Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 16 Aug 2009 20:37

Senior officials say army chief General Ashfaq Kayani, who himself served as ISI head, has been supportive of Pakistan's return to civilian-led democracy while insisting that the army must look after its own affairs.

Since becoming army chief in November last year, Kayani has taken several steps to take the army out of politics, including ordering all officers out of civilian posts and barring them from meeting politicians.

He appointed a new ISI chief in September and replaced several senior officers.

The proof of the claimed disbanding would be a coup-less run for a decade or two. Kayani doing this is showing considerable magnanimity. Maybe, coups are no longer an easy game these days (1000 marines make a difference?)

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 16 Aug 2009 20:41

Jaswant calls Jinnah 'great Indian', blames Nehru for partition

He said Jinnah was a nationalist leader. "He fought the British for an independent India but also fought resolutely and relentlessly for the interest of Muslims of India... the acme of his nationalistic achievement was the 1916 Lucknow Pact of Hindu-Muslim unity," he said.

A question: how much time did Jinnah spend in jail for fighting the British for an independent India?

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 16 Aug 2009 20:49

Gerard wrote:Jaswant calls Jinnah 'great Indian', blames Nehru for partition
He said Jinnah was a nationalist leader. "He fought the British for an independent India but also fought resolutely and relentlessly for the interest of Muslims of India... the acme of his nationalistic achievement was the 1916 Lucknow Pact of Hindu-Muslim unity," he said.
A question: how much time did Jinnah spend in jail for fighting the British for an independent India?

Jinnah spent 0 days in jail for fighting the British for an independent India. Same is true for the rest of Muslim League leaders.

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 16 Aug 2009 20:49

Is it possible that by making it a Jinnah-Nehru spat, it becomes difficult for Congress to balance the two.

Looks unlikely. Congress has never tried to show any love for the Quaid-e-Azam.
OTOH, it can be used by the Congress to get back at the party with a difference.

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 16 Aug 2009 20:52

A question: how much time did Jinnah spend in jail for fighting the British for an independent India?

None.
He spent all his time fighting the Bania Hindus to create the land of the pure.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 16 Aug 2009 20:58

This guy was an arrogant SOB. HE made officials in SB park heir cars half a km away. Only his was allowed near the foyer. And this had nothing to do with security. Just arrogance. Look at him sucking up to the 'My friend Strobe' and pic after pic of Talbot givingg him the dirty look.

Guys like JS have never had a spine. They hanker after status and money. WTF did he do in the BJP off all parties all these years if he had to end up in bed dissing Nehru and praising Jinnah and that too falsely. This guy and LKA are not the Chankyian types they think they are. They are fools, they've never had the intelligence to realize why they were in the BJP. I never respected Advani after he said similar things about Jinnah and the 'Gita, Granth, Koran..dialogue'. And yes he hugged te Taliban thinking he'd do something Chankian. Fool! Pseudo Intellectual!

The Indian public would'nt elect BJP with LKA as top gun. They were wise. In hindsight i think the Indian public voted wisely. JMT/

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 16 Aug 2009 21:00

Jassu Bhai Mithawala has gone bonkers. Look at his statements..

Jinnah was 'demonised' by India

Oh! and BTW death of few millions by this crazy Djinn was not good enough to raise him to the category of a saint. Wonder how many relatives of Jassu were killed by fanatic Muslim mobs incited by Saint Jinnah.

even though it was Jawaharlal Nehru whose belief in a centralized system had led to the Partition

Has this fool forgotten what Jinnah was demanding. What is this love fest of Pakistan that grips Indian leaders and to imagine this man was A-lister leader in GOI just 5 years back. If nothing else then the only Good thing that JLN ever did was not to give in to demands of Jinnah and dhimmi Kangressi leaders who were willing to cut deals and make Jinnah PM of united India.

"Oh yes, because he created something out of nothing and single-handedly he stood against the might of the Congress party and against the British who didn't really like him... Gandhi himself called Jinnah a great Indian. Why don't we recognise that? Why don't we see (and try to understand) why he called him that," Singh said, when asked by Karan Thapar in an interview whether he viewed Jinnah as a great man.

Oh Yes and next year we will award Bharat Ratan to Saint Jinnah for his meritorious services. After All MKG called him a great man.
Pls let Mr. Singh peddle this BS about British not liking Jinnah somewhere else. I wonder if Indian leaders are wire tuned to hug , welcome and eventually offer sainthood to every marauder, looter and thug which raped and massacred this motherland of ours. Some chanikyan huh!

