Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - July 07, 2009

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 17 Aug 2009 13:04

Looks like Pakistan has issues with its stock of fissile material

In a stunning reversal of its stand, Pakistan has stalled the start of negotiations on a Fissile Material Cut-off Treaty despite having given its consent three months ago to a hard fought consensus decision. This has raised concerns over Islamabad’s intentions, which has cited “national security interests” for this sudden change.

What else does "national security interests" mean? May be acting as proxy for China? No clue.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 17 Aug 2009 13:08

harbans wrote:The revenge for Babri Masjid and Gjarat will recurr even in 2080 with greater vengeance till Dharma is fully obliterated.

By 2080 there will be at least 2 world wars in this part of the world. Millions of people will die and during the time we can clean the mess.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 17 Aug 2009 13:09

Gerard,

Jinnah was never jailed because he was more British that the British.

If he were alive, we would not have swine flu in India. He would have consumed all the swine in India and washed it down with whisky!

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 17 Aug 2009 13:13

This is really hilarious. Zaid Hamid wannabe Ahmaed Qureshi has channel called paknationalists on youtube.

Following is one of his comments on a video from Mongolia.

paknationalists commented on hunting wolves with a golden eagle in Mongolia. Kazajstán-Ky (3 weeks ago) "This is our heritage too in Pakistan. We became urbanized later but this is where some of our ancestors came from. We share the Mongolians this shared Chughtai heritage and history."

This dude looks like an Indian and he talks about origins in Mongolia. I can't believe this. Arabs have been replaced by Mongols as the chosen ones. For some reason Pakistani have really hidden the Mongol connection very well because nobody has ever confused a Pakistani for a Mongol.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 17 Aug 2009 13:18

By 2080 there will be at least 2 world wars in this part of the world. Millions of people will die and during the time we can clean the mess.

By 2080 you're looking conservatively at over 2 Billion Muslims in the subcontinent. No world war with millions dead also is going to take care of the Islamization of India.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 17 Aug 2009 13:19

There have been too many pro-Pakistan and pro-Jinnah statements from Indian Establishment for us to be left only with the theory that all Indian politicians are reliving a bout of collective stupidity, and/or a bout of anti-national appeasement politics.

Other theories have to be considered.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 17 Aug 2009 13:27

harbans wrote:By 2080 you're looking conservatively at over 2 Billion Muslims in the subcontinent. No world war with millions dead also is going to take care of the Islamization of India.

I have thought about it but the way things are going there be a war within Muslims (Extremists V/s. Moderate) and i am not even considering Shia's V/s. Sunnis.

We have to stay united till that time.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 17 Aug 2009 13:56

^^ I don't concur with that and maintain that Muslims are not the problem but a victim of the root problem.

Anways Vacuum blast once again:

ISLAMABAD: At least 10 people were killed and a dozen others injured when a bomb planted in a pick-up truck went off in an area in Pakistan's
northwest bordering the lawless tribal belt today.

The device exploded when the vehicle was in a petrol pump at Shabqadar, a town 70 km from the North West Frontier Province capital of Peshawar. The town is also located near the boundary with the Mohmand tribal region.

Women and children were among the dead and injured, TV news channels reported. The injured, several of them in a critical condition, were taken to hospitals in Peshawar.

Security forces cordoned off the area and started a search soon after the blast.

No group claimed responsibility for the attack, which occurred hours after two security personnel were killed and three more injured when a suicide bomber detonated his explosives in a bid to escape being arrested in the restive Swat valley.

The attacker blew himself up shortly after he was stopped at a check post in Mingora, the main city in Swat, last night.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news ... 901405.cms

Rishi · Post by **Rishi** » 17 Aug 2009 14:05

Sipah-i-Sahaba leader Haideri shot dead

Gunmen killed the leader of a sectarian group branded a terrorist organization by the US in southern Pakistan early Monday, police said. His supporters staged riots in response, but no injuries were reported.

