Arunachal Pradesh: A separate nation on Google Earth

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Aug 2009 09:27

I start this thread not so much as a "topic for discussion" but to call attention to what I think is so wrong that attention must be drawn to it.

I believe that the information and pictures I post below are the result of at least two distinct factors:
1) An Indian propensity sit back and take things lightly
2) Google earth showing its parochial blinkered side where the powers that be of the private company are willing to be browbeaten by China on the one hand to give a Chinese view priority vis a vis India while he same powers that be are subject to US/UK views regarding Taiwan and the Falklands

First let me post the images

Here is an image (From Gogle Earth) that implies that the North-East Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh is a separate territory like Nepal, Bhutan and Myanmar

Seen from closer, Arunachal and Uttaranchal acquire red borders of "disputed territory" (Click on images below)

But wait a minute. Both Taiwan and the Falklands are not disputed as per these images

Google is a private company subject to business worries. They will bend when their bottom lines are threatened.

What irritates me is the attitude of the average Indian and the Indian government too. No wonder Indians are taken to be global wimps. Nothing irritates me more than the techie in Bengaluru proudly wearing the T-shirt "I work for Google" while he snorts contemptuously at Bhuvan. If this hypothetical guy is American at heart he can skip reading this thread - but if he is Indian then I am asking him to wake up.

Google's qibla need to be set right. If GoI does not do it public pressure must do it. Maybe I will change to Yahoo search first of all.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 16 Aug 2009 09:43

I think BR has a few Google employees, perhaps they can take up this case in their own company? Of Course this is not to say that the non-Google employees of BR do not have a part to play but penning it down as this thought crossed my head.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 16 Aug 2009 10:01

Well I am boycotting google search henceforth.
I will also not be opening any further gmail accounts.
And bing can provide as good maps on most occasions.

I have raised this issue continously in the google earth updates... forum on BRF. Google Earth is being patently dishonest here, by trying to fudge an issue to the detriment of Indian interests. It is bending towards the chinese POV, because the chinese have demonstrated that they WILL go ahead and BAN that company or block its operations with impunity, while the GoI will sit on its asses and engage in Chai-Biskoot.
The fact that google still has this map that does not show the borders correctly, inspite of atleast one meeting with GoI, means that either what GoI said to it was not strong enough, or that GoI is perhaps, to some extent complicit (At least in the Kashmir part because of the dark reasons obvious to us now) in this pony show.

I will request ALL BRFites and nanha mujahids to please log on and post your views on this page. This is of utmost importance. This is to me at least more than a border issue, it is someone encroaching on my space, my land. I don't agree with that even in cyberspace.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 16 Aug 2009 10:02

Shiv ji, good you got this up here. I raised this point around 3 months ago here..I have always been saying India should not be pulling out maps and defending AP etc, India should be discussing peacefull in border talks Kailash and Mansarover and getting Chinese to pull out maps and try defending Han rule over India's holiest of holy spots. But here our own original heritage is being claimed shamelessly..there are many people who say Buddhism is not an Indian heritage..thats because we are not defending the truth. We are being naive if we thing Satya will automaticall win over asatya. As Krishna tells Arjuna, action is necessary..

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 16 Aug 2009 10:05

I have posted also that the siachen glacier was being incorrectly shown on google earth. Google earth is extending the LOC from NJ9842 to the Karakoram highway which is what pakistan claims. It seems google has taken an Anti-India stance on all of India's borders.

Gagan wrote:In J&K google maps is showing the siachen glacier as part of pakistan by showing a dotted line from NJ9842 to the Karakoram pass instead of the AGPL, which is the current placement of the troops in the siachen sector

The AGPL lies as follows. Indira Col - Sia la - Saltoro Kangri 1 - Bilafond La - K12 - Gyong La (Held by India) - NJ9842

As shown in this BRF map.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 16 Aug 2009 10:10

Well, what stops the government from blocking Google services? They certainly have the capability to order ISPs to comply.