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 16 Aug 2009 21:00

kenop wrote:
A question: how much time did Jinnah spend in jail for fighting the British for an independent India?
None.
He spent all his time fighting the Bania Hindus to create the land of the pure.

That is why he is a suspect and British "loyalist". After 50 years the British archives shows that he was secretly in talks with Churchill during the negotiations for freedom of India and partition of India.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 16 Aug 2009 21:02

Dipanker wrote:Jinnah spent 0 days in jail for fighting the British

This is fascinating.

The British opposed all attempts to end their colonial rule. Whether in Ireland, Kenya, Jamaica, Malaya, all those who fought the British were jailed, shot, beaten etc. All over the empire, people were jailed.

For example Alexander Bustamante, the first PM of Jamaica (hardly a hotbed of anti-British rebellion) was jailed for two years by the British.

Not even one day in jail? When they were jailing people in Jamaica? This Jinnah was really a remarkable fellow

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 16 Aug 2009 21:04

Another self-inflicted nutshot by the BJP leadership...

It's another matter that the Paks will latch on only to the "Great Indian" part

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 16 Aug 2009 21:06

SSridhar wrote:Najam Sethi's son and his impressions of an Indian sojourn

archan · Post by **archan** » 16 Aug 2009 21:29

Ah, B Raman must be so pleased!

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 16 Aug 2009 21:45

harbans wrote:
83% favour stoning adulterers
80% favour whipping and cutting of hands of thieves
78% favour death penalty for leaving Islam
Now, what more do the Al Qaeda and Taliban want than the average Paki?

Well... to start with

17% paki population killed for not favouring stoning of adulterers
20% paki population mimed for no whipping and cutting the hands of thieves
22% paki population killed for not wanting to kill people leaving islam.

The remaining 41% pakis must turn to jeeeeeeeeeeeehad against the YYY consiparacy....

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 16 Aug 2009 22:02

Rama JI

That is madrassa math!

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 16 Aug 2009 22:05

vaman wrote:Rama JI

That is madrassa math!

He had his Al Qaida and Taliban hat on. What else do you expect?!

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 16 Aug 2009 22:11

Soldier, civilian killed in N Waziristan blast, firing
Sunday, August 16, 2009

PESHAWAR/MIRAMSHAH: An army soldier and a civilian died while several others sustained bullet injuries in a roadside blast and subsequent firing by the security forces in Danday Darpakhel and Paryat villages of North Waziristan Agency on Saturday.
.
.
The villagers said they made several attempts to go to the site and shift the injured to hospital, but their attempts proved fruitless as they were fired by the troops each time they proceeded.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 16 Aug 2009 22:21

Gilani wants Butt's removal

Karkala Joishy · Post by **Karkala Joishy** » 16 Aug 2009 22:24

Gagan wrote:
sreeji wrote:Some paki tryin to instigate Hyd muslims to speak against India in this video with generous Indian assistance. Why are pakis (other than ones needing med help or meeting relatives) given visas to come to India in the first place.
The response of the Hydrabad muslims is a resounding slap on the face of that Paki women. She was raised on the two nation theory of 'separate nation for the muslims of the subcontinent.'
Each muslim responded with a India zindabad, some even going to the extent to calling India the best of all the places they had visited.

The clincher was the guy saying that the people who moved to pakistan made a mistake.

Which video is this?

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 16 Aug 2009 22:29

Pakistani, other migrants freed from Greek container

ATHENS: Greek police said on Sunday they freed 10 migrants, eight of them from Pakistan, who had been kept in a shipping container in Athens and were mistreated by smugglers for a month.

negi · Post by **negi** » 17 Aug 2009 04:34

PCB does is again....downhill skiing and this time with raakkit pods.

'PCB withdrawing legal notice after ICC threat'

In a twist to the dispute between Pakistan Cricket Board and International Cricket Council, the world body has threatened PCB to terminate the host agreement if the legal notice served on it over the shifting of 2011 World Cup matches is not withdrawn.

A PCB governing council member on Sunday said that Pakistan has decided to withdraw the legal notice served on the ICC after the world body chief David Morgan issued a serious threat.

"Pakistan was told if it decides to pursue legal action then the ICC would terminate its host agreement and it would not be paid a single penny from the tournament," the member, who attended a governing council meeting here last week at which PCB chief Ejaz Butt gave a briefing on the talks with the ICC, said.

...