Ali Sher Haideri was gunned down along with a guard as they drove in Sindh province around 220 miles northeast of Karachi, the country’s largest city, officer Pir Mohammad Shah said.

One of the attackers was killed as Haideri’s guards returned fire, he said.

Haideri was the spiritual leader of Sipah-e-Sahaba, an extremist Sunni group blamed for attacks against the country’s minority Shiites, whom they regard as heretics.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 17 Aug 2009 14:58

WTF!!

RAWALPINDI: A Pakistan International Airline (PIA) flight to Lahore was diverted to Islamabad on Friday after a woman singer on board started shouting for her purse which she believed had forgotten at the departure lounge of Benazir Bhutto International Airport, Dawn has learnt.

Shabnam Majeed, who was flying back to Lahore in the PIA flight PK-653 after performing at the Independence Day celebration at the Presidency overnight, started shouting mid-flight and forced the pilot to divert back the flight to Islamabad.

She claimed that the purse contained Rs18,000 in cash, credit card and gold ornaments.
After the PIA flight was diverted back to Islamabad, the singer was brought to the departure lounge to search her missing purse, but her effort proved unproductive.

Finally, she lodged a complaint with the PIA authorities and again boarded the flight for Lahore but it all caused a considerable delay of the flight and inconvenience to the passengers as well.—Mohammad Asghar

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... ort--bi-12

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 17 Aug 2009 15:21

x-posting from internal security watch,

just saw on tv that 9 Pakistanis posing as fishermen arrested in Kutch by BSF, they admitted they were not fishermen. Not much more details as of now but it sounded like they were planning an attack!

Pakistan back in business!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 Aug 2009 15:27

RayC wrote:If he were alive, we would not have swine flu in India. He would have consumed all the swine in India and washed it down with whisky!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 Aug 2009 15:36

Yogi_G wrote:x-posting from internal security watch,

just saw on tv that 9 Pakistanis posing as fishermen arrested in Kutch by BSF, they admitted they were not fishermen. Not much more details as of now but it sounded like they were planning an attack!
Pakistan back in business!

Yogi, that's an unjust characterization of Pakistan. Do you mean to say that for some time at least they were not in business ? That borders on insult to the TFTA mard.

My worry, apart from the imminent attack, is what would the PM and his coterie do now after having delinked terrorism from dialogue, after sympathizing with Pakistan being also a victim of terror and after stating that the dynamics of India-Pakistan relationship should not be held hostage to the fate of one or two individuals etc. etc. All that was attributed to chanakyanness. But, somebody needs to explain to the soon-to-be-victims-yet-again SDRE Indians, how that chanakyanness is going to stop the next attack which the the PM himself is expecting any time now.

"We have credible information of an ongoing ploy of terrorist groups in Pakistan to carry out fresh attacks," the Prime Minister said while addressing a meeting on internal security attended by Chief Ministers.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 17 Aug 2009 15:48

Hullo.... I have been trying to find the thread where Jasoo's book was causing a furore and join in. I tried to highlight it before but it sunk without a trace.

I will now pitch in and make some statements
1) The HT report or Jasoo's book is a rag.
2) I heard what Jasoo said about his book in a interview with Karan Thapar where is explained his position very well -- some points were gorgeous.
3) What I have heard/read of the work so far, Jasoo seems to almost verbatim quote what Brihs. Ramana and Achayara have said about the Nehru-Gandhi-Jinaah work.

All in all Jasoo has raised some very important question about partition, the nazariya-e-pak, the effect of formation of Pakistan on IMs the blatant failure of Nehru (he has claimed that Jinaah and Nehru were practically tag teaming) Jinaah later use of Islamism as a force when he realized that Islamism was being used by Nehru etc.

I would strongly advise BRFites to delve a little deeper than the HT hatchet piece before and making a judgment.

