India-US News and Discussion

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 18 Aug 2009 00:14

I've no idea what you said there Sanku.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 18 Aug 2009 00:20

Manny wrote:I've no idea what you said there Sanku.

You are not correct about Americans being unaware of outside world, as a % of population more Americans care about what happens outside US that would people in India.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 18 Aug 2009 00:21

Sanku wrote:
Manny wrote:I've no idea what you said there Sanku.
You are not correct about Americans being unaware of outside world, as a % of population more Americans care about what happens outside US that would people in India.

I cannot disagree....but my overall point still stands.

AbhishekD · Post by **AbhishekD** » 18 Aug 2009 00:33

What Sanku is saying is that it is your status that has changed as you move from India to America, not American vision or Indian vision.

Simple fact is that a elite Indian when he comes to America enters the working class in America and sees the America of a working class not the elite class. If you end up being someone kind Paris Hilton or even a uber rich multi-millionaire your knowledge of the world will be vastly enhanced, much more than a normal elite Indian.

An elite knows most about America and that too through Hollywood and somethings about Europe. He has no idea about South America, Africa or even China and Japan. An elite American will know about several regions of the world, their culture, tourism circuits and even tastes. It is not true to say that Americans dont know about the world outside. An average Indian does not know anything outside his village, town, district or atmost state. An average Indian is highly local and we elite like to call them "gawar", illetrate.

The conclusion is simple that an average americans worldview is much broader than an average indians worldview

AbhishekD · Post by **AbhishekD** » 18 Aug 2009 00:33

What Sanku is saying is that it is your status that has changed as you move from India to America, not American vision or Indian vision.

Simple fact is that a elite Indian when he comes to America enters the working class in America and sees the America of a working class not the elite class. If you end up being someone kind Paris Hilton or even a uber rich multi-millionaire your knowledge of the world will be vastly enhanced, much more than a normal elite Indian.

An elite knows most about America and that too through Hollywood and somethings about Europe. He has no idea about South America, Africa or even China and Japan. An elite American will know about several regions of the world, their culture, tourism circuits and even tastes. It is not true to say that Americans dont know about the world outside. An average Indian does not know anything outside his village, town, district or atmost state. An average Indian is highly local and we elite like to call them "gawar", illetrate.

The conclusion is simple that an average americans worldview is much broader than an average indians worldview

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 18 Aug 2009 00:35

Thanks AbhishekD, thats what I was trying to say indeed.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 18 Aug 2009 00:38

DELETED

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 18 Aug 2009 00:47

Shravan, that article has already been posted in the previous page and people are discussing it on this page too. Please remove the duplicate post. Just adds noise. Thx!

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 18 Aug 2009 00:50

RaviBg wrote:Shravan, that article has already been posted in the previous page and people are discussing it on this page too. Please remove the duplicate post. Just adds noise. Thx!

Sorry. I searched for the title but i was unable to find the article so i posted it.

Thanks.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Aug 2009 01:07

The odd thing is Sharukh Khan was in Northern California for location shooting of his film only a few weeks ago. And he is a frequent visitor to US. Yet his name shows up in a databse! Must be galling for all his portrayals of US in his films since mid-90s. He ends up with atleast one film set in US every year from 1996?

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 18 Aug 2009 05:29

US aid to Pak being used against India: Krishna

External Affairs Minister S M Krishna has said that military aid being given to Pakistan by the US to fight terror groups is being directed against India and New Delhi has ‘emphatically registered’ its concerns about the same with the US government.

“Whatever aid has been given, whatever arms have been given (under the military aid program) is invariably directed against India. This has been emphatically registered with the US,” Krishna said after launching a website on India-Africa in the capital.
...
...
“We have also impressed on the US government that it is desirable that whenever they are going to provide

aid to any nation, it should be the primary responsibility of the US government to see that the aid is being spent for purpose for which it has been sanctioned,” Krishna said.
...

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 18 Aug 2009 06:04

The odd thing is Sharukh Khan was in Northern California for location shooting of his film only a few weeks ago. And he is a frequent visitor to US. Yet his name shows up in a databse! Must be galling for all his portrayals of US in his films since mid-90s. He ends up with atleast one film set in US every year from 1996?

I am not sure what the deal is, but when I fly my preferred air line I have not been tagged for years (just after 911 I was tagged three times - every time just before boarding). But, when ever I miss a flight and am compelled to take another air line, I am invariably tagged. Something like 50-60% of the time.

Point being this should not be a big deal.

A Muslim name will come up more often I would think. But, very, very unfortunately that is a price for 911. If anyone has an alternative they should suggest it.