Karkala Joishy · Post by **Karkala Joishy** » 17 Aug 2009 08:14

Until these old f@rts of the BJP retire or die, I am off the BJP bandwagon. With Kangress, it's a known devil. With the BJP, you don't even know what you are getting.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 Aug 2009 08:26

kenop wrote:ISI's political wing disbanded
. . . Kayani has taken several steps to take the army out of politics, including ordering all officers out of civilian posts and barring them from meeting politicians.
The proof of the claimed disbanding would be a coup-less run for a decade or two. Kayani doing this is showing considerable magnanimity. Maybe, coups are no longer an easy game these days (1000 marines make a difference?)

The PA has a thousand ways to protect its interests. After the 1971 humiliation, the PA strategically retreated from public gaze and shrewdly asked ZAB to be the Chief Martial Law Administrator. However, as he went too far, the PA (i.e. the ISID) 'created' the PNA (Pakistan National Alliance and the Nizam-e-Mustafa movement) to contest him in elections. Similarly, after Zia was undone by the mangoes, Mirza Aslam Beg 'allowed' a democratic government to be formed and 'allowed' BB to assume power under the caveat that she would have absolutely nothing to do with the nuke programme, Kashmir, Foreign policy especially wrt India & Afghanistan. Then, when they were unhappy with her, they toppled her from power and prevented her from coming back to power by creating the IJI (Islami Jamhooriyat Ittehad) and disbursing large sums of money which is still being heard in the court. How Musharraf created the MMA is too well known. Gen. Kayani himself, as head of the ISID, conducted political parleys with BB & NS in events leading up to the 2008 elections.

In any case, the Pakistani politicians themselves run to the PA whenever a party they don't like is in power. Even as late as Dec. 2007, Ms. Benazir Bhutto thought it normal to ask the upcoming Jan, 2008 elections to be conducted under the supervision of the Army !

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 17 Aug 2009 09:20

Jaswant Singh IMO is preparing the ground to protect Echendee and swallow their pride to come back to India. Recall that he was the one pressing for increased access for Indians to visit pilgrimage sites in Sindh and Balochistan. He knows the tough situation his hindu rajput kinsmen are in in umerkot and other places. If this helps in opening up of another crossing point in Rajasthan, I am all for it.

He went on a pligrimage to Hinglaj mata's shrine in Balochistan in 2004 when he was sitting in the opposition.

As far as Jinnah goes, most middle class pakis know by now that partition was a disaster for all subcontinental muslims except for a few pakjabis. It is only a matter of time before it starts coming out in the open. Indians saying Jinnah was the chielf villian will only bring out the opposite reaction amongst pakis.

archan · Post by **archan** » 17 Aug 2009 09:44

So are you saying this was a Chankiyan move by JS?

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 17 Aug 2009 09:56

All I am saying is...these so called change of heart does not happen in a vacuum.

Advani , MMS, Jaswant Singh etc. all come from border states, have kinsmen in Pakistan, or have migrated from Pakistan. Either they are all WKKs or their antennaes are more attuned to the ground situation in Pakistan than we are. Could be both.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 Aug 2009 09:59

Pro-Sarkari Maulvi Nazir killed ?

“They were hiding behind rocks{somehow I thought momin would not hide behind rocks} and, as soon as our people reached there, they opened fire. It was so sudden and quick that none of our men could fire back,” Shaheen Wazir, Maulvi Nazir’s spokesman, told the Reuters news agency via telephone. However, another spokesman, Abdul Haq, told AFP the group was not blaming anyone. “We cannot say whether it was Mehsud’s men or the government that was behind this attack,” he added.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 17 Aug 2009 10:03

Karkala Joishy wrote:Which video is this?

This video is in that quote itself.

Here it is:
video

negi · Post by **negi** » 17 Aug 2009 10:12

Paul no one on forum cares two hoots about JS's personal opinion about Jinnah , it is his flawed arguments and false claims about Indian Muslims being treated like aliens in India which is being ridiculed here. I am yet to hear or see any GOI policy which has been against Muslim interests or has in anyway denied them freedom/liberty. As far as people to people interaction is concerned well it is not much different from what it is between a christian and a Hindu or any other religion.

People on forums and blogs

about a high % of Muslims struggling to make ends meet or even belonging to the BPL , however these liberals develop cold feet when we talk about encouraging Indians(including IMs) to practice family planning, send their kids to schools instead of madrasas or other religious institutes .