And SanjayC -- Jasoo said that he was not a academic and just a hack and it would have been better for some one more learned to write but has it happens the "intellutcals" are regurigating the standard Kangress propaganda about partion so some one had to do it.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 17 Aug 2009 16:47

As i said before, there is no point in reading too much into JSs motives..people read too much into reason while the reason why Bhutto got hanged, Invasion of Iraq, Saddam and family liquidated with a vengeance or Mahatma Gandhi's zeal in geting rid of colonialism IMHO lay in a simple insult.

Bhutto insulted Zia many a time in front of diplomats and such in many gatherings. He called him 'his little monkey' or something to that effect. Zia only smiled back at Bhutto. But for years he'd made it a conscious decision witin himself, he'd haul this anglicized macaulite over the coals given the chance..he did.

GWB Senior and Junior witnessed Saddam plastering the entrances all the biggest and poshest 5 star hotels in Baghdad with the United States emblem and picture of GWB Senior. When Junior came in he just needed the chance to take family revenge. He did so against Saddams entire family..

Mahatma Gandhi was on his way to becoming a perfect Macaulite and cocont before that white train conductor kicked him ignominously out of the compartment. That rankle and insult became the source of his motivation..

People read too much into motives and sometimes overanalyze issues. JS is just too arrogant to have an intellectual depth IMHO..

Anyways JMHT/

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 17 Aug 2009 17:25

JS talks to KT. (Devil's Advocate)
http://ibnlive.in.com/videos/99321/nehr ... swant.html

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 17 Aug 2009 17:35

Friends,
Can we please take this Jaswant Singh's book discussion to some other thread. This thread is for Bakistan and not on what somebody thinks was the case about origins of it.
With the elimination of SSP chief and attack on Baitullah Mehsud, things are going to become more interesting. Can we please concentrate on coverage of those events and comments on them.
If needed please create another Jaswant Singh Harakiri thread on lines of S-e-S thread, to which these whines can be limited.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 17 Aug 2009 17:47

Kiwis want $750,000 from Pakistan to host Test series

According to a PCB official, Pakistan will not be able to raise enough funds for the series as there is a lack of interest from sponsors for Test matches. But Pakistan is also desperate to play Test matches as its team has just played four Tests in the last 20 months.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 17 Aug 2009 18:12

So what dear PM are you going to do about it when it happens the next time?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 798985.ece

Pakistan terror groups 'plotting more attacks on India'
(David Guttenfelder/Reuters)

India suspended peace talks with Pakistan in the wake of terrorist attacks on Mumbai in November

Rhys Blakely, in Mumbai

Battle-hardened Pakistan-based terrorists are plotting fresh attacks against India, the Indian Prime Minister claimed today, citing a recent sharp rise in the number of insurgents attempting to infiltrate the volatile border between the two countries.

Manmohan Singh told India’s state chief ministers and police officials at a security conference: “There is credible information of ongoing plans of terrorist groups in Pakistan to carry out fresh attacks.”

The warning comes nine months after ten gunmen trained by the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) terrorist group attacked Mumbai in a commando-style raid, killing 166 people.

Mr Singh added: “The infiltrators [entering Kashmir] appear more battled hardened, better equipped and in possession of sophisticated communications.”

Since July, at least 30 people have been killed in firefights along the de facto border that divides Kashmir between India and Pakistan, and 14 infiltration attempts have been made — double that of last year during the same period, according to Indian officials.

The increase in violence has raised fears that the insurgency that has claimed at least 47,000 lives in the Himalayan region over the past two decades is about to enter a bloody new phase.

In the wake of the November attack on Mumbai, India suspended peace talks with Pakistan and said that they could be resumed only if Pakistan acted to dismantle the “terrorist network” on its soil.

More recently, Mr Singh has been iercely criticised by opponents — and by some members of his own party — for taking a more conciliatory a line towards Pakistan, after he suggested that matters such as commerce could be discussed seperately from the terrorism issue.

India has long accused Pakistan of arming and training Islamist militants in the Kashmir region, over which the nuclear armed neighbours have fought two wars.