BTW, ABC news - yesterday - had a spread on this topic and stated that he was here in the US to promote his movie ............................. titled "My Name is Khan"!!! Supposedly it dealt with this very topic. Perhaps SK should use this incident to promote his movie.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 18 Aug 2009 06:18

The conclusion is simple that an average americans worldview is much broader than an average indians worldview

I somehow cannot agree with average american view is much broader than the average Indian worldview- At least in my short experience here. The average joe I meet has the view still that it is exotic has lot of poverty dieases etc have corrupt people religious conflicts etc. They read whatever is dished out in their media and govt policies. They have a superior attitude. They think they have a broad mind- I would like to see their view when the economy stays grounded for long time.

JMT-

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 18 Aug 2009 06:55

The SRK episode reminds me of a personal experience. It was about a year before 9/11. I had just had my PhD, and had been invited to give a talk at some uni down south in US. People were keen for me to move there from the job I had taken up in EUland that very year. So it was like a "bride-showing" affair. It was my first trip to US. And after a long flight, I had touched down at the movie-fame airport. I had almost come out of aisle, when a woman in uniform stopped me. She "stared" at me with a strange look (she came up to my shoulders) and said "Sir, you have been selected for a random check". I simply looked at her and burst out laughing, and asked "what is the random number generator that you used?". She was dumbstruck. "I dont know what you mean Sir". I acted surprised "you randomly selected me, but you do not know what a random number generator is?" Two guys in uniform were closely watching us from a distance. One of them called to the lady. And the other just nodded to me -"you can go on Sir, it is alright". I heard as I passed, the lady complaining "But I need at least two random checks". "Come on, take it easy - we all know what yer after. Be careful, otherwise one of these days..." was the reply from the male voice. I went out laughing all the while to myself.

Before leaving the airport and booking myself in for a short regional flight in a tiny plane in a virtual dust-storm, I had already decided not to take up the offer. I felt vindicated in my ultimately not accepting offers to do a PhD in the country during my undergrad days.

In spite of understanding and realizing instantly what the lady was really after, it saddened me infinitely - because she dared to do this only knowing from passport control - what nationality I belonged to. I have avoided going there ever after. If I ever go, it will be only when all Indians can go there as equals - with the same dignity as US citizens themselves.

I have avoided travelling, if necessary, or where I have felt my dignity would not be respected and refused invitations - because I have held on to my Indian passport, in spite of repeated promptings from many quarters to avail of naturalization. I have formally written my replies with choice words about what I think of "questioning" by embassy officials of certain countries before giving a visa and asked them to hold it on file for me - so that next time they will have a quick access to my response. I had to do it only twice - now they have it on file, and simply say - yes yes we know!

Masaru · Post by **Masaru** » 18 Aug 2009 07:41

AbhishekD wrote:What Sanku is saying is that it is your status that has changed as you move from India to America, not American vision or Indian vision.

Simple fact is that a elite Indian when he comes to America enters the working class in America and sees the America of a working class not the elite class. If you end up being someone kind Paris Hilton or even a uber rich multi-millionaire your knowledge of the world will be vastly enhanced, much more than a normal elite Indian.

An elite knows most about America and that too through Hollywood and somethings about Europe. He has no idea about South America, Africa or even China and Japan. An elite American will know about several regions of the world, their culture, tourism circuits and even tastes. It is not true to say that Americans dont know about the world outside. An average Indian does not know anything outside his village, town, district or atmost state. An average Indian is highly local and we elite like to call them "gawar", illetrate.

The conclusion is simple that an average americans worldview is much broader than an average indians worldview

Totally agree with Sanku and Abhishek. Have had many experience of so called Indian elite students not knowing the name/language of the state next their home state (in India), and mouthing any east/ sout-east asian as 'chinki' etc. etc. (wastage of band width to regurgitate all the nonsense), that I have serious doubts about the oft repeated higher Indian worldly knowledge compared to avg. American. Mind you, all these Indians tend to be from metropolis in India, have studied in named universities in India and in the US. Compared to them the avg. US undergrad (who has stepped out side the borders on an exchange program or two) seems much more open about knowing about other cultures of the world. Granted, not many in India have the wherewithal to go on a spring vacation during high school to Paris/Tokyo yet, but the attitude that 'we know what all there is to be known' leads to a closed mind where they aren't open to new ideas even when there is an opportunity.

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 18 Aug 2009 08:13

South Asian or Indian: Was larger identity at root of Shahrukh's flap?

WASHINGTON: Did Shahrukh Khan’s troubles with US customs and border personnel begin because he embraced a larger ''South Asian'' persona while forsaking his Indian identity?

