, the ‘so-called’ Indian nation cannot be considered as one having existed in history.
According to the article, if India today relies on any thing for unity, it is the Hindu religion. The partition of the country was based on religion. Stating that today nation states are the main current in the world, it has said that India could only be termed now as a “Hindu Religious state’. Adding that Hinduism is a decadent religion as it allows caste exploitation and is unhelpful to the country’s modernization, it described the Indian government as one in a dilemma with regard to eradication of the caste system as it realizes that the process to do away with castes may shake the foundation of the consciousness of the Indian nation.
The writer has argued that in view of the above, China in its own interest and the progress of whole Asia, should join forces with different nationalities like Assamese, Tamils, and Kashmiris and support the latter in establishing independent nation-states of their own, out of India. In particular, the ULFA in Assam, a territory neighboring China, can be helped by China so that Assam realizes its national independence.
The article has also felt that for Bangladesh, the biggest threat is from India, which wants to develop a great Indian Federation extending from Afghanistan to Myanmar. India is also targeting China with support to Vietnam’s efforts to occupy Nansha (Spratly) group of islands in South China Sea. Hence the need for China’s consolidation of its alliance with Bangladesh, a country with which the US and Japan are also improving their relations to counter China. It has pointed out that China can give political support to Bangladesh enabling the latter to encourage ethnic Bengalis in India to get rid of Indian control and unite with Bangladesh as one Bengali nation; if the same is not possible, creation of at least another free Bengali nation state as a friendly neighbour of Bangladesh, would be desirable, for the purpose of weakening India’s expansion and threat aimed at forming a ‘unified South Asia’.

The punch line in the article has been that to split India, China can bring into its fold countries like Pakistan, Nepal and Bhutan, support ULFA in attaining its goal for Assam’s independence, back aspirations of Indian nationalities like Tamils and Nagas, encourage Bangladesh to give a push to the independence of West Bengal and lastly recover the 90,000 sq km. territory in Southern Tibet.
Wishing for India’s break-up into 20-30 nation-states like in Europe, the article has concluded by saying that if the consciousness of nationalities in India could be aroused, social reforms in South Asia can be achieved, the caste system can be eradicated and the region can march along the road of prosperity.

{since when did the Han Chinese get so concerned with caste systems. Looks like they are drinking US piss!}

The Chinese article in question will certainly outrage readers in India. Its suggestion that China can follow a strategy to dismember India, a country always with a tradition of unity in diversity, is atrocious, to say the least. The write-up could not have been published without the permission of the Chinese authorities, but it is sure that Beijing will wash its hands out of this if the matter is taken up with it by New Delhi. It has generally been seen that China is speaking in two voices – its diplomatic interlocutors have always shown understanding during their dealings with their Indian counterparts, but its selected media is pouring venom on India in their reporting. Which one to believe is a question confronting the public opinion and even policy makers in India. In any case, an approach of panic towards such outbursts will be a mistake, but also ignoring them will prove to be costly for India.

{Rajan saar wants it both ways! This is where US President Trueman wanted a one handed expert!}


(The writer, D.S.Rajan, is Director of Chennai Centre for China Studies, Chennai, India, email: [email protected]).

Looks like lot of flied lice dreams of chipanda

[Suraj]

From e-mail

http://www.c3sindia.org/india/719

CHENNAI CENTRE FOR CHINA STUDIES

China Should break up the Indian Union, suggests a Chinese Strategist

The jokers are getting really rattled these days

[svinayak]

The jokers are getting really rattled these days

He He He

One nuke sub changes everything.
Think about 10 nuke subs

[Rahul M]

encourage Bangladesh to give a push to the independence of West Bengal

good ! I'll be waiting !! (for the independence agents and their masters)

[darshan]

I am unfortunate enough that I have to deal with BDs at work.
One thing I am noticing daily is that they are increasingly talking about how Bengal was different nation comprising of many Indian states including Bihar, Orissa, etc. (note all the usual ones where BD population is penetrating everyday.). This is new generation of young BDs. This generation also constantly keeps talking about how BD needs pukes because BD is too small to fight a war.

[svinayak]

I am unfortunate enough that I have to deal with BDs at work.
One thing I am noticing daily is that they are increasingly talking about how Bengal was different nation comprising of many Indian states including Bihar, Orissa, etc. (note all the usual ones where BD population is penetrating everyday.). This is new generation of young BDs. This generation also constantly keeps talking about how BD needs pukes because BD is too small to fight a war.