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 17 Aug 2009 19:06

Philip wrote:So what dear PM are you going to do about it when it happens the next time?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 798985.ece

Pakistan terror groups 'plotting more attacks on India'

Mr. Philip, please pay attention !! I have already mentioned in my statement to the Parliament regarding my wonderful statesman like behavior at Sharm el Sheikh, that war with Pakistan is not an option. When the next terrorist strike happens, we will run to our guardian angel across the Atlantic and ask them what to do. Perhaps, we will have more joint statements like before. Perhaps we can come to an understanding regarding the core issue between India and Pakistan which is the disputed region of the whole of Jammu and Kashmir. I understand they have an issue about the Sir Creek also, perhaps we can come to an understanding regarding that also. I am sure through such actions and enlightened diplomacy, we can convince the mischief makers across the border to stop being mischief makers for the betterment of the South Asian region. I have complete faith in their wisdom and whatever the guardian angel's advise is, it would be in the best interest of the Indian subcontinent...I mean the larger South Asian region. Additionally, I do have to mention that regarding Balochistan, we are an open book.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 17 Aug 2009 19:27

^^
Missed out to mention that "I am a world citizen".

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 17 Aug 2009 19:29

IED mubarak onlee.
Bomb on passenger truck kills 7 in NW Pakistan

PESHAWAR, Pakistan — A bomb exploded on a truck at a fuel station in northwestern Pakistan on Monday, killing seven people, police said, while the Taliban claimed responsibility for two weekend suicide attacks in a valley recently retaken by the army.

Gunmen also assassinated the leader of a feared Sunni sectarian group, triggering rioting in three southern cities.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 17 Aug 2009 19:34

harbans wrote:By 2080 there will be at least 2 world wars in this part of the world. Millions of people will die and during the time we can clean the mess.

By 2080 you're looking conservatively at over 2 Billion Muslims in the subcontinent. No world war with millions dead also is going to take care of the Islamization of India.

2 Billion is an exaggerated figure, I guess it would be around the billion mark at most.

But once the muslim population in the sub continent surpasses the Hindu population (whenever that happens), I'm inclined to believe that we will see a paradigm shift in the psyche of the Indian muslim community, for the worse. The only way to save India is total annihilation of Pakistan and gradual conversion of IMs to their true dharma. Anything less than that and our worst fears will come true.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 17 Aug 2009 19:40

US detains Pakistani reporter for unknown reason

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 17 Aug 2009 19:54

2 Billion is an exaggerated figure, I guess it would be around the billion mark at most.

Bakistan in 1951: 33 million Paki's
Bakistan in 2011: 189 million Paki's

60 years population pops up 6 times,
70 years from now it's likely to go up at least 4 times? Thats 756 million..

Consider this then in 2080:

Bakistan: 750 million
India: 650 Million
Bangladesh: 700 Million

Total: 2100 Million Muslims in the Indian subcontinent. If you consider 2100...Hindu's are a minority..and going by known Baki standards a fast vanishing one from then on..

rohiths · Post by **rohiths** » 17 Aug 2009 20:37

We are being too paranoid.
Bangladesh is doing much better than India in population control. (Sad but true)They have a TFR is 2.1 already whereas India is still in 2.5-2.6 range.
Their population will peak and decrease from 2040 onwards. [Refer UN population statistics 2009]

Bakis are expected to be around 350 million in number but it is very doubtful if 350 million potential suicide bombers can live with each other without blowing each other up

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 17 Aug 2009 20:50

Bangladesh is doing much better than India in population control. (Sad but true)

You believe that? There's a significant percentage of that population coming into India in that case for certain. Demographics all around BD are changing very rapidly.

We are being too paranoid.

No paranoid thing here. In 150 years which is nothing much on a historical scale, just 2 full generations..we are looking at being absolute minorities in India. There's no famil planning workingg in BD or Pakistan. They don't have a developed census mechanism. I know hundreds of Paki's, they are breeding like there is no limitation of land or resource..