Well, that’s what some ardent Indian nationalists would have you believe, even as it transpires that the Bollywood star’s engagements in Chicago and Houston were at a ''South Asian Carnival'' co-hosted by Indian and Pakistani promoters.

The ''carnival'' was a ticketed event ($ 25) that featured several other Bollywood stars, and included, besides the usual song and dance routines, a fashion parade and a wedding expo. In other words, not the typical Independence Day parade.

In promos of the event posted online featuring Shahrukh Khan and other stars (Saif Ali Khan, Kareena Kapoor, Katrina Kaif, Dia Mirza, Bipasha Basu) there is make no mention of celebrating India’s (or Pakistan’s) Independence Day. The event was sponsored by Indian and Pakistani companies, including Air India and Sahara One from the Indian side.

In imaginative accounts of the encounter between SRK and the US customs and border personnel widely distributed online, desi nationalists, who have long rankled at the ''South Asian'' appellation (which they believe is at the cost of a distinct Indian identity) surmised the following exchange, with the suggestion that the association with Pakistan is what got Khan into trouble with American authorities:

BCP: "So, Mr. Khan, what brings your here?"
SRK: "Well, I have been invited to deliver a speech at the South Asia Carnival."
BCP: "And what is that?"
SRK" "People of South Asia come together in peace and harmony to celebrate independence day."
BCP: "Ummm...South Asia. Is that a country?"
SRK: "Oh! no, no! South Asia, people of India, Pakistan, Afghanistan....(BCP cuts him off!)
BCP: "Pakistan, Afghanistan....Oh! Oh! Wait a minute here, dude! (turns around, whispers to the other BCP guy, "Man, this guy is ranting Pakistan, Afghanistan and something about being invited to deliver a speech, er... sermon..I dunno, but sure sounds creepy! No way, I am gonna get him in." (turns around)
BCP: "Sir, I will have to ask you to step aside. Please follow the red arrows on the floor to the door. Next!"

The author of this fictional exchange then goes on to ask, ''When did India's Independence Day celebrations take on a South Asian Carnival rubric? See, how easy it is for an Indian to lose his own identity and let others define it for him.'' He then goes on to present another fictional exchange that would have spared SRK the trouble.

BCP: "So, Mr. Khan, what brings you here?"
SRK: "I have been invited to deliver a speech at the India Independence Day celebration."
BCP: "India's Independence Day?"
SRK: "Yes, it is India's 63rd year of gaining Independence..."
BCP: "Yes, Gandhi...democracy. Great! Welcome to America. Have a nice day."

The imagined conversation revives the long simmering debate over the term ''South Asian,'' which some Indian hard-line nationalists believe is an entity devised by the west to dilute the Indian primacy. The term is common in the US, where it is adopted by many organizations founded and run by US-born Indians, such as the South Asian Bar Association (SABA), South Asian Journalists Association (SAJA) and South Asian Lesbian and Gay Association (SALGA). The nationalist expat constituency has long resented this broader rubric for the sub-continent and complained that it results in Indians needlessly having to shoulder the burden of Pakistan’s poor reputation.

Similarly, some Indians in the UK rankle at the term ''Brit-Asian'' used to describe all people from the sub-continent. They believe it unfairly clubs people from India with Pakistanis. The largely unspoken view is that they would prefer to maintain their distinct identity and a distance from the Pakistanis because of the terrorism-related troubles linked to them.

But Bollywood stars typically appear embrace the “South Asian” identity, partly for commercial reasons involving a large market in the region, including in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Afghanistan and Sri Lanka. Bollywood movies and live shows in US and Canada attract fans from all these countries.

However, the unknown author of the campaign against the term South Asia signs of with the following advice for Shahrukh Khan: ''Skip the South Asia epithet...Stick to identifying yourself (proudly) as an Indian citizen only...And America would have welcomed you with open arms.''

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 18 Aug 2009 08:37

Well, I'll throw my 2 paise in here.

The average American on a per capita basis is 30 times richer than the average Indian (3 * $13T/$1.3T) and that affords him an opportunity to gain knowledge, but in most cases leverage themselves in to greater personal debt with the availability of cheap credit. Most college educated Americans have contempt for non-white, non-Christian peoples. They are deemed as savages and Indians and India fall squarely in to this category along with being exotic. Its not deliberate, but academia and the media treats it as such as do most church denominations. BTW, more Americans go to church on a per capita basis than do Europeans and it also serves as a social gathering place.