Note that Microsoft came around after the Windows 95 launch was embargoed over the map in the calendar tool.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 16 Aug 2009 10:15

What google is showing in Siachen.

What the AGPL is actually like.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Aug 2009 10:15

vera_k wrote:Well, what stops the government from blocking Google services? They certainly have the capability to order ISPs to comply.

1) Ignorance
2) Chalta-hai attitude
3) We are a poor country
4) We want peace with our neiguboers
5) Hey I'm Indian you know. I'm a wimp.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 16 Aug 2009 10:17

shiv wrote: 1) Ignorance
2) Chalta-hai attitude
3) We are a poor country
4) We want peace with our neiguboers
5) Hey I'm Indian you know. I'm a wimp.

I think it is just ignorance. The government had no hesitation in banning Windows 95 over the Kashmir border.

Link

The Indian government threatened to ban all Microsoft software from the country because we assigned a disputed region to Pakistan in the time zone map.

vipins · Post by **vipins** » 16 Aug 2009 10:31

And this page shows whole of NE as a seprate country.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 16 Aug 2009 10:38

Also note in the google earth image I've posted, The shaksgam valley is the territory that Pakistan has illegally ceded to china, which is actually a part of the J&K state.
Tells you how pakistan really values the J&K state.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 16 Aug 2009 10:50

thats it I reaching for a bottle of lisinopril, man when will GOI assert itself with these baccha companies.

rohiths · Post by **rohiths** » 16 Aug 2009 12:43

Google is just trying to please all. Don't have to blame them
If you go to maps.google.co.in it shows a map which includes Arunachal and PoK and Aksai Chin as part of India with all the chinese names removed from Arunachal
if you go to maps.google.cn it shows whole of Arunachal as part of China and PoK as part of pakistan
If you go to maps.google.com then it shows Arunachal and PoK and Aksai Chin as disputed

Just depends on which domain you go to.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 16 Aug 2009 13:11

I suppose that settles it then. The government just has to issue the ban on the google.com domain so that people use google.co.in instead.

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 16 Aug 2009 13:25

vera_k wrote: I think it is just ignorance. The government had no hesitation in banning Windows 95 over the Kashmir border.

Nope, that is the difference between the chankian PVNR & the dhimmi MMS.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 16 Aug 2009 14:47

Please post the names of senior GOOGLE executives of desi origin, both inside and outside India. No addresses please, just names. These are the people who can exert some positive influence, as in shoveling out the dog-sh1ts who make these false decisions on maps. If they don't care, or they are Communist musharraf-osculators (MO) then that should be known.

GOOGLE's problem is that if they DON'T kiss up to the commies, they will get banned in Red China. So they react only to negative incentives?

I was going to switch to GOOGLE***** browser, but now I won't. That should drive down their stock price and teach them a Befitting Lesson.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 16 Aug 2009 15:02

Please post the names of senior GOOGLE executives of desi origin, both inside and outside India.

N3 ji: Anurag Acharya (Ex IIT Kgp CS). He's the brain behind Google. Entire Google tech is based on Anurag Acharya's expertize on parallel processing and such.. Google could not exist without AA. He's very easy to get on the net..he's also still the Principal Engineer.

Please delete my message once you've taken down his name. Thanks

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 16 Aug 2009 16:28

Well.. I don't see why Dr. Acharya would want his name deleted. I hope GOOGLE lets him see that we need him to see what his company is doing, and direct the attention of the right ppl to fix the error.

Another top GOOGLE name is Ms. Sonal Shah.

dipak · Post by **dipak** » 16 Aug 2009 16:41

Well, if nothing else, stop using Google is definitely in my hands - and I shall stop using it, till Google takes satisfactory action.

And I am sure, each one of us is capable of doing that - at the very least.

Let GOI and whoever, do their whatever.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 16 Aug 2009 18:31

http://www.google.com/corporate/execs.html

As the names and photos suggest, lots of desis or Persons of Desi Origins @ the top.