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Aug 2009 21:14

rohiths wrote:We are being too paranoid.
Bangladesh is doing much better than India in population control. (Sad but true)They have a TFR is 2.1 already whereas India is still in 2.5-2.6 range.

I think your figures are wrong. I am unable to confirm this on a net search.

karthik · Post by **karthik** » 17 Aug 2009 21:20

rohiths wrote:We are being too paranoid.
Bangladesh is doing much better than India in population control. (Sad but true)They have a TFR is 2.1 already whereas India is still in 2.5-2.6 range.
Their population will peak and decrease from 2040 onwards. [Refer UN population statistics 2009]

Bakis are expected to be around 350 million in number but it is very doubtful if 350 million potential suicide bombers can live with each other without blowing each other up

Don't you think it could be because of poor census reading, rather than any substantial difference done by the government?I haven't heard of any population control plan by the government there. I think there are some private NGOs spreading awareness and apart from that there is not much.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 17 Aug 2009 21:25

AoA !!!!!! No SEX no FOOD! More Sharia needed in Bakistan!! Breed.. breed.. breed..

Afghanistan has enacted a new legislation empowering men of Shia sect of Islam to deny their wives food and sustenance if they refuse to obey their husbands' sexual demands, a media report said on Saturday.

The new final draft of the legislation also grants guardianship of children exclusively to their fathers and grandfathers, and requires women to get permission from their husbands to work, The Guardian reported.

"It also effectively allows a rapist to avoid prosecution by paying 'blood money' to a girl who was injured when he raped her," the report said quoting US charity Human Rights Watch.

In early April, US President Barack Obama and British Prime Minister Gordon Brown joined an international chorus of condemnation when the earlier version of the law legalised rape within marriage.

Although Afghan President Hamid Karzai appeared to back down, activists said the revised law still contained repressive measures and contradicted Afghanistan's constitution and international treaties it is signed up to.

According to the report, the new law has been backed by the hardline Shia cleric Ayatollah Mohseni, who is thought to have influence over the voting intentions of some Shias, who make up around 20 per cent of the population.

Karzai has assiduously courted such minority leaders in the run up to next Thursday's election, which is likely to be close, a poll indicated on Saturday.

http://www.ndtv.com/news/world/no_sex_n ... nistan.php

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 17 Aug 2009 21:29

harbans wrote:In 150 years which is nothing much on a historical scale, just 2 full generations

Are you sure there will be Pakistan after 150 years. You have to consider lot of stuff if you are thinking about 2080 or 2160. World Wars, Nuclear & Chemical wars, etc.

If India position is so bad then what will happen to America by 2080 ?

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 17 Aug 2009 21:31

rohiths wrote:We are being too paranoid.
Bangladesh is doing much better than India in population control. (Sad but true)They have a TFR is 2.1 already whereas India is still in 2.5-2.6 range.
Their population will peak and decrease from 2040 onwards. [Refer UN population statistics 2009]

Bakis are expected to be around 350 million in number but it is very doubtful if 350 million potential suicide bombers can live with each other without blowing each other up

By 2040, there will a Wazirizstan, Meshudina, United Emirates of Altaf Hussain, Sharifistan, Bhutto's Republic of Benaziristan, Kingdom of Lalbrofessor etc etc.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 17 Aug 2009 21:42

Are you sure there will be Pakistan after 150 years. You have to consider lot of stuff if you are thinking about 2080 or 2160. World Wars, Nuclear & Chemical wars, etc.

Irrespective. I basicall stated that there would be aound 2 billion Muslims in the subcontinent. So whether we take a Pakistan split into 3/5 or 10 doesn't matter. At the rate at which the breed what is present day Bakistan will be around those figures +- 50 million / +- a decade. Similar growth laws will apply to BD and Indian muslims.

Also remember that global warming may cause a 3rd of BD land to be claimed by the sea. BD in 20 years would be like all of US squashed into Wisconsin. They already have a percapita density greater than city states like Singapore..