The average American can learn about India, but they don't realize what impact India has on them, and academia has created a bad situation. Recently, sugar commodity prices have shot and all of the candy makers in the US are seeking Congressional help on prices. Why? India is the largest consumer of sugar world wide (Brazil 2nd but for fuel use) and a spotty monsoon has reduced yield in India this year, therefore prices have gone up. The result, the price of chocolates and candies will go up considerably. My 13-year old daughter in her social studies class had a section on India where they spent nearly a month on. The book was done by National Geographic and India was highlighted with cows, caste and sati. Real crap and when compared to the mass murder and theft committed by Europeans, it was treated most fairly.

What we have is a situation where Americans know a distorted India and Indians who don't know much about the US except for Hollywood.

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 18 Aug 2009 08:56

In US, I always used to get irritated every time TSA would cut open my luggage and examine it and put a tape on it 100% of the time on certain routes.
After talking to few desi TSA workers on these routes, I realized that my last name did not necessarily implied that I am Hindu and many suspects with my last name were generated by various databases that TSA runs. Now, I am not that irritated. Instead, I usually leave Gita or something in my luggage all the time.

I am not upset about SRK as it could have been flagged by many things including activities of dawood in Bollywood. Any concerned US intel person would be interested in him to get any info. they can get out.

However my position is 180 degrees of above for President Kalam's incident.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 18 Aug 2009 09:45

I find I get more thorough screening in Canada than in the US. I have actually thanked Canada security for doing a good job-don't mind it at all, if it keeps me and mine as well as the general public safe. Who are they going to do the 'random checks' on? Danes?

It is odd that I don't attract especial attention in US, maybe because I am in their data bases as a frequent visitor?? Maybe my overtly westernized mannerism and bearing?? I can't say it would bother me-they do what they have to do.

Are they really sophisticated enough to differentiate Hindu/Sikh names from Islamic ones?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 18 Aug 2009 12:14

SRK when interviewed had the perfect answer,why such a check when he had a valid visa from the US embassy,the most difficult visa to get,had visited the US many times before,etc.etc.It was deliberate harassment,no way that it was unintentional.I've even experiencd some racist treatment from coloured British Airways airline staff when checking in at the Bus. class counter.They probably have a chip on the shoulder and resent Indians travelling Club class."Bouncers from the Caribbean" can be found in some UK high street stores too.Don't ever enter a BHS store.I did it for the first (and last) time and had a racist encounter with such a "bouncer".Let's face it,there is a general resentment in some countries and in some ethnic groups that Indians are asserting themselves internationally.For the last few centuries,we were looked down upon as slaves,running tea and sugar plantations around the world,bowing and scraping to our white masters.This is still prevalent in OZ,which until a few decades ago,had a "whites only" immigration policy.

Let more of these insults happen.It is only then will Indians get enraged and resort to counter attack and teach these racists a signal lifelong lesson.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 18 Aug 2009 13:18

I have to say I have faced more screening from security at Indian airports than at US airports. I wonder if the actor had recently visited Pakistan or some such location that set off a flag.

Raju · Post by **Raju** » 18 Aug 2009 16:19

We need to raise special immigration group to deal only with american immigrants. Harass them exactly in the same way they harass us.

Make them park their plane in the remotest corner of the airport. park the bus ferrying them to the terminal atleast 300 metres away from the plane. Check their baggage and throw out each and every item of clothing and then ask them to rearrange it as per their need, give them 3 minutes to do it.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Aug 2009 16:53

Sumeet wrote:South Asian or Indian: Was larger identity at root of Shahrukh's flap?

Valid point

South Asian Carnival
http://www.southasiancarnival.com/about.php

About Farhath - Founder of South Asian CarnivalFarhath Hussain

From humble beginnings in London, Farhath Hussain is now internationally recognised as the world’s number one promoter of Bollywood live events.

His unique blend of panache for pleasing the audience and providing wholesome entertainment for the whole family has meant he has the confidence and appreciation of the entire Bollywood fan base outside of India

Initially with a few well know stars, Farhath made his initial foray in 1986. The response to the initial show was so unexpected, this set the foundations for his company.

The public, which had largely gone uncatered for finally received what they had wanted and it was a public only too happy to pay for it.

With his headquarters in London, UK, he is the leading Asian promoter for UK, Europe, USA and Canada with over 500 shows under his belt.

Question is - what happens to the money this chap earns - he is a UKstani. But his antecedents?

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 18 Aug 2009 17:02

Gerald Celente on King World News ( WE ARE HEADING TOWARDS WAR ) 14 Aug 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23fdvk3_NxQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20yCg40ObVs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tay9r5FV9Dk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHHIW2zw334

After Armageddon , its now Obamageddon ...