Ok, no more Chrome. No more NEW gmail accounts. Will wean to BING over time. It was easy boycotting CNN (ever since Mumbai attacks), google is everywhere - must try hard. Will spread the message......

We have to devise a chain letter/email; and send it to 10 Indians who care about India

, and demand they send it to at least 10 Indians who care about India. If they do not know at least 10 Indians who care about India - then they have 10 days to befriend them. Or else.....

mithil · Post by **mithil** » 16 Aug 2009 19:24

vipins wrote:And this page shows whole of NE as a seprate country.

Gurulog,

I've just fired an e-mail to the costumer service of RBS stating:

[http://www.rbs.com/customers/our-servic ... tions.ashx

Sir,
In the above mentioned webpage of RBS, map of Republic of India is highlighted without its north-eastern region. I guess it is a mistake on the part of RBS webpage developers. I sincerely expect the fault to be looked into and rectified at the earliest by uploading the correct map, or else I must regret to say the matter will be promptly taken up with the Indian High Commission in London.

The correct of India can be looked up at this website.
http://www.mapsofindia.com/maps/india/i ... al-map.htm

sincerely,
mithilesh]

Do you think that I should also shoot an e-mail to the Indian high commission in London, so that they will follow up on the matter?

a_kumar · Post by **a_kumar** » 16 Aug 2009 20:10

Whats the point in bringing out names of higher ups of Indian origin, besides marking them in bright RED? In any case, it is unlikely that the Techie guys make calls on these. Infact I will go as far as to say, they have ZERO say in how the maps are shown.

The lever lies with GoI. period. Only thing is one needs balls!

But GoI cannot raise any issue on the name of AP or NE since. We will be only giving it more airtime. Find something obscure and lash the hell out!

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 16 Aug 2009 20:13

Just to raise the temperatures a bit, since grovelling doesn't seem to work, rabble rousing might.

Google is Anti India - boycott Google

kittoo · Post by **kittoo** » 16 Aug 2009 20:31

mithil wrote:
vipins wrote:And this page shows whole of NE as a seprate country.
Gurulog,

I've just fired an e-mail to the costumer service of RBS stating:

[http://www.rbs.com/customers/our-servic ... tions.ashx

Sir,
In the above mentioned webpage of RBS, map of Republic of India is highlighted without its north-eastern region. I guess it is a mistake on the part of RBS webpage developers. I sincerely expect the fault to be looked into and rectified at the earliest by uploading the correct map, or else I must regret to say the matter will be promptly taken up with the Indian High Commission in London.

The correct of India can be looked up at this website.
http://www.mapsofindia.com/maps/india/i ... al-map.htm

sincerely,
mithilesh]

Do you think that I should also shoot an e-mail to the Indian high commission in London, so that they will follow up on the matter?

I would say you should mail Indian high commission in London too. I will do it if you want.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 16 Aug 2009 20:43

Lots of activity visible on this..

A Google spokesperson has made the following statement about the Google Maps – Arunachal Pradesh controversy.

Earlier this week, as part of a routine update to Google Earth, we published new data for the Arunachal Pradesh region that changed the depiction of certain place names in the product. The change was a result of a mistake in our processing of new map data .We are in the process of reverting the data to its previous state, and expect the change to be visible in the product shortly. We would like to clarify that this issue did not impact our depiction of international borders.

We appreciate them speaking out, but suspect if the explanation is convincing enough.