And then to make things worst liberals talk about religion based reservations which only get politicized and deepen the Hindu-Muslim divide ; and now we have enlightened souls like JS talk about alienation of IMs.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 17 Aug 2009 10:23

Whats up with the Bhaajpaa anyways? I think some think tank of theirs has advised them to gradually shift away from hindutva and extreme right wing groups and join the mainstream so to speak as a moderate party.
This they think is one way to do so. They think that talking good about Jinnah is the way to go about making a dent in the muslim vote bank.
Well they think wrong. This is insulting the intelligence of the average muslim. The current generation of muslims in India don't know who Jinnah was. They all know who Salman Khan is or who Katrina Kaif is. I think the average muslim is patriotic enough, except that he doesn't wear his patriotism on his shoulder and does not display it with the bells and the whistles.

The Jinnah card wont play, sorry. Thats stoopid.

AnimeshP · Post by **AnimeshP** » 17 Aug 2009 10:35

Gagan wrote:Whats up with the Bhaajpaa anyways? I think some think tank of theirs has advised them to gradually shift away from hindutva and extreme right wing groups and join the mainstream so to speak as a moderate party.
This they think is one way to do so. They think that talking good about Jinnah is the way to go about making a dent in the muslim vote bank.
Well they think wrong. This is insulting the intelligence of the average muslim. The current generation of muslims in India don't know who Jinnah was. They all know who Salman Khan is or who Katrina Kaif is. I think the average muslim is patriotic enough, except that he doesn't wear his patriotism on his shoulder and does not display it with the bells and the whistles.

The Jinnah card wont play, sorry. Thats stoopid.

You know .. I agree with you 100% on this ... Its mighty stupid of BJP or any other party to think that the key to the votes of Indian Muslims lies through Pakistan. Giving character certificates to Jinnah is not going to get them any points ...

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 Aug 2009 10:36

Pakistan and the US want to unite against terrorism

Uh. . . oh . . . I thought they were already united against terror. Hmmm. . .

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 Aug 2009 10:42

Sipah-e-Sahaba Chief Shot Dead

llama Sher Ali, chief of banned outfit Sipah-e-Sahaba was shot down along with his associate in Khairpur area of Dost Muhammed Abro area near Pir Jo Goth, Geo News reported Monday.

DPO Khairpur Pir Muhammed Shah told Geo News that religious scholar Ali Sher Hyderi was on his way back home from Dost Muhammed Abro to Pir Jo Goth, when some unidentified miscreants opened fire at him, killing him and his associate Imtiaz on the spot.

The attacker also was killed in the retaliatory fire by the guards; however, he could not be identified.

Later on, talking to Geo News, DPO Shah said Hyderi’s killing is the result of personal enmity, adding the attacker has been identified as Aushaq Ali Jagirani.

No problem. There is still another Emir of SSP, Brig (Retd) Zaheer ul Islam Abbasi.

Violence erupts in Karachi

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 17 Aug 2009 11:03

Paul wrote:All I am saying is...these so called change of heart does not happen in a vacuum.

Advani , MMS, Jaswant Singh etc. all come from border states, have kinsmen in Pakistan, or have migrated from Pakistan. Either they are all WKKs or their antennaes are more attuned to the ground situation in Pakistan than we are. Could be both.

We have to understand that they know the ground situation. They meet lot of Sindhi and Serieki people from Pakistan. If you recall the statements of the Past Paki foriegn minister under PM Aziz they admitted that they trusted NDA and were keen on finalizing the agreement with them.
Pakis need another channel of relationship which is different from the INC. But their home constituency has to be prepared so that the new relationship can be accepted.

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 17 Aug 2009 11:51

Gagan wrote:Whats up with the Bhaajpaa anyways? I think some think tank of theirs has advised them to gradually shift away from hindutva and extreme right wing groups and join the mainstream so to speak as a moderate party.
This they think is one way to do so. They think that talking good about Jinnah is the way to go about making a dent in the muslim vote bank.
Well they think wrong. This is insulting the intelligence of the average muslim. The current generation of muslims in India don't know who Jinnah was. They all know who Salman Khan is or who Katrina Kaif is. I think the average muslim is patriotic enough, except that he doesn't wear his patriotism on his shoulder and does not display it with the bells and the whistles.

The Jinnah card wont play, sorry. Thats stoopid.

I do not think that JS represents the BJP when he writes this book on Jinnah. He has an independent streak in him.