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 18 Aug 2009 18:26

shiv wrote:Question is - what happens to the money this chap earns - he is a UKstani. But his antecedents?

The point is Bollywood has become a money-minter for Pakistani Extremist Groups.

Dawood finances Indian Films and gets a cut
All Bollywood films are pirated by Pakistanis and they land in UAE, Europe, Central Asia and even in India. So they earn the money.
Farhath Hussain is probably a British passport holder of Pakistani descent.
Almost all Bollywood Party organizers in Germany are of Pakistani origin. (This I know from personal experience)

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 18 Aug 2009 19:11

About school and India. The Unikilland is still enamored with Egypt. My 10yr had a study about civilizations, and the standard ones were studied first - Sumerian, Egyptian, Roman-Greco, Chinese. They ran out of time so they had an abridged version of Indian civlization. Just simple standard stuff.

AnimeshP · Post by **AnimeshP** » 18 Aug 2009 19:23

For all the heartburn jingoes are going through here about the SRK incident ... here's what the man himself has to say ...

We have a saying in my native village ... "Sau Sau joote khayen, phirbi tamasha ghus ke dekhan jaayen" (Even after getting beaten with shoes we are eager to go back to the same place) ...

Shah Rukh to go to US if work demands

Bollywood superstar Shah Rukh Khan, who returned from the US on Tuesday after an "ordeal" at the immigration at Newark airport, described the incident as "no big deal" and said he will go there again if work demands.

Khan, 43, said that he did not expect any special treatment because of his celebrity status but found his detention and questioning at the airport in New Jersey "strange and irrelevant".

"I'm not angry about the incident but it was embarrassing. The questions asked by the authorities were strange and irrelevant," Khan said during a press conference at his home 'Mannat' in Bandra.

The actor, who had earlier told fans that he did not feel like stepping again on American soil, said that he will visit the country if work required him to do so.

"I will go to the US when work demands but I will limit my travels. I have no complaints against the system but I wish it could be more streamlined and less cumbersome," added Khan.

The actor, who had gone to the US to participate in Independence Day functions in Houston and Chicago, said basic security procedures like finger print and retina scan were not followed while he was being questioned after his name popped up at the immigration counter.

"I don't think its a big deal and I don't think I need to be treated specially. I am nobody. I am sure that people go through worse," Khan said about the incident, which drew angry reaction from his fans.

Seeking to downplay the episode, Khan said, "You have to follow the rules. I have no intention of questioning that...I am not seeking any apology from the US. I have no bitter feelings."

"The security of any country is important but caste {I wasn't aware that the TSA were profiling Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas or dalits} , religion or race shouldn't come in the way of security measures. Before being a star, actor, famous icon, which I don't believe in, I think am a normal guy," said Khan adding that he was lucky to have friends, who helped him through.

The actor said what happened to him was nothing compared to the treatment meted out to former President A P J Abdul Kalam at Delhi airport by staff of an American Airlines before his flight to the US.

"What happened to Kalam was atrocious as he is a national leader. What happened with me is nothing in comparison to that," he said.

The actor also dismissed suggestions that his detention was a "drama" to garner publicity for his upcoming movie 'My Name is Khan'.

"Those who say that I did all this to gain publicity for my film have a cheap mentality. I will never resort to something like that. I don't want to be pompous but I think Shah Rukh Khan does not need publicity," the actor said.

When questioned about Samajwadi Party leader Amar Singh's allegations that Khan had blown the matter out of proportion, the actor said, "But Amar Singhji is ill. He is not in the country. I pray that he recovers soon with a healthy body and strong mind. What should I say on that."

Asked about Information and Broadcasting Minister Ambika Soni's suggestion that there should be a tit-for-tat policy, the actor, known for his tongue-in-cheek remarks, said, "I am being serious. If it is a tit-for-tat policy then I would like to frisk Angelina Jolie and Megan Fox whenever they are visiting India because it has happened to me."

Commenting on Salman Khan's statement that "security checks were no big deal", Shah Rukh said, "What Salman said came from his own experience and he is right in his own way but it happened to me for the first time, so it was a little strange to me. May be I will get used to it."

The actor, popularly known as King Khan, said that he did not expect the issue to get blown up so much.

"I didn't expect this issue to get blown up so much. 99 per cent of the times that I've been to US such checks have happened with me but at the security department. This is the first time that it has happened to me at the immigration department," Khan said.

The actor said that he was overwhelmed by the support that he received after the incident.