This imperialistic streak will not go away. The core jihadi group - aristrocratic needs to be taken care of. Chinese backing brings the BD elite to be aggressive. That needs to be cut off.

[Rishi]

Spurt in Chinese 'intrusions': India

Indrani Bagchi, TNN 9 August 2009, 04:17am IST
NEW DELHI: Prior to the 13th round of India-China boundary talks, Indian defence and security agencies reported an increased spurt in "intrusions" and "incursions" by the Chinese, particularly in the western sector.

Security agencies say on June 1, a combined Indian Army-ITBP patrol was intercepted by the PLA in Depsang Bulge and forced to turn back after the PLA planted vehicles in front and behind the Indian patrol vehicle and escorted it back across the Chinese "perception of the LAC". Later in the month, Chinese air force helicopters again flew across the LAC in the Chushul area in J&K.

The border issue is not a cakewalk, as was clear from the talks that ended on Saturday. So, if India says Arunachal Pradesh is an integral part of the country, China is not likely to give up its claim on what it calls "southern Tibet".

On August 7, China's official newspaper `Global Times', quoting `Ming Pao', a Hongkong newspaper, said, "The present time is not favorable for China to resolve the boundary issue in such a hurried way because the country is still rising globally and if the dispute is not properly addressed, the result will only be blamed by generations to come."

"Chinese military expert Long Tao commented that the disputed region of South Tibet is not the cause of the two countries' conflict in the history, but rather was left over from 1914. That was when the British colonialists arbitrarily made the `McMahon Line', which Long says is even more ridiculous than the unequal Treaty of Nanjing." While concluding, it said, "China won't sacrifice its sovereignty in exchange for friendship. Therefore, India should not have any illusions with regards to this issue."

[Raj Malhotra]

I think the best way to tackle China is to let our foreign policy be handled by USA and let our import mad Service brass import cheap chinese arms for kickbacks. i.e. to say continue following Kangressi policies.

[Rishirishi]

From what little I have read that seems to be the general consensus. However, what I am suggesting is that China is not being honest in her accounting. Which is what I referred to as "transparency".

I don't think that chinese offical statistic is "inflated".on the contary, it is "deflated".

1. I have been to Hongkong . Hongkongese per nominal GDP is 3-4 times more than that of Grade A cities in mainland CHina.
However, I don't think that Hongkongese have a better life quality than Grade A cities.

2 many chinese tourists just wow " why "10000+ USD of per nominal GDP" "industrialized econimies" look so crappy, after they visit east europe,S.korea and Taiwan.
most of chinese tourists feel that the cities in east europe,S.korea and Taiwan are "outdated" and the infrastructure there are "timeworn" ,although their nominal GDP is 3-6 times more than mainland china .

3. many chinese tourists just feel it a joke that Turkey's nominal GDP is 4 times more than China,after they visit Istanbul .

4. Chinese local officials indeed have motives to "inflate" the data,but such "inflate" is not very successful.

Ah.

As an ex architect and an Urban Planner who has worked on one of the largest cities in the US, I can assure you that such thinking is not just invalid, but actually harmful. IF I were to visit a new Chinese city after 200 years, it will be in a poor shape. (Well, who cares, eh? )

I would not want India/Indians to be trapped by what I like to call this Forbes mentality. The number of millionaires, in a society, is worthless - unless they can contribute to the uplift-ment of their own societies - which is another another story.

Very valid point. I have been to China several times. Visited cities like Shanghai, Hangzhou, Nanjing, Xiamen, Shenzen, Guangzhou. Have visted the inner parts of the cities, as well as the modern parts.
yes, the new chinease sicites look very good. they surpass anything that is found in the west. They are modelled in Singapore style, with clean wide expressways and well maintained gardens. Modern impressive buildeing etc.

But try to go one block inside from the main road, and suddenly you will feel you are in old Delhi. It does not cost a whole lot to raise old neigbour hoods and replace them with tall wellplanned buildings. But all this does little to improve the living standards. The only real mesure of wealth creation is mesuring what the residents actually can afford. Chinease wages are lower then in India. Earnings of 1 lack per month in India, is getting fairly usual. You will not find that in China. The wages are rising faster in India.

[NRao]

When I envisioned Kargils to wake up Indian leaders I was expecting something a lot more mature than that Chicom "split India" article.

I would not be surprised at all if this is really meant to divert attention from a real crack being formed somewhere else in the region - Balouch for instance.