Another interesting comment on the controversy

Google Ditu (“Google Maps”) was released to the public on February 9, 2007, and replaced the old Google Bendi (“Google Local”). This is the Chinese localized version of Google Maps and Google Local services.
There are some differences in frontier alignments between Google Ditu and Google Maps. On Google Maps, sections of the Chinese border with India and Pakistan are shown with dotted lines, indicating areas or frontiers in dispute. However, Google Ditu shows the Chinese frontier strictly according to Chinese claims with no dotted lines indicating the border with India and Pakistan. For example, the area now administered by India called Arunachal Pradesh (referred to as “South Tibet” by China) is shown inside the Chinese frontier by Google Ditu, with Indian highways ending abruptly at the Chinese claim line. Google Ditu also shows Taiwan and the South China Sea Islands as part of China. As of May 2009, Google Ditu’s street map coverage of Taiwan also omits major state organs, such as the Presidential Palace, the five Yuans, and the Supreme Court.
There are some differences between ditu.google.cn and ditu.google.com. For example, the former does not feature My Maps. On the other hand, while the former displays virtually all text in Chinese, the latter displays most text (user-selectable real text as well as those on map) in English. Worthy of note is the oddity that this behavior of displaying English text is not consistent but intermittent – sometimes it is in English, sometimes it is in Chinese. The criteria for choosing which language is displayed is not known.

Meanwhile, Google is said to have admitted its mistake and said that it would soon rectify the maps. A company spokesperson said: "Earlier, this week, as part of routine update to Google Earth, we published new data for the Arunachal Pradesh region that changed the depiction of certain place names in the product. The change was a result of a mistake in our processing of new map data."

http://arunachalnews.com/google-admits- ... achal.html

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 16 Aug 2009 20:44

I wonder who makes these politically sensitive decisions at Google. Is there a team which works on assigning areas to specific country or they just ctr-C & Ctr-V, whatever info SD provides them.

krithivas · Post by **krithivas** » 16 Aug 2009 20:54

http://news.google.com/news/search?pz=1 ... al+pradesh

....... India's foreign policy establishment was rattled (....implication is sleeping?...) by Indian media reports that a think tank linked to the Chinese military had called for India to be split into 30 independent states. The paper said that if China ''takes a little action, the so-called great Indian federation can be broken up''.

This would be in China's interests and lead to more prosperity in the region, it said, according to reports. Countries friendly to China like Pakistan, Bangladesh and Nepal could help ''different nationalities'' such as Tamil and Kashmiri people so that they can establish independent nation states of their own.

The Indian Government took the article so seriously it issued a statement saying the two countries had agreed to ''resolve outstanding issues, including the boundary question, through peaceful dialogue and consultations, and with mutual sensitivity to each other's concerns''.

R. Krithivas

mithil · Post by **mithil** » 16 Aug 2009 21:01

I would say you should mail Indian high commission in London too. I will do it if you want

Kitooji,

Please do e-mail to the Indian high commission, even I'm going to mail them on this issue. Hopefully on then, will the babus arise from their slumber and take some concrete action.

jaladipc · Post by **jaladipc** » 16 Aug 2009 22:14

Thanks for notifying guys......

message taken to the high level....

will soon expect the reply.

Jai Hind.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 16 Aug 2009 22:23

Yeah, I called up and told ManMohan to take this up with the "frisky" TSA guy at Gate 2 when he's boarding the Continental Airlines flight to Noo Yoik next. That ought to do it.

abhiti · Post by **abhiti** » 17 Aug 2009 04:33

Let me give everyone a good reason to not depend on Google for search:- Google saves every search run from any computer with its IP address in its database. The database is never pruned. US law enforcement and intelligence agencies depend on google for information on folks. Seems like someone is sneaky and keeping record behind your back. Use google search at your own peril.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 17 Aug 2009 04:56

abhiti wrote:Let me give everyone a good reason to not depend on Google for search:- Google saves every search run from any computer with its IP address in its database. The database is never pruned. US law enforcement and intelligence agencies depend on google for information on folks. Seems like someone is sneaky and keeping record behind your back. Use google search at your own peril.