"I am overwhelmed by the support that has come for me and it indicates that these problems are happening around the world," Khan said

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Aug 2009 20:03

RajeshA wrote: [*]Farhath Hussain is probably a British passport holder of Pakistani descent.

I need more info on this - if he is - he needs to be exposed. The "South Asia" program in the US is a dead giveaway. And the Indian who attended the suckers who might well be paying for future Mumbai style attacks.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 18 Aug 2009 20:13

^^^Salem 'nails' UK's Bollywood biggie
22 December 2005,

MUMBAI: The underworld-Bollywood connection refuses to go away. Gangster Abu Salem's interrogators from the Anti-Terrorist Squad (ATS) say one of the leading organisers of Bollywood shows across the globe, Farhath Hussain, helped Salem set up a base in the United States and Salem, in return, forced top Bollywood stars to participate in shows organised by Hussain abroad.

Only recently, police had said they were not necessarily looking to probe the gangland-film industry nexus, but the new revelations, made by Salem apparently while responding to questions about Andheri-based Pradeep Jain's murder case, may lead to a fresh probe.

"Salem was indebted to Hussain, who helped him establish a base in the US in 2000 with wife Sumaira and son Aamir. Salem thanked him by getting film-stars for his shows in the US, UK and Canada," an officer from the ATS who did not wish to be named said.

The film-stars charged little or nothing for these shows, the officer said.

Sources said that Hussain, currently based in Birmingham, UK, has organised several Bollywood nites in the US, UK and Canada in the last few years. Tickets for these shows, which have invariably drawn crowds in excess of 50,000, were sold for anything between 50 to 100 dollars.

arun · Post by **arun** » 18 Aug 2009 20:16

X Posted.

Excerpt devoted to broader issues in Indo-US relations from an article on EUMA by former Foreign Secretary Kanwal Sibal :

Monday, August 17, 2009 9:18:00 PM

Strategic blunder?

Kanwal Sibal / DNA

The controversy over the End Use Monitoring Agreement (EUMA) reflects the political difficulty in establishing “strategic ties” with the US.

Many countries are now our strategic partners but what it means in practical terms remains undefined. It implies that India and our partners have long-term common interests which our respective policies will promote to mutual advantage on a sustained basis.

In reality, either manifest differences of policies and interests exist between us and our declared strategic partners, or on issues of critical importance mutual support is not extended because of a reluctance to take a clear position as other interests have to be balanced.

How is US arms aid to Pakistan, which bolsters our strategic enemy, compatible with an India-US strategic partnership? How is its position on Kashmir consistent with it? Instead of recognising the democratic success of recent elections in Kashmir, US secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, during her visit, made a bow to separatist sentiments by advocating a solution that takes into account “the feelings of the Kashmiri people”.

Despite claiming that the fight against terror is collective and terrorism cannot be differentiated, Clinton focused on the al Qaeda and the Taliban and avoided identifying the jihadi groups targeting India.

She tried to please India by making general statements on terrorism and not displease Pakistan by going into specifics. Why should not the US choose, in the strategic perspective, democratic, pluralist, secular, law abiding India over a failing state like Pakistan reeling under religious extremism and terrorism, with links with state agencies.

With the US the relationship cannot be one of equals because of its overwhelming power; it cannot be unequal either as that would be politically unacceptable.

Much can be gained by a rising power like India from building strong ties with the US, which is the world’s foremost power, its largest market and the most advanced country technologically.

But the price is high as the US strategy is to fit rising countries into the global system designed and dominated by it. This is projected as countries bearing their share of global responsibilities, of becoming responsible stakeholders in the existing arrangements.

This explains our dilemma: we want to be close to the US and yet want to keep a distance. We are flattered by US overtures, but feel unsure about the extent of our response. ………………

DNA

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Aug 2009 20:19

Well he's Indian
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1040905/a ... 713996.asp

Originally from Hyderabad, Farhath used to go to India 12 times a year but has cut that down to two trips a year. “Bollywood is like a family, everyone knows everyone else and I’m part of the family,” he explains.
Farhath, who lives in a luxurious house in Essex and drives a Mercedes, acknowledges that “the industry has been good to me”. The long-term future of Bollywood in Britain seems assured because today, the films draw even British-born youngsters. And Indians remain desperate to meet the stars.
According to Farhath, “Anyone who has bought a VIP ticket for £100 says, ‘Now I must meet Shah Rukh.’ I tell them, ‘Look, I have sold 6,000 VIP tickets. They can’t all meet Shah Rukh’.”