Maybe he has a point but politically it will be a hard sell. They cannot expect any gains from this. BJP just does not have the clout to sell this kind of revisionist history.

bart · Post by **bart** » 17 Aug 2009 12:06

I propose a new law (along the lines of Murphy's law):

The propensity of Indian politicians (Sharm el Shaikh, Jaswant Singh etc) to score own goals, is exceeded only by the ability of BRF-ites to find Chanakian motives for them.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 17 Aug 2009 12:11

Every civil war has at least two sides. In TSP the two political sides are the Wahabbi Tafriki Salafist Jihadist Talibanism on the one hand and Jinnah's Pakistan on the other.

Indian establishment has seen the steady weakening of Jinnah's Pakistan, with which India had reached 30% detente and 2% entente

. With the Tafrikis, Indian Establishment would not be able to reach even 1% detente.

Whereas with Jinnah's children the discourse was about coexistence as one nation or as two nations, about borders of the two nations, the discourse with the Tafrikis would be about coexistence or not per se, coexistence of Momeen and Munafiqs, coexistence of Mussalman and Kufr. That is a discourse, the Indian Polity does not want to forced into.

That is the thinking regardless of whether we talk about MMS and INC, or about LKA, Rajnath, Jaswant and BJP.

Indian Establishment has decided to bolster Jinnah's Pakistan, it being the lesser evil. MMS is doing it with Sharm-el-Sheikh Joint Statements and Jaswant is doing it by recasting Jinnah historically.

Even if it would be in India's strategic interest to see the death of Jinnah's Pakistan which morphed into an India-hating nuclear-armed terrorism-sponsoring Pakjabi ruled Pakistan, India does not want to be seen as being the sponsor of its death, when the replacement would much much worse.

Al Qaida + Taliban + Jaish-e-Mohammed + Lashkar-e-Jhangvi + Sipah-e-Sahiba are already dealing Jinnah's Pakistan a severe blow, not only ideologically but also territorially. Jinnah's Pakistan is being weakened by the minute. By bolstering Jinnah's Pakistan, India could hope of recovering some part of it, territorially speaking, for posterity, one hope being that under attack by the Tafrikis a much weakened Jinnah's Pakistan could shed its integral hate for its supporter, India. Were it not for the incessant weakening of Jinnah's Pakistan and the confidence in its ultimate demise, any bolstering by India would have been idiocy of the highest order.

Both the weakening of Jinnah's Pakistan and the perceived bolstering of it by India is important, for a possible transition to multiple statelets aligned with India and playing their role as a buffer for India.

In the long run, this is how it was supposed to be, and it is in India's interest. MMS and BJP are only playing their roles in the Pakistan Transition Game.

Raja Ram · Post by **Raja Ram** » 17 Aug 2009 12:12

Mr. Jinnah was an egotistical power hungry individual. He may have started of as an ardent nationalist, he ended up as a power hungry communal vile and vindicitive individual who collaborated with the British and ensured that an artificial state was created just to please his craven hunger for power. Like other monsters of history such as Hitler, Mao and Stalin, this man has the blood of thousands on his hands. To call him a great Indian is downright stupidity.

It is becoming a fashionable trend nowadays in this forum and elsewhere to try and find the heights of chanakyan thinking in in inane and downright stupid statements. I for one do not subscribe to this nonsense. There is nothing chanakyan in this statement. It has to be condemened in the same way the performance of our PM in S-e-S. Jaswant Singh should have known better.

It seems to me that a section of Indian political elite across both the national parties hold a view that Pakistan can be cast as a modern secular state if they give symbolic signals to them that we have accepted the reality of Pakistan. ABV did that in Minar-e-Pakistan, LKA did that with his Jinnah speech in Pakistan, now jaswant with his book. Across the board, in the congress, MMS and co claim that war is not an option, why foreclose something that is possible?, they keep claiming that India will go more than half way to meet Pakistan, keep saying that Pakistan's stability is vital to India and keep talking of a South Asian identity.

Both parties say these things. Do they mean it? Maybe partially they do. I am not sure what they intend to achieve with these sort of statements. Influence Indian muslims or keep endorsing pakistan and Jinnah so much that Pakistanis themselves realise the folly of Jinnah and hold him responsible for their plight? Nothing succeeds in uniting pakis against something than India's endorsement.

Whatever it is, the reality is that Pakistan should cease to exist first. That is in India's interest. What happens after that is something that can be dealt with. Some of the constituents may want to return, some may want to be independent but join a EU type arrangement for South Asia. But what is clear now, is that both parties are not yet ready to publicly acknowledge the fact that pakistan should cease to exist. That is the reason why such blatently stupid assertions are being made.

Jaswant Singh has let the nation down again. Just as MMS did. It is dissappointing. Other than selling copies of his new book, he has insulted great indians by calling Mr. Jinnah as a great indian. He may not have been the first to do so and will not be the last. But did he have to at all?

We need realist and pragmatic leaders like Rajaji and Sardar Patel. India waits in vain for such real leaders.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 17 Aug 2009 12:13

bart wrote:I propose a new law (along the lines of Murphy's law):

The propensity of Indian politicians (Sharm el Shaikh, Jaswant Singh etc) to score own goals, is exceeded only by the ability of BRF-ites to find Chanakian motives for them.

I provide you with arguments for this imperative need.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 17 Aug 2009 12:19

Raja Ram ji,

Both MMS and BJP are flocking to make peace with Pakistan and Jinnah. Can it be that we consider our politicians to be far too preoccupied with vote-bank politics, that we project all their moves, stances to be directed only at domestic politics and completely ignore that these messages can be directed at a Pakistani audience as well, and that too for sound and strategic reasons?

How did Hinduism spread? It was by appropriating the gods of a conquered and defeated land, and calling them avatars of the gods of one's own pantheon. Jinnah is the newest entry into India's pantheon of patriots, so as to coopt Jinnah's children in Pakistan, a failed and defeated country. Jinnah is taking the last gasp in Pakistan, and so his children need a new home, a new framework. Of course, a lot of lies will be fabricated and accepted by the Indian establishment in order to rehabilitate the good old Jinnah, but this is considered a small price to pay for India to be able to be take part in the reorganization of Pakistan, both territorially and ideologically.

Our politicians are finally doing some international power politics, and we may not be noticing it! May be they too are aware of the death certificate of Pakistan lying in the drawer, only nobody wants to speak of it too openly. May be "Pakistan is a failed state" is not only a mantra for some psy-ops on Pakistan, but rather the working assumption, the premise for a new project.

The politics for the creation of a successor political regional structure in place of Pakistan have already started.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 17 Aug 2009 12:55

I would'nt read too much into ascribing any motive/ chankian move to any of the present set of Politicians today. Being though on the slightly jingoist side, participation in forums such as these leads to a much higher situational awareness of the on-ground developing sitation with the adequate amount of historical backing/ supporting and counter points of views than just gleaning info by meeting up a couple of hours with a limited number of bureaucrats/ fellow politicians or flipping through half a dozen edits in daily newspapers. And thats what most Politicians if they are good at there work do at the maximum o get wind of developments. I am more inclined to believe Gaganji when he says:

I think some think tank of theirs has advised them to gradually shift away from hindutva and extreme right wing groups and join the mainstream so to speak as a moderate party.

And JS is an arrogant fool. Sanjay Choudhary put it aptly, he aspires beng remembered as an intellectual, something he is forcing himself and it looks unnatural on him. A Pakisan wih Jinnahs ideology will be a danger and threat to India and so will a Talibanisque regime. I cannot like some Indians think of participating in forums like D n D who think they can bringg about a change of heart by slamming Modi or BJP and taking the worst possible abuse. The Indians on D n D think the Paki are like them, the Paki's think the Indians are like them..hateful, cunning, willing to backstab, casteist, racist, dumb, tech incapable and religiously all out to persecute minorities.

To reall know what the oher party thinks like, don't think of others like you are or feel..think like them. Same with the Chinese, they think India is aggressive, war mongering, will cheat in trade even while they run a 40 billion USD surplus.

Thats wh MMS, IKG, KPN, JS would like to think that a few elder brotherly hugs and cocktail sessions will bringg the bonhomie back as we are basically alike. Ghazwa e Hind has never crossed their minds, generationa have been blacked out on the truth about Islamic atrocities in India. Almost no one in policy making realizes in 120 years and less the Indian subcontinent will be a Islamic majority. An family planningg in Pakistan? They've gone 30 odd million to 180 million plus in just 60 years. Same with BD. No fences can prevent them spilling over. You have no choice bt to tackle the ideology. Even if we become the3 worlds richest and most tech advances nation in the world in 60 years, we are looking at an Islamic republic of India within the next 50 of it happening. Bharat will then change over to Mughalistan. The revenge for Babri Masjid and Gjarat will recurr even in 2080 with greater vengeance till Dharma is fully obliterated.