For Indian it is other way round. Because of our population we should have several million searches prefeably at 100 million searches on most sensitive links and data so that they will never be able to pinpoint any one person. We need a undergorund search links so that Indians in large number search all vital info in the world.
In 10 years we need atleast 200-300 million indians searching everything

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 17 Aug 2009 05:21

abhiti wrote:Let me give everyone a good reason to not depend on Google for search:- Google saves every search run from any computer with its IP address in its database. The database is never pruned. US law enforcement and intelligence agencies depend on google for information on folks. Seems like someone is sneaky and keeping record behind your back. Use google search at your own peril.

Not just google every search engine does that and there are many other applications that are being written by many law enforcement agencies across the world using such data.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 17 Aug 2009 06:10

Well, GOOGLE is known not for sending stuff to US intelligence, (which I assume they do) but for snitching on innocent humans to the Chinese Communist thugs, and causing their torture and imprisonment and murder. (and I hope GOOGLE sees my IP as having typed this).

Please do search for Mt. Gopalankutti in North Arunachal, formerly known as Tibet. If they don't have it marked correctly, they can't be a competent global mapping service.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 18 Aug 2009 06:55

1. Does BD have a Google Bot? If yes, can it be stopped?2

2. We should force PM to kick Google's development center out of India

3. We should force PM to ban Google website in India

4. We should appeal to ALL Indian employees in Google to resign

Any other action items you suggest?

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 18 Aug 2009 07:58

Yes. Ban "The HINDU" b4 starting on Google.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 18 Aug 2009 09:51

We recently got a globe. The intire state of Kashmir is shown as an independent country. Of course, Aksai Chin is solidly part of PRC, as is Taiwan. The Indian map looks wierd (like a headless person) without J&K. Wonder who made the globe?

Then I saw an atlas also which lists snippet summaries of countries. There is no summary for Taiwan, no population numbers etc. listed.

Welcome to Pax Sinica.

samuel · Post by **samuel** » 18 Aug 2009 20:47

1. Does anyone know the update rates on Google Earth. It appears from looking online that this is three years old.

2. At approx 2.5KM/1024 pixels, it took me several hours to scan the border. This effort can be crowd-sourced.

3. A new effort, The Amazing Arunachal & North Arunachal Discovery Device, is proposed as a joint collaboration between machine and community, using crowd-sourcing to tag maps with labels and artificial intelligence to detect change and focus human attention. "Tourism" follows by popular demand, right up to the claim line and may be more.

4. Sources of real-time data-feed; anyone know or using SPOT5/2.5meter? Added: Check http://www.spot.com/web/SICORP/1801-goo ... rvices.php

Thus, a process could be:

a. Many souls put in $X per head to subscribe to sat imagery (2.5m resolution). May even receive funding from dept of Tourism?
b. Geo-register and patch into kml files and distribute on the hour or 6 hours etc.
c. Many, 1000s of individuals, "adopt a patch" each and watch round the clock, on their coffee or chai breaks, while riding the bus, taking a dump. Software highlights hot spots where change is detected, minimizing work.
d. They put tags, road, path, seems like a building, this was not there before, oh I see a hot chick.
e. Information is compiled by software and posted up for wikified travel and tourism, where more images get added by others.
g. A section leader uses his satphone with GPS to get information about his beat. More situational awareness.

Not a new idea of course, but a new context.

How much does this cost? A lot less than the normal route.
What does this accomplish? Situational awareness, that can't be brushed aside by media or censorship. And other things.

JMT
S

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 02 Oct 2009 21:48

AP continues to be dotted....

Anybody know what the region, I marked in red circle - upper left, just above Nanda Devi Biosphere Reserve is? I tried to zoom in, there are no labels for it.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 02 Oct 2009 22:49

surinder wrote:We recently got a globe. The intire state of Kashmir is shown as an independent country. Of course, Aksai Chin is solidly part of PRC, as is Taiwan. The Indian map looks wierd (like a headless person) without J&K. Wonder who made the globe?

Then I saw an atlas also which lists snippet summaries of countries. There is no summary for Taiwan, no population numbers etc. listed.

Welcome to Pax Sinica.

All made in China...