But his US clientele may be Paki

http://pakpassion.net/ppforum/archive/i ... 30181.html

Amongst actors, Farhath says SRK, Hrithik Roshan, Abhishek Bachchan and Aishwarya Rai have the charisma to ensure a full house, while Lata Mangeshkar, A.R. Rahman, Adnan Sami and Himesh Reshammiya are the crowd pullers on the music front. What about the paying public? Which nationality constitutes the maximum to make an event a success? “Pakistanis mainly. Of course, Indians love to see their stars in flesh and blood, but Pakistanis are bigger fans of Bollywood than anyone else,” Farhath smiles.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 18 Aug 2009 20:54

RajeshA wrote:
shiv wrote:Question is - what happens to the money this chap earns - he is a UKstani. But his antecedents?
The point is Bollywood has become a money-minter for Pakistani Extremist Groups.

Dawood finances Indian Films and gets a cut

All Bollywood films are pirated by Pakistanis and they land in UAE, Europe, Central Asia and even in India. So they earn the money.

Farhath Hussain is probably a British passport holder of Pakistani descent.

Almost all Bollywood Party organizers in Germany are of Pakistani origin. (This I know from personal experience)

Biggest shows in US are controlled by Mehta Brothers. But there are other small time outfits run by Pakistanis in US.

This needs to be controlled now.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 18 Aug 2009 21:00

shiv wrote:Well he's Indian
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1040905/a ... 713996.asp
Originally from Hyderabad, Farhath used to go to India 12 times a year but has cut that down to two trips a year. “Bollywood is like a family, everyone knows everyone else and I’m part of the family,” he explains.
Farhath, who lives in a luxurious house in Essex and drives a Mercedes, acknowledges that “the industry has been good to me”. The long-term future of Bollywood in Britain seems assured because today, the films draw even British-born youngsters. And Indians remain desperate to meet the stars.
According to Farhath, “Anyone who has bought a VIP ticket for £100 says, ‘Now I must meet Shah Rukh.’ I tell them, ‘Look, I have sold 6,000 VIP tickets. They can’t all meet Shah Rukh’.”
But his US clientele may be Paki

Lot of Pakis in US say that they are from Hyderabad.
There are some families from Hyderabad who have migrated to Pakistan earlier and claim that they know Telugu.

These Pakis will claim they are always from India

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 18 Aug 2009 21:11

Pakis are big on Bollywood bandwagon in the US. Not having film industry, or music, or any other cultural thing from their own country, they are hungry for Bollywood like there is no tomorrow. Foolish Indians gladly go the shows, Radio stations, Film theaters of these Pakis. But Pakis never forget their core agenda--all these events are called "South Asian". This term works wonders: Indians don't seem to care that they are being made into a pygmy, Pakis are happy that they don't have to fess up to being Pakis and get to claim Indian cultural products under the rubric of this sorry term of "South Asian".

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 18 Aug 2009 22:21

Surinder,

Very very valid point. You know whats surprising, when you explain exactly what you have said to such Indians they will be like so what it is actually true that they are same people, same culture etc as us. That is what term South Asia reflects. Hence the use of it.

Unfortunately, people don't realize the only thing common between us and them are genes, some language commonality {pakis & North Indians] and nothing more.

When you press them further to comprehend the distinction, they will just come up with a blanket statement that you are just like Hamid Gul or Lashkar etc. Their concept of Lashkar or Hamid Gul or ISI is that they are against India-Pakistan friendship and hence they cause trouble in India and consequently are not good people. So if within our border if someone berates the idea of Indo-Pak friendship they immediately feel the impulse to do equal equal.

And then they say look how pakistani public is against taliban. They are just like us.

Naive, and foolishly peacenik nature [just as the case was with Arjuna] is so deeply ingrained in us that little can be accomplished without doing away or at least diluting it significantly so that people can see some light when sun shines bright.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 18 Aug 2009 23:18

I guess it goes both ways. ...
It was at the same Liberty Int'al Airport, Newark, where SRK's liberty was dashed for a while. We were boarding Jet Airways flight to Delhi - Smart looking twenty something Jet Air boys and gals were greeting us onboard. But, wait, mostly the white skinned ones were singled out
and asked to step aside for a "Random Search". Their bags, shoes, socks, laptops and what not were searched thoroughly, and then there was a security guy with a huge german shepherd sniffing them out. Felt a bit sorry for the foreigners about to visit India, but deep down felt a bit satisfied for all the "random searches" we had to go through.

surinder · Post by **surinder** » 18 Aug 2009 23:24

Sumeet,
When I attempt to explain to my Indian friends this idea, I get blank stares. They usually tell me I am filled with hatred & unnecessarily paranoid. I have stopped explaining.