You cannot base your planning for the future on some world wars, famines etc. If you don't have a vision for what is unravelling in 2080 without a WW/ plague/ unknown..then there is no strategic way you can plan for tomorrow.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 17 Aug 2009 21:44

There is a race. What happens first -

a) The Muslims grow so much in number that they subdue the political systems of India and other liberal democratic countries as well as other religions, or

b) Their financing runs dry, along with Peak Oil, and their mouths run dry along with the diversion of the Indus by India and Brahmaputra by the Chinese? Are the deserts of Arabia going to support the 2 billion Muslims? Is technology going to be their savior?

The plains of India and Europe are their only chance to feed their billions. If they don't get control over these lands by then, then it is over the cliff after 2-3 decades of world misery. After that every Muslim in the world will be begging to be accepted as a Hindu, a Jew or a Christian.

With their level of technical know how, they face ruinus maximus, and those who do show promise will be cut down literally by the pious maximus.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 17 Aug 2009 21:49

harbans wrote: You cannot base your planning for the future on some world wars, famines etc. If you don't have a vision for what is unravelling in 2080 without a WW/ plague/ unknown..then there is no strategic way you can plan for tomorrow.

Hi,

Wars will always be there. With population increase there will wars fought because of water, food, etc. Religion would be the last thing in mind.

Ever thought by 2080 some western countries will start operating Gas Chambers....

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 17 Aug 2009 21:53

harbans wrote:You cannot base your planning for the future on some world wars, famines etc. If you don't have a vision for what is unravelling in 2080 without a WW/ plague/ unknown..then there is no strategic way you can plan for tomorrow.

1. Move from Oil to some other energy fuel.
2. Stop migration of Muslims into rest of the world, through strict immigration laws and water-tight borders.
3. Increase the level of Tafrikiat and violence, discouraging technological innovation, good medical care.
4. Use biological agents to finish off poppy crops.
5. Encourage Gulf countries to throw out Pakistanis and others for reasons of security, thereby decreasing remittances.
6. Give financial encouragement to IMs and European Muslims to leave Islam completely or convert to a revolutionary reformist and liberal Islam-variation.
7. Give no financial support to parents in Europe, if they do not work (aka Pakistanis in Norway)...

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 17 Aug 2009 22:03

Rajesh/ Shravan, don't blame me for stating the obvious, but it seems you are relying on really radical worst case scenarios. Whereas liberalism has done away with our stomach to see suffering in such a large scale. Even the worst effected countries in WW2 like Russia lost around 20 million. total losses i guess over 6 years would be around maximum 45 million people. Here we are talking hundreds of billions..the better less violent/ virulent solution is the conversion of the rest to Islam (thats what liberal thought will jump to)..do we need another thread to discuss this?

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 17 Aug 2009 22:07

In 150 years which is nothing much on a historical scale, just 2 full generations

Wrong there are 5 generations in 150 years. A new generation comes up every 25-30 years

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 17 Aug 2009 22:09

Miscreants bomb 220 KV tower in Nasirabad

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 17 Aug 2009 22:19

Wrong there are 5 generations in 150 years. A new generation comes up every 25-30 years

Agree. I used 'full' because those who are born today many of their very children will be alive 150 years later. So i consider my fathers generation and my generation..2 'full' generations only. Thats not a big deal. But when we talk about the future, we must at the minimum think 50 or 60 or a 100 years ahead. Think what if we crack the 3 stage by 2040, rise by 2060 as the worlds most affluent power, and then in 40 more years which is peanuts on the generational time scale get Islamized. Will all the 3 stage programs, high technology Avatars and hyper sonic shuttles in space etc all these become owned by the Islamic Republic of India in another 40 years or 60? Are you satisfied by just reaching a technological and material pinnacle and be done with in a 150 years? (And yes victors history once again will show how Islam developed India)

Did Vivekananda dream 160 years ago an Islamized India, or did he an enlightened one? What is the future you are thinking off? We have to bne planning that now. Not when we are swamped and reliant on wars/ plague or famine.