But you know one thing does get their goat, I discovered accidently. Tell them about how Paki boys are targetting Hindu/Sikh girls in UK (operation K2K, which stands for "Kaur To Khan"). You can see their foreheads sweating.

The only cure for those who love Pakis is a good dose of Pakis.

kshirin · Post by **kshirin** » 18 Aug 2009 23:33

[quote="Manny"][quote="karthik"]All this is good to read theoretically but if you go to the US, they cant even pronounce your name let alone know about your philosophy, they are really quite ignorant about other cultures. Its very far fetched to imagine that they would lean towards the east anytime soon.[/quote]

I always wondered why India is India and America is America. Aren't Indians as intelligent as Americans are? Why then can't India solve its own problems. The book "Democracy in America" by Toquville pretty much explains the cultural differences which have inhibited India from taking care of itself.

Let me give you a vivid example. When I came to America I first lived in Pennsylvania. I noticed that the local news is watched more often than national or International news. (Local news = 1 hr, National news = 30min) Including in the local newspapers. There was hardly anything about national level news let alone international affairs. and I came to a logical conclusion that Americans are not worldly. They are too parochial and ignorant about others around the world. Indians on the other hand are generally more knowledgeable about the world (Atleast the ones who have been to school/colleges)

It took me two years to realize, that it is true. My initial impression was right. Americans are not worldly. But then it was an epiphany for me that what I thought was a weakness is actually the strength of America and the weakness of India, People here care more about their immediate neighborhood and local affairs first than something that may happen 15000 miles away where these folks have hardly any influence. While a BBC Radio listening Indian may argue and pontificate about the morality of What Israel is doing in Palestine and what not, is most likely clueless about the crime rate in his own neighborhood. He would not be vested in any local affirs like what is happening around his immediate locale. Then I thought, IF you cannot even take care of yourself and your immediate neighbor around you WTF are you pontificating about the immorality of conflicts around the world and taking positions on issue where you freak have no influence of any kind! WTF!

See. What we perceive as weakness of Americans may indeed be their strength.

[/quote]

I agree. It is enormously frustrating to realise that no one will lift their finger to improve their own communities, while those who do are endlessly criticised for slow/no progress, by those sitting on their fattening areas. The concept of caring for your immediate surroundings, poverty, failing municipal services etc. has to be instilled in us quickly, because our environemnt is tanking and values are disappearing.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Aug 2009 23:59

X-posted from Indian Movies thread... page 13.

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X-posted...

RajeshA wrote:Film piracy funding terror: US thinktank by S Balakrishnan: Times of India

MUMBAI: The leading US thinktank, Rand Corporation, has confirmed what Indian intelligence agencies have been maintaining all along— Dawood Ibrahim has graduated to terrorism and is siphoning off millions of dollars earned from film
piracy, drug-running and other crimes to finance his operations.
Identifying Al-Mansoor and Sadaf brands belonging to Dawood, the report says he has acquired extraordinary market power in the distribution of pirated films throughout the region. The report says the D-Company has got control of Sadaf Trading Company based in Karachi, and thus allowing it to manage distribution network in Pakistan and also acquiring the infrastructure to manufacture pirate VHS tapes and VCDs for sale.
Abstract of Original Rand Corporation Report (purchaseable)
Film Piracy, Organized Crime, and Terrorism
By: Gregory F. Treverton, Carl Matthies, Karla J. Cunningham, Jeremiah Goulka, Greg Ridgeway, Anny Wong

Indian Government should put a lot more stress on coming down on these piraters. Now Bollywood has instead of becoming an engine of growth for the Indian Economy become a source of financing for terrorism and organized crime, and that too for every film produced in Bollywood.

I am not sure how far one can confront this problem in Pakistan itself, but there is no reason, why pirated Bollywood films should be available in other markets like USA, UK, Europe, UAE or elsewhere. India should pressure the local authorities to put an end to this piracy. USA can help in this endeavor, as it already has the clout and a process in these countries. Money made from this piracy also supports Al Qaida's activities.

Secondly, in every copyright message, the producers should include, that buying pirate copies may be supporting terrorism.

i was always unsure about the Al Mansoor operation. It was king of VHS tapes in the 80s-thru 90s.

One of these days the ISI will overreach and funds its strikes using Bollywood earnings and bring the industry down. All the Khans can stew in the juices.
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Maybe the recent frisking was related to this RAND report. The message getting lost in the assumed innocence.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 19 Aug 2009 00:46

Hope he is not using this Hyderabad to cover up for the other Hyderabad in